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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Ell Capitan on September 10, 2017, 08:13:45 PM

Title: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 10, 2017, 08:13:45 PM
Let me first say I absolutely don't think we should. But I'm curious to see what the mood on here is like.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Brownie20 on September 10, 2017, 08:16:57 PM
Worms.Can of.Opened

Now let's get the popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show.


Oh yeah. Not at the moment. He needs til January
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: mikey_blue on September 10, 2017, 08:20:00 PM
Not yet like, albeit, It doesn't look great at the moment. I'll remain impartial until Christmas. We've g to at least start showing some signs of life though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on September 10, 2017, 08:20:03 PM
Obviously not.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheTone on September 10, 2017, 08:25:42 PM
fuck me, have I logged on to the Crystal Palace or West Ham forum by mistake
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blargins on September 10, 2017, 08:26:48 PM
He needs the season. January will be key as to whether we can get the striker we need in.

We all knew the start of the season would be hard. I wouldn't have expected more than 4 points realistically speaking from the games played to date. I'd have expected a draw at home to Spurs while getting beaten by City. I doubt we'll get anything out of Utd next weekend either, but from then on, we need to be picking up points and I'm sure we will.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Captain Sarcasm on September 10, 2017, 08:26:52 PM
If we give RK a shit load of money to spend on players then we at least have to give him the time to get his thoughts across to the players.

There's not a manager in the history of either the old 1st Division or the PL that has taken over at a club and got their team playing dream football. Invariably it takes time; look at Ferguson, Mourinho or even Guardiola to a certain extent. All of them have encountered problems and they have spent far more money on players of a better quality than us.

Let's just take a chill pill and see how things develop.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 10, 2017, 08:35:32 PM
Why not.

Give us something interesting for a few weeks.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on September 10, 2017, 08:37:47 PM
Why not.

Give us something interesting for a few weeks.

De Boer should be available soon
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: hill135 on September 10, 2017, 08:44:32 PM
No of course we shouldn't.

We've just given him £200m plus to build a team to his satisfaction and we're five games in to the season. It would also cost us £12m ish to do so.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: phillyt on September 10, 2017, 08:47:13 PM
No. Fucking ridiculous question. That performance yesterday was poor but Jesus Christ talking of sacking the man what the actual fuck?

The people clamouring for koeman to be sacked are probably the types who happy clapped kenwright and wanted to give Martinez till Christmas/end of the season/Christmas/end of the season. Probably sitting there over a wetherspoons breakfast calling moshiri a fraud.

Martinez delivered performances like that against the likes of hull fucking city and people were wanking themselves silly about how fucking clever he was.

Just no.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Blueviking on September 10, 2017, 08:50:08 PM
Yes, we should definitely sack him immediately, then hire another manager, give him £100m+ to spend and just keep repeating until we're top of the league within 6m.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 10, 2017, 08:53:37 PM
No, sit tight, hope that Coleman and Bolassie return by November. (Remember Bolassie? some on here thought he was good) and definitely splash out on a goal scorer plus an attacking midfielder in January. 7th is a very tall order with this disorganised squad.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 10, 2017, 08:55:11 PM
No did quite well last season (and as well as possible in the league) and it's very early doors this season.
Do I rate him?? Not especially past the basics. Do I think he's made the right signings for a balanced squad?? Absolutely not. Is he a good man manager?? Probably not.
He's entitled to fail though before he gets the sack. I think at best we'll plod on in 7th under him without the flair, ideas or even risk taking needed to even go any higher. I don't think he's the right man but the board obviously did and until he actually fails he should stay. Well unless Simeone bangs on our door demanding the job
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluebridge on September 10, 2017, 08:59:00 PM
Don't be soft
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 09:03:13 PM
No of course we shouldn't.

We've just given him £200m plus to build a team to his satisfaction and we're five games in to the season. It would also cost us £12m ish to do so.

 nod

That said if we finish this season without getting close to a trophy and barely in the top-half we'd have to absorb the cost of giving him the proverbial chop, probably tells you which option I picked.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 10, 2017, 09:12:12 PM
I don't rate him and I think our style ( if we have one ) is shite . I am not impressed by the players he has bought . However , I don't want us to just go sacking managers too soon . I would sooner be proved wrong although something tells me Moshiri will want progress and I don't think Koeman will deliver . I also think we will lose the next 3 games so the question might get a few more answers in a week or 2 .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 10, 2017, 09:31:29 PM
Only thing that needs sacking is this wank thread
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on September 10, 2017, 09:36:51 PM
Twin thread with the other Koeman nonsense one .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 10, 2017, 09:44:03 PM
basically sums up how i feel.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 10, 2017, 09:45:49 PM
Perhaps this thread is a good thing because it's showing that the majority aren't having as knee-jerk a reaction as the matchday threads might falsely suggest?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Cozzie on September 10, 2017, 09:48:50 PM
No.

Give him this season.

Depsite how shit things are at the moment for whatever reason I just feel we will be sound at the end of the season and even better 7th.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 10, 2017, 09:49:41 PM
Not this season really, we could only do it if relegation was possible, otherwise the fragile ego of the international managerial pool would shit a brick, if we potted him we'd be best taking it in house for a while. funny question to ask if you think no! or are you just hedging?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 10, 2017, 09:52:29 PM
No.

Give him this season.

Depsite how shit things are at the moment for whatever reason I just feel we will be sound at the end of the season and even better 7th.


lol if he refuses to play our only striker, and keeps playing martina cos he got him on a free, instead of kenny who is 100000x better, id rather Koeman and his arrogance goes.. Every match he has fucked up the team (shown by the subs he makes which changed the game for us) the only match he had the correct team/style was V man city, then he fucked that up by making the WRONG subs..

If he persists on playing the wrong players, with no tactics, in the wrong positions. we'll have wasted a year.

Hope he can let his ego slide, and do whats best for the team.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 10, 2017, 10:35:05 PM
Only thing that needs sacking is this wank thread

You forget your emoji !
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 10, 2017, 10:36:31 PM
No because it wouldn't give us anything right now
We shouldn't have got him in the first place
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 10, 2017, 10:42:43 PM
The big test will obviously come at Christmas. If he puts red deccies on his tree again sack him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 10, 2017, 10:42:50 PM
Look,most of us were queing up to give him a nosh after the speed in which new stock were seemingly rolling in everyday.They are all his signings so were led to believe,and in reality who would he be able to attract other than the calibre weve brought in.We may have new found wealth but no CL and big names exiting tell you all you need to know about were we stand on a european stage.
There are many bigger teams playing in La Liga,SerieA and Bundersliga that have much more attraction than us,lets hope the next level of player can be attracted here if ronald gets his act together and blends a proper purposeful system out of what weve got
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 10, 2017, 10:54:14 PM
Look,most of us were queing up to give him a nosh after the speed in which new stock were seemingly rolling in everyday.They are all his signings so were led to believe,and in reality who would he be able to attract other than the calibre weve brought in.We may have new found wealth but no CL and big names exiting tell you all you need to know about were we stand on a european stage.
There are many bigger teams playing in La Liga,SerieA and Bundersliga that have much more attraction than us,lets hope the next level of player can be attracted here if ronald gets his act together and blends a proper purposeful system out of what weve got


you dont need wealth to bring in a striker, we could have got that dude with the weird name who scored 2 past man utd for stoke,, he was in the reserves for his bundesliga side..

Koeman had no plan b to Giroud. it falls on the manager, there are countless strikers who came to the premier league this year, we could have easily got anyone of them who signed for any of the teams that finished below us last year, instead Koeman waited and dithered, and nothing happened, even tho he said numerous times thats the most important position,

ontop of that, the only striker we have who can do that role (DCL) Koeman doesnt want to play, instead he would rather have 4 number 10 like players who dont even get in the box, as evident in yesterdays mauling.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 10, 2017, 11:04:32 PM
You forget your emoji !

* lolol

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 10, 2017, 11:05:26 PM
Look,most of us were queing up to give him a nosh after the speed in which new stock were seemingly rolling in everyday.They are all his signings so were led to believe,and in reality who would he be able to attract other than the calibre weve brought in.We may have new found wealth but no CL and big names exiting tell you all you need to know about were we stand on a european stage.
There are many bigger teams playing in La Liga,SerieA and Bundersliga that have much more attraction than us,lets hope the next level of player can be attracted here if ronald gets his act together and blends a proper purposeful system out of what weve got

Wingers and strikers aren't all elite players. We aren't in a position where we can't attract these players but can have our pick of paceless number 10s
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue slug on September 10, 2017, 11:06:30 PM
Got to give him the season with the money he's spent on players he wants for his team/system
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 10, 2017, 11:11:44 PM

you dont need wealth to bring in a striker, we could have got that dude with the weird name who scored 2 past man utd for stoke,, he was in the reserves for his bundesliga side..

Koeman had no plan b to Giroud. it falls on the manager, there are countless strikers who came to the premier league this year, we could have easily got anyone of them who signed for any of the teams that finished below us last year, instead Koeman waited and dithered, and nothing happened, even tho he said numerous times thats the most important position,

ontop of that, the only striker we have who can do that role (DCL) Koeman doesnt want to play, instead he would rather have 4 number 10 like players who dont even get in the box, as evident in yesterdays mauling.
Its more the likelihood that the men behind him failed in negotiations for one reason or another not koeman,he did ask and quite publically too so what the truth is i clearly dont know.It smacks of desperation to bring niasse back into the fold,but to swallow pride like that as you stated theres got to be misinformation  somewhere along the line
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on September 10, 2017, 11:23:48 PM
What the fuck?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 10, 2017, 11:28:29 PM
What the fuck?
is that a no?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 10, 2017, 11:29:02 PM
Wingers and strikers aren't all elite players. We aren't in a position where we can't attract these players but can have our pick of paceless number 10s
The midfield cluttering is an headscratcher but weve got wingers on the books,ok bolasie is months off but he seems reluctant to give them a go.Personally i thought the striker he wanted was placed in the targetman pigeonhole,ie benteke,giroud and babacar,that suggests  he wanted to mix play up.....its just not come off.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 10, 2017, 11:29:10 PM
Its more the likelihood that the men behind him failed in negotiations for one reason or another not koeman,he did ask and quite publically too so what the truth is i clearly dont know.It smacks of desperation to bring niasse back into the fold,but to swallow pride like that as you stated theres got to be misinformation  somewhere along the line


thats not what Koeman stated in the pre spurs press conference, he said  choices a and b had gone, he was left with choices c,d and e, but wasnt willing to pay the money..

 but that stoke striker was cheap, the french dude who hudderfield bought (Mounie)  was also under 15 million. if he was looking at Deeney as one of the choices between c and e, he's messed up, i expect better than that from Koeman, hell Moyes scouting unearthed some gems, i expect someone with world class pedigree and world class contacts to atleast unearth someone who could be useful for us.. especially having Walsh there to help.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 10, 2017, 11:35:44 PM

thats not what Koeman stated in the pre spurs press conference, he said  choices a and b had gone, he was left with choices c,d and e, but wasnt willing to pay the money..

 but that stoke striker was cheap, the french dude who hudderfield bought (Mounie)  was also under 15 million. if he was looking at Deeney as one of the choices between c and e, he's messed up, i expect better than that from Koeman, hell Moyes scouting unearthed some gems, i expect someone with world class pedigree and world class contacts to atleast unearth someone who could be useful for us.. especially having Walsh there to help.

The impression I get is that he's just not flexible enough. No striker because a couple didn't come off, the massive Sigurdsson saga which ended in us paying a ridiculous fee. I don't think Walsh has free reign and has failed. I think he gets very little say when it comes to the bigger buys and I think A koeman isn't overly flexiable and B is choices are often a bit shit anyway
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 10, 2017, 11:38:31 PM

thats not what Koeman stated in the pre spurs press conference, he said  choices a and b had gone, he was left with choices c,d and e, but wasnt willing to pay the money..

 but that stoke striker was cheap, the french dude who hudderfield bought (Mounie)  was also under 15 million. if he was looking at Deeney as one of the choices between c and e, he's messed up, i expect better than that from Koeman, hell Moyes scouting unearthed some gems, i expect someone with world class pedigree and world class contacts to atleast unearth someone who could be useful for us.. especially having Walsh there to help.
If as your saying we just needed someone,anybody in,i reckon if deeney had of been signed that would have paved the way for a 200 page yarn titled FFS Deeney....but yes the fall out will roll on.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 10, 2017, 11:38:35 PM
the french dude who hudderfield bought (Mounie)  was also under 15 million

Fuck me, he's had 1 good game and you're talking like it's a massive missed opportunity.

Deeney is a mid table player at best.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 10, 2017, 11:43:48 PM
Fuck me, he's had 1 good game and you're talking like it's a massive missed opportunity.

Deeney is a mid table player at best.

But that's better than the strikers we have. We'd like a top 6 striker but we first and foremost need to improve on what we have

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 10, 2017, 11:44:05 PM
Fuck me, he's had 1 good game and you're talking like it's a massive missed opportunity.

Deeney is a mid table player at best.

LOL WHUT?

no i didnt state he was a 'massive missed opportunity' re read what i wrote,

i said koeman said he was after 5 strikers. the first 2 he missed out on. the other three(where i hypothesized that Deeney was one of them) due to prices that Koeman didnt want to pay.

then i mentioned 2 CHEAP strikers that Koeman could have bought, im not saying their excellent or world beaters, but equally as good as Deeney who would have cost 3 times as much as the 2 i mentioned..

please read what i wrote, before you start saying Deeney is mid table at best ( i agree he is)

that wasnt my point. my point was. Koeman lost out on target 1 and 2, he didnt pay for targets 3-5 due to market prices.

regardless we still need a striker.. hence why i mentioned Mounie and The stoke striker.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bacon sarnie on September 10, 2017, 11:54:40 PM
See what he does v Man United. Don't want to do anything drastic. Maybe he'll don kit and replace Williams.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: arteta4spain on September 10, 2017, 11:54:45 PM
I'm opening a massive can of worms but if he does go before the end of the season do you reckon Barkley will sign an extension?
(Awaits the fume) 🤦‍♂️
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2017, 11:58:30 PM
Our next big test as a club is the striker we buy. That will tell us a great deal about where we are and how ambitious we are I think.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 12:02:11 AM
Our next big test as a club is the striker we buy. That will tell us a great deal about where we are and how ambitious we are I think.


i'm not sure Koeman would know how to utilize him and also, what kind of striker will we be able to attract if we're in the bottom 5 come  January? even if we're in the bottom half... we would be so far off from where we where at the start of this season., as i said in the other thread, seems like with Koeman in charge for the season, it will be a wasted season.

Saw from yesterday he had a very difficult time to motivate the players.. how the fuck can you not motivate an everton player.. even Martinez could do that!!!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on September 11, 2017, 12:04:37 AM
I'm opening a massive can of worms but if he does go before the end of the season do you reckon Barkley will sign an extension?
(Awaits the fume) 🤦‍♂️

I would make that exchange in a heartbeat, if it meant we also got a hipster manager in as well (Tuchel, Favre, whatever)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 11, 2017, 12:11:08 AM

i'm not sure Koeman would know how to utilize him and also, what kind of striker will we be able to attract if we're in the bottom 5 come  January? even if we're in the bottom half... we would be so far off from where we where at the start of this season., as i said in the other thread, seems like with Koeman in charge for the season, it will be a wasted season.

Saw from yesterday he had a very difficult time to motivate the players.. how the fuck can you not motivate an everton player.. even Martinez could do that!!!

He got how many goals out Lukaku last year?

Worry about that if it looks anything like happening. We've been shit and still won against the apparently mighty Stoke I've been hearing would all walk into our first 11, drew against City when we should have won if it wasn't for an individual error, and we're into the next round of Europe.

OK I'm not confident for the game against United but every team in the league would likely struggle with our opening games, let's just see what happens when the training wheels come off and these players are used to one another and have a chance to get on the ball a little more.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 11, 2017, 12:11:16 AM
I'm opening a massive can of worms but if he does go before the end of the season do you reckon Barkley will sign an extension?
(Awaits the fume) 🤦‍♂️

No - Barkley will already be gone
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 11, 2017, 12:11:27 AM
Im in the untill xmas camp because if we go the whole season we could be in big trouble,,as much as we need a striker its no good if we cant create chances for them to score which seems to be another problem of ours at the mo... last season we we're 5th in the league for chances created and finished 7th,,, i dont see us creating anywhere near as many chances this season and what chances we will create we dont have 25 goals a season striker to put them away,,we could be well and truely fucked come xmas....i hope im wrong
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: arteta4spain on September 11, 2017, 12:20:37 AM
No - Barkley will already be gone
You really are a bundle of joy aren't you. My mates say I can be a pessimistic Blue but you scream of nihilism with your posts. You're getting boring now.
i did just write an epic post to throw back at you but tbh that's what you want, a reaction. All you are is a fucking wum.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: duncandisorderly on September 11, 2017, 12:24:04 AM
Give him the season. Then, providing we finish around 7th place again, give him another season and let him see out his deal without paying him off and then move on. If the unthinkable happens and we are around the bottom 3 by Christmas I would seriously consider getting rid. But yeah it's far too early to be talking about the sack.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 11, 2017, 12:25:09 AM
You really are a bundle of joy aren't you. My mates say I can be a pessimistic Blue but you scream of nihilism with your posts. You're getting boring now.
i did just write an epic post to throw back at you but tbh that's what you want, a reaction. All you are is a fucking wum.

The reply was epic in your own mind only. I don't want a reaction, I'm stating a fact it's pretty clear to see that Barkley is signing for Spurs in January & Koeman will definitely still be here then.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 12:29:37 AM
He got how many goals out Lukaku last year?

Lukaku was a striker, a class striker, Koeman never played to Lukakus strengths, imagine how much Lukaku could have got with us

Worry about that if it looks anything like happening. We've been shit and still won against the apparently mighty Stokewe scored before half time, then Koeman made 2 subs at half time, that helped us control the game, but in reality, we should have started with those players.. so koeman shoul have learned from that error I've been hearing would all walk into our first 11 lol maybe a CB and a striker.. i guess what posters are saying is, stoke look fluid and cohesive with a game plan, i think we will struggle to create the amount of chances Stoke did v Man utd.. and thats down to Koeman and his style of play, drew against City when we should have won if it wasn't for an individual error,again the error came because Koeman made the wrong subs, up until the subs we where doing well, soon as we brought on defenders for attacking players, we could no longer keep the ball in the opposition half, thus the Man City forcing an error from our player due to constant pressure.. that same pressure was seen v Chelsea and against Spurs.. its the tactics and our lack of style of play and we're into the next round of Europe. its a success to be outplayed out possessed against a part time team in 2 legs and against split?   If the earlyier rounds are to base anything off, we wont get out the group stages unless Koeman gets his fingers out his Danke.
 (i know that dont make sense,, but i liked that sponsor and i like saying thank you)
OK I'm not confident for the game against United but every team in the league would likely struggle with our opening games, let's just see what happens when the training wheels come off and these players are used to one another and have a chance to get on the ball a little more.

Stoke did not struggle yesterday, and we beat stoke!!!  we wont create half as many chances as Stoke,  V man utd

im basing what ive stated off of how we have played as a team.. im not on about opposition (we have played against great teams and shit teams) in non of those matches have we controlled the tempo,. controlled hte play or kept possession like a top rated top 40 team should.


by the time most take the blue tinted glasses off, it will be too late.. i admit i got that with Martinez, it wasnt til towards the end of his third season i wanted him to go..
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: arteta4spain on September 11, 2017, 12:30:24 AM
Im in the untill xmas camp because if we go the whole season we could be in big trouble,,as much as we need a striker its no good if we cant create chances for them to score which seems to be another problem of ours at the mo... last season we we're 5th in the league for chances created and finished 7th,,, i dont see us creating anywhere near as many chances this season and what chances we will create we dont have 25 goals a season striker to put them away,,we could be well and truely fucked come xmas....i hope im wrong
That's the madness of this situation. One signing and this thread and forum could be seeing things differently. But at the same time the striker is the final piece but the midfield is a shit show at the mo. There's too many midfielders. Too many cooks spoil the broth and all that.
I feel Koemans trying to integrate all the players and he's overloaded the middle of the park. I'm sure Spurs were similar a fair few seasons ago where they had a load of midfielders and couldn't get it to work.
I feel Koeman is being reactive than proactive as he's accommodating players to the current situation. He needs to stick with our strongest xi and dictate the play. Put us on the front foot and control the game. Sod all the stupid formation and personnel changes to the team and build a team that knows each other.
We've changed too much and it's hurting us badly. Even if he uses older players  in terms of McCarthy and mirallas. At least these players are familiar to our play. I'd still start with Pickford but the likes of Klaassen and Sandro who have struggled should be in an xi that's completely simpatico with each other. I know there's injuries that prohibit this but we need some stability and structure.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: arteta4spain on September 11, 2017, 12:34:27 AM
The reply was epic in your own mind only. I don't want a reaction, I'm stating a fact it's pretty clear to see that Barkley is signing for Spurs in January & Koeman will definitely still be here then.
Alright smart arse. I meant epic in terms of length but whatever. You're probably right on the situation with Barkley but if he can see that results aren't going right and there's a possibility of Koeman going before the end of the season then you never know.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 11, 2017, 12:42:22 AM
Yeah sack him now

Anyone got Gary Megsons number?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 12:43:14 AM
for me, a striker wouldnt make any difference,

its the style of play, lack of tactics, and playing players in their wrong positions.

thats why im not rating Koeman,  even with said striker, if we played as abysmal as this, i would have the same views.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: School of Science on September 11, 2017, 12:50:01 AM
I'm for letting it roll until the end of the season, I want to see more fluidity in the team, but it needs time to gel and get his best eleven. Want us to improve our league form, top seven will do this year, but I want us to win a cup.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on September 11, 2017, 01:12:31 AM
There isn't a lack of tactics his tactics just aren't working right now. He needs to do a lot better than the last few games clearly but Koe-mon surely everyone can see that this side hasn't gelled and isn't performing yet? Let's wait and see if we have an identity as the season progresses instead of giving crazy shout of give him until Christmas based on a handful of games against some of the best teams in the league.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Elgoodo1978 on September 11, 2017, 01:32:26 AM
I'm just so pissed that his arrogance doesn't seem to be based on any profound judgment that he may have, especially over players in and out.  A lot of players within the club i got a little attached too and rated.   Also, I don't know why but I thought tactically he wouldn't have been so negative and middle of the road, should have known really looking at his track record prior. But I guess this new marketing job being done at Everton since Moshiri's arrival sucked me in to believe very exciting was happening across the board at our club and quickly.

But saying all this, after a reality check, it's still early days and fucking off all that PR bullshit thats followed most of our signings, there's plenty of time to get it right for the long haul.  So for me, we should be behind him and prey he proves to be a fucking genius.   But fuck me its tedious at the moment.

Or this

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on September 11, 2017, 01:33:42 AM
One of two things will happen. Koeman will either resign at the end of this season or the board won't renew his contract after next season.
It took nearly a season for the club to get rid of Martinez, no way are they sacking Koeman unless we are in the bottom three by March. Kenwright/Moshiri and ruthless don't apply in the same context.

The only fuck up the board can do is give Koeman an improved deal at the end of this season or before.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 11, 2017, 01:45:54 AM
Bolasie and Coleman to return will help him strengthen the shit areas. January is also key, having done amazing business in the transfer market he knows himself he's dropped a bollock by not getting a striker in first, plus that left sided centre half.

Far too hasty with the sacking talk from anybody.

I'd say Palace would be wrong to sack De Boer should it happen this week.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 01:49:20 AM
Bolasie and Coleman to return will help him strengthen the shit areas. January is also key, having done amazing business in the transfer market he knows himself he's dropped a bollock by not getting a striker in first, plus that left sided centre half.

Far too hasty with the sacking talk from anybody.

I'd say Palace would be wrong to sack De Boer should it happen this week.

Atleast De Boer has his team play some sort of football, also they have hardly spent anything at all this window.

Regardless of Coleman and Bolassie returning. our style of play/tactics will still be the same.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 11, 2017, 01:57:01 AM
Crystal palace also had 23 shots on goal
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 11, 2017, 02:00:31 AM
Crystal palace also had 23 shots on goal

You might have to explain what "shots on on goal" are to our younger posters..
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 11, 2017, 02:07:43 AM
Bolasie and Coleman to return will help him strengthen the shit areas. January is also key, having done amazing business in the transfer market he knows himself he's dropped a bollock by not getting a striker in first, plus that left sided centre half.

Far too hasty with the sacking talk from anybody.

I'd say Palace would be wrong to sack De Boer should it happen this week.
Sorry to be pedantic but once a-fucking-gain... 'he' dropped a bollock by not bringing a striker in? Fuck me!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 02:11:00 AM
Crystal palace also had 23 shots on goal

i dont think we've had 23 shots on target if you count all the shots we've had in the premier league this year ;/

and people still want to wait til the end of the season lol

thought id check stats before i pressed post, i lied, we have had 35 shots in all premier league matches this season,... LOL that makes palaces 23 in 1 match even worse.

 Attack
Goals 2
Goals Per Match 0.50
Shots 35
Shots On Target 7
Shooting Accuracy % 20%
Penalties Scored 0
Big Chances Created 3
Hit Woodwork

https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/7/Everton/stats?se=79
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: WeimaranerBlues on September 11, 2017, 02:12:47 AM
just saw a quick stat
lowest shots on target so far from 4 games
6
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 11, 2017, 02:13:27 AM
Sorry to be pedantic but once a-fucking-gain... 'he' dropped a bollock by not bringing a striker in? Fuck me!

Well it is mainly Koeman's job, isn't it? Fuck me!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 02:14:17 AM
ive seen it posted on here before but.. i thought posters where trolling,

4 matches 7 shots on target..  fuck thats depressing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 11, 2017, 02:23:44 AM
Maybe i shouldve wrote that better,,,as good as it sounded they had 23 attempts at goal with 5 on target
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Cassius on September 11, 2017, 02:25:11 AM
Should we sack him now? Of course not.

Should we wait until the end of the season? No.

We should always judge the situation we're in and react accordingly.

If we're struggling and bottom three/four by Christmas, then I'd advocate a change. Anything else and we give him the season.

Saturday was insipid. But let's give him a chance to get his new team to gel and play his way before making rash decisions.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rhys on September 11, 2017, 02:33:40 AM
Well it is mainly Koeman's job, isn't it? Fuck me!

Not really no that's not his area. He might identify some players, he might discuss players with walsh and the scouting team but the recruitment of players isnt his responsibility or area. It's down to Walsh and the board so that is definitely their error in not getting a forward.

Unless they offered Koeman some late on and he said no, which given we got Valencia rather than do nothing last summer I doubt he would have declined someone rather than be left with what we have.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 11, 2017, 02:35:27 AM
Not really no that's not his area. He might identify some players, he might discuss players with walsh and the scouting team but the recruitment of players isnt his responsibility or area. It's down to Walsh and the board so that is definitely their error in not getting a forward.

Unless they offered Koeman some late on and he said no, which given we got Valencia rather than do nothing last summer I doubt he would have declined someone rather than be left with what we have.

Surely he must have a big say in who they're looking at bringing in though?!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 02:47:13 AM
Surely he must have a big say in who they're looking at bringing in though?!

im pretty sure we only got Martina due to Koeman, so im pretty sure he has some say.

No one else in any top league(the top 5 eu leagues) would have gave Martina a contract.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 11, 2017, 02:53:23 AM
im pretty sure we only got Martina due to Koeman, so im pretty sure he has some say.

No one else in any top league(the top 5 eu leagues) would have gave Martina a contract.

Well, there must've been some/a lot of sentiment in him bringing him in. He seemed to think it would paper over the cracks of Coleman missing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 11, 2017, 02:56:39 AM
Well, there must've been some/a lot of sentiment in him bringing him in. He seemed to think it would paper over the cracks of Coleman missing.

That's like Barca buying George Weah's cousin to cover Messi getting injured
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on September 11, 2017, 02:58:22 AM
Martina is like a reverse Hibbert. Koeman has took a chance on our defence being solid enough and so far it isn't working
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 11, 2017, 02:59:13 AM
That's like Barca buying George Weah's cousin to cover Messi getting injured

But it's actually happening at our club. I'd rather use Holgate
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 02:59:38 AM
Well, there must've been some/a lot of sentiment in him bringing him in. He seemed to think it would paper over the cracks of Coleman missing.

yep a lot of sentiment, would have been the third time (that i know of) that Koeman had bought Martina., Holgate and Kenny would have both done a much better job than what Martina has, Must be killing Kenny not to be playing and watching Martina play.,. lol not sure which thread but someone was moaning at Garbutt being paid 30k a week, Wonder how much Martina is on...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 11, 2017, 03:01:00 AM
Martina is straight out of the Martinez school of player recruitment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 11, 2017, 03:01:49 AM
But it's actually happening at our club. I'd rather use Holgate

Yes or Kenny, Martina is shit
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 11, 2017, 03:04:36 AM
yep a lot of sentiment, would have been the third time (that i know of) that Koeman had bought Martina., Holgate and Kenny would have both done a much better job than what Martina has, Must be killing Kenny not to be playing and watching Martina play.,. lol not sure which thread but someone was moaning at Garbutt being paid 30k a week, Wonder how much Martina is on...

Anything over 75 pound a week is too much
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on September 11, 2017, 03:15:09 AM
We took a while last season to get going and for Koeman to get his message across. The first four or five games last season masked that we weren't really playing that well. This season we've made wholesale changes to the squad and it's pretty clear for one reason or another we're having a similar start to last year, made harder by several new players, not just new to Everton but new to the league who are going to take time to adapt. Some might never adapt, I've never liked big overhauls of a squad and the chances of everyone that was signed making an impression are probably quite small.

It's going to take time, certainly more than 4 league games and a couple of Europa ties one of which became part of pre season. Calling for him to be replaced already is fucking stupid.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 11, 2017, 03:22:20 AM
We took a while last season to get going and for Koeman to get his message across. The first four or five games last season masked that we weren't really playing that well. This season we've made wholesale changes to the squad and it's pretty clear for one reason or another we're having a similar start to last year, made harder by several new players, not just new to Everton but new to the league who are going to take time to adapt. Some might never adapt, I've never liked big overhauls of a squad and the chances of everyone that was signed making an impression are probably quite small.

It's going to take time, certainly more than 4 league games and a couple of Europa ties one of which became part of pre season. Calling for him to be replaced already is fucking stupid.

We started well last year, drew the first game then won the next four or five and were second for a bit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on September 11, 2017, 03:24:08 AM
We started well last year, drew the first game then won the next four or five and were second for a bit.

Yeah, then went something like 10 games with 1 win, that's why I said our start masked that we weren't playing well.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 11, 2017, 03:26:17 AM
Yeah, then went something like 10 games with 1 win, that's why I said our start masked that we weren't playing well.

True. Second half of the season was better like, especially Christmas/January.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on September 11, 2017, 03:27:34 AM
True. Second half of the season was better like, especially Christmas/January.

Yeah, that's what I mean, I think we'll come good but with all the changes we've made it's going to take a while to get going.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 11, 2017, 03:31:40 AM
Yeah, then went something like 10 games with 1 win, that's why I said our start masked that we weren't playing well.

As i remember it we started really well and then started playing shite longball football which lead us to not winning in x games,,in some of those games we were knocking 50 odd longballs a game as i watched the games twice and counted them even down to if they went to our player or theirs,,some absolute shite football thats when i started to have reservations about koeman
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GLewis on September 11, 2017, 03:34:42 AM
As i remember it we started really well and then started playing shite longball football which lead us to not winning in x games,,in some of those games we were knocking 50 odd longballs a game as i watched the games twice and counted them even down to if they went to our player or theirs,,some absolute shite football thats when i started to have reservations about koeman

He said himself that we weren't playing as he wanted in the first 5 games but we managed to get results.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on September 11, 2017, 03:37:11 AM
Even if you want him sacked, he won't be anytime soon. Apparently he was Moshiri's first choice to replace Martinez and probably Kenwright's too, they have given him an enormous amount of investment, someone said we have spent more money in Koeman's 18 months at the club than then whole of David Moyes' 11 year tenure.

They are putting an enormous amount of trust in Koeman and I guess they are very much prepared to give him the time to work with this new team. It will take a very toxic atmosphere before the End of Season Awards Ceremony before they would decide to sack him, but at this moment in time we are far far away from that stage
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 03:37:24 AM
sounds like Moyes more and more... how many great half seasons did we have with Moyes?  I think we would have killed the league if it ran from Jan - Dec in 2008 i think.

Does this mean next year Koemans team will again need half the season to start playing?

disgraceful that.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 11, 2017, 03:37:53 AM
Thing I like about Koeman is it feels like we have more games where we confortably win by 2 or 3 (mostly 2) goal margins than we ever got with any other manager since the 80s. Makes watching us a far more relaxing exercise.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 11, 2017, 03:39:07 AM
Yeah, that's what I mean, I think we'll come good but with all the changes we've made it's going to take a while to get going.

Yeah I don't think there's too many flapping just yet, more frustration than anything. He still doesn't know his preferred formation or midfield yet.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on September 11, 2017, 03:39:35 AM
As i remember it we started really well and then started playing shite longball football which lead us to not winning in x games,,in some of those games we were knocking 50 odd longballs a game as i watched the games twice and counted them even down to if they went to our player or theirs,,some absolute shite football thats when i started to have reservations about koeman

In terms of results we started well but there wasn't really any of those games where you felt we'd played really well for a prolonged period.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 03:42:37 AM
Thing I like about Koeman is it feels like we have more games where we confortably win by 2 or 3 (mostly 2) goal margins than we ever got with any other manager since the 80s. Makes watching us a far more relaxing exercise.


???? do you mean when we had Lukaku?

no other striker we get to replace him will do what he did, especially with Koeman in charge.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 11, 2017, 04:25:26 AM

???? do you mean when we had Lukaku?

no other striker we get to replace him will do what he did, especially with Koeman in charge.

Well maybe, but we had 3 seasons before Koeman with Lukaku and we didn't win shit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 04:31:57 AM
Well maybe, but we had 3 seasons before Koeman with Lukaku and we didn't win shit.

okay. but that makes no sense in regards to your previous post, where you said. Koeman makes you feel more relaxed cos we used to win games more than 2-0

i replied saying we won 2-0 and + due to lukakus goals... what does winning shit have to do with that??

the fact is, we won by big margins due to lukakus goals... this year as we have seen already we will struggle to score, (stats are 7 shots on target in 4 premier league games out of which we have scored 2 goals)

are you seriously saying your relaxed as we struggle to score?

Thing I like about Koeman is it feels like we have more games where we confortably win by 2 or 3 (mostly 2) goal margins than we ever got with any other manager since the 80s. Makes watching us a far more relaxing exercise.

we'd be lucky to score 2 goals in a match any time soon.. let alone get 3 on target lol
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 11, 2017, 04:36:27 AM
okay. but that makes no sense in regards to your previous post, where you said. Koeman makes you feel more relaxed cos we used to win games more than 2-0

i replied saying we won 2-0 and + due to lukakus goals... what does winning shit have to do with that??

The logic of my argument is impeccable, you're just not apparently sharp enough at this time of night to follow it.

Try again, and if you still don't get it, I'll explain.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 11, 2017, 04:37:04 AM
Let me first say I absolutely don't think we should. But I'm curious to see what the mood on here is like.
Bit like tossing a flare into a box full of cats and closing the lid..

I'm gonna go with.. it's not something anyone here has the power to do, so "should" doesn't come into it. If we're gonna "should" our problems away, we "should" buy Kane, Aguero, Hazard, Sanchez..

Bored.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 11, 2017, 04:38:02 AM
Bit like tossing a flare into a box full of cats and closing the lid..

I'm gonna go with.. it's not something anyone here has the power to do, so "should" doesn't come into it. If we're gonna "should" our problems away, we "should" buy Kane, Aguero, Hazard, Sanchez..

Bored.

You're right. We need another number 10.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 04:40:08 AM
The logic of my argument is impeccable, you're just not apparently sharp enough at this time of night to follow it.

Try again, and if you still don't get it, I'll explain.


trololo.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 11, 2017, 04:41:11 AM
No. He should get until the end of the season.

Unless Thomas Tuchel desperately wants the job for some reason. Then yes, sack him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 11, 2017, 04:44:24 AM
I was somewhat surprised to see 25% of the vote taking the "he's great" option. Although I appreciate the phrasing and options limit how much you can draw from the poll, it's still a lot stronger support for him than you might think reading the site the past few days.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 11, 2017, 04:50:14 AM
Everyone wants success now
No chance of building, it has to be now

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 11, 2017, 05:21:33 AM
He said himself that we weren't playing as he wanted in the first 5 games but we managed to get results.

What way do you think he wants us to play?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 11, 2017, 05:48:47 AM
I can see that the thread is designed to gauge feeling at the moment, which is fair enough. But the actual question as to whether he should be sacked now is fucking stupid and wildly premature (and I'm not even particularly pro-Koeman).
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 11, 2017, 06:05:37 AM
I was somewhat surprised to see 25% of the vote taking the "he's great" option. Although I appreciate the phrasing and options limit how much you can draw from the poll, it's still a lot stronger support for him than you might think reading the site the past few days.
It's amazing how in any group of people, 90% of the noise comes from a small fraction of them. Much of the rest of the noise is everyone else muttering "for fuck's sake.."
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 11, 2017, 06:10:26 AM
You're right. We need another number 10.
No-one is right, that's the beauty of speculative debate.
I wasn't bored with your thread, I was bored with my own ridiculous example of why it was a stupid question. Which is not to suggest your quest to gauge the mood is stupid, merely that the question is such. The poll results validate your quest in any event.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 11, 2017, 06:16:28 AM
I was somewhat surprised to see 25% of the vote taking the "he's great" option. Although I appreciate the phrasing and options limit how much you can draw from the poll, it's still a lot stronger support for him than you might think reading the site the past few days.
My option would have been "As with all continuously evolving situations I am unwilling to commit to any timescale, but he doesn't need to be sacked today"
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Redartin on September 11, 2017, 06:20:11 AM
One step at a time - give him to Christmas.

If our B team, Sunderland, knock us out of the cup and we don't qualify for the knock out stages of the Europa and are 15th or 16th in the League then chase him.

If we are still in both cups and top half of the league then prolong it to the end of season.

The problem with our opening League fixtures that I see is, once teams start losing 3-4 games in a row the confidence goes, and then losing becomes a hard habit to break.
The other thing is, if we are trying to break into top 4, top 6, then surely beating those teams above us, especially at home, is a priority, not lying down and rolling over like yesterday.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueski on September 11, 2017, 07:11:22 AM
I don't think it would work to sack him now even if the board wanted to

Don't you just think there's a large slice of responsibility laid at the feet of the board / director of football etc for not replacing lukaku - would be massive scapegoating by the board if he was sacked at this point

needs another window IMO - if results haven't turned by then and we don't strengthen I think some serious questions need to be asked with respect to where we are going and frankly based on how toothless we look at the moment I wonder if we might not find ourselves at this point by then
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 11, 2017, 07:26:11 AM
I don't think it would work to sack him now even if the board wanted to

Don't you just think there's a large slice of responsibility laid at the feet of the board / director of football etc for not replacing lukaku - would be massive scapegoating by the board if he was sacked at this point

needs another window IMO - if results haven't turned by then and we don't strengthen I think some serious questions need to be asked with respect to where we are going and frankly based on how toothless we look at the moment I wonder if we might not find ourselves at this point by then

Another window means giving him more money to spend, he's already had more since he's been here than Moyes did during his whole reign at the club, saying that he needs to buy a striker or two I know, but his signings are pretty poor & the thing which worries me most is that he doesn't seem to have a clue how he wants to play which you'd hope he would have figured out by now considering most of the team are now players he's signed
Title: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 11, 2017, 08:05:04 AM
The more money than Moyes shout is not valid. Look at the club income and transfer market average spending by all other clubs over the same time periods. Moyes did some awesome buying at bargain prices but rarely spent relative big money (for his era) well. Koeman's long term value to the squad is yet to be measured over any real timescale. Although Williams value is not looking great at the moment. Of all the players RK has bought, he should be showing his value the most for the league standard and the various formation experience. But that's one player. Judging any of the latest acquisitions so soon only makes sense if you are biased against Koeman.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 11, 2017, 01:56:51 PM
People still murmuring on about Moyes. The man achieved nothing. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 11, 2017, 02:05:20 PM
People still murmuring on about Moyes. The man achieved nothing. 
Someone said Moyes?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3y3q2ivT9DTNe/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 11, 2017, 02:19:48 PM
It's actually embarrassing that someone would bring Moyes up.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mick 1995 on September 11, 2017, 02:36:23 PM
We have picked up 1 point from a run of 3 games where i expected zero. Fromt hat alone i wouldn't consider his job to be on the line at this stage.
Similarly if we get beat by United.

6 points from Bournemouth & Burnley home games and i'll be content to crack on.
Anything less though and i'll start listening to what the reactionaries have to say.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TSGun on September 11, 2017, 02:37:00 PM
Someone said Moyes?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3y3q2ivT9DTNe/giphy.gif)

Is that Eric Cantona in the hoody bottom right corner?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Django on September 11, 2017, 04:24:26 PM
No. Fucking ridiculous question. That performance yesterday was poor but Jesus Christ talking of sacking the man what the actual fuck?

The people clamouring for koeman to be sacked are probably the types who happy clapped kenwright and wanted to give Martinez till Christmas/end of the season/Christmas/end of the season. Probably sitting there over a wetherspoons breakfast calling moshiri a fraud.

Martinez delivered performances like that against the likes of hull fucking city and people were wanking themselves silly about how fucking clever he was.

Just no.



Wetherspoons have 7.5% off everything for one day only on the 20th September
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 11, 2017, 04:30:54 PM
* lolol

:thumbsup:

Needed bumping .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: themilkycoffees on September 11, 2017, 04:34:00 PM
I really hope the votes for Moyes were ironic votes.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 11, 2017, 04:39:05 PM
He needs sacking purely and simply for playing Cuco Martina .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 11, 2017, 04:41:20 PM
Wetherspoons have 7.5% off everything for one day only on the 20th September

The most valuable bit of content to be posted on here for weeks.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 11, 2017, 04:43:46 PM
Martina who had a very good first half when others were shite throughout the game? What did Rooney do? Nothing except get booked. Williams? Oh Dear. The two new signings? The tea ladies would have done better. Wrong target if you are looking for a scapegoat.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 11, 2017, 04:45:23 PM
Well it is mainly Koeman's job, isn't it? Fuck me!
It's the board. Koeman doesn't sign players.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 11, 2017, 05:03:43 PM
People still murmuring on about Moyes. The man achieved nothing.

Pathetic statement we were on our arses when he took over and ready to drop, he turned is into a top half team with absolutely no money
I think people are quick to forget what Moyes actually did for us
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 11, 2017, 05:05:53 PM
Martina who had a very good first half when others were shite throughout the game? What did Rooney do? Nothing except get booked. Williams? Oh Dear. The two new signings? The tea ladies would have done better. Wrong target if you are looking for a scapegoat.

I judge players on a full game he was at fault for 2 of their goals, he's absolutely shit
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 11, 2017, 05:16:57 PM
I judge players on a full game he was at fault for 2 of their goals, he's absolutely shit
Agreed he was joke at times on Saturday.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 11, 2017, 05:21:37 PM
Martina who had a very good first half when others were shite throughout the game? What did Rooney do? Nothing except get booked. Williams? Oh Dear. The two new signings? The tea ladies would have done better. Wrong target if you are looking for a scapegoat.

2 of the 3 goals he was out of position or failed to close down the cross . He isn't the wrong target he is gash and is keeping a better youngster out of the team . Manager sees them every day in training blah blah blah . Rooney is a bit inhibited by the fact that the midfield dream team of Sig , Scneids and Klassless provided fuck all between the 3 of them .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 08:14:25 PM
It's actually embarrassing that someone would bring Moyes up.

that is why i have brought him up, Koeman is making me feel as embarrassed(if not more) than  Moyes made me feel.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 11, 2017, 08:18:37 PM
Martina who had a very good first half when others were shite throughout the game? What did Rooney do? Nothing except get booked. Williams? Oh Dear. The two new signings? The tea ladies would have done better. Wrong target if you are looking for a scapegoat.

its not even his defensive play. at right back he was throwing in balls aimlessly, while the 4 attacking players where outside the box, only once he picked out a player (sandro) and that was hit full pelt at him, everytime he crossed it in, nothing happened apart from spurs getting  the ball, while martina walked back not bothered... as stated 2 of the goals where his direct fault.

the games he has played with Lookman on his wing, he fucking takes lookmans space, passes the ball to lookman then runs down the wing, taking lookmans space, Martina is a very poor excuse for a footballer.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lincs Toffee on September 11, 2017, 08:52:41 PM
I'm still optimistic that when we get Coleman and Bolassie back we will see more of the team that Koeman wants to play, add a striker in the mix and after January I think we will look a different team altogether... >takes off blue tinted specs<
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on September 11, 2017, 08:56:22 PM
Firstly I want it known I personally didn't want koeman in the first place......however to call for his sacking at this point is very irrational and somewhat a kneejerk reaction to 2 bad losses....1) against the current champions and 2) against the runners up from last year..

