August 26, 2019, 05:08:09 PM

Author Topic: Usmanov  (Read 63075 times)

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February 13, 2019, 08:56:03 PM
Reply #735
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School of Science


The main thing is definitely money. In terms of competing we have neither the squad money or manager
The main thing is definitely money. In terms of competing we have neither the squad money or manager

Na used to believe that, but we had a better team with Moyes and no money. We've squandered loads of money on crap and mercenaries.
Everton premier league champions 2014 / 15


February 13, 2019, 10:10:48 PM
Reply #736
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MmmblueBernard


Na used to believe that, but we had a better team with Moyes and no money. We've squandered loads of money on crap and mercenaries.

IMWT
Farming Karma like the Dalai Llama

February 13, 2019, 10:29:58 PM
Reply #737
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blueToffee

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It's not. See Spurs.

What have Spurs won? Money is behind the success of pretty much every club seriously competing for the biggest competitions.

It's clearly not everything, nor is it a magic wand without the proper people in place to use it, but long term success relies on being able to financially compete with the very top teams.

Although I was being flippant, there are going to be exceptions (Spurs have done well, Atletico) but it's a narrow road that relies on not losing the manager capable of success under such conditions.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 10:32:39 PM by blueToffee »


February 13, 2019, 10:48:40 PM
Reply #738
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Bluedylan


What have Spurs won? Money is behind the success of pretty much every club seriously competing for the biggest competitions.

It's clearly not everything, nor is it a magic wand without the proper people in place to use it, but long term success relies on being able to financially compete with the very top teams.

Although I was being flippant, there are going to be exceptions (Spurs have done well, Atletico) but it's a narrow road that relies on not losing the manager capable of success under such conditions.

Spurs are winning unbelievably to be in the position they are, on their net spend. It's absurd (in my opinion) to judge them solely on trophies.

Of course money matters, but praying for some windfall from a 3rd world dictator isn't the way forward. Much better to just make much better decisions throughout the club and maximise performance and potential that way.
''In the words of the prophet, today you sell your ring, tomorrow your watch, next week your chain and in 77 days, you won't have eyes to cry with''

Accattone - Pier Paolo Pasolini.

February 13, 2019, 10:54:57 PM
Reply #739
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TheRam

NSNO Subscriber
Fully agree with @Bluedylan on this.

Hey there mister can you tell me what happened to the seeds I've sown
Can you give me a reason sir as to why they've never grown

February 13, 2019, 11:05:02 PM
Reply #740
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blue1948


Fully agree with @Bluedylan on this.


It is not you but Mr Moshiri who must agree .


February 13, 2019, 11:16:14 PM
Reply #741
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blueToffee

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Spurs are winning unbelievably to be in the position they are, on their net spend. It's absurd (in my opinion) to judge them solely on trophies.

Of course money matters, but praying for some windfall from a 3rd world dictator isn't the way forward. Much better to just make much better decisions throughout the club and maximise performance and potential that way.

Yeah, I'm not suggesting we cross our fingers and hope that someone with bigger pockets comes along. All we can do is as you say make good decisions, appoint good people and try and incrementally move forward.

However, I do stand by the fact that continued success relies on a budget that competes on the top end. Otherwise, eventually a bigger fish will come along and poach your better players and manager. I mean, I don't think anyone would be surprised if Pochettino decided to go to Real Madrid or Man United should Spurs fall short again this season.  Or you get stories emerging like this:

https://talksport.com/football/475336/christian-eriksen-tottenham-contract-real-madrid/

There will always be a ceiling otherwise. Plus, usually it also provides a floor more often that not too. When Man United have a disastrous season, they're still only going so far down the league as the players they have are of a certain calibre.

February 13, 2019, 11:24:24 PM
Reply #742
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gizzblue


I really wish we were as shit as spurs ....I know that have won as much as us in the last decade ,but fuck me that play proper attacking footy ....would they be half as good without Kane ,the last few weeks with Son suggest they would ...this is who we should be aiming to emulate before we can hope of cups or more .

And I hate to say this as I'm not a big spurs fan at all .
Born not made a blue .

February 14, 2019, 12:11:47 AM
Reply #743
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GLewis

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Spurs show you can become competitive without money.

What they haven’t yet shown either by winning, or how they cope without the manager and loss of 2/3/4 stars (it’s easier to replace a RB than Kane/ Eriksen etc.) is that they can better the money teams when it really counts.

At the moment it’s still clubs with massive money who win.

Atlético are a better example but the comparison isn’t so straight forward as although they are way behind Madrid and Barça they’re still 3rd in a big league which gives them better access to players than maybe even Arsenal, say.

The winners are increasingly those with most money.

As a sustainable strategy over 15-20 years we need to find a niche which is self sustaining, even if it’s ceiling is limited.

Given the barriers to entry of the top 5 (excluding spurs moneywise) here even with a richer billionaire there’s no guarantee of breaking through to the top of that group.

We’re yet to see the exit of a mega benefactor and it’s impact but it might not be pretty.

So we need a model that enables consistent performance at a reasonably high level that isn’t reliant on individuals.

You’d assume that would be with development of younger players attracted through the possibility of first team minutes at a good level.

