November 21, 2018, 09:58:33 AM

Author Topic: DCL - kidding ourselves  (Read 33125 times)

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September 18, 2018, 10:03:57 PM
Reply #510
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brap2

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I don't think dropping Sigurdsson deeper is going to do anything. We need someone who gets on the ball a lot and passes it forward. From what I've seen for club and country, Sigurdsson isn't aggressive enough at seeking the ball and his quality as a passer is questionable at best. We need an entirely different sort of player in that area. We can't expect him to do something he's never done before.

At some point, Silva needs to consider Dowell as a starter, just to see what he can offer at this level. He showed some serious promise as an open play passer in the Championship last season and he's pretty good from dead ball situations, too.

On the topic of Calvert-Lewin... he should have had the second half of last season to play regularly and develop since we had absolutely nothing to play for. We never should have bothered signing Tosun.

Since we didn't do that then, I think we need to have a serious look now. He's clearly not a winger. Play him in his natural position and see what he has to offer at this level, especially with Richarlison and Walcott flanking him.

His ability on the ball and technique is genuinely very, very good though. Surely we can force him into getting on the ball more...

My feeling is try him in CM and force him on to the ball. Gylfi - every time Gana has the ball, run over to him and take it.

 In the 10 he can hide, and naturally does so because he hasn’t got the ability to create separation between him and a defender, but if he gets a bit of room that someone else makes him he can hit a shot (world class striker of the ball imo). When he does get pressed he drops to the ground and hopes for a free kick.

He can execute almost anything I think, but he just doesn’t do enough of it because he spends the whole game hiding like a Milford Man.

Dowell is due a chance at some point, CM or 10 I really don’t mind, but I would like to see it yes.

DCL couldn’t agree more.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.


September 18, 2018, 10:08:34 PM
Reply #511
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kramer0


His ability on the ball and technique is genuinely very, very good though. Surely we can force him into getting on the ball more...

My feeling is try him in CM and force him on to the ball. Gylfi - every time Gana has the ball, run over to him and take it.

 In the 10 he can hide, and naturally does so because he hasn’t got the ability to create separation between him and a defender, but if he gets a bit of room that someone else makes him he can hit a shot (world class striker of the ball imo). When he does get pressed he drops to the ground and hopes for a free kick.

He can execute almost anything I think, but he just doesn’t do enough of it because he spends the whole game hiding like a Milford Man.

I don't think it's impossible but my default expectation is that a 29 year old will not learn an entirely new way of playing a game he's already played for so long.

September 18, 2018, 10:37:42 PM
Reply #512
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brap2

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I don't think it's impossible but my default expectation is that a 29 year old will not learn an entirely new way of playing a game he's already played for so long.

Yeah I get it, I get it.

Find the whole thing extremely frustrating because it does feel like having a Ferrari with no steering wheel sat in the driveway.

Terrible waste of money that we didn’t need to do, still not sure who was buying who out of kenwright, moshiri, Walsh and Koeman at that time. I just know for some reason the remit was ‘big wages and nearly 30’.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.


September 18, 2018, 10:47:07 PM
Reply #513
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Lxxx


I don't think it's impossible but my default expectation is that a 29 year old will not learn an entirely new way of playing a game he's already played for so long.

Players with intelligence adapt their game continuously as they age.

I don't see any reason Sig can't do what Schneiderlin does and more. Tell Gana to play with a bit more discipline and at the very least we get an extra option going forwards, as evidenced within minutes on Sunday. We've got to find a home for Sig and playing where he does now doesn't offer what it should.

September 18, 2018, 10:48:48 PM
Reply #514
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Evertonian in NC


I don't think dropping Sigurdsson deeper is going to do anything. We need someone who gets on the ball a lot and passes it forward. From what I've seen for club and country, Sigurdsson isn't aggressive enough at seeking the ball and his quality as a passer is questionable at best. We need an entirely different sort of player in that area. We can't expect him to do something he's never done before.

