October 14, 2019, 05:40:04 PM

Author Topic: Silva’s Playbook  (Read 125375 times)

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November 21, 2018, 12:48:39 AM
Reply #570
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brap2

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There's gaping holes in a lot of these new analytical stats. Everyone wants to be the new Bill James in their respective sports so bad that their not seeing these holes.




Sorry just to jump back to this - there are gaps, as there are in any quant work, you are trying to turn life and sport and art and beauty into numbers and extract meaningful learnings without blowing your brains out - however, there is a huge amount of work going into finding these gaps, and working on the models etc.

It’s unfair and frankly a bit daft to suggest they are ignored or not worth the paper they are printed on.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.


November 21, 2018, 01:42:16 AM
Reply #571
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Martip


I think there is a place or stats and figures but I think it is more beneficial in defensive positions. Ie a defensive midfielder can be judged on distance run, tackles and interceptions made over the course of a season which Gana for example will boss because he is boss.

November 21, 2018, 02:47:31 AM
Reply #572
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bluenuck


Sorry just to jump back to this - there are gaps, as there are in any quant work, you are trying to turn life and sport and art and beauty into numbers and extract meaningful learnings without blowing your brains out - however, there is a huge amount of work going into finding these gaps, and working on the models etc.

It’s unfair and frankly a bit daft to suggest they are ignored or not worth the paper they are printed on.

Sorry, my post did seem a bit daft. I wasn't meaning to suggest they are ignoring the holes and weren't working on them. And I think the more stats you can come up with the better. But basically It just seems to me a lot of these analytical guys are putting the cart before the horse in a lot of their work. It's not a race to see who invented it all.

I really don't see these types of stats working in any other team sport than baseball either as baseball is a very individual team sport. Meaning it doesn't really matter who you play with, what system you play in, etc. etc. It's all down to you when you're up to bat trying to hit that ball, or trying to catch the ball. You could put Mike Trout(best player in baseball) on the worst team and he'd have basically the same numbers. I don't think you could say that for any other sport.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 02:50:01 AM by bluenuck »


November 21, 2018, 04:25:44 AM
Reply #573
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brap2

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Sorry, my post did seem a bit daft. I wasn't meaning to suggest they are ignoring the holes and weren't working on them. And I think the more stats you can come up with the better. But basically It just seems to me a lot of these analytical guys are putting the cart before the horse in a lot of their work. It's not a race to see who invented it all.

I really don't see these types of stats working in any other team sport than baseball either as baseball is a very individual team sport. Meaning it doesn't really matter who you play with, what system you play in, etc. etc. It's all down to you when you're up to bat trying to hit that ball, or trying to catch the ball. You could put Mike Trout(best player in baseball) on the worst team and he'd have basically the same numbers. I don't think you could say that for any other sport.

I know what you mean, but the world has moved on from moneyball. It really, really has and I can tell you for a fact that teams are finding angles and making progress based on statistical work like this, and have been for a decade or more.

PSG are signed to Statsbomb. Liverpool have an advanced analytics department and use it heavily in scouting which is v.clearly paying off. City have been using it since Mancini and beyond. Almost every team in the top flight is, much like almost every shop you visit online or walk through the door is - what matters is the level of buy-in and joined up thinking across heads of departments.

Nobody is saying it runs football, but denying its value and importance at this point is starting to look like staring facts in the face imo.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

November 21, 2018, 06:51:13 AM
Reply #574
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pjk

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Sorry just to jump back to this - there are gaps, as there are in any quant work, you are trying to turn life and sport and art and beauty into numbers and extract meaningful learnings without blowing your brains out - however, there is a huge amount of work going into finding these gaps, and working on the models etc.

It’s unfair and frankly a bit daft to suggest they are ignored or not worth the paper they are printed on.



What's a quant work?
Steinbeck's maxim: “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”.

November 21, 2018, 11:56:22 AM
Reply #575
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Toddacelli


    

I'm only here for the cladding/Bramley Moore Dock updates


November 22, 2018, 02:24:26 AM
Reply #576
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eyesalwaysblue


"To Mansini and beyond"...love it
I still despise Clive Thomas..

November 22, 2018, 02:30:28 AM
Reply #577
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brap2

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Soccernomics had a chapter on Moyes at Everton.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

November 24, 2018, 04:26:57 PM
Reply #578
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stirlingblue



November 24, 2018, 04:58:38 PM
Reply #579
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sam of the south


Soccernomics had a chapter on Moyes at Everton.

Oh really, what was the summary?

Watched Rio Ferdinand talking about him the other day, it was all very familiar.
“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.”
Henry David Thoreau

November 24, 2018, 07:43:11 PM
Reply #580
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brap2

NSNO Subscriber
Oh really, what was the summary?

Watched Rio Ferdinand talking about him the other day, it was all very familiar.

That, similar to Allardyce, he was a fairly early adopter of analytics. Sprints etc.

Had a department set up to scout upcoming opponents, interestingly they pointed out he, or his team, would look for not the player that caused problems, but the player who would most often play the passes to the player who causes problems. I guess that kind of work now is called xgchain or xgbuildup? Not 100% familiar with it but it makes sense I guess.

You could say what we did to Jorginho isn’t a million miles away. Shut down the conductor kind of thing.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

November 24, 2018, 07:57:18 PM
Reply #581
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sam of the south


That, similar to Allardyce, he was a fairly early adopter of analytics. Sprints etc.

Had a department set up to scout upcoming opponents, interestingly they pointed out he, or his team, would look for not the player that caused problems, but the player who would most often play the passes to the player who causes problems. I guess that kind of work now is called xgchain or xgbuildup? Not 100% familiar with it but it makes sense I guess.

You could say what we did to Jorginho isn’t a million miles away. Shut down the conductor kind of thing.

Very interesting.

Makes a lot of our displays under him make more sense now.
“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.”
Henry David Thoreau

November 25, 2018, 02:36:37 AM
Reply #582
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Shogun

Administrator
I was concerned after taking one point from Huddersfield and West Ham at home and especially the former who frustrated us.

Since then:

Everton 3-0 Fulham
Everton 2-0 Crystal Palace
Everton 3-1 Brighton
Everton 1-0 Cardiff

Those sort of results give us a great foundation and there’s no reason we can’t win our next two at home against Newcastle and Watford.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 02:37:42 AM by Shogun »

November 25, 2018, 07:12:41 PM
Reply #583
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TheRam

NSNO Subscriber
Still want Kenny in for Coleman.

Hey there mister can you tell me what happened to the seeds I've sown
Can you give me a reason sir as to why they've never grown

November 25, 2018, 07:18:39 PM
Reply #584
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Bluedylan


We need to revamp the right hand side of the team over time.

When Gana drifts out to the right, and it ends up being a triangle of Coleman-Gana-Walcott, it looks fucking awful. Three players who play in straight lines, and have no subtlety to their game at all.
''In the words of the prophet, today you sell your ring, tomorrow your watch, next week your chain and in 77 days, you won't have eyes to cry with''

Accattone - Pier Paolo Pasolini.