January 17, 2018, 11:31:40 AM

Author Topic: [News]Watford deny Everton a Silva lining  (Read 19821 times)

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November 15, 2017, 08:47:26 PM
Reply #105
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Lxxx


Let's face it, we're not an attractive proposition to the tier of manager we would like. It's one thing saying we pay good money but so do top clubs and good managers will be in demand from those kind of teams. We're fishing in the middle tier and overpaying to get them to come, as we did for Koeman. The hope is we stumble upon a good one and let's face it, with Silva there is more potential of an upside than there ever was with Koeman, who was a steady, vanity appointment by a new owner wanting to make a statement. Of course he could go horribly wrong but that's the risk with any appointment, from top European clubs to Sunday league.

deCoubertin

November 15, 2017, 08:50:30 PM
Reply #106
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Ross


Actually Hull would have still gone down if Silva had of averaged his results out over a season, they’d have finished level with Watford on 40 points*. but had a worse goal difference.

Looking at it they were 2 points clear of Swansea with 3 games to play and lost all 3 against Sunderland (h) 0-2, Palace (a) 4-0 and Spurs (h) 1-7. Food for thought about the concerns over Silvas ability to organise a defence I guess given how open we’ve been ourselves all season.



Edit: yeah that’s wrong I crossed a bbc article with Hulls results and missed the first game out it seems. They would have stayed up if that's rightly included for the whole season. Still very worrying about the average 2 goals a game and blowing it with 3 games to go with their fate in their own hands.

Like I’ve said before he’s a gamble and could go either way but he shouldn’t be exonerated from Hulls relegation because others sat on in worses or equally bad positions when he got the job and they turned it around and got clear.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 12:34:33 AM by Ross »
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.

November 15, 2017, 09:06:29 PM
Reply #107
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MrWhite


Actually Hull would have still gone down if Silva had of averaged his results out over a season, they’d have finished level with Watford on 40 points but had a worse goal difference.

Looking at it they were 2 points clear of Swansea with 3 games to play and lost all 3 against Sunderland (h) 0-2, Palace (a) 4-0 and Spurs (h) 1-7. Food for thought about the concerns over Silvas ability to organise a defence I guess given how open we’ve been ourselves all season.

It's difficult to put those last three results in context. The Sunderland game was against an already relegated team (who of course always suddenly remember how to play once out), albeit one they needed to win to stay up. The Palace game was away to a resurgent Allardyce stay up specialist team, which they went into knowing even if they won, and beat the outstanding Spurs in the final game, they might still go down on GD. As soon as Palace scored, you can see why their belief was destroyed, and the Spurs loss is easy to understand.

That said your point about goal difference is still fair, since even without those last two big losses they would still have been on worse GD in all likelihood. Whether not conceding with Hull is a fair measure is another question, particular having lost influential midfielders mid season, so maybe his Watford results are a better measure. They aren't that bad, other than a few games against free scoring big teams, and of course our freak comeback (without their good keeper for the key bit). There will more than a couple of teams that concede lots to City and Chelsea as well as Liverpool, particularly away from home. I'm not sure it's possible to draw any conclusions about whether he could get our team defending better as yet.

If we don't get him shortly, the season at Watford with average level PL defenders show give a fair indication.


November 15, 2017, 09:50:07 PM
Reply #108
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Thornton_19


Does everyone forget that Hull started that season with only 12 first team players or something. They were fucking atrocious.

November 15, 2017, 10:13:38 PM
Reply #109
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Bluedylan


Here's the view of a local paper when he left:

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/marco-silvas-hull-city-exit-86287

Quote
It was a reign that lasted just 139 days, including only 18 league games, but short will always mean sweet for Marco Silva and Hull City.

Since first arriving in the depths of a bleak midwinter, the 39-year-old newcomer to the English game restored buoyancy to a sinking ship. The revival was not quite good enough to prevent City from disappearing below the surface, relegated on the penultimate weekend of the Premier League season, but Silva has left behind a fan base mourning his departure as though he was a promotion-winner.

Although news of his impending exit was hardly a surprise last night, supporters found the news no easier to digest. A talented, meticulous and driven head coach, so different to his eight English predecessors, will not be easily replaced as plans are drawn up for a Championship return.

Silva was unable to work his "miracle" at the KCOM Stadium but he still came closer than anyone had envisaged. A City side that reached the turn bottom of the table and on a run of one win in 18 games had no right to come so close.

And that will be the enduring legacy of Silva. He conjured hope where there had been none, giving City reason to believe relegation was not a given. The Tigers could not dodge a fate decreed by a negligent summer but Silva helped them have a very good go. Of the 54 points left up for grabs when appointed back in January, Silva banked 21 of them. That was still six short of the eventual requirements for survival yet three times the points City had managed in the 18 games that preceded his arrival.

