April 16, 2021, 01:14:11 AM

Author Topic: Aguero  (Read 2416 times)

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April 07, 2021, 02:36:40 PM
Reply #30
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Toddacelli

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I love the Aguero I remember. Not entirely sure that's the Aguero we'd be getting.

Fact of the matter is, at this point, he improves the squad next season. 10 mins to go, tight game, we need a winner/equalizer, who you bringing on? Coz King won't be here come summer. Bernard? Iwobi? One of our strikers back from loan - Tosun? Bolasie? Walcott?

He improves the squad. The question is - what will he cost? If it's reasonable and on a 1 or 2 year basis - this is an easy decision for me. It's not even as if we'd be filling another squad place with an old player because he's not really blocking anyone anyway. We haven't even named a full subs bench for some of these games.

If he's cheap, or reasonable - I'd take it. And the whole 'Recruitment Plan' would not be based on this one signing. This is a one-off chance to get a genuine goal machine and gamble he still has something left in the tank (which I think he does).
    

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April 07, 2021, 02:48:50 PM
Reply #31
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Bluedylan


I donít think thereís an argument to say our recruitment has been anything but poor myself.

Even with brands at the helm, itís been substandard. The summer of gbamin, kean, iwobi, Gomes and Delph really set us back and I have no faith in him or Carlo making the right calls in the summer if Iím being honest.



Yes, it's been really poor. Some will probably suggest that we're wallowing in misery, but I honestly think of it as looking the truth in the face, and seeing if we can learn from our mistakes and improve dramatically in the future.

Gbamin is just hugely unlucky, so I wouldn't include that in any of our issues.

Gomes, Iwobi and Delph are shocking buys, with foresight, midsight and hindsight. Just a terrible misuse of our resources.

Iwobi in particular. I recognise the lad has talent, but the recruitment process was so utterly dreadful. We literally pursued Zaha for a while, as a Moshiri vanity signing - then when it became clear that Palace weren't budging, we panicked right at the end of the window and bought someone with maybe vaguely similar characteristics (although not really). That is dreadful. You have a DoF to avoid doing stupid things like that.

Also, Moise Kean was bought to improve our forward options right now. Yes, in the future, but also in the here and now. And yes, we might eventually make some profit on him, but we've still been a £30m player short in the forward areas, so that has to go down as another failure.

Last summer's buys were a mixed bag. James was worth it. Doucoure has overall proved his worth (although it's not a longterm buy). Allan - good player, but I think you'd have to say it's not been a dramatic success and it's clearly not a longterm one again, and Godfrey looks a decent buy.

Marcel Brands and his team really need to deliver this summer. The jury is very much out. That is not relentless negativity. That's half a billion quid spent on transfers (not all by Brands obviously).
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 02:50:08 PM by Bluedylan »
''In the words of the prophet, today you sell your ring, tomorrow your watch, next week your chain and in 77 days, you won't have eyes to cry with''

Accattone - Pier Paolo Pasolini.

April 07, 2021, 07:19:59 PM
Reply #32
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Jamokachi


I donít think thereís an argument to say our recruitment has been anything but poor myself.

Even with brands at the helm, itís been substandard. The summer of gbamin, kean, iwobi, Gomes and Delph really set us back and I have no faith in him or Carlo making the right calls in the summer if Iím being honest.

You do flip-flop pretty regularly on this though, so a pinch of salt I guess. Not sure the the issues with many (bar Delph) of those signings extend beyond the players themselves and extenuating circumstances.


April 07, 2021, 07:34:23 PM
Reply #33
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TheRam

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You do flip-flop pretty regularly on this though, so a pinch of salt I guess. Not sure the the issues with many (bar Delph) of those signings extend beyond the players themselves and extenuating circumstances.

Flip flop? In what way?

I've always been underwhelmed by our recruitment over the years. I just don't take one side of the argument so will apply benefit of the doubt whilst think we can do better.

I mean, you can't look at our recruitment over the last three years and be impressed by it? £300m to stand still. At best it's solid and unspectacular. 
Hey there mister can you tell me what happened to the seeds I've sown
Can you give me a reason sir as to why they've never grown

April 07, 2021, 07:44:26 PM
Reply #34
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Jamokachi


Flip flop? In what way?

