David Moyes

[brap2]

Circa 21st March... and if you weren't posting them...you were liking them

I'm fucked off too, but I'm just going to enjoy the world cup and see what next season brings. Silas has pitched it right for me, Europe is the clear objective next year, no excuses and if we dont get it, I'll make you a banner myself.

He’s done a good job. Stability achieved.

I’m not saying get the bedsheets out, I’m saying what’s the project?

[Audrey Horne]

Yeah I'm not sure who is saying to make banners and book planes.

It's just some people aren't satisfied with this. And would prefer change now instead of mid season next year.

It's ok to question things, we don't have to just accept this.

[Matt1878]

Yeah I'm not sure who is saying to make banners and book planes.

It's just some people aren't satisfied with this. And would prefer change now instead of mid season next year.

It's ok to question things, we don't have to just accept this.

So what we're saying is we want him "out", but not "out out".

Wasnt being litteral about banners really, just taking the poll to its logical conclusion. I'm suprised over 50% would gladly see him gone already. Either way, I'm not wasting my Egyptian cotton bed sheets on anyone.

[Goaljira]

Circa 21st March... and if you weren't posting them...you were liking them

I'm fucked off too, but I'm just going to enjoy the world cup and see what next season brings. Silas has pitched it right for me, Europe is the clear objective next year, no excuses and if we dont get it, I'll make you a banner myself.

Imagine its a sales role. You have your targets for the year. Q1-Q2, you got some new accounts[Away wins] but lost some long standing accounts[Home wins], but ended up tracking to forecast and it was fine. A lot of focus was drawn by a new handsome member of the sales team poached from a regional rival.

Q3 you out performed. Brought in new accounts and were smashing the yearly forecast. You'd hit the lower end of your targets by Easter and the business was excited at the prospect of pushing on towards new European markets. The loss in this period of the new sales head went under the radar by the return of a young member of the lead generation team from long term sickness to solidify things at the back.

Q4 you shit the bed. The lead generator had a relapse and exited the business temporarily again, and we don't know if he can ever be relied on long term. This meant a return of two old school lead generators with no new ideas.

You lost new customers that seemed impossible to miss from leading positions, you reverted to pragmatic sales techniques that you've used for 20 years and everyone is bored shitless by. Questions start to be asked when due to staff Holidays by members of your core team staff are brought in from admin roles you'd pushed them aside into and outperform your team.

You end the year with no growth in year on year performance, and the Q3 momentum completely lost. You've hit your base targets without worry, but you've not excelled.

Is the business happy that this is where we will be forever?

Theres talk you want to recruit heads from your old employers, but the Head of Commercial wants to go younger, with more modern platforms. If they let you bring in your guys then its a commitment to mediocrity. If they go in the HoC's direction and you don't use them for the key tenders because you think they lack experience, but they don't get experience if you don't give them a chance.

Which way does the MD go?

[Bluedylan1]

I've been one of the biggest pro-Moyes voices on the forum, and even I think it's not unreasonable to question the manager's position after the last few weeks. It's certainly not unreasonable to have the conversation.

I still think Moyes is a very good manager, and I think he's an excellent Everton manager. I think he's been the ideal pair of hands to steer us to safety in our final season at Goodison, and allow us to actually enjoy that and not be riddled with anxiety about relegation. That was a BIG deal, we shouldn't forget.

We were on our arses when Dyche lost his nerve and realised the club was far too big and historied for his gaslighting operation to work. We were in a very precarious position when Moyes arrived, and the wrong appointment there (possibly Graham Potter in that situation?) could've easily seen us in another relegation tailspin.

And for the vast majority of this season, I think it's fair to say he's overachieved with what are still very limited resources, and gaping holes in the squad. We were 3 points off a Champs League place on April 10th. Massive credit. Even a semi-ok finish to the season from there sees us get Europe comfortably.

And then we've had an absolutely disastrous 6 games since then. A complete implosion. Worse than any of us could've possibly imagined 6 games ago, even with our most pessimistic hats on.

So then the real question is - is it fair to write off 15 months of excellent work for 6 terrible games (when it really mattered!) where the whole thing has horribly imploded and all the best qualities of the manager have receded into the background, and a number of his worst instincts and tendencies have come back to the fore?

