December 19, 2018, 09:06:01 AM

Author Topic: The big man, the boss; Big Sam  (Read 138290 times)

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February 04, 2018, 06:13:25 PM
Reply #1875
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Ridge


It's become like an episode of Black Mirror. A young ambitious manager who can help develop youngsters, we've got one of those, he's off to Oxford. Seems we're avoiding chucking the babies out with the bathwater, by retaining the bath water.

We have a pattern of undervaluing our own talent. We didn't rate Barkley enough, he went to Chelsea. We tried to push Lookman on loan to Championship, ends up making instant impact at top end of Bundesliga. I could see Holgate, Dowell, DCL, all playing in CL teams within a few years if they can get out. Vlasic deserves to be in a better situation, we might as well save Onyekuru the pain and sell him before he arrives.

This season was a right off from Koeman, and we had an opportunity to develop a side and build extra into next season, that's what big clubs do. Instead we're extracting minimum effort from experienced players who have no long term value, trying to crawl over the line. You can't get sustained success from buying the best, you have to develop the best, we cocked up the first bit and have given up on the second part.

We just have lots more big name signings, on big wages, we keep parachuting into the team. Look at January signings and it's more flooding positions we have young players and not addressing issues that long term we have gaps.

Underneath a sea of mercenaries and players struggling to adapt, we've got some young talent being criminally underused and under appreciated. We even had a young ambitious manager ready to help transition several of the young players into the team, in a well established fashion. Instead we're undoing all our good work while creating more of the same problems and letting all the good parts leave.


February 04, 2018, 06:13:59 PM
Reply #1876
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sam of the south


I honestly don't think we will, I fear he will still be here next season

I'm almost resigned to him being here next season, and us being involved in a relegation battle from the off
Dignity does not consist in possessing honours, but in deserving them

February 04, 2018, 06:15:59 PM
Reply #1877
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sam of the south


It's become like an episode of Black Mirror. A young ambitious manager who can help develop youngsters, we've got one of those, he's off to Oxford. Seems we're avoiding chucking the babies out with the bathwater, by retaining the bath water.

We have a pattern of undervaluing our own talent. We didn't rate Barkley enough, he went to Chelsea. We tried to push Lookman on loan to Championship, ends up making instant impact at top end of Bundesliga. I could see Holgate, Dowell, DCL, all playing in CL teams within a few years if they can get out. Vlasic deserves to be in a better situation, we might as well save Onyekuru the pain and sell him before he arrives.

This season was a right off from Koeman, and we had an opportunity to develop a side and build extra into next season, that's what big clubs do. Instead we're extracting minimum effort from experienced players who have no long term value, trying to crawl over the line. You can't get sustained success from buying the best, you have to develop the best, we cocked up the first bit and have given up on the second part.

We just have lots more big name signings, on big wages, we keep parachuting into the team. Look at January signings and it's more flooding positions we have young players and not addressing issues that long term we have gaps.

Underneath a sea of mercenaries and players struggling to adapt, we've got some young talent being criminally underused and under appreciated. We even had a young ambitious manager ready to help transition several of the young players into the team, in a well established fashion. Instead we're undoing all our good work while creating more of the same problems and letting all the good parts leave.

I agree with all of that apart from the Unsworth part; he looked woefully out of his depth.
Dignity does not consist in possessing honours, but in deserving them


February 04, 2018, 06:20:12 PM
Reply #1878
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Toffee1


Ya can't pick a team like that and expect to get anything from any game in the Premier League, never mind away at Arsenal.

He's shot himself in the foot quite a few times now, since the draw against Chelsea, with poor team selections.

It runs deeper than Allardyce though, the club is a bit of a circus at the moment. Still no left back signed, it's been nearly 2 years since everyone on here unanimously agreed we needed to replace Baines. Plus there seems to be a problem with our new striker already.

Both Allardyce and Walsh need to go in the summer, and Moshiri needs to get himself better advisors.

David Dein or somebody like him would help Moshiri and the club no end.

February 04, 2018, 06:25:23 PM
Reply #1879
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gizzblue


I'm quite sure your right ...but gave me a giggle the heavily weighted in his favour but 😅😅

Getting rid will still save the youngsters at the club though , therefore saving any money Moshiri loses on the rotund ones contract over a few years .
Born not made a blue .

February 04, 2018, 06:28:26 PM
Reply #1880
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TheTone


I agree with all of that apart from the Unsworth part; he looked woefully out of his depth.

Aged a few years during that run as manager bless him


February 04, 2018, 06:29:51 PM
Reply #1881
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TheTone


David Dein or somebody like him would help Moshiri and the club no end.