I tend to feel some people forget we have a basically a new squad, plus the majority of the new squad are youngsters....the squad/team need time to blend...for me this is the simple explanation to our poor performances.....once they bond I feel the performances will come...

My biggest criticism of the performances is the constant changes to the team....every week....have we had the same team twice yet ?

is it koemans fault we didn't buy a new striker ? Possibly, however, the information points to our head of recruitment for me.....yes koeman will have an influence on who he prefers....but even if the recruitment team cant land the preferred choices whose fault is it ? which top notch striker wants to sign for the 7th placed team in the prem?
People shout to replace lukaku..my questions are simply how ? and who with ? who is a comparison to lukaku ? Giroud? cant get in the arsenal first team....benteke? did you see his performance for palace?....did they get 25 goals last season...

Time will tell if koeman is the right man.....time for me is until at least the end of the season....see where we are then......where we've progressed to (or not as the case maybe)....then reassess the situation.....the problem is what is classed as progression...cup finals? 5/6th in the league? semi final of the europa?...what?

come on guys wind yer necks in a bit......

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on September 11, 2017, 08:58:15 PM
I'm still optimistic that when we get Coleman and Bolassie back we will see more of the team that Koeman wants to play, add a striker in the mix and after January I think we will look a different team altogether... >takes off blue tinted specs<
You leave them specs on mate ,it beats reading the woe is me shite spouted here.
Optimism is key.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 11, 2017, 09:10:51 PM
I get the firm impression that some folks have no time for Martina. Lukaku would probably have scored from 2 of his "aimless crosses" because he would have been there in the box and got to the ball. I am not pretending he is the answer to right back but we fucked up in the transfer market, and as for Holgate, who is a centre back, he is hopeless going forward as we saw last season and we have no winger in front of him. Someone on here said he never wanted to see Holgate play right back again after last season. Go we are goosed for a full back until Seamus returns, or try Besic there? I don't know, and I suspect neither does Koeman, although he knows Martina better than anyone here. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on September 11, 2017, 09:12:40 PM
Meanwhile Kenny doing a cracking job for the u23'S But RK is too stubborn to admit when he's wrong. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Sir Stealth on September 11, 2017, 09:19:37 PM
Should we sack him?

No. But things need to improve. He needs to find out a formation that works for the team and get the right personnel on the pitch, rather than shoehorning players into the side just to have them on the pitch
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 11, 2017, 09:29:53 PM
I get the firm impression that some folks have no time for Martina. Lukaku would probably have scored from 2 of his "aimless crosses" because he would have been there in the box and got to the ball. I am not pretending he is the answer to right back but we fucked up in the transfer market, and as for Holgate, who is a centre back, he is hopeless going forward as we saw last season and we have no winger in front of him. Someone on here said he never wanted to see Holgate play right back again after last season. Go we are goosed for a full back until Seamus returns, or try Besic there? I don't know, and I suspect neither does Koeman, although he knows Martina better than anyone here.

There's a lad called Jonjoe Kenny at the club who plays RB for England U21's aswell don't forget.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 11, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Throwing more youngsters from u23 into this mess would not work. Did you see Davies' performance after he came on? The game had already gone to shit and he followed suit. Older heads, if there are any, might be better until we stabilize. Before someone mentions the loss of Barry, I see he did WBA no good as they were thrashed. Mind he would have kicked a few Spurs players if he had been there. Lookman has played plenty of league games before he came here, and so have Lennon and Besic. Get them back in. Mid table is a realistic position by the next transfer window, unless Koeman performs a miracle.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 11, 2017, 09:46:28 PM
Throwing more youngsters from u23 into this mess would not work. Did you see Davies' performance after he came on? The game had already gone to shit and he followed suit. Older heads, if there are any, might be better until we stabilize. Before someone mentions the loss of Barry, I see he did WBA no good as they were thrashed. Mind he would have kicked a few Spurs players if he had been there. Lookman has played plenty of league games before he came here, and so have Lennon and Besic. Get them back in. Mid table is a realistic position by the next transfer window, unless Koeman performs a miracle.
That's different because there are other options in Davies' position. Martina is woeful and the longer he plays the more goals we're gonna concede because of him
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 11, 2017, 10:08:07 PM
Throwing more youngsters from u23 into this mess would not work. Did you see Davies' performance after he came on? The game had already gone to shit and he followed suit. Older heads, if there are any, might be better until we stabilize. Before someone mentions the loss of Barry, I see he did WBA no good as they were thrashed. Mind he would have kicked a few Spurs players if he had been there. Lookman has played plenty of league games before he came here, and so have Lennon and Besic. Get them back in. Mid table is a realistic position by the next transfer window, unless Koeman performs a miracle.

I think you will find most of Koemans squad are older but not any wiser than Davies . My opinion of Koeman isn't based on 2 games its based on last seasons efforts against the top teams and our woeful away performances .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bogie on September 11, 2017, 10:16:16 PM
No, sit tight, hope that Coleman and Bolassie return by November. (Remember Bolassie? some on here thought he was good) and definitely splash out on a goal scorer plus an attacking midfielder in January. 7th is a very tall order with this disorganised squad.

yeah an attacking midfielder is what we need really sort of them
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bogie on September 11, 2017, 10:20:52 PM
best of the rest last year but 2 players in are squad form that year will never get a game under him

out off both cups 1st round helped getting best of the rest

have been shit to watch bar 2 halfs out of 16 this year so far

and back to playing 4 2 3 1 great fucking great

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 11, 2017, 11:41:27 PM
Pathetic statement we were on our arses when he took over and ready to drop, he turned is into a top half team with absolutely no money
I think people are quick to forget what Moyes actually did for us

I see Moyes has trained you well. Other than doing what Tony Pulis does season in season out, what did Moyes achieve.

Edit: I removed the question mark at the end because you're a dopey prick and can't be arsed reading shit that you've already repeated 100 times already.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 11, 2017, 11:43:30 PM
FFs because we aint already sacked him now it looks like we're gonna miss out on woy hodgeson :o lolol :wanker:
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 11, 2017, 11:49:35 PM
No

Back him to see out his contract
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 12, 2017, 12:06:58 AM
I see Moyes has trained you well. Other than doing what Tony Pulis does season in season out, what did Moyes achieve.

Edit: I removed the question mark at the end because you're a dopey prick and can't be arsed reading shit that you've already repeated 100 times already.

It's still a question and I've never spoke about Moyes so how could I repeat it?

17th, 14th, 13th, 16th, 15th
5 years before Moyes took charge

7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th - in his first 5 years

Even an idiot like you should be able to see that he stabilised the club, we were abysmal when he took over and let's not forget he done all that with no money

Infact Bob Zopiclone I'd go as far as to say we probably would've ended up being relegated if he never took over

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueski on September 12, 2017, 12:18:10 AM
Another window means giving him more money to spend, he's already had more since he's been here than Moyes did during his whole reign at the club, saying that he needs to buy a striker or two I know, but his signings are pretty poor & the thing which worries me most is that he doesn't seem to have a clue how he wants to play which you'd hope he would have figured out by now considering most of the team are now players he's signed
for me its too early to tell whether Koeman is good enough

you say about the money to spend but the finances of the club and entire league has improved dramatically. because of this the general cost of players has also increased. so to say he's been given more is true but in 1980 gas was cheaper too, loaf of bread, etc. It was possible to get a proven midfielder for £10m at the time, now the going rate is considerably higher for proven talent - so for me that argument doesn't really work

as for the striker thing its really hard on the outside to know whose fault that is but publicly he was asking for 1-2 at various points in the window so it seems like he wanted one

as for the quality of his signings I'm not seeing the issue - its a mixed bag like any manager but no doubt several have been very very good. Sandro for example might be easy to criticise but also look at the context - is £5m or whatever he cost a bad punt when the going rate for any type of competent PL striker is over £30 - we got what we paid for with him - a squad player who might or might not adapt to the league. Are you critical of the manager's signings or just the general price of players right now which is admittedly ridiculous



Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 12, 2017, 12:25:30 AM
for me its too early to tell whether Koeman is good enough

you say about the money to spend but the finances of the club and entire league has improved dramatically. because of this the general cost of players has also increased. so to say he's been given more is true but in 1980 gas was cheaper too, loaf of bread, etc. It was possible to get a proven midfielder for £10m at the time, now the going rate is considerably higher for proven talent - so for me that argument doesn't really work

as for the striker thing its really hard on the outside to know whose fault that is but publicly he was asking for 1-2 at various points in the window so it seems like he wanted one

as for the quality of his signings I'm not seeing the issue - its a mixed bag like any manager but no doubt several have been very very good. Sandro for example might be easy to criticise but also look at the context - is £5m or whatever he cost a bad punt when the going rate for any type of competent PL striker is over £30 - we got what we paid for with him - a squad player who might or might not adapt to the league. Are you critical of the manager's signings or just the general price of players right now which is admittedly ridiculous

The general prices are daft but I don't rate his signings, I know he's bought one or two good players and it's too early to tell on the players he bought in this window (apart from Sandro - he's pony) but you'd expect him to get one or two right at least. I wouldn't be confident throwing more money at him nor do I think he's the man to move us to the next level
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueski on September 12, 2017, 12:42:09 AM
The general prices are daft but I don't rate his signings, I know he's bought a few good players and it's too early to tell on the players he bought in this window but you'd expect him to get one or two right at least. I wouldn't be confident throwing more money at him nor do I think he's the man to move us to the next level
when you say throw more money at him do you mean Koeman, who says he wants a striker or Walsh who is the one who identifies the targets and/or the board who buys the targets. change koeman and its still the same Walsh and board identifying targets and buying players

something didn't work right this window but its hard to see what part was the issue, the manager, the director of football or the board which for me is the reason its too early.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 12, 2017, 12:59:46 AM
when you say throw more money at him do you mean Koeman, who says he wants a striker or Walsh who is the one who identifies the targets and/or the board who buys the targets. change koeman and its still the same Walsh and board identifying targets and buying players

something didn't work right this window but its hard to see what part was the issue, the manager, the director of football or the board which for me is the reason its too early.

I imagine RK shot down a few names suggested to him and stamped his feet about a few unattainable target men. It was a fuck up and they should all probably hold their hands up to some degree.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 12, 2017, 04:36:13 PM
when you say throw more money at him do you mean Koeman, who says he wants a striker or Walsh who is the one who identifies the targets and/or the board who buys the targets. change koeman and its still the same Walsh and board identifying targets and buying players

something didn't work right this window but its hard to see what part was the issue, the manager, the director of football or the board which for me is the reason its too early.

Yet it is obvious Koeman wanted Siggurdson . If you give him credit then give him and not Walsh a bit of stick for our striker absence . After all it was Koeman and not Walsh who didn't want to rely on a target man .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: JordanianEmbassy on September 12, 2017, 06:07:45 PM
After all it was Koeman and not Walsh who didn't want to rely on a target man .

What makes you say that?

We had a deal agreed for signing Giroud, but his wife talked him out of it. Thats why we've got a severe shortage of strikers in the squad.  Obviously we now need someone else instead, and I'm sure they (ie Koeman and Walsh, and everyone else who is has any understanding of football) understand that... but we didn't get it sorted out before the transfer window closed.  So its going to have to be THE priority for January.

btw I'm assuming by target man you mean any sort of centre forward :)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 12, 2017, 06:43:31 PM
What makes you say that?

We had a deal agreed for signing Giroud, but his wife talked him out of it. Thats why we've got a severe shortage of strikers in the squad.  Obviously we now need someone else instead, and I'm sure they (ie Koeman and Walsh, and everyone else who is has any understanding of football) understand that... but we didn't get it sorted out before the transfer window closed.  So its going to have to be THE priority for January.

btw I'm assuming by target man you mean any sort of centre forward :)

I thought experience may have taught you that Evertons deadline day " We had a deal in place " was best taken with a rather large pinch of the white stuff .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GLewis on September 12, 2017, 06:44:19 PM
I thought experience may have taught you that Evertons deadline day " We had a deal in place " was best taken with a rather large pinch of the white stuff .

It wasn't deadline day it was weeks before.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 12, 2017, 06:49:17 PM
It wasn't deadline day it was weeks before.

That doesn't make the shambles any better though does it . I also don't see the situation where Koeman has no input other than coaching who Walsh gets in . Sloping shoulders .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 12, 2017, 07:06:52 PM
Koeman basically said it all in the pre match conference to spurs,

he said options 1 and 2 where a no, and that options 3-6 wher too expensive for him, even tho their where pnety of other strikers who came to epl teams on the final day.. but i guess they wasnt who we where looking at. (Everton chose not to sign any of them)
but any striker would have been a welcome bonus, but instead we have Big Niassety back...

this is the interview, please listen to it.



we need to stop debating the striker issue, Koeman has stated why we didnt do what he said we would do,
yes its fucked up, but we cant just keep changing things to suit our own version of events.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Sir Stealth on September 12, 2017, 08:07:44 PM
When I reflect back now over Koemans reign so far I can't remember many good performances at all, which is a little worrying after about 50 games in charge.I don't like to add to the doom and gloom but...

There is no chance we are going to win a trophy with Ronald Koeman as manager is there?

Someone please save this, post as your signature and ridicule me as the Europa League this season turns out to be the 3rd trophy he wins with us!

This isn't to say that he won't leave us in a better position to that which he joined us in, which could be seen as progress still in some people's eyes. I want a trophy though
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 12, 2017, 10:19:33 PM
Four home wins on the bounce coming up

Sunderland
Bournemouth
Limassol
Burnley

Contract extension, Ron?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 12, 2017, 10:27:03 PM
Four home wins on the bounce coming up

Sunderland
Bournemouth
Limassol
Burnley

Contract extension, Ron?

We're averaging less than 2 shots on target per game, don't hold your breath
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 12, 2017, 10:47:36 PM
Bournemouth and Burnley will know all about our troubles and will think a point is a decent result. Dyche will have two banks of four and we'll be booed off at half-time after not troubling Heaton. Eddie Howe might be a little more open but after their start I wouldn't bank on it. I'd love to be proved wrong like.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mac934 on September 12, 2017, 10:51:19 PM
He needs the season. January will be key as to whether we can get the striker we need in.

We all knew the start of the season would be hard. I wouldn't have expected more than 4 points realistically speaking from the games played to date. I'd have expected a draw at home to Spurs while getting beaten by City. I doubt we'll get anything out of Utd next weekend either, but from then on, we need to be picking up points and I'm sure we will.
But as been said elsewhere, it's not the points total, it's the way we are playing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 12, 2017, 10:52:41 PM
Bournemouth and Burnley will know all about our troubles and will think a point is a decent result. Dyche will have two banks of four and we'll be booed off at half-time after not troubling Heaton. Eddie Howe might be a little more open but after their start I wouldn't bank on it. I'd love to be proved wrong like.

Heaton is crocked :)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 12, 2017, 10:54:00 PM
Heaton is crocked :)

They could still play him and he wouldn't be troubled much.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 12, 2017, 10:55:44 PM
They could still play him and he wouldn't be troubled much.

I commend thine rapid wits sire!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Thornton_19 on September 12, 2017, 10:57:16 PM
People do realise that in our opening 4 games we have played statistically the best 2 defences from last year. Maybe that has something to do with our low shot count.....no? Too logical I'll move along.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 12, 2017, 11:27:50 PM
People do realise that in our opening 4 games we have played statistically the best 2 defences from last year. Maybe that has something to do with our low shot count.....no? Too logical I'll move along.

does that count for Kiev, Stoke and Ruzobrek awell?

why cant people see that we have no attacking game plan, that we have the wrong players in the wrong positions,
hence why we have a low shot count and find it impossible to create attacking play.

thats the logic that i see,  i accept we played against 2 of the best league teams from last season, but we have played 5 other games... why are you discounting how we have played in those games?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 12, 2017, 11:33:43 PM
People do realise that in our opening 4 games we have played statistically the best 2 defences from last year. Maybe that has something to do with our low shot count.....no? Too logical I'll move along.

We've played another 6 games this season as well, should we have expected more in them? Or maybe we were just bedding in new players and getting up to speed. Who knows.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 12, 2017, 11:40:05 PM
We've played another 6 games this season as well, should we have expected more in them? Or maybe we were just bedding in new players and getting up to speed. Who knows.


seems like some Evertonians like ignoring the facts, maybe the new players will be settled by January. maybe they wont be, as the team is probably the most un balanced team in the premier league (besides palace and west ham)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 12, 2017, 11:46:36 PM

seems like some Evertonians like ignoring the facts, maybe the new players will be settled by January. maybe they wont be, as the team is probably the most un balanced team in the premier league (besides palace and west ham)

Alright mate, let's not go overboard yet hey.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 12, 2017, 11:50:28 PM
Alright mate, let's not go overboard yet hey.
no where near overboard

the only overboard thing i wrote was tongue in cheek, being as un balanced as west ham or palace..

its just when people use 'logic' when they aint even seeing the full picture, or they have biased opinions, that they apply the 'logic' to.

im pretty sure we'll come good, but calling out logic, when others have different views, that are based on logic, is stupid, especially discounting all of the facts, and just using the 2 games that prove your logic.. lulz.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Buck76 on September 13, 2017, 12:21:13 AM
no where near overboard

the only overboard thing i wrote was tongue in cheek, being as un balanced as west ham or palace..

its just when people use 'logic' when they aint even seeing the full picture, or they have biased opinions, that they apply the 'logic' to.

im pretty sure we'll come good, but calling out logic, when others have different views, that are based on logic, is stupid, especially discounting all of the facts, and just using the 2 games that prove your logic.. lulz.

West Ham looked pretty balanced last night, we've only had 7 shots on target in 4 games and should be at least creating the chances no matter who we're playing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 13, 2017, 02:23:28 AM
After Sunday's game, we'll have played the four best teams in the Premier and the three best, away

A win and a draw would have been predicted at the start of the season and we have the four points - mission accomplished

The four qualifying Europa games? We've qualified and made the group stage - mission accomplished

It is the following four successive games at Goodison that Koeman & Co are under pressure for improved (winning)form - judgement reserved





Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 13, 2017, 02:58:01 AM
After Sunday's game, we'll have played the four best teams in the Premier and the three best, away

A win and a draw would have been predicted at the start of the season and we have the four points - mission accomplished

The four qualifying Europa games? We've qualified and made the group stage - mission accomplished

It is the following four successive games at Goodison that Koeman & Co are under pressure for improved (winning)form - judgement reserved







People aren't talking about the results though. They are talking about some pretty shambolic displays

If I got beat by Usain bolt in the 100 it would be expected. If my legs fell off after 50 metres they'd be a bigger issue going forwards to my race against Stephen Hawking
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 13, 2017, 03:04:33 AM
As originally quoted above

"improved form" (have we got the legs or will the wheels fall off?)

And results count
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 13, 2017, 03:29:28 AM
As originally quoted above

"improved form" (have we got the legs or will the wheels fall off?)

And results count

I'm not sure results count if your argument is we weren't expected to get much and haven't.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: benny on September 13, 2017, 04:17:52 AM
People do realise that in our opening 4 games we have played statistically the best 2 defences from last year. Maybe that has something to do with our low shot count.....no? Too logical I'll move along.

                 get your coat
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 13, 2017, 04:49:43 AM
Anyone know how many shots we've had in target?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 13, 2017, 05:01:42 AM
Anyone know how many shots we've had in target?


People were saying 6 after 3 games and I believe we had 1 against Spurs. 7 after 4??

There were comments on twitter after 3 games that 2 or 3 Liverpool players had had more individually than we had as a team

Of course playing hard teams hasn't helped but we were pretty shite against an average stoke team and pretty shite in the Europa league too. The evidence suggests we've just been pretty shite rather than we've come up against better teams
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on September 13, 2017, 05:21:11 AM
(http://cas.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1002/sarchasm-sarcasm-the-most-delicious-of-the-humors-demotivational-poster-1266401781.jpg)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 13, 2017, 05:32:58 AM
i posted the stats from the premier league site the other day, its 7 on target in 4 games.

https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/7/Everton/stats

you have to set the filter box to this season.


Attack
Goals 2
Goals Per Match 0.50
Shots 35
Shots On Target 7
Shooting Accuracy % 20%
Penalties Scored 0
Big Chances Created 3
Hit Woodwork 0
Team Play
Passes 1,699
Passes Per Match 424.75
Pass Accuracy % 78%
Crosses 69
Cross Accuracy % 30%


Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on September 13, 2017, 05:41:11 AM
Far too early to vindicate the hysteria some are showing.

I'm not a fan of Ronald Koeman but it's four matches into the premier league season and we've got four points.

However, I don't subscribe to the excuse of "We've played Chelsea and Spurs, what do you expect?" because neither of those two have had to get out of first gear to beat us. That's exactly what I hate most about Everton. So often we go against these teams who are only the next step up and we look, and normally set up like a league two team. I wanted to see our attitude, performance and results take a significant jump against those teams this season and Koeman is falling well short so far.

He still has time to put that right though and he has two massive targets for me this season.

1 - He simply has to improve our performances against those above us. Yes, we might not have the players to match them but they're the next step. Tottenham forced their way into the mix under Pochettino and that was after replacing Bale with an array of sub-standard players so it can be done and really, there's plenty of scope to improve in that regard.

2 - We have to make the SF of a cup. Ordinarily I'd say a trophy but sometimes luck goes against you or you run into better teams. That isn't what happened last season though and  losing to Sunderland and Leciester at home to exit the cups is nowhere near good enough for a club in our position. We've got three shots at Silverware this season and there's no excuses for any of our players considering most have played in European competition. If we repeat last year, finish 7th (or less) and go out in like the round of 16 in Europe, that's not good enough.

He did enough last season because expectations were low. He got us back into 7th with the 7th best team in the league and he got the players fit and professional again. The expectations have to be a lot bigger now because we've been stagnant in this league for the best part of a decade and we seem to make zero progress into breaking into the top tier of the league.


Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 13, 2017, 05:43:16 AM
i posted the stats from the premier league site the other day, its 7 on target in 4 games.

https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/7/Everton/stats

you have to set the filter box to this season.


Attack
Goals 2
Goals Per Match 0.50
Shots 35
Shots On Target 7
Shooting Accuracy % 20%
Penalties Scored 0
Big Chances Created 3
Hit Woodwork 0
Team Play
Passes 1,699
Passes Per Match 424.75
Pass Accuracy % 78%
Crosses 69
Cross Accuracy % 30%

35 not on target from 4 games doesn't sound quite as bad though (although it's still not great).

The exceptionally low number of shots on target says as much about Sandro's tendency to panic and snatch at his shots, as it does about our ability to fashion any decent chances in a game.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Thornton_19 on September 13, 2017, 06:12:19 AM
                 get your coat
Your not my type mate.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Waltzer on September 13, 2017, 10:32:56 AM
I was extremely happy when we got Koeman and I still am. My worry is tendency to keep trying things that don't work, like 3 at the back. I'm also disappointed with our recruitment during the summer, the lack of pace, imbalance in the team is there for all to see, but is that Walshs fault. I don't think he should be sacked, but he should be under pressure as at the moment the team looks very poor.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 13, 2017, 03:06:59 PM
35 not on target from 4 games doesn't sound quite as bad though (although it's still not great).

The exceptionally low number of shots on target says as much about Sandro's tendency to panic and snatch at his shots, as it does about our ability to fashion any decent chances in a game.

You can try and spin it but 7 shots on the opposition goal in 4 games is pretty poor. Burnley caused Spurs and Chelsea more problems and we play them in a few weeks. It's not the results that everyone is concerned about, it's the performances.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 13, 2017, 03:42:19 PM
You can try and spin it but 7 shots on the opposition goal in 4 games is pretty poor. Burnley caused Spurs and Chelsea more problems and we play them in a few weeks. It's not the results that everyone is concerned about, it's the performances.

I'm not defending the performances, Spurs and Chelsea were utter shite (people do seem to be airbrushing the City game out of memory though, where we did well for most of the first half). But with statistics in football, it's all spin.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 13, 2017, 03:48:55 PM
I'm not defending the performances, Spurs and Chelsea were utter shite (people do seem to be airbrushing the City game out of memory though, where we did well for most of the first half). But with statistics in football, it's all spin.

Doing well for most of one half is about all we can muster these days though. I'm not too sure it's to be applauded when we were abysmal in the second half of the same game against 10 men.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 13, 2017, 04:20:13 PM
Doing well for most of one half is about all we can muster these days though. I'm not too sure it's to be applauded when we were abysmal in the second half of the same game against 10 men.

Again, no applauding from me. Just another counterpoint to the doommongers who reject any narrative that doesn't say everything has gone to shit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 13, 2017, 04:29:45 PM
Again, no applauding from me. Just another counterpoint to the doommongers who reject any narrative that doesn't say everything has gone to shit.

But that's not what people are saying though, maybe the odd one. The rest are raising quite legitimate points about the standard of football we're playing and how little attacking threat we have mustered.

It's usually the first barometer in the season to evaluate after 10 games to see how things have progressed, or not, and to give an indication of where we are heading. We're 8 games in now so maybe a realistic shout would be to take stock after the Man U game and draw our conclusions then.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 13, 2017, 04:31:44 PM
But that's not what people are saying though, maybe the odd one. The rest are raising quite legitimate points about the standard of football we're playing and how little attacking threat we have mustered.

It's usually the first barometer in the season to evaluate after 10 games to see how things have progressed, or not, and to give an indication of where we are heading. We're 8 games in now so maybe a realistic shout would be to take stock after the Man U game and draw our conclusions then.

Probably still not quite fair as they're in good form and we're likely in for a hiding.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 13, 2017, 04:52:19 PM
Probably still not quite fair as they're in good form and we're likely in for a hiding.

So what do we do then, do we wait until we've played a run of easier games which takes us to 15 games in before Lyon until we're allowed to make a fair judgement of this seasons progress. If we would have suggested back in July that we'd need to have played 15 games to get a fair idea of how we're doing we all would have quite rightly scoffed at that but maybe we need to.

I know we've been dealt a relatively challenging run of fixtures first up but this season is where Koeman asked to be judged so after 15 games then you'd really have expected us to have maximum points in Europe, be through to the next round of the league cup and to have a minimum 13 points in the league. That's substituting the unlikely point we got away at City for a point at home to Spurs, which had it been the other way round would have been slightly more palatable.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on September 13, 2017, 04:54:11 PM
all this talk about poor performances and results etc...

2 simple questions.....what would you prefer.....

shite performance, 1 shot on goal and win 1-0?

great performance 34 shots on goal lose 1-0 ?

I know which I prefer....and then you'll all be moaning you cant get tickets for the games.....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 13, 2017, 05:30:51 PM
So what do we do then, do we wait until we've played a run of easier games which takes us to 15 games in before Lyon until we're allowed to make a fair judgement of this seasons progress. If we would have suggested back in July that we'd need to have played 15 games to get a fair idea of how we're doing we all would have quite rightly scoffed at that but maybe we need to.

I know we've been dealt a relatively challenging run of fixtures first up but this season is where Koeman asked to be judged so after 15 games then you'd really have expected us to have maximum points in Europe, be through to the next round of the league cup and to have a minimum 13 points in the league. That's substituting the unlikely point we got away at City for a point at home to Spurs, which had it been the other way round would have been slightly more palatable.


Well I mean to be honest there's nothing we can do either way, i'd be very surprised and frankly disappointed if Koeman was sacked after facing united stoke city Chelsea and Spurs.

Just have to sit tight and see if he can turn it around. He did last year and he did at Southampton, and when he came out the other side the teams went on winning streaks I think.

Season is young. Disappointed with the transfer window and frankly I think 7th is the absolute best we can hope for, but the season is young and there's plenty of football to be played so no need to panic just yet.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 13, 2017, 05:35:04 PM
Well I mean to be honest there's nothing we can do either way, i'd be very surprised and frankly disappointed if Koeman was sacked after facing united stoke city Chelsea and Spurs.

Just have to sit tight and see if he can turn it around. He did last year and he did at Southampton, and when he came out the other side the teams went on winning streaks I think.

Season is young. Disappointed with the transfer window and frankly I think 7th is the absolute best we can hope for, but the season is young and there's plenty of football to be played so no need to panic just yet.

Yeh I'm not on board with all this sacking nonsense, it's frankly a bonkers shout born out of a lot of frustration I can only imagine.

We do need to raise the bar when it comes to expectations though. I don't think incremental progress is good enough this season with the money we have spent and the money he is paid. He has to deliver a clear step change in output in terms of both results and performances once we've had time to bed the new group in.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 13, 2017, 05:46:15 PM
all this talk about poor performances and results etc...

2 simple questions.....what would you prefer.....

shite performance, 1 shot on goal and win 1-0?

great performance 34 shots on goal lose 1-0 ?

I know which I prefer....and then you'll all be moaning you cant get tickets for the games.....

Yeah sure we'd all want to upset the analysts and win a season's worth of jammy 1-0's but I think the idea is that jammy results will generally run their course and you'll get found out whereas a team playing good, effective football and putting plenty of well positioned shots on the board will eventually get out of losing jammily and start picking up wins.

Luckily for us, we're not playing well and we're not getting results so we don't have to worry about that 🙄
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 13, 2017, 06:38:29 PM
Well I mean to be honest there's nothing we can do either way, i'd be very surprised and frankly disappointed if Koeman was sacked after facing united stoke city Chelsea and Spurs.

Just have to sit tight and see if he can turn it around. He did last year and he did at Southampton, and when he came out the other side the teams went on winning streaks I think.

Season is young. Disappointed with the transfer window and frankly I think 7th is the absolute best we can hope for, but the season is young and there's plenty of football to be played so no need to panic just yet.

I think 7th is the best you can hope for if you keep taking 10 games to get going . Like you say it is a trait with his teams . Maybe next season we might hit the ground running no matter who the fixture list throws up . Least of all we might start the season with a best 11 , a system and a style of play .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on September 13, 2017, 06:48:46 PM
Yeah sure we'd all want to upset the analysts and win a season's worth of jammy 1-0's but I think the idea is that jammy results will generally run their course and you'll get found out whereas a team playing good, effective football and putting plenty of well positioned shots on the board will eventually get out of losing jammily and start picking up wins.

Luckily for us, we're not playing well and we're not getting results so we don't have to worry about that 🙄

I'm not talking "jammy" 1-0's....just 1-0's and yet Liverpool did it throughout the 70's & 80's very successfully...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Toddacelli on September 13, 2017, 06:56:30 PM
Anyone who thought we'd hit the ground running with half a new squad, injuries to key players and Barkley in limbo wants to have a look at themselves.

Or start a thread like this.




(https://68.media.tumblr.com/8259a4cca05a37f5f489675729adb19c/tumblr_nzrfvdVl3E1tpri36o1_400.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 13, 2017, 07:57:03 PM
I think 7th is the best you can hope for if you keep taking 10 games to get going . Like you say it is a trait with his teams . Maybe next season we might hit the ground running no matter who the fixture list throws up . Least of all we might start the season with a best 11 , a system and a style of play .

An 11 that have all met before might be all we need.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 13, 2017, 08:15:03 PM
An 11 that have all met before might be all we need.


In all fairness though 8 of the 11 who started the last game of the season were in the squad on Saturday . He had a full pre season with 80% of his squad . Like I said before I don't mind loosing I mind playing shite . We are talking about a football match not  a swingers party .

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 13, 2017, 08:30:46 PM
Anyone who thought we'd hit the ground running with half a new squad, injuries to key players and Barkley in limbo wants to have a look at themselves.

Or start a thread like this.




(https://68.media.tumblr.com/8259a4cca05a37f5f489675729adb19c/tumblr_nzrfvdVl3E1tpri36o1_400.gif)

Is anyone actually saying that? Think people are saying we had no chance of hitting the ground running because there's numerous problems that haven't been addressed
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gary1878 on September 13, 2017, 09:45:30 PM
It should go without saying that this is the hardest start we have ever had to a Premier League season. By far. We all know that the result and performance against Spurs was atrocious, and there are concerns about having no proper striker and a massive lack of pace.

But we have done what we probably would have expected out of some of the toughest games we will face.

If i said that we would get the following results before the season kicked off, you probably would have accepted it:

Stoke H - Win
City A - Loss
Chelsea A - Loss
Spurs H - Draw

So really it makes little difference to our overall season that we came away with a bonus point at City and got spanked against Spurs. It very well could have been the other way round, and we wouldn't have batted an eyelid at it.

United is another tough game for us, and I would expect another loss on the board. But the season really gets started after this, when we can look to pick up a bunch of wins in a row.

We also have a team that have barely played together, and have just played the favourites, champions, and second placed team from last year. Be realistic and understand that this project will take time.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 13, 2017, 09:58:59 PM
It should go without saying that this is the hardest start we have ever had to a Premier League season. By far. We all know that the result and performance against Spurs was atrocious, and there are concerns about having no proper striker and a massive lack of pace.

But we have done what we probably would have expected out of some of the toughest games we will face.

If i said that we would get the following results before the season kicked off, you probably would have accepted it:

Stoke H - Win
City A - Loss
Chelsea A - Loss
Spurs H - Draw

So really it makes little difference to our overall season that we came away with a bonus point at City and got spanked against Spurs. It very well could have been the other way round, and we wouldn't have batted an eyelid at it.

United is another tough game for us, and I would expect another loss on the board. But the season really gets started after this, when we can look to pick up a bunch of wins in a row.

We also have a team that have barely played together, and have just played the favourites, champions, and second placed team from last year. Be realistic and understand that this project will take time.



You're making something that isn't the issue the issue though. No one is complaining about results. They are complaining about the performances and suggesting it's to do with a lack of balance, a lack of pace, a lack of width, a lack of a striker

If I'd of said we wouldn't sign a striker, we won't sign any attacking pace, we won't sign decent cover for Coleman... we will sign Sigurdsson instead for 45m. People firstly would have laughed and then said if it was the case wed be in for a long slog in terms of creating chances

The performances so far aren't what have people worried. It's the huge holes in our team that can't be fixed by them playing a few more games together
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gary1878 on September 13, 2017, 10:17:24 PM
You're making something that isn't the issue the issue though. No one is complaining about results. They are complaining about the performances and suggesting it's to do with a lack of balance, a lack of pace, a lack of width, a lack of a striker

If I'd of said we wouldn't sign a striker, we won't sign any attacking pace, we won't sign decent cover for Coleman... we will sign Sigurdsson instead for 45m. People firstly would have laughed and then said if it was the case wed be in for a long slog in terms of creating chances

The performances so far aren't what have people worried. It's the huge holes in our team that can't be fixed by them playing a few more games together

To some extent I agree. However, I wouldn't suggest there are huge holes in our team. Our whole front 4 has never played together and people are wondering why we look lost as a team?

Just because they are quality players who we have paid a large sum of money for doesn't mean that they don't need time to bed in. It will take several weeks/months of daily training and playing together to start to see results. These things do not happen overnight, and a few bad performances early in the season against extremely good opposition does not mean that our whole squad is f****d.

Give it a good amount of time before judging the squad and its deficiencies.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: hannu on September 13, 2017, 10:20:39 PM
Anyone who thought we'd hit the ground running with half a new squad, injuries to key players and Barkley in limbo wants to have a look at themselves.

Or start a thread like this.




(https://68.media.tumblr.com/8259a4cca05a37f5f489675729adb19c/tumblr_nzrfvdVl3E1tpri36o1_400.gif)

we havent started the season running, not even a light jog, id be happy if we was even walking but seems we are in a wheelchair
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 13, 2017, 10:32:23 PM
Dead right, Gary1878

A 0-0 draw in Italy tomorrow should calm things down
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 13, 2017, 11:49:49 PM
The best thing said on here is that we do not mind losing a game but we do mind playing shite. (and being described on MOD as  "awful").
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 14, 2017, 12:04:33 AM
i didnt expect us to get anything from the teams who finished above us.

i atleast expected us to be Everton and turn up for a football match.

why do people keep reverting to.. it was a hard start? top teams.. etc.. it just looks like they dont read the posts of the people who are complaining at the lack of structure our football team has on the pitch.

really cant wait til we start playing mid table teams.
that way other people will see what we have been stating and they cant say 'derpderp top 6 team'
or we actually start to put some performances together and start climbing up the table..

either way, its going to get better than its been.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 14, 2017, 12:26:47 AM
i didnt expect us to get anything from the teams who finished above us.

i atleast expected us to be Everton and turn up for a football match.

why do people keep reverting to.. it was a hard start? top teams.. etc.. it just looks like they dont read the posts of the people who are complaining at the lack of structure our football team has on the pitch.

really cant wait til we start playing mid table teams.
that way other people will see what we have been stating and they cant say 'derpderp top 6 team'
or we actually start to put some performances together and start climbing up the table..

either way, its going to get better than its been.
No problem with getting beaten by a good side but we should at least be looking like we are playing in the same league....in the Spurs and Chelsea games i really felt we looked as though we had gone backwards massively.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on September 14, 2017, 12:31:54 AM
The best thing said on here is that we do not mind losing a game but we do mind playing shite. (and being described on MOD as  "awful").
Sod motd they always hated us anyway ...that's why we are always last on ....even when we had a few good wins last year always last or second to last bar Sunderland 😅😅
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Fynci on September 14, 2017, 12:52:52 AM
This thread is almost as embarrassing as the one suggesting DCL was 'our Harry Kane'. After this weekend we will have played 4 of the toughest teams in the division, the team is made up of new players, and will take time to gel. Poor form NSNO forum.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 14, 2017, 01:07:10 AM
I do not believe for one moment we are hated on MOTD. What hurts is that our long term decline in comparison with those we used to consider our equals,  i.e. the present so-called top 6, means we are disregarded by the soccer media. Bournemouth get as much respect as we do.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 14, 2017, 01:16:45 AM
This thread is almost as embarrassing as the one suggesting DCL was 'our Harry Kane'. After this weekend we will have played 4 of the toughest teams in the division, the team is made up of new players, and will take time to gel. Poor form NSNO forum.


what do you think of the really tough 2 teams we have played in the Europa league??

how do you equate them compared to 4 toughest teams in our division?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 14, 2017, 01:26:51 AM
This thread is almost as embarrassing as the one suggesting DCL was 'our Harry Kane'. After this weekend we will have played 4 of the toughest teams in the division, the team is made up of new players, and will take time to gel. Poor form NSNO forum.

You expect them to get faster? To play with more natural width? For a targetman to reveal where he's been hiding since he signed?

Sometimes time isn't the issue. Sometimes it just won't gel because of a lack of balance

Also why is it embarrassing. Next to no one thinks he should be sacked
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GLewis on September 14, 2017, 01:29:46 AM
There is the possibility that we're just not playing well.

It's just that it's the start of the season therefore more noticeable.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: wepull on September 14, 2017, 02:59:54 AM
People talk about it being a new team which is agreed, but we got most of the guys pretty early in the window, and isn't the point of getting them early is because they can be really up to pace when the season starts.

The only time we played well was against Split in the first half of home leg when we started with players who could play as wingers and had a bit of pace. I am quite unsure why we didn't start with the same team again so far. We are surely lacking balance in the current line up.

Surely too early to call for his head, but even after spending so much and getting in pretty decent players except for maybe a striker, we play such an insipid brand of football against top teams then we should be concerned.

I am sure we will get results, as we have personnel who are quite better than the team below us.  But we really do need to see that would we ever be ready to challenge the teams above us, if not this season then probably the next season.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 14, 2017, 03:12:58 AM
There is the possibility that we're just not playing well.

It's just that it's the start of the season therefore more noticeable.

Of course. There's a possibility this 3 10s thing is the new face of football. Pace and strikers might be overrated.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GLewis on September 14, 2017, 03:15:55 AM
Of course. There's a possibility this 3 10s thing is the new face of football. Pace and strikers might be overrated.



They've played together once so I doubt that's been the general cause.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 14, 2017, 03:25:01 AM
They've played together once so I doubt that's been the general cause.

No it's not so much them but a lack of any genuine pace, width or even a focal point. We opted for all the 10s instead of these things or at least that's how we ended up
They aren't so much the problem but the solution would lead to some of them not getting in the team. Bolasie, lookman, Lennon, DCL. Might not work either because there's big question marks against all of these but least they'd bring some balance
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: hill135 on September 14, 2017, 03:38:08 AM
If I hear the phrase 3 number 10s once more i think I'm gonna go postal
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 14, 2017, 03:51:22 AM
If I hear the phrase 3 number 10s once more i think I'm gonna go postal

(http://i.imgur.com/gKPRxTD.jpg)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 14, 2017, 02:54:54 PM
This thread is almost as embarrassing as the one suggesting DCL was 'our Harry Kane'. After this weekend we will have played 4 of the toughest teams in the division, the team is made up of new players, and will take time to gel. Poor form NSNO forum.

Because we are the only team in the league to add new players . That aside the manager has had 13 months to at least formulate a system irrespective of the players . We spent a fortune by our clubs standards and from the chelsea game last season to the one I watched this season we have done nothing major with that money . The ones who have come in look no better than the ones who left ( at the minute ) . I would be disappointed if that didn't change over the next few weeks but not surprised if it doesn't .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 14, 2017, 03:25:38 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/515ed3718186974b7df25a4ac232d0e3/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 14, 2017, 04:05:07 PM
i didnt expect us to get anything from the teams who finished above us.

i atleast expected us to be Everton and turn up for a football match.

why do people keep reverting to.. it was a hard start? top teams.. etc.. it just looks like they dont read the posts of the people who are complaining at the lack of structure our football team has on the pitch.

really cant wait til we start playing mid table teams.
that way other people will see what we have been stating and they cant say 'derpderp top 6 team'
or we actually start to put some performances together and start climbing up the table..

either way, its going to get better than its been.

Lad, nobody is happy with the football we've played.

Nobody is using the tough start as an excuse.

Some of us are looking at the other side of the coin rather than reaching for the fucking kool-aid.

I'm not saying don't flog the horse because frankly it's important that we're under performing, but please don't think that there's anyone on the other side of this argument, or that you are in some way more prescient or perceptive than other posters who don't constantly repeat themselves.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 14, 2017, 04:14:27 PM

what do you think of the really tough 2 teams we have played in the Europa league??

how do you equate them compared to 4 toughest teams in our division?



Mate it doesn't really matter. What's been and gone is done. We've all seen our struggles against good teams and average teams. We know there is an issue but the games are coming thick and fast now so it either gets better or it doesn't and we can comment and pass judgement either way.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: plumber on September 14, 2017, 05:31:44 PM
Could we close this silly thread please? This forum looks like poor man's RAWK with it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueMaquis on September 14, 2017, 05:42:43 PM
Could we close this silly thread please? This forum looks like poor man's RAWK with it.

Let's have a poll.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 14, 2017, 05:59:40 PM
Lad, nobody is happy with the football we've played.

Nobody is using the tough start as an excuse.

Some of us are looking at the other side of the coin rather than reaching for the fucking kool-aid.

I'm not saying don't flog the horse because frankly it's important that we're under performing, but please don't think that there's anyone on the other side of this argument, or that you are in some way more prescient or perceptive than other posters who don't constantly repeat themselves.


there have been posters who have stated categorically that our tough start is the reason for our shit performances.. so many posters have said.. we have played the champions/runners up/spurs etc,.

i had found myself repeating myself, but only in replying to posters posts, theres no point repeating, when the poster doesnt even read or understand what im saying, and they just come back with.. played last years top 3..
im not more perceptive and i dont have the time machine Sir Stealth had for the Man utd match report.. 

im not trying to repeat myself, was trying to have conversations.. but most of the time i try to be amusing but my jokes i guess are shit.

apologizes to all.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on September 14, 2017, 06:32:30 PM
Because we are the only team in the league to add new players . That aside the manager has had 13 months to at least formulate a system irrespective of the players . We spent a fortune by our clubs standards and from the chelsea game last season to the one I watched this season we have done nothing major with that money . The ones who have come in look no better than the ones who left ( at the minute ) . I would be disappointed if that didn't change over the next few weeks but not surprised if it doesn't .

sorry but that comment is completely lost on me!!!!   it suggests the system is more important than players...

the systems don't make players.....the players make the system..
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 14, 2017, 06:41:43 PM
sorry but that comment is completely lost on me!!!!   it suggests the system is more important than players...

the systems don't make players.....the players make the system..

So by trading roughly 30 odd players in and out during the last 15 months are you suggesting our highly paid manager is just the winging it without any strategy?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 14, 2017, 06:50:27 PM
sorry but that comment is completely lost on me!!!!   it suggests the system is more important than players...

the systems don't make players.....the players make the system..

Not really. You'd like to try and find a happy medium in so much that at first you create a system to get the best out of what players you inherit and then over time to buy players that you think may best work within a system you are building towards. You don't just keep selling the below par and buying lots of better players to throw them together hoping it all comes off. 
Not that that's what I think Koeman is necessarily doing but that's what it seems you're intimating is the way it should be done.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on September 14, 2017, 07:40:31 PM
So by trading roughly 30 odd players in and out during the last 15 months are you suggesting our highly paid manager is just the winging it without any strategy?

Not at all where have I even suggested that ?

