November 24, 2017, 02:41:27 AM

Author Topic: Martina  (Read 1677 times)

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November 13, 2017, 08:42:43 AM
Reply #15
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Ridge


More mistakes from fewer chances? Martina is never around to make "mistakes" because he's 20 yards out of position.

And yes, it's a genuine problem to waste those two extra years worth of wages on a nothing player. Fees aren't the only thing that cost the club money.

I'm not trying to dig out Kenny, he's a young lad, but he's a higher risk than Cuco and he's shown that quite clearly on the few chances he's played.

If we spunked £10m on Cuco I'd understand it more, but then I think everyone might give him more than a dozen games in a shit team, to know where everyone else is and how he'll get on.

I think plenty of fans will always see half a team of whipping boys whatever team they look at.

deCoubertin

November 13, 2017, 09:01:14 AM
Reply #16
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kramer0


I'm not trying to dig out Kenny, he's a young lad, but he's a higher risk than Cuco and he's shown that quite clearly on the few chances he's played.

If we spunked £10m on Cuco I'd understand it more, but then I think everyone might give him more than a dozen games in a shit team, to know where everyone else is and how he'll get on.

I think plenty of fans will always see half a team of whipping boys whatever team they look at.

Agree to disagree then.

To me, Martina will always be the bigger risk because he canít be counted on to be where heís supposed to be. His clueless wandering leaves us exposed. Watch Bournemouthís goal again. Holgate is trying to cover two positions because Martina got caught way too far up the pitch. Thatís a basic mistake that an ďexperiencedĒ right back canít be making, the sort of mistake that will absolutely kill us over the course of a season.

Kenny was where he needed to be and scuffed a clearance. It happens. Itís unlikely to happen again.

November 13, 2017, 09:29:18 AM
Reply #17
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Ridge


Agree to disagree then.

To me, Martina will always be the bigger risk because he canít be counted on to be where heís supposed to be. His clueless wandering leaves us exposed. Watch Bournemouthís goal again. Holgate is trying to cover two positions because Martina got caught way too far up the pitch. Thatís a basic mistake that an ďexperiencedĒ right back canít be making, the sort of mistake that will absolutely kill us over the course of a season.

Kenny was where he needed to be and scuffed a clearance. It happens. Itís unlikely to happen again.

Fair enough guv, just think you have very different expectations and standards for them.

Any other new player in team struggling would have similar issues knowing what others are doing or what to expect. We've been a shambles, and that's not Martina's fault. Centre backs have to cover full backs who push forward and connect play. Sometimes they'll get caught out, if he sat like Hibbert everyone would complain how little he offers going forward, like with Baines.

Kenny will offer more going forward eventually, but his pass completion is 15% below Cuco at moment and he's just as, if not more likely to get caught out to me. If Cuco had shanked the cross, you'd be saying it was proof that he's not cut out for it, as when he is in the right place, he still fucks it up.

I don't think right back is anywhere near our main problem. With Europa fixtures, Cuco and Kenny make a decent team to cover right back duties until Coleman's back. Youngsters need some cover and support, as otherwise they can develop bad habits or struggle with  burden of responsibility. This way Kenny can come on later in games and have more of a go, or when opponents are less ambitious.

With Coleman out for a while and needing time to get back to his level, Kenny looking a decent player but with time needed to learn and adapt, we needed cover and Cuco on a free was probably one of the more sensible bits of business.


November 13, 2017, 02:48:36 PM
Reply #18
Online

Macca77


I'd be extremely happy if he never played for us again, the man is a liability, sad to say but its true, he would look out of place in the Championship.

November 13, 2017, 03:12:46 PM
Reply #19
Online

Escla

NSNO Subscriber
Fair enough guv, just think you have very different expectations and standards for them.

Any other new player in team struggling would have similar issues knowing what others are doing or what to expect. We've been a shambles, and that's not Martina's fault. Centre backs have to cover full backs who push forward and connect play. Sometimes they'll get caught out, if he sat like Hibbert everyone would complain how little he offers going forward, like with Baines.

Kenny will offer more going forward eventually, but his pass completion is 15% below Cuco at moment and he's just as, if not more likely to get caught out to me. If Cuco had shanked the cross, you'd be saying it was proof that he's not cut out for it, as when he is in the right place, he still fucks it up.

