Financial Fairplay Investigation - Further 2 points deducted.

[dsaund]

Or, as mentioned the fact that they seemingly had no framework for enforcement these rules, did I read correctly that they came up with these punishment guidelines relatively recently?

They came up with the punishment guidelines in August this year, after they were already prosecuting the case.

So they effectively tried someone for a crime, and mid way through the trial, they made up a completely arbitrary punishment for that crime.

Surely stuff like that can't stand up under appeal?

That will go a long way to explain why the independent panel went out of their way to say they were specifically ignoring the PLs sentencing guidelines as it would invalidate the powers of the panel.
And then, coincidentally, plumped for the exact same points deduction as the PL had recommended. But without specifying how they came to it.

This is the thing that has bothered me the most about it. I read through the entire 41 page transcript of the hearing. The commission gives the reasoning for why the PL asked for 10 points (6 for the breach, 1 for every additional 5m over), says they won’t be swayed or influenced by it and then hands down 10 points with zero explanation for why they settled on the number.

I realise we’ve breached and don’t expect no punishment, but this feels unjust. Especially when it’s been decided there was no sporting advantage. Why would the punishment be a sporting disadvantage? That suggests they’ve tried to balance the scales as though the overspending helped us

[Paddockoldie]

Something stinks here. The same panel being allowed to judge compensation claims is totally unfair and could potentially scupper the club and put us into administration. We've pissed someone off

[Cereal Killer]

This was always going to go to CAS, wouldn’t worry about the panel “reviewing” it again

[Cozzie]

The appeal isn't going to he heard by the same panel, that's just madness.

Think people are getting confused, it's the same panel that get to decide about the clubs suing us.

[BlueDoom]

And that is also madness and fails conflict of interest values.

[Escla]

This was always going to go to CAS, wouldn’t worry about the panel “reviewing” it again

Apparently that’s not an option.

If Everton were to lose their appeal, is there anything else they could do to have it overturned?

The decision of the appeal's board is final - except in unusual circumstances, such as serious errors being made by the commission.

For example, if they got the maths significantly wrong. The difficulty Everton have got with an appeal is that they have already admitted they are guilty.

In appealing, what they want is to reduce the punishment rather than establish their innocence.

Everton would not be able to take the case any further, to the law courts or the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

[Gary1878]

Just listening to a few podcasts related to football and business, and a general summation (from my POV) is that we have three main areas for appeal -

1) The initial defence/mitigation proposed by Everton wasn't very strong, and could be made much stronger.
2) The numerous issues with the way the Prem and the commission has carried out this process.
and 3) The nature of the punishment, how seemingly ''made up'' it is, and how disproportionate it is.

I don't know enough about law to know which of those approaches is our strongest case for appeal, or whether it's even worth hitting them with all three. Maybe others can advise there?

Re point 1) I can’t imagine that the CEO and Finance Director refusing to attend has helped our case (or maybe it did ?)
Not sure about point 2) re point 3) I believe that as in a court of law when a case comes to trial the “sentencing guidelines”
are well established before any judgement is reached, you know whether you’re going to get a custodial sentence or not etc.
You can’t just find someone guilty then make up a sentence, I think we have a strong case here.

Exactly this.

It isn't about guilt at all. That has been admitted by Everton that there was a breach. The PL / panel decided to rule against us, which is fine. That's their prerogative. I, and many other people don't agree with it in terms of ignoring some of the mitigating circumstances, but it is what it is.

However, what is absolutely not ok is the sentencing and the level of punishment, which is completely inappropriate and disproportionate to the crime.

It sets a dangerous precedent for the whole league/football pyramid and every other FFP case going forwards. No one should be happy about this and every team should be protesting.

They have made a clear error with the amount of points deducted. They have already stated in their report that the breach was not deliberate and was unintentional. Well, what about a deliberate breach of the rules? What about a deliberate breach that goes £50m over FFP? Are you going to relegate a side for this? Why not just go into administration and take the 9 point deduction instead?