There's a vast difference between a strategic plan and a line up formation?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on September 14, 2017, 07:43:35 PM
Not really. You'd like to try and find a happy medium in so much that at first you create a system to get the best out of what players you inherit and then over time to buy players that you think may best work within a system you are building towards. You don't just keep selling the below par and buying lots of better players to throw them together hoping it all comes off. 
Not that that's what I think Koeman is necessarily doing but that's what it seems you're intimating is the way it should be done.

sorry totally disagree.... you don't build your squad/team around a formation....you build your formation around your players...

if I'm reading you correct (and I may not be) what you're saying would suggest you could choose a formation then basically buy players to play in that formation...meaning it's the formation that brings the "success" not the players....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 14, 2017, 09:05:46 PM
Not at all where have I even suggested that ?

There's a vast difference between a strategic plan and a line up formation?

You questioned @SANA_DR0 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=6573) when he said we should have a system in place by saying "the players make the system", well seeing as Koeman has overseen massive changes in personal in the last 15 months, to great expense, you'd imagine the players brought in would have been with some kind of system in mind? You know like some kind of strategic planning has been involved...

Or are you suggesting we're just buying players randomly hoping to stumble onto something?




Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 14, 2017, 09:23:40 PM
sorry totally disagree.... you don't build your squad/team around a formation....you build your formation around your players...

if I'm reading you correct (and I may not be) what you're saying would suggest you could choose a formation then basically buy players to play in that formation...meaning it's the formation that brings the "success" not the players....

It's not either or.

Koeman was clearly in the market for a certain type of striker to suit how he wants to play. A target man, someone to play off and bring others into the game around him. He couldn't get one so we decided not to buy. There were plenty of strikers available who he could have bought, like Javier Hernandez for example, but they wouldn't have fit the way Koeman wants to play.

If you play a possession based game you're not going to buy Peter Crouch. If you're a 'pragmatic' manager like Sam Allardyce who plays the percentages you're not going to buy a fair weather player like Mesut Ozil.

A manager will, if given time, try to develop a system and way of playing and buy better players who he thinks will fit into that.

Or maybe I have it wrong.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: dax78 on September 14, 2017, 09:34:00 PM
I realise forums are there to encourage debate, but this thread is idiotic.
We can have this discussion at the end of the season, but surely not now. This thread offends rational thinking.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 14, 2017, 10:02:12 PM
sorry but that comment is completely lost on me!!!!   it suggests the system is more important than players...

the systems don't make players.....the players make the system..

Thank you for highlighting 2 things the 2nd being your own stupidity .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 15, 2017, 12:37:39 AM
Do you know what I know I've been critical so far this season but this is worse than i thought. Utter dogshit.

I can honestly say that I don't think many managers in the prem could have done worse with the amount of money spent. We are as bad as I be seen us in like forever.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bogie on September 15, 2017, 12:42:52 AM
Taxi for Koeman
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 12:44:06 AM
Yes.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 15, 2017, 12:46:10 AM
Yes.
I was up for giving him the season but I've changed my mind.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: nwatson on September 15, 2017, 12:47:29 AM
Another shambles. The guy is fecking clueless. If he had any dignity he would resign tonight. He needs sacked immediately.
Ps this isnt a knee jerk. We have played pathetic football since day 1 and hes run out of excuses.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 12:47:31 AM
I was up for giving him the season but I've changed my mind.

Can't do what we did with Martinez. Give him enough time to completely ruin the squad.

We need to see the signs and address them asap.

Another game like this and Spurs and he needs to go.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Polledreng on September 15, 2017, 12:47:45 AM
Please let me change my vote.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 12:48:35 AM
We are so so shit under this useless joke
I don't see things getting any better
On the flip side @MartinezsLeftTeste (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3905) how you feeling about our bet?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: charlatan on September 15, 2017, 12:49:55 AM
Don't think sacking him now is gonna help.  The unbalanced squad we have just blown £150m on is bordering on criminal
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 15, 2017, 12:50:48 AM
He looks as distraught as I can remember on the touchline.

Hopefully this shambles can be a catalyst for a turn around /clutching at straws because it can't get much worse!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Thornton_19 on September 15, 2017, 12:50:49 AM
I've defended our performances this season. Not this one, shite team selection. They don't believe in him clearly.
The defending is awful.

He bought all these players and doesn't have any idea how to play them together.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 15, 2017, 12:50:58 AM
Words cannot express what a poor job hes done....he fell into the trap of overpaying for average players because they were the best at poor teams and put together a team with no shape, fight, pace or value. Dogshit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on September 15, 2017, 12:52:35 AM
This is beyond Martinez shit ....and I proper hated that guy ...but by all accounts we are completely devoid of football now compared ....knee jerk is one thing but with zero sign of it getting better ,maybe cut our loses and fuck this idiot off .....lost my respect no management skills to speak of at all ....id be up for the Rhino taking over if there is no upturn in the next few games .....its RK's team now and nothing but shit performance after shit performance.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 15, 2017, 12:52:57 AM
.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Sir Stealth on September 15, 2017, 12:53:22 AM
Sometimes you just know when someone isn't going to turn it around

There's no positives at the moment with how we are playing. We haven't played good football at all with him as manager. He's stubborn and he doesn't learn from his mistakes

He comes across as a bit of a prick as well and hasn't really had much success as a manager. He doesn't seem to have a good working relationship with the players or with Steve Walsh which is a bit worrying

It's ok giving a manager time if players are getting used to a system or if you are heading in the right direction, but right now and pretty much for the past year it's been dull football and a system with no shape to it
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: phillyt on September 15, 2017, 12:53:23 AM
No. Fucking ridiculous question. That performance yesterday was poor but Jesus Christ talking of sacking the man what the actual fuck?

The people clamouring for koeman to be sacked are probably the types who happy clapped kenwright and wanted to give Martinez till Christmas/end of the season/Christmas/end of the season. Probably sitting there over a wetherspoons breakfast calling moshiri a fraud.

Martinez delivered performances like that against the likes of hull fucking city and people were wanking themselves silly about how fucking clever he was.

Just no.



Right now in the heat of the moment I'm ready to turn this post around and say fuck yeah sack the rubber faced  mayonnaise loving twat.  This isn't City/spurs/Chelsea. This isn't tired from 3 games in a week. This is a decent Italian team but nothing special. So far this performance is worse than anything I witnessed under Martinez.

This is a huge knee jerk, and in no way is it a definitive position. But short of a miracle comeback I'll be having a browse of the tickets for the koeman out bus.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 15, 2017, 12:54:12 AM
Calm down lids . We will get something off Bournemouth ............................. .........
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 12:55:22 AM
The squad is an expensive mess, lots of shit players who we've massively overpaid for
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 15, 2017, 12:55:53 AM
Right now in the heat of the moment I'm ready to turn this post around and say fuck yeah sack the rubber faced  mayonnaise loving twat.  This isn't City/spurs/Chelsea. This isn't tired from 3 games in a week. This is a decent Italian team but nothing special. So far this performance is worse than anything I witnessed under Martinez.

This is a huge knee jerk, and in no way is it a definitive position. But short of a miracle comeback I'll be having a browse of the tickets for the koeman out bus.
Fair play for holding your hands up.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bogie on September 15, 2017, 12:56:35 AM
Don't think sacking him now is gonna help.  The unbalanced squad we have just blown £150m on is bordering on criminal

when then after we go out of both cups and he gets to spend more money

everyone new the 3 spots we needed filling and we got 0 of the 3

back playing 4 2 3 1 wtf

question 1 in the next interview for the job
do you fucking no how to play 4 4 2  yes  good the jobs yours
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: duncandisorderly on September 15, 2017, 12:57:31 AM
I'm definitely knee jerking, but we're going backwards with him charge.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 15, 2017, 12:57:31 AM
Imagine if he wore brown shoes . Meltdown .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 12:57:45 AM
I told everyone how shit Koeman is
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bogie on September 15, 2017, 12:59:11 AM
The squad is an expensive mess, lots of shit players who we've massively overpaid for

2-2 at home last night not bad
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 15, 2017, 12:59:17 AM
I told everyone how shit Koeman is


Good for fucking you.  i hate these lads who revel in the shite. Have a fucking medal.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 12:59:34 AM
I told everyone how shit Koeman is


Made up for you mate
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 01:00:52 AM
Good for fucking you.  i hate these lads who revel in the shite. Have a fucking medal.

Audrey is the chairwoman of the Realist fan club
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: charlatan on September 15, 2017, 01:04:55 AM
I wanted Martinez out in December of his second season, after the Soton away game.  Up until tonight I have been 100% behind Koeman.  After tonight he can fuck off.  The summer window was a fucking disgrace.  How anyone could think buying 4 no 10's without filling the blatent holes in the squad at CF and CB, not to mention left back cover and wingers is beyond me.  Like watching fucking paint dry. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 15, 2017, 01:11:14 AM
Some on here remind me of when I watch a shite game to jinx 'em (worked at Watford and City so far). Happy when we lose to vindicate shite opinions.

p.s. ignore poster is a bit wank when everyone else keeps quoting him :hmph:
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Everton Mint on September 15, 2017, 01:19:08 AM
Should we sack Koeman? YES.

The very fact there is a thread this early in the season after spending £150m means there is a SERIOUS problem.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 15, 2017, 01:33:46 AM
I told everyone how shit Koeman is


Klopp is amazing though isn't he
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 01:36:49 AM
Klopp is amazing though isn't he

Go on son revert to type, I'm a red now because I was right
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 15, 2017, 01:37:12 AM
I'd take Pulis over this Muppet and his face bothers me immensely.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 01:38:18 AM
£500k/month. He's not arsed either way really. We can pay him this much to work or to play golf. Our choice.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 15, 2017, 01:39:33 AM
£500k/month. He's not arsed either way really. We can pay him this much to work or to play golf. Our choice.
2nd option for me.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 15, 2017, 01:40:48 AM
Go on son revert to type, I'm a red now because I was right



No reverting to anything at all, but you are a red, and its sad that you have to join an Everton forum to get your kicks
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 01:42:37 AM

No reverting to anything at all, but you are a red, and its sad that you have to join an Everton forum to get your kicks

But I'm not tho. Let me guess your next move - I'm a troll?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 15, 2017, 01:46:31 AM
But I'm not tho. Let me guess your next move - I'm a troll?

No next move, your utter negativity towards all things Everton since you joined has confirmed it
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 15, 2017, 01:46:42 AM
Klopp is amazing though isn't he

was talking to my liverpool supporting mate today and all i could say was, i wish we attacked like that, fuck the defending and mistakes, least they have an identity in the way klopp sets up and plays.

id love to see any sort of attacking intelligence, passing/moving, making runs, quick interplay from our players.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 01:47:23 AM
I'd sack him tonight.

Things will only get worse.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: mikey_blue on September 15, 2017, 01:48:58 AM
It's far too early to start for these sacking calls!... 90 minutes ago.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 15, 2017, 01:49:16 AM
was talking to my liverpool supporting mate today and all i could say was, i wish we attacked like that, fuck the defending and mistakes, least they have an identity in the way klopp sets up and plays.

id love to see any sort of attacking intelligence, passing/moving, making runs, quick interplay from our players.
That's the thing that's annoying, when they got battered by City at least they were in the game until the sending off. Tonight against average opposition we literally could and probably should have lost by 8. Painful.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 15, 2017, 01:51:28 AM
It's far too early to start for these sacking calls!... 90 minutes ago.
Like I said I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt until end of the season but that performance along with the previous two was a defining moment imo.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 15, 2017, 01:54:24 AM
It's going nowhere with him, sooner rather than later, otherwise it's shit street.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 15, 2017, 01:55:54 AM
I'd sack him tonight.

Things will only get worse.

You know what, fuck it I'm in.

I would also like to understand exactly who is culpable for the abject failure that was our transfer window.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 15, 2017, 01:58:43 AM
Re-phrase the question:

Has Koeman had enough and will he resign?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bogie on September 15, 2017, 01:59:50 AM
Re-phrase the question:

Has Koeman had enough and will he resign?



lol hope so
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 15, 2017, 02:00:20 AM
Re-phrase the question:

Has Koeman had enough and will he resign?

Answer: No he won't because he'd forfeit a massive pay off
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 02:01:03 AM
No next move, your utter negativity towards all things Everton since you joined has confirmed it

There's nothing to be positive about
If you can find positives in the state we're in you're either extremely optimistic or delusional
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 02:02:39 AM
Re-phrase the question:

Has Koeman had enough and will he resign?



500 thousand smackers in his account every month.

Rephrase the question: Would you?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Thornton_19 on September 15, 2017, 02:04:04 AM
Tuchel is available like. That is what sways me.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 15, 2017, 02:04:17 AM
It would probably be wiser to give Koeman time to fix things.

Unless Tuchel wants in. Then sack the bastard.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: hannu on September 15, 2017, 02:04:55 AM
sack him
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 15, 2017, 02:05:11 AM
Reputation on the line

Players seem disinterested?

Money's not everything!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 15, 2017, 02:06:33 AM
I think a better question for discussion might be "Does Moshiri have any clue about how to clean the backroom mess up?"

Because (1) we know Kenwright and Elstone don't, and (2) clearly the Koeman/Walsh relationship isn't functioning properly.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 15, 2017, 02:06:38 AM
You know what, fuck it I'm in.

I would also like to understand exactly who is culpable for the abject failure that was our transfer window.
If Koeman goes then he'll drag Walsh down with him and it all crumbles like a house of cards. I still blame Walsh more than Koeman it's an unbalanced squad due to Walsh.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 02:08:34 AM
If we sack him we could sell all his signings and give the new manager the full £30m to rebuild
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 15, 2017, 02:08:46 AM
It would probably be wiser to give Koeman time to fix things.

Unless Tuchel wants in. Then sack the bastard.



Yeah, I do think Koeman will likely figure things out as the season goes on, but I've wanted Tuchel since Moyes left so I'd be inclined to move for him if it was an option.

I don't think that's at all likely though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 15, 2017, 02:09:53 AM
If Koeman goes then he'll drag Walsh down with him and it all crumbles like a house of cards. I still blame Walsh more than Koeman it's an unbalanced squad due to Walsh.

It's impossible to tell without inside knowledge. We don't know what ideas get knocked down. Some players seem very much just from Koeman's list too.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 15, 2017, 02:10:06 AM
Tuchel is available like. That is what sways me.
...and he says 'this is an ageing, unbalanced squad. It'll take another £150m and 3 or 4 transfer windows for us to get back into the top 7'.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 15, 2017, 02:10:12 AM
If we sack him we could sell all his signings and give the new manager the full £30m to rebuild

Excellent
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 15, 2017, 02:14:37 AM
NO!! WE are not Crystal Palace. Give him more time and then wield the axe. It is clear the players do not believe in him. Some of them are crap anyway, but other decent players are not performing. Sigurdsson, Keane, Rooney are good players. The rest are not up to much admittedly.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 02:14:45 AM
You know what, fuck it I'm in.

I would also like to understand exactly who is culpable for the abject failure that was our transfer window.

Mate, he's completely drained the life out of the club and it shows on the pitch.

It took me two and a half years to finally say I want Martinez out. Took just over a year with this fella.

He's spent 140mil on players with good stats and just threw them together expecting results.

He's fell out with every creative player we have.

He's not using anyone who'll provide a bit of pace and excitement and has filled the squad with reliable players over anyone with quality.

It may be a bit knee jerk calling for his head at this point, but what I've watched over the last three games is a team with not idea as to what their tactical approach is, a team with no personality, creativity, pace, and quality.

A team full of midtable solid premier league players, managed by someone living off his name who's making it up as he goes along.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: hill135 on September 15, 2017, 02:15:01 AM
We look a god awful team and I'd be perfectly relaxed to see him go.

But I can't see Kenwright giving him the shove a few games in to the season, after spending an absolute wedge on building the squad in his image.

Also, what managers are considering offers from other clubs in September? Not many, unless they're out of work. Tuchel would be the dream and maybe realistic but the idea of us adopting his style of football with some our players fills me with dread!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 15, 2017, 02:15:33 AM
We should persevere with Koeman; see how he is getting on when the season settles down. Enticing Sam Allardyce out of retirement is not going to change our fortunes. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 02:17:02 AM
We look a god awful team and I'd be perfectly relaxed to see him go.

But I can't see Kenwright giving him the shove a few games in to the season, after spending an absolute wedge on building the squad in his image.

Also, what managers are considering offers from other clubs in September? Not many, unless they're out of work. Tuchel would be the dream and maybe realistic but the idea of us adopting his style of football with some our players fills me with dread!

We are now stuck in a bad situation, who's gonna fancy coming in and sorting out the absolute mess he's created?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 15, 2017, 02:18:01 AM
Tuchel, Fuchel Buchel, what other names do you pull out of the hat? What crap. Knee jerk reaction naming any fucker you last heard of and know fuck all about.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 15, 2017, 02:18:12 AM
We should persevere with Koeman; see how he is getting on when the season settles down. Enticing Sam Allardyce out of retirement is not going to change our fortunes.
Take him over koeman in heartbeat even though he is vile.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 02:19:54 AM
Tuchel, Fuchel Buchel, what other names do you pull out of the hat? What crap. Knee jerk reaction naming any fucker you last heard of and know fuck all about.
Have you watched any games this season? It's hardly knee jerk
We've looked like something mildly resembling a team in about two halfs of footy in the whole season so far
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 15, 2017, 02:20:03 AM
Take him over koeman in heartbeat even though he is vile.

And we set our ambitions back by five years.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 02:20:53 AM
And we set our ambitions back by five years.

Koeman has already put us back 2 at the very least
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: hill135 on September 15, 2017, 02:21:12 AM
Also, while Koeman deserves the criticism he's getting, a lot of our players need to look at themselves.

Kev sulking cos he's not in the line-up, Jags refusing to pass the ball short, Williams just being fat and shit, Baines playing within himself, Schniederlin refusing to pass the ball forwards until the second half, and so on and so on. They're a bunch of bad bells who need to improve their attitudes
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 15, 2017, 02:22:09 AM
On the bright side, and once again I mean it, he has now demanded a response from the players after an abject 0-3 home defeat and been rewarded with an abject 3-0 away defeat.

I think we should all RELAX on the basis such a public rallying cry having no discernable effect is about as embarrassing as it gets for a manager, it's no surprise he's holding his hands up.

Koeman is either going to squeeze a response from the players out soon or he is fast making his own position untenable!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 15, 2017, 02:25:25 AM
Koeman has already put us back 2 at the very least

No he hasn't. We are going through a tough period that comes with the big change in our approach over the last eighteen months; pretty much the first tough period in fact. If people thought it was going to be plain sailing that's their look out. It's time to hold our nerve.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 15, 2017, 02:25:39 AM
Baines playing within himself
It's been a good couple of years now.

Think he might just be past it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 15, 2017, 02:25:43 AM
If Koeman goes then he'll drag Walsh down with him and it all crumbles like a house of cards. I still blame Walsh more than Koeman it's an unbalanced squad due to Walsh.

Its Koemans fault the squad is so unbalanced, he asked Walsh to get him 5 number 10's. (to score 10-15 goals a piece to make up for Lukakus' goals)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Heisenberg on September 15, 2017, 02:27:31 AM
The lack of striker will be the end of me. Ive never been so annoyed at our transfer business, which says alot considering I'm a transfer fume merchant
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Tinga on September 15, 2017, 02:27:36 AM
I want to change my vote. Not that it matters, he wont be sacked, we'll give him another 2 years. Even if he does go, who'd take this shite team over?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Robioto on September 15, 2017, 02:28:08 AM
I'd give him 3 more games and expect to see a marked improvement in each respective performance.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on September 15, 2017, 02:31:54 AM
Something seems seriously wrong at the club. My enormous worry is despite having all these new players in, Koeman doesn't seem to know what to do with them even though he will have asked for them. The other huge concern is our transfer strategy, while I'm glad we brought in a new defender and goalkeeper and tried bolstering our side with other players like Rooney, Klaassen and Sandro, we have no cover for Baines at left back and we didn't bring in another striker to replace Lukaku.

Koeman won't be sacked now, it would make Kenwright and Moshiri look like right numpties to do it so early in the season so he will be given time - whether that pays off or not we will have to wait and see, otherwise the fans will become more vocal and I expect less people will come to home and away games and some form of protest will occur either at Goodison or another function especially if Koeman is in attendance.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 15, 2017, 02:48:47 AM
Well the only achievement i can see so far is when koeman said it will take a while for the players to stop passing it sideways and backwards
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 15, 2017, 03:20:31 AM
Mate, he's completely drained the life out of the club and it shows on the pitch.

It took me two and a half years to finally say I want Martinez out. Took just over a year with this fella.

He's spent 140mil on players with good stats and just threw them together expecting results.

He's fell out with every creative player we have.

He's not using anyone who'll provide a bit of pace and excitement and has filled the squad with reliable players over anyone with quality.

It may be a bit knee jerk calling for his head at this point, but what I've watched over the last three games is a team with not idea as to what their tactical approach is, a team with no personality, creativity, pace, and quality.

A team full of midtable solid premier league players, managed by someone living off his name who's making it up as he goes along.



Only thing stopping me from going 100% is that you then hire someone who has 4 months of a totally unbalanced squad. Not very fair.

Seasons gone, we threw it away when we chased siggurdsson for 3 months instead of addressing actual squad problems.

Not sure koeman's the problem to be completely honest. He got 7th out of a shite team last year, albeit a shite team with one world class player. The transfer window however is just absolutely unforgivable. I don't care if we've spent money, we fucked it up and its potentially ruined the fucking season.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 15, 2017, 03:25:00 AM
We were not shite last season, don't be fucking stupid. We were 7th by a mile. If we were shite what does that make the others who were so far behind us? Why was the ground full every game  if we were shite? We are certainly shite now but don't start pretending we were last season.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 15, 2017, 03:40:00 AM
The lack of striker will be the end of me. Ive never been so annoyed at our transfer business, which says alot considering I'm a transfer fume merchant
We basically can't fix things until we get a striker. All this talk about the manager and performance and confidence all comes back around to the fact we haven't got a striker. Fundamentally, can't play how we want to play and how we've prepared to play all summer. We can try and be pragmatic and scrap wins but playing well will mean the manager will have to figure out some other way of playing. And it's not just about missing a key component of your tactics, you want someone on the pitch who can score fucking goals. Even top, well drilled teams will have off days when they'll rely on their striker to turn/win a game out of nothing. We haven't got that.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KingOfNapaValley on September 15, 2017, 03:47:20 AM
Not a good week to be a Dutch manager.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: charlatan on September 15, 2017, 03:48:55 AM
Let's be honest, we're going to get reamed one way or the other by Utd.  The 4 games after that are all easily winnable.  Any less than 4 wins from them and it's goodnight
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Confucius on September 15, 2017, 03:55:05 AM
Tuchel, Fuchel Buchel, what other names do you pull out of the hat? What crap. Knee jerk reaction naming any fucker you last heard of and know fuck all about.

HAHAHA! You such an idiot. @kramer0 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) Knows Tuchel better than anyone bar Tuchel himself. What an diotic person you are. @kramer0 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) Gonna gets you.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 15, 2017, 03:57:15 AM
We were not shite last season, don't be fucking stupid. We were 7th by a mile. If we were shite what does that make the others who were so far behind us? Why was the ground full every game  if we were shite? We are certainly shite now but don't start pretending we were last season.

We got results but at times it was painful to watch and the football was dire at times . Luckily Lukaku was arsed enough to get us in a false position . Koeman couldn't really do any wrong given the toxic atmosphere that grew around all things Martinez .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: D3blue on September 15, 2017, 04:02:02 AM
Something is seriously wrong.  Good players don't become  incompetent when they come to Everton...for example Sig is a proven quality player.   Despite what some here are saying, we haven't bought £100m worth of duds.   However teams like WBA and Stoke, who have spent much less, are playing better than us..

The problem is that RK is not getting performances from the players...so the buck stops with the manager...
I don't believe he has a plan and I don't think he really 'gets' Everton


Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 15, 2017, 04:04:39 AM
There has been some bad shouts over the years on here, but the last few pages on here top the list.

We were beating city until the very last minute just a couple of weeks ago, the same City who wallopped the shite 5-0 the other day.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 15, 2017, 04:05:10 AM
Hypothetical question, but in the era of short-term, 3 year long manager spells, how much benefit is there really to gain from patience?

I'm not sure either Everton or Koeman expected his tenure to last more than 3 years. Given that, I'm not sure there's a great Howard Kendall/Alex Ferguson style argument to keep a manager that you're not convinced by.

As I say, this is all hypothetical and me just thinking out loud. But if there was another decent manager we could bring in, what are the advantages of not doing that?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: cantoffee on September 15, 2017, 04:17:03 AM
I think results will pick up in time but he really needs to sort out our away form.

I think our home form will come around but away form has been a problem since he took over and we look no closer to resolving that.

I don't see the point in sacking him, see if he can start turning things around by Christmas.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 15, 2017, 04:18:24 AM
its is idiotic not diotic. Your spelling and your English need serious attention. Did you pay attention at school?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 15, 2017, 04:21:11 AM
We were not shite last season, don't be fucking stupid. We were 7th by a mile. If we were shite what does that make the others who were so far behind us? Why was the ground full every game  if we were shite? We are certainly shite now but don't start pretending we were last season.

I said a shite team
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 15, 2017, 04:23:20 AM
its is idiotic not diotic. Your spelling and your English need serious attention. Did you pay attention at school?

People make spelling mistakes. It happens.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 15, 2017, 04:25:50 AM
"its is" Got me there ! Hee Hee. Put it down to anger after tonight.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 15, 2017, 04:28:59 AM
Something is seriously wrong.  Good players don't become  incompetent when they come to Everton...for example Sig is a proven quality player.   Despite what some here are saying, we haven't bought £100m worth of duds.   However teams like WBA and Stoke, who have spent much less, are playing better than us..

The problem is that RK is not getting performances from the players...so the buck stops with the manager...
I don't believe he has a plan and I don't think he really 'gets' Everton




Is Sigurdsson proven quality? He's a playmaker with open play stats similar to gareth Barry. I don't think he's proven anything. He took all the set plays for a team set up to be good at set plays and they scored 4 or 5 more than we did from ours. I think he's proven average with good corners. I might be being generous too. His playmaking skills were on a par with our defensive midfielder we let go on a free. Horrendous signing. It's literally like we only saw how many fantasy football points he got
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 15, 2017, 04:30:22 AM
There seems to be a continuing trend from where Martinez left off- the style, the lack of pride, no fight, certain players not being arsed...... I'm inclined to think it ain't just Koeman, but Ferguson too.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: School of Science on September 15, 2017, 04:43:18 AM
For me it's the formations, it's like the players don't know what is expected of them and where to play. It's the square pegs in round holes, players playing out of position, Rooney and Sigurdsson on the wings today, not exactly pacy are they. It's the amount of changes per game, six tonight, how are they supposed to get settled get to know how each other play ?
It's like Koeman is trying to shoehorn all his signings in to the detriment of the team. He needs to play a settled, balanced team and if he wants to change personnel, bring them on off the bench.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 15, 2017, 04:44:43 AM
 :Holgate:

https://twitter.com/Andyvdmeyde7/status/908444168065835008
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on September 15, 2017, 04:49:44 AM
Hypothetical question, but in the era of short-term, 3 year long manager spells, how much benefit is there really to gain from patience?

I'm not sure either Everton or Koeman expected his tenure to last more than 3 years. Given that, I'm not sure there's a great Howard Kendall/Alex Ferguson style argument to keep a manager that you're not convinced by.

As I say, this is all hypothetical and me just thinking out loud. But if there was another decent manager we could bring in, what are the advantages of not doing that?

One of my concerns about sacking the manager and bringing another in is that the next manager may have a completely different philosophy and he might look at the squad and decide - "apart from a few players here I need a squad overhaul, get rid of these Koeman rejects etc". Then if things go tits up with The next manager then another would be appointed with another completely different approach and preference for certain players.

In the last 5 years we've seen the club's football philosophy change radically due to the managerial changes and I am quite confused as to the club's football identity. We risk becoming a Sunderland or QPR type of club with a lack of a clear footballing plan and structure so we never really know how to move forward as we don't know how to utilise our investments properly.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Confucius on September 15, 2017, 04:54:33 AM
It's that bad that I think Moyes will be an improvement.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Buck76 on September 15, 2017, 04:59:00 AM
He should Sack Himself, something's gone rotten behind the scenes, surely someone has been questioning the decisions! Every time we hit the field the body language & tactics get worse, there has been no segments of any game we've been proper at it, even if we've not had any end product! In the Zone? Twightlight fucking Zone would be an improvement!

Dunc's in the dressing room FFS, how do we enter the Field like a bunch of clueless pussies! WTF is Plan A????

You can forgive giving your all with a game plan and getting battered, but not giving a shit when your fans have spent a fortune to get over there is a disgrace!!! It'll be Unsi's Dogs Of War soon if things carry on like this....

Just had to go out for some Havana....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 15, 2017, 05:00:19 AM
I wonder what Ranieri would do with our squad, be great to pair him up with Walsh again :D

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 15, 2017, 05:02:52 AM
It's that bad that I think Moyes will be an improvement.

Moyes would be able to do more with this squad, he seemed to be a great motivator,  he always did very well with hardly any resources.. he may have been a stubborn fuck, but he did us well.

maybe rhino with moyes would be a good interim choice..

all hypothetically speaking... i still dont want koeman sacked, but im glad he is taking responsibility. Hopefully he will change our style of play.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 15, 2017, 05:06:38 AM
Omg Moyes with Unsworth. Fucking kill me now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on September 15, 2017, 05:07:19 AM
Come on lads, lets stop all this Moyes and Unsworth nonsense.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Sir Stealth on September 15, 2017, 05:07:59 AM
It's bad, but it's not 'Moyes back would be an improvement' bad

He is totally finished
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 15, 2017, 05:08:40 AM
hahah

I dont know no NSNO'ers to die cos of me.. no more rhiyes talk :S

depressing stat from the bbc

Everton have managed four shots on target in their past three matches. Their opponents have had 21 shots on target in those games.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 15, 2017, 05:08:49 AM
I wonder what Ranieri would do with our squad, be great to pair him up with Walsh again :D



God help us.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 15, 2017, 05:08:58 AM
Hope I calm down soon because I'm still extremely not arsed if he goes.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 05:09:06 AM
Interesting read.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 15, 2017, 05:12:58 AM
Come on lads, lets stop all this Moyes and Unsworth nonsense.

Why is unsworth nonsense. He'd be unproven but that doesn't mean he couldn't do a great job.

People seem obsessed with proven (players and managers) but the reality is what we can attract of proven quality is a Sigurdsson for 45m or a koeman on 150k a week. I'd sooner take more risks with more potential rewards
It's all very well saying unsworth should go elsewhere first but then we might never get another chance. I'm not saying he's the right man but it's not nonsense to suggest he might be
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on September 15, 2017, 05:15:00 AM
Why is unsworth nonsense. He'd be unproven but that doesn't mean he couldn't do a great job.

People seem obsessed with proven (players and managers) but the reality is what we can attract of proven quality is a Sigurdsson for 45m or a koeman on 150k a week. I'd sooner take more risks with more potential rewards
It's all very well saying unsworth should go elsewhere first but then we might never get another chance. I'm not saying he's the right man but it's not nonsense to suggest he might be

It is.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 15, 2017, 05:16:33 AM
Interesting read.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport

Absolute last thing I need right now
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 05:25:20 AM
God that article is scary.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 15, 2017, 05:28:51 AM
Think koeman needs to go if we fuck the next month up

Shouts of unsworth... Moyes... Ranieri

Fucking hell
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 05:30:17 AM
Why does Moyes even get mentioned.

No offence like but you're a proper simpleton if you bring up Moyes in any capacity.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 15, 2017, 05:30:56 AM
It is.

It's nonsense to say unsworth might become a great manager. Might have a higher ceiling than a koeman or a Martinez (2 that will have cost us 30m in payouts if koeman went now)? I disagree. Obviously it depends on what else is on offer to us but I'd swap koeman for unsworth today
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 15, 2017, 05:33:31 AM
Interesting read.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport

There are some disturbing parallels there.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 15, 2017, 05:34:57 AM
There are some disturbing parallels there.

 I said that a few days ago and its nearly 10 years ago
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Buck76 on September 15, 2017, 05:36:51 AM
Interesting read.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport

Genuinely fear the Rot has set in... maybe worth getting spanked to move on.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on September 15, 2017, 05:41:07 AM
It's nonsense to say unsworth might become a great manager. Might have a higher ceiling than a koeman or a Martinez (2 that will have cost us 30m in payouts if koeman went now)? I disagree. Obviously it depends on what else is on offer to us but I'd swap koeman for unsworth today

I've read that about five times and still haven't a clue what you're saying but to promote Unsworth as manager just screams of lack of ambition.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 15, 2017, 06:11:41 AM
Anyone think it's more likely Steve Walsh will be sacked?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 15, 2017, 06:12:26 AM
Or will Moshiri assume full control and bin off Kenwright?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: ally2 on September 15, 2017, 06:33:21 AM
Of course he shouldn't be sacked. This forum is a nightmare since we got money. It's just football. People really need to relax. And the shouts of Tuchel make me laugh. If some of our fans weren't impressed with Koeman's lack of touchy-feelyness, then Tuchel is on a whole new level. That guy is seriously intense. He needs oiling and recharging, not food and water.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ramjam on September 15, 2017, 06:39:24 AM
Benitez anyone?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 15, 2017, 06:52:55 AM
The Koeman/Walsh relationship is probably the most interesting thing about this. Is Walsh doing an outright horrible job of identifying suitable targets? Or is Koeman shooting his targets down because he doesn't like them? Or did Koeman and Walsh both think this mess of squad was a good idea? Or are Kenwright and Elstone secretly sabotaging them in the negotiating room?

It was mentioned on the podcast that Koeman needs to see the players personally before he signs off on them. If true, that's a totally fucked process. We shouldn't be assigning any weight to Koeman's player evaluations unless he's seeing the player for a full season's worth of games (which I seriously doubt is the case) and even then, I'm skeptical. For the scouting team to watch a player for a full season (or over multiple seasons), put the player forward as a suitable target, then have their opinions dismissed because the boss saw him once or twice and didn't like him... yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Koeman's only role should be to confirm that he'll be able to get along with players personally. He needs to trust the scouting team that the players fit the criteria he's given them.

(Again, all based on rumours. We don't really know what the process is. All we know is that it isn't working.)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 07:49:24 AM
How would Moyes do any worse then what Ronald McDonald is doing right now?
Moyes only left because he went to a club who'd actually give him some money to spend.
He pretty much saved Everton and finished 4th with no money when he really had no right to
He turned us from a team who were probably gonna sink to the championship and maybe lower into a regular top 10 team again
You all have short memories
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 15, 2017, 07:53:08 AM

Moyes is fucking shit. He has failed at every club he has been at. He may of steadied our ship but we failed with every opportunity we had to push on. We failed in the champions league, we failed in the Europa League, we failed in the cup final, we failed in the semi finals, we failed at every single top 4 away ground.....he fucking failed.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jamokachi on September 15, 2017, 07:55:45 AM
Happy to see Unsworth given a shot. Mad, me.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 07:56:22 AM
And all these shouts of I wouldn't have this one or that one - wow
What top manager or even just below elite coach is gonna look at us as an attractive opportunity?

We've got a director of football who allegedly picks targets so no one knows what the hell is going on & an owner who comes on sky sports news at the end of the window to discuss the business and what the first team is or isn't capable of doing because he's Jim Whites mate ffs

Sorry to break it to you's but we're a farce right now
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jamokachi on September 15, 2017, 07:58:05 AM
What top manager or even just below elite coach is gonna look at us as an attractive opportunity?

With the money on offer, both in the transfer market and in terms of salary, plenty.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 07:58:24 AM
Moyes is fucking shit. He has failed at every club he has been at. He may of steadied our ship but we failed with every opportunity we had to push on. We failed in the champions league, we failed in the Europa League, we failed in the cup final, we failed in the semi finals, we failed at every single top 4 away ground.....he fucking failed.

Have a look at what he spent I think you've got a cheek asking him to win at top 4 teams & in Europe  on a league 2 budget
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 08:00:40 AM
With the money on offer, both in the transfer market and in terms of salary, plenty.

You don't know the budget so your point is invalid
Also on wages lots of teams can now offer managers attractive salaries
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 15, 2017, 08:00:40 AM
Have a look at what he spent I think you've got a cheek asking him to win at top 4 teams & in Europe  on a league 2 budget

Look at other poor teams though Realist, they won at those grounds, some even won the cup! When he had resources, he failed again, at United, then he failed at Sociedad, then at Sunderland...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jamokachi on September 15, 2017, 08:02:30 AM
You don't know the budget so your point is invalid
Also on wages lots of teams can now offer managers attractive salaries

I can see how much we spent, so no, that's not invalid. Koeman is the 11th best paid manager in World Football. We can attract plenty.

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/highest-paid-football-managers/
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 08:04:37 AM
Look at other poor teams though Realist, they won at those grounds, some even won the cup! When he had resources, he failed again, at United, then he failed at Sociedad, then at Sunderland...

He wasn't given a fair shot at United or Sociedad & Sunderland well they're just Sunderland
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 08:05:32 AM
I can see how much we spent, so no, that's not invalid. Koeman is the 11th best paid manager in World Football. We can attract plenty.

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/highest-paid-football-managers/

How much did we spend? After money in and TV money?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 15, 2017, 08:05:49 AM
Of course he shouldn't be sacked. This forum is a nightmare since we got money. It's just football. People really need to relax. And the shouts of Tuchel make me laugh. If some of our fans weren't impressed with Koeman's lack of touchy-feelyness, then Tuchel is on a whole new level. That guy is seriously intense. He needs oiling and recharging, not food and water.

Tuchel and Favre are difficult for sure, but (1) they have a lot of good ideas about how to win football matches, and (2) they do a good job of communicating those ideas to their players. As long as the players are set up to succeed and doing their jobs effectively, they can be as intense or surly as they like. We only focus on personalities when things go wrong; nobody cares when we're winning.

My current issue with Koeman is that the players look like they've barely met and that typically runs deeper than "the new signings needing time to gel" or "we didn't get a forward." Most of these guys have been here since early in the summer and it doesn't feel like we're Olivier Giroud and a LCB/LB hybrid away from having a coherent game plan.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 15, 2017, 08:06:31 AM
He wasn't given a fair shot at United or Sociedad & Sunderland well they're just Sunderland

Ok if thats what you think...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 08:07:39 AM
Ok if thats what you think...

They're not opinions they're facts
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 15, 2017, 08:08:51 AM
They're not opinions they're facts

yep, ok.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kewns23 on September 15, 2017, 08:11:29 AM
I'd like to know unworthy record at u23
Compared to previous managers

I know he bomb at Preston I think ?

It be interesting to see/ compare
And what kind of tactics doe she play ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueski on September 15, 2017, 08:17:37 AM
Part of me remembers how poor city were for a bit after Mansour started the business of putting that club on the map of world football

The other part of me remembers that they had to go through a few managers on the way to doing it
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jamokachi on September 15, 2017, 08:28:04 AM
How much did we spend? After money in and TV money?

It doesn't matter about what came in... money still went out. A hell of a lot of money, 150m plus. Keep peddling the buy to sell myth, Moshiri fraud crap all you want. The evidence shows that we're spending on transfer fees, wages, stadium improvements, new stadium plans and more. I know this doesn't suit your agenda, but we're not "haven't got a pot to piss in little ol' Everton" anymore.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kewns23 on September 15, 2017, 09:09:34 AM
As much I don't like koeman he has too be given time

However saying he needs to stick too a team / tactic all this changing doesn't help build a team.

I think the players are like us how fuck we gonna score no pace or forwards lol
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ramjam on September 15, 2017, 09:15:40 AM
I don't know where we go from here to be honest, my gut feeling says give him another month as we have had an extremely challenging start to the season, however by then we will probably be out of Europe and the cup so the only things left to complete for would be league position and an FA cup run. To bring in another manager now wouldn't solve the immediate problems nor wouldn't it mean that he would be a success either, catch 22
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: karling1972 on September 15, 2017, 10:15:38 AM
I for one have never been a fan of his man management  skills since the way he dealt with Leon Osman and Tony Hibberts departure . he seems to throw his dummy out  of the pram  very easily .... A manager I have always admired  in his man managment Skills is Sam Alerdyce..  do we give Ron more time ? or admit the wrong players have been bought in or played
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 10:18:33 AM
It doesn't matter about what came in... money still went out. A hell of a lot of money, 150m plus. Keep peddling the buy to sell myth, Moshiri fraud crap all you want. The evidence shows that we're spending on transfer fees, wages, stadium improvements, new stadium plans and more. I know this doesn't suit your agenda, but we're not "haven't got a pot to piss in little ol' Everton" anymore.

A hell of a lot? I think if you work it out it may not be as much as you try & make out it is.
Stadium improvements - what? A few tins of paint and new cladding?
I don't have an agenda despite what you're trying to insinuate
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jamokachi on September 15, 2017, 10:43:27 AM
A hell of a lot? I think if you work it out it may not be as much as you try & make out it is.
Stadium improvements - what? A few tins of paint and new cladding?
I don't have an agenda despite what you're trying to insinuate

1. 150m is a hell of a lot.
2. If you think all that has happened at Goodison is a "few tins of paint" you're massively deluded.
3. Of course you do. Your agenda is that the club is run and managed by frauds. There's nothing with having an agenda, you may as well admit it to yourself.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheTone on September 15, 2017, 11:41:27 AM
Benitez anyone?

Just Leicester, West Ham, Bournemouth and Crystal Palace at the moment
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mac934 on September 15, 2017, 12:22:49 PM
We basically can't fix things until we get a striker. All this talk about the manager and performance and confidence all comes back around to the fact we haven't got a striker. Fundamentally, can't play how we want to play and how we've prepared to play all summer. We can try and be pragmatic and scrap wins but playing well will mean the manager will have to figure out some other way of playing. And it's not just about missing a key component of your tactics, you want someone on the pitch who can score fucking goals. Even top, well drilled teams will have off days when they'll rely on their striker to turn/win a game out of nothing. We haven't got that.
We do have strikers, albeit of differing skill and experience levels, ie DCL, Rooney and Niasse. If you can't get them involved and leave them totally exposed, then they will never get chances. How often was DCL played to last night?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 15, 2017, 12:48:13 PM
I've read that about five times and still haven't a clue what you're saying but to promote Unsworth as manager just screams of lack of ambition.


I guess I'm saying while he wouldn't be my first choice (Diego simeone) he might be closer to the top of the list in terms of what's realistic

Also screams a lack of ambition? Who cares? I want the right decisions made rather than to be seen to be ambitious to the outside. People on here were happy for us to pay 40m for joe hart in the name of ambition. People on here said we should just pay 50 for Sigurdsson cos that's what big clubs do. Being seen to be ambitious to the outside world is often a bit overrated. We need to make good choices not "ambitious" ones
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 15, 2017, 12:54:42 PM
The Koeman/Walsh relationship is probably the most interesting thing about this. Is Walsh doing an outright horrible job of identifying suitable targets? Or is Koeman shooting his targets down because he doesn't like them? Or did Koeman and Walsh both think this mess of squad was a good idea? Or are Kenwright and Elstone secretly sabotaging them in the negotiating room?

It was mentioned on the podcast that Koeman needs to see the players personally before he signs off on them. If true, that's a totally fucked process. We shouldn't be assigning any weight to Koeman's player evaluations unless he's seeing the player for a full season's worth of games (which I seriously doubt is the case) and even then, I'm skeptical. For the scouting team to watch a player for a full season (or over multiple seasons), put the player forward as a suitable target, then have their opinions dismissed because the boss saw him once or twice and didn't like him... yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Koeman's only role should be to confirm that he'll be able to get along with players personally. He needs to trust the scouting team that the players fit the criteria he's given them.

(Again, all based on rumours. We don't really know what the process is. All we know is that it isn't working.)

I think much of our problem is there relationship. Don't think Walsh has enough say in the big signings and I don't think koeman is flexiable enough in terms of the targets he wants
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 15, 2017, 01:07:39 PM
One of my concerns about sacking the manager and bringing another in is that the next manager may have a completely different philosophy and he might look at the squad and decide - "apart from a few players here I need a squad overhaul, get rid of these Koeman rejects etc". Then if things go tits up with The next manager then another would be appointed with another completely different approach and preference for certain players.

In the last 5 years we've seen the club's football philosophy change radically due to the managerial changes and I am quite confused as to the club's football identity. We risk becoming a Sunderland or QPR type of club with a lack of a clear footballing plan and structure so we never really know how to move forward as we don't know how to utilise our investments properly.
Definitely a valid concern.

That is the reason you bring in a Director of Football though surely. Given a specific club wide style remit, the Director Football should be signing players appropriate to it.

A Director of Football is hired specifically to avoid these issues. It's also why briniging in Steve Walsh after Koeman was so arse about tit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mick 1995 on September 15, 2017, 01:34:36 PM
The manner of the 2 losses (and the end of the City game) was galling.
So was last night.
I fear that Sunday may be the same.

But it'd be unfair to have a managerial position rest on a trip to Old Trafford.

I had a bit of a chewing out when i said i expected to lose the 4 league games from City to United. but i still expected us to make a fist of it.

So i've settled into '8 games'. 7 of them games are at home. Apart from Arsenal/United we should have sufficient quality to take maximum points from them.
If we beat Sunderland/Limassol /Lyon in the cup, get at least 9 points from the 15 league points available and at least make a showing against Arsenal then i'll give him till summer.

