November 22, 2017, 01:43:44 AM

Poll

Who would you like in charge?

David Unsworth
Rafa Benitez
Thomas Tuchel
Carlo Ancelotti
David Moyes
Eddie Howe
Sam Allardyce
Marco Silva
Roberto Mancini
Mikel Arteta
Walter Mazzarri
Mark Hughes
Chris Coleman
Duncan Ferguson
Koeman to remain in charge
AN Other
Manuel Pellegrini
Sean Dyche
Diego Simeone

Author Topic: Who should we go for?  (Read 49615 times)

BlueBeagle, hamshank33, Sir Stealth, blueToffee, therealdunc, Bluedylan and 16 Guests are viewing this topic.

October 24, 2017, 10:53:13 PM
Reply #390
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Cozzie


Would absolutely love Tuchel here.

deCoubertin

October 24, 2017, 10:54:18 PM
Reply #391
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Rhys


Maybe I'm being naive but I really don't blame Walsh. I think had he had a free reign we'd have sign a striker out of left field. I think the problem was the list of koemans approved targets was quite short and if they don't want to play for us there's not much Walsh can do

I like how we are signing young players and I like how we've done with our cheaper punts (sandro will still prove to be a very good player)
It's vital we get someone who wants to work more closely with Walsh next time though. Think we got stuck between the 2 systems where koeman had a little too much say but then not quite enough to take full responsibility. Surely the manager should tslk about which attributes he needs and the DOF should compile the list?

I think that last part is the key point with whether Koeman was dealt a bad hand or how it works moving forward. The logic should be that Koeman went to Walsh saying I want a creative player who creates xxx number of chances a game, xxx goals/assists over a season, covers xxx amount of distance or whatever they key areas he wants from them. Then Walsh should come back going we have these players we think fit the bill, lets have a look at them and decide who the one we want is.

Whereas I think it's more likely Koeman went saying I want Giroud, I want Sigurdsson and I want Klaassen etc. And I think it was also an issue with Walsh never having done the role before. I think a more experienced DoF might well have pushed back on Koeman when the price for Sigurdsson went as high as it did. When the figures got near 50m you would want the DoF saying we arent sure thats good value, but we have these alternatives who fit the same criteria as you are looking for.

All speculation that that is what happened but the way koeman spoke about certain players it came across that he was focussed on those individuals rather than what he was looking for out of them. Also might be a reason the club stick with Walsh but might be easier to outline who does what with a manager coming in with a DoF in place unlike last time.

October 24, 2017, 11:02:45 PM
Reply #392
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KoemansNumberTens


I think that last part is the key point with whether Koeman was dealt a bad hand or how it works moving forward. The logic should be that Koeman went to Walsh saying I want a creative player who creates xxx number of chances a game, xxx goals/assists over a season, covers xxx amount of distance or whatever they key areas he wants from them. Then Walsh should come back going we have these players we think fit the bill, lets have a look at them and decide who the one we want is.

Whereas I think it's more likely Koeman went saying I want Giroud, I want Sigurdsson and I want Klaassen etc. And I think it was also an issue with Walsh never having done the role before. I think a more experienced DoF might well have pushed back on Koeman when the price for Sigurdsson went as high as it did. When the figures got near 50m you would want the DoF saying we arent sure thats good value, but we have these alternatives who fit the same criteria as you are looking for.

All speculation that that is what happened but the way koeman spoke about certain players it came across that he was focussed on those individuals rather than what he was looking for out of them. Also might be a reason the club stick with Walsh but might be easier to outline who does what with a manager coming in with a DoF in place unlike last time.

That's how I see it. That koeman was allowed to have very set ideas about who it wanted. The problems were 2 fold. His picks weren't quite good enough and we got bent over on the price because he would deviate. I don't think we negotiated very well on any of our big deals. Even Keane and Pickford who could both prove bargains weren't at the point of purchase and should have been as we were in a strong position both times


October 24, 2017, 11:20:10 PM
Reply #393
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Ridge


Find it hard to use Barca as a comparison for numerous reasons. Your walking into a club that has everything, the best players, the most awards, it goes on. The people that have been employed have been ex superstars of the game that command instant respect and have been preparing for this for a number of years,  also, for a majority of the years they've only really been competing with 1 other team.

Unsworth is going into a team short of confidence in the bottom 3 of a fiercely competitive league with a squad with little to no balance. I do want him to succeed but I think walking into Barcelona's first team and ours are light years apart for any manager.