Silva found a pulse in City's season just when most thought it was gone. Regardless of how badly the season ended, with three consecutive defeats against Sunderland, Crystal Palace and Tottenham, he will always deserve credit for that. Each and every player to have worked under Silva sang his praises. From the very first training session where he physically dragged captain Michael Dawson where he wanted him, City's head coach left a deep impression. Attention to detail was everything.

"Even if we do something as simple as a throw-in in training and it's not right, he makes you do it again until we get it right," said experienced defender Curtis Davies back in February.

Tom Huddlestone concurred: "Wherever the ball is on the pitch and whatever system we play we know exactly what is and what isn't required of us, with and without the ball. With the amount of information he's put into us there are no excuses."

Silva cajoled all he could from a limited squad. Training was intense and sessions often ran over. There was more carrot than stick, especially when apple crumble was removed from the canteen, but players loved Silva for it.

"He told us we'd have no days off and he's not been wrong but the boys are happy going in every day because we're all learning a lot under him," said Andy Robertson.

Silva was quick to make his mark. Just two training sessions preceded the FA Cup tie with Swansea City, his eventual nemesis in the Premier League relegation fight, but he still threw together a team to win 2-0.

A lengthy injury list made the first leg of the EFL Cup semi-final a thankless mission three days later but even with a squad unable to fill its 18 spots, City emerged with credit in a 2-0 loss. Then came the first of his vital home wins. Coming from behind to beat Bournemouth 3-1, a first victory in over two months lit the fires of belief.

A 0-0 draw away to Manchester United, City's first point at Old Trafford since 1924, was followed up by a 2-0 win over Liverpool. By the time Swansea, West Ham United and Middlesbrough were all defeated at the KCOM Stadium by early April, City had managed to clamber out of the relegation zone for the first time in almost six months.

The 2-0 win over Watford, where City fought for over an hour with 10 men following Oumar Niasse's red card, only entrenched the belief that Silva was something special.

Alas, Sam Clucas' spectacular strike in that win over the Hornets proved to be City's last Premier League goal of note under Silva. A 0-0 draw away to Southampton was commendable but a 2-0 loss at home to Sunderland and then a 4-0 defeat at Crystal Palace undid all the good work of four diligent months. The slender margin for error he inherited had finally expired.

Not that supporters held those defeats against Silva. His name was chanted on repeat once relegation was confirmed, with banners made pleading for the head coach to stick around.

The nagging suspicion is that City have lost a good one in Silva. A very good one, in fact. A month ago there was fanciful thoughts about how high City could finish in the Premier League next season if Silva was given financial backing and a full season.

Not anymore. Deep down it was always clear but Silva will not be accompanying City into the Championship. The last 139 days have made that impossible.

Sounds exactly like Martinez doesn't he, with all that attention to detail and intense training sessions?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 10:16:14 PM by Bluedylan »
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

November 15, 2017, 10:20:41 PM
Reply #110
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MmmBlueRamirez



Sounds exactly like Martinez doesn't he, with all that attention to detail and intense training sessions?

That’s fine as long as they practice corners.
Farming Karma like the Dalai Llama


November 15, 2017, 10:37:51 PM
Reply #111
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D15TIN


That’s fine as long as they practice corners.
And like Martinez he has only had 1 season were he has conceded less than 1 per game.

November 15, 2017, 11:03:24 PM
Reply #112
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kramer0


The man management stuff ("Each and every player to have worked under Silva sang his praises", "There was more carrot than stick, especially when apple crumble was removed from the canteen, but players loved Silva for it") is very promising. Tactics matter but the human element is ultimately more important. Players are people, not robots.

Aside from trying to sound clever, there's a good reason why Nagelsmann said that 70% of his job is social competence.

There's definitely a lot to like. I hope we don't take too long to meet Watford's valuation now that we've made up our minds.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 11:05:19 PM by kramer0 »

November 15, 2017, 11:27:05 PM
Reply #113
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Rhys


It harsh to put him in with Roberto in regards to the relegation of teams element especially.

I wasnt sure on Roberto when we appointed him but it wasnt the fact that he had got them relegated which concerned me. It was that by the time he took them down he had been there 4 seasons, he'd taken over a side that had finished around mid table in the PL 3 out of the 4 previous seasons. Also one that had a solid defence  and turned them instantly into a team that leaked goals. But most of all it was the fact that in 4 years they'd looked like going down each season but he'd done nothing to rectify the major reason they nearly went down each year, the defensive side of the team and it ultimately caught up with them. And in his 3 years with us it's not hard to see why given his outlook on the game and disregard for that part of it.