That's a big ask at the moment though - so i'll probably want him gone after the Burnley game.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 02:03:05 PM
You can certainly see why he doesn't stay very long anywhere, by choice or by design.

I think year one anywhere he will get a reaction by the virtue of him being Ronald Koeman, the football legend. Any player will find an extra 20% to impress a guy with his pedigree. If he brings along a strong work ethic those two combined will see a bounce with any group of players.

Over and above that maybe it's the flip side of the coin. His ego may then take over, relationships may suffer, his reputed love of golf over hard graft and his tactical failings might surface.
You could maybe get away with it a little longer in inferior leagues but here the cracks are showing already.

Nothing to base that on like, just my view.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Hawkandro on September 15, 2017, 02:08:44 PM

I guess I'm saying while he wouldn't be my first choice (Diego simeone) he might be closer to the top of the list in terms of what's realistic

Also screams a lack of ambition? Who cares? I want the right decisions made rather than to be seen to be ambitious to the outside. People on here were happy for us to pay 40m for joe hart in the name of ambition. People on here said we should just pay 50 for Sigurdsson cos that's what big clubs do. Being seen to be ambitious to the outside world is often a bit overrated. We need to make good choices not "ambitious" ones

Also, I can imagine a fair few of us thought signing Koeman would be a show of ambition...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Escla on September 15, 2017, 02:20:07 PM
You can certainly see why he doesn't stay very long anywhere, by choice or by design.

I think year one anywhere he will get a reaction by the virtue of him being Ronald Koeman, the football legend. Any player will find an extra 20% to impress a guy with his pedigree. If he brings along a strong work ethic those two combined will see a bounce with any group of players.

Over and above that maybe it's the flip side of the coin. His ego may then take over, relationships may suffer, his reputed love of golf over hard graft and his tactical failings might surface.
You could maybe get away with it a little longer in inferior leagues but here the cracks are showing already.

Nothing to base that on like, just my view.

Interesting theory but one things for sure, Barcelona aren't going to be knocking on our door any time soon !
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Major Clanger on September 15, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
Usually, once this question pops up, it's just a matter of time.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 02:24:59 PM
Does anyone think he's the man to get us top 4 and win a trophy?

Not even top 4, top 6 even?

If no, then why want him here?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Escla on September 15, 2017, 02:30:12 PM
Does anyone think he's the man to get us top 4 and win a trophy?

Not even top 4, top 6 even?

If no, then why want him here?

We're not even going to get "two semi finals" with him (our most recent benchmark for a good season)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gary1878 on September 15, 2017, 02:34:52 PM
Morning everyone. Well that was a shite performance.

I think the board will write off everything pre-United (whatever that result brings), and then expect performances and results after this.

If not, he will be under immense pressure to be sacked.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Escla on September 15, 2017, 02:37:10 PM
Agree, 6 points from Bournmouth and Burnley an absolute must, if less than that, talks will take place with potential replacements.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 15, 2017, 02:50:38 PM
There has been some bad shouts over the years on here, but the last few pages on here top the list.

We were beating city until the very last minute just a couple of weeks ago, the same City who wallopped the shite 5-0 the other day.

What a stupid point to try and make . We couldn't beat a 10 man City and City beat a 10 man Liverpool . How in gods fucking name is that a positive for Everton .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Redartin on September 15, 2017, 02:52:47 PM
This could be the making oh Unsworth. A few good games as caretaker, secures it to end of season, gets us into top 6, and nails it as full time job, bit like Shakespeare did at Leicester.

Koeman can get the Dutch job with Frank De Boer as his number 2.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueMaquis on September 15, 2017, 02:55:53 PM
Let's sack him. It'll be fun, if nothing else.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 15, 2017, 03:05:31 PM
I've read that about five times and still haven't a clue what you're saying but to promote Unsworth as manager just screams of lack of ambition.

When Pochettino became Manager of Espanyol he had only just completed his UEFA coaching badge and had no Management experience . Unsworth has an awful lot of Football experience . I would sooner see Unsworth play JonJoe Kenny tha Koeman play Cuco Martina . Under Koeman our stand out in pre season is now on loan at Forest and we broke the club record for a very average player in Siggurdsson . Money and ambition don't always get results . More so when the fucker spending the money doesn't know what he is doing .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 15, 2017, 03:10:43 PM
The only bad results so far this season have been Spurs and and the result last night.
Everything else has gone as expected, other than the City game, I'd have predicted a loss there. People losing their heads all over the place

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 15, 2017, 03:11:49 PM
For the little that it's worth in the heat of the moment, he had these little periods of 5+ games without a win/draw at Southampton too, but came through them. Unlike Martinez, he's historically been able to turn them around and finish the season where we'd expect him to.

As a club, we probably need answers to two things before deciding Koeman's future though. Firstly, what style of play do we want to play long term? Are there good managers available with a track record of implementing that style and getting results? If there aren't, then we're realistically left with Koeman or Unsworth. You'd then have to question if managing us until the end of the season would help or hinder Unsworth's progression as a coach.

The second question is about what we expect from this season. After the money spent, were we expecting to compete for top 6 and cups? If we were, a change might be a good idea. Were we expecting to finish 7th and not much more? Koeman will probably get us there or thereabouts. Or have we anticipated this to be a transition year with all the new signings? In that case, you could definitely make an argument to just throw in Calvert-Lewin, Lookman, Sandro, Davies, Vlasic, Kenny or whoever else in at the deep end as much as possible and see if they've got what it takes. If that means replacing Koeman, so be it, it might be better for us in the long run if they get games and experience together.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 15, 2017, 03:13:38 PM
Lets write off the match on Sunday, we've got 4 homes after that, in fact pretty sure 6 out of next 7 are at home
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 03:16:07 PM
The only bad results so far this season have been Spurs and and the result last night.
Everything else has gone as expected, other than the City game, I'd have predicted a loss there. People losing their heads all over the place



It's the performances that are worrying.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: charlatan on September 15, 2017, 03:22:51 PM
Thought we'd seen the last of this fucking useless 4-2-3-1 formation when Martinez got his P45.  It doesnt fucking work
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: themilkycoffees on September 15, 2017, 03:31:42 PM
Half way through the season, we'll be comfortably in the top 8 of the league and through in the Europa. Koeman isn't helping matters with his team selections at the minute, but I'm sure he can turn it around. Get United out of the way on Sunday and get behind him. I think we were always going to struggle with no real focal point and a serious lack of pace in the team, against the better teams at least.

Last night has got me a bit worried though...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 03:32:15 PM
The only bad results so far this season have been Spurs and and the result last night.
Everything else has gone as expected, other than the City game, I'd have predicted a loss there. People losing their heads all over the place



It's performances that are being discussed, not results.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 15, 2017, 03:48:38 PM
When Pochettino became Manager of Espanyol he had only just completed his UEFA coaching badge and had no Management experience . Unsworth has an awful lot of Football experience . I would sooner see Unsworth play JonJoe Kenny tha Koeman play Cuco Martina . Under Koeman our stand out in pre season is now on loan at Forest and we broke the club record for a very average player in Siggurdsson . Money and ambition don't always get results . More so when the fucker spending the money doesn't know what he is doing .

He's gonna look average when he's dumped on the left wing, he's not a left winger end of
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 15, 2017, 04:31:27 PM
I understand Moyes has declared his desire to return to top class management. He must be good, Man Utd took him on with Fergie's recommendation.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 15, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
It's performances that are being discussed, not results.
It's the performances that are worrying.




So we're just up in arms over 2 bad first half performance out of how many games?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 04:34:47 PM

So we're just up in arms over 2 bad first half performance out of how many games?

Let's spin it. When was the last time we played 90 minutes of good football?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mac934 on September 15, 2017, 04:35:21 PM
The only bad results so far this season have been Spurs and and the result last night.
Everything else has gone as expected, other than the City game, I'd have predicted a loss there. People losing their heads all over the place
How many times and how many threads does it take to understand. ITS NOT THE RESULTS ITS THE INEPT CLUELESS PERFORMANCES!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: dax78 on September 15, 2017, 04:40:19 PM
How many times and how many threads does it take to understand. ITS NOT THE RESULTS ITS THE INEPT CLUELESS PERFORMANCES!
Couldn't agree more, its the results that really matter
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 15, 2017, 04:41:39 PM
The only bad results so far this season have been Spurs and and the result last night.
Everything else has gone as expected, other than the City game, I'd have predicted a loss there. People losing their heads all over the place



the performances though have been unacceptably bad barring maybe 1 half against Stoke, 1 half against city and 1 half in Europe. That's 3 of 14 halves and I'm not sure any of them were too great
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 04:42:18 PM

So we're just up in arms over 2 bad first half performance out of how many games?

What?

Mate, have you actually watched us this season?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 04:43:36 PM
Unless you perform well you aren't going to get the results. You might be able to wing it for a while by virtue of having a talented goalkeeper who keeps you in a game or wasteful finishing from the opposition but sooner or later your stats have to be better than the oppositions to get consistent results.

Maybe they'll come after the Man U game, but they better come fast as goodwill is draining.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 15, 2017, 04:45:02 PM

So we're just up in arms over 2 bad first half performance out of how many games?

2 bad first half performances. We were cowardly second half against city, 2nd best first half against Stoke.
You seem to be giving us credit for having the good sense to get battered first half against Spurs Chelsea and Atalanta so they can pack in at half time and you can pretend we were much better 2nd half. We've been shit at least half of every game we've played this season
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: mikey_blue on September 15, 2017, 04:46:43 PM
If Thomas Tuchel was available then I'd bin Koeman in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 15, 2017, 04:59:22 PM

So we're just up in arms over 2 bad first half performance out of how many games?

Out of last seasons cups to Norwich ( reserves ) and Leicester ( completely out of form ) at Goodison . Beaten by Burnley and Bournemouth in October , twatted 5-0 by Chelsea , as usual beaten by the Shite , beaten by Arsenal . Swansea , Watford and Southampton beating us quite comfortably . He is not and won't become a decent Manager . Like it has been said so many times 7th or 8th and sticking with him shows no ambition what so ever . He has had more money than any other Everton Manager and built a team which he can now call almost exclusively his . Finally , what the fuck have you been watching to give you any optimism going forward ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 15, 2017, 05:01:35 PM
Davey is loitering around Goodison Road waiting for a side door to open.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 15, 2017, 05:06:45 PM
If Thomas Tuchel was available then I'd bin Koeman in a heartbeat.

Stand out Manager in the Bundesliga last season was Nagglesmann at Hoffenheim and he had a similar profile to Unsworth . Tuechal himself had loads of Youth team experience at Stuttgart and Augsburg before taking the Maniz job . Both are excellent with youth development within their clubs . What do we want as a club ( other than to fucking win something , anything , just a cup , a shitty cup , any cup , a fucking game for fucks sake ) ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gary1878 on September 15, 2017, 05:07:29 PM
The thing the players need to do against United is show some guts and heart. Work for the team and just put a damn good shift in. We need to at the very least see that they are trying their very best and working together as a unit.

After United, 6 out of our 7 games are at home. Make no mistake about it - that run will dictate Koeman's future as Everton manager. A bad spell of results during this period and he will get the can.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: ally2 on September 15, 2017, 05:13:09 PM
It's easy to get worked up about performances, and yes they have been poor. But people are kidding themselves saying that they matter. If we had won more games playing poorly, no one would care that much and that's a fact even if you don't want to admit it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rhys on September 15, 2017, 05:16:56 PM
It's easy to get worked up about performances, and yes they have been poor. But people are kidding themselves saying that they matter. If we had won more games playing poorly, no one would care that much and that's a fact even if you don't want to admit it.

No but it gives a bit more comfort if we had lost these hard games but looked like we knew what we were doing. You can move along if perform well, can see where we are heading and think ok get these games out of the way, unlucky to not get more points but we have some better fixtures to pick up points from.

Whereas when you look as bad as we have done and not got the results it is bound to be magnified. 3 wins in the coming 3 home games could easily get a bit of momentum and see us start to perform better. But going into those 3 home games you cant be confident when we have performed so poorly in most games so far and there will be a lot of pressure going into them if we have another lifeless performance on sunday.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 05:17:54 PM
It's easy to get worked up about performances, and yes they have been poor. But people are kidding themselves saying that they matter. If we had won more games playing poorly, no one would care that much and that's a fact even if you don't want to admit it.

But we didn't. That's kind of the point.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 15, 2017, 05:20:15 PM
Sack Koeman? Not just yet.

Sack all our so called "footballing" coaches, that dont know how to teach players to actually play football - making options for each other, basic passing, basic movement, reading the game, running into space, being in the right positions, the art of tackling, not passing back all the fookin time, to actually RUN, to actually get numbers in the box and exploit teams when they cock up. So, so many basics being fooked up. Doesnt anyone else think this is going beyond a joke now? I'm fucking 50, and a largeish bloke, and I was nearly crying last night at how poor we are. It was like watching a little kid get picked on by bigger boys.  Get some decent coaching staff in Everton! I dont think our players are particularly bad, but we are playing particularly bad football, or rather NOT PLAYING football.  What is the point in investing dozens of millions in players, when our coaching staff is woeful. Sort it, quick, for god sake.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 15, 2017, 05:24:22 PM
Pass and move simples except our players are stood about wondering who the fuck this move chap is
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gary1878 on September 15, 2017, 05:30:22 PM
It's easy to get worked up about performances, and yes they have been poor. But people are kidding themselves saying that they matter. If we had won more games playing poorly, no one would care that much and that's a fact even if you don't want to admit it.

Problem is that it is very unlikely that you win playing really badly in consecutive games - afterall you must be doing something right to be beating teams and getting results. You have to do most things at least half decently, whether that is defending to get a clean sheet or scoring a bucket load of goals, unless the other teams are all out of form (again very unlikely). We seem to be doing neither.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 15, 2017, 05:35:28 PM
Anyone else listening to talksport? they just had some chap on saying koeman was told the only money left was to sign vlasic and thats it and thats why he buggered off on holiday....id be more inclined to think if barkley isnt sold theres no money left
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 05:38:26 PM
Anyone else listening to talksport? they just had some chap on saying koeman was told the only money left was to sign vlasic and thats it and thats why he buggered off on holiday....id be more inclined to think if barkley isnt sold theres no money left

Love the 'bloke on Talksport' stories. He's been listening to Joey Barton too much.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ih8redshite on September 15, 2017, 05:39:14 PM
Not a chance we should sack Koeman. I predict a 1-1 draw on Sunday. That will pick us up and have a run of wins. Get confidence up and we will be flying before Christmas. We will sign a striker in the January window and finish strongly and all this will seem like a distant memory. Let's get behind the manager and the team
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: stirlingblue on September 15, 2017, 05:39:17 PM
Sack Koeman? Not just yet.

Sack all our so called "footballing" coaches, that dont know how to teach players to actually play football - making options for each other, basic passing, basic movement, reading the game, running into space, being in the right positions, the art of tackling, not passing back all the fookin time, to actually RUN, to actually get numbers in the box and exploit teams when they cock up. So, so many basics being fooked up. Doesnt anyone else think this is going beyond a joke now? I'm fucking 50, and a largeish bloke, and I was nearly crying last night at how poor we are. It was like watching a little kid get picked on by bigger boys.  Get some decent coaching staff in Everton! I dont think are playres are particularly bad, but we playing particularly bad football, or rather NOT PLAYING football.  What is the point in investing dozens of millions in players, when are coaching staff is woeful. Sort it, quick, for god sake.

It can't just be the coaches though, there are plenty of players there who have played at high levels in the past. It's not like you just forget how to play football if the coaches don't remind you each week!

This seems more like a manager who's lost the dressing room
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gary1878 on September 15, 2017, 05:41:21 PM
Love the 'bloke on Talksport' stories. He's been listening to Joey Barton too much.

I've heard from my Wife's best friend's husband's brother that Koeman won't be our manager within the next 10 years. Don't shoot the messenger
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Polledreng on September 15, 2017, 05:45:18 PM
I've heard from my Wife's best friend's husband's brother that Koeman won't be our manager within the next 10 years. Don't shoot the messenger
never thrust your wife or her friends  ;)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gary1878 on September 15, 2017, 05:46:46 PM
never thrust your wife or her friends  ;)

What I do with my wife or her friends isn't any concern of yours......
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 05:49:26 PM
I don't think he's lost the dressing room entirely, there are too many new signings to lose them as well.

I just think he's confused the players with his tactics, signings and formation and that, coupled with poor results, is now manifesting itself in us looking a little lost and disillusioned at the minute. Most of them will still respect him but quite justifiably they're looking for a bit more leadership to get us through and with such a wide age spectrum of 18-35 it takes certain man management skills to get them all on board.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 15, 2017, 05:51:08 PM
Talksport pointing out koemans statement last night saying the team wasnt prepared for that game,,he made 6 changes ffs
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 15, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
Most sensible thing would be get united out the way, free hit tbh.

Then he's got 4 home games.

If we lose those it's inevitable imo.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: phillyt on September 15, 2017, 05:56:41 PM
NO!! WE are not Crystal Palace. Give him more time and then wield the axe. It is clear the players do not believe in him. Some of them are crap anyway, but other decent players are not performing. Sigurdsson, Keane, Rooney are good players. The rest are not up to much admittedly.

Do you know what I actually admire the decisiveness and bravery of the palace board to do what they did. No fucking about. Hands held up "we made a mistake but we are fixing it before too much damage is done"

This also isn't the same as palace. Koeman has had a season. This isn't players struggling to gel, this is players not knowing what to do, where to be, what the tactics are.

Defensively we have Keane in new, midfield is still schneiderlin and gueye. We should still be solid enough to defend well. We are after all managed by one of the better defenders from world football history. Last night aside the results don't worry me. The teams we have played in the league (stoke aside who we beat) you would accept losing too but realistically hope to get a good result.
It's the tepid, non directional, slow, passionless play devoid of imagination and identity. The team have nothing.
Yeah over the season we would comfortably expect to win more than we lose, pick up points and finish 6/7/8th but that's not progress, that's not ambition that's not good enough.
I'm not for a minute saying we will or should be finishing in the top 4 but after the summer we had we should be confident of pushing them. All the way and being in with a shot in the last few games.

It's all well and good being brutally honest, and taking the rap like he did last night but if you don't, won't or can't prepare a team of talented players for a match like that last night you are not entitled to be manager/head coach of Everton football club.
We had this with Martinez, give him a chance, it's a developing team, new ideas let them settle in. NO before too much damage is done get rid of this man and get in a coach who offers tactical astuteness and man management ability.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 06:04:00 PM
A heavy defeat at weekend, the team in the bottom three and anything other than a win against Bournemouth and we'll see how big Moshiri's onions are. Will he get a public vote of confidence?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: charlatan on September 15, 2017, 06:14:41 PM
Not a chance we should sack Koeman. I predict a 1-1 draw on Sunday. That will pick us up and have a run of wins. Get confidence up and we will be flying before Christmas. We will sign a striker in the January window and finish strongly and all this will seem like a distant memory. Let's get behind the manager and the team

Carry on like we are, and a striker in January will be far too late
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluenose 91 on September 15, 2017, 06:54:10 PM
Sundays game is a write off so no point even bringing that in to the conversation.

Anything other than 4 wins out of 4 in the next run of games though and it won't be looking good for him.

I quite like him but that's just footy these days and I wouldn't be up in arms if we jibbed him.

I'd let Unsworth have it till Jan as well.  A completely brand new manager coming in now is still gonna have the same immediate problems.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: themilkycoffees on September 15, 2017, 07:00:20 PM
Be arsed with Unsworth.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TrevorSteven on September 15, 2017, 07:05:50 PM
Take it easy as I was told by you guys at the start of the season...

They have not gained their fitnesslevel yet😂

This is an incredible team with incredible New players with incredible skills. We gonna push for a CL-spot!😂
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 15, 2017, 07:27:23 PM
Three alternate realities I'd prefer to live in:

1. [Starting in the summer of 2013] Everton hire Ralf Rangnick instead of Martinez.

2. [Starting in the summer of 2016] Everton hire the director of football before making a decision on the manager.

3. [Starting in the summer of 2016] Everton hire unattached Lucien Favre instead of waiting for Ronald Koeman.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Picko1975 on September 15, 2017, 07:34:01 PM
I'm not for sacking Koeman at the moment but he'll start to come under increasing pressure if things don't pick up pretty soon.  However, I know there are stories (very likely unfounded) about Koeman being told that the board wasn't funding a new striker but does anyone else think that the board, or Walsh, might have been querying some of the buys and thinking hang on, lets just see how things pan out over the next few months before giving him more money?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 07:44:35 PM
Three alternate realities I'd prefer to live in:

1. [Starting in the summer of 2013] Everton hire Ralf Rangnick instead of Martinez.

2. [Starting in the summer of 2016] Everton hire the director of football before making a decision on the manager.

3. [Starting in the summer of 2016] Everton hire unattached Lucien Favre instead of waiting for Ronald Koeman.


The fact we interviewed Rangnick reassures me that there's people behind the scenes who are ahead of the curve
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 07:45:27 PM
I'm throwing a name out here, lads.

I'll get some ridicule (rightly so) but I think he could be a perfect fit.

Mikel Arteta

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 15, 2017, 07:46:55 PM
I'm throwing a name out here, lads.

I'll get some ridicule (rightly so) but I think he could be a perfect fit.

Mikel Arteta



 :Holgate:
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluenose 91 on September 15, 2017, 07:46:57 PM
I'm throwing a name out here, lads.

I'll get some ridicule (rightly so) but I think he could be a perfect fit.

Mikel Arteta



Hahahaha

I love everything about this shout other than the thought of him actually managing us.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: phillyt on September 15, 2017, 07:55:43 PM
I'm throwing a name out here, lads.

I'll get some ridicule (rightly so) but I think he could be a perfect fit.

Mikel Arteta



I wonder if we could find any money to pay his contract at city?

Where's the arteta money bill?

On a serious note I think an appointment of that nature will be too much of a risk. We need an established manager with a European and top league pedigree to come in.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 15, 2017, 07:58:37 PM
I'm throwing a name out here, lads.

I'll get some ridicule (rightly so) but I think he could be a perfect fit.

Mikel Arteta



 :bonk:

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 15, 2017, 08:10:15 PM
You can all fuck off.

I support the under 23s anyway

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ih8redshite on September 15, 2017, 08:19:01 PM
Carry on like we are, and a striker in January will be far too late

I didn't say carry on as we have been. I said a result against Man Utd and a few wins. Get us through to January and a striker hopefully and a strong finish. Next season will be the one to judge. Guaranteed if we do ok this season and have a blinding next season n then Koeman is being scouted by Barca again, all heads will fall off. Too many people quick to press the panic button. Impatience seems to be a common fault these days
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sirblue57 on September 15, 2017, 08:43:57 PM

So we're just up in arms over 2 bad first half performance out of how many games?

you are kidding?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 15, 2017, 08:52:28 PM
Don't know where the Rangnick shouts come from he would be as bad as Koeman .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 15, 2017, 08:53:45 PM
I'm throwing a name out here, lads.

I'll get some ridicule (rightly so) but I think he could be a perfect fit.

Mikel Arteta



As our 5th 10. Fuck it he's better than a couple still. As a manager. Is there an argument for him over unsworth. Least unsworth has some pedigree coaching with us and knows the players
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 15, 2017, 08:53:48 PM
Just said this in his presser

"We have a lot of doubts. Last season we had a good defensive organisation but we have lost our strengths - at the moment," Koeman said.

"If you lose that against the big teams in the Premier League, and yesterday too, it was painful because they showed more ambition, aggression, and defended so tight.

"And the space we gave to their (Atalanta) strikers was different. I don't tell the media what I tell the players.

"After this press conference I will have a meeting with most of the players and the key players. I think it's time for the experienced players to stand up.

"Defensively there are too many mistakes. I am worried what I saw yesterday. I wasn't so worried after Chelsea. But it started second 45 minutes against Tottenham, and the first 45 minutes yesterday.

"We have some players with doubts, and I don't want to be too individual, because it's always a team performance, but we need to be more aggressive."
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 09:00:08 PM
I imagine by key players he means Rooney, Jags, Baines and Schneiderlin.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Escla on September 15, 2017, 09:02:48 PM
I imagine by key players he means Rooney, Jags, Baines and Schneiderlin.

Better include Williams in that as he'll be playing on Sunday.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 09:03:54 PM
Better include Williams in that as he'll be playing on Sunday.

Yeh tried to forget about him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Escla on September 15, 2017, 09:13:50 PM
I imagine by key players he means Rooney, Jags, Baines and Schneiderlin.

He wants them to be more "aggressive" neither Baines nor Jags have an aggressive bone in their body, never have had, two of the "nicest" captains you could wish for. If Schneiderlin is any more aggressive on Sunday than he is normally we will be playing with 10 men.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 15, 2017, 09:23:37 PM
He wants them to be more "aggressive" neither Baines nor Jags have an aggressive bone in their body, never have had, two of the "nicest" captains you could wish for. If Schneiderlin is any more aggressive on Sunday than he is normally we will be playing with 10 men.

I agree with that. Makes it all the more baffling we didn't sign a player who could cover/replace both Jags and Baines. I know he said we were trying but obviously somewhere along the line we failed to do it. Shame really, the start of the window was so promising.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluenose 91 on September 15, 2017, 09:30:59 PM
Do also think it's worth realising that barring something absolutely catastrophic he is likely to be here until the end of the season at least.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 15, 2017, 09:40:32 PM
Ok, I've calmed down.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 15, 2017, 10:00:07 PM
As our 5th 10. Fuck it he's better than a couple still. As a manager. Is there an argument for him over unsworth. Least unsworth has some pedigree coaching with us and knows the players
Maybe you should change your name to KoemansNumberTens
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: ynotd on September 16, 2017, 12:31:41 AM
Just said this in his presser

"We have a lot of doubts. Last season we had a good defensive organisation but we have lost our strengths - at the moment," Koeman said.

"If you lose that against the big teams in the Premier League, and yesterday too, it was painful because they showed more ambition, aggression, and defended so tight.

"And the space we gave to their (Atalanta) strikers was different. I don't tell the media what I tell the players.

"After this press conference I will have a meeting with most of the players and the key players. I think it's time for the experienced players to stand up.

"Defensively there are too many mistakes. I am worried what I saw yesterday. I wasn't so worried after Chelsea. But it started second 45 minutes against Tottenham, and the first 45 minutes yesterday.

"We have some players with doubts, and I don't want to be too individual, because it's always a team performance, but we need to be more aggressive."

Why the fuck is he playing players with doubts? 

I think arl Ronald is talking his way into a big fat payoff and the sack
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 16, 2017, 12:51:39 AM
Maybe you should change your name to KoemansNumberTens

Can I change my name? I'd like that very much.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on September 16, 2017, 12:55:40 AM
Can I change my name? I'd like that very much.

Done.  :)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 16, 2017, 12:56:25 AM
Done.  :)

Haha thanks.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluenose27 on September 16, 2017, 01:13:14 AM
Seriously if we had started the season with the fixtures man utd have had how many points do you think we would have. Probably the same or 1 or 2 less. We would have bedded our new signings in and be playing with confidence and everyone would be singing the managers praises.
The point is it is far to early to even talk about such things not doubting we have problems but nowhere near a crisis yet!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 16, 2017, 01:16:56 AM
You're still MLT to me man
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 16, 2017, 01:22:40 AM
Fucking hell la just seen someone comment on nsno on facey saying he'd have Big Sam in a heart beat.

That's all I needed to get back on the 'give him time' wagon.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 16, 2017, 01:43:09 AM
Fucking hell la just seen someone comment on nsno on facey saying he'd have Big Sam in a heart beat.

That's all I needed to get back on the 'give him time' wagon.

I'm on the march with Koemans army
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on September 16, 2017, 05:29:06 AM
You're still MLT to me man

He's a KNT to me.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KingOfNapaValley on September 16, 2017, 06:29:43 AM
Even if we are mid-table at the end of the season, I am not sure I would fire Koeman.

Honestly, I have NEVER understood the idea of firing someone... just to replace him with someone else who has been already sacked 5-6 times previously. If the person that would replace the outgoing manager has already been sacked themselves 5-6 times, how good can they be?

Most manager in English football are a reused group of people who on average can't hold a job 18 months on average. I doubt more than a handful could get jobs outside of England. Koeman is one.If we get rid of Koeman, I would be upset if we go the same, sad, tired and unimaginative route of hiring another manager who has lasted 1-2 years (max) in any job they have had.

Thus, I would rather keep Koeman and give him time. Years, frankly.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Waltzer on September 16, 2017, 12:33:45 PM
Even if we are mid-table at the end of the season, I am not sure I would fire Koeman.

Honestly, I have NEVER understood the idea of firing someone... just to replace him with someone else who has been already sacked 5-6 times previously. If the person that would replace the outgoing manager has already been sacked themselves 5-6 times, how good can they be?

Most manager in English football are a reused group of people who on average can't hold a job 18 months on average. I doubt more than a handful could get jobs outside of England. Koeman is one.If we get rid of Koeman, I would be upset if we go the same, sad, tired and unimaginative route of hiring another manager who has lasted 1-2 years (max) in any job they have had.

Thus, I would rather keep Koeman and give him time. Years, frankly.



Mourinho and Ancelotti have both been sacked numerous times, it doesnt mean your a bad manager, it sometimes means your face doesnt fit? It wouldnt bother me if we got someone in to replace Koeman if they had been sacked numerous times.
I dont want Koeman sacked but my concern is that I think Moshiri was after a 'big name' rather than the right man, he said he wanted someone that was globally recognisable and im unsure if that was the right approach given were not really giving him sufficient funds to make a mark on the global scale?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 16, 2017, 02:23:51 PM
I agree with that. Makes it all the more baffling we didn't sign a player who could cover/replace both Jags and Baines. I know he said we were trying but obviously somewhere along the line we failed to do it. Shame really, the start of the window was so promising.


So we should've had 9 new players in the first team instead of 7?

I think some people are misunderstanding the reasons why our season has started so poorly.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on September 16, 2017, 03:16:04 PM
Three alternate realities I'd prefer to live in:

1. [Starting in the summer of 2013] Everton hire Ralf Rangnick instead of Martinez.

2. [Starting in the summer of 2016] Everton hire the director of football before making a decision on the manager.

3. [Starting in the summer of 2016] Everton hire unattached Lucien Favre instead of waiting for Ronald Koeman.


Who do you prefer, mate; Favre, Bielsa, or Tuchel?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on September 16, 2017, 03:44:15 PM
Who do you prefer, mate; Favre, Bielsa, or Tuchel?



*genuinely hopes @kramer0 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) is writing a detailed thesis for us*
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: terrydarracotsbaldpate on September 16, 2017, 03:54:31 PM
Someone on Radio Merseyside said last night that we should bring in big Sam !!!!!. Next window bring in Nolan Heridisan and Sammy Lee. This reminds me of early reign of Howard . Don't panic yet
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 16, 2017, 04:10:07 PM
We're not doomed!

Bring back Terry Darracott
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Brownie20 on September 16, 2017, 04:17:49 PM
Why is unsworth nonsense. He'd be unproven but that doesn't mean he couldn't do a great job.

People seem obsessed with proven (players and managers) but the reality is what we can attract of proven quality is a Sigurdsson for 45m or a koeman on 150k a week. I'd sooner take more risks with more potential rewards
It's all very well saying unsworth should go elsewhere first but then we might never get another chance. I'm not saying he's the right man but it's not nonsense to suggest he might be

There is a massive difference from learning your trade by being coach of an U23 side to taking on the main role at a big PL club. It would be like me being given the Headship of my school after being a form tutor. Unsworth, he has an ambition to be a PL manager, needs to be looking to move on and manage a lower league club in the next year or 18 months to really earn his stripes
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 16, 2017, 04:31:32 PM
Big Sam/Sammy Lee? we've got to give Ronnie another 5 years at least.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 16, 2017, 04:42:56 PM
He's a KNT to me.

Cunt. You're allowed to say it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 16, 2017, 04:45:19 PM
Cunt. You're allowed to say it.

He knows. He's a mod. He was going with a slightly more elegant way of putting it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 16, 2017, 04:54:15 PM
There is a massive difference from learning your trade by being coach of an U23 side to taking on the main role at a big PL club. It would be like me being given the Headship of my school after being a form tutor. Unsworth, he has an ambition to be a PL manager, needs to be looking to move on and manage a lower league club in the next year or 18 months to really earn his stripes

Not at all . If your school is well run from the bottom up you should be able to take over the reins . We are a well run club with funds at our disposal , a good academy and a new stadium on the way . He knows the club and it wouldn't really be out of the question for him to maintain 7th without too much effort on his part . I don't want rid of Koeman just yet but where as everyone thought Martinez was ruining our club Koemans pig headed attitude just might . He had a slow start at Southampton and got them to 7th so he could well do the same this season . This is a failure as the expectation is so much higher . More so if he fails in 3 cups as well . As ever it will all come out in the wash but if Koeman goes then Unsworth would make sense till the end of the season at least .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Brownie20 on September 16, 2017, 05:16:13 PM
Not at all . If your school is well run from the bottom up you should be able to take over the reins . We are a well run club with funds at our disposal , a good academy and a new stadium on the way . He knows the club and it wouldn't really be out of the question for him to maintain 7th without too much effort on his part . I don't want rid of Koeman just yet but where as everyone thought Martinez was ruining our club Koemans pig headed attitude just might . He had a slow start at Southampton and got them to 7th so he could well do the same this season . This is a failure as the expectation is so much higher . More so if he fails in 3 cups as well . As ever it will all come out in the wash but if Koeman goes then Unsworth would make sense till the end of the season at least .


Your response to my school analogy shows why we as fans should not make decisions about internal club business. There's is much more to the roles than just presiding over something that is well run.

So hypothetical we give the job to Unsworth. How does the fact that the rest of the club is well run has no bearing on performances on the pitch or his inexperience of dealing with pressure situations at either end of the table. People like to use the Norwich game as a barometer for what he could achieve. Things need to be taken into a bit of perspective. The gloom of the end of the Martinez era had been lifted, there was nothing to lose, Norwich were already relegated. If things started to go wrong would people give him a bit too long to sort things out as he is a blue? Or would they become more vitriolic towards him for the same reason?

He may (and I hope he does) become a really good manager. But hand on heart would you honestly want to entrust the future of the football club to someone who has no actual experience of being a manager? I wouldn't

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on September 16, 2017, 05:19:09 PM
Definitely a valid concern.

That is the reason you bring in a Director of Football though surely. Given a specific club wide style remit, the Director Football should be signing players appropriate to it.

A Director of Football is hired specifically to avoid these issues. It's also why briniging in Steve Walsh after Koeman was so arse about tit.

Indeed, which is why I was quite happy when the club took this step forward to appoint one last year.

I am still wondering though what exactly Steve Walsh's remit is. I know he is heavily involved in the scouting of players and making a case for bringing young talent in, however, I don't know what he does with regards to the day to day running of the footballing side of things and let's just say Koeman was to be sacked tomorrow, would he have a role in helping to choose the next manager that fits the Everton system?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on September 16, 2017, 05:26:36 PM
If Koeman was to be sacked shortly, I would actually have no problem if Unsworth became caretaker manager for a good few games whilst the club assessed other managerial options. If Unsworth were to do very well then keep him in that role until the end of the season and depending on his performance then look to see whether to offer him the job permanently.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 16, 2017, 05:41:21 PM
let's just say Koeman was to be sacked tomorrow, would he have a role in helping to choose the next manager that fits the Everton system?
If Walsh wasn't the main person behind at a minimum shortlisting candidates for the next manager, I'd probably lose a lot of faith in Moshiri. He's just the best placed person to do it. He's worked on the coaching side as an assistant manager, he will presumably have the greatest knowledge of anybody high up in the club about managers around the world and he'll have the greatest contacts to check up on them. He's also the one who has recruited our younger players so will know what they're best suited to doing.

The decision about our future style of play should probably come from on top, but these generally aren't people with a great track record in football. Leave the footballing decisions to the people who are paid to make them.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: phillyt on September 16, 2017, 05:44:55 PM
I think, given the structure at the club now, unsworth could come in and do a decent job. He is a well respected face around the club so the players would most likely take to him, in January when we need to strengthen again we have Walsh and moshiri to sell the idea of joining Everton so his inexperience their won't matter much and he would in theory give the young players a shot.

The thing is we don't just want decent, we don't want maybes, mostly and could do. We need to see progress we need to have someone who can take us forward. I always felt that rather than us being a stepping stone for koeman, he was a stepping stone for us. The stone is crumbling terribly now and is in danger of being washed away and carrying us down river. We need to step onto the next one now to take us closer to solid ground of where we need to be.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: ally2 on September 16, 2017, 05:55:26 PM
I think, given the structure at the club now, unsworth could come in and do a decent job. He is a well respected face around the club so the players would most likely take to him, in January when we need to strengthen again we have Walsh and moshiri to sell the idea of joining Everton so his inexperience their won't matter much and he would in theory give the young players a shot.

The thing is we don't just want decent, we don't want maybes, mostly and could do. We need to see progress we need to have someone who can take us forward. I always felt that rather than us being a stepping stone for koeman, he was a stepping stone for us. The stone is crumbling terribly now and is in danger of being washed away and carrying us down river. We need to step onto the next one now to take us closer to solid ground of where we need to be.

That reminds me of the 'best of the second rate stone steppers' post a few years back
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 16, 2017, 06:18:07 PM
Your response to my school analogy shows why we as fans should not make decisions about internal club business. There's is much more to the roles than just presiding over something that is well run.

So hypothetical we give the job to Unsworth. How does the fact that the rest of the club is well run has no bearing on performances on the pitch or his inexperience of dealing with pressure situations at either end of the table. People like to use the Norwich game as a barometer for what he could achieve. Things need to be taken into a bit of perspective. The gloom of the end of the Martinez era had been lifted, there was nothing to lose, Norwich were already relegated. If things started to go wrong would people give him a bit too long to sort things out as he is a blue? Or would they become more vitriolic towards him for the same reason?

He may (and I hope he does) become a really good manager. But hand on heart would you honestly want to entrust the future of the football club to someone who has no actual experience of being a manager? I wouldn't



Hand on heart no but I was on about till the end of the season if Koeman went . I actually would sooner see Koeman achieve something but I just don't see it happening . The last game of the season after the toxicity of roberto is no barometer . To use the anology Unsworth would hardly be going from Teaching Assistant to Headmaster would he . Apparently there is so little at our club that Koeman is responsible for in any case .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Brownie20 on September 16, 2017, 06:47:56 PM
Hand on heart no but I was on about till the end of the season if Koeman went . I actually would sooner see Koeman achieve something but I just don't see it happening . The last game of the season after the toxicity of roberto is no barometer . To use the anology Unsworth would hardly be going from Teaching Assistant to Headmaster would he . Apparently there is so little at our club that Koeman is responsible for in any case .


I used Form Tutor, not Teaching Assistant. Totally different roles
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 16, 2017, 07:13:12 PM
Logically, if the club was so well run that it would be fine to promote Unsy, then it wouldn't matter if Koeman was any good or not anyway? So the whole argument is self-referential and so null and void.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on September 16, 2017, 07:31:21 PM
I still think this is a mad conversation at this stage of the season despite the poor performances.  If I wanted bizarre sackings early season I would support Palace
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 16, 2017, 07:51:13 PM
Who do you prefer, mate; Favre, Bielsa, or Tuchel?

I'd sack Koeman if Tuchel or Favre were interested in the job. I'm not sure I'd sack him for anyone else right now, minus a bunch of managers who are 100% unattainable to us. Even Tuchel and Favre might be a bit unattainable, although Favre clearly had some interest last summer so he's not totally out of the question.

Favre's tactics:

https://theinsidechannel.com/lucien-favres-tactics-at-borussia-monchengladbach/ (https://theinsidechannel.com/lucien-favres-tactics-at-borussia-monchengladbach/)

https://chanceanalytics.com/2017/08/05/how-in-the-world-does-nice-overperform-expected-goals-part-one-the-defence/ (https://chanceanalytics.com/2017/08/05/how-in-the-world-does-nice-overperform-expected-goals-part-one-the-defence/) (I couldn't find part two)

Tuchel's tactics:

http://bundesligafanatic.com/tuchel-modern-tactics-mainz05/ (http://bundesligafanatic.com/tuchel-modern-tactics-mainz05/)

http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/09/15/team-analysis-tuchels-borussia-dortmund/ (http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/09/15/team-analysis-tuchels-borussia-dortmund/)

There's no way I'd have Bielsa anymore. Two reasons:

(1) I think he's best for a team that's a complete shambles and needs a new tactical direction. A lot of his value is derived from leaving behind much smarter players than the ones he started with, e.g. Payet, Mendy, Batshuayi at Marseille; Llorente, Martinez, and Herrera at Athletic. I liked the idea of him teaching the likes of Stones, Barkley, and Deulofeu, but all of those players have since left or are leaving.

(2) I have enough questions about the board to be worried about him walking after a short time in charge. The second someone breaks a promise to Bielsa, he resigns. See his time at Lazio for a prime example.

Lille seem to be supporting him right now so it'll be interesting to see how they do this season.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 16, 2017, 08:18:19 PM
Not at all . If your school is well run from the bottom up you should be able to take over the reins . We are a well run club with funds at our disposal , a good academy and a new stadium on the way . He knows the club and it wouldn't really be out of the question for him to maintain 7th without too much effort on his part . I don't want rid of Koeman just yet but where as everyone thought Martinez was ruining our club Koemans pig headed attitude just might . He had a slow start at Southampton and got them to 7th so he could well do the same this season . This is a failure as the expectation is so much higher . More so if he fails in 3 cups as well . As ever it will all come out in the wash but if Koeman goes then Unsworth would make sense till the end of the season at least .

Why do people still think this is the case?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 16, 2017, 08:43:28 PM
Why do people still think this is the case?

Why are you so sure that this is not the case?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on September 16, 2017, 09:13:09 PM
I'd sack Koeman if Tuchel or Favre were interested in the job. I'm not sure I'd sack him for anyone else right now, minus a bunch of managers who are 100% unattainable to us. Even Tuchel and Favre might be a bit unattainable, although Favre clearly had some interest last summer so he's not totally out of the question.

Favre's tactics:

https://theinsidechannel.com/lucien-favres-tactics-at-borussia-monchengladbach/ (https://theinsidechannel.com/lucien-favres-tactics-at-borussia-monchengladbach/)

https://chanceanalytics.com/2017/08/05/how-in-the-world-does-nice-overperform-expected-goals-part-one-the-defence/ (https://chanceanalytics.com/2017/08/05/how-in-the-world-does-nice-overperform-expected-goals-part-one-the-defence/) (I couldn't find part two)

Tuchel's tactics:

http://bundesligafanatic.com/tuchel-modern-tactics-mainz05/ (http://bundesligafanatic.com/tuchel-modern-tactics-mainz05/)

http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/09/15/team-analysis-tuchels-borussia-dortmund/ (http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/09/15/team-analysis-tuchels-borussia-dortmund/)

There's no way I'd have Bielsa anymore. Two reasons:

(1) I think he's best for a team that's a complete shambles and needs a new tactical direction. A lot of his value is derived from leaving behind much smarter players than the ones he started with, e.g. Payet, Mendy, Batshuayi at Marseille; Llorente, Martinez, and Herrera at Athletic. I liked the idea of him teaching the likes of Stones, Barkley, and Deulofeu, but all of those players have since left or are leaving.

(2) I have enough questions about the board to be worried about him walking after a short time in charge. The second someone breaks a promise to Bielsa, he resigns. See his time at Lazio for a prime example.

Lille seem to be supporting him right now so it'll be interesting to see how they do this season.

I knew you'd come through 😊

If our board is still being led by Bill and Elstone, I would worry that if we nudged out Koeman we would end up with BRETT Favre at the helm 😳
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 16, 2017, 09:31:18 PM
Not at all . If your school is well run from the bottom up you should be able to take over the reins . We are a well run club with funds at our disposal , a good academy and a new stadium on the way . He knows the club and it wouldn't really be out of the question for him to maintain 7th without too much effort on his part . I don't want rid of Koeman just yet but where as everyone thought Martinez was ruining our club Koemans pig headed attitude just might . He had a slow start at Southampton and got them to 7th so he could well do the same this season . This is a failure as the expectation is so much higher . More so if he fails in 3 cups as well . As ever it will all come out in the wash but if Koeman goes then Unsworth would make sense till the end of the season at least .

We could only sack Koeman when and if it reaches Martinez levels, which won't be long if we lose so called games considered as "bankers" coming up, how anyone could object to Unsworth taking over is bizarre to say the least, if you have a family crisis you keep it in-house as possible.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: ajax_andy on September 16, 2017, 10:06:36 PM
Koeman wanted a striker, the board failed to deliver... I don't feel we can fully blame him for the current situation and he needs time to help the new players bed in and find a starting 11 that works.

However you can tell he's the type to be a massively huffy twat when he doesn't get what he wants, and there's nowt the Dutch like more than imploding due to their own feeling of self worth.  He needs to snap out of that asap or it'll be what signs his death warrant at the club very soon otherwise imo
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 16, 2017, 10:11:39 PM
Logically, if the club was so well run that it would be fine to promote Unsy, then it wouldn't matter if Koeman was any good or not anyway? So the whole argument is self-referential and so null and void.