There's a bigger safety net, but I think you're pointing out the similarities.  ;)

Unsworth has been a manager of U23's for 3 years, they appointed managers who had served a shorter apprenticeship. I'm not saying it would make us Barcelona or we should replicate this or that one. I'm just pointing out they are prime example of a club that has promoted youth coaches and ex players , often when things aren't looking so rosy. Barca B team or Everton U23's, who's it more impressive to win league with? not a major competition, but can only do what's in front of you.

Unsworth may not work out, but the youth coach route is one that you can knock too hard, unless you're from the UK and even then there's managers like Howe at Bournemouth. Zidane at Real, Guardiola at Barcelona. There's been loads of coverage of Bundesliga doing this on an industrial scale.

Youth coaches are not afraid of reputations and price tags, they can often help transition several young players into key first team roles. They've worked with access to highest levels of data, techniques and tactics, but without the smoke. If you can manage a group of teenage millionaires, the first team is a walk in the park.

October 25, 2017, 12:04:08 AM
Reply #394
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MrWhite

NSNO Subscriber
Does he speak English?
Pretty much a given these days with younger Germans to be fair.

October 25, 2017, 12:05:25 AM
Reply #395
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MrWhite

NSNO Subscriber
Ask yourself, can you really see Moshiri going for Dyche.

We know he went all out for Koeman but that's the fan boy in him. Its a big game to him.
Im fine with that attitude from him as long as hes serious about winning that game.


October 25, 2017, 12:06:54 AM
Reply #396
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Ridge


I think that last part is the key point with whether Koeman was dealt a bad hand or how it works moving forward. The logic should be that Koeman went to Walsh saying I want a creative player who creates xxx number of chances a game, xxx goals/assists over a season, covers xxx amount of distance or whatever they key areas he wants from them. Then Walsh should come back going we have these players we think fit the bill, lets have a look at them and decide who the one we want is.

Whereas I think it's more likely Koeman went saying I want Giroud, I want Sigurdsson and I want Klaassen etc. And I think it was also an issue with Walsh never having done the role before. I think a more experienced DoF might well have pushed back on Koeman when the price for Sigurdsson went as high as it did. When the figures got near 50m you would want the DoF saying we arent sure thats good value, but we have these alternatives who fit the same criteria as you are looking for.

All speculation that that is what happened but the way koeman spoke about certain players it came across that he was focussed on those individuals rather than what he was looking for out of them. Also might be a reason the club stick with Walsh but might be easier to outline who does what with a manager coming in with a DoF in place unlike last time.

For me that is why Sigurdsson is Walsh's buy or above his authority. I think the lack of creativity comment from Koeman hinted it too.  Koeman had staff that recruited players at Southampton and actually I think transfer wise he probably had some input on Clasie, Martina, Stek. But I see him as adopting some players as his and rejecting ones he's not sure about.

I don't see him naming Forster, Mane, VVD, Tadic or Pelle, I think of him saying "ok" a lot. We spent enough, that he could get what he specifically wanted, he had his heart set on something else, he's not sure what, a better one.

I had a thought that this summer maybe Koeman wanted Klaassen and then wanted a number 10 and Walsh wanted Sigurdsson and a number 10 and we ended up not being able to get other potential targets we knew were available. But I think there is more needle because Barkley and his deal wasn't done, Niasse came back into things and Koeman probably wanted McCarthy and half a dozen others gone.

I don't look through the signings and see bad acquisitions, I think some will take time to settle and some big fees, but I wouldn't write off any as bad buys yet, half of them are young players who look talented. Pickford, Vlasic, Onyekuru, Sandro, all look seriously good bits of business. I think Koeman complaining and trying to defend his own neck has resulted in us looking less favourably on transfers.

We only sold a few first team players, yet made wholesale changes to team that didn't work. For me the squad is a much better one with much more potential and value, replacing Lukaku was never going to be easy and now we don't have to replace Barkley. We have several players to come back from injury, once we are out of europe we have an absolute embarrassment of riches compared to years back. There's probably some diamonds and some turds, but at least get polishing.

October 25, 2017, 12:14:16 AM
Reply #397
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Topper


A top manager coming in: the likes of Ancelotti, Tuchel etc with Unsworth learning his trade with the first team as their assistant before becoming manager if they move on the pastures new would be ideal for me to be honest.

