September 20, 2018, 11:42:43 PM

Author Topic: The big man, the boss; Big Sam  (Read 126888 times)

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February 02, 2018, 01:12:23 AM
Reply #1815
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eyesalwaysblue


Didn't think of him as anything else but short term but just think he wants very badly to do well here, and i think he might achieve it given the chance...
I still despise Clive Thomas..


February 02, 2018, 01:20:04 AM
Reply #1816
Online

KoemansNumberTens


There is clearly a difference between the top 6 and the other 14 PL teams however that difference is even clearer in La Liga and The Bundesliga.

The  EL has as far as I'm aware only been won by one of the big teams in the Spanish, German or English top flight in recent years.

I don't recall many occassions when the likes of Barca, Real, Bayern where beaten by a team like Eibar, Getafe, Koln, Mainz etc....but just last night Bournemouth beat the reigning PL champions and whilst a shock to some degree it happens far more in the PL than La Liga or Bundesliga.

That is why the PL is the best and most competitive league


Isn't the difference even clearer because them other leagues have genuinely great teams where as England in recent times haven't. City look a top team now?? How many did they win on the spin??

Also more competitive. Leicester won it easily. Chelsea won it easily. City will win it easily. Spain has had some very close races between 3 of the best club sides in the world

Not sure what defines best. Not the best teams. Not the closest races. Random winners including the mighty Leicester

February 02, 2018, 01:28:41 AM
Reply #1817
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GrantyBoy78


Just frightens me that we'll take another punt on the next Martinez, koeman or silva and cross our fingers
Moshiri had his fingers burnt with Koeman and has potentially dodged a bullet with Silva. I can see him sticking with Allerdyce until we’ve reached our potential/inevitable ceiling and then looking to improve from there in a year or two.


February 02, 2018, 01:39:44 AM
Reply #1818
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KoemansNumberTens


Moshiri had his fingers burnt with Koeman and has potentially dodged a bullet with Silva. I can see him sticking with Allerdyce until we’ve reached our potential/inevitable ceiling and then looking to improve from there in a year or two.

I'd rather another year of allardyce than another blind punt.

February 02, 2018, 01:58:25 AM
Reply #1819
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Bluedylan


Well we’ll see soon enough but I can’t see how a “stop gap” can be given so much backing and power over longer term strategic planning and even now with only 13 games to play be looking to add to his back room staff.

Seems like it’s people dealing in wishful thinking rather than looking at the reality of the situation and what’s going on and the more it gets repeated the more people are believing it. 

Nah, I believe it to be true based on my interpretation of the available evidence. Promise it's not wishful thinking, in my case. I really think Moshiri is just making do for now.

They threw 15m at Silva. It would still probably cost less than that to terminate Allardyce's contract, pay his money AND appoint a new manager.

Only way I could see Sam still here next year is if he had an absolutely storming end to the season.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

February 02, 2018, 02:07:36 AM
Reply #1820
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GLewis

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Just frightens me that we'll take another punt on the next Martinez, koeman or silva and cross our fingers



There’s no certainty with any manager.

Issue with Martinez was that we hung on too long.

Koeman wasn’t a flash in the pan appointment and he did good job in the full season (following on from his own previous two seasons) but didn’t do well in particular circumstance this.

Most managers last 3/4 years and that’s if they’ve done really well.

If we’re prepared to buy good (theoretically) players then that should lessen the risk on managers working out.


February 02, 2018, 02:09:48 AM
Reply #1821
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Shropshire Blue

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.

Only way I could see Sam still here next year is if he had an absolutely storming end to the season.

That could push a few people on here over the edge😲
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

February 02, 2018, 02:14:40 AM
Reply #1822
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Bluedylan


That could push a few people on here over the edge😲

It could, but we support Everton not the manager, so if Everton are doing well, people will get on board. We're all fickle and hypocritical.

The reason so many haven't got on board with him is that they don't believe he will achieve good things with us. If he disproves that (which I think is massively unlikely), then we'd be fools not to acknowledge it.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

February 02, 2018, 02:17:05 AM
Reply #1823
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MarcusFenix



Isn't the difference even clearer because them other leagues have genuinely great teams where as England in recent times haven't. City look a top team now?? How many did they win on the spin??

Also more competitive. Leicester won it easily. Chelsea won it easily. City will win it easily. Spain has had some very close races between 3 of the best club sides in the world

Not sure what defines best. Not the best teams. Not the closest races. Random winners including the mighty Leicester


Some would say that the difference could be that Barca, Real Madrid and Bayern negotiate their own tv deals and because they are the biggest clubs in Spain and Germany the money is massively weighted in their favour.

Real and Barca have been bailed out by banks and Spanish Royal Family in recent(ish) times yet still have a disproportionate amount of funds in comparison to the other spanish top flight clubs.

You say our PL isn't close but only a few years ago Aguerro won it on the last day. Then there is Leicester, Leicester kind of proves the point about the competitiveness of the PL because as they showed any team on any given day can beat another.

The way the TV money is shared out amongst PL teams is far more equitable than La Liga or Bundesliga, its why the PL has far more clubs in the top 20 financial list than La Liga or Bundesliga

Looking forward to the day Espanyol, Real Betis etc...win La Liga
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 02:19:53 AM by MarcusFenix »
Whats the difference between lust,love and true love? Spits,swallows and gargles

February 02, 2018, 02:21:04 AM
Reply #1824
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GLewis

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Some would say that the difference could be that Barca, Real Madrid and Bayern negotiate their own tv deals and because they are the biggest clubs in Spain and Germany the money is massively weighted in their favour.

Real and Barca have been bailed out by banks and Spanish Royal Family in recent(ish) times yet still have a disproportionate amount of funds in comparison to the other spanish top flight clubs.