WTF . Maybe we don't need a Manager then .

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 16, 2017, 10:17:41 PM
WTF . Maybe we don't need a Manager then .

Hey, it was your logic! If the club is so well run that the manager is immaterial? However since there is a requirement to speak to the press, have a name listed as manager, etc, we'd still have to have a manager. But the well run club would mean that his ability would be irrelevant.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 16, 2017, 10:28:42 PM
The rookie Leeds manager, Thomas Christiansen has made a bright start

If Leeds get (automatic)promotion and have a decent Premier League season next year, he'll be up for consideration in 2019

Unless, of course, we manage to go big time and lure the likes of Simeone

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 16, 2017, 11:20:57 PM
Just what we need to boost the morale, a rookie manager! No, stick with Koeman until the evidence points definitively that we must make the change. That is not yet.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 16, 2017, 11:33:05 PM
He won't be a rookie, come 2019
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Coyb12 on September 16, 2017, 11:36:06 PM
He won't be a rookie, come 2019
And You won't no were to find him because Leeds will sack when he loses a few games and he will disappear from were he came.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 16, 2017, 11:39:48 PM
Hey, it was your logic! If the club is so well run that the manager is immaterial? However since there is a requirement to speak to the press, have a name listed as manager, etc, we'd still have to have a manager. But the well run club would mean that his ability would be irrelevant.

All of which I am sure Unsworth could manage .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 16, 2017, 11:47:35 PM
Any other predictions, Coyb12?

Will these three be sacked?

Hodgson
Redknapp
Bruce

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2017, 01:00:57 AM
I would like someone smarter than me to take a look at other sides in the past who have lost their main man without replacing him. Lukaku was our best striker since the 80s and we haven't replaced him.

I'd also look at teams who have made such wholesale changes, to personel and system. Tottenham and The Shite come to mind of course, a cursory look over Milan's results so far this season is quite interesting given their summer.

Finally I'd probably look at teams with aging captains.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 17, 2017, 01:10:56 AM
So we should've had 9 new players in the first team instead of 7?

I think some people are misunderstanding the reasons why our season has started so poorly.

If you're saying we are better off without a new striker and another left sided centre half just because it would too much change otherwise then I'm not sure I agree with you there bud.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 17, 2017, 05:12:21 AM
All of which I am sure Unsworth could manage .
True, but so could Koeman, making a change pointless, unless we could get him to quit without compensation. But since the club doesn't run itself this whole line of reasoning is moot.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on September 17, 2017, 05:29:45 AM
Any other predictions, Coyb12?

Will these three be sacked?

Hodgson
Redknapp
Bruce
At this point predicting Redknapp will be sacked should probably not be classed as a prediction.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 17, 2017, 05:34:07 AM
And woy's got it hard crystal palace lost 5 in a row and have got man city,,man u and chelsea next lolol
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2017, 05:35:50 AM
So we should've had 9 new players in the first team instead of 7?

I think some people are misunderstanding the reasons why our season has started so poorly.

I think you are from the sound of it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 17, 2017, 05:38:43 AM
I think you are from the sound of it.

You don't think it's anything to do with the wholesale changes to the first team?

When in the history of club football has that led to instant success?

It's not the only issue but it's a massive and underappreciated one. Changing Jags and Baines as well is the last thing that would've helped the situation. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 17, 2017, 06:16:08 AM
You don't think it's anything to do with the wholesale changes to the first team?

When in the history of club football has that led to instant success?

It's not the only issue but it's a massive and underappreciated one. Changing Jags and Baines as well is the last thing that would've helped the situation. 

No i do think it's a big part of it, but it's not that we've bought lots of new players, if we'd have bought players to directly replace or upgrade the players we had then it wouldn't be as big an issue, it's the fact we have bought a shit load of players and seem to have bought them to play a new system, which I can totally understand, but when the dust has settled you look at the squad and there are MAJOR gaps that should have been resolved, two of which the manager himself could not have been more open about. So your result is a squad that doesn't know one another, still has glaring gaps, and doesn't truly understand the system yet.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 17, 2017, 04:09:25 PM
You don't think it's anything to do with the wholesale changes to the first team?

When in the history of club football has that led to instant success?

It's not the only issue but it's a massive and underappreciated one. Changing Jags and Baines as well is the last thing that would've helped the situation. 

That's not what people are saying though. You're imagining an argument so you can make a point.

Buying a new striker would've brought more advantages than otherwise. Buying a left sided defender would've brought more flexibility than having to rely on rotating an ageing Jags and Williams every week, all the while hoping Keane or Baines doesn't pick up a knock as well.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 17, 2017, 04:14:12 PM
True, but so could Koeman, making a change pointless, unless we could get him to quit without compensation. But since the club doesn't run itself this whole line of reasoning is moot.

Persistent little fucker aren't you :)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 17, 2017, 08:43:35 PM
I think given time Koeman's capable of coaching us in to a better defensive shape.

That could take a while though. We've got a midweek game every week until the October international break. If we get past Sunderland in the cup, that's going to extend at a minimum into November.

Will he actually have the opportunity in training to get the message across to the players? Especially if we're also trying to fix an attack and concentrate on the next opponents too? Even with the easier games coming up, this is something that could drag on a while longer yet.

The same problems will obviously extend to any new managers that come in too, so it goes both ways. Just something that I've been mulling over.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: nwatson on September 17, 2017, 10:13:14 PM
Today is going to be an embarrassment on live tv. Can't get out of our own half and the way the team is set up is disgraceful. Needs gone today. He doesn't deserve the next run of games to save face and paper over the cracks.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 17, 2017, 10:15:25 PM
Today is going to be an embarrassment on live tv. Can't get out of our own half and the way the team is set up is disgraceful. Needs gone today. He doesn't deserve the next run of games to save face and paper over the cracks.
Been the same for weeks absolute dog shit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 17, 2017, 11:50:54 PM
Yes, get someone in for Bournemouth would be my hope.

Won't happen, we'll stick with Koeman, Bournemouth will score first and the crowd will turn.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: IUToffee on September 17, 2017, 11:52:04 PM
Yes
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blargins on September 17, 2017, 11:52:31 PM
Yes. Although we played the best we've played all season, he continues to make daft substitutions. Williams needs sacking off as well. He cost us that game.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 17, 2017, 11:53:32 PM
Yes get rid,
He's totally shit
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 17, 2017, 11:55:13 PM
Yes get rid,
He's totally shit

keep him til the end of October, least that way it will be unanimous, Everton fans still believe its cos we have played the best teams, they cant see that the tactics we deploy are shocking... least if we fail against crap teams, something might spark.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 17, 2017, 11:55:47 PM
The thing is with that game is that although we lost by 4 to nil koeman won't get sacked as they 'll say there was visble improvement.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on September 17, 2017, 11:56:59 PM
The thing is with that game is that although we lost by 4 to nil koeman won't get sacked as they 'll say there was visble improvement.

Which there clearly was. If you sack Koeman it should be based on the games up to now and the series of poor results, not on the basis of today
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blargins on September 17, 2017, 11:58:45 PM
Williams and Koeman cost us that game. Williams with his shit pass to a Utd player, and Koeman for taking off two of our players who were pressing and getting in Utds face. It left us with just Schneiderlin and the defence to control anything. Everyone else was lightweight and up front.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 18, 2017, 12:02:22 AM
Which there clearly was. If you sack Koeman it should be based on the games up to now and the series of poor results, not on the basis of today
Not enough for me. We still lost, let in 4 after another collapse and failed to score AGAIN. The mistakes koeman/The board have made have fooked up the season already.

I hope he turns it round I really do but facts are facts and we are now in the bottom 3 despite a massive spend.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: hannu on September 18, 2017, 12:03:51 AM
yes sack him
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 12:04:13 AM
We are proper fucked aren't we
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 18, 2017, 12:04:15 AM
Koeman's substitute choices have been pretty poor all season. More often than not they've taken us backward in a game.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 18, 2017, 12:04:39 AM
What the fuck was he thinking with the Davies and Gana subs?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 18, 2017, 12:11:33 AM
What the fuck was he thinking with the Davies and Gana subs?



Dunno, but today did show at least Davies should always be in the side. We need that energy.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Escla on September 18, 2017, 12:12:06 AM
Jamie Carragher talking a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 18, 2017, 12:12:50 AM
Dunno, but today did show at least Davies should always be in the side. We need that energy.

Odd that he was talking him down as well in his press conference.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blargins on September 18, 2017, 12:13:05 AM
Jamie Carragher talking a lot of sense.

What did he say?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Escla on September 18, 2017, 12:14:06 AM
What did he say?
Our lack of pace with two central defenders the wrong sid of 30 is a major issue.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 18, 2017, 12:14:57 AM
Think I was one of the earliest on here to express massive doubts about Koeman when it wasn't fashionable, so I do get it, but it's still silly to sack him after that run of games so early in the season.

Need a few back-to-back wins quicktime.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Coyb12 on September 18, 2017, 12:15:29 AM
What did he say?
Koemans a cunt.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 12:17:20 AM
Koemans on his way to Ellesmere Port
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 18, 2017, 12:20:32 AM
I'm worried about recruitment more than I'm worried about coaching. We had a lot of money to play with this summer and we have an expensively assembled mess to show for it. At least one of two things has to happen: (1) We need to revoke Koeman's veto power on incoming transfers, or (2) Walsh needs to be replaced.

We can survive bad coaching decisions but it's a lot harder to deal with the fallout from bad transfers. It's not just the initial waste of money but the money you need to spend to replace the players who didn't work out. We sunk £40-45m into Sigurdsson when we had already signed Klaassen and fresh blood at CB, LB, and CF were bigger areas of need. That's a huge fucking problem.

I know it's easy to play this game after the fact and that transfers are a lot more complicated than in FIFA/PES/Football Manager but just imagine how much better this squad looks if we do something like this:

Don't Sign:

Sigurdsson (£40-45m)

Sign:

one of Iheanacho (£25m)/Mounie (£11.5m)/Haller (£10m)
one of Maguire (£17m)/Wimmer (£18m)/Martins Indi (£7m)/Dragovic (loan fee)
a young left back like Charlie Taylor (tribunal)/Rico Henry (I'm guessing under £10m but hard to say since he didn't move this summer)

Williams takes a back seat, we have a natural centre forward to take the burden off of Rooney/Calvert-Lewin, and we get a talented left back to compete with and occasionally spell Baines. And we're short one player who doesn't seem to fit in anywhere in our first eleven.

I'm not trying to condemn Sigurdsson here because I do think he has genuine qualities. But we've spent a crazy amount to bring him into a set-up that doesn't suit his strengths while neglecting more pressing areas. That's way more concerning to me than overpaying for a good-not-great player.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 18, 2017, 12:21:33 AM
No, not yet.

We've shown signs of a good performance today, it was a mistake from Williams that caused it to unravel.

All the fixtures from now up until the end of October/start of November will be the proper litmus test.

The fact we don't have a decent striker is probably not Koemans fault.
Title: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: dangermouse on September 18, 2017, 12:22:57 AM
Seriously..... I'll be giving the this and all Everton sites a miss until normal service resumes... Yes our performances have been shit but really did anyone expect more from these 5 games?

I'm not pissed off because people don't agree with me I just end up getting wound-up reading all the comments

To me, the majority of people calling for Koeman have issues with Kenwright or the Board and are just using these results to push for some other agenda.

If it's not that it's just completely unrealistic fans.

I'll be back when we've all calmed down so I don't risk giving myself an embolism .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bally on September 18, 2017, 12:23:31 AM
Koemans a cunt.
Get banned from Twitter for that hahaha
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 18, 2017, 12:25:55 AM
I'm worried about recruitment more than I'm worried about coaching. We had a lot of money to play with this summer and we have an expensively assembled mess to show for it. At least one of two things has to happen: (1) We need to revoke Koeman's veto power on incoming transfers, or (2) Walsh needs to be replaced.

We can survive bad coaching decisions but it's a lot harder to deal with the fallout from bad transfers. It's not just the initial waste of money but the money you need to spend to replace the players who didn't work out. We sunk £40-45m into Sigurdsson when we had already signed Klaassen and fresh blood at CB, LB, and CF were bigger areas of need. That's a huge fucking problem.

I know it's easy to play this game after the fact and that transfers are a lot more complicated than in FIFA/PES/Football Manager but just imagine how much better this squad looks if we do something like this:

Don't Sign:

Sigurdsson (£40-45m)

Sign:

one of Iheanacho (£25m)/Mounie (£11.5m)/Haller (£10m)
one of Maguire (£17m)/Wimmer (£18m)/Martins Indi (£7m)/Dragovic (loan fee)
a young left back like Charlie Taylor (tribunal)/Rico Henry (I'm guessing around £10m but hard to say since he didn't move this summer)

Williams takes a back seat, we have a natural centre forward to take the burden off of Rooney/Calvert-Lewin, and we get a talented left back to compete with and occasionally spell Baines. And we're short one player who doesn't seem to fit in anywhere in our first eleven.

I'm not trying to condemn Sigurdsson here because I do think he has genuine qualities. But we've spent a crazy amount to bring him into a set-up that doesn't suit his strengths while neglecting more pressing areas. That's way more concerning to me than overpaying for a good-not-great player.

Couldn't agree more. Can't work out who is to blame as you mention between Koeman veto (and making a lot of what I think are his signings) or Walsh.

I think the Walsh players tend to be the more obscure ones, which makes me lean toward Koeman as being the issue.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 18, 2017, 12:29:57 AM
One of the issues with the DoF role is the blurring of responsibilities and accountability.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on September 18, 2017, 12:31:36 AM
Koemans a cunt.
Cunts are useful.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on September 18, 2017, 12:32:33 AM
One of the issues with the DoF role is the blurring of responsibilities and accountability.

But then, it doesn't take a genius to work out who signed Cuco Martina and Ashley Williams.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 18, 2017, 12:32:48 AM
One of the issues with the DoF role is the blurring of responsibilities and accountability.

absolutely. Can't help but think koeman's oddly timed Holiday was a point making exercise.

"Out of my hands innit"
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 18, 2017, 12:33:36 AM
But then, it doesn't take a genius to work out who signed Cuco Martina and Ashley Williams.

Cuco was alright.

Williams is terrible. Him alongside Jags and Keane is just a disaster like, three absolute cloggers.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on September 18, 2017, 12:35:34 AM
Cuco was alright.

Williams is terrible. Him alongside Jags and Keane is just a disaster like, three absolute cloggers.

Problem with Martina is he's alright in one position, RWB.

He's horrendous in a back four.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on September 18, 2017, 12:37:03 AM
This season was going to start in one of two ways. With all new signings flying or with them struggling.  They are struggling so we've had a poor start.

Regardless of who is in charge there are much better performances to come from all of the summer signings. That's one of the main reasons i remain optimistic and don't want us to pull the trigger on Koeman
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on September 18, 2017, 12:38:01 AM
Problem with Martina is he's alright in one position, RWB.

He's horrendous in a back four.

He might be ok with a quick centre back to cover for him.  We haven't got one though. That is the issue
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 12:39:22 AM
absolutely. Can't help but think koeman's oddly timed Holiday was a point making exercise.

"Out of my hands innit"

Unless it was genuinely out of his hands or the rumour that the only money left available had been spent on Vlasic?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Major Clanger on September 18, 2017, 12:39:40 AM
Seriously..... I'll be giving the this and all Everton sites a miss until normal service resumes... Yes our performances have been shit but really did anyone expect more from these 5 games?

I sort of have. At least one draw, some actual shots on targez and far fewer goals conceded.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 18, 2017, 12:39:59 AM
I think injuries obviously haven't helped him. Coleman and Bolasie are big misses but even McCarthy, Barkley and Mori give us something different.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 18, 2017, 12:40:37 AM
I think given time Koeman's capable of coaching us in to a better defensive shape.


He did that last year. We were perfectly fine but we've started this season worse than we left off. This is the one area that I'm disappointed with. With the lack of striker and width I could understand us looking a bit toothless but a goal difference of -8 after 5 games is pretty poor, regardless of the teams we've played. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on September 18, 2017, 12:44:34 AM
Walsh seems to be getting criticised more and more but I do wonder to what extent he is to blame for the situation we are in especially as it is not clear what remit he has been given by the powers above except to manage the scouting network and communicate with Koeman to see what kind of players he wants brought into the club.

I'm not necessarily absolving Walsh of any responsibility but I just don't know how much he is involved in the transfer process. I think Kenwright is still very active in the negotiation side of things and it sounds like he played a key role in bringing Sigurdsson to Everton and told him at that time "I will do the deal but we need to be patient". I don't know what Moshiri's role is except to act as spokesperson for Everton when Jim White is live on air.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 18, 2017, 12:49:30 AM
First time since the City match that he's set up with a decent team shape.

If Schneiderlin showed any evidence of pulling his finger out, I'd suggest today's back 5 could be the way forward until Coleman's back but...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: christiffa25 on September 18, 2017, 12:53:06 AM
Not a Koeman fan. Think he's overrated. But even I don't think the sack should be contemplated at the moment. That's crazy!

Coleman , bollasie and Barkley are big players to be missing. Even Mori tbh is a big miss given are current defensive woes.

I do think we've gone a bit Spurs/bale money with our signings though to be fair. I honestly don't think we've added genuine quality that the teams above us would be envious of.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blargins on September 18, 2017, 12:59:48 AM
Barkley is not a miss because Koeman doesn't even have him in his plans. Coleman is a huge miss, Bolasie also.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rhys on September 18, 2017, 01:00:14 AM
One of the issues with the DoF role is the blurring of responsibilities and accountability.

For fans, it shouldn't for the club. The club should know what koeman has been responsible for and what Walsh is responsible for. It is our first attempt at the role so it is possible it isn't as well drilled in terms of who does what as some clubs might be.

But ultimately koeman should mainly be judged on how well he coaches the players, how well he gets the players he is given to perform and the results following that.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: cantoffee on September 18, 2017, 01:03:11 AM
I'm confident he can resolve our issues at the back as we were generally quite solid last year.

I have basically no faith in him figuring out how we are going to score. We don't have the personnel or the tactics to break teams down. They can play a high line against us as we have no pace or threat in behind. It makes the field incredibly compact and hard to create anything meaningful.

We also don't seem to have a natural goalscorer in the squad which is a problem whether we have pace or not.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 18, 2017, 01:05:50 AM
For fans, it shouldn't for the club. The club should know what koeman has been responsible for and what Walsh is responsible for. It is our first attempt at the role so it is possible it isn't as well drilled in terms of who does what as some clubs might be.

But ultimately koeman should mainly be judged on how well he coaches the players, how well he gets the players he is given to perform and the results following that.

True but in any collective decision making process there will be differences of opinion or strength of feeling. Even if the roles are incredibly well defined. I can't imagine Koeman is a shrinking violet in those meetings.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 18, 2017, 01:24:42 AM
Where/who is the problem with our club koeman states he still needs 2 players,,we must have the money as we supposedly have either £40m or £60m sat in an account for a rainy day to borrow plus moshiri is supposed to be loaded and it was known we had £100m pot to spend of which weve done about £40m so should at least be quite a bit left,,were in the best postion weve been in for years and it still turns to shit wtf is going on
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 18, 2017, 01:28:19 AM
Problem with Martina is he's alright in one position, RWB.

He's horrendous in a back four.

Edit: wait, we played a back 5 didn't we? Shit sorry ignore.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Coyb12 on September 18, 2017, 01:28:59 AM
We are boring, predictable and slow and most teams in the prem will deal with that quite easily.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TerryFeckWit on September 18, 2017, 02:28:24 AM
Alas I think he will be gone by 22/10 at the very latest, I do believe he should be given a fair crack of the whip, but can't help thinking things are not good behind the scenes. Maybe not lost the dressing room, but confidence has absolutely crashed and do not believe the players share his 'vision'/have a clue what he's taking about. Oh where has that excitement, optimism and eager anticipation from the summer gone?!! COYB we still have quite a good team in there somewhere, honest!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 18, 2017, 02:39:45 AM
The next three fixtures will decide the mans future IMHO,anything bar 3 victories will result in his departure.Octobers fixtures may give us optimism but there are a number of reversals lurking in there.Three positive displays and bang a few in may well give the group the confidence to achieve more positives for an awkward October.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: DanDan on September 18, 2017, 03:07:23 AM
Don't know if it's been mentioned in an earlier post but didn't see it but Koeman was 20/1 to be next manager to leave on Thursday. He is now 5/2 second favourite to go! Mad how a couple of games can change things so dramatically
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: terrydarracotsbaldpate on September 18, 2017, 03:30:19 AM
We are boring, predictable and slow and most teams in the prem will deal with that quite easily.
Slow no Bolasie so why not Lookman? It looks like a world class centre half has turned Michael Keane into my old friend Steve Seargent
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 18, 2017, 04:22:52 AM
It is possible that the club might exonerate Koeman from the main blame and sack those responsible for the failure to sign the two strikers and a winger he asked for. It is however much more likely that he will carry the can and be gone in a month or so, but it is worrying who might replace him. There are a few well known time servers lurking around, and the board might give Unsworth until Christmas. I hope not as I think Unsie will be like Mike Walker, a man trying to stand up in a hurricane. January will be crucial to decide which end of the table we will be scrapping in.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 18, 2017, 04:31:03 AM
A report in the echo saying koemans will leave the jan transfer window to steve walsh and he will concentrate on the team
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Andy1878 on September 18, 2017, 06:12:45 AM
I struggle to understand how anyone can support or defend Koeman. The away performances and team set up last season convinced me that he was not capable. What we have seen so far this season is just a negative, gutless, disorganised shambles. It's obvious we got it wrong in the transfer window, surely you buy players to fit a system or style of play, if you have one that is. It is soul destroying to watch his team, no width, no flair or imagination. His team selections and substitutions never fail to disappoint either. He plays players out of position, regularly picks overly defensive teams that don't work, sends players out on loan when we have no cover at left back, plays with no pace or width, it's just all round awful to watch. He is one of the highest paid managers in world football and failing miserably, there is no happy ending here.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 18, 2017, 06:23:00 AM
3 wins in the last 23 away :cheers:
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Cereal Killer on September 18, 2017, 03:23:12 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned anywhere else but Koeman said we need to win the next 4 home games, and if we don't win it would be best to stop

Is he suggesting he'll walk if we don't win them??
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on September 18, 2017, 03:34:52 PM
Personally I think Koeman biggest failing is his inability to set up aside without a proper targetman.

I think things would have been quite different if we'd recruited his 1st or 2nd choice.

Rooney could play number 10 and drop deeper like he does now and not leave us with  no one up top.

All these nice shiny new#10s would have someone be to play off.

Cuco M would have someone to aim his crosses at.

Until we get a proper striker for Koemans tactics we're gonna struggle.

No one can fulfill that role properly from the current squad and Koeman can't adapt his system to get it to fit HIS players.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 18, 2017, 03:48:40 PM
Personally I think Koeman biggest failing is his inability to set up aside without a proper targetman.

I think things would have been quite different if we'd recruited his 1st or 2nd choice.

Rooney could play number 10 and drop deeper like he does now and not leave us with  no one up top.

All these nice shiny new#10s would have someone be to play off.

Cuco M would have someone to aim his crosses at.

Until we get a proper striker for Koemans tactics we're gonna struggle.

No one can fulfill that role properly from the current squad and Koeman can't adapt his system to get it to fit HIS players.



I agree and to be absolutely fair, Koeman was desperate for us to sign a striker.

Bad sign for DCL that he can't stake a claim.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 18, 2017, 03:57:57 PM
Top and bottom of it is we don't have that target man until January at least so he's going to either have to trust DCL or Sandro, or swallow his pride and give Niasse a shot.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 18, 2017, 04:06:34 PM
Top and bottom of it is we don't have that target man until January at least so he's going to either have to trust DCL or Sandro, or swallow his pride and give Niasse a shot.

Well I mean he's tried DCL, he's tried Sandro, he's tried Rooney - none of them seem up to that particular job tbh.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 18, 2017, 04:08:06 PM
A report in the echo saying koemans will leave the jan transfer window to steve walsh and he will concentrate on the team

I thought he did that anyway.

I would imagine a potential signing would be more interested to hear the manager's ideas on football than the Director of Football's
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 18, 2017, 04:12:05 PM
Well I mean he's tried DCL, he's tried Sandro, he's tried Rooney - none of them seem up to that particular job tbh.

Which leaves Niasse..... unless we recall the lad from Anderlecht? But I'm thinking he's not done much whilst there?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: DanDan on September 18, 2017, 04:52:17 PM
Which leaves Niasse..... unless we recall the lad from Anderlecht? But I'm thinking he's not done much whilst there?

I didn't think he had the requirements for a Visa as yet. Though he has scored in the last couple of games for them
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 06:51:26 PM
A report in the echo saying koemans will leave the jan transfer window to steve walsh and he will concentrate on the team

And people wonder why we're a mess
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 18, 2017, 06:54:40 PM
And people wonder why we're a mess

What's wrong with that?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueMaquis on September 18, 2017, 06:55:38 PM
His latest interview should be disturbing to any Everton fan. Saying that a realistic target is to finish the same as last year... well, is it any wonder the players are not motivated to perform?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 06:58:57 PM
What's wrong with that?

So we pay him £130k a week to do what? Take the players for training and pick from players he's had chosen for him?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 18, 2017, 06:59:33 PM
Top and bottom of it is we don't have that target man until January at least so he's going to either have to trust DCL or Sandro, or swallow his pride and give Niasse a shot.


Or switch the team and tactics to suit the players we do have.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 18, 2017, 07:03:52 PM
So we pay him £130k a week to do what? Take the players for training and pick from players he's had chosen for him?

That's usually how it works with a director of football
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 07:12:27 PM
That's usually how it works with a director of football

Well it's a shit system, as you can see from where we're at now.
The manager should be responsible for the signings.
What qualifies Walsh to sign players for us?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 18, 2017, 07:13:43 PM
Well it's a shit system, as you can see from where we're at now.
The manager should be responsible for the signings.
What qualifies Walsh to sign players for us?

Erm, he did a rather good job of it at Leicester
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 07:21:42 PM
Erm, he did a rather good job of it at Leicester

Did he? What exactly did he do @ Leicester? Because he never discovered any of the players they signed like Kante or Mahrez, he just oversaw the negotiations
So because he did that he then gets a job at Everton where he identifies players and signs them?
It's an absolute joke, he's equally to blame with Koeman
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 18, 2017, 07:25:16 PM
Wasn't he chief scout at Leicester ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 07:27:53 PM
Wasn't he chief scout at Leicester ?

He didn't discover Kante or Mahrez, who arguably with Vardy were the reason they won the league.

So what qualifies him to pick the players we're gonna sign?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 18, 2017, 07:31:25 PM
He didn't discover Kante or Mahrez, who arguably with Vardy were the reason they won the league.

So what qualifies him to pick the players we're gonna sign?

He still had a major part to play in building that side.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 18, 2017, 07:34:16 PM
He didn't discover Kante or Mahrez, who arguably with Vardy were the reason they won the league.

So what qualifies him to pick the players we're gonna sign?
[quote Walsh asked an agent based in Paris to bring Kante over to England in early August and, for three days, they had him switch off his phone. He wasn't allowed to turn it on again until he had put pen to paper on a contract at Leicester's Belvoir Drive training ground. "We had to almost kidnap him," Walsh told Jonathan Northcroft of the Sunday Times. "I had friends in France bring him over. His primary agent didn't even know he was there."

Ranieri had been unable to persuade Esteban Cambiasso to sign a new contract, and as he revealed in a recent appearance on Sky Sports, Walsh presented him with two potential replacements: Kante or Jordy Clasie, then on the brink of leaving Feyenoord. While he plumped for Kante, he was unsure about how to fit him into the team.

In his first appearances in Leicester blue, Kante found himself being used as a wide midfielder, a position he had last occupied during his final season at Suresnes. But after testing him out in central midfield, Ranieri came to his senses and just as at Suresnes, Boulogne and Caen, once he got into the team, there was no shifting him.

By the time of Manchester United's visit in late November 2015, Ranieri had discovered the team that would win the title, Kante anchoring the midfield alongside Danny Drinkwater. As Walsh was fond of quipping, "We always play three in midfield—Drinkwater in the middle, and Kante either side."[/quote]


Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 07:37:57 PM
[quote Walsh asked an agent based in Paris to bring Kante over to England in early August and, for three days, they had him switch off his phone. He wasn't allowed to turn it on again until he had put pen to paper on a contract at Leicester's Belvoir Drive training ground. "We had to almost kidnap him," Walsh told Jonathan Northcroft of the Sunday Times. "I had friends in France bring him over. His primary agent didn't even know he was there."

Ranieri had been unable to persuade Esteban Cambiasso to sign a new contract, and as he revealed in a recent appearance on Sky Sports, Walsh presented him with two potential replacements: Kante or Jordy Clasie, then on the brink of leaving Feyenoord. While he plumped for Kante, he was unsure about how to fit him into the team.

In his first appearances in Leicester blue, Kante found himself being used as a wide midfielder, a position he had last occupied during his final season at Suresnes. But after testing him out in central midfield, Ranieri came to his senses and just as at Suresnes, Boulogne and Caen, once he got into the team, there was no shifting him.

By the time of Manchester United's visit in late November 2015, Ranieri had discovered the team that would win the title, Kante anchoring the midfield alongside Danny Drinkwater. As Walsh was fond of quipping, "We always play three in midfield—Drinkwater in the middle, and Kante either side."

So he was the liaison between the scouting network and the management @ Leicester? And?

Like I said before he didn't discover Kante, Kante was on his way to Marseille but they could only offer £5m so Leicester offered £8m

So my question still stands - what qualifies him to make our signings?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 07:39:44 PM
He still had a major part to play in building that side.

I'm not seeing it tbh
He's just playing a game of footie manager with real money & riding the life out of the fact that Leicester won the league while he was a scout there

We're doomed to fail while this guy is taking over transfers
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 18, 2017, 07:43:03 PM
It's fucking depressing watching one person's almost certain personality disorder playing out on the forum day after day after fucking day.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 07:44:13 PM
It's fucking depressing watching one person's almost certain personality disorder playing out on the forum day after day after fucking day.

Got nothing to do with personality you idiot
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 18, 2017, 07:45:31 PM
So he was the liaison between the scouting network and the management @ Leicester? And?

That's what he does here.
The thing that qualifies him for signing players is Moshiri
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: phillyt on September 18, 2017, 07:52:43 PM
Would it be a good idea to reset the poll at the top and see what the results would be now?  I know we did it a few times with the Martinez one and it was interesting to see the results slowly change.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 18, 2017, 07:55:07 PM
He did discover Mahrez. Leicester sent him to watch somebody else but Mahrez stood out and that's who Walsh recommended.

That's splitting hairs, anyhow. Koeman has no expertise at evaluating and signing players (see: Martina, Cuco). Every club at which he's succeeded (the three big Dutch clubs, Southampton) has had a sporting director of some type. We shouldn't be happy with Everton's recruitment over the past three windows because it hasn't been good enough but Koeman is not the answer.

The manager's primary job is to prepare the players for matches and help them improve on their weaknesses. He should be spending all of his time doing that. Recruitment is a time intensive job that distracts from a manager's true responsibilities. Or, to put it another way, do you really think Koeman has enough time for coaching/preparing his team, finding suitable transfer targets, playing golf, and going on vacation?

The do-it-all manager model is outdated, as evidenced by there being zero top teams in world football that let their manager control everything. It is 100% right for us to have a director of football. Whether Walsh is the best person for that job is another question and hard to analyze since none of us are sure how much control he has.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 18, 2017, 08:04:52 PM
That's what he does here.
The thing that qualifies him for signing players is Moshiri

Ah ok
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 18, 2017, 08:13:37 PM
Some re-writing of history going on here.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Redartin on September 18, 2017, 08:29:06 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned anywhere else but Koeman said we need to win the next 4 home games, and if we don't win it would be best to stop

Is he suggesting he'll walk if we don't win them??

I thought that was a strange thing to say, I know there is a Dutch to English translation thing sometimes but maybe he is giving himself 4 games to turn it. Yet another motivational gem.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 18, 2017, 08:57:39 PM
He is not a gifted orator at least not in English which is not his fault and does not matter anyway. Of course we can be confused when his meaning is not made plain. I am sure he meant a reassessment in the event of results not going our way. Anyone talking about 4 must wins is talking nonsense. You cannot command that level in the PL. 3 wins would be great, 2 wins would be sign of the start of a recovery from a very low place.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 18, 2017, 09:53:10 PM
Interesting.

https://twitter.com/sos1878/status/909738593559695360
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 18, 2017, 09:53:58 PM
Interesting.

https://twitter.com/sos1878/status/909738593559695360
Bring up their home records
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 18, 2017, 10:01:04 PM
Bring up their home records

Of course. It's not a post to re-write history and put Martinez-tinted specs on.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 18, 2017, 10:53:22 PM
Of course. It's not a post to re-write history and put Martinez-tinted specs on.
Although not totally reflective it does give some indication of the lack of ideas shown away from home by koeman.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueMaquis on September 19, 2017, 04:14:48 AM
He is not a gifted orator at least not in English which is not his fault and does not matter anyway. Of course we can be confused when his meaning is not made plain. I am sure he meant a reassessment in the event of results not going our way. Anyone talking about 4 must wins is talking nonsense. You cannot command that level in the PL. 3 wins would be great, 2 wins would be sign of the start of a recovery from a very low place.

I would guess that he means if we don't win ANY of the next 4 games, it would be best to stop.

What he means by "stop" is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 19, 2017, 05:39:22 AM
I'll be stopping myself if we don't win any of the next 4 home games.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bacon sarnie on September 19, 2017, 07:22:41 PM
He's catching on.....

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/sep/19/david-squires-cartoon-harry-redknapp-football-managers-early-season-troubles
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on September 19, 2017, 09:13:00 PM
Ah ok

to answer your question realist..what qualifies him to "choose" our players...is his coaching badges...along with his experience of working with players....along with being an ex professional......plus experience....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 20, 2017, 01:30:38 AM
He's catching on.....

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/sep/19/david-squires-cartoon-harry-redknapp-football-managers-early-season-troubles
Following Togger is getting closer to subscribing to Viz.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 20, 2017, 01:35:20 AM
He's catching on.....

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/sep/19/david-squires-cartoon-harry-redknapp-football-managers-early-season-troubles

Superb simpsons reference.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KingOfNapaValley on September 21, 2017, 12:29:22 AM
I hear DeBoer is available.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 21, 2017, 12:31:40 AM
We could have the Two Ronnies
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bacon sarnie on September 21, 2017, 12:37:14 AM
We could have the Two Ronnies


...and its good fuckin night from him!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 21, 2017, 12:43:18 AM
And Frankie goes to Hollywood
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue slug on September 21, 2017, 01:27:52 AM
Do people think koeman could be in danger of the sack if we lose tonight or is this seen as a nothing cup
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 21, 2017, 01:37:52 AM
Hypothetical - we won't lose!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on September 23, 2017, 10:25:10 PM
Imho enough is enough ....he has fuck all of a clue how to manage a team ...what the fuck is he playing at ?...spent more than moyes in ten years and we are worse than under Martinez
Thankfully had to work today never went the game .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: AllyBlue14 on September 23, 2017, 10:33:09 PM
No way he's getting sacked, this early anyway.

Not saying I want Moyes back or anything, but it does make you appreciate the stability we had under him for so long (after the initial few seasons of topsy turvey).

What's the answer - persevere with a manager through thick and thin? (Even though we know he'll probably be off after this contract anyway). Or chop and change from one season to the next? Because that seems to be about the extent of the success a new manager has.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 23, 2017, 11:03:20 PM
Oumar has saved his bacon there imo.

Summer window looking worse and worse.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 23, 2017, 11:08:18 PM
Oumar has saved his bacon there imo.

Summer window looking worse and worse.
Same people crabbing him thought Straqualursi ran his tripes out for the club ffs
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 23, 2017, 11:13:31 PM
He's a very lucky man.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 23, 2017, 11:52:49 PM
Wonder if he reverts back to no pace/wingers and Rooney as the main striker, along with Sandro/Klaassen/siggy behind him against Limossal... if he does.. he needs to be sacked.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 23, 2017, 11:54:33 PM
Cannot beat a bit of luck

Better to be lucky than talented

The more you practice, the luckier you get
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 23, 2017, 11:58:17 PM
Was he fuck getting sacked today if we got beat
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 23, 2017, 11:59:12 PM
Hypothetical - we didn't get beat!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 24, 2017, 12:30:11 AM
A few points in his favour for his changes, a few more points against him for once again getting it wrong from the start.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Tinga on September 25, 2017, 04:29:41 AM
I really hope he turns us around majorly because we're in danger of stagnating again and that means we lose Gueye and players like that when they get fed up of fighting 7th place. I honestly thought we may have been pushing past this but it seems not so far.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 28, 2017, 09:49:27 PM
Ancelotti is available... :)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41429526
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 28, 2017, 10:18:56 PM
Ancelotti is available... :)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41429526

There goes Tuchel.  :(
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 28, 2017, 10:27:26 PM
There goes Tuchel.  :(

Oh was is he linked? Would make sense.

Maybe that's why he turned down West Ham  :whistle:

http://futnsoccer.com/2017/09/28/thomas-tuchel-gives-his-decision-regarding-west-ham-job/
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on September 28, 2017, 10:31:09 PM
There goes Tuchel.  :(

Willy Sagnol's been appointed until the end of the season then they apparently want Julian Nagelsmann.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 28, 2017, 10:38:18 PM
Davy is waiting in the wings... Nah, Koeman is going nowhere. We are not Mickey Mouse Crystal Palace yet.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 28, 2017, 10:40:36 PM
Willy Sagnol's been appointed until the end of the season then they apparently want Julian Nagelsmann.

Some rumours about Klopp too going around, probably nothing to it though. Would be kinda funny though. Although I'd be more worried about them bringing in Ancelotti than keeping Klopp.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 28, 2017, 11:17:15 PM
Lovely to hear Willy Sagnol get a mention.

God bless him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on September 29, 2017, 03:54:18 AM
Bump!!!! .....they showed again today theyre not playing for Koeman he's a cunt.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 29, 2017, 03:55:37 AM
This guy is turning us into a laughing stock. Fucking useless
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on September 29, 2017, 03:57:25 AM
Yeah get him out whilst we've still got a chance in this group.

Attacking football my arse.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 29, 2017, 03:57:56 AM
We'll find ourselves out of Europe, out the league cup and 12 in the league by the time December comes if we stick by Koeman

If the board has the ambition it says it has then we'll sack him now and address the issue before the season is over.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 29, 2017, 03:59:48 AM
They dont have the ambition though do they.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: charlatan on September 29, 2017, 04:00:34 AM
Has to go tonight
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 29, 2017, 04:00:47 AM
So many fooking issues. Signings terrible.....formation terrible....team not motivated.

Why oh why did we set up with 2 defensive midfielders and no pace against such a shit team? Embarrasing
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 29, 2017, 04:01:09 AM
Without over reacting or going over the top....that was a fuckin terrible result, really, we should be putting that game to bed in the first half.

Is it only a matter of time now? Is he always going to be 2 bad consecutive performances away from the sack?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 29, 2017, 04:02:14 AM
While there's good managers out of work I don't see the point of continuing with Koeman.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 04:03:03 AM
He's trash, what does he honestly give us?
I'd sack him the joke
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 04:04:27 AM
We'll find ourselves out of Europe, out the league cup and 12 in the league by the time December comes if we stick by Koeman

If the board has the ambition it says it has then we'll sack him now and address the issue before the season is over.

Don't like calling for managers heads prematurely, but I agree with everything you've said and I could see the scenario you refer to happening. If we want to be a bigger club, we should behave like a bigger club and not tolerate prolonged underachievement.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluenuck on September 29, 2017, 04:04:44 AM
While there's good managers out of work I don't see the point of continuing with Koeman.

Who? (Seriously)

And don't put Ancelotti. Or Pardew... Or Fat Sam...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 29, 2017, 04:04:59 AM
While there's good managers out of work I don't see the point of continuing with Koeman.



Like who? (Not being confrontational, just genuinely interested)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheTone on September 29, 2017, 04:05:20 AM
Marco Silva lids?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 29, 2017, 04:06:46 AM
I mean honestly could things have gone much worse with 150m spent
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 04:07:14 AM
Marco Silva lids?

I'd rather take a chance on him, at least he's a winner, better than this useless negative cunt
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 29, 2017, 04:07:57 AM
Up to now I've thpught any talk of sacking was premature but tonight, against some fucking 2 bob nobodies, at home, we've started with 2 defensive midfielders, a sack full of non-creative 'number 10s' and zero pace or width.

Fucking abysmal.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on September 29, 2017, 04:08:03 AM
Give Unsworth a short period of time to see if he can rise to the challenge.

Considering the arguments that people have against him then if he is out of his depth, it should become obvious quite quickly.

We aren't attractive enough to get Tuchel or Ancellotti and all the other managers seem undesirable at the moment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 29, 2017, 04:08:18 AM
no no no not Unsworth
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 29, 2017, 04:08:25 AM
No chance of Marco Silva.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheTone on September 29, 2017, 04:08:31 AM
I'd rather take a chance on him, at least he's a winner, better than this useless negative cunt

although Everton could fuck up his great home record
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 04:10:18 AM
although Everton could fuck up his great home record

I'd take the chance, Koeman is a twat of a manager really
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: john e on September 29, 2017, 04:10:24 AM
OH Wow, that was bad  ::)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 29, 2017, 04:11:03 AM
They dont have the ambition though do they.

More like misguided ambition.

Spending £45m on a player is ambitious, even with terrible market inflation. But the player was Sigurdsson and, even though I like a lot of what he brings, he was never going to be worth it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: april on September 29, 2017, 04:12:59 AM
They say no one player is bigger than the club, but surely that goes for a manager too? He does seem to alienate certain players, (Barkley being the most reported), only reintroduced Niasse under instruction from the board, isn't getting anywhere near the best from his players individually nor as a unit, and is losing the confidence of the fans with each passing game. There is obviously something rotten behind the scenes - this isn't a united team, and if the manager can't make them so, then surely he has to go. I'm not a fan of early season dismissals, but after such financial outlay and continued rumours of unrest, it has to be a serious consideration.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 04:14:28 AM
Sadly he ain't going anywhere

It will take us to be out of the el, Coke cup, fa cup and bottom half before he is sacked imo

So first weekend in jan
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 29, 2017, 04:15:47 AM
The not good enough list: Williams, Colgate, klassen, Rooney, dcl,  sandro. All Ronald mcdonalds signings apart from colgate.

No team gets anywhere with a bunch of fuckdogs like that.

I called Williams a yard dog of a player...but I retract thats an insult to yard dogs. Hes so bad it makes my eyes bleed.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Azz on September 29, 2017, 04:16:20 AM
He should get sacked but he won't.

Those that make such a in the club have no ambition or desire.  And the man that does are more focused on trying to build a stadium.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: DanDan on September 29, 2017, 04:16:35 AM
He makes watching paint dry more exciting than us play these days! Especially first halves where we seem reluctant to even get into the opposition box
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 04:17:06 AM
Can we reset the poll?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Heisenberg on September 29, 2017, 04:18:02 AM
The not good enough list: Williams, Colgate, klassen, Rooney, dcl,  sandro. All Ronald mcdonalds signings apart from colgate.

No team gets anywhere with a bunch of fuckdogs like that.

I called Williams a yard dog of a player...but I retract thats an insult to yard dogs. Hes so bad it makes my eyes bleed.



Colgate is the shittest shout I've seen on here
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on September 29, 2017, 04:19:34 AM
Imagine he got sacked and Barkley signed a new contract
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Tinga on September 29, 2017, 04:21:20 AM
Has he lost the players then? They're not a bad group of players at all and should be able to push this type of team aside with ease. I hate football at times because we're always left in the dark about everything.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 29, 2017, 04:21:48 AM
The only thing worse than keeping him around would be keeping him around and letting him spend a ton of money on more old guys in January.

Giroud is good and all but does anyone really think this team is an Olivier Giroud away from competence?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 29, 2017, 04:21:59 AM
We'll find ourselves out of Europe, out the league cup and 12 in the league by the time December comes if we stick by Koeman

If the board has the ambition it says it has then we'll sack him now and address the issue before the season is over.
The same board that had a shocking first summer transfer window and utterly failed to deliver on the biggest priority, the last one?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 04:23:52 AM
Who the actual fuck is colgate
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Tinga on September 29, 2017, 04:24:36 AM


The same board that had a shocking first summer transfer window and utterly failed to deliver on the biggest priority, the last one?

but but the stadium and he bought a liver building lads!.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 04:26:04 AM

but but the stadium and he bought a liver building lads!.

😂 Ancelotti will come, we're allegedly building a stadium on the docks and he can have an office in the Liver building
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 04:26:11 AM
Imagine he got sacked and Barkley signed a new contract

I called that about a fortnight ago. Poetic justice I think you might call it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Heisenberg on September 29, 2017, 04:28:13 AM
The not good enough list: Williams, Colgate, klassen, Rooney, dcl,  sandro. All Ronald mcdonalds signings apart from colgate.