As much as I love Unsworth I would like him to have a bit more experience within the first team before becoming permanent manager.  It just seems to me that a lot of caretaker managers that have little first team experience have got the boot recently after having a good start.  Monk , Sherwood, Shakespeare etc but at the end of the day you have to cut your teeth some time I guess and some have worked out for other clubs.


I just would like him to have a bit more experience and get back into the first team loop as I think he will do a good job down the line for us.

I just am afraid he will do well for the first 10 matches or so, get the job and then our season tails off, we cants attract better players in Jan because of our position and inexperienced manager and then fans are calling for his head come the end of the season and we become a sacking club which hasn't been our policy.

I know Unsy has the pride and passion for the club but I personally think the challenge might come a bit too soon for him as he has only been managing u23's for a couple of years and hasn't that big game experience yet with the first team, hence why I would love him to be the new managers number 2 but I guess they will probably want their own men to come in.  Although if we arent able to get that 'big name manager' in, I definitely would rather appoint Unsworth over the likes of Dyche or Allardyce.

Just my opinion and as we can see by the poll there are a lot of different names that people would be happy with, wouldn't football be boring if we all thought the same lol

October 25, 2017, 12:18:49 AM
Reply #398
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MrWhite

NSNO Subscriber
whoever takes over the team from Klopp
Hes not gone yet?!

On the other hand because he build a good relationship with his clubs fans hell likely get longer to figure it out.

October 25, 2017, 12:19:27 AM
Reply #399
Online

velimski


Tuchel for me.

October 25, 2017, 12:35:15 AM
Reply #400
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Rodenplav64


Tuchel for me.

Did he resign after a disagreement with the board over players ? Liked watching Dortmund but they may well have been like us without Aubamayang . He did give youngsters a chance though so who knows how they would have improved had he stayed .

October 25, 2017, 01:10:37 AM
Reply #401
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Ridge


As much as I love Unsworth I would like him to have a bit more experience within the first team before becoming permanent manager.  It just seems to me that a lot of caretaker managers that have little first team experience have got the boot recently after having a good start.  Monk , Sherwood, Shakespeare etc but at the end of the day you have to cut your teeth some time I guess and some have worked out for other clubs.

Monk went straight in with coaching experience. Shakespeare came in from assistant manager role. Sherwood was 4 years assistant manager, 1 year technical director, 6 months manager.

Unsworth has just focused on managing his team, he's not been working alongside the last guy and thinks he knows how to do it the same but a bit better. He's got his own way and he understands the reasoning, the objectives, the wisdom, from experience.

Unsworth has shown a high level of competency in the core roles of management. We have Walsh to identify targets, we have Elstone to worry about commercial objectives. He's there to pick team, motivate and develop and it's hard to find things to knock him with on those fronts until he loses his 100% win ratio from last year and a half(1 game, joke).

The players who have come into the first team and looked the most motivated have often been playing under Unsworth. Kenny, Davies, Lookman, Niasse, DCL. no questions about attitude or endeavour from any of them. I've listened to Unsworth because of my sympathy for Niasse, but to me he's always appeared a much better ambassador and more motivational for the club than Koeman ever did.

I can understand concerns about the learning gradient on tactical matters, but I think Koeman and others have shown their methods are relatively crude when it stops working, often managers who have achieved short term growth elsewhere.

All players will improve with new chance and suddenly instead of looking threadbare, we'll have u23s, experienced players, new signings, players returning from injury. A look at the squad with a fresh perspective starts making us look rather good again.

October 25, 2017, 02:14:51 PM
Reply #402
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Trowel


Mirror reporting Ancelloti is in talks with Chinese Super League team Guangzhou Evergrande.
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October 25, 2017, 02:29:18 PM
Reply #403
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Hawkandro


Did he resign after a disagreement with the board over players ? Liked watching Dortmund but they may well have been like us without Aubamayang . He did give youngsters a chance though so who knows how they would have improved had he stayed .

He left after the bomb attack on their coach. He felt that he didn't receive the support from the board IIRC.
Yes, we're being condescending. Yes, that means we're talking down to you.

October 25, 2017, 02:50:55 PM
Reply #404
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Paddockoldie


Mirror reporting Ancelloti is in talks with Chinese Super League team Guangzhou Evergrande.


I think Carlo's chasing the big pay day.. and who can blame him as he's been to the top. That's why I wouldn't want him. What's he got to chase with us? He's managed the top, top clubs so would also demand the budget, which we may not have. As for Tuchel. He's a gamble I feel but he does seem interested but he's also out of work.  For now I'd stick with Unsy and see what he can do.