I am undecided on that. I have mixed feelings. Maybe it is fair to do that, because the 6 games were SO disastrous and because we're all inching closer to death.

I think there's every chance we buy some better players in the summer under Moyes, we look a better proposition next season with a more balanced squad and we could qualify for Europe. I think that's entirely possible and plausible. On the other hand, if the transfers go the other way, could we end up with another stale lower mid table season, and quite a toxic atmosphere? Absolutely we could.

If we bring Iraola in say, talented as he is, we don't have the squad to play his football. Not even close to it. It would need a big overhaul of playing staff, and lots of patience. Off the top of my head players who could play his style would be - Branthwaite, Garner, Rohl, Iroegbunam, KDH, Ndiaye, Dibling, George, Barry. The entire defence would need an overhaul. We'd have to remodel the midfield and attack over a few transfer windows. It would be a bit of a ''rip it up and start again'' option. Are our fanbase ready for that? Could our fanbase handle not winning until the 10th game of the season, like he did at Bournemouth, while he works on pressing traps and overloads?

That's not to say we shouldn't go for him now, or in the near future. I'm just posing the question, and pointing out that Iraola doesn't just come in and turn us into a slick, energetic attacking team without a fair bit of money being spent, and a fair bit of patience from the club and fanbase. He's not a pragmatist, he's an idealist. Those managers take time, and often you go backwards for a while before you move forwards.

So there's genuine pros and cons either way.

Overall, I think it's overwhelmingly likely we keep Moyes, whether we all agree with that or not. Angus Kinnear's comments pretty much indicated that. So we'd better get the summer transfers right. No ifs, buts or maybes. If I see a Soucek or a Trippier come through the door, get the manager gone for me and sink the Hill-Dickinson in the Mersey. If Keane or McNeil or Mykolenko starts the first game of next season, nuke the whole operation from orbit and erase us from the history books.

[StirlingBlue]

One thing that has gone under the radar this year is how poor our home form has been - and I would hope that any manager we do bring in would be looking to address that by playing some front foot attacking football.

It's hard to get a great atmosphere going watching Moyes football apart from the 5/6 games a year where we're doing a backs to the wall job against a "big" side. As soon as we're in games where we should win the negativity of Moyes' "don't lose" style of football absolutely tanks the home atmosphere.

[StirlingBlue]

He doesnt get any credit for the good work proceeding those 2 months?

It's a little bit black and white for me, no room for nuance or balance when he goes from a saviour to a villain in 6 games.

I think we can all acknowledge what a shit show we were when Moyes stepped in and steadied the ship, but he's been here for a season and a half and we're on a downward trajectory not an upward one.

You'd hope that over time a manager should see a team gradually improving, but it seems to me that we're getting worse rather than better. Even ignoring the results the football has been pretty insipid since the early season Grealish renaissance and we're back to relying on individual moments and set pieces to score goals rather than looking like we have a repeatable gameplan - it's a big red flag for me going into a summer where we're probably going to spend £75m+

[Paddockoldie]

As always, BD sums it up nicely. I'm conflicted too.. I want to back him, but some decisions qualify for Einstein's definition of insanity. Harrison on the wing, JOB at RB despite getting targeted in the last 6 games... how doesn't he see it? Ndiaye is flogged to death and I think he'll consider his options over the summer if he's fighting alone because we have no FB... frustrating all round. His subs are puzzling, especially so late in a game. No tactical changes unless he has no choice. I worry he'll recruit experience, but aged, because he trusts them. Pre season I want to see Aznou, Harrison, that young striker and Rohl in his best position. I want McNeil, Mykolenko, Keane and dare I say Tarkowski gone, because it's every week now. Maybe it's because of Branthwaite is out, but we should be thinking long term. So much to do, so bringing in a new guy would be a huge risk right now. Give Moyes next season, backed and see where we end. If no better, get rid.

[brap2]

So what we're saying is we want him "out", but not "out out".

Wasnt being litteral about banners really, just taking the poll to its logical conclusion. I'm suprised over 50% would gladly see him gone already. Either way, I'm not wasting my Egyptian cotton bed sheets on anyone.

I’m surprised there’s not more call for change.