No team gets anywhere with a bunch of fuckdogs like that.

I called Williams a yard dog of a player...but I retract thats an insult to yard dogs. Hes so bad it makes my eyes bleed.



Keep posting it in all the threads. Someone will laugh at colgate eventually. Or maybe not ...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: arteta4spain on September 29, 2017, 04:29:18 AM
They say no one player is bigger than the club, but surely that goes for a manager too? He does seem to alienate certain players, (Barkley being the most reported), only reintroduced Niasse under instruction from the board, isn't getting anywhere near the best from his players individually nor as a unit, and is losing the confidence of the fans with each passing game. There is obviously something rotten behind the scenes - this isn't a united team, and if the manager can't make them so, then surely he has to go. I'm not a fan of early season dismissals, but after such financial outlay and continued rumours of unrest, it has to be a serious consideration.
Did the board actually request that Niasse be back in the squad. Think this speaks volumes tbh. I think the board are monitoring him closely here and, I wouldn't say they're waiting to pull the trigger, but maybe they're loading it up.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 29, 2017, 04:30:41 AM
More like misguided ambition.

Spending £45m on a player is ambitious, even with terrible market inflation. But the player was Sigurdsson and, even though I like a lot of what he brings, he was never going to be worth it.

Horrible signing. Not a single 1 of us would have thought it a wise idea had it been suggested early in the window
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 29, 2017, 04:31:02 AM
I doubt very much the board had anything to do with Niasse being in the squad.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 04:31:55 AM
Horrible signing. Not a single 1 of us would have thought it a wise idea had it been suggested early in the window

The money should've been spent on a striker, I like Sigurdsson but he wasn't honestly what we needed
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 29, 2017, 04:32:09 AM
Who? (Seriously)

And don't put Ancelotti. Or Pardew... Or Fat Sam...

Why not Ancelotti? He's a proven top manager who out of work and we now pay top managerial wages in the richest league in the world. There's even that German fella Tuchel.

There's plenty who are employed who'd come as well but given the time constraints of extracting them from other clubs and where we might be by then an unemployed manager is probably the best option, if he's good at himself job obviously and they both are.

Like who? (Not being confrontational, just genuinely interested)
   

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Heisenberg on September 29, 2017, 04:32:53 AM
Keep posting it in all the threads. Someone will laugh at colgate eventually. Or maybe not ...

Okay I've got to admit. I just reopened the same thread. But I'd like to apologise for absolutely not'n
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluenuck on September 29, 2017, 04:34:13 AM
Why not Ancelotti?

Because he won't come here.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 04:34:49 AM
Why not Ancelotti? He's a proven top manager who out of work and we now pay top managerial wages in the richest league in the world. There's even that German fella Tuchel.

There's plenty who are employed who'd come as well but given the time constraints of extracting them from other clubs and where we might be by then an unemployed manager is probably the best option, if he's good at himself job obviously and they both are.
 

Ancelotti wouldn't touch us with a shitty stick, he's got his reputation to think of. Hes already rich. He's a world class manager why would he come to us? Our squad is over priced and shit.
Now wait for January when it's sell to buy
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 29, 2017, 04:35:03 AM
Because he won't come here.

Why not?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 29, 2017, 04:35:07 AM
Because he won't come here.

Not a chance.

Would go for Tuchel, turned West Ham down too...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 29, 2017, 04:36:37 AM
Ancelotti wouldn't touch us with a shitty stick, he's got his reputation to think of. Hes already rich. He's a world class manager why would he come to us? Our squad is over priced and shit.
Now wait for January when it's sell to buy

Wave enough money in front of him and he'll come.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 29, 2017, 04:37:06 AM
As much as I love the idea of Tuchel there's no way he's walking into this shit show.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 29, 2017, 04:38:07 AM
Keep posting it in all the threads. Someone will laugh at colgate eventually. Or maybe not ...
Trust me I'm not laughing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 04:39:01 AM
Wave enough money in front of him and he'll come.

No he won't, you're kidding yourself
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 29, 2017, 04:39:39 AM
His post match interview then was bizzare.

Talk of how the players are low on confidence and how they need to find said confidence to improve performances. He then went on to absolutely slate the players which is only going to make the confidence issue worse.

You need someone who can lift and motivate the players in times like this and he clearly isn't the man.

They've seen what's happened with Barkley and lookman, and are scared of making mistakes on the pitch.

He's knocked every bit of creativity and confidence out of those players
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 04:41:06 AM
His post match interview then was bizzare.

Talk of how the players are low on confidence and how they need to find said confidence to improve performances. He then went on to absolutely slate the players which is only going to make the confidence issue worse.

You need someone who can lift and motivate the players in times like this and he clearly isn't the man.

They've seen what's happened with Barkley and lookman, and are scared of making mistakes on the pitch.

He's knocked every bit of creativity and confidence out of those players

Guys a bellend, I'm sure that little interview will give the players confidence & get them fired up for the next game
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 04:41:15 AM
Sigurdsson isn't as bad a signing as he is showing you know. I just don't think he can play in the same side as Rooney.

Put him at No 10 with a proper striker ahead of him and tell him he's the main man and he'll be in double figures in goals and assists.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 29, 2017, 04:42:15 AM
I have it on good authority that Koeman has gone













































Home to bed.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 04:42:52 AM
His post match interview then was bizzare.

Talk of how the players are low on confidence and how they need to find said confidence to improve performances. He then went on to absolutely slate the players which is only going to make the confidence issue worse.

You need someone who can lift and motivate the players in times like this and he clearly isn't the man.

They've seen what's happened with Barkley and lookman, and are scared of making mistakes on the pitch.

He's knocked every bit of creativity and confidence out of those players

No man management skills. Every player is playing the safe ball for fear of being hooked.

I reckon he's he's lost them already.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 29, 2017, 04:43:20 AM
We'll probably be ok over the season but, he's making it very hard to get behind him right now.

Selection, team shape, and recruitment are all massive issues.

Never been so quick to sour on a manager. While I was never keen when we appointed Martinez, he in fairness bought himself some time and a certain amount of respect with that first season.

He can still turn it around, but if I was in charge with the way money has been spent I'd be very reticent to give him more. How can you really continue when you reach that sort of point with a manager though? I know he did want a striker in and it's hard to know whose failure that was but while Giroud would've helped he wouldn't have made such a massive difference.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 29, 2017, 04:43:33 AM
Sigurdsson isn't as bad a signing as he is showing you know. I just don't think he can't play in the same side as Rooney.

Put him at No 10 with a proper striker ahead of him and tell him he's the main man and he'll be in double figures in goals and assists.
Rooney is such a hinderence
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Heisenberg on September 29, 2017, 04:45:33 AM
Although It isn't great. If we'd have addressed the 3/4 key areas we so obviously needed too we wouldn't be having this conversation. He came out literally putting the board under pressure saying "this is what I need' and they didn't get him for it 
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 04:46:08 AM
We'll probably be ok over the season but, he's making it very hard to get behind him right now.

Selection, team shape, and recruitment are all massive issues.

Never been so quick to sour on a manager. While I was never keen when we appointed Martinez, he in fairness bought himself some time and a certain amount of respect with that first season.

He can still turn it around, but if I was in charge with the way money has been spent I'd be very reticent to give him more. How can you really continue when you reach that sort of point with a manager though? I know he did want a striker in and it's hard to know whose failure that was but while Giroud would've helped he wouldn't have made such a massive difference.

No we won't, have you been watching the games?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 29, 2017, 04:46:24 AM
We'll probably be ok over the season but, he's making it very hard to get behind him right now.

Selection, team shape, and recruitment are all massive issues.

Never been so quick to sour on a manager. While I was never keen when we appointed Martinez, he in fairness bought himself some time and a certain amount of respect with that first season.

He can still turn it around, but if I was in charge with the way money has been spent I'd be very reticent to give him more. How can you really continue when you reach that sort of point with a manager though? I know he did want a striker in and it's hard to know whose failure that was but while Giroud would've helped he wouldn't have made such a massive difference.
I wouldn't underestimate the difference a good target man can make to a poor team. Giroud plays tonight and we win I reckon.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 29, 2017, 04:47:59 AM
No man management skills. Every player is playing the safe ball for fear of being hooked.

I reckon he's he's lost them already.

Looks to me like he lost them quite a while ago, its pretty obvious that something has gone on, every player looks terrified
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 29, 2017, 04:48:01 AM
No we won't, have you been watching the games?

Depends on your definition of ok. I think we'll probably still be better than a lot of teams in the PL, albeit it won't be an easy season.

It's just not ambitious at all though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheTone on September 29, 2017, 04:48:12 AM
I wouldn't underestimate the difference a good target man can make to a poor team. Giroud plays tonight and we win I reckon.

A lot of us on here would have put away the DCL chance at the end
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 04:50:02 AM
Depends on your definition of ok. I think we'll probably still be better than a lot of teams in the PL, albeit it won't be an easy season.

It's just not ambitious at all though.

If you mean ok as in staying in the prem then yeah you're probably right, I think if Koeman stays we finish in the bottom half - comfortably
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 29, 2017, 04:50:16 AM
I wouldn't underestimate the difference a good target man can make to a poor team. Giroud plays tonight and we win I reckon.

Could well have done, I just don't think he'd have made much difference in progressing our football to a level we'd say have a sniff of winning this tournament. If we're serious about progressing we need more than just him is all I meant.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lazarou on September 29, 2017, 04:51:00 AM
Time to go. All he can do is reactive management. Ffs sake we are adapting our system at home to a team from Cyprus. In fact he has no system. The players look like they have had enough. Any player who shows form seems to end up on the bench. Clueless.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 04:51:52 AM
Although It isn't great. If we'd have addressed the 3/4 key areas we so obviously needed too we wouldn't be having this conversation. He came out literally putting the board under pressure saying "this is what I need' and they didn't get him for it 

Let's leave the transfer window talk behind us, it's gone. He's paid £6m/year and he still has a talented bunch of players to work with.
We are better than the performances and results are showing. 12th most expensive squad in world football, so let's not cry because we don't have the perfect squad.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 29, 2017, 04:53:09 AM
Could well have done, I just don't think he'd have made much difference in progressing our football to a level we'd say have a sniff of winning this tournament. If we're serious about progressing we need more than just him is all I meant.
Tbh we are miles away from winning it...we could see that from the off.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on September 29, 2017, 04:54:56 AM
We'll probably be ok over the season but, he's making it very hard to get behind him right now.

Selection, team shape, and recruitment are all massive issues.

Never been so quick to sour on a manager. While I was never keen when we appointed Martinez, he in fairness bought himself some time and a certain amount of respect with that first season.

He can still turn it around, but if I was in charge with the way money has been spent I'd be very reticent to give him more. How can you really continue when you reach that sort of point with a manager though? I know he did want a striker in and it's hard to know whose failure that was but while Giroud would've helped he wouldn't have made such a massive difference.

It really would serve us well to get rid now before we start slowly climbing the table and get knocked out of the cups without a whimper and waste more money in January. I just can't see the point of handing him money to buy a certain type of player that's practically extinct at all the leading teams to merely help us tread water in the top half of the league at best.

It all just feels like a massive waste of time with Koeman and there's an inevitability about how it all ends so I can't see the point prolonging it or wasting more money.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 29, 2017, 05:01:50 AM
Koeman & Martinez have some funny similarities:

1) Good 1st season, we make progress and they take credit.

2) They are called potential Barcelona managers by some.

3) They then sign some shite players.

4) The football becomes absolutely atrocious to watch.

5) Everyone wants to see the cunt get the chop.

6) Manage to fluke an international job (Step 6 for Koeman TBC).
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 29, 2017, 05:08:24 AM
Tuchel is not coming to Everton. let's remember where we are.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 05:09:11 AM
Tuchel is not coming to Everton. let's remember where we are.

Let's remember where he is.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on September 29, 2017, 05:10:33 AM
It really would serve us well to get rid now before we start slowly climbing the table and get knocked out of the cups without a whimper and waste more money in January. I just can't see the point of handing him money to buy a certain type of player that's practically extinct at all the leading teams to merely help us tread water in the top half of the league at best.

It all just feels like a massive waste of time with Koeman and there's an inevitability about how it all ends so I can't see the point prolonging it or wasting more money.

I can't see Bill or Moshiri wanting to sack him now, especially given the amount they invested in bringing Koeman here and given him by far the biggest transfer budget in the club's history. To sack him now would make them look very stupid and ruin their image in the media. Plus imagine what kind of payoff they would have to give Koeman for not doing his job properly.

But even if they do sack him, the next problem is finding the right manager who can actually work with the existing players we have and not order another radical overhaul of the squad in January or next summer.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 29, 2017, 05:10:35 AM
Tuchel is not coming to Everton. let's remember where we are.

I reckon we could defo get Tuchel in.

Managed Mainz and had a pretty underwhelming spell at Dortmund.

I'd be disappointed if we couldn't attract someone like that.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 29, 2017, 05:14:02 AM
Tuchel isn't some hollywood manager we've no hope of attracting.

Did alright with a nothing club, got a big job, fucked it, been signing on down the German Jobcentre Plus for 6 month.

If we want him but can't get him then I'd be amazed.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 29, 2017, 05:14:12 AM
Double post
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 29, 2017, 05:14:14 AM
I reckon we could defo get Tuchel in.

Managed Mainz and had a pretty underwhelming spell at Dortmund.

I'd be disappointed if we couldn't attract someone like that.

Chelsea apparently sent people to talk to him at the start of the season about them having first dibs on him if Conte goes.
There really is zero chance he would come to us. All the top clubs want him, we are way down the pecking order.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 29, 2017, 05:15:59 AM
All the top clubs want him, we are way down the pecking order.

They don't. They all have managers bar Munich
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 29, 2017, 05:16:35 AM
They don't. They all have managers bar Munich

Exactly
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 29, 2017, 05:16:58 AM
Chelsea apparently sent people to talk to him at the start of the season about them having first dibs on him if Conte goes.
There really is zero chance he would come to us. All the top clubs want him, we are way down the pecking order.

Well that's all just speculation.

He's unemployed and the prospect of managing in the premier league with a financially backed historic club will be tempting for him.

He's the level of manager we should be looking to attract and I don't see him moving to any of the elite clubs yet.

We'd be a perfect fit for him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on September 29, 2017, 05:17:38 AM
They don't. They all have managers bar Munich

You're kidding yourself if you think we have the slightest chance. He'll just wait till the end of the season and have some of the biggest clubs in the world as his options.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on September 29, 2017, 05:19:27 AM
I reckon we could defo get Tuchel in.

Managed Mainz and had a pretty underwhelming spell at Dortmund.

I'd be disappointed if we couldn't attract someone like that.

Plus we play a shit load of money to our manager too.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 05:19:56 AM
You're kidding yourself if you think we have the slightest chance. He'll just wait till the end of the season and have some of the biggest clubs in the world as his options.

Based on what?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 29, 2017, 05:23:23 AM
Your missing yourself if you think we have the slightest chance. He'll just wait till the end of the season and have some of the biggest clubs in the world as his options.

And they'd want him why? Dortmund didn't rate him enough to have him stay on clearly.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 29, 2017, 05:23:39 AM
Koeman's a decent coach, but a pretty average manager.

We've got internationals and midweek games pretty much up to the middle of November earliest.

It's not likely to get better before then if he hasn't got time on the training ground to coach his teams to do what he wants.

By then, if he doesn't work out how to put out a balanced team, 3 out of 4 competitions will be doomed.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 29, 2017, 05:36:28 AM
The problem here is that regardless of results if he's responsible for the signings of Morgan, Keane, Sigurdsson, rooney and klassen then how the hell can you hand him more money and how the hell can we progress if you don't hand the manager more money

If they are his signings then barring a miracle turnaround individually then he simply can't be trusted to make decisions on players
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluenuck on September 29, 2017, 05:37:25 AM
At least the problem isn't that hard to fix. Koeman just needs to actually want to do it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rhys on September 29, 2017, 06:15:21 AM
You're kidding yourself if you think we have the slightest chance. He'll just wait till the end of the season and have some of the biggest clubs in the world as his options.

Maybe, it's a more realistic shout than someone like ancelotti though. Don't forget koeman is top 10 highest paid managers in the world, gets more than Conte and simeone. Dortmund are paying bosz 40k a week and can't imagine tuchel was on any different so we pay koeman nearly 4 times that amount.

He may look for better options, but he is out of work and throwing 7m a year at him would certainly be the biggest paid offer he would get and that is how you can tempt someone like that. It would be hard to turn down that kind of money over potential jobs at Chelsea who likely keep conte and Bayern who could wait until they get nagelsmann and end up with nothing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 06:19:13 AM
Tbh I think this season is gone due to the window anyway, if you bring someone new in I think they'd have the same problems. I agree with a lot of what Koeman says about players not being brave enough, players not being settled, I don't think they know each other's patterns and preferences yet and it might take longer to click than we would have liked.

He's got probably the rest of the year to turn it around realistically, if by crimbo we are still struggling like this then the trigger will get pulled I think.

Personally still sort of backing him to turn it around, I just wish I didn't have to.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jamokachi on September 29, 2017, 07:44:04 AM
I'd be getting on the blower to Ancelotti's agent tonight in all honesty.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ramjam on September 29, 2017, 08:26:48 AM
So at what point will Barca be coming in to take Koeman off our hands. Imagine the pay off it would save us
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 29, 2017, 08:41:50 AM
So at what point will Barca be coming in to take Koeman off our hands. Imagine the pay off it would save us
We can fuckin dream...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluenuck on September 29, 2017, 10:00:22 AM
The ancelotti shouts are up there with the cavani shouts.

It's not happening.

We need to think differently than everyone else. We need to think progressively and get a coach in here who can take average to good players and push us forward because no top players, like cavani, are coming here.

Koeman isn't doing that by buying 28 year old PL proven players. But he does have a few pieces, if he plays them, that can change the way we play. He just needs to see it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Confucius on September 29, 2017, 10:43:43 AM
We somehow get Tuchel or Ancelotti and top players will come here
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue1948 on September 29, 2017, 11:27:31 AM
I love this site .The general consensus  changes with the wind .Now that he has said the players are afraid the "nutters are on the bandwagon" .He is still the same guy as last season .All this shit about however many no. 10's and the like ,they have 11 and we have 11 on the pitch and calling them what you like won't change that , it is up to the players once they are on the pitch .
He doesn't make them do bad passes ,he doesn't make the decisions that are the reason we are shit .The substitutes should be on from the start shout ,is childish that is exactly what they are for -to change the team !!
He chooses to rest some and gets slated .He chooses the kids everyone is championing and they play shit but he gets slated nevertheless .
 We can all see that what we really need is a real centre forward ,he knows and we know but sadly DCL is not good enough yet to carry the load . I too am not happy but this ranting serves no purpose other than pissing up the wall. What we need is to give him time .we all knew it was a hard start to the season ,what has changed that?
The new manager's being picked out the hat are just as silly ,one being put forward is unemployed made a shit job at a bigger team and yet still apparently would pass us up ! What the fuck.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 29, 2017, 12:39:01 PM
Quite a few never on the "love Koeman" bandwagon either.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 29, 2017, 12:56:44 PM
Although It isn't great. If we'd have addressed the 3/4 key areas we so obviously needed too we wouldn't be having this conversation. He came out literally putting the board under pressure saying "this is what I need' and they didn't get him for it
This is why I’ll give him time. Said earlier - with a senior striker playing, we would’ve scored at least another 5 goals this season. Goals change games. Lukaku takes Rooney’s chance against Utd, and takes DCLs awful misses. Not saying we’d be playing great football but we’d be getting better results.

The board and Walsh are to blame for most of this shambles. They’re the ones who failed to deliver for two summers running. Unbalanced squad which isn’t the mangers fault...the manager is essentially the head coach. Ancelotti wouldn’t touch us as he’d just look at our record since the takeover and realise we’re just fucking wannabes.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 29, 2017, 12:57:46 PM
Thought Sig showed glimpses of what he can do in a more central role in the second half yesterday.

People writing him off based off the first few games of this season, given his track record, are idiots.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 29, 2017, 01:05:32 PM
Let's not forget, Moyes managed several successful seasons without anyone decent up front.

Obviously in an ideal world we would have replaced Lukaku with somone of similar quality, but with Rooney, Sandro, Vlasic, Niasse and DCL to choose from, it doesn't have to mean our season is a write off.

It'll take time though for Koeman and the players to figure out the right tactics given the squad we have and unfortunately fans these days aren't in the business of giving anyone time.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 29, 2017, 01:20:44 PM
How much time do you need to show progress or beginnings of a direction and system, how long does it take to stitch a chickens head on.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 29, 2017, 01:39:11 PM
Moshiri should get on the blower to Ancelotti, sell the club to him, its well worth asking, he will almost certainly say no thanks but if you don't ask you dont get
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 29, 2017, 01:43:20 PM
How much time do you need to show progress or beginnings of a direction and system.

Good question. Honestly if we look at the history of clubs like Spurs when they've massively overhauled their squad after losing their star player, then unfortunately we shouldn't expect much at all from the first half of this season, maybe all of it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Waltzer on September 29, 2017, 02:01:07 PM
We somehow get Tuchel or Ancelotti and top players will come here

No they wont cause our incompetent board wouldnt be able to sign them.
All of the blame being placed on Koeman is so short sighted in my opinion, yes there are things we could do better and he has to take the blame to a certain extent but if I compare his situation to mine at work, where I predominantly work on a PC, it would be like my boss coming in and saying 'you did well last year but this year we expect better and so does the rest of the organisation, oh and by the way we've removed your keyboard, you might get one back half way through the year but it the meantime we'll supply you with 4 mice so crack on' it just isnt going to work.
Undoubtedly Koeman has a say in transfers but hes also made it crystal clear this isnt his domain and the board and Walsh need to take much more of the criticism for this current fiasco than they are

Thats said if either of above wanted the job id be happy to trade!! :)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Cassius on September 29, 2017, 02:08:06 PM
No they wont cause our incompetent board wouldnt be able to sign them.
All of the blame being placed on Koeman is so short sighted in my opinion, yes there are things we could do better and he has to take the blame to a certain extent but if I compare his situation to mine at work, where I predominantly work on a PC, it would be like my boss coming in and saying 'you did well last year but this year we expect better and so does the rest of the organisation, oh and by the way we've removed your keyboard, you might get one back half way through the year but it the meantime we'll supply you with 4 mice so crack on' it just isnt going to work.
Undoubtedly Koeman has a say in transfers but hes also made it crystal clear this isnt his domain and the board and Walsh need to take much more of the criticism for this current fiasco than they are

Thats said if either of above wanted the job id be happy to trade!! :)

The difference being that you would use your on screen keyboard with your mouse to get the job done as best you can. Whereas Koeman has thrown away the monitor and is using two of the four mice.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 29, 2017, 02:36:05 PM
The atmosphere at Goodison is near enough as bad as it was under Martinez, God help Koeman if Burnley get an early goal on Sunday, it will be toxic
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 29, 2017, 02:48:12 PM
Stick it out until 2019

His contract will be up and so will Marco Silva's
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: christiffa25 on September 29, 2017, 03:09:29 PM
Koeman plays a shite style of football. Simple!

He's not helped by not having a top striker sure. But 90% of teams don't have one. And they don't look as piss poor as us. The 3 behind the striker are looking more of a problem to me. All the same players shoe horned in.

We had a better player in Barkley than the 3 players he's signed to replace him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 29, 2017, 03:37:19 PM
Koeman plays a shite style of football. Simple!

He's not helped by not having a top striker sure. But 90% of teams don't have one. And they don't look as piss poor as us. The 3 behind the striker are looking more of a problem to me. All the same players shoe horned in.

We had a better player in Barkley than the 3 players he's signed to replace him.

I would think a different Manager could convince Barkley to sign .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 03:39:42 PM
It was worse under Martinez, wasn't it?

Seems like a lot of blues have made their minds up to me. Think Sunday will be a brutal atmosphere.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 03:40:02 PM
There's no way that a better manager wouldn't get more of a tune out of these players, even with an unbalanced squad.

Vlasic, Lookman and even Mirallas can all play wide, so we could start with a balanced team if Koeman wanted to, but he chooses not to.

There's no reaction from the players after all these bad performances. We're not coming out and reacting, which suggests to me that Koeman isn't getting any sort of message across.

I'd go all out for a Tuchel or Ancelotti, and if that didn't work out, I'd give it to Unsworth for now. Lots of clubs promote a talented youth manager from within. It's not unreasonable or unheard of at all.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 29, 2017, 03:43:01 PM
I love this site .The general consensus  changes with the wind .Now that he has said the players are afraid the "nutters are on the bandwagon" .He is still the same guy as last season .All this shit about however many no. 10's and the like ,they have 11 and we have 11 on the pitch and calling them what you like won't change that , it is up to the players once they are on the pitch .
He doesn't make them do bad passes ,he doesn't make the decisions that are the reason we are shit .The substitutes should be on from the start shout ,is childish that is exactly what they are for -to change the team !!
He chooses to rest some and gets slated .He chooses the kids everyone is championing and they play shit but he gets slated nevertheless .
 We can all see that what we really need is a real centre forward ,he knows and we know but sadly DCL is not good enough yet to carry the load . I too am not happy but this ranting serves no purpose other than pissing up the wall. What we need is to give him time .we all knew it was a hard start to the season ,what has changed that?
The new manager's being picked out the hat are just as silly ,one being put forward is unemployed made a shit job at a bigger team and yet still apparently would pass us up ! What the fuck.

You sound abit like I did when I was defending R------ M------- a few seasons back . But last season is being viewed as a success with someone elses team and this season looks worse with his team . He is a supposed top coach yet we can't even start the game with a system . Still all will be fine when we get The Titi Cammara like Bolasie back . I thought all would be fine once we got the hang of defending corners but the opposition seemed to have made that pointless by simply passing it through the gaps in General Koemans set up .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Captain Sarcasm on September 29, 2017, 03:43:30 PM
Am I the only one who weeks ago said we should give him time but now is starting to think "I'm not so sure"?

The fact we didn't play with any width or pace from the word 'go' last night, the farce over Niasse and his continued selection of Williams make me seriously question his judgement.

The Burnley game is massive and only a change in the set-up of the team and tactics will make me give him more time.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 29, 2017, 03:46:30 PM
Koeman plays a shite style of football. Simple!

He's not helped by not having a top striker sure. But 90% of teams don't have one. And they don't look as piss poor as us. The 3 behind the striker are looking more of a problem to me. All the same players shoe horned in.

We had a better player in Barkley than the 3 players he's signed to replace him.

I would think a different Manager could convince Barkley to sign .
It was worse under Martinez, wasn't it?

Seems like a lot of blues have made their minds up to me. Think Sunday will be a brutal atmosphere.

I am not sure it was worse . There was something satisfying about throwing away leads every week . It was exciting and rarely do you see fans screaming abuse ( though some were )when we win 6-3 .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 29, 2017, 03:57:33 PM
Rumours that Ancelloti wants to move back to Premier League and West Ham potentially go for him. Fuck sake Everton, sack Koeman and get on the phone.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: nwatson on September 29, 2017, 03:58:50 PM
After last night I just wish the club would hurry up and sack him, giving someone new a few weeks to organise a proper system with some width before the next rounds of European games.
It won't happen though as just like with Martinez the board will let him stumble along picking up the odd scrambled win or draw in the league while dropping out of each cup competition.
By February we will be out of all competitions, sitting mid table in the league with nothing left to play for and pointless paying him off to get a replacement.
If it's going to be done it needs to be now while we still have things to play for.
Any sort of result on Sunday buys this clampete a few more games, which is a few to many.

BUT here's the thing that puzzles me about Koeman and his system. Last season before a ball was kicked he had the excuses rolled out. Mainly the Martinez regime was a shambles leaving him with a bunch of unfit players and an unbalanced squad. These excuses bought him a season of some terrible football at times as the players weren't fit enough to play his pressing game for a full match, and he hadn't got the players he needed.
SO wtf has happened to his pressing style now as I certainly haven't seen much off it this season. We play at a pedestrian pace which allows teams to press us. Our squad isn't unbalanced now as we have players to play with width but he doesn't use them.
Koeman is a bullshit artist. He blagged his way thru last season rolling out excuse after excuse on Martinez, and this season he rolled out the board not getting a target man.
Just get rid. At this stage it doesn't matter who comes in, as they would do a better job and pick a more effective team
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 04:05:58 PM
No way any of the 'Top 6' would tolerate this continued ineptitude (maybe apart from Arsenal but they've lost the plot a bit). Sometimes the braver, bolder, more progressive decision is to cut your losses, acknowledge that it hasn't worked and to change it while you still have something left to play for.

Let's see a demonstration of this ambition please.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 04:06:48 PM
Rumours that Ancelloti wants to move back to Premier League and West Ham potentially go for him. Fuck sake Everton, sack Koeman and get on the phone.
Ancellotti has a lot on links with London after his Chelsea stay..... sadly could only see him heading back there
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 29, 2017, 04:07:57 PM
Obviously Ancelloti has been a great manager but he's only worked with absolute top level players for at least the last decade.

Would he be willing to take on a job that can't promise him that? Would he even be able to do a job with a slightly-better-than-average squad?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 04:09:31 PM
Whats so annoying is how he played and set up at Soton would have made a lot more sense than this style he is trying here
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 04:13:21 PM
You could even offer the job to Ancelotti till the end of the season. No commitment either way then. He doesn't need the money or the hassle if it doesn't work out but if he turns it around and it touches him then we take it from there.

I know that might sound a bit fanciful but we need to start thinking a bit bigger now. If we're throwing £66m bids in for Costa it sounds like we're at least trying.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on September 29, 2017, 04:17:18 PM
Anchelotti would be an awful fit here.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: penguinofdoom1878 on September 29, 2017, 04:20:17 PM
Rumours that Ancelloti wants to move back to Premier League and West Ham potentially go for him. Fuck sake Everton, sack Koeman and get on the phone.

sound him out first then sack Koeman if hes interested, wouldnt cost much to buy him out.

However we are getting Ancelotti like we are singing van Dijk, Costa & Cavani
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: AllyBlue14 on September 29, 2017, 04:21:39 PM
I'm not really into sacking people 8 weeks into a season, but the concern is that there are obvious answers to our problems and Koeman continually chooses to ignore them. Either that or he can't see them, which is worse still.

Obviously we're missing a player or 2 in key areas and waiting for a couple of others to bed in properly. But he's turned us into the football equivalent of a 2 inch penis - zero penetration.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 04:23:43 PM
We look like he got the job yesterday morning. There's no collective pressing, no discernible patterns of play with the ball, we look chaotic in defence, we never have balance, we frequently play two DMs and still give oceans of space in front of our defence, he openly criticises the players that he's brought in with alarming regularity, he plays systems with wingbacks regularly and neglects that the wingbacks are the most important players in that system.

I'm not even sure what the case for the defence of Koeman is or would be anymore, if his managerial performance was on trial. A judge would throw the case out of court and would reprimand the defence lawyer for wasting the court's time.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on September 29, 2017, 04:35:13 PM
Glad to see the general consensus is Koemams shite ....nice to see we can all agree sometimes.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 05:32:11 PM
There's no way that a better manager wouldn't get more of a tune out of these players, even with an unbalanced squad.

Vlasic, Lookman and even Mirallas can all play wide, so we could start with a balanced team if Koeman wanted to, but he chooses not to.

There's no reaction from the players after all these bad performances. We're not coming out and reacting, which suggests to me that Koeman isn't getting any sort of message across.

I'd go all out for a Tuchel or Ancelotti, and if that didn't work out, I'd give it to Unsworth for now. Lots of clubs promote a talented youth manager from within. It's not unreasonable or unheard of at all.

Not convinced tbh
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 05:33:19 PM
Not convinced tbh

About Unsworth?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 29, 2017, 05:37:06 PM
Glad to see the vast majorities views on Koeman are changing..

If everyone can see it who attended the match, surely something is wrong. i know we aint all expert managers, but if the issues are obvious to the vast majority of people, you dont need 125k a week to see it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: dazfrancis on September 29, 2017, 05:39:43 PM
IF we were to sack him we might as well go the whole hog and make St Oumar of Niasse our manager.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 06:23:07 PM
No way any of the 'Top 6' would tolerate this continued ineptitude (maybe apart from Arsenal but they've lost the plot a bit). Sometimes the braver, bolder, more progressive decision is to cut your losses, acknowledge that it hasn't worked and to change it while you still have something left to play for.

Let's see a demonstration of this ambition please.

We're a million million miles away from top 6 though, we're playing a different game to them and have totally different goalposts.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 06:29:05 PM
We're a million million miles away from top 6 though, we're playing a different game to them and have totally different goalposts.

We are right now but I'm not sure we should be, given that Koeman has spent in excess of £220m in about 14-15 months. City, Utd and Chelsea are operating on a different level, agreed, but there's no reason we shouldn't be closer to the other 3, given their problems and resources.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 29, 2017, 06:48:45 PM
So sack Koeman and bring in either Ancellotti or Unsworth. Are we going to consider any other novices that are having a modicum of success at under 23 level or is it just between ex-Everton players and a bloke who can have his pick of most of the world's top clubs and won't be rushing any decisions anyway?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 29, 2017, 06:49:41 PM
Unsworth would get the job for the few days it took to get someone in but not beyond that. It would be ludicrous to put a man with zero experience into this mess. I am still not for sacking Koeman, not until we are near the bottom by December. Europa and the league cup (Chelsea reserves) are more or less gone, the league remains. Judge him on that.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Hawkandro on September 29, 2017, 06:57:41 PM
I would think a different Manager could convince Barkley to sign .

I think a different manager wouldn't have ostracised Ross in the first place.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 06:59:24 PM
So sack Koeman and bring in either Ancellotti or Unsworth. Are we going to consider any other novices that are having a modicum of success at under 23 level or is it just between ex-Everton players and a bloke who can have his pick of most of the world's top clubs and won't be rushing any decisions anyway?

Not sure I get your logic. Koeman only has a managerial career because of his achievements and reputation as a player. That's how he initially got a job, and that has carried him through for the most part, with the occasional bit of relative success sprinkled in.

Unsworth was an average player at best but has been managing and working with players and succeeding at his level. He understands the culture of our club, knows all our best young players inside out, appears to be a very good communicator and man manager, tries to play football.

He wouldn't be my no. 1 candidate but he certainly should be considered and I genuinely think that if we installed him tomorrow we'd have a better season than if we kept Koeman til the summer.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 07:04:09 PM
I do think even a manager like Sean Dyche for example would get more out of this side than Koeman. I'm obviously not advocating we go for him and it's not just because he looks like an assistant manager at Currys but he's just an example of a bloke who seems to do the simple things very well and manages to utilise what he has using a very common sense approach and his players seem to like him.
I just don't think Koeman is a very good manager of people and has quite a stubborn abrasive personality, which in any profession isn't going to endear you to many.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 29, 2017, 07:10:50 PM
Unsworth would get the job for the few days it took to get someone in but not beyond that. It would be ludicrous to put a man with zero experience into this mess. I am still not for sacking Koeman, not until we are near the bottom by December. Europa and the league cup (Chelsea reserves) are more or less gone, the league remains. Judge him on that.

lol, nice sarcasm, might as well waste the season. I think that was the plan when we spent all the money in the summer..
give Unsworth the fa cup and the second half of the season, watch the remarkable improvement with same set of players.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Hawkandro on September 29, 2017, 07:14:30 PM
Part of me thinks Unsworth could do a good job, especially if the club are as intent on blooding the youngsters as we claim to be.

Who better to blood them than the guy who has managed them for the past few years, and knows everything about them and how they would fit in to the team?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: hannu on September 29, 2017, 07:14:44 PM
ive been hearing a few things about koeman, dont know how true,

1 the players dont like him, when williams signed he only spoke to him once in 6 weeks, and is ment to be very arrogant

2 apparently when he turns up at finch farm (emphasis on when, will cover in a min) he comes in walks past everyone does not acknowledge anyone or say hello, he just walks straight to his office and shuts the door

3 apparently he hasnt been turning up to do any training with the players, Ferguson has been having to do all the coaching in his absence 
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 29, 2017, 07:18:28 PM
Sounds like Sir Alex Ferguson and he did OK, so don't worry about "what you hear" in whichever pub you heard it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: piggypop on September 29, 2017, 07:20:01 PM
This is why I'll give him time. Said earlier - with a senior striker playing, we would've scored at least another 5 goals this season. Goals change games. Lukaku takes Rooney's chance against Utd, and takes DCLs awful misses. Not saying we'd be playing great football but we'd be getting better results.

The board and Walsh are to blame for most of this shambles. They're the ones who failed to deliver for two summers running. Unbalanced squad which isn't the mangers fault...the manager is essentially the head coach. Ancelotti wouldn't touch us as he'd just look at our record since the takeover and realise we're just fucking wannabes.
I don't buy the argument that the transfer window is all the board/Walsh's fault. They seem to have got all of Koeman's main targets in except for the striker, even massively overpaying for Sigurdsson who Koeman was very clear that he wanted.

Koeman himself has said there was no point going for a lesser quality striker once the first 2 options he wanted weren't possible. We're not Real Madrid, so of course there's a big chance high quality players won't come. Therefore you need to go for someone who can "do a job" when you have a glaring hole in the squad. Even Andre Gray would have improved what we have now and was available.
It's negligence.

There was talk he didn't want to bring in anyone who wasn't an improvement on DCL. Well as promising as he is, there are a lot of better strikers in the Prem right now. And if he rates him so highly, why not play him?

I don't see koeman getting any better, or changing what he does due to a tactical rethink, so we should get rid before he causes more damage.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: hill135 on September 29, 2017, 07:21:07 PM
Wouldn't be averse to Unsworth myself
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 07:25:43 PM
We are right now but I'm not sure we should be, given that Koeman has spent in excess of £220m in about 14-15 months. City, Utd and Chelsea are operating on a different level, agreed, but there's no reason we shouldn't be closer to the other 3, given their problems and resources.

I disagree, we've spent a lot of money for one year - we've been consistently outspent in fees and wages for the better part of 20 years. You don't catch up with 5 players no matter how expensive they are.

Plus, if you take away the insane inflation of that transfer window, we're even further behind in our outlay.

Fact is, we spent a lot of money but we were still buying players from a totally different level that the top 6 operate at. we've bought players that should have helped push us further away from those below us, but most wouldn't get in the top 6, let alone the fact that most of the top 6 have options on the bench that would walk in to our team ahead of them. That doesn't mean we bought poorly, that's a different convo, I think we bought about the level of players we could feasibly attract.

I think we're another 2-3 years off cracking the top 6 regularly (not talking freak Moyes 4th or freak Martinez 5th I'm talking being up there) and I don't think it's unrealistic to say we want to overturn 20 years of being fucking dross with the odd decent window in between and it's going to take us 5 years to do it.

Do I think this season looks like we've headed in the right direction? Nah. But I think the money we've spent has given some of our fans the impression of our ambition that is sadly misguided, and it's leading to even less patience among blues.

I'm not happy, the style has been shit, I can't see what he's trying to do, I don't understand why he's persisting with who he's persisting with, but I'm willing to accept the idea that there are factors at play beyond it being the managers fault, and i feel idea that chopping off the limb will heal the systemic problem is an overly simplistic one.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 07:30:50 PM
ive been hearing a few things about koeman, dont know how true,

1 the players dont like him, when williams signed he only spoke to him once in 6 weeks, and is ment to be very arrogant

2 apparently when he turns up at finch farm (emphasis on when, will cover in a min) he comes in walks past everyone does not acknowledge anyone or say hello, he just walks straight to his office and shuts the door

3 apparently he hasnt been turning up to do any training with the players, Ferguson has been having to do all the coaching in his absence 

I had heard similar from a lad I know in Liverpool who is usually on the money. Of course it might just be the same Chinese whispers but if we were flying I'd be less inclined to believe it, the fact it looks like there's a disconnect all around the place at the minute leads me to give it a little more credence.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 07:30:56 PM
I disagree, we've spent a lot of money for one year - we've been consistently outspent in fees and wages for the better part of 20 years. You don't catch up with 5 players no matter how expensive they are.

Plus, if you take away the insane inflation of that transfer window, we're even further behind in our outlay.

Fact is, we spent a lot of money but we were still buying players from a totally different level that the top 6 operate at. we've bought players that should have helped push us further away from those below us, but most wouldn't get in the top 6, let alone the fact that most of the top 6 have options on the bench that would walk in to our team ahead of them. That doesn't mean we bought poorly, that's a different convo, I think we bought about the level of players we could feasibly attract.

I think we're another 2-3 years off cracking the top 6 regularly (not talking freak Moyes 4th or freak Martinez 5th I'm talking being up there) and I don't think it's unrealistic to say we want to overturn 20 years of being fucking dross with the odd decent window in between and it's going to take us 5 years to do it.




This is whats been pissing me off this year
Media cant talk about us without saying and they splashed 150m so should they be breaking the top 4?

Other clulbs have been spending 150m for the past 10yrs
We cant just catch them cos of one window, a window in where city and utd spent over 200m, Chelsea over 100, liveroppl about 100 etc etc
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 07:33:56 PM
We shouldn't be struggling as badly as we are though. We have comfortably the 7th best squad in the league and we're performing like a lower mid table side at best. We all knew it was a slow process to catch the top 6, what we didn't bank on was going backwards despite increasing the outlay on players and getting more things right off the pitch.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 07:35:22 PM
We shouldn't be struggling as badly as we are though. We have comfortably the 7th best squad in the league and we're performing like a lower mid table side at best. We all knew it was a slow process to catch the top 6, what we didn't bank on was going backwards despite increasing the outlay on players and getting more things right off the pitch.
Pts wise we have the same as we did against the teams we have played last year

However, we have been wank in getting them
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: hannu on September 29, 2017, 07:35:46 PM
Sounds like Sir Alex Ferguson and he did OK, so don't worry about "what you hear" in whichever pub you heard it.

i wasnt in a pub
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 07:41:20 PM
Pts wise we have the same as we did against the teams we have played last year

However, we have been wank in getting them

Fair point. It just appears we've not progressed and if anything have gone backwards since last season. We have two games a week for the foreseeable so he either turns it around quickly or we're in for a disappointing season after such high hopes in the summer.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Simon Paul on September 29, 2017, 07:46:02 PM
when asked if he could have done anything differently to change results he said "I don't know"

GET OUT
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 29, 2017, 07:46:04 PM
I do think even a manager like Sean Dyche for example would get more out of this side than Koeman. I'm obviously not advocating we go for him and it's not just because he looks like an assistant manager at Currys but he's just an example of a bloke who seems to do the simple things very well and manages to utilise what he has using a very common sense approach and his players seem to like him.
I just don't think Koeman is a very good manager of people and has quite a stubborn abrasive personality, which in any profession isn't going to endear you to many.


Dyche plays players in their correct position which is why the simple things appear simple . Try and make simple complicated by fucing about with the starting formation every week and Sean Dyche pretty soon becomes Ronald Koeman .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 07:51:01 PM
Fair point. It just appears we've not progressed and if anything have gone backwards since last season. We have two games a week for the foreseeable so he either turns it around quickly or we're in for a disappointing season after such high hopes in the summer.
Oh I totally agree with you, the football we are serving is dire, we have no style, no flow, nothing really
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 07:57:44 PM
We should bring in [blank], he got Europa with Southampton despite having to sell his best players year on year, then got Everton back in the top 7 after two shite years outside the top 10. Good pedigree in the game and has won trophies with...

Do any of you not see the flaws in the logic?

I don't believe what we're seeing right now is what Koeman intends. I don't believe he sets us up to be negative and frightened in possession and I think he is as disappointed as everyone else. I don't believe throwing ademola Lookman on will solve all our problems and I think it's unfair to judge the side until it's fully bedded in.

Huge upheaval, poor recruitment, sold out best striker in 30 years and failed to replace, new system with new players and bedding in 3-4 u23 players. He needs more time.

I am VERY unhappy with the season, but it's too soon to pull the trigger.

P.s the unsworth thing is pure shite and you make yourself look an idiot by posting it imho.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Hawkandro on September 29, 2017, 07:58:34 PM
If he has lost the players, you have to admit, that is fast fucking work. Half the team are his now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 08:21:03 PM
P.s the unsworth thing is pure shite and you make yourself look an idiot by posting it imho.

The 'h' needs to be taken out. Not much humility in that comment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: ally2 on September 29, 2017, 08:22:30 PM
I'm starting to really dislike our fans. All I can say for the moment is thank God most of you lot (hopefully) don't have any influence at the club. As shit as the lot that turned up last night and sat in silence waiting to be entertained. Absolutely spineless. Is this how people deal with adversity?  Is this modern life or the modern football fan?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 08:23:26 PM
The 'h' needs to be taken out. Not much humility in that comment.
Always thought the H stood for honest

Well you learn sommet new everyday
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 29, 2017, 08:25:29 PM
Tbh I think this season is gone due to the window anyway, if you bring someone new in I think they'd have the same problems. I agree with a lot of what Koeman says about players not being brave enough, players not being settled, I don't think they know each other's patterns and preferences yet and it might take longer to click than we would have liked.

He's got probably the rest of the year to turn it around realistically, if by crimbo we are still struggling like this then the trigger will get pulled I think.

Personally still sort of backing him to turn it around, I just wish I didn't have to.