At some point, Silva needs to consider Dowell as a starter, just to see what he can offer at this level. He showed some serious promise as an open play passer in the Championship last season and he's pretty good from dead ball situations, too.

On the topic of Calvert-Lewin... he should have had the second half of last season to play regularly and develop since we had absolutely nothing to play for. We never should have bothered signing Tosun.

Since we didn't do that then, I think we need to have a serious look now. He's clearly not a winger. Play him in his natural position and see what he can do, especially with Richarlison and Walcott flanking him.

I just don't see it with Dowell, similar to how you don't see it with Siggy.  But if dropping him deeper beside Gana doesn't produce results by Christmas, I'd be glad to give Dowell a run.  You can't bang your head into a brick wall forever.

If we are to try a #10, I think our most natural fit is the "angry terrier" Bernard, though.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

September 18, 2018, 10:57:56 PM
Reply #515
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TheRam

NSNO Subscriber
Yeah I get it, I get it.

Find the whole thing extremely frustrating because it does feel like having a Ferrari with no steering wheel sat in the driveway.

Terrible waste of money that we didn’t need to do, still not sure who was buying who out of kenwright, moshiri, Walsh and Koeman at that time. I just know for some reason the remit was ‘big wages and nearly 30’.

Koeman signing all day that

He was lazy in the market and just saturated the squad with bog standard premiere league players because he didn’t know anything else.

For all the stick Walsh gets he could still pick you up a gem (Lookman, Henry O) and be creative in the market with signings like Sandro.

Koeman is the one to blame for signings like Bolasie, Williams, Sigurdsson, Morgan. He has form for doing this sort of thing at other clubs and it can take years to recover from it.

I said at the time Sigurdsson is a signing we shouldn’t be making at all but a lot of us we’re stoned under a cloud of making everyone’s head fall off because we’re spending money and went along with it.

25mil at most we should’ve spent on him, even then I would’ve been sceptical.

‘It’s not your money so why are you bothered how much he costs’ people said. Well now we have a player who cost us 45mil who doesn’t fit into the system, but will no doubt get shoehorned in somewhere because he’s our record signing.


September 18, 2018, 11:00:28 PM
Reply #516
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brap2

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We've got to find a home for Sig and playing where he does now doesn't offer what it should.

China, UAE maybe
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

September 18, 2018, 11:30:14 PM
Reply #517
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kramer0


I just don't see it with Dowell, similar to how you don't see it with Siggy.

Not similar. Sigurdsson has played enough football for Everton to make a reasonable judgment. Dowell, not so much.

Fair enough if you don't rate him but it's not similar.

Quote
But if dropping him deeper beside Gana doesn't produce results by Christmas, I'd be glad to give Dowell a run.  You can't bang your head into a brick wall forever.

Until Christmas is going to be a lot of head banging.

Players with intelligence adapt their game continuously as they age.

I think this is one of the issues for me -- I don't see Sigurdsson as being all that intelligent of a player.

25mil at most we should’ve spent on him, even then I would’ve been sceptical.

‘It’s not your money so why are you bothered how much he costs’ people said. Well now we have a player who cost us 45mil who doesn’t fit into the system, but will no doubt get shoehorned in somewhere because he’s our record signing.

I would have rather we burned £25m than made the deal we made.

September 19, 2018, 12:10:13 AM
Reply #518
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KoemansNumberTens


Koeman signing all day that

He was lazy in the market and just saturated the squad with bog standard premiere league players because he didn’t know anything else.

For all the stick Walsh gets he could still pick you up a gem (Lookman, Henry O) and be creative in the market with signings like Sandro.

Koeman is the one to blame for signings like Bolasie, Williams, Sigurdsson, Morgan. He has form for doing this sort of thing at other clubs and it can take years to recover from it.

I said at the time Sigurdsson is a signing we shouldn’t be making at all but a lot of us we’re stoned under a cloud of making everyone’s head fall off because we’re spending money and went along with it.

