December 17, 2018, 05:42:30 PM

Author Topic: Steven N'Zonzi  (Read 14603 times)

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December 29, 2017, 05:46:07 PM
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GLewis

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And the rabble next door.

They’ve tended to buy CL level players though just not ones that the elite clubs would want.

£30m+ for Firmino was a lot of money. Mane wasn’t exactly cheap and wouldn’t sign for us if we were an option etc. Same for Salah.


December 29, 2017, 05:51:50 PM
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GLewis

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I know a lot of people don't like them but Spurs has to be the sustainable blueprint for how we want to break into the top 6.

We're never going to be able to outspend the rich clubs, so we have to find another way and aside from Leicester's freak season, Spurs have provided the only obvious alternative way to do it.

Yes Kane is a big part of that but even with him, there was nothing in his early career to suggest he was going to become the monster he's become so it's hard not to conclude that the manager is a massive part of his development.

In the main they have invested in talent in the 20-24 bracket, got a very good manager to work with them and improve them and grown the side into greater than the sum of their parts through good scouting, good recruitment and brilliant coaching.

Nzonzi is a good player but he's unlikely to improve at 29 and it's probable that he will decline a bit, and then 2/3 seasons later you probably have to replace him.

RBLeipzig are another team who do what Spurs have done. Identify the best young talents before they become big, and get them before they become £50m players.

Surely that has to be the way for us.

It’ll be interesting to see what they’re like if / when Pochettino goes.

Could be that they struck lucky with the coach rather than a sustainable model for consistent challenges etc.

Leipzig is interesting as they clearly spend decent amounts otherwise most of the rest of the country wouldn’t hate them.

It’s also more fluid in Germany below Bayern.

Having said all that I agree with the general premise.

But we could point to Pickford, Keane, Klaassen and Sandro as an attempt this summer to sign the spine of the team with player who are sub 24.

We’ve got a distance to catch up the top 6 so, given that we know all young players are gambles, we also need some players who will play exactly how you think / want them to.

Unfortunately players like Schneiderlin haven’t provided that guarantee of consistency so we’d still be looking for a midfielder for example.

December 29, 2017, 05:55:23 PM
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GLewis

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Isn’t £25m for a Seville player pretty much the equivalent?

The only thing being we’ve got a plethora of similar players it seems and he’s closer than retirement than them all.

Re him specifically see my post above with regards to Schneiderlin.

I do think we should be after some Lukaku / Fellaini type signings too though.

Of course re Spurs (or any of the other top teams) if we’d been in that bracket then we probably would have had better players with Stones, Lukaku etc and therefore selling them doesn’t leave massive gaps and is easier to find replacements.


December 29, 2017, 08:00:29 PM
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GLewis

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The general point is you don’t need to be buying ageing (or “experienced”) players to successfully qualify for the big event. There’s at least two clubs who’ve competed with more affluent clubs and bridged the divide, and that’s just in this league.

Paying £25m for a 29 year old who’s not much of an improvement on our 28 year old we’ve not long bought for £25m and will have trouble moving on doesn’t sound like a great business plan that’s sustainable. Especially when there’s urgent surgery required elsewhere in the squad.

Ignoring the squad necessity argument which has a point (unless players are leaving); both Spurs and L’pool were in much stronger positions than us.

The only gatecrashers from way outside that group were city who did buy more experienced players for big money.

As I said I don’t think that we shouldn’t be buying some younger players but equally we have.

December 29, 2017, 11:44:32 PM
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GLewis

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Also we are worse at identifying players than those teams so our results have been poor.

Have a look at @reverse_ball on twitter, good insight on transfers from Liverpool perspective. Picking up proven sub/peak talent from top leagues (firmino, Mane, Salah) before that some major youth success (coutinho, Sterling, sturridge)

They have also has a strategy of non top league talent which looks a bit more like us atm (Lookman, Adeniran, Henry, Tosun) during which time they got assaidi, boring, Asos’s, markovic, origi...so you can see what we’re doing is probably even more risky, given Liverpool’s general successful transfers.

When you buy ‘risks’ at Sub peak ages from non top 5 leagues they are just more than likely going to die on their arse.

When you spend big on attacking talent and supplement with intelligent purchases you reap rewards.

We’re quite bad at both.


Yes I’d say it’s the players we’ve bought rather than the type.

I don’t think we’d get Firmino, Salah, Mane (the same way they didn’t get Willian, Sanchez etc).

If we’re moving down a level from that type of player we’re signing either worse players from those league or players from worse leagues which are more risky.

But we’ve signed a good number of players 24 and under.


December 30, 2017, 12:22:18 AM
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GLewis

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So if better recruitment isn't the answer what is, because we won't have the money to compete, and we don't have a manager who is a tactical genius or a coaching genius?

7th ever more.

Well we won’t have the same players, manager, DoF, scouts for ever so stars aligning etc...

We do need better recruitment but is that on an individual basis (eg Dele Alli instead of Lookman; Vertongen instead of Mori) or is it systematic?

Or is it finding an alchemist who will improve whatever he’s been given thereby making transfers look good?


December 30, 2017, 12:24:56 AM
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GLewis

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It's looking more and more that way. Unless we really do start with a new blueprint and try and build what Atletico clearly set out to build, or a Sevilla. With a board, a DoF, a manager and staff who are all working towards one vision, a vision which doesn't change if a manager goes or a star striker, as the next one has already been identified on a shortlist prior to such an event. 
We always seem to be firefighting and when our managers change it's always one extreme to the next. From a Martinez to a Koeman to an Allardyce, all with different ideas and all requiring different things from their players, or different players.

Or maybe the above just isn't really feasible. Who knows.

I wouldn’t say Allardyce is miles away from Koeman in approach.

We’ve only had the DoF approach for two managers in that Moyes / RM were “do it all managers” so I’d say this transition is relatively consistent.

Eg they’d both want big(ish) strikers who people can play off.