Assuming Keane Sigurdsson Morgan rooney are his players are you happy for him to have another transfer window. He seems to like the overpriced safe bets who aren't quite good enough
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 08:26:59 PM
Always thought the H stood for honest

Well you learn sommet new everyday

Didn't think about that. Maybe you're right and it is 'honest', in which case I apologise.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 08:27:56 PM
Assuming Keane Sigurdsson Morgan rooney are his players are you happy for him to have another transfer window. He seems to like the overpriced safe bets who aren't quite good enough

There's nothing wrong with them players though, they're all just playing way under their potential at the moment. The key is unlocking the talent we have in the squad not keep buying more players.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 08:30:50 PM
The 'h' needs to be taken out. Not much humility in that comment.

Isn't it honest?

Edit: just seen the above.

Listen yeah I am sorry it was a bit of a wind up comment and I don't like saying stuff like that especially to posters I generally think of as level headed and articulate but I keep seeing it everywhere and it's winding me up so much for reasons explained elsewhere.

It's just pure fantasy I can't understand it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on September 29, 2017, 08:40:45 PM
Isn't it honest?

Edit: just seen the above.

Listen yeah I am sorry it was a bit of a wind up comment and I don't like saying stuff like that especially to posters I generally think of as level headed and articulate but I keep seeing it everywhere and it's winding me up so much for reasons explained elsewhere.

It's just pure fantasy I can't understand it.

Just learned from google it can be either, which I didn't know. Learnt summat there, as Jimmy says.

Anyway no worries. Maybe I've reached an 'anyone but Koeman' mentality too early, but I personally don't see why Unsworth couldn't work. Lots of clubs promote from within and in some famous cases it has worked (and not in others, admittedly).

I just don't see why it should be dismissed as absurd. He has achieved pretty much the maximum he could at his level (winning the title, and graduating numerous players into the first team). He's meeting and exceeding his targets.

If it was a company and the big manager was failing badly, and the sub-manager was doing great things at the level below, surely you would consider him as a possible candidate?

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 29, 2017, 08:40:58 PM
I am VERY unhappy with the season, but it's too soon to pull the trigger.
How long do you give him then, do you let him have another transfer window?

What does it take to tip you against him?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue1948 on September 29, 2017, 08:42:25 PM
How much time do you need to show progress or beginnings of a direction and system, how long does it take to stitch a chickens head on.
Not long but he still can't run!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 29, 2017, 08:43:06 PM
I don't buy the argument that the transfer window is all the board/Walsh's fault. They seem to have got all of Koeman's main targets in except for the striker, even massively overpaying for Sigurdsson who Koeman was very clear that he wanted.

Koeman himself has said there was no point going for a lesser quality striker once the first 2 options he wanted weren't possible. We're not Real Madrid, so of course there's a big chance high quality players won't come. Therefore you need to go for someone who can "do a job" when you have a glaring hole in the squad. Even Andre Gray would have improved what we have now and was available.
It's negligence.

There was talk he didn't want to bring in anyone who wasn't an improvement on DCL. Well as promising as he is, there are a lot of better strikers in the Prem right now. And if he rates him so highly, why not play him?

I don't see koeman getting any better, or changing what he does due to a tactical rethink, so we should get rid before he causes more damage.

I think the window is in fact koemans fault. I think he's very insistent on who he wants when it comes to big money first team player and utterly inflexiable on it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 29, 2017, 08:47:58 PM
There's nothing wrong with them players though, they're all just playing way under their potential at the moment. The key is unlocking the talent we have in the squad not keep buying more players.

Think there's plenty wrong with all of them to be honest. Think pretty much everyone we overpaid for and/or had infinitely more pressing matters

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 29, 2017, 08:48:58 PM
There's nothing wrong with them players though, they're all just playing way under their potential at the moment. The key is unlocking the talent we have in the squad not keep buying more players.

You could say he did better with the squad he inherited although that seemed to go from the best we had had in years to the worse once he started slagging the players and set up . To my mind he has set himself up for the fall because the Board backed his clear out , issue with Barkley , treatment of Niasse and head on pursuit of the missing link in Siggurdsson . Shame he wasn't as hell bent on getting a striker to replace Lukaku who he must have known was leaving midway through last season .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 08:54:08 PM
How long do you give him then, do you let him have another transfer window?

What does it take to tip you against him?

Knowing me we'll probably lose against Burnley and I'll be calling for his head.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 08:54:57 PM
There's still a lot to like about the squad we have. We've got arguably the most talented bunch of youngsters in the league and a lot of otherwise good players. Granted we're a bit light at the back and up top but it's not like it was under Moyes when we really scraping the barrel at times.
That squad is capable of 7th position and a proper run in the cups. Talk of top 6 would have been premature anyway even if we would have started better but the sum is currently less than the individual parts, that's the issue.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 29, 2017, 08:54:59 PM
I'm starting to really dislike our fans. All I can say for the moment is thank God most of you lot (hopefully) don't have any influence at the club. As shit as the lot that turned up last night and sat in silence waiting to be entertained. Absolutely spineless. Is this how people deal with adversity?  Is this modern life or the modern football fan?
It is really difficult when you travel and pay to watch the sort of abysmal display we saw last night. The crowd was completely silent, so bad was the first half. The hostility and anger came a bit later. Maybe it is our pedigree and expectation? Can Everton NSNO really descend to this level of performance? I disagree with you. My sympathy is entirely with myself, my son and the rest of the Evertonians who witnessed a disgraceful display, almost completely without merit, against a poor Cypriot team. The expressions on the faces of departing supporters after the game was over was sad to see.  Afraid to play on £30,000+ per week are they?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: mikey_blue on September 29, 2017, 08:58:17 PM
Ancelotti available? lol
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Waltzer on September 29, 2017, 08:59:15 PM
Ancelotti available? lol

Off to West Ham, if you believe some of the rumours (I dont!!)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: mikey_blue on September 29, 2017, 09:13:29 PM
Off to West Ham, if you believe some of the rumours (I dont!!)

Only a West Ham fan could believe that!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 09:16:19 PM
Re : unsworth

Must be managing one of the most well funded U23 squads in his league in what we all must agree is a bumper period for scouse products also.

He's done literally nothing, he needs to go and manage a team and achieve something before he's even considered.

I like the man I really do but I can't get my head around wanting to promote a relative amateur. How does that marry with the idea of wanting to act like a big club?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 29, 2017, 09:30:01 PM
@brap2 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) just to be clear all the likes don't mean I fancy you, I just agree with absolutely everything you're saying and no one else is saying it.

You sexy animal.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 29, 2017, 09:32:12 PM
Knowing me we'll probably lose against Burnley and I'll be calling for his head.
Hahaha

But seriously, I genuinely don't really speak to anybody saying give him more time. I'd love to understand the thought process, because I'm guessing these differences are based on different assumptions and approaching the season differently.

What did were your realistic expectations for this season once Lukaku had been sold? What were they once the transfer window closed? What are you realistically hoping Koeman delivers by the end of his 3 years here?

My opinions are obviously coloured by deciding that I'd have liked Koeman to be replaced after his first season in charge. Realistically I didn't see any hope of Everton finishing higher than 7th when the season started, I wanted us to get to the quarters onwards of domestic cups (excepting occasions like meeting Chelsea in an early round) and at a minimum get out of the Europa group stages.

By the end of Koeman's tenure, I'd like to see us able to compete with the top 6 and close the gap on them. Not necessarily finish in the top 6 - I don't think it's fair to set targets that rely heavily on other teams - but generally I want us to improve our goal difference year on year. If that's done by conceding fewer goals, fine. If it's done by scoring more goals, even better. If we've got ambitions of finishing higher, we better make damn sure that we're close to finishing with a GD of at least +20, we better make damn sure that we've got a plan in place that will see us score close to 70+ goals.

They are targets independent of another team's performance, they rely solely on Everton. I don't see any indication that we're going to get closer to a team or system capable of meeting them. In fairness though, I decided that before the summer barely began.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 09:33:27 PM
Re : unsworth

Must be managing one of the most well funded U23 squads in his league in what we all must agree is a bumper period for scouse products also.

He's done literally nothing, he needs to go and manage a team and achieve something before he's even considered.

I like the man I really do but I can't get my head around wanting to promote a relative amateur. How does that marry with the idea of wanting to act like a big club?

I think one of the reasons behind any Unsworth shout isn't out of choice but out of necessity. If we don't improve and it looks clear he has to go, and the decent managers out of work don't fancy us and other target managers in a job aren't willing to move so early in a season, then I think people are basically saying it would be worth a shot to give him the reigns for the foreseeable on a caretaker basis, or until the end of the season at a push if things take an upturn.

I don't think anyone is shouting for him to replace Koeman permanently but as a convenient option to steady the ship, who needs no time to settle, he might be on the radar of the board, bearing in mind how highly regarded he is.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue1948 on September 29, 2017, 09:45:19 PM
Part of me thinks Unsworth could do a good job, especially if the club are as intent on blooding the youngsters as we claim to be.

Who better to blood them than the guy who has managed them for the past few years, and knows everything about them and how they would fit in to the team?


Fitting into the team and being good enough are not the same .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue1948 on September 29, 2017, 09:46:43 PM
ive been hearing a few things about koeman, dont know how true,

1 the players dont like him, when williams signed he only spoke to him once in 6 weeks, and is ment to be very arrogant

2 apparently when he turns up at finch farm (emphasis on when, will cover in a min) he comes in walks past everyone does not acknowledge anyone or say hello, he just walks straight to his office and shuts the door

3 apparently he hasnt been turning up to do any training with the players, Ferguson has been having to do all the coaching in his absence 
And where did you hear this in K-kauppa ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue1948 on September 29, 2017, 09:49:22 PM
when asked if he could have done anything differently to change results he said "I don't know"

GET OUT
Unfair comment Simon ,it is obvious if he knew he would have done it !
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 09:53:47 PM
Unfair comment Simon ,it is obvious if he knew he would have done it !

Not really. He might think he's right and it's just a matter of time before he thinks it'll click.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue1948 on September 29, 2017, 09:58:56 PM
Not really. He might think he's right and it's just a matter of time before he thinks it'll click.
So what does that mean? If he knew he would do it .What you wrote is irrelevant because if he thinks he is right ,then that is what he has done !!!!
If you want to raise an argument then at least post something worth it .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 29, 2017, 10:01:29 PM
Koeman is shit & refuses to accept that his tactics aren't working.
Get rid of him.
Even a manager who will just use players in their correct positions and operate without an ego will surely be an improvement on what's going on right now
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluenuck on September 29, 2017, 10:03:19 PM
We should bring in [blank], he got Europa with Southampton despite having to sell his best players year on year, then got Everton back in the top 7 after two shite years outside the top 10. Good pedigree in the game and has won trophies with...

Do any of you not see the flaws in the logic?

I don't believe what we're seeing right now is what Koeman intends. I don't believe he sets us up to be negative and frightened in possession and I think he is as disappointed as everyone else. I don't believe throwing ademola Lookman on will solve all our problems and I think it's unfair to judge the side until it's fully bedded in.

Huge upheaval, poor recruitment, sold out best striker in 30 years and failed to replace, new system with new players and bedding in 3-4 u23 players. He needs more time.

I am VERY unhappy with the season, but it's too soon to pull the trigger.

P.s the unsworth thing is pure shite and you make yourself look an idiot by posting it imho.

Not good enough or past it: Williams. Jags. Mori. Baines. Rooney. Martina.

Young, learning, still making mistakes: Davies. Holgate. Lookman. Dcl. Kenny. Even keane.

Adapting to a whole new league: Sandro. Klassen.

He needs some time.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 10:05:23 PM
So what does that mean? If he knew he would do it .What you wrote is irrelevant because if he thinks he is right ,then that is what he has done !!!!
If you want to raise an argument then at least post something worth it .

You either don't read or it doesn't sink in. He might not think his system and formation are the issue, he might just think the players are the problem. In which case it would explain his insistence on flogging the same narrow system but rotating the players. Until he's desperate then he changes things.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 10:16:01 PM
Hahaha

But seriously, I genuinely don't really speak to anybody saying give him more time. I'd love to understand the thought process, because I'm guessing these differences are based on different assumptions and approaching the season differently.

What did were your realistic expectations for this season once Lukaku had been sold? What were they once the transfer window closed? What are you realistically hoping Koeman delivers by the end of his 3 years here?

My opinions are obviously coloured by deciding that I'd have liked Koeman to be replaced after his first season in charge. Realistically I didn't see any hope of Everton finishing higher than 7th when the season started, I wanted us to get to the quarters onwards of domestic cups (excepting occasions like meeting Chelsea in an early round) and at a minimum get out of the Europa group stages.

By the end of Koeman's tenure, I'd like to see us able to compete with the top 6 and close the gap on them. Not necessarily finish in the top 6 - I don't think it's fair to set targets that rely heavily on other teams - but generally I want us to improve our goal difference year on year. If that's done by conceding fewer goals, fine. If it's done by scoring more goals, even better. If we've got ambitions of finishing higher, we better make damn sure that we're close to finishing with a GD of at least +20, we better make damn sure that we've got a plan in place that will see us score close to 70+ goals.

They are targets independent of another team's performance, they rely solely on Everton. I don't see any indication that we're going to get closer to a team or system capable of meeting them. In fairness though, I decided that before the summer barely began.

To be fair I feel like I've outlined them quite clearly above.

I thought we undersold and overbought. I thought the recruitment was poor and as I've said before I'd like a smarter man than me to look at the historical results of sides who've sold their best striker for thirty years, sides who've had wholesale changes and sides who have been trying to take a step up in level with such fierce competition. A cursory glance at milans season so far doesn't dissuade me that these are all factors.

I thought at the start of the year that 7th was both our minimum and maximum result. Anything less is failure, anything higher is unrealistic.

I think it takes longer than one window of over inflated spunking on mid table sides best players to turn around thirty years of penny pinching.

I know the lads at EBM have assured us all that net spend is meaningless but I'm not entirely convinced. Plus if we do look at wage amorticisation or whatever then I'm certain you'll see we are still light years away.

Unfortunately we've then had the problem of not replacing our best striker since we last won the league bar none hands down, having to change system anongst a mix of brand new players and youth players and a horrendous fixture list that has hindered them getting their groove and confidence together.

I said lose 2 out of the 4 home games and he'll be under genuine threat and I think past that if we're still struggling at crimbo he'll be under genuine threat.

I'm not particularly attached to Koeman and I do not think keeping him guarantees success but I think the argument above reads to me that time may breed confidence and understanding among the players which may heal quicker than ANOTHER upheaval in the form of bringing in another manager.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 29, 2017, 10:21:12 PM
ive been hearing a few things about koeman, dont know how true,

1 the players dont like him, when williams signed he only spoke to him once in 6 weeks, and is ment to be very arrogant

2 apparently when he turns up at finch farm (emphasis on when, will cover in a min) he comes in walks past everyone does not acknowledge anyone or say hello, he just walks straight to his office and shuts the door

3 apparently he hasnt been turning up to do any training with the players, Ferguson has been having to do all the coaching in his absence 

Can't imagine this being true but if it is not only sack him but fucking knock him out an all.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on September 29, 2017, 10:31:27 PM
You either don't read or it doesn't sink in. He might not think his system and formation are the issue, he might just think the players are the problem. In which case it would explain his insistence on flogging the same narrow system but rotating the players. Until he's desperate then he changes things.

Which seems to be exactly what he is doing . But if he has nothing to do with signing players how does he fix it without accepting it is him that is wrong . We all know how easy it is for players to down tools .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Juanito on September 29, 2017, 10:41:53 PM
He had two good seasons at Southampton and that was it. We are EVERTON and pay our manager 6 million a year now, that was probably double what Tuchel and Ancelotti  where on. Be as ruthless as Ron and get rid of him for a big gun.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 29, 2017, 10:44:36 PM
He had two good seasons at Southampton and that was it. We are EVERTON and pay our manager 6 million a year now, that was probably double what Tuchel and Ancelotti  where on. Be as ruthless as Ron and get rid of him for a big gun.

Ancelotti was probably on double that at Bayern to be honest. We would comfortably be Tuchel's biggest payday though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 29, 2017, 11:07:11 PM
All koeman needs is 200 million more, plus Coleman and Bolassie.

that to me is stupid, He will persist with the same narrow formation, we will continue to have the same issues. but by the time some realize it will be game over for this season.. then they will say we need more time..

*shakes head*
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue1948 on September 29, 2017, 11:08:42 PM
Just a shot in the dark here as I never have been on one of their sites ,this seems to me how it all unfolded at Chelsea and City when they came into a few bob .Get rid ,get rid and get rid .Buy ,buy and buy .For that I am out .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 11:11:43 PM
All koeman needs is 200 million more, plus Coleman and Bolassie.

that to me is stupid, He will persist with the same narrow formation, we will continue to have the same issues. but by the time some realize it will be game over for this season.. then they will say we need more time..

*shakes head*
No way we will be narrow with bolaisie and Coleman
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluenuck on September 29, 2017, 11:30:32 PM
No way we will be narrow with bolaisie and Coleman

We won't be as narrow, but we will still be to narrow for this league. I'm not believing those two coming back is going to fix everything. I hope no-one is...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 29, 2017, 11:34:15 PM
We won't be as narrow, but we will still be to narrow for this league. I'm not believing those two coming back is going to fix everything. I hope no-one is...

Lots are tho, the posts just keep on coming.. these posters even think that they will return to the same level they where before they got injured, i guess they dont think it will take them a few months if not longer to get back to a decent run of form.

Regardless of them coming back, we will still play with 2 holding midfielders and a false 9 anda couple of number 10s.

the same issues will persist. wish we can get to the end of the season already so more can see it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on September 29, 2017, 11:49:25 PM
Give Koeman more time to fashion something out of this group of players? Okay, fine.

But give Koeman more money to spend? He can get fucked if that's his only answer.

The squad is far from perfect but there's a competent eleven in there. If he really wants this job, he needs to work harder to find it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 29, 2017, 11:51:44 PM
the first minute and half of this, kills it.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 11:52:00 PM
We won't be as narrow, but we will still be to narrow for this league. I'm not believing those two coming back is going to fix everything. I hope no-one is...
No nor me
I'm not sure bolaisie is the answer at all but his stock has risen massively for not playing as is the Everton way.

However, in general he hugs the touchline, as does Coleman so at least one side would have width. Ffs the left hasn't had width since pienaars legs fell off
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 29, 2017, 11:52:46 PM
Lots are tho, the posts just keep on coming.. these posters even think that they will return to the same level they where before they got injured, i guess they dont think it will take them a few months if not longer to get back to a decent run of form.

Regardless of them coming back, we will still play with 2 holding midfielders and a false 9 anda couple of number 10s.

the same issues will persist. wish we can get to the end of the season already so more can see it.
People are allowed a different opinion to yours yano
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on September 30, 2017, 12:01:29 AM
I'd seriously be playing Bolasie wide left like he played at Palace. On the touchline, chalk on his boots, giving the width while Coleman does his overlapping thing on the right.

Problem is that is a couple of months away at least.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 30, 2017, 12:04:38 AM
People are allowed a different opinion to yours yano


indeed they are, i got no issues with that, im not the one calling them stupid, a crank or  saying this is how it is, and if you dont think this then your making yourself look like an idiot. said by a poster 3-4 pages back

disagree with what i say, discuss stuff.. i dont need to degrade or abuse people to make my views any more potent.

Maybe i should start belittling posters too, might as well go full Koeman. (Koeman does it to his players, rather than accept his own blindness)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 30, 2017, 12:11:01 AM

indeed they are, i got no issues with that, im not the one calling them stupid, a crank or  saying this is how it is, and if you dont think this then your making yourself look like an idiot. said by a poster 3-4 pages back

disagree with what i say, discuss stuff.. i dont need to degrade or abuse people to make my views any more potent.

Maybe i should start belittling posters too, might as well go full Koeman. (Koeman does it to his players, rather than accept his own blindness)
I'm not degrading you, calling you a crank or whatever.
You have your opinion and you trott it out across a few threads.
It's hard to discuss owt with you as your very dismissive about other people's opinions if they differ from yours.



Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on September 30, 2017, 12:17:57 AM
Is anyone actually looking forwards to the game on Sunday, honestly? Koeman needs a huge performance from every player to appease some the discontent from us fans, trouble is, I doubt the players are capable of it, theres no team spirit, no leaders, no confidence, now its the managers job to sort that, if he can't then its time to go
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on September 30, 2017, 12:23:56 AM
Is anyone actually looking forwards to the game on Sunday, honestly? Koeman needs a huge performance from every player to appease some the discontent from us fans, trouble is, I doubt the players are capable of it, theres no team spirit, no leaders, no confidence, now its the managers job to sort that, if he can't then its time to go

I still am.  Sunday funday, Everton morning then a full day of NFL.  I will barely move, middle-aged man nirvana.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 30, 2017, 12:30:06 AM
I'm not degrading you, calling you a crank or whatever.
You have your opinion and you trott it out across a few threads.
It's hard to discuss owt with you as your very dismissive about other people's opinions if they differ from yours.


not supposed to come across like that, ill try and improve the way i convey them.

*edit, this is a forum. everyone trotts their opinions across a few threads.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 30, 2017, 12:48:47 AM
Right after sleeping on it and @ day of rational thinking I've come to the conclusion koeman is shit and needs to do the off ....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Thornton_19 on September 30, 2017, 12:52:37 AM
The thing I worry about the most is the lack of intensity in the side. Us starting games so slow is clearly a problem that's stems from management.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluenuck on September 30, 2017, 12:54:58 AM
The thing I worry about the most is the lack of intensity in the side. Us starting games so slow is clearly a problem that's stems from management.

We look like we did in the last 8-10 games under Martinez... It's worrying.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 30, 2017, 01:15:05 AM
People going on like Bolasie is the saviour and everything will be okay when he's back shows the absolute state of us right now
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Brownie20 on September 30, 2017, 01:15:35 AM
Re : unsworth

Must be managing one of the most well funded U23 squads in his league in what we all must agree is a bumper period for scouse products also.

He's done literally nothing, he needs to go and manage a team and achieve something before he's even considered.

I like the man I really do but I can't get my head around wanting to promote a relative amateur. How does that marry with the idea of wanting to act like a big club?

Said this in another thread. He needs to experience proper management
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 30, 2017, 01:20:18 AM
If Unsworth is your answer you need to sort yourself out
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 30, 2017, 01:49:10 AM
thread reset, same answer.. Davey Davey Moyesss. least he had a game plan when we played fucking shit, least if we where playing shit, the players where 110% committed, thus we stole lots of 1-0's.

if we cant play football, and the performances are wank, least instill some pride in your team, have a game plan, sneak 1-0s.

i guess we're supposed to be proud/happy that Koeman said that if we won 2-1 last night, it would be different, we where playing the equivalent of Sunderland. if not the Sunderland reserve team.

This was the easiest match of all the 4 home games in a row, the opposition knew we where fucking shit and attacked us from the first minute, oh Davey Moyes oh David Moyes...

Now we're shitting ourselves cos we have Burnley, and we're going to play the same negative formation that invites the opposition to attack us, wish to the god i dont believe in that we finally play 2 strikers and atleast 1 winger from the start.
drop Rooney and Klaassen, play our record signing! let him have some room to operate in.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bacon sarnie on September 30, 2017, 01:50:16 AM
Is he still here?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 30, 2017, 01:50:57 AM
I just reset the poll for this thread... Be interesting to see how the mood has changed.

For the record, final results were 70 for giving him to the end of the season, 37 each for Christmas and he's a great manager, 19 to fire him now and 13 for the big D.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 30, 2017, 02:10:57 AM
Ive gone from the wait until xmas too hooray its xmas fuck off
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: wepull on September 30, 2017, 02:14:22 AM
Well there are a lot of things which are going wrong with us currently but I genuinely believe we have a much better squad than last year. Our options from the bench even with so many players injured are far better than I can remember in the last 15 years and we can surely build from there.

My main issue with Koeman(i.e. ignoring our current slump) is that I genuinely don't remember us playing free flowing football under him. Even last year when we were winning matches, I never really saw any kind of attractiveness in our play. Martinez' first season and Moyes' last few seasons in parts we played really good football and were really pleasing to see. Even his Southampton side was a bit dull compared to that of Pochettino. I am not sure Koeman knows how to build a team which plays attractive football and when you are trying to enter the top 6, you would want your team to be actually have the ability to dismantle the opposite team with brilliant plays.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 30, 2017, 02:14:54 AM
Give Koeman more time to fashion something out of this group of players? Okay, fine.

But give Koeman more money to spend? He can get fucked if that's his only answer.

The squad is far from perfect but there's a competent eleven in there. If he really wants this job, he needs to work harder to find it.

What? Are you happy with this eleven are you?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Hawkandro on September 30, 2017, 02:27:24 AM
I would hope a team that consists of the former Wales captain, the former United and England captain, the former Burnley captain, two former Swansea captains and the former captain of Ajax would offer more fight and leadership. That is the most worrying aspect, that we are still as soft as we appeared under Martinez.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 30, 2017, 02:31:10 AM
I think the problem his is that he probably deserves til the end of the season. He probably has earned the right to fail before we sack him. However I'm not sure I'd trust him with another penny. So how can he continue
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 30, 2017, 02:32:08 AM
I think the problem his is that he probably deserves til the end of the season. He probably has earned the right to fail before we sack him. However I'm not sure I'd trust him with another penny. So how can he continue

Can I use cash out on our bet?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 30, 2017, 02:37:27 AM
End of the season is way to long for me, especially if get even worse/dont improve... and atm. there are no signs of improvement. Genuinly thought he may have learn his lessons in playing the players/formation that he has been doing..

hypothetically speaking.. end of season we do shit...Koeman leaves, gets new job,  Everton would be in turmoil... (not sure which division we would be in either.. only Palace have been poorer than us this season in the prem.)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 30, 2017, 02:47:25 AM
Can I use cash out on our bet?

Of course. You owe me 80 quid. When can I get it?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 30, 2017, 02:48:09 AM
To be fair I feel like I've outlined them quite clearly above.

I thought we undersold and overbought. I thought the recruitment was poor and as I've said before I'd like a smarter man than me to look at the historical results of sides who've sold their best striker for thirty years, sides who've had wholesale changes and sides who have been trying to take a step up in level with such fierce competition. A cursory glance at milans season so far doesn't dissuade me that these are all factors.
That would be the Milan who have 12 points from 6 games in the league and are top of their Europa group with a 5 point gap to 3rd, would it? :)

This caught my interest on a good day though, so I've spent a bit of time having a look at how your points total and goal difference varies with both number of players brought in and for those that lost an important attacker. The big caveat is that the search methodology used to collate examples would never pass peer review for publication.

There are also many limitations to this kind of analysis, which is why it's not really done. How do you rigorously account for confounding factors? Is the amount actually spent important when assessing this, probably but when heavy inflation is involved there's not a simple way to account for that. I've limited this to summer transfer windows and the first 6 games of the season through laziness; you'd hope that factors like fixture difficulty and transfers late in the transfer window will average out, but it's not easy to test for that. This data is over a number of different leagues, how does average league strength affect the results? How

All that said, here's a load of useless stats!

In this dataset, 23 teams signed 6 or more players (average of 8) in the transfer window, with 12 of these teams losing at least one star attacking player. The median finishing position the season before was 7th and after 6 games, the average number of points was 10.8 with a goal difference of +3.08. There was no relationship between number of players signed and points total, but there was a weak correlation (r = -0.37 for the maths nerds) between number of players signed and goal difference, with teams that signed more players having a slightly worse goal difference.

Here's a graph showing all that crap...

(https://image.ibb.co/kRQhMG/players_points.png)

So, we might be a bit below average, but 4 other teams have picked up 7 points or less in this small group of teams. Brendan Rodgers was sacked in 2014/15 with Liverpool on 7 points, going on to finish 6th; the next season Koeman's Southampton had 6 points from the first 6 games, but went on to finish 6th. Sevilla went on to finish 5th and 7th after their poor starts.

For wider context, after 6 games, the average team will have picked up 8.3 points after 6 games. So given the games we've played, we're not really that far behind in terms of points given our fixtures.

The other main question is how other teams have done after losing a key attacker. The average number of points for a team that's not established in the top 4 and has lost a key attacker (n=12) is 9.5 with a goal difference of around 2. There's a stronger relationship between goal difference and number of players signed (r = -0.56; -0.70 if you exclude us this season).

(https://image.ibb.co/dhO8BG/players_gd_bigloss.png)

As I said before, there are many limiting factors to any kind of analysis along these lines. Even then, it probably does indicate that we should be more considerate of the situation.

I can't really say it's changed my mind on Koeman though personally. It's more about the process than the results for me. :)

(Oh, and if anybody wants to look at the teams I included in all this, the spreadsheet is here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0ZHi3fNbv1TTUNPdk0zTmtMbWM)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: plumber on September 30, 2017, 02:59:56 AM
That would be the Milan who have 12 points from 6 games in the league and are top of their Europa group with a 5 point gap to 3rd, would it? :)

This caught my interest on a good day though, so I've spent a bit of time having a look at how your points total and goal difference varies with both number of players brought in and for those that lost an important attacker. The big caveat is that the search methodology used to collate examples would never pass peer review for publication.

There are also many limitations to this kind of analysis, which is why it's not really done. How do you rigorously account for confounding factors? Is the amount actually spent important when assessing this, probably but when heavy inflation is involved there's not a simple way to account for that. I've limited this to summer transfer windows and the first 6 games of the season through laziness; you'd hope that factors like fixture difficulty and transfers late in the transfer window will average out, but it's not easy to test for that. This data is over a number of different leagues, how does average league strength affect the results? How

All that said, here's a load of useless stats!

In this dataset, 23 teams signed 6 or more players (average of 8) in the transfer window, with 12 of these teams losing at least one star attacking player. The median finishing position the season before was 7th and after 6 games, the average number of points was 10.8 with a goal difference of +3.08. There was no relationship between number of players signed and points total, but there was a weak correlation (r = -0.37 for the maths nerds) between number of players signed and goal difference, with teams that signed more players having a slightly worse goal difference.

Here's a graph showing all that crap...

(https://image.ibb.co/kRQhMG/players_points.png)

So, we might be a bit below average, but 4 other teams have picked up 7 points or less in this small group of teams. Brendan Rodgers was sacked in 2014/15 with Liverpool on 7 points, going on to finish 6th; the next season Koeman's Southampton had 6 points from the first 6 games, but went on to finish 6th. Sevilla went on to finish 5th and 7th after their poor starts.

For wider context, after 6 games, the average team will have picked up 8.3 points after 6 games. So given the games we've played, we're not really that far behind in terms of points given our fixtures.

The other main question is how other teams have done after losing a key attacker. The average number of points for a team that's not established in the top 4 and has lost a key attacker (n=12) is 9.5 with a goal difference of around 2. There's a stronger relationship between goal difference and number of players signed (r = -0.56; -0.70 if you exclude us this season).

(https://image.ibb.co/dhO8BG/players_gd_bigloss.png)

As I said before, there are many limiting factors to any kind of analysis along these lines. Even then, it probably does indicate that we should be more considerate of the situation.

I can't really say it's changed my mind on Koeman though personally. It's more about the process than the results for me. :)

(Oh, and if anybody wants to look at the teams I included in all this, the spreadsheet is here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0ZHi3fNbv1TTUNPdk0zTmtMbWM)

I think you should try to find a girlfriend.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 30, 2017, 03:02:25 AM
I think you should try to find a girlfriend.
My wife's at work and I'm bored. :)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 30, 2017, 03:25:18 AM
Get 100% behind him and he'll become a great manager
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: phillyt on September 30, 2017, 03:29:41 AM
My wife's at work and I'm bored. :)
Should still probably find a girlfriend though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on September 30, 2017, 03:30:32 AM
Get 100% behind him and he'll become a great manager
Although i admire your positivity can i ask what you basing that on ? I think he has been backed and not been very good at all.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 30, 2017, 03:33:35 AM
Although i admire your positivity can i ask what you basing that on ? I think he has been backed and not been very good at all.

He's probably shaggin his wife and doesnt want him home anytime soon
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on September 30, 2017, 03:50:06 AM
*really long post*

Fair play to you for posting that, took a lot of effort I imagine and has been a topic I've been surprised not to find more information on in the past, so good to read.

How did you identify clubs who had signed 6+ players, or clubs who had lost a key striker - your own knowledge, or is there some kind of database you're working from?

Also, did you look at what happens when you sign 6+ players AND lose your key striker? I imagine the n size is too small for meaningful comparison. But that's the situation we're in.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 30, 2017, 03:51:17 AM
Smashed it there @van der Meyde (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=12) mate that's a beautiful bit of data viz.

I've had my 'he's got to go' moments definitely and as I say I'm not particularly attached. just not ready to give up just yet. Not sure on the reward either as I genuinely think this squad isn't anywhere near strong enough to do anything this year.

No goalscorer, no passer in midfield, no one to unlock the defence regularly, shaky back 4 who are all slow as fuck with no ball players and finally no pace in attack.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on September 30, 2017, 03:54:43 AM
Smashed it there @van der Meyde (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=12) mate that's a beautiful bit of data viz.

I've had my 'he's got to go' moments definitely and as I say I'm not particularly attached. just not ready to give up just yet. Not sure on the reward either as I genuinely think this squad isn't anywhere near strong enough to do anything this year.

No goalscorer, no passer in midfield, no one to unlock the defence regularly, shaky back 4 who are all slow as fuck with no ball players and finally no pace in attack.

I agree with most of that, particularly the last sentence.

The biggest worry, though, is that he has been in charge when most of them have been signed.

So, would you trust him with even more funds in January?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 30, 2017, 04:00:06 AM
I agree with most of that, particularly the last sentence.

The biggest worry, though, is that he has been in charge when most of them have been signed.

So, would you trust him with even more funds in January?

Not really sure if he did sign them?

Before Walsh was here we signed a markedly different type of player tbh.

That said, he's forcing them square pegs into them round holes at any bastard opportunity...so maybe he did?

When we say 'wouldn't trust him with money' - if that's the case then fuck him off asap because we need a shit load of players. Imagine sitting here in the summer and Moshiri is like 'oh hello Jim, yes we will not be trying to sign any players because we don't trust him'. I'd burn the gaff down tbh.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 30, 2017, 04:06:19 AM
Whoever has been responsible for the last 3 transfer windows in terms of first team players needs to go. It's been utterly inept.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 30, 2017, 04:09:05 AM
Of course. You owe me 80 quid. When can I get it?

Hahaha I'll let you out of it for £400 now if you want
I know you regret it already - forum bravado has you down £500 & I hope you'll honour it
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 30, 2017, 04:11:19 AM
Fair play to you for posting that, took a lot of effort I imagine and has been a topic I've been surprised not to find more information on in the past, so good to read.

How did you identify clubs who had signed 6+ players, or clubs who had lost a key striker - your own knowledge, or is there some kind of database you're working from?

Also, did you look at what happens when you sign 6+ players AND lose your key striker? I imagine the n size is too small for meaningful comparison. But that's the situation we're in.
It wasn't remotely thorough or sophisticated. They were identified based on whoever came to mind as either big transfers, big takeovers or big financial meltdowns really and then cross-referencing with Wikipedia for results and Transfermarkt for player incomings. It will no doubt make me look even sadder, but probably about 90 minutes of work all in. I'm a researcher by trade though, so it's not much effort. :)

With the exception of a couple of teams (United with Ronaldo, Arsenal with Adebayor and van Persie), the teams that lost a big player all brought in 6+ players so whatever the numbers I said up there are pretty much what they are.

I think what I'd take away from that mainly is the trend to having a poorer goal difference (which I think you can take as a surrogate for cohesion) if you sign more players. Small n, but I suspect that trend would hold up.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on September 30, 2017, 04:14:24 AM
Not really sure if he did sign them?

Before Walsh was here we signed a markedly different type of player tbh.

That said, he's forcing them square pegs into them round holes at any bastard opportunity...so maybe he did?

When we say 'wouldn't trust him with money' - if that's the case then fuck him off asap because we need a shit load of players. Imagine sitting here in the summer and Moshiri is like 'oh hello Jim, yes we will not be trying to sign any players because we don't trust him'. I'd burn the gaff down tbh.

Well exactly, like I said he has been in charge when most of them signed, so I would presume he was either the driving force or at least in agreement with Walsh on all of them.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 30, 2017, 04:16:12 AM
Well exactly, like I said he has been in charge when most of them signed, so I would presume he was either the driving force or at least in agreement with Walsh on all of them.

Unfortunately since Walsh has joined I'm afraid we can't infer the relationship imo.

Who does what and where does the buck stop? Not sure.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on September 30, 2017, 04:20:29 AM
Unfortunately since Walsh has joined I'm afraid we can't infer the relationship imo.

Who does what and where does the buck stop? Not sure.

I would imagine there is synergy.

Koeman doesn't strike me as the type who would want anyone signed for the first team without it being ran by him first.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 30, 2017, 04:20:56 AM
Unfortunately since Walsh has joined I'm afraid we can't infer the relationship imo.

Who does what and where does the buck stop? Not sure.
I think this is the crux of it. 

You would imagine though that as far as passers in midfield and strong defences go, he'd have a good gauge of Schneiderlin, Stekelenburg and Martina though?

It's probably a fair assumption, based on his history with them and comments he made about Schneiderlin, that those 3 were part-driven by him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 30, 2017, 04:40:41 AM
I think this is the crux of it. 

You would imagine though that as far as passers in midfield and strong defences go, he'd have a good gauge of Schneiderlin, Stekelenburg and Martina though?

It's probably a fair assumption, based on his history with them and comments he made about Schneiderlin, that those 3 were part-driven by him.

Still a lot of guessing and assuming going on but yes you would think so.

I do think Schneiderlin is probably our best passer from deep now Barry has gone. Although a few green shoots from Baines this week despite the result.

Jags, Williams, Keane all hoofers primarily.

Martina can cross a ball (which Holgate cannot) and was clearly a plug-the-gap signing while we get Coleman back and work out if Kenny is shit.

Stekelenburg did a similar job and quite well, has since been replaced.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on September 30, 2017, 05:03:03 AM
Havent a clueman has already stated this januarys transfer window will be handled by steve walsh as he needs to concentrate on the team
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 30, 2017, 05:13:36 AM
For example, it's too early for that kind of thing^

Just going to make the year extremely long.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on September 30, 2017, 05:16:48 AM
Still a lot of guessing and assuming going on but yes you would think so.
Honestly, who the fuck's to know. In Belfodil there's at least one case where Koeman's reportedly had doubts about a player and the deal has fell through.

There are whispers from multiple people that Koeman and Kenwright don't trust Walsh, with a worryingly opaque reference from a pretty reputable ITK on another site that Walsh "brings baggage" and "wouldn't have been appointed by somebody with knowledge of transfers".

Fuck knows, but it's definitely worrying.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 30, 2017, 06:11:07 AM
Lol at working out if Kenny is shit.. Shit enough to be one of Englands stars when they won the world cup.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on September 30, 2017, 06:18:16 AM
Honestly, who the fuck's to know. In Belfodil there's at least one case where Koeman's reportedly had doubts about a player and the deal has fell through.

There are whispers from multiple people that Koeman and Kenwright don't trust Walsh, with a worryingly opaque reference from a pretty reputable ITK on another site that Walsh "brings baggage" and "wouldn't have been appointed by somebody with knowledge of transfers".

Fuck knows, but it's definitely worrying.

I wonder what they mean by "brings baggage"?

Was he previously a bounty hunter, I wonder? 🤔
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 30, 2017, 06:18:18 AM
Lol at working out if Kenny is shit.. Shit enough to be one of Englands stars when they won the world cup.

I'm not saying he's shit, I am however heavily suggesting how much of a risk it would have been to go into a season based on what a 20 year old had done at youth level. Negligent in fact.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on September 30, 2017, 06:21:14 AM
Honestly, who the fuck's to know. In Belfodil there's at least one case where Koeman's reportedly had doubts about a player and the deal has fell through.

There are whispers from multiple people that Koeman and Kenwright don't trust Walsh, with a worryingly opaque reference from a pretty reputable ITK on another site that Walsh "brings baggage" and "wouldn't have been appointed by somebody with knowledge of transfers".

Fuck knows, but it's definitely worrying.

Fuck me don't like the sound of that.

The lad on twitter who said recently he asked Walsh had we bid for Costa and Walsh apparently said "I wish." That's fucking worrying and all.

Mess on and off the pitch and I don't think we know the half of it...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 30, 2017, 06:23:59 AM
I'm not saying he's shit, I am however heavily suggesting how much of a risk it would have been to go into a season based on what a 20 year old had done at youth level. Negligent in fact.

yeah i understand that Brap, i just think there where better right backs available than Cuco, ie Sagna, who has played at the top level won trophies and could have helped progress our younger defenders.

I knows he's older, but Cuco aint going to be playing much the next 3 years of his contract, Sagna would have been happy with a 1 year deal.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on September 30, 2017, 03:15:05 PM
What do we all know?

This Everton team is not the finished article, that's the reason for being positive

Koeman knows it, he is building a team and making do with playing a team that requires reinforcements - and has told us so

Koeman has the tools for the job, we're just in short supply of a few products

Keep the faith
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 30, 2017, 03:40:02 PM
I wonder what they mean by "brings baggage"?

Was he previously a bounty hunter, I wonder? 🤔
Put a stone on in a four week jolly in Italy,looking for players allegedly!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 30, 2017, 04:55:01 PM
What do we all know?

This Everton team is not the finished article, that's the reason for being positive

Koeman knows it, he is building a team and making do with playing a team that requires reinforcements - and has told us so

Koeman has the tools for the job, we're just in short supply of a few products

Keep the faith

The vast majority of players who have played the last few games, have been his signings.
my view is he needs to drop some of his signings, and let the players who did well last year have a turn.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on September 30, 2017, 06:01:55 PM
What do we all know?

This Everton team is not the finished article, that's the reason for being positive

Koeman knows it, he is building a team and making do with playing a team that requires reinforcements - and has told us so

Koeman has the tools for the job, we're just in short supply of a few products

Keep the faith

That was very much the case at this exact time a year ago and since Koeman came in we've brought in Pickford (£30m), Keane (£30m), Williams (£12m), Schneiderlin (£22m), Gana (£7m), Bolasie (£25m), Klaassen (£24m), Sigurdsson (£45m), Vlasic (£10m), Lookman (£10m), Sandro (£5m), Stekelenberg (£1m), DCL (£1m) plus Martina and Rooney plus Onyekuru will be joining next season.

If Koeman doesn't know how to get the most out of these players that have cost altogether more than £200m then I don't know what he's still doing here as manager.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on September 30, 2017, 06:11:54 PM
The following is lifted from the Echo pages. I cannot find the video.
The Dutchman was in candid mood on Friday afternoon at Finch Farm says he felt “s**t” after the game but is refusing to wallow in self-pity and remains determined to “make Everton a better team”.
Koeman also continues to dispute the perception that the club have spent heavily this summer and once again pointed to the amount of money the club received in player sales.
And when asked if he was worried about his situation, Koeman said he wouldn’t be losing any sleep over his future. “No. No. No. No. Not worried,” he said.
“Why do I need to be worried? Because the fans are unhappy?
“No. All the teams have spent more money. Huddersfield spent £30-£35m. We spent £50m. £45m.”
“It’s how you look to this situation!” he added.
“Even in Holland, they are saying “Look, they spent £150m! Look how they play!” Yeah? But we lost players. And we spent £40m or £45m. Why you speak always about £150m? You know that £150m now, four years ago it was £25m! If Lukaku was sold after Neymar, maybe Lukaku was going to be £130m! It’s not about money.”
Read More
Wayne Rooney fit for Everton's game with Burnley after scan
Quizzed again as to why he was not concerned about his future, Koeman said: “And what? I should be worried about my future?
“I am not worried about my future because I have belief in myself and the players.
“Finally, if the club makes another decision it is up to the club. If I am worried about my situation, how can you live?
“Enjoy life. I was s**t after yesterday, but now I am different.
“I can emotional and frustrated and I can be more disappointed than maybe the players and I know this situation.
“I like to continue and I like to finish the contract but I am not worried. If you are worried in this job, there is no life.
“There are 20 Premier League clubs, 20 managers, maybe 10-12-13 managers worried every day about their job?
I do my best. I live 24-hours for football and to make Everton a better team and to win more games. I cannot do more, if it is not good enough, it is not good enough but that is my experience. I was in Valencia five, six months....that happens. “It happens to everybody. Ancelotti, Van Gaal, Mourinho.”
Following Thursday night’s draw, Koeman repeated his belief that Everton’s squad are afraid, so how does he instil his levels of confidence in the players?
“The players don’t see a different attitude of the manager compared to last season,” he said.
No. No. I will do the same. I will fight every second of the day to make the team better and to make the right choices and of course everyone can have their opinion. I respect that.
“In football that is normal. If you don’t win, you have problems. Lets hope for a good after match press conference on Sunday!”
Asked if he had to secure a win against Burnley, Koeman said: “… West Ham need to win this weekend, Crystal Palace need to win this weekend, Liverpool needs to win this weekend.”
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on September 30, 2017, 08:42:42 PM
The following is lifted from the Echo pages. I cannot find the video.
The Dutchman was in candid mood on Friday afternoon at Finch Farm says he felt “s**t” after the game but is refusing to wallow in self-pity and remains determined to “make Everton a better team”.
Koeman also continues to dispute the perception that the club have spent heavily this summer and once again pointed to the amount of money the club received in player sales.
And when asked if he was worried about his situation, Koeman said he wouldn’t be losing any sleep over his future. “No. No. No. No. Not worried,” he said.
“Why do I need to be worried? Because the fans are unhappy?
“No. All the teams have spent more money. Huddersfield spent £30-£35m. We spent £50m. £45m.”
“It’s how you look to this situation!” he added.
“Even in Holland, they are saying “Look, they spent £150m! Look how they play!” Yeah? But we lost players. And we spent £40m or £45m. Why you speak always about £150m? You know that £150m now, four years ago it was £25m! If Lukaku was sold after Neymar, maybe Lukaku was going to be £130m! It’s not about money.”
Read More
Wayne Rooney fit for Everton's game with Burnley after scan
Quizzed again as to why he was not concerned about his future, Koeman said: “And what? I should be worried about my future?
“I am not worried about my future because I have belief in myself and the players.
“Finally, if the club makes another decision it is up to the club. If I am worried about my situation, how can you live?
“Enjoy life. I was s**t after yesterday, but now I am different.
“I can emotional and frustrated and I can be more disappointed than maybe the players and I know this situation.
“I like to continue and I like to finish the contract but I am not worried. If you are worried in this job, there is no life.
“There are 20 Premier League clubs, 20 managers, maybe 10-12-13 managers worried every day about their job?
I do my best. I live 24-hours for football and to make Everton a better team and to win more games. I cannot do more, if it is not good enough, it is not good enough but that is my experience. I was in Valencia five, six months....that happens. “It happens to everybody. Ancelotti, Van Gaal, Mourinho.”
Following Thursday night’s draw, Koeman repeated his belief that Everton’s squad are afraid, so how does he instil his levels of confidence in the players?
“The players don’t see a different attitude of the manager compared to last season,” he said.
No. No. I will do the same. I will fight every second of the day to make the team better and to make the right choices and of course everyone can have their opinion. I respect that.
“In football that is normal. If you don’t win, you have problems. Lets hope for a good after match press conference on Sunday!”
Asked if he had to secure a win against Burnley, Koeman said: “… West Ham need to win this weekend, Crystal Palace need to win this weekend, Liverpool needs to win this weekend.”

