November 13, 2018, 09:39:49 PM

Author Topic: Steven N'Zonzi  (Read 14047 times)

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December 04, 2017, 02:34:26 AM
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Bluedylan


Didn't Sam have a Turkish midfielder at Blackburn who was getting on a bit? Really skillful.

Tugay. Class player.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.


December 29, 2017, 02:26:13 PM
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Bluedylan


Good player but not thrilled about 25m on a 29 year old personally.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 29, 2017, 05:29:16 PM
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Bluedylan


I know a lot of people don't like them but Spurs has to be the sustainable blueprint for how we want to break into the top 6.

We're never going to be able to outspend the rich clubs, so we have to find another way and aside from Leicester's freak season, Spurs have provided the only obvious alternative way to do it.

Yes Kane is a big part of that but even with him, there was nothing in his early career to suggest he was going to become the monster he's become so it's hard not to conclude that the manager is a massive part of his development.

In the main they have invested in talent in the 20-24 bracket, got a very good manager to work with them and improve them and grown the side into greater than the sum of their parts through good scouting, good recruitment and brilliant coaching.

Nzonzi is a good player but he's unlikely to improve at 29 and it's probable that he will decline a bit, and then 2/3 seasons later you probably have to replace him.

RBLeipzig are another team who do what Spurs have done. Identify the best young talents before they become big, and get them before they become 50m players.

Surely that has to be the way for us.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.


December 29, 2017, 06:17:37 PM
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Bluedylan


At the moment we're playing at the moment we're regularly playing 4/5 teenagers in probably one of the more physical leagues in the world. Our recruitment strategy has mainly been based on necessity. I think the influx of cash to the youth teams has show what our blueprint is going to be, we're obviously thinking long term, but the short term is important too.

Until we can become a more attractive proposition to highly rated 23/24 year olds, we have to aim a bit lower, either in terms of shelf life, or players who might not be completely ready to be starting week in week out. Spurs are really in a good position now, but they have always been able to attract a higher calibre of player, it's not just recently. Their recent purple patch can largely be attributed to an academy players and one who's now outscoring Messi. Let's not downplay how much Kane is contributing to their performances. The way their wage structure is could certainly spell for disaster too.

Remember Moshiri's 'small window'? Well that's closing. We're falling further and further behind and another two seasons of stop gap signings will only exacerbate that. Time to put some proper long term structure in place (for me anyway). We'll never catch up without a proper model that is sustainable and considered.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 29, 2017, 06:58:37 PM
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Bluedylan


As for spurs, I'm not having them as a model. Yes they got it right in the end, but it was probably more luck than judgement, and it took them 20 years. Went through managers from arch enemy ultimate pragmatist George Graham, to euro punt Christian Gross, to cockney wide boy 'Arry Redknapp to euro hipster AVB to true football man Captain Bellend. They usually went for younger players but hit the jackpots in Bale and Kane. They were ready to sell Bale. We were in for Naughton. And they've got the London pull.

Obviously I'm not talking about Spurs 20 years ago, as you well know. I'm talking about them in the last few years.

Players signed that are well before their peak, who will improve and grow massively in value. Lloris (12m), Dembele (15m), Vertonghen (10m), Eriksen (11m), Alli (5m), Dier (4m), Alderweireld (11.5m), Trippier (3.5m), Wanyama (11m), Walker (3m), Rose (1m).

None of those players were at big clubs that would be out of our reach. Obviously prices have inflated so we're not going to be getting anyone for 1m but that model has worked and, along with exceptional management and coaching, has transformed that club from an also ran to a team that can get 86 points in a Prem season.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 29, 2017, 08:26:53 PM
Reply #5
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Bluedylan


Its nothing groundbreaking though.  Its the same as we've done with Baines, Jagielka, Lescott, Coleman, Stones, Lukaku, Arteta, Cahill, etc who all were bought and saw their values rise exponentially whilst with us - some we sold, some we kept too long and lost the value on.  And for every one you've listed above there will be 2 that haven't worked out, the same as we've had.  You've got your Lamela's, Soldado's, N'Jie's, Townsend's, Yedlin's, Paulinho's, Lewis Holtby's, etc.

In Pickford, Holgate, Keane, Gueye, Lookman, DCL, we've got young players bought before their prime who's value we hope will continue to rise.

Yep, you're right to point to Moyes' recruitment as an example of someone else doing similar. Agreed. I don't think I said it was groundbreaking or unique. I'm saying it's effective, if done well, and that's what we need to do, rather than stop gaps and short term measures.

And no you won't get them all right (Kroldrup) but that still shouldn't stop you doing it.

Gana's a bit older but some of the other players you point to, yes, good examples that we are trying to bring youth in. Let's continue with that and do it better.

My fear, and it's an obvious one, is that Allardyce plugs a few holes with short term type buys, he leaves in the summer or next summer, and then we've got another mishmash of different managers' players than will need moving on for the next squad rebuild.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.


December 30, 2017, 12:08:20 AM
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Bluedylan


So if better recruitment isn't the answer what is, because we won't have the money to compete, and we don't have a manager who is a tactical genius or a coaching genius?

7th ever more.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.