February 14, 2019, 01:35:03 AM
Reply #744
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blueToffee

NSNO Subscriber
Spurs show you can become competitive without money.

What they haven’t yet shown either by winning, or how they cope without the manager and loss of 2/3/4 stars (it’s easier to replace a RB than Kane/ Eriksen etc.) is that they can better the money teams when it really counts.

At the moment it’s still clubs with massive money who win.

Atlético are a better example but the comparison isn’t so straight forward as although they are way behind Madrid and Barça they’re still 3rd in a big league which gives them better access to players than maybe even Arsenal, say.

The winners are increasingly those with most money.

As a sustainable strategy over 15-20 years we need to find a niche which is self sustaining, even if it’s ceiling is limited.

Given the barriers to entry of the top 5 (excluding spurs moneywise) here even with a richer billionaire there’s no guarantee of breaking through to the top of that group.

We’re yet to see the exit of a mega benefactor and it’s impact but it might not be pretty.

So we need a model that enables consistent performance at a reasonably high level that isn’t reliant on individuals.

You’d assume that would be with development of younger players attracted through the possibility of first team minutes at a good level.

I'd imagine most would take a niche that means we may not be winning all that much, if anything, but are at least relevant/competitive/in the conversation. Much like Spurs. At least for a while.

In terms of Spurs and Atletico the litmus test will be when/if lose their managers. When clubs are built up to revolve around their managers to such a degree, as we were with Moyes or Man Utd did with Ferguson when the lynchpin is still in place then the plate spinning act can work and look good but after they go it's not hard to see why it can quickly become a mess.

Not to say that'll happen to Spurs, but it will be a test of their current model.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 03:05:29 AM by blueToffee »

February 14, 2019, 01:35:36 AM
Reply #745
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TrevorSteven


Spurs show you can become competitive without money.

What they haven’t yet shown either by winning, or how they cope without the manager and loss of 2/3/4 stars (it’s easier to replace a RB than Kane/ Eriksen etc.) is that they can better the money teams when it really counts.

At the moment it’s still clubs with massive money who win.

Atlético are a better example but the comparison isn’t so straight forward as although they are way behind Madrid and Barça they’re still 3rd in a big league which gives them better access to players than maybe even Arsenal, say.

The winners are increasingly those with most money.

As a sustainable strategy over 15-20 years we need to find a niche which is self sustaining, even if it’s ceiling is limited.

Given the barriers to entry of the top 5 (excluding spurs moneywise) here even with a richer billionaire there’s no guarantee of breaking through to the top of that group.

We’re yet to see the exit of a mega benefactor and it’s impact but it might not be pretty.

So we need a model that enables consistent performance at a reasonably high level that isn’t reliant on individuals.

You’d assume that would be with development of younger players attracted through the possibility of first team minutes at a good level.

I do agree but at the same time we have to remember that Tottenham has two advantages compared to us.

As of today they are the top club in their city, while we have been seen as the little brother of Liverpool since the late 80´s. Players of today are born between 1990 and 2000 which means none of them ever seen Everton as a top team while always seen Liverpool as a big team. This is also pointing towards another problem. Even Liverpool havent won PL since the 80´s but still they have managed to keep status as a big club and kept a winning mentality as we have lost it completely. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum has become a joke...we are mediocre when it comes to status and we are mediocre when it comes to how the club and players look at themselves.

Seccond problem is the city in itself. Players of today is following the global trend - people want to live in the biggest cities with the most to offer - making London the primary destination and for sure more attractive than Liverpool. This makes us having to fight with the likes of West Ham for players with many rather opting London and that shit team instead of us. Consequently Everton needs to pay higher wages than a team like Tottenham...unfortunately.

February 14, 2019, 01:50:00 AM
Reply #746
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BlueForYou


Yep - dead right

You can almost lump us with Newcastle, Villa, Leeds - mediocre

Avoiding relegation is our boast

Disheartening

"We don't need a badge - everybody knows those blue and white shirts..............Everton"

Harry Catterick

February 14, 2019, 01:50:25 AM
Reply #747
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Bob Latcford


We should have a separate thread for rumours that resurface every time we have to go two weeks without a game.

Or a win

February 14, 2019, 02:18:17 AM
Reply #748
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Waltzer


Spurs are a good example, but people on here are talking like their biggest investment is about 60k, they have spent a fair wedge, they've just recouped massive amounts by selling, there is also this misconception that they don't pay well either, but they do.
The one thing they've done significantly better than us is their transfer strategy, get younger players in with a good sell on possibility who are hungry to succeed, their hierarchy also know how they want them to play and their recruitment in terms of manager and players follow a similar philosophy

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February 14, 2019, 03:26:54 AM
Reply #749
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Lxxx


The main thing is definitely money. In terms of competing we have neither the squad money or manager

Nah. I know it does sound a bit like history repeating from last season but this squad are under-achieving. The whole is definitely less than the sum of it’s parts.

We need a Pochettino, although doesn’t everyone, but a similar manager with a plan and a strong personality to match. Money on top would be nice of course but underpinning it all there needs to be a strategy otherwise it all goes down the toilet, as the past 18 months have proved.