brap2 wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2026 7:41 pm
They were in the championship last season and played us off the park.
Young side, striker who’s 24. Diarra 22. Lo Fee 26 okay but none of them a jot of Prem Experience. Exciting project with expectation.
They certainly didn't play us of the park. It was more like two teams playing dreadful turgid football throughout with a couple of glaring errors leading to goals.
Let's not forget this is the same Sunderland who have a 5 year net spend of €150m more than us, with 4 of those sitting in the Championship.
Whilst they've had an opportunity to settle and build a squad for a challenge, we (apart from the last window) have had to all but gut ours and start again; backroom and players.
It might not feel like it today but we're now an exciting project with expectation too, and apparently a healthy dose of over-expectation within the fanbase because we happened unexpectedly to sniff Europe/midtable, where two wins (equivalent to a few correct VAR calls) separates 6th and 13th.
Cods wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2026 10:07 pm
They certainly didn't play us of the park. It was more like two teams playing dreadful turgid football throughout with a couple of glaring errors leading to goals.
Let's not forget this is the same Sunderland who have a 5 year net spend of €150m more than us, with 4 of those sitting in the Championship.
Whilst they've had an opportunity to settle and build a squad for a challenge, we (apart from the last window) have had to all but gut ours and start again; backroom and players.
It might not feel like it today but we're now an exciting project with expectation too, and apparently a healthy dose of over-expectation within the fanbase because we happened unexpectedly to sniff Europe/midtable, where two wins (equivalent to a few correct VAR calls) separates 6th and 13th.
Wow 150m over 5 years?! What riches, what spoils.
Over-expectation? Talking like a massive loser sadly, not for me.
Just ran out of steam, the 3, 90+ minute goals on the bounce in crucial games, its hard to get back up off the floor and play at the intensity required after that. Add to that the shitty VAR decisions, marginal offside in the derby when we're flying, it was fine margins. Sunderland looked like we'd thrown the towel in mentally as a result.
But, we were touching Champs League with 6 games to go and yes we shit the bed on the run in, but... we were touching Champs League with 6 games to go! Thats a huge uptick in form. This league can and has cost teams better than us over a 6 game period, its cruel but I've enjoyed this year over all.
Happy to see him for another year, as we continue to rehabilitate and strengthen.
brap2 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2026 11:04 pm
Wow 150m over 5 years?! What riches, what spoils.
Over-expectation? Talking like a massive loser sadly, not for me.
That's the point though. They've spent 4 of the 5 years *not* in the league, and *still* have had the capacity to spend 150m more than us. As had most clubs bar 3 or 4 *across Europe* less than 12 months ago. We can't even talk about the excesses that the club sitting above us on goal difference have had. Try their shoes.
There's the reality and context of the situation that's being missed here I feel.
Do I want us to make Europe? Of course. I also would like us to win the league next season.
Does what I think make a difference to what will happen?
The reality of where we are is simply that. We were all a bit suprised we tonked Chelsea and had a sniff. Problem is we forget where we were, what we were facing a few months earlier.
Finishing mid table is pretty much where I thought we'd finish, and it seems about right. If thats loser mentality then I'm not sure you get what I'm saying.
brap2 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2026 11:04 pm
Wow 150m over 5 years?! What riches, what spoils.
Over-expectation? Talking like a massive loser sadly, not for me.
I think the point is that, if €150m is so derisively low, then what does it say that it's still blown us out of the park?
That kind of chronic underspend doesn't get fixed in 1 window.
But, as @777Kidnappings has just said, the entire model of the club is ill suited to actually spending money at the moment.
Moyes will stay. I was against him so much that BD had to pull me up on being too relentless. I knew he would be staying back in January though, no matter what.
The noises about "keeping their powder dry" and only bringing in George on loan made me realise the club actually appreciates a season of abject irrelevancy and I made my peace with it.
I think the way we've gone about the past few games is what's lost people. The form itself has been shit, but the intense frustration felt at watching us play the same players every week during it has been the issue.
If we'd just hit a bad patch of form and Moyes had started George, brought on Dibling, even started Coleman and moved JOB central (even if it meant reverting back to Jake at RB after 20 mins)... Just not been so stubborn to something that stopped working, then I don't think we'd be having these conversations.