Silva took over a team that couldnt fill a bench at the start of the season, bruce walked away having just got them promoted again because the club werent willing to sanction deals to replace players properly. They had half a season with a good coach who wasnt a proper manager and looked a poor team. Silva came in and had 4-5 months not 4 years like Roberto, he got them looking like a team very quickly, and from where he got them to they probably should have stayed up to be honest. However the job he did there got them with a chance, they were becoming doomed as each week passed under Phelan.

I dont go along with the view of his time at Hull you can look at it and say yes he is destined for greatness, nor should it be a stick to to say he is poor because he got them relegated because pretty much everyone thought they were doomed with what he inherited. And I think thats the challenge we have as fans making our minds up because it's 2 short spells so it's hard to make a judgement from what we've seen since he came here but overall I'd say it was more impressive than poor for sure.

November 15, 2017, 11:34:43 PM
Reply #114
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blue1948


It harsh to put him in with Roberto in regards to the relegation of teams element especially.

I wasnt sure on Roberto when we appointed him but it wasnt the fact that he had got them relegated which concerned me. It was that by the time he took them down he had been there 4 seasons, he'd taken over a side that had finished around mid table in the PL 3 out of the 4 previous seasons. Also one that had a solid defence  and turned them instantly into a team that leaked goals. But most of all it was the fact that in 4 years they'd looked like going down each season but he'd done nothing to rectify the major reason they nearly went down each year, the defensive side of the team and it ultimately caught up with them. And in his 3 years with us it's not hard to see why given his outlook on the game and disregard for that part of it.

Silva took over a team that couldnt fill a bench at the start of the season, bruce walked away having just got them promoted again because the club werent willing to sanction deals to replace players properly. They had half a season with a good coach who wasnt a proper manager and looked a poor team. Silva came in and had 4-5 months not 4 years like Roberto, he got them looking like a team very quickly, and from where he got them to they probably should have stayed up to be honest. However the job he did there got them with a chance, they were becoming doomed as each week passed under Phelan.

I dont go along with the view of his time at Hull you can look at it and say yes he is destined for greatness, nor should it be a stick to to say he is poor because he got them relegated because pretty much everyone thought they were doomed with what he inherited. And I think thats the challenge we have as fans making our minds up because it's 2 short spells so it's hard to make a judgement from what we've seen since he came here but overall I'd say it was more impressive than poor for sure.
You could never say this was a sitting on the fence comment could you ? Well not really ,could you ? Well if you wanted likes then may be you could ,couldn't you ? Or may be I am wrong and it is just a comment that says nothing ,or I am wrong ?

November 15, 2017, 11:47:07 PM
Reply #115
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Bluedylan


You could never say this was a sitting on the fence comment could you ? Well not really ,could you ? Well if you wanted likes then may be you could ,couldn't you ? Or may be I am wrong and it is just a comment that says nothing ,or I am wrong ?

Where you see 'sitting on the fence', I see 'balanced'. Weighing up some positives and negatives, the difficulty of the decision and then concluding that the positives outweigh the negatives in his opinion.

Down with this sort of thing! It must be amazing or garbage, there is no room for nuance.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

November 15, 2017, 11:47:14 PM
Reply #116
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Paddockoldie


Just not feeling it. I don't think he'll improve  us as much as we need.

November 15, 2017, 11:50:59 PM
Reply #117
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Cereal Killer


Just not feeling it. I don't think he'll improve  us as much as we need.

So Allardyce? Dyche? As much as we need for what, depends what arbitrary target you think we should be looking at?

November 16, 2017, 12:01:51 AM
Reply #118
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Duncs_a_legend

NSNO Subscriber
Here's the view of a local paper when he left:

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/marco-silvas-hull-city-exit-86287

Sounds exactly like Martinez doesn't he, with all that attention to detail and intense training sessions?

Wouldn't trust anything in the Hull Daily Mail.
"I would never die for my beliefs...because I might be wrong"

November 16, 2017, 12:24:17 AM
Reply #119
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eugene


It has been said often enough that only fans are loyal; most players and managers are not. But if this fella bombs out of Watford after 11 games, what does that say about him?  Imagine what would have been said on here if Koeman had left after 11 games?   I really hope he does not come for that reason apart from all what has been already said. Of course if we are landed with him, and results show little improvement then we will probably see him gone by next May. On the other hand he might be better than we think and might jack us up the table. Given a choice between the two, it is Dyche for me.  Niasse will be pleased though. Which Watford players do you fancy? Cleverly?
Don’t start on about Dyche again we’ve been here before, no man love at all    “I was born under wandering star”