You say our PL isn't close but only a few years ago Aguerro won it on the last day. Then there is Leicester, Leicester kind of proves the point about the competitiveness of the PL because as they showed any team on any given day can beat another.

Looking forward to the day Espanyol, Real Betis etc...win La Liga

Yes but Leicester was a complete fluke. No one thought it was remotely possible before the season started.

It’s barely comprehensible now even.

You have to go back to Leeds to find a previous unlikely winner.

Competitiveness is only judged by what you can reasonably expect.

February 02, 2018, 02:22:10 AM
Reply #1825
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sirblue57


I understand what you mean (may not agree with it totally) but one can't rebuild from the top down. If the foundation isn't sound then the top is irrelevant and lasts only until the underneath crumbles.
I think it does illustrate what I mean when I say more discussion about rebuilding and less about just Sam (new thread needed?) as your comment about the 'top' has merit but how one does that when the money and power is firmly within that 'top' would make for interesting discussion?
In addition more thought-through argument about how one moves a club from where we are to the 'elite'. That is a major factor and, in my lifetime, only Chelsea and Man City have achieved it from the ranks of the also rans and that by unlimited personal wealth from 2 individuals.
One thing I'm realising more than ever is how difficult it is to bridge that gap. I never thought it was easy but being in a position where we now appear to have more financial clout we are seeing that money in itself is not the only thing. The players good enough to be called elite don't want to move down a step in order to help us make the transition. Etc etc etc!!!
So, is a new thread a good idea or is it just another thread to continue the obsession with Sam?
When I say rebuilding from the top, I should have been clearer. The attitudes and leadership have been poor and amateurish.
If we want to succeed in breaking into the elite, whoever is at the top has to take stock and ensure that standards are set and met.
No more.missed opportunities.
No more flavour of the month appointments.
No more stupid text to that prick white.

Let's start to act like a professional outfit, with ambition, with a plan..
It may be a motto to some, but let's at least TRY to live up to it.
I'm the "trophy husband" from the game my wife regrets playing.

February 02, 2018, 02:29:54 AM
Reply #1826
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Shropshire Blue

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In our position there seem to be two very clear risky scenarios and we have to take a gamble. I'm assuming the 'elite' and experienced managers won't look at us until we have more in our locker, both on the pitch and in the bank to strengthen further. We can have opinions about players but we won't ever know the real financial position at any one time.
So, one option is to go with a better known, if not 'at the top' manager from Europe and take the risk he can adapt to the PL or you go with a younger manager from the PL, or even below, who has the PL experience but has not had the money to take his team, whoever that may be, to the next level.
Whichever way we go there is a risk and football fans are very intolerant of giving managers or players the room to make mistakes and learn from them.
I'm coming to the conclusion that if we are to break into that top group then it is a longer term project than I thought it was before Moshiri arrived.
One other thing I think we forget is that both players and managers can change according to the resources, culture and playing style of a club they join. The fact that we buy a player to fill a position doesn't rule out that he can be vastly more effective when played differently.
I hope the disaster that has been the last 12 months doesn't stop us watching something develop and we end up pulling it apart because we dont see work in progress and just demand it all immediately.
Time will tell but we may have seen the birth of something developing last night with Seamus and Theo?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 02:31:32 AM by Shropshire Blue »
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

February 02, 2018, 02:31:07 AM
Reply #1827
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MarcusFenix


Yes but Leicester was a complete fluke. No one thought it was remotely possible before the season started.

It’s barely comprehensible now even.

You have to go back to Leeds to find a previous unlikely winner.

Competitiveness is only judged by what you can reasonably expect.

Indeed it was a fluke but nonetheless it happened. When was the last time an unexpected team won La Liga or Bundesliga?

When was the last time a team like Celta Vigo, Real Sociedad, Nurnburg or 1860 Munchen won their top flight?

Yes Leicester was a fluke but it doesn't change the fact that on any given day a struggling team like West Brom can beat one of the top 6 whereas in La Liga or Bundesliga its a real shock when Barca, Bayern or Real get beat by one of the struggling teams in their division
Whats the difference between lust,love and true love? Spits,swallows and gargles

February 02, 2018, 02:44:04 AM
Reply #1828
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sirblue57


Yes but Leicester was a complete fluke. No one thought it was remotely possible before the season started.

It’s barely comprehensible now even.

You have to go back to Leeds to find a previous unlikely winner.

Competitiveness is only judged by what you can reasonably expect.

FLUKE?  A fluke is one or maybe a couple of results. 38 games is a season. That is not a fluke. You may fluke an FAcup,  bit I doubt the premiership .
It's insulting to Leicester to say it was a fluke. They worked hard and got some amazing results week in and week out..
Unexpected yes. And maybe some time before it happens again. That does not make it a fluke. That depicts lucky. They earned it and deserve respect for that achievement.
I'm the "trophy husband" from the game my wife regrets playing.

February 02, 2018, 02:44:08 AM
Reply #1829
Online

arteta4spain


Well we'll see soon enough but I can't see how a "stop gap” can be given so much backing and power over longer term strategic planning and even now with only 13 games to play be looking to add to his back room staff.

Seems like it's people dealing in wishful thinking rather than looking at the reality of the situation and what's going on and the more it gets repeated the more people are believing it.
He may or may not be a stop gap but Moshiri would have realised that whoever was going to be here after Koeman needed backing as we needed to sort the team out. This was more about spending money to get the squad right not to appease the new manager and get players to fit his style.
We were spiralling and Moshiri panicked and got Sam in. As has been previously mentioned, whoever was in charge was gonna get backed as this problem existed before Sam came in.