I don't think right back is anywhere near our main problem. With Europa fixtures, Cuco and Kenny make a decent team to cover right back duties until Coleman's back. Youngsters need some cover and support, as otherwise they can develop bad habits or struggle with  burden of responsibility. This way Kenny can come on later in games and have more of a go, or when opponents are less ambitious.

With Coleman out for a while and needing time to get back to his level, Kenny looking a decent player but with time needed to learn and adapt, we needed cover and Cuco on a free was probably one of the more sensible bits of business.

"Local lads" can be ten times shittier than Martina is perceived to be but will always be cut more slack than a player that has been brought in by a now departed manager.

November 13, 2017, 03:51:18 PM
Reply #20
Online

BlueNoseMike


Was always a difficult one with signing a RB. With Coleman being one of the best in the prem and us not having a bottomless pit of funds despite Moshiri taking over, Martina seemed to be a sensible option for the short term. Obviously he's not been that good like but I can see why he was signed.

Why waste 7 or 8 million on a RB when at that price they're going to be pretty standard, when that money can go towards an elite level striker. Oh wait  :bonk:


November 13, 2017, 04:19:51 PM
Reply #21
Online

Lxxx


I understand why we signed him. Holgate and Kenny are not the only two options you want at right back going into a long Premier League season. Like Kramer said though, I don't understand a 3 year deal for a lad who was sat at home on his ass doing nothing. He's very poor defensively, at a push he might have a decent stab at wing back where he can gallop up and down the touchline and have someone covering his ass but ideally you wouldn't want someone of his limited quality at your club.
Kenny started off like the kid that he is but he's starting to find his feet a little. I'd much rather take a mistake from an inexperienced lad who is learning than a mistake from an experienced player who really should know better. 

November 13, 2017, 04:26:29 PM
Reply #22
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Waltzer


I understand why we signed him. Holgate and Kenny are not the only two options you want at right back going into a long Premier League season. Like Kramer said though, I don't understand a 3 year deal for a lad who was sat at home on his ass doing nothing. He's very poor defensively, at a push he might have a decent stab at wing back where he can gallop up and down the touchline and have someone covering his ass but ideally you wouldn't want someone of his limited quality at your club.
Kenny started off like the kid that he is but he's starting to find his feet a little. I'd much rather take a mistake from an inexperienced lad who is learning than a mistake from an experienced player who really should know better. 

In the grand scheme of things I doubt a 3 or 2 or 1 year contract made much difference, he was 'only' on 20k a week at Southampton so I doubt his wages are that significant and I bet the cost would have been spread over whatever period, within reason?

November 13, 2017, 04:49:05 PM
Reply #23
Online

Lxxx


In the grand scheme of things I doubt a 3 or 2 or 1 year contract made much difference, he was 'only' on 20k a week at Southampton so I doubt his wages are that significant and I bet the cost would have been spread over whatever period, within reason?

It's not necessarily the cost, when Coleman comes back he'll be 4th choice right back. Is it really necessary to have a lad taking up a squad place who isn't good enough for the first team, too old to play in the U-23's and too advanced in his career to get any better. I suppose we could always try and sell him, if we can get someone to take him off our hands.

Anyway, we've got bigger issues in our squad at the minute than Martina.

November 13, 2017, 05:34:32 PM
Reply #24
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blargins

NSNO Subscriber
I only asked how he was.
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." Anais Nin

November 13, 2017, 05:47:26 PM
Reply #25
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gizzblue


"Local lads" can be ten times shittier than Martina is perceived to be but will always be cut more slack than a player that has been brought in by a now departed manager.
Its called the Ross equation.
Formally the Jeffers equation.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 06:08:53 PM by gizzblue »

November 13, 2017, 07:04:15 PM
Reply #26
Online

BlueNoseMike


Maybe the 3 year deal was a bit of forward thinking in terms of selling on? See if a championship side will take him off our hands for half a mil.

Not sure if we would get that money based on appearances but I can see the logic.

November 13, 2017, 11:05:53 PM
Reply #27
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D15TIN


Please god let that be his last game for Everton

November 13, 2017, 11:16:21 PM
Reply #28
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eyesalwaysblue


Put him up front with Niasse, ther'es not a team that could plan for that.
I still despise Clive Thomas..

November 17, 2017, 05:43:01 PM
Reply #29
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Ell Capitan

NSNO Subscriber
Unsworth just said he's been training all week and available for tomorrow.

yay.