August 18, 2019, 06:14:06 PM

Author Topic: Goodison for Gomes?  (Read 115331 times)

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March 21, 2019, 08:24:18 PM
Reply #945
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kramer0


Dembele was a good defender in addition to the dribbles and general pressure resistance.

If Gomes had that in his game, I think I'd be on board.

As is, I'd rather go for Sander Berge if we're looking for a Dembele-esque player. He has the baseline skills, is cheaper, and has way more defensive upside than Gomes.



March 21, 2019, 08:27:08 PM
Reply #946
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Bluedylan


Welcome to the party haha.

But yeah I don't really see him as a difference maker and I am very much saying sign him at that price with the proviso that we sign someone else who actually does good stuff, but I think there are some good points to signing him :

You probably could sign someone younger with a higher ceiling for less (billing for example you'd probably get for less than 15), but there's a lot to be said for a player settling into the league and culture of the club. Whatever you can say about Gomes he has settled very well and taken to the club and fans really well. He seems well liked, eg his shoulder bump with Mina after Richarlison goal (if you haven't seen this watch it ASAP ) and in terms of being an ambassador for the club he talks well and seems well regarded.

It can take players up to 2 years to get to that point, so if the price is right and it feels a positive move to the staff and players, and on a personal note frankly he's a very nice player to watch (even if I wish he did more) then I don't mind that. There's bigger mistakes you can make.

Re the statistical argument for Andre gomes - I mean, he's never going to be the player it was thought he could have been, and he's not going to be like a take the game by the scruff of the neck player, but in terms of deep ball progressions per 90 which is a metric used to track effectiveness of midfield players moving the ball up from defensive zones into more impactful ones - he's actually been within the top 20 in Europe's big leagues this season despite not having his best year and playing for a shit side, according to what I've been following, and that is something we've missed since barkley runs and Barry's passing.

If we don't get him I won't be assed because my original prediction was he'd be hounded out by now for being a more handsome but less effective Morgan Schneiderlin, but he's shown enough to me and has a positive enough feeling around the squad to say if the price is right then it won't be a huge mistake.

I just didn't think there was enough evidence to form a proper opinion on him earlier in the season. People were saying 'sign him' or 'no ta' based on three games. I said at the time, let's see how he goes through the winter and through the labours of a full season and get a fuller picture.

And now that's happened, I don't quite think there's enough there to lash a sizeable amount of money on. We've wasted so much money over the last few years, and it's critical that every penny is well considered now. I'd sooner spend £40m on a Richarlison-level player in Gomes' position than £25m on Gomes, personally.

I think you were at the party a bit too early.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 08:33:13 PM by Bluedylan »
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March 21, 2019, 09:12:52 PM
Reply #947
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van der Meyde


I think you were at the party a bit too early.
I mean these judgements were based on his career to-date, rather than just 3 or 4 games in an Everton shirt.

He's surpassed my expectations, but it's still not quite enough for me for the money talked about.
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March 21, 2019, 09:27:19 PM
Reply #948
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Evertonian in NC


I think that, in the current market, the quoted price is what one will have to play for a reasonably balanced, first XI midfielder.

Especially if we lose Gana, we need someone familiar with our setup to remain.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

March 21, 2019, 09:33:33 PM
Reply #949
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GrantyBoy78


I mean these judgements were based on his career to-date, rather than just 3 or 4 games in an Everton shirt.

He's surpassed my expectations, but it's still not quite enough for me for the money talked about.
For the money talked about? Itís not 1995 mate. Anything around £20m-£25m is a steal, I think.

Gomes, Mina and Bernard will all be so much better next season, having had a pre-season.


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March 21, 2019, 09:45:46 PM
Reply #950
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kramer0


£20-25m plus something like his Barca wage is way too much for someone who's a rotation player at best for an actual good side.

If your scouting team can't do better, sack them all.


March 21, 2019, 10:04:42 PM
Reply #951
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van der Meyde


For the money talked about? Itís not 1995 mate. Anything around £20m-£25m is a steal, I think.

Gomes, Mina and Bernard will all be so much better next season, having had a pre-season.


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I mean, I'm never going to think £20m for a player who I don't think is particularly effective is a good deal. You wouldn't either. We just rate him differently.

Apart from dribbling skills, I don't think he offers us anywhere near enough in defence or attack.

We don't have infinite money and, as @Bluedylan suggested, I'd just rather we spent our money on someone with more upside/effect on the scoreline.
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March 22, 2019, 12:56:14 AM
Reply #952
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eyesalwaysblue


£20-25m plus something like his Barca wage is way too much for someone who's a rotation player at best for an actual good side.

If your scouting team can't do better, sack them all.
Bollocks, he's been a shinning light in a tactical cluster fuck that has been our midfield all fucking season
I still despise Clive Thomas..

March 22, 2019, 01:05:35 AM
Reply #953
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gizzblue


Imho we would be mental to pass up on a player who has atributes we sorely lack in other players in the midfield .
Born not made a blue .

March 22, 2019, 02:51:19 AM
Reply #954
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brap2

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Imho we would be mental to pass up on a player who has atributes we sorely lack in other players in the midfield .

what are they
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

March 22, 2019, 02:55:12 AM
Reply #955
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Juanito


Iím convinced in a balanced midfield he will be ace. Especially at the price quoted and the fact he is making the right signs to stay. He is the number 8 we have been after in my eyes. I think he would absolutely shine with a Gareth Barry type player in there with him and Gana.

March 22, 2019, 03:21:29 AM
Reply #956
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Bob Sacamano

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I enjoy watching him, so Iím kinda in on that level to be honest. Fed up of watching shite for years I just want to enjoy a game of togga now and again.

March 22, 2019, 04:41:55 AM
Reply #957
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van der Meyde


Iím convinced in a balanced midfield he will be ace. Especially at the price quoted and the fact he is making the right signs to stay. He is the number 8 we have been after in my eyes. I think he would absolutely shine with a Gareth Barry type player in there with him and Gana.
I guess the question I would ask is on what basis you think this?

He didnít shine in a balanced Barcelona midfield and he didnít particularly shine at Valencia either, what gives you this faith in him?
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March 22, 2019, 01:11:40 PM
Reply #958
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Juanito


I guess the question I would ask is on what basis you think this?

He didnít shine in a balanced Barcelona midfield and he didnít particularly shine at Valencia either, what gives you this faith in him?

Firstly, it can take players from abroad a season to settle in the premiership. A manager will consider that. Roberto Firmino was considered a flop in his first season, 2015. I could name countless others and so could you.

He his not at the level needed to play at Barcelona, the best side in world football arguably, otherwise he wouldnít be here. They also require a particular style of La Masia player that is a rare quality to find. Arthur Melo seems to have it.

Did you watch him at Valencia? He was outstanding. Thatís why Barcelona signed him in the first place. Also, when he signed here, he was the best player for us until after the Derby. He was the best player on the pitch in the Derby and demonstrated qualities we just donít have in the middle of the park.  Keep hold of the ball, skill, can play box to box, strength, can pass the ball forward.

He looked knackered around Christmas at a time he is not used to playing (also hardly used at Barce) and has been part of what looks like an unbalanced side.

He also has good work rate.  Take a look at some of those performances for Valencia and re visit the Derby at Anfield. 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 01:23:07 PM by Juanito »

March 22, 2019, 01:22:36 PM
Reply #959
Online

Macca77


Just noticed he's not in the sky sports power rankings list, swerve him