Steven N'Zonzi

[brap2]

Yes I’d say it’s the players we’ve bought rather than the type.

I don’t think we’d get Firmino, Salah, Mane (the same way they didn’t get Willian, Sanchez etc).

If we’re moving down a level from that type of player we’re signing either worse players from those league or players from worse leagues which are more risky.

But we’ve signed a good number of players 24 and under.

Yeah I thought that while writing tbh.

I suppose the Adeniran’s and Lookmans of this world could be seen as the Sterling’s and Delle Alli’s.

Guess it comes down to what you say, we can’t buy those players that have proven themselves and more often than not we won’t get the undiscovered talent without superior scouting or superior wage offerings and we generally won’t have either.

The expensive gambles we take - N’Zonzi, Sigurdsson, Tosun - must be a case of, well we’re not going to get the ones we want, and we have a pressing need for a player. Sigurdsson arguably the best playmaker outside the top 6 that we could feasibly get, N’Zonzi the manager’s fancy, and Tosun is maybe walshy’s work in an unfancied League.

I know what bluedylan is saying and I do agree with the constant criticisms of evertons scouting within the data community, but I can’t help but hope for the best.

[Bluedylan]

So if better recruitment isn't the answer what is, because we won't have the money to compete, and we don't have a manager who is a tactical genius or a coaching genius?

7th ever more.

[TheRam]

He’s not going to replace Schneiderlein, he’s a box-to-box player (as Sam said in his presser). He’ll play instead of Davies and he’ll be a massive upgrade.

Are you sure you're not confusing him with anyone here because he's a deep lying playmaker, not box to box at all.

He might have been at Blackburn and Stoke but at Sevilla he's made his name as a DM baller.

[mikey_blue]

He’s not going to replace Schneiderlein, he’s a box-to-box player (as Sam said in his presser). He’ll play instead of Davies and he’ll be a massive upgrade.

When he played at Goodison, he sat back and dictated the play, spreading left or right, and winning pretty much everything in the air. Deffo not going to be box to box.

[Lxxx]

So if better recruitment isn't the answer what is, because we won't have the money to compete, and we don't have a manager who is a tactical genius or a coaching genius?

7th ever more.

It's looking more and more that way. Unless we really do start with a new blueprint and try and build what Atletico clearly set out to build, or a Sevilla. With a board, a DoF, a manager and staff who are all working towards one vision, a vision which doesn't change if a manager goes or a star striker, as the next one has already been identified on a shortlist prior to such an event. 
We always seem to be firefighting and when our managers change it's always one extreme to the next. From a Martinez to a Koeman to an Allardyce, all with different ideas and all requiring different things from their players, or different players.

Or maybe the above just isn't really feasible. Who knows.

[GLewis]

So if better recruitment isn't the answer what is, because we won't have the money to compete, and we don't have a manager who is a tactical genius or a coaching genius?

7th ever more.

Well we won’t have the same players, manager, DoF, scouts for ever so stars aligning etc...

We do need better recruitment but is that on an individual basis (eg Dele Alli instead of Lookman; Vertongen instead of Mori) or is it systematic?

Or is it finding an alchemist who will improve whatever he’s been given thereby making transfers look good?

[GLewis]

It's looking more and more that way. Unless we really do start with a new blueprint and try and build what Atletico clearly set out to build, or a Sevilla. With a board, a DoF, a manager and staff who are all working towards one vision, a vision which doesn't change if a manager goes or a star striker, as the next one has already been identified on a shortlist prior to such an event. 
We always seem to be firefighting and when our managers change it's always one extreme to the next. From a Martinez to a Koeman to an Allardyce, all with different ideas and all requiring different things from their players, or different players.

Or maybe the above just isn't really feasible. Who knows.

I wouldn’t say Allardyce is miles away from Koeman in approach.

We’ve only had the DoF approach for two managers in that Moyes / RM were “do it all managers” so I’d say this transition is relatively consistent.

Eg they’d both want big(ish) strikers who people can play off.

[Rodenplav64]

Davies has made more effort and arguably had more impact in every game than Schneiderlin . It seems to me that every time we sign someone shite we use one of our own ( to coin a phrase ) to blame . As for Lookman the lad has loads to offer but hasn't had the environment to learn . No way should he be written off just yet . As for N'Zonzi , I can't really comment on him other than to say I wouldn't of fancied the one who was at Blackburn or Stoke but if we sign him then at least it will be because the Manager fancies him to do a job in a set system . Hopefully no one on this fucking planet classes him as a No10 .

[Lxxx]

I wouldn’t say Allardyce is miles away from Koeman in approach.

We’ve only had the DoF approach for two managers in that Moyes / RM were “do it all managers” so I’d say this transition is relatively consistent.

Eg they’d both want big(ish) strikers who people can play off.

Point taken. My post should have really read from a Moyes to a Martinez to a Koeman, which is a bit like a pendulum in terms of their approaches. I'm not sure where we are at the minute though, is Allardyce a short term appointment in the mind of Moshiri, is he hedging his bets with an 18 month contract but if he impresses does he feel duty bound to keep him on to see where it goes... I'm not sure we have a plan at the moment from top down.

[brap2]

So if better recruitment isn't the answer what is, because we won't have the money to compete, and we don't have a manager who is a tactical genius or a coaching genius?

7th ever more.

I try not to think about it because I end up coming back to - what’s the fucking point

[kramer0]

We do have the option to hire a better director of football and manager.

With the right people in charge, there’s no reason why we can’t challenge the top 6 and contend for the Europa League and domestic cups.

[Waltzer]

We do have the option to hire a better director of football and manager.

With the right people in charge, there's no reason why we can't challenge the top 6 and contend for the Europa League and domestic cups.

I completely agree, I think moshiri just wanted to go down this route and I don't know how much due diligence was done on ensuring we got the right people in as opposed to the right name.
It's not easy and I don't know who or what is the answer?

 I'm actually intrigued to see how Barnsley get on as their owners have a clear vision to success and are doing well at Nice, vision is what we lack imo

[TheRam]

I completely agree, I think moshiri just wanted to go down this route and I don't know how much due diligence was done on ensuring we got the right people in as opposed to the right name.
It's not easy and I don't know who or what is the answer?

 I'm actually intrigued to see how Barnsley get on as their owners have a clear vision to success and are doing well at Nice, vision is what we lack imo

I'd love us to go moneyball one day.

[Shropshire Blue]

Having a vision doesn't mean mistakes are not made along the way.
I'm no expert but the more time passes the more I think the flaw in the plan was Koeman.
None of us know the internal politics, who influences what, who buys into what and like him or not we are into a new era with Big Sam. I only see what we all see, no 'itk' for me, but so far he seems like a breath of fresh air. News conferences and after match interviews are the best around. Humour, facts, opinions and a distinct lack of bullshit. Just perhaps that wind of change is blowing around the training pitches and offices of Finch Farm and Goodison.
Let's cut them all some slack - they are all professionals, all recruited on past achievements and therefore have something to contribute.
We might just be seeing the rebuilding job let's not wreck it all through impatience

[bluenuck]

I'd love us to go moneyball one day.

Don't count on it.

It's almost impossible in non North American sports. There's no relegation in North American sports. It's a completely different landscape on how you build your teams. There's also salary caps over here.

And by the way. The Oakland A's haven't won anything of significance in over 20 years.