November 15, 2019, 04:02:17 AM

Author Topic: Short-Termism  (Read 2507 times)

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November 11, 2019, 03:11:45 AM
Reply #30
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arteta4spain


But whilst you mention them....

How long has it taken Klopp to get to where they are now, and with only one trophy in the bag?
Gone from scraping into the top four to genuine league contenders. As much as I canít stand him, heíd be perfect here. Heís transformed them immeasurably.
Itís been mentioned about the cycle of the board with the hiring and firing and yes, we do tend to use the same cycle and youíd think with the amount of times this has backfired that thereíd be more caution to who we take on and try to look at someone different.
But I think the whole clubs ethos needs a change. Weíre always ďplucky little EvertonĒ and despite Moshiri being here now weíve not been able to shrug that off.
Itís like a dark cloud above us, and the mentality of the players, no matter who we bring in, is weak. Is it down to the players, the management or the board? Iím not saying the board have influence on the team, but they look at who they want to appoint and look at howl they will implement their ideas when weíre getting beat to see how the manager will pick the players up after a defeat/s and in game management to get them to be more resilient.
Itís so infuriating as Iím not sure where to begin to eradicate this defeatist attitude.


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November 11, 2019, 03:41:33 AM
Reply #31
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The Analog Kid


Gone from scraping into the top four to genuine league contenders. As much as I canít stand him, heíd be perfect here. Heís transformed them immeasurably.
Itís been mentioned about the cycle of the board with the hiring and firing and yes, we do tend to use the same cycle and youíd think with the amount of times this has backfired that thereíd be more caution to who we take on and try to look at someone different.
But I think the whole clubs ethos needs a change. Weíre always ďplucky little EvertonĒ and despite Moshiri being here now weíve not been able to shrug that off.
Itís like a dark cloud above us, and the mentality of the players, no matter who we bring in, is weak. Is it down to the players, the management or the board? Iím not saying the board have influence on the team, but they look at who they want to appoint and look at howl they will implement their ideas when weíre getting beat to see how the manager will pick the players up after a defeat/s and in game management to get them to be more resilient.
Itís so infuriating as Iím not sure where to begin to eradicate this defeatist attitude.


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They've been "genuine contenders" for quite a few seasons now, haven't they? They were regular top 4 before his arrival, yet they seem to spontaneously combustion every year, this year they seem to be getting even more of a rub of the green in terms of decisions but they still seem to be conceding more. They're not as invincible as people think.

They only lost one last season and still couldn't make it, throwing away comfortable points cushions.

It's still early days, time for them to fall to their usual shitty draws.

Their December is quite chocker...

We shall see.

*oh, as for Klopp being perfect at Everton... fuck that, he's soiled goods now.

November 11, 2019, 04:33:11 AM
Reply #32
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Bob Sacamano

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The lack of standards is quite shocking I must say.


November 11, 2019, 06:16:20 AM
Reply #33
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YankeeBlue214


They've been "genuine contenders" for quite a few seasons now, haven't they? They were regular top 4 before his arrival, yet they seem to spontaneously combustion every year, this year they seem to be getting even more of a rub of the green in terms of decisions but they still seem to be conceding more. They're not as invincible as people think.

They only lost one last season and still couldn't make it, throwing away comfortable points cushions.

It's still early days, time for them to fall to their usual shitty draws.

Their December is quite chocker...

We shall see.

*oh, as for Klopp being perfect at Everton... fuck that, he's soiled goods now.

That's not entirely true. Except for 1-2 top 4 finishes, they were more regularly around 6th-8th. At least for 4-5 years. Even Klopp's first couple years they only finished 6th, then 8th. I'm not certain but I believe the question was asked to show that not even he came right in and had instant success.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
- George Santayana

November 11, 2019, 07:06:09 AM
Reply #34
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brap2

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Instant success is one thing but it is not unfair to want progress or signs that indicate progress is coming.

I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

November 11, 2019, 04:49:24 PM
Reply #35
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TheRam

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Nah, Ram has standards clearly. He doesn't just finger anyone for example.

Seriously though, Ram's being quite reasonable and balanced on Silva. He sees the failings, but he's also not overreacting, and probably doesn't want us to lurch around for another average manager, and waste another 1-2 years before that goes tits up. He's just preaching a bit of caution and patience. I would let Silva go personally, on balance, but only if a strong candidate has been identified. If it's for Hughes/Moyes or someone of that ilk, we might as well hang on to Silva for now.

Thatís exactly my thinking.

Iím desperate for him to do well so we donít have to dive into the Mark Hughes/David Moyes rabbit hole because that is the alternative to keeping him.

People seem to think we can go get mourinho and everything will be great in a few weeks. Itís not going to be like that.