Again not because he’s done badly or because he’s going to take us down, but because it makes sense.

We’re stable. Now what? Give him another contract and commit to David Moyes or move on.

For once we’d be changing managers without having to be 17th first.

[Indiantoffee75]

I think some will be in for massive disappointment.

Every chance a Soucek/Trippier or similar comes in.

One of Keane and Myko will most likely start the season in my opinion. I'd say the latter.

Personally, I think it'll be a difficult window to attract players in that can ellevate us to another level. No Europe and manager who plays conservative football.

[brap2]

Yeah I mean, the club have said they back him and ‘value his stability’ (loser talk). Bobble has said they back him and think he ‘buys well’ and ‘over achieves with what he has to work with’ which should all in all tell you something about the level of ambition we are talking about here.

[AjaxAndy]

I'd say until the last 6 games he did over achieve with what he had at his disposal tbf. It's just unfortunately our form nosedived and now we're looking at a poor league placement as a result.

[Shogun]

I'm not sure the sporting director's words hold that much weight. Kinnear is basically there to keep things ticking along but if the Friedkins decide something different then there's not much he can say to change that.

I'll take some snippets from this article when they sacked Mourinho

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... ts-opinion

Roma's decision to sack Jose Mourinho was taken by club owners the Friedkin family late Monday and communicated to the manager -- and the world, which had turned a far greater spotlight on the club since his arrival in 2021 -- before training on Tuesday morning.

His contract was expiring in June and, while he had repeatedly indicated that he was happy to extend it, the club had put all discussion on hold until the end of the season. That's the sort of timing that makes you wonder why they couldn't have waited, and leaves you to conclude there must have been a reason to act now.

Mourinho wasn't sacked because he had lost the dressing room or because fans were calling for his head: while support for him had cooled among portions of the fan base, especially on social media and Rome's omnipresent sports radio stations, the match-going supporters squarely (and noisily) continued to back him. Rather, he's gone because the Friedkins are businessmen, and they made a business decision.

According to Swiss Ramble, Roma lost €184 million ($200m) in 2020-21 and €219m ($238.1m) the following year, Mourinho's first at the club. The record losses in 2021-22, when they were among the biggest net spenders on transfers in Europe, meant they breached UEFA's Financial Fair Play regulations and were put under a settlement agreement, which restricted their spending.

To salvage this campaign Roma need to qualify for the Champions League.

Maybe Mourinho could have gotten it done, but then that would have presented a different issue. Since his contract was expiring and they weren't going to discuss a new one until the end of the season, it would have meant negotiating a new deal with Mourinho enjoying all the leverage of Champions League qualification. And that would have meant either an even-more onerous contract (both in terms of wages and power to the manager) or Mourinho going elsewhere, leaving behind him no compensation and an enraged fan base.

Best to play the percentages, then, and make a clean break. Club legend Daniele De Rossi steps in as interim replacement and, given his relationship with the fan base, you would assume he will get their support.

----

Does that sound like a group of owners that are happy to have a £100m net spend last summer and finish 1-4 points greater off in the table without qualifying for Europe?

Could they invest in Moyes again and potentially get Europe next season? Maybe. Is the percentage play to sack him and get Iraola in now? Probably.

Moyes is in trouble I think.

[Raptor]

I'd say until the last 6 games he did over achieve with what he had at his disposal tbf. It's just unfortunately our form nosedived and now we're looking at a poor league placement as a result.

I agree he did overachieve, but as I previously said, I'm not sure how much of that was luck Vs managerial skill.
A lot of the results we got, especially away, haven't been because we created loads of chances or dominated teams, on the face of it, it was more good fortune, or poor finishing from the opposition, or exceptional keeping from Pickford. The stats would probably indicate the recent 6 results are more of a coming home to roost with regards to the level of performance that has been put in this season, just earlier on this level was masked by the result.
You can easily argue who cares as the results were there and that's what matters, but I'm not sure it was ever sustainable to continue winning in the manner we were

[NickNack]

I don’t think we’re anything like stable just yet. I think Moyes should get next season then see where we are. This summer is the first proper summer window with everyone established in their positions so let’s see how they do.

There needs to be a massive improvement all round, no doubt about that but it’s not like Moyes isn’t capable of achieving better.