Corrupt is a strong word. In this particular case, could outside factors have affected the decision? Absolutely they could have. We know that political pressure from Government to form an independent regulator is there, and so rather than a punishment to fit the crime, we have been made an example of with a much harsher punishment than it otherwise should have been.

Reform is required in the Governance of Football, and it should start now.

[777Kidnappings]

This was always going to go to CAS, wouldn’t worry about the panel “reviewing” it again

Apparently that’s not an option.

If Everton were to lose their appeal, is there anything else they could do to have it overturned?

The decision of the appeal's board is final - except in unusual circumstances, such as serious errors being made by the commission.

For example, if they got the maths significantly wrong. The difficulty Everton have got with an appeal is that they have already admitted they are guilty.

In appealing, what they want is to reduce the punishment rather than establish their innocence.

Everton would not be able to take the case any further, to the law courts or the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

How can they stop us. I assume we've signed something to say that we wouldn't when joining the premier league?? Maybe this does mean compensation is decided by the premier league too.

Seems like such a clause should be illegal in itself. Gives the premier league free reign to do as they please. Our defence against compensation would be mainly that its the premier leagues issue not ours. Wonder how the premier league would rule on that

[Cods]

They came up with the punishment guidelines in August this year, after they were already prosecuting the case.

So they effectively tried someone for a crime, and mid way through the trial, they made up a completely arbitrary punishment for that crime.

Surely stuff like that can't stand up under appeal?

That will go a long way to explain why the independent panel went out of their way to say they were specifically ignoring the PLs sentencing guidelines as it would invalidate the powers of the panel.
And then, coincidentally, plumped for the exact same points deduction as the PL had recommended. But without specifying how they came to it.

This is the thing that has bothered me the most about it. I read through the entire 41 page transcript of the hearing. The commission gives the reasoning for why the PL asked for 10 points (6 for the breach, 1 for every additional 5m over), says they won’t be swayed or influenced by it and then hands down 10 points with zero explanation for why they settled on the number.

A little bit of light reading mate? Couldn't sleep

Ok so, 19.5m is technically only 3x extra '5millions', so surely 6 + 3(1) = 9 points at most?

Not shooting the messenger, either, but there seems to be little logic to it.

[Cozzie]

That will go a long way to explain why the independent panel went out of their way to say they were specifically ignoring the PLs sentencing guidelines as it would invalidate the powers of the panel.
And then, coincidentally, plumped for the exact same points deduction as the PL had recommended. But without specifying how they came to it.

This is the thing that has bothered me the most about it. I read through the entire 41 page transcript of the hearing. The commission gives the reasoning for why the PL asked for 10 points (6 for the breach, 1 for every additional 5m over), says they won’t be swayed or influenced by it and then hands down 10 points with zero explanation for why they settled on the number.

A little bit of light reading mate? Couldn't sleep

Ok so, 19.5m is technically only 3x extra '5millions', so surely 6 + 3(1) = 9 points at most?

Not shooting the messenger, either, but there seems to be little logic to it.

Weren't these also the guidelines for the EFL and not the PL as well? They've just basically thought fuck it and plucked 4 points out of thin air haven't they?

[weimaranerblues]

I've read loads of different things

So the appeals panel are who
a,) the ones who made the ruling b);new panel

The panel deciding on the possibility of compensation the same panel or a new one

[Gash]

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/3791977/ ... -is-united

[Trowel]

https://twitter.com/The1878s/status/1727340584447455454

[Escla]

I've read loads of different things

So the appeals panel are who
a,) the ones who made the ruling b);new panel

The panel deciding on the possibility of compensation the same panel or a new one

The appeals panel is new

The compensation panel is the same one that docked us 10 points and the KC on that panel said during the judgement that other clubs have a case for compensation so I guess the outcome is fairly predictable.

[777Kidnappings]

Really struggling to understand how they have a case for compensation. That means we'll be punished twice.

If burnley get 100m because they went down instead of us. What happens this season if Luton gain 100m if we are relegated?? We haven't actually benefitted anything over the 2 seasons

What would have happened had we stayed up these last 2 seasons by 15pts but went down this season because we lost points?? Would we then be due compensation.

It seems like If compensation needs paying it should come from the premier league not us