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Author Topic: [News]Allardyce: All I've done is made things easier  (Read 5784 times)

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December 19, 2017, 01:51:41 PM
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Bluedylan


Would love us to play some football and control a game with the ball, at some point.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.


December 19, 2017, 09:25:56 PM
Reply #1
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Bluedylan


But you are only a relatively new fan. The Harvey,Ball,Kendall side had style. Oh, and even in your early days if you could manage to see over the wall,  Manager Kendall's 80's team had style.  Can't remember any others though.

Moyes' team played some lovely stuff in his later years.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 19, 2017, 09:47:50 PM
Reply #2
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Bluedylan


I defo 100% care about how we play our football. Not asking for slow, sideways football at all, but we need to massively improve our quality on the ball and our ability to control games with the ball.

Fair enough Sam has focused on the defence and our shape initially (which makes sense), but as time passes he will need to show that he can get the team playing if he really wants to live up to managing a bigger club, with loftier ambitions (which I think he's aware of). Hoofball will only get you so far.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.


December 19, 2017, 10:00:50 PM
Reply #3
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Bluedylan


Don't you think it's more of a squad issue. We lack dribblers, we lack pace and movement and we lack a consistent targetman.

We look a lot more exciting when lookman is playing and doing well. We'll go up another notch with bolasie too hopefully.

Yep, he's working with what he's got. For me I think the issues are further back. I'd like a centre half who's good on the ball and a midfield playmaker.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 19, 2017, 10:08:15 PM
Reply #4
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Bluedylan


ah, i think i may have picked up on why some people differ in here.

When I say i don't care about style, i only care about results - i mean "if hoofball & timewasting are the most effective way of getting results, then so be it".
But you have just done a good job of explaining to me why people differ. It is clear you think controlling the game and and quality on the ball is the most effective way of winning games.

I'd probably agree if i think on it more. Horses for courses at the moment though

Yeah exactly. I think we can hoofball our way to 7th pretty much every season and that's fine. Once that is achieved we will want something more, as we should, and the best way to achieve that (imo) and compete with those above us is to get hold of the football. Same applies if we want to do better in Europe in the future, for me.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 19, 2017, 10:16:35 PM
Reply #5
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Bluedylan


I didn't want to mention the playmaker. I go on about number 10s enough. Think we need barkley to stay or a like for like replacement

Hoping probably extremely ambitiously that Allardyce can find us a JJ Okacha too. Crying out for a player with real magic

Even a deeper playmaker in Morgan's position, but one with the personality to get on the ball, dictate things, play forward passes, give and receive the ball under pressure. Someone like Marco Verratti (that we could attract).
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.


December 20, 2017, 10:31:16 PM
Reply #6
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Bluedylan


Leicester did win the league being a counter-attacking side. Not that we have the pace or players for it, mind you.

Yeah it's just personal preference I suppose. I prefer football with the ball, to watch and to play. Also I love Everton and football. Some people only care about or watch Everton, but aren't arsed about footie beyond that, which is totally fair enough. I'm not an 'any means necessary' person. Some are. Again, no worries, just a difference of opinion.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 21, 2017, 01:12:23 AM
Reply #7
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Bluedylan


You can play good football and overachieve beyond your budget (see Spurs). It's really not an either/or. Also, just to re-iterate, I'm not referring to tepid sideways passing when I say 'good football'. It's really not too much to ask to be able to pass the ball through midfield at the top level. You can do it with tempo and purpose.

Also, I think Guardiola is demonstrating that teams who play with the ball have a higher ceiling than those who play re-active football.

EDIT: This isn't me slagging Sam off, by the way. He's done fine and I'm not expecting miracles overnight. Just hoping to see signs of progression over the next few months.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 01:16:05 AM by Bluedylan »
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 21, 2017, 01:39:26 AM
Reply #8
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Bluedylan


Re Guardiola (Id like at this point to rehash the pointless trivia that Guardiola means piggy bank in Catalan) you could say his recent failures in CL would point to a ceiling of total possession vs organisation and ruthless finishers.

Re direct football I’d also assume that the wastefulness ratio of hopeless wellies decreases with the quality of player and you end up with early Mourinho Chelsea etc. who weren’t bad teams and didn’t not control games.

Guardiola's style doesn't guarantee you will win every match ever, like, especially in knockout tournaments. I'd still say the ceiling is higher personally, when it's done expertly. City's squad is good but it's not 16 wins in a row good. They have plenty of quality but in numerous positions they don't have the best players in the league, let alone Europe.

Also, if you had to pay to watch football or we're choosing to watch a game, anyone who prefers the perfect culmination of Mourinho's style over the equivalent of Guardiola's very best is frankly a bit odd or being deliberately contrarian (not aimed at you, btw).
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 21, 2017, 02:41:32 AM
Reply #9
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Bluedylan


They have done it a different way (spurs) in that why’ve always tried to play good football, but they definitely have spent money to get where they are.

Plus, they have two force multipliers in Poch and Kane, and before that they had one in Bale, so they’ve kind of been blessed or rewarded.

I too would like nice football. Just not sure what path we’re going to take to get it..


Spurs' net spend from 2012 to 2017 is £1m. City's was £400m, Utd's £368m, Arsenal £205m, Chelsea £192m. No way should they be finishing 2nd and 3rd, if money equals league position. 
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 21, 2017, 02:24:36 PM
Reply #10
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Bluedylan


In the past I wouldn’t say they have but he’s got Sane and DeBruyne in this side who are purely athletic direct midfielders who don’t know the meaning of passive possession, but he’s of course getting what he needs out of them.

And he's got a keeper capable of pinging a 50 yard pass on a sixpence over a high press when needed, so he's developed and adapted his style to combat those who combated the earlier inception of tiki-taka.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.