David Dein was good in his time, we need someone younger with modern ideas

February 04, 2018, 06:33:49 PM
Reply #1882
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sam of the south


Aged a few years during that run as manager bless him

He did didn't he, poor ol' Rhino.

For his sake, I hope he jumps at the chance of the Oxford job.

For our sake, I hope he stays, nurtures our youngsters, and is waiting in the wings to be caretaker again this season, this time without Big Joe.
Dignity does not consist in possessing honours, but in deserving them

February 04, 2018, 06:38:00 PM
Reply #1883
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Ross


Guaranteed that contract is watertight and completely weighted in Allardyce's favour

Just like Koeman before him Allardyce could have asked for the moon on a stick and a monthly reach around off Moshiri and he’d have got it written into his contract.

How on earth we’ve become such a desperate club in such a small amount of time staggers me, and we’re still spiralling it feels.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.

February 04, 2018, 06:41:50 PM
Reply #1884
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sam of the south


Just like Koeman before him Allardyce could have asked for the moon on a stick and a monthly reach around off Moshiri and he’d have got it written into his contract.

How on earth we’ve become such a desperate club in such a small amount of time staggers me, and we’re still spiralling it feels.

Yeah, Moshiri is pure cringe, is totally clueless regarding football matters, and is easily seduced by an overly confident 'football man' (Koeman, Allardyce)

All the gear but no idea.
Dignity does not consist in possessing honours, but in deserving them

February 04, 2018, 06:45:07 PM
Reply #1885
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Ridge


I agree with all of that apart from the Unsworth part; he looked woefully out of his depth.

What about Koeman and Allardyce, all 3 managers have had the same problems. I'm not quite sure how the bar got set higher for Unsworth than other 2 and I don't think any other manager is going to perform miracles in a month of panic. Before we'd kicked a ball people were screaming inexperience at Unsworth, 2 months in they were calling for Koeman or Allardyce to be given until next season to see changes. They both have deserved the sack, Unsworth never got a contract or a window to address anything.

He inherited Martinez shipwreck and won a game, Koeman's shipwreck and played 4 games in 11 days twice, separated by international break. He had no time to work with players in training.

Even if you discount the lack of support from the board, the lack of trust from the fan base. He's improved us each time he took over and restored some pride and tried to build something. It was a better trajectory and Allardyce won all his initial points off the back of not changing the winning team he inherited from Unsworth.

February 04, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
Reply #1886
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sam of the south


What about Koeman and Allardyce, all 3 managers have had the same problems. I'm not quite sure how the bar got set higher for Unsworth than other 2 and I don't think any other manager is going to perform miracles in a month of panic. Before we'd kicked a ball people were screaming inexperience at Unsworth, 2 months in they were calling for Koeman or Allardyce to be given until next season to see changes. They both have deserved the sack, Unsworth never got a contract or a window to address anything.

He inherited Martinez shipwreck and won a game, Koeman's shipwreck and played 4 games in 11 days twice, separated by international break. He had no time to work with players in training.

Even if you discount the lack of support from the board, the lack of trust from the fan base. He's improved us each time he took over and restored some pride and tried to build something. It was a better trajectory and Allardyce won all his initial points off the back of not changing the winning team he inherited from Unsworth.

Yeah, I think he may have been getting it right in that last game, although there could've been a lift in performance due to the threat/hope of a new regime coming in as well.

The important point, though, was that he got the team selection right that night against West Ham, whereas before it was seriously all over the place, much like Allardyce since his honeymoon period ended.

I really feel he was hampered by Big Joe's involvement (as lovely as he is) and I think if we binned Allardyce now, Unsworth would be more confident this time around, and we would easily ride out the season with improved performances.

However, we would look like a poisoned chalice if we had four managerial changes in one season, and that could affect our chances of making good managerial appointments in the near future.
Dignity does not consist in possessing honours, but in deserving them

February 04, 2018, 07:11:24 PM
Reply #1887
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GLewis

NSNO Subscriber
Guaranteed that contract is watertight and completely weighted in Allardyce's favour

Well it’ll be watertight as all club owners could afford lawyers to get around paying a manager off when they sack them.

February 04, 2018, 07:16:33 PM
Reply #1888
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sam of the south


Well it’ll be watertight as all club owners could afford lawyers to get around paying a manager off when they sack them.

Yes, Allardyce is sitting pretty
Dignity does not consist in possessing honours, but in deserving them

February 04, 2018, 07:19:28 PM
Reply #1889
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GLewis

NSNO Subscriber
Yes, Allardyce is sitting pretty

The 18 month thing will have been the meet in the middle negotiation.

He wants to show he’s better than general rep - we were probably happy to have it as contract length rather than say £4m for this season and a big “survival” pay out.