I was saying the same last season when people wanted to give him the boot during that horrid run. There were signs of progress and a run of results was just around the corner and Iím hoping we see the same again.

If thatís a lack of standards then sound. Personally think sometimes you just have to accept your hand and not press reset after a bad run of results. Just plod along and asses the situation at the end of the season.

People seem to have a hard time reacting to anything that isnít ďOMG SILVA OUTĒ

« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 04:51:23 PM by TheRam »
Hey there mister can you tell me what happened to the seeds I've sown
Can you give me a reason sir as to why they've never grown


November 11, 2019, 05:03:53 PM
Reply #36
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KoemansNumberTens


Thatís exactly my thinking.

Iím desperate for him to do well so we donít have to dive into the Mark Hughes/David Moyes rabbit hole because that is the alternative to keeping him.

People seem to think we can go get mourinho and everything will be great in a few weeks. Itís not going to be like that.

I was saying the same last season when people wanted to give him the boot during that horrid run. There were signs of progress and a run of results was just around the corner and Iím hoping we see the same again.

If thatís a lack of standards then sound. Personally think sometimes you just have to accept your hand and not press reset after a bad run of results. Just plod along and asses the situation at the end of the season.

People seem to have a hard time reacting to anything that isnít ďOMG SILVA OUTĒ



Does a run of results even matter if it doesnít lead to a long term upturn. We had a run of results last season but we arenít now a better team for them.

November 11, 2019, 06:26:53 PM
Reply #37
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TheRam

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Does a run of results even matter if it doesn’t lead to a long term upturn. We had a run of results last season but we aren’t now a better team for them.

It matters when people are calling for him to get the boot without thinking of the consequences.

A lot of people would've binned him after the Burnley game. Since then we've got 7 point from 4 games, and steadied the ship at least.

We should avoid sacking a manager in the middle of the season at all costs.
Hey there mister can you tell me what happened to the seeds I've sown
Can you give me a reason sir as to why they've never grown

November 11, 2019, 06:46:07 PM
Reply #38
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dazfrancis


Bemoaning other people's "standards" whilst calling for Moyes or Hughes to be given the managers job is internet/Football Manager.

There is no point sacking Silva right now if we're going to waste another 2 years on what will only turn out to be a stop gap

November 11, 2019, 07:10:21 PM
Reply #39
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GLewis

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It matters when people are calling for him to get the boot without thinking of the consequences.

A lot of people would've binned him after the Burnley game. Since then we've got 7 point from 4 games, and steadied the ship at least.

We should avoid sacking a manager in the middle of the season at all costs.

Yes.

If bad appointments are a concern (as @KoemansNumberTens cites often) then regular mass panics and demands that someone is given the boot only a few months into their time here, or in this case only a few games into the season are more likely to lead to poor decisions as everything is more constricted (the reduced options, someone having to come in mid season etc).

Itís easy to just assume thereís bound to be someone available who is demonstrably better and will actually be better.

November 11, 2019, 07:52:30 PM
Reply #40
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Evertonian in NC


It matters when people are calling for him to get the boot without thinking of the consequences.

A lot of people would've binned him after the Burnley game. Since then we've got 7 point from 4 games, and steadied the ship at least.

We should avoid sacking a manager in the middle of the season at all costs.

Silva is at least a semi-competent professional, not some kind of clown.  As long as he hasn't lost the dressing room (he clearly hasn't), let him finish the season.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

November 11, 2019, 08:21:17 PM
Reply #41
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KoemansNumberTens


Iím really not against him finishing the season. It does seem that the majority of us now consider him to be our temporary manager.

Does anyone really see him surviving much longer than the summer? With only a year left on his contract it would be an odd situation for both him and the club.

November 11, 2019, 08:30:46 PM
Reply #42
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Evertonian in NC


Iím really not against him finishing the season. It does seem that the majority of us now consider him to be our temporary manager.

Does anyone really see him surviving much longer than the summer? With only a year left on his contract it would be an odd situation for both him and the club.

I'd say there's maybe a 10% chance he turns the corner and is here next season.  I can hope for it (changing managers is almost always disruptive) without expecting it.  I just see a big fat zero as to the downside of letting him finish the season.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

November 11, 2019, 08:36:31 PM
Reply #43
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YankeeBlue214


Iím really not against him finishing the season. It does seem that the majority of us now consider him to be our temporary manager.

Does anyone really see him surviving much longer than the summer? With only a year left on his contract it would be an odd situation for both him and the club.

IMO if he somehow manages to turn this season way the fuck around and qualifies for Europe then he'll be here for the start of next at minimum.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
- George Santayana

November 11, 2019, 08:49:12 PM
Reply #44
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Omar


Is someone looking for a new manager?

You come at the king, you best not miss.