25mil at most we should’ve spent on him, even then I would’ve been sceptical.

‘It’s not your money so why are you bothered how much he costs’ people said. Well now we have a player who cost us 45mil who doesn’t fit into the system, but will no doubt get shoehorned in somewhere because he’s our record signing.

Think koeman thought he’d found his perfect job. Load of big money signings from lesser sides without much thought. We’d finish 7th comfortably for minimum work and he’d take the 8m a year until something better came up.

He genuinely didn’t give a fuck about balance, squad building or even value.

September 19, 2018, 12:14:18 AM
Reply #519
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KoemansNumberTens


Sigurdsson is as bad a signing as is possible. Obviously there’s been much bigger flops but you could at least see the potential of them moves. We got exactly what his entire career suggested we would. He wasn’t suitable, good enough or reasonable value at the point of purchase. Real mismanagement.

September 19, 2018, 12:41:32 AM
Reply #520
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Evertonian in NC


Not similar. Sigurdsson has played enough football for Everton to make a reasonable judgment. Dowell, not so much.

Fair enough if you don't rate him but it's not similar.

Until Christmas is going to be a lot of head banging.

I think this is one of the issues for me -- I don't see Sigurdsson as being all that intelligent of a player.

I would have rather we burned £25m than made the deal we made.

I get what you're saying, I really do.  And I respect what you say, which gives me heavy pause on Siggy, who I think has mostly suffered the weight of expectations and the difficulty settling into his role amidst all the personnel and drastic stylistic shifts.  That's why I say "until Christmas" - I think that is a fair run, given how much we have invested and how much change there has been overall.  You still have plenty of time to work with Gomes/Dowell afterwards, and can even try those two in Cup play if you like.

With Dowell, I just don't think he's fast or quick (maybe both, I have trouble putting my finger on which) to cut it at the Premiership level.  I think his ceiling is "squad player."  Readily admit I could easily be wrong, that is just my impression from what I have seen, which admittedly hasn't been that much (but does include some U20/21/23, forget which, international play).

The only sharp point of departure is football intelligence, which I think Siggy has in spades. I don't think he could have led Iceland as far as he did internationally without it, and I still see it in bursts with us.  What I see more with him at Everton is more uncertainty, which I put down to confidence/change issues.  Again, he can't have unlimited time to "get over it" but this is a transition season, and I think it's worth a run of games to really, really try.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

September 19, 2018, 01:59:15 AM
Reply #521
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eyesalwaysblue


Sigurdsson is as bad a signing as is possible. Obviously there’s been much bigger flops but you could at least see the potential of them moves. We got exactly what his entire career suggested we would. He wasn’t suitable, good enough or reasonable value at the point of purchase. Real mismanagement.
Awful signing , understood the Sandro gamble at the money but Sigurdsson was nuts.
I still despise Clive Thomas..

September 19, 2018, 06:30:50 AM
Reply #522
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Normm


With Dowell, I just don't think he's fast or quick (maybe both, I have trouble putting my finger on which) to cut it at the Premiership level.  I think his ceiling is "squad player."  Readily admit I could easily be wrong, that is just my impression from what I have seen, which admittedly hasn't been that much (but does include some U20/21/23, forget which, international play).

He's very talented but seems to lack grit and determination - but I would put that down to his age and inexperience. He needs to show more fighting spirit and not allow himself to be pushed off the ball so easily - even by members of his own team!
I think he could be far better than just a squad player, imo.

DCL has played best as CF. I can't understand why he keeps being placed out wide.

September 19, 2018, 07:02:28 PM
Reply #523
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bigmanbob


So we've moved on from Tosun to Sigurdsson now, wow, boss us

September 19, 2018, 07:05:11 PM
Reply #524
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brap2

NSNO Subscriber
So we've moved on from Tosun to Sigurdsson now, wow, boss us

Shame we can’t say the same about them two
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.