Luck has been massively against us... We'd have 5 points more had VAR not screwed us, and had Tim not cramped up off the pitch as City were about to have a corner, Alcaraz wouldn't have been brought on and Doku wouldn't have had a free shot at goal.
Those 7 points lost via Tim going off and VAR would have us joint 6th on 56 points.
Problem is it still feels like we've thrown the season away because Moyes is too stubborn, won't change things, and plays square pegs in round holes.
Hard to really argue against that even if in reality other factors have cost us equally as much.
Talk about shoulda woulda coulda all you like, that’s not what I’m even talking about here. I think he’s done OK this year and has probably done what I expected based on the shit squad.
Is it disappointing that we missed an opportunity, yeah for sure but also understandable.
Is the style of play disappointing? Yeah for sure but also understandable.
Do I have my frustrations over lack of trust in his squad and inability to find solutions and running players into the ground, playing favourites, favouring conservative players who fit a shape, approach to key games etc, yep all part of the frustrations, but tbh all part of the expectation of what Moyes will be like as a manager and it’s the trade off for safety and solid footing.
My point is - we are going to look at the next project at some point. Moyes has a year left. So you’re not giving him another year, he’s got another year, you’re likely giving him another 2 years+.
It’s going to have to be another £150-£200m summer. Is it better for the future of the club that we buy players this summer for Moyes, or for another manager?
Ultimately Angus Kinnear has said ‘we knew this was a two summer project’ which clearly implies a) there’s an objective for Moyes to achieve b) he’s targeted to achieve it over two summers and finally c) he hasn’t achieved it yet - so he’s definitely staying regardless.
Does he get another contract? If so does that mean it’s now a three summer project? Or is it two summers and his next target is coming soon, which means he’s got the contract extension to achieve his next target before he’s even achieved his first one!
What that objective is is anyone’s guess. If I personally had to guess I would say - it’s empty nonsense that means we’re okay for now and not in trouble we need to spend another £150m to stay still.
So I don’t blame anyone for saying let’s keep the ship steady and calm and have another year with no relegation worries, because that’s what the club is going to be doing.
MPLS Toffee wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2026 9:44 pm
I honestly don't mind if the owner is emotionally disconnected. If everything he does is on business, he will still be focused on keeping us up, getting us into europe, and developing young players to sell. All purposes we share.
Rather that than an overly emotionally connected Chairman like Bill.
If he stays he is one poor home performance/bad run away from the fanbase turning on him.
Every blue I speak to is saying the same thing. It feels like Groundhog Day with this manager and when we see other teams playing better football it shouldn't feel unreasonable to want to see some of that.
I'm not sure many fans want to see another season of the same pragmatic football, prioritising points over progress and ultimately achieving none.
I dont see us getting European football next season without an amazing transfer window
Think we are in a significantly worse state now than we were this time last year and theres at least 5 clubs who are going to be significantly better next season
I dont think europe is a remotely realistic target for next season
I’d obviously love European football, but that’s not the be-all and end-all for me — I just want to watch better football.
I’m really bored of watching us at the moment. Most games feel like 90 minutes of the opposition attacking while we defend for our lives. I’m sick of seeing promoted teams, or teams with new managers, come in and immediately play better football and dominate us.
People keep saying Moyes needs time, but other clubs have rebuilt quickly and still managed to play attractive football. Sunderland brought in 14 players over the summer and still looked far better going forward than we do — and it’s not just Sunderland. Plenty of teams do, even Wolves.
This squad is easily capable of playing better, more attractive football than the tripe we’re being served up week after week. It must be draining for the attacking players too, because it feels like 90% of training is focused on stopping the opposition, with the other 10% spent on set pieces. It’s just really boring to watch.
777Kidnappings wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2026 9:02 am
I dont see us getting European football next season without an amazing transfer window
Think we are in a significantly worse state now than we were this time last year and theres at least 5 clubs who are going to be significantly better next season
I dont think europe is a remotely realistic target for next season
How are we in a worse state now that this time last year?
And how isn’t it a realistic target for next season when we are three points off European football going into the last game?
Should be the bare minimum expectation for us these days.