I've always been underwhelmed by our recruitment over the years. I just don't take one side of the argument so will apply benefit of the doubt whilst think we can do better.

I mean, you can't look at our recruitment over the last three years and be impressed by it? £300m to stand still. At best it's solid and unspectacular. 

In that sometimes you'll acknowledge the difficulties of the situation he was brought in to solve and then at other times you'll make statements like "The summer of gbamin, kean, iwobi, Gomes and Delph really set us back and I have no faith in him or Carlo making the right calls", which is a tad OTT.

April 07, 2021, 07:52:11 PM
Reply #35
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TheRam

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In that sometimes you'll acknowledge the difficulties of the situation he was brought in to solve and then at other times you'll make statements like "The summer of gbamin, kean, iwobi, Gomes and Delph really set us back and I have no faith in him or Carlo making the right calls", which is a tad OTT.

I think that's a reasonable way to look at things and not in any way OTT. That summer did set us back, it failed to address the midfield problem, it's left us short upfront for two season because Kean wasn't up to, it left us short out wide because we panic bought Iwobi with no plan of how he was to fit in and the Delph signing has gone completely as expected.



I don't have any faith in the recruitment.
Hey there mister can you tell me what happened to the seeds I've sown
Can you give me a reason sir as to why they've never grown


April 07, 2021, 08:03:17 PM
Reply #36
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Jamokachi


I think that's a reasonable way to look at things and not in any way OTT. That summer did set us back, it failed to address the midfield problem, it's left us short upfront for two season because Kean wasn't up to, it left us short out wide because we panic bought Iwobi with no plan of how he was to fit in and the Delph signing has gone completely as expected.



I don't have any faith in the recruitment.

It only failed to address the midfield because Gbamin basically died. There are 3 midfielders added there, 4 if you count Iwobi. We had Tosun on the books as well as DCL, so we added a young prospect. Doesn't seem so crazy?

I don't know where this Iwobi panic buy idea has come from?

Delph was unfortunately very predictable.

April 07, 2021, 08:18:29 PM
Reply #37
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Bluedylan


It only failed to address the midfield because Gbamin basically died. There are 3 midfielders added there, 4 if you count Iwobi.

I think the issue wasn't the number of bodies we got in, more than none of them were very good (exception for Gbamin obviously).

I don't know where this Iwobi panic buy idea has come from?

It stemmed from us chasing Zaha all summer, and not being able to agree a deal and then signing Iwobi, for a pretty sizeable fee, on deadline day, having not been linked with him seriously (that I can recall anyway). Does that not fit the exact description of a panic buy?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/08/everton-sign-alex-iwobi

Quote
Everton completed the late transfer of Alex Iwobi from Arsenal more than two hours after the transfer window closed on Thursday night having refused to meet Crystal Palaceís £100m valuation of Wilfried Zaha.

Everton switched their sights to Iwobi late in the transfer window having been frustrated in their long-running attempt to seal a club record deal for Zaha.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 08:19:52 PM by Bluedylan »
''In the words of the prophet, today you sell your ring, tomorrow your watch, next week your chain and in 77 days, you won't have eyes to cry with''

Accattone - Pier Paolo Pasolini.

April 07, 2021, 08:24:57 PM
Reply #38
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brap2

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The most worrying thing about that is the lengthy pursuit of 6 goal a year £100m Wilf Zaha.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

April 07, 2021, 08:33:10 PM
Reply #39
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TheRam

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Think I lost a lot of faith at the Delph signing and I've struggled to be convinced since then.

I can at least see a thought process on Iwobi and Kean, Gbamin was just bad luck. Delph though? You get a director of football to stop making those mistakes.
Hey there mister can you tell me what happened to the seeds I've sown
Can you give me a reason sir as to why they've never grown

April 07, 2021, 08:37:57 PM
Reply #40
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cantoffee


I think a lot of the signings can be rationalized at the time.

I do think we have an issue generating funds though. Previously we have sold Stones and Lukaku for big money and been able to reinvest in multiple areas of the squad. Obviously we did a poor job of that but at some point we will need to sell and reinvest again, we simply don't have the funds from other sources of income to buy our way up the table.

This will be harsh but a player like Digne who is at his peak we should be hoping someone comes in and pays us 50 million for him and reinvest those funds in a new LB and another area of need. We will need to make moves like that every few years unless we suddenly break into the top 4 and get a cash injection from CL footy.

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April 07, 2021, 08:40:58 PM
Reply #41
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KoemansNumberTens


Some of our best signings in recent years have been players who've made next to no impact. Lookman, vlasic and now Kean. We'll make a profit on all 3 of them. Close to doubling our money on the first 2 and neither of them on big contracts. Other than them digne and richarlison we'd lose money on every other deal. A lot we couldn't hope to shift given the contracts they are on

April 07, 2021, 08:50:48 PM
Reply #42
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YankeeBlue214

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I think a lot of the signings can be rationalized at the time.

I do think we have an issue generating funds though. Previously we have sold Stones and Lukaku for big money and been able to reinvest in multiple areas of the squad. Obviously we did a poor job of that but at some point we will need to sell and reinvest again, we simply don't have the funds from other sources of income to buy our way up the table.

This will be harsh but a player like Digne who is at his peak we should be hoping someone comes in and pays us 50 million for him and reinvest those funds in a new LB and another area of need. We will need to make moves like that every few years unless we suddenly break into the top 4 and get a cash injection from CL footy.

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Pretty much exactly this. No one currently at the club spent the money those 2 sales generated.

Plus, has anyone actually taken a look at revenue generated by the top clubs? It's 2,3, sometimes close to 4x the amount Everton generates. This limits us in an extreme capacity. Those clubs can take chances on signings and not matter if they don't pan out. I think some of our fans think we're City.

So now we have to hear 'don't sell our best players,' 'don't sign anyone in the 2nd half of their career,' and of course, 'win right now.'

Also ignored is the fact that Brands' first 2 summer windows were filled with buying players for SILVA. Does anyone seriously think Carlo would've greenlit signings like Bernard, Gomes, Delph? Don't answer that.
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April 07, 2021, 09:01:07 PM
Reply #43
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Bluedylan


So now we have to hear 'don't sell our best players,' 'don't sign anyone in the 2nd half of their career,' and of course, 'win right now.'


I said a few hours ago, I'm comfortable with Richarlison and DCL being sold for large sums, if the money is reinvested well. The second part is where the worry is. Selling to buy wisely, and levelling up is generally the way most clubs who break established orders do it.

I defo think we should minimise signings in the 2nd part of their career, and make occasional exceptions for exceptional players who take us up a level, like James. I don't think three players in the mid to late 20s in one window is particularly great at all, and if you absolutely decide that you have to do it, it has to justify itself by catipulting you up the league noticeably.

Win right now, definitely not. In fact, as a fanbase we're massively understanding and patient in that regard. Most of us are begging for any sort of European place, even a European Conference League place, just to try to get our foot back on the ladder, in some capacity.
''In the words of the prophet, today you sell your ring, tomorrow your watch, next week your chain and in 77 days, you won't have eyes to cry with''

Accattone - Pier Paolo Pasolini.

April 07, 2021, 10:11:52 PM
Reply #44
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KoemansNumberTens


Pretty much exactly this. No one currently at the club spent the money those 2 sales generated.

Plus, has anyone actually taken a look at revenue generated by the top clubs? It's 2,3, sometimes close to 4x the amount Everton generates. This limits us in an extreme capacity. Those clubs can take chances on signings and not matter if they don't pan out. I think some of our fans think we're City.

So now we have to hear 'don't sell our best players,' 'don't sign anyone in the 2nd half of their career,' and of course, 'win right now.'

Also ignored is the fact that Brands' first 2 summer windows were filled with buying players for SILVA. Does anyone seriously think Carlo would've greenlit signings like Bernard, Gomes, Delph? Don't answer that.

Don't think anyone is asking for us to be city.
We want something like Leicester where they get good value for their money, sign players with real potential and sell at the right times

We are actually more like city. Paying relatively big money and big wages for the biggest names we can attract. Proven players or names like gomes sigurdsson Delph pickford and dacoure. No most of them aren't ancelotti signings but I don't think last summer was a real positive sign either