Mourinho, Ancelotti etc 😂
The knob obviously thinks he's a superstar manager. The quotes if they are quotes are arrogant.
Can't wait til he fucks off

Also love the way he pretends he hasn't spent £220m on a shit squad which is his own team
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 30, 2017, 09:05:53 PM
that interview shows how deluded he is. i want him to do well. but his arrogance and ego will not let him see what he's doing wrong.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Elgoodo1978 on September 30, 2017, 11:40:58 PM

The Dutchman was in candid mood on Friday afternoon at Finch Farm says he felt “s**t” after the game but is refusing to wallow in self-pity and remains determined to “make Everton a better team”.
Koeman also continues to dispute the perception that the club....”

Not sure what to make of that, lots of negatives could be interpreted from it, "I like to continue and I like to finish the contract but I am not worried" seems particularly blasé.  Like I really want to have faith in him turning things around for the long term but he may not even be fucked enough to stay that long anyhow.  Whats going on here?  Seems like we've brought in players and coaching staff who have done the hard work, feel they have nothing to prove anyone (arrogantly) and are currently enjoying semi-retirement at Finch farm spa while pondering what publishing deal to sign for their forthcoming life story.

Fuck me this club is getting to me, what am i on about?!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 02:18:21 AM
Victory tomorrow will take us to eighth, hopefully that will stop the stupid calls for his head.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 01, 2017, 02:39:02 AM
Victory tomorrow will take us to eighth, hopefully that will stop the stupid calls for his head.
Lots of fair level headed posters have come down in both in and out camps with regards to RK,views are far from stupid,but think the 3 points will calm the waters.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 02:42:23 AM
Lots of fair level headed posters have come down in both in and out camps with regards to RK,views are far from stupid,but think the 3 points will calm the waters.

Sacking a manager seven games into a season after we were quite happy with his performance last year is stupid.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 01, 2017, 03:00:59 AM
Victory tomorrow will take us to eighth, hopefully that will stop the stupid calls for his head.

Do you think he's the best manager we can hope for or even close to that? 8th 18th or 1st his performance and our teams performances have been inept this season

I do think he's entitled to more time I do also think he's absolutely the wrong man for the job.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 01, 2017, 03:05:28 AM
Sacking a manager seven games into a season after we were quite happy with his performance last year is stupid.


I think it's the word sack that's the issue. We'd replace a player who we were happy with last season 7 games in. We'd do that even if that player was playing well

It really depends what the alternatives are but does any of us really believe koeman is a great manager, worth his massive contract or the best we can do.

I'm in no rush to sack him but what happens in the next window if he treats himself to another 3 overpriced under paced playmakers who don't make the play and doesn't bother with any pace or width and isn't flexiable on which forward we sign.

Surely the moment you decide he isn't the long term answer and we can do better is the moment you get shut? What's the difference between 7 games and 27 if there's better options out there
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 01, 2017, 03:08:16 AM
 :laugh:
Sacking a manager seven games into a season after we were quite happy with his performance last year is stupid.
Di matteo won fa cup and CL at Chelsea and was sacked months later.....football at the top flight is littered with shit like that.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 03:09:58 AM
Do you think he's the best manager we can hope for or even close to that? 8th 18th or 1st his performance and our teams performances have been inept this season

I do think he's entitled to more time I do also think he's absolutely the wrong man for the job.

Pretty much. The only managers that would come running to us are the likes of Dyche and Howe; equally as big a gamble as Koeman without the attraction of a stellar playing career that may help with recruitment. All managers are gambles and the further down the food chain you are the bigger the gamble is. If we get rid of Koeman we will still be looking at appointing from tier 2/3 of managers. We've given him the job; let's not lose our nerve the first rough spell he has.

People call for his sacking in one breath and suggest we get Anchellotti in the next. And we like to call Newcastle fans deluded!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 03:12:53 AM

I think it's the word sack that's the issue. We'd replace a player who we were happy with last season 7 games in. We'd do that even if that player was playing well

It really depends what the alternatives are but does any of us really believe koeman is a great manager, worth his massive contract or the best we can do.

I'm in no rush to sack him but what happens in the next window if he treats himself to another 3 overpriced under paced playmakers who don't make the play and doesn't bother with any pace or width and isn't flexiable on which forward we sign.

Surely the moment you decide he isn't the long term answer and we can do better is the moment you get shut? What's the difference between 7 games and 27 if there's better options out there

So new players get seven games as well now? Farce!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 03:19:22 AM
:laugh:Di matteo won fa cup and CL at Chelsea and was sacked months later.....football at the top flight is littered with shit like that.

And the Championship is littered with former Premier League clubs that changed managers every season.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 01, 2017, 03:20:16 AM
Pretty much. The only managers that would come running to us are the likes of Dyche and Howe; equally as big a gamble as Koeman without the attraction of a stellar playing career that may help with recruitment. All managers are gambles and the further down the food chain you are the bigger the gamble is. If we get rid of Koeman we will still be looking at appointing from tier 2/3 of managers. We've given him the job; let's not lose our nerve the first rough spell he has.

People call for his sacking in one breath and suggest we get Anchellotti in the next. And we like to call Newcastle fans deluded!

I just don't trust him to sign players. Sack him don't sack him it's not gonna make much of a difference to this season. I do worry about letting him having 2 or 3 more windows though. Our recruitment for the first team as be inept
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 01, 2017, 03:23:16 AM
So new players get seven games as well now? Farce!

They get none. Unless you're suggesting some of them are gonna morph into a targetman or into pacy wide players

Individually I have my doubts but they are obviously entitled to more time to prove themselves. As a group though in terms of what we needed it was inept

Also In some cases we've bought proven and not good enough. No amount of time is gonna turn back the clock for rooney or make Sigurdsson value for money.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 03:25:57 AM
I just don't trust him to sign players. Sack him don't sack him it's not gonna make much of a difference to this season. I do worry about letting him having 2 or 3 more windows though. Our recruitment for the first team as be inept

By no means inept. It has been hit and miss but, again we are not recruiting from the very top by any means. The majority of his big signings have yet to play ten games in the toughest league in Europe. But I would say Bolasie, Pickford, Keane are successes. Sig showed signs on Thursday that he's coming up to speed.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on October 01, 2017, 03:28:47 AM
Evertonians have stumbled across a different form of colour blindness. They can't see any shades of grey
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 01, 2017, 03:30:55 AM
By no means inept. It has been hit and miss but, again we are not recruiting from the very top by any means. The majority of his big signings have yet to play ten games in the toughest league in Europe. But I would say Bolasie, Pickford, Keane are successes. Sig showed signs on Thursday that he's coming up to speed.

Love bolasie. Pickford has been decent but no more really. Keanes been a bit shit
I think we overpaid for both given 1 had been relegated and the other had 1 year on his contract. Sigurdsson he's a decent player. We paid 45m for him though.
I'm not so much talking about individuals though. They have been anywhere for okay to quite good. The 2 bad 1s sandro and klassen definitely need more time before we judge. I mean more as a whole inept. No pace no width no striker. Rooney klassen and Sigurdsson when 1 would surely have done. Over paid a lot of the time too. In terms of individuals it's been okay. In terms of building a team inept
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 01, 2017, 03:48:05 AM
And the Championship is littered with former Premier League clubs that changed managers every season.
The good ship Everton wont be going down,but the captain needs to focus on the crew.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 04:02:24 AM
Love bolasie. Pickford has been decent but no more really. Keanes been a bit shit
I think we overpaid for both given 1 had been relegated and the other had 1 year on his contract. Sigurdsson he's a decent player. We paid 45m for him though.
I'm not so much talking about individuals though. They have been anywhere for okay to quite good. The 2 bad 1s sandro and klassen definitely need more time before we judge. I mean more as a whole inept. No pace no width no striker. Rooney klassen and Sigurdsson when 1 would surely have done. Over paid a lot of the time too. In terms of individuals it's been okay. In terms of building a team inept

The argument about price is redundant as if you're prepared to pay then that's the price. I'm sure Koeman doesn't control the purse strings.
We need a squad and are getting in the players as and when we can. I don't think Koeman thinks this squad is the finished article at all. But we will need a big squad if we are to compete and have fresh players right to the end of the season to avoid the tail-off we have suffered in the past. And that squad will include three number tens; the only reason they're all being played at the moment is we are lacking a front man and our wingers are not performing or are too young to be relied upon.
Fees have gone crazy, it's proved harder to get out targets and there seems to be a lack of decent strikers we could realistically attract.   
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 01, 2017, 04:23:29 AM

I think it's the word sack that's the issue. We'd replace a player who we were happy with last season 7 games in. We'd do that even if that player was playing well

It really depends what the alternatives are but does any of us really believe koeman is a great manager, worth his massive contract or the best we can do.

I'm in no rush to sack him but what happens in the next window if he treats himself to another 3 overpriced under paced playmakers who don't make the play and doesn't bother with any pace or width and isn't flexiable on which forward we sign.

Surely the moment you decide he isn't the long term answer and we can do better is the moment you get shut? What's the difference between 7 games and 27 if there's better options out there

Name some better options, I don't like Koeman but who's out there right now who would take the job who's a lot better?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 01, 2017, 04:26:36 AM
By no means inept. It has been hit and miss but, again we are not recruiting from the very top by any means. The majority of his big signings have yet to play ten games in the toughest league in Europe. But I would say Bolasie, Pickford, Keane are successes. Sig showed signs on Thursday that he's coming up to speed.

Not at all, Keane is very average, he had one good season at a shit team, what did Bolasie do before he got injured to be labelled a success?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 04:34:31 AM
Not at all, Keane is very average, he had one good season at a shit team, what did Bolasie do before he got injured to be labelled a success?

Keane has played six games and look every inch a Premier League player.

Did you see Bolasie play? If so how did you miss his pacy direct running with the ball, crossing ability that brought many goals for Lukaku and his ability to attract defenders away from team mates?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 01, 2017, 04:47:55 AM
Pretty much. The only managers that would come running to us are the likes of Dyche and Howe; equally as big a gamble as Koeman without the attraction of a stellar playing career that may help with recruitment. All managers are gambles and the further down the food chain you are the bigger the gamble is. If we get rid of Koeman we will still be looking at appointing from tier 2/3 of managers. We've given him the job; let's not lose our nerve the first rough spell he has.

People call for his sacking in one breath and suggest we get Anchellotti in the next. And we like to call Newcastle fans deluded!


I've always hated Raphael Beaneathus, but the lulz would be heavy if he somehow came to us.

i know you stated nothing of the sort, but you mentioned Newcastle and managers, I feel he's a much better tactical manager, much better man motivator, and someone who has won titles almost everywhere he has managed. big upgrade on Koeman.. imho. but its never happening..
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: phillyt on October 01, 2017, 04:53:32 AM
Sacking a manager seven games into a season after we were quite happy with his performance last year is stupid.

If it was just results then I’d agree but the whole demeanour of the man is off, the performance, organisation everything is terrible. Even the victories have been tougher than necessary. By Christmas we will be out of the EL, CC and out of contention for European qualification through the league. I genuinely can not see why you would give any manager this crucial period of time given the nature of his failure so far.
I admired palace for doing what they did with fdb. But if he had got our job last year evertonians would have been saying he needs time even if we were bottom of the championship.

He is failing, he doesn’t care about it, he can’t turn it round. Get rid now and rescue the season. He will be fucking us off at the end of it anyway.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on October 01, 2017, 05:07:10 AM
Sacking a manager seven games into a season after we were quite happy with his performance last year is stupid.
Said it before ...his only tactic last year was lump it to lukaku ... everybody is happy when winning ...but comes under scrutiny when the shit hits the fan, what tactics and or anything at all  have you seen this year that make you think he deserves more time do tell
..are we do be out of all competitions and relegated or in the bottom two before he should feel the axe in your eyes?  .
Truly am curious why you have so much feeling for a manager that told lukaku himself he needs to find a better club ,the same manager that has caused upset to countless other players ...shown no guile or awareness since the league started and blames only the players for his continual poor team sheet (square pegs round holes) choice ?.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 01, 2017, 05:14:17 AM
Keane has played six games and look every inch a Premier League player.

Did you see Bolasie play? If so how did you miss his pacy direct running with the ball, crossing ability that brought many goals for Lukaku and his ability to attract defenders away from team mates?

I'd certainly hope he'd look like a premiership player - he cost £30m, he's also looked uncomfortable and overpriced
Yes I watched Bolasie play - rating him as a success in an Everton shirt is nonsense
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 01, 2017, 05:50:00 AM
Yeah people have very rose tinted specs when it comes to Bolassie's short time playing with us.

He had a few great moments. But he was also incredibly inconsistent for a player with his experience and very frustrating with little end product at times.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MrWhite on October 01, 2017, 07:40:18 AM
Prob been mentioned but Koeman is favourite to leave next
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gwells on October 01, 2017, 08:29:44 AM
I will give him until Xmas to turn it around. Still in Europa and top 10 in Premier League will suffice until January transfer window. However I am not in favour of big named mangers to take over I think Unsy and Duncan should be given the job and Walsh to remain as Director of Football. Unsay knows the style  we need to play to win, speed and width and will not be afraid to bring in a youngest brightest stars for under performing big names.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: plumber on October 01, 2017, 02:57:07 PM

I've always hated Raphael Beaneathus, but the lulz would be heavy if he somehow came to us.

i know you stated nothing of the sort, but you mentioned Newcastle and managers, I feel he's a much better tactical manager, much better man motivator, and someone who has won titles almost everywhere he has managed. big upgrade on Koeman.. imho. but its never happening..

Thank God for that.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluenuck on October 01, 2017, 03:00:10 PM
Sack him now and "Save our season"????? Lol

So if we keep him we may finish 11th or so? But sack him now and we "save our season" and finish 7th or 8th. Lmao.

Oh, the ambitious.

We have some seriously shit, or past it players, guys. Williams, jags, baines, Rooney. We also have a handful of young players still learning. Davies, holgate, lookman, dcl, kenny.

Patience is a lost attribute.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on October 01, 2017, 03:12:21 PM
If he plays a narrow, unenterprising side today, and we play badly, and lose 2-0 or 3-0, would you want him and/or expect him to be sacked?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: plumber on October 01, 2017, 05:20:49 PM
I wonder if Southampton fans two years ago, before Koeman turned things around and they finished in the highest ever Premier League place with the highest ever Premier League points total, were  reacting in the same way Everton fans are reacting now. Or are we the special breed of bedwetters and crybabies?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 01, 2017, 05:25:48 PM
I wonder if Southampton fans two years ago, before Koeman turned things around and they finished in the highest ever Premier League place with the highest ever Premier League points total, were  reacting in the same way Everton fans are reacting now. Or are we the special breed of bedwetters and crybabies?

Maybe they were but I think fans have a right to complain with the crap we're watching knowing we've got the 12th most expensive squad in the world
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 01, 2017, 05:30:56 PM
I wonder if Southampton fans two years ago, before Koeman turned things around and they finished in the highest ever Premier League place with the highest ever Premier League points total, were  reacting in the same way Everton fans are reacting now. Or are we the special breed of bedwetters and crybabies?

that Southampton team played well, they where attacking, fluid, they showed heart and passion, they where determined to do well..

nothing like Koemans Everton.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: plumber on October 01, 2017, 05:45:47 PM
that Southampton team played well, they where attacking, fluid, they showed heart and passion, they where determined to do well..

nothing like Koemans Everton.

That's bullshit.  They were really poor in the first half of the season and were sitting in the bottom half for the reason. There was a spell (from November to January I think) when they lost 8 of 10 games. We are far from that at the moment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on October 01, 2017, 05:52:27 PM
That's bullshit.  They were really poor in the first half of the season and were sitting in the bottom half for the reason. There was a spell (from November to January I think) when they lost 8 of 10 games. We are far from that at the moment.

A Martinez Everton smashed them 3-0 in a canter .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on October 01, 2017, 05:57:23 PM
That's bullshit.  They were really poor in the first half of the season and were sitting in the bottom half for the reason. There was a spell (from November to January I think) when they lost 8 of 10 games. We are far from that at the moment.

Are all these "spells" acceptable from a top premier league manager?

It's hardly cry arsing not wanting to see that sort of thing continually repeat itself is it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: plumber on October 01, 2017, 07:16:04 PM
Are all these "spells" acceptable from a top premier league manager?

It's hardly cry arsing not wanting to see that sort of thing continually repeat itself is it.

Didn't mean to like it  :)

Do you think it's avoidable? Better managers than Koeman and better teams than Everton has bad patches. I'm fine with this unless that patch lasts 2 years.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KingOfNapaValley on October 01, 2017, 09:27:00 PM
First off, Koeman was not in charge of transfers at Southampton. The Director of Football and the scouts were.

Second, that club built primarily from within, with homegrown talent that had been there years before Koeman ever set foot on their training ground, so they were cohesive for reasons other than Ronald. Managers don't really matter at Southampton and regardless of who is in, the club continues on its merry way.

Third, their fans were not expecting or demanding top 4 finishes and thus the executives have time to get the vision and execution right.

Add all that together and you have a fun, positive and successful club.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Zoolander on October 01, 2017, 09:29:23 PM
Ok
This is fucking bereft of quality
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: phillyt on October 01, 2017, 09:36:06 PM
I wonder if Southampton fans two years ago, before Koeman turned things around and they finished in the highest ever Premier League place with the highest ever Premier League points total, were  reacting in the same way Everton fans are reacting now. Or are we the special breed of bedwetters and crybabies?
Bedwetters? For wanting the best out of our club. We are bigger and better than Southampton. I don’t give a flying fuck what their reaction was. We should not be satisfying with scraping into the Europa league. We should be aiming to get into the champions league. The players we have brought in there should be a semblance of cohesion. We are offering nothing. If your happy to sit and wait this out sound but I’m not. I had to watch the majority of Everton fans ridicule me saying Martinez had to go from January 2015. Making excuse after excuse for his failures, the assumption we would win the EL and move forward. Don’t make the same mistake with koeman because I see absolutely no sign that this is going to improve. We struggled to get a result against Bournemouth, we are losing this another shocking performance. We were battered by a small club from Italy and a mid table team from Cyprus. We should have seen 4 easy wins out of that.
Where to you see the signs of change or improvement? Because I see none.

It’s not bedwetting, it’s demanding that someone who is letting us down, failing is sacked before it gets any worse.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on October 01, 2017, 09:47:06 PM
So wanting better from your club when they are playing like they are now is making us  crybabies 😅😅😅...maybe we have an Accrington Stanley manager but our fans expect better .. .than his constant inept performance .😅😅ffs
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KingOfNapaValley on October 01, 2017, 09:48:43 PM
Bedwetters? For wanting the best out of our club. We are bigger and better than Southampton.

We ARE bigger. But in recent history, NOT better, at least not since Southampton joined the PL and not if you make that claim based on actual results.

SEASON...EVERTON...SOUTHAMPTO N
2017.........16.............. ..12
2016..........7.............. ...8
2015.........11.............. ..6
2014.........11.............. ..7
2013.........5............... ...8

AVERAGE...10................8

It is well-understood that Southampton are probably the best run club in England. But no club emulates them because they are not patient enough. Most clubs still believe in the fantasy of the savior-manager. Most clubs' fans think all their problems can be solved in the transfer market. And Southampton just goes along, ignoring myths and making long-term, smart decisions that keep the club upper-mid table year after year.

In my opinion, if we ran our club as smart as Southampton, but with Moshiri money, we would threaten. But it might take 4-5 years. I am patient enough for that. Most fans at most clubs are not.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on October 01, 2017, 10:01:38 PM
So football is about players, systems and motivation with a sprinkle of confidence. Koeman is unable to find a decent system or motivate players which in turn impacts confidence so it is only worth talking about his signings in terms of impsct/value for money...

Pickford 6/10 - I keep hearing what a great signing he is but I have not seen anything yet to suggest he is a 30m player. Done nothing steks or roubles couldn't do yet
Williams 2/10 - horrible player- so bad it's a joke
Martina 2/10 - as above
Morgan 5/10 - bang average for 28m
Gueye 7/10 - was brilliant last year but dropped off this
Dcl 5/10 - shows promise but lacks finishing touch
Sig 3/10 - I'm sure will improve but embarrasing paying 45m for what he brings to the table
Lookman 3/10 - showed glimpses but can't get into a terrible team which says it all
Keane 4/10 - better than williams but not justifying his price tag yet
Vlasic 6/10 - early days but looks half devent
Bolasie 5/10 - was well overpriced at the time and often flatters to deceive
Valencia 4/10 - bang average
Rooney 4/10 - if he d have watched him for utd he d have known he was past it
Sandro 2/10 - shown nowt

Not great is it ?

Watching the last few games has also  shown me that any team no matter how little talent they hold have a chance against us if they play with any form of gameplan/discipline.

We are horrible to watch and have virtually no good players these days despite wasting all that money. Imo we are worse than under martinez and he needs to get the boot so we can at least try and get someone in who can motivate the team before we find ourselves deep in a relegation scrap.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Tinga on October 01, 2017, 10:09:04 PM
Dreadful.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: griff969 on October 01, 2017, 10:09:24 PM
This is getting serious now. if you cannot score, or even create chances, then you cannot win football matches.

For all the supposed 'talent' we have we are just so poor.

It's a long time until January too, and even then who would want to join us in our current state?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on October 01, 2017, 10:09:41 PM
If we can get Tuchel in, I'd let him go. We're spiraling right now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KingOfNapaValley on October 01, 2017, 10:10:44 PM
If we can get Tuchel in, I'd let him go. We're spiraling right now.

No f###### way he would come here.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Tinga on October 01, 2017, 10:10:48 PM
If we can get Tuchel in, I'd let him go. We're spiraling right now.

You honestly think we're attractive enough for him? I think we need to set our sights much lower for somebody to drink from this poison chalice.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Dr. Sponge on October 01, 2017, 10:13:49 PM
Koeman out
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on October 01, 2017, 10:14:38 PM
You honestly think we're attractive enough for him? I think we need to set our sights much lower for somebody to drink from this poison chalice.
Anyone literally anyone would be better than him atm
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Cozzie on October 01, 2017, 10:14:57 PM
Tuchel and Ancelloti out of work, I can dream cant I?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 01, 2017, 10:15:11 PM
It’s obvious he’s having trouble motivating his players and communicating his ideas. I think we started better than of late and looked bright to begin with but heads dropped after their goal and we never really got back into it.

I still maintain the board are as responsible as Koeman for this mess. Niasse isn’t good enough and DCL / Vlasic aren’t ready.

You could argue Burnley have better attacking options than us in Vokes, Barnes and Wood...how’s that for perspective?!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Cozzie on October 01, 2017, 10:15:48 PM
Moyes back on a short term deal?

Im messing like but ya know.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on October 01, 2017, 10:15:50 PM
You honestly think we're attractive enough for him? I think we need to set our sights much lower for somebody to drink from this poison chalice.

He's out of a job, he's never managed in the PL, we pay a truckload of money. Plus, the bar is set kinda low for him right now.

Absolutely we could get someone like him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KingOfNapaValley on October 01, 2017, 10:16:22 PM
If we can wait a month or so, we might be able to get Klopp.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 01, 2017, 10:16:26 PM
Tuchel and Ancelloti out of work, I can dream cant I?
Are they going to bring better players with them? Ours are shite.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bwana on October 01, 2017, 10:16:29 PM
Unsworth. Been working with the young guys etc. Has credibility from his playing days.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 01, 2017, 10:17:23 PM
Unsworth. Been working with the young guys etc. Has credibility from his playing days.

Go & stick your head in the microwave for 3 minutes
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: griff969 on October 01, 2017, 10:17:31 PM
The players just have no confidence in him. It is his job to motivate them. If he can't do it then he has to go.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: phillyt on October 01, 2017, 10:18:05 PM
We ARE bigger. But in recent history, NOT better, at least not since Southampton joined the PL and not if you make that claim based on actual results.

SEASON...EVERTON...SOUTHAMPTO N
2017.........16.............. ..12
2016..........7.............. ...8
2015.........11.............. ..6
2014.........11.............. ..7
2013.........5............... ...8

AVERAGE...10................8

It is well-understood that Southampton are probably the best run club in England. But no club emulates them because they are not patient enough. Most clubs still believe in the fantasy of the savior-manager. Most clubs' fans think all their problems can be solved in the transfer market. And Southampton just goes along, ignoring myths and making long-term, smart decisions that keep the club upper-mid table year after year.

In my opinion, if we ran our club as smart as Southampton, but with Moshiri money, we would threaten. But it might take 4-5 years. I am patient enough for that. Most fans at most clubs are not.



Sorry but I’m not accepting your little calculation. You haven’t included the years before we’re southampton we’re not in the premier league because they were not as good as Everton.

But again I don’t care what southampton do or have done. They sacked Puel after a year so your patience argument is out the window and why would they have sacked pochetino?

Let’s get this straight As well, I do not want to see the back of koeman solely because of results. It is the abject, pathetic, impotent performances. It’s the appalling team selections. It’s admiting he didn’t prepare a team for a vital European game. It’s the apparantly breakdown in communication with the players. This man is rotting out club from the inside and needs removing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KingOfNapaValley on October 01, 2017, 10:25:04 PM
So who would be your replacement that has not been shit for other clubs and could actually bring us top 4?

And please only include managers available today who would WANT to come here, not pie in the sky nonsense.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: D3blue on October 01, 2017, 10:25:38 PM
In answer to the question of the thread...the answer has swung to YES
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bwana on October 01, 2017, 10:25:39 PM
Go & stick your head in the microwave for 3 minutes

Oh. Is that so? You justified your counter-argument well, which leaves me only to concede and to say this:

Go and simulate coitus manually.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on October 01, 2017, 10:25:49 PM
Some facts about our build-up play this season. All from before today's game but still interesting.

https://twitter.com/deepxg/status/914502639315976193 (https://twitter.com/deepxg/status/914502639315976193)

https://twitter.com/deepxg/status/912959126497562624 (https://twitter.com/deepxg/status/912959126497562624)

https://twitter.com/footballfactman/status/914103820267003905 (https://twitter.com/footballfactman/status/914103820267003905)

Note: That pass was from Davies to Niasse.

Here's a video that describes some of the build-up issues using a few clips from the Bournemouth match.

https://twitter.com/footballfactman/status/914444428131160064 (https://twitter.com/footballfactman/status/914444428131160064)

Our ineffectiveness with the ball is killing us. Not only is it hard for us to score, but we're having trouble keeping clean sheets because the ball is coming back at us more than it should. Something is wrong systemically and Koeman doesn't appear to have a clue about how to fix it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 01, 2017, 10:26:17 PM
Fortunately we have 2 weeks off from this absolute shambles and Kenwright was right there in the stadium looking glum watching the game. Whether the board does anything to address this situation, fuck knows.

The club will have to swallow its pride and write off this 'Koeman Project', he might be given lots of compensation but that's something we will just have to accept.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 01, 2017, 10:29:36 PM
So who would be your replacement that has not been shit for other clubs and could actually bring us top 4?

And please only include managers available today who would WANT to come here, not pie in the sky nonsense.

Maybe no one can bring us top 4 currently theres plenty who wouldnt serve up this shite though. Does Koeman have a better managerial record than Big Sam (who everyone is horrified at the thought of) is he better than Dyche (another we all like to sneer at) If he wasnt a wonderful player hed have no manigerial career
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 01, 2017, 10:31:10 PM
Course we should fire him. He's a big boy on big money and he knows the score. He'd be off like a shot if he got a better offer. There's no room for sentiment. This is a club and company spending hundreds of millions on players and on a stadium. His performance has been largely incompetent for a sustained period of time. Keeping him now, while we still have plenty to play for, would only compound that incompetence.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on October 01, 2017, 10:32:37 PM
I don't know if Moshiri is that trigger happy, or he'll have an abundance of patience in this situation. However, I'd say if he isn't gone with this international break coming up...he's probably going to be here a while yet.

Absolutely would need someone signed on the dotted line first though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on October 01, 2017, 10:33:11 PM
Horrible to say but the bigger boys would be sacking him now, we won't though
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheTone on October 01, 2017, 10:34:48 PM
Maybe no one can bring us top 4 currently theres plenty who wouldnt serve up this shite though. Does Koeman have a better managerial record than Big Sam (who everyone is horrified at the thought of) is he better than Dyche (another we all like to sneer at) If he wasnt a wonderful player hed have no manigerial career

lots of truth in this, loads tend to always knock home grown managers, I'd include Pulis in this too, just not as sexy as a foreign name who may or may not have been a boss player in their day
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 01, 2017, 10:38:18 PM
lots of truth in this, loads tend to always knock home grown managers, I'd include Pulis in this too, just not as sexy as a foreign name who may or may not have been a boss player in their day

Id have Dyche, Big Sam or Unsworth today. I know thats not popular but wed be comfortably 7th and give the top teams a game under the 2 proven options. Sam and Dyche are both miles better than our last 2 managers possibly better than Moyes too. Theyd both potentailly be the best manager weve had for 20 years (granted its not high acclaim)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue1948 on October 01, 2017, 10:39:26 PM
Course we should fire him. He's a big boy on big money and he knows the score. He'd be off like a shot if he got a better offer. There's no room for sentiment. This is a club and company spending hundreds of millions on players and on a stadium. His performance has been largely incompetent for a sustained period of time. Keeping him now, while we still have plenty to play for, would only compound that incompetence.
I would love to slag that comment but I can't . That is sad ,as a true blue I am in despair ,the answer to it all evades me and sadly the PLAYERS and manager too . We cannot put the blame on just his shoulders ,I wish we could  .There are a lot of seasoned pros who should take a long hard look in the mirror tonight as well as the management team .But let's get this straight that it is much more than Koeman who are to blame for this shambles .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Polledreng on October 01, 2017, 10:42:44 PM
Horrible to say but the bigger boys would be sacking him now, we won't though
Also the smaller teams..
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mac934 on October 01, 2017, 10:44:23 PM
Also the smaller teams..
What does that make us?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 01, 2017, 10:49:32 PM
Id have Dyche, Big Sam or Unsworth today. I know thats not popular but wed be comfortably 7th and give the top teams a game under the 2 proven options. Sam and Dyche are both miles better than our last 2 managers possibly better than Moyes too. Theyd both potentailly be the best manager weve had for 20 years (granted its not high acclaim)

Yep. If anyone's the man to take us on and crack the top 4, it's Sam Allardyce.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Everton Mint on October 01, 2017, 10:50:03 PM
Question finally being put to Koeman after Burnley loss:

Koeman was asked if he was still the right man, he said: "I don't answer this type of question. That is not the business at this moment."

"If there is no commitment or no aggression (from the players) then maybe there is a question about my future."



Dyche: "There are no easy games.  (Koeman) is a very, very good manager.  We all have ups and downs."
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 01, 2017, 10:52:21 PM
Yep. If anyone's the man to take us on and crack the top 4, it's Sam Allardyce.

He's got a good record. Are you telling me koeman is a better manager. Apart from a short spell at Newcastle he's done a good job everywhere he's been.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on October 01, 2017, 10:52:53 PM
Whats fucking me off is were 0-1 down and i so want us to score and draw level but deep down im hoping we dont just so this cunt gets the flick quicker
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ridge on October 01, 2017, 10:53:38 PM
The team is playing without courage. The coordination is terrible, we make everything look hard work. The players looked terrified after we went behind, after a decent start, they went into their shells and rarely threatened to emerge, even after half time team talk.

It feels like Koeman is doing things he doesn't believe in or in random hope rather than design. He is chasing his tail and running out of options. Rotating out of desperation without any long term way of getting the team playing again. Sometimes you have to ride out a couple of games and stick with a team to play into form, but if every game is must win, you empty the tank without reward.

His authority is being undermined and his style has always been to deflect liability on to players. Being in the starting line up is a bit of a poisoned chalice now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ell Capitan on October 01, 2017, 10:55:14 PM
He's got a good record. Are you telling me koeman is a better manager.

No. But that doesn't mean we should replace him with Sam Allardyce.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Polledreng on October 01, 2017, 10:57:39 PM
What does that make us?
  paralyzed   (had to use google translate so not sure it's the right word  ;) )
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluestevie on October 01, 2017, 10:57:57 PM
Go & stick your head in the microwave for 3 minutes

Absolutely no need for that you utter cretin
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Confucius on October 01, 2017, 11:00:47 PM
It's that bad right now that I wonder if Moyes with money would of been better than this right now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on October 01, 2017, 11:02:47 PM
It's that bad right now that I wonder if Moyes with money would of been better than this right now.

He managed man u?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 01, 2017, 11:04:50 PM
Moyes as DOF. Royle and unsworth as managers. Couldn't be worse than this shit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 11:05:10 PM
It's that bad right now that I wonder if Moyes with money would of been better than this right now.

Well considering he's our best manager in twenty years without money....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 01, 2017, 11:13:21 PM
Oh. Is that so? You justified your counter-argument well, which leaves me only to concede and to say this:

Go and simulate coitus manually.

😂  I was only messing, I think there's much bigger problems than Unsworth would be able to fix, he's not a premiership manager and if we gave him the job after the initial lift (if we got one) we'd be in even deeper shit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 01, 2017, 11:15:34 PM
Absolutely no need for that you utter cretin

😭
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheTone on October 01, 2017, 11:17:29 PM
Moyes as DOF. Royle and unsworth as managers. Couldn't be worse than this shit.

(http://i.imgur.com/p0hLqV2.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 01, 2017, 11:18:16 PM
No. But that doesn't mean we should replace him with Sam Allardyce.



Im not suggesting we should. Just saying that hes better than what weve got and what weve had for a number of years. That maybe people shouldnt sneer at what would be an improvement
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 11:24:13 PM
All Everton fans are ever worried about is the result. We prove that by the mass walk-outs that greet the team going 0-2 down in home games. After a couple of wins we wouldn't give a thought to Allardyce's style of football.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bwana on October 01, 2017, 11:24:52 PM
😂  I was only messing, I think there's much bigger problems than Unsworth would be able to fix, he's not a premiership manager and if we gave him the job after the initial lift (if we got one) we'd be in even deeper shit.

Maybe. But something needs to be done to wake up this herd of zombies.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toshyboy on October 01, 2017, 11:25:50 PM
It’s the stubbornness that’s pissing me off, and I think what could be his downfall. We’re so easy to defend against cos we have zero width. Were playing names ahead of shape and are far too predictable. Lennon and lookman need to be in the team. The shape must come ahead of big names. Even if they aren’t playing great individually their width and pace will stretch teams. All teams have to do at the minute is play 451 against us and tuck the full backs in and we’re fucked!!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Sir Stealth on October 01, 2017, 11:30:36 PM
Feels now that the majority of the fan base don't have confidence in him. And on the pitch it would appear that most of the players don't

Feels a lot like the end of the Martinez era and end of the Smith era. Expectations were so low before Moyes came in that even at his worst it was probably never as clear cut with the fans as it is with Koeman now

Last season was an improvement on the previous season. We managed to make things solid at the back and we were defensively organised. Our home form was good and we moved from 11th to 7th, even though we were playing dull football. We can excuse that if we are getting results

Now we have the dull football but without the results going our way. We aren't solid and keeping clean sheets, we aren't playing attacking football so we aren't scoring many either

There's a horrible atmosphere around the club at the moment and I just don't think he has it in him to turn it around. We won't do any better than last season if he stays, so we may as well make a change while another manager can positively effect this team this season and then really kick us on next year

For me it's Koeman out. We are just wasting everyone's time by keeping him here
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lincs Toffee on October 01, 2017, 11:30:42 PM
It's getting harder to give him until January with performances like that, the sad thing is there is a fucking good team in there somewhere apart from a couple of obvious additions  required, if we can find this team that clicks we will be ok, I just don't think he has a clue now what to do next.
Further grim times ahead I feel.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 01, 2017, 11:32:24 PM
Maybe. But something needs to be done to wake up this herd of zombies.

Couldn't agree more dude, one things for sure - Koeman isn't capable of that
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Papa Smurf on October 01, 2017, 11:37:44 PM
Am I the only one who'd consider a return for Moyes?
I wouldn't expect miracles from him but I honestly trusted him with funds more than RK and I would hope the board still have plans to spend.
One thing is certain to me, RK & Walsh shouldn't be trusted with money until things vastly change on the pitch, especially from this summers recruits.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jeffers1984 on October 01, 2017, 11:41:58 PM
Now before I say what I’m going to say... I know it won’t happen, but we can but dream!

Get on the phone to Anchelloti - if he says yes, then fuck Koeman off. If he says no, let’s roll with it for a little longer as I see no one who can come in who would do any better...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheTone on October 01, 2017, 11:46:40 PM
Am I the only one who'd consider a return for Moyes?
I wouldn't expect miracles from him but I honestly trusted him with funds more than RK and I would hope the board still have plans to spend.
One thing is certain to me, RK & Walsh shouldn't be trusted with money until things vastly change on the pitch, especially from this summers recruits.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f59d48f20907d137a3c6aaba9ab31f7e/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 01, 2017, 11:46:46 PM
All Everton fans are ever worried about is the result. We prove that by the mass walk-outs that greet the team going 0-2 down in home games. After a couple of wins we wouldn't give a thought to Allardyce's style of football.

fuck the wins, its out style of football.. or lack of style..

least Allerdyce has a style.. do you know Koemans style?

i do not want Allerdyce, fuck that thieving / corrupt fucker.

Id rather have entertaining football, with shit results, than shit results with dull football.

If we had a style of play and we where entertaining, the wins would come, but Koemans style is draining the blue blood from the fans and from the players..

i dont get the view of giving him more time.. more time to do what?? continue playing 4231? clearly he has shown he isnt going to change his style that doesnt work. he seems so fucking blase about it.. which is the most worrying thing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 01, 2017, 11:47:01 PM
Walsh was a hasty appointment on the back of the Leicester fairy tale; I don't know of anyone who suggested we go for him before that season and I doubt Koeman asked to work with him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Paddockoldie on October 01, 2017, 11:48:14 PM
We seem to attract arrogant and stubborn fucker's who can't seem to accept that need to change how they set out teams up... I'd give him 3 more games to sort it before binning him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 01, 2017, 11:48:18 PM
Now before I say what I’m going to say... I know it won’t happen, but we can but dream!

Get on the phone to Anchelloti - if he says yes, then fuck Koeman off. If he says no, let’s roll with it for a little longer as I see no one who can come in who would do any better...
Would hope Moshiri is already on with stuff he has a lot at stake financially which is the key because like fuck he's an Evertonian ha.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 01, 2017, 11:48:47 PM
Walsh was a hasty appointment on the back of the Leicester fairy tale; I don't know of anyone who suggested we go for him before that season and I doubt Koeman asked to work with him.

Walsh is responsible for this shit too
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Paddockoldie on October 01, 2017, 11:49:44 PM
Walsh was a hasty appointment on the back of the Leicester fairy tale; I don't know of anyone who suggested we go for him before that season and I doubt Koeman asked to work with him.

You might have a valid point there fella.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 01, 2017, 11:53:59 PM
It's getting harder to give him until January with performances like that, the sad thing is there is a fucking good team in there somewhere apart from a couple of obvious additions  required, if we can find this team that clicks we will be ok, I just don't think he has a clue now what to do next.
Further grim times ahead I feel.

I don't like the idea of him spending a lot more money in the January transfer window especially as he doesn't know what to do with the existing players he brought in this summer past.

But you're right, there are some very good players there, just incredibly demoralised and confused as to what it is they are supposed to be doing on the pitch. Also it seems some players don't have a good relationship with the coach and want out like Mirallas and Barkley, Niasse has conducted himself with an incredible integrity so I'm glad that he has forced his way into Koeman's plans even if it is only because there are no other striker options present at the club.

A new manager could potentially create a new slate and offered some players, especially those possessing pace and width, a chance to become part of the team again and play in a more coherent fashion.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Smingers on October 01, 2017, 11:55:23 PM
Am I the only one who'd consider a return for Moyes?

Yes. Yes you are.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 01, 2017, 11:55:33 PM
A "director of football" only clouds the issue, better to assume they are both as shite as the other and fuck them both off and let them argue the toss on a beach somewhere or golf coarse or brothel or somert.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on October 01, 2017, 11:59:13 PM
Am I the only one who'd consider a return for Moyes?
I wouldn't expect miracles from him but I honestly trusted him with funds more than RK and I would hope the board still have plans to spend.
One thing is certain to me, RK & Walsh shouldn't be trusted with money until things vastly change on the pitch, especially from this summers recruits.
Sorry but terrible shout
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on October 02, 2017, 12:02:05 AM
No. But that doesn't mean we should replace him with Sam Allardyce.
I don't want him but he d be better Ronald no doubt
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 12:03:10 AM
can we reset the poll and change the options to sack now or not do sack. would like to get a feel of what nsno'ers think..
dont want to read why they want him sacked or not.. just a consensus..
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ridge on October 02, 2017, 12:06:27 AM
I think everyone appreciates it was a difficult ask to essentially replace all our attacking players overnight. But he had more money than any previous manager or team that finished below us. We go to big clubs and roll over for a tummy tickle and struggle to impose ourselves or seem to have much of a plan on how to create chances, let alone good ones.

I don't see Koeman understanding how to use crowd to his advantage, how to use subs to not just change the style of play, but also give the crowd a lift and change the momentum. We were unlucky to go behind, but we needed changes at half time, or very shortly after when things continued where they left off in first half.

Davies is not Platini, but he has come on and changed momentum of games. Him and Niasse showed one of few signs of being able to link up, and they get separated and he brings off Vlasic who had looked more lively than most.

The players we have are clearly better than they are showing. Koeman situation seems opposite end of Martinez situation, in that Koeman seems unwilling to shed his defence first mentality, or have an idea about how to get a team to create.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: bluenuck on October 02, 2017, 12:09:58 AM
There's a blueprint out now on how to play against us. It's why it makes us look so bad. All opposing managers need to do is watch a few of our games from this season and they have it.

A good coach will change our way of playing to break through this blueprint.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: fubarruk on October 02, 2017, 12:13:04 AM
Yes, we're a 'nothing' side at the moment, someone needs to inject something, anything...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: christiffa25 on October 02, 2017, 12:13:48 AM
Time to let him go now before this is a completely wasted season both at home and in Europe!

He's not gonna change. His football style is dull Dutch!! His and Walsh signings have been pretty poor really in terms of getting what we actually needed.

I don't believe for a second Barkley wanted to leave for football or money reasons. He wants out due to Koeman. As does mirallas. And imo there's a fair few players out there not playing for the manager.

Yes, get on the blower to ancelotti ! Don't know why people think he would automatically turn us down. Big PL team with money and ambition? And even though koemans doing his best to prove otherwise. A team with a squad of very good players!!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:18:48 AM
As (possibly) mentioned on here before, I’ve heard Koeman is a bit of a control freak and has lost the dressing room with Lookman being his latest victim. I don’t recall anything of this type going an at Southampton?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on October 02, 2017, 12:21:49 AM
As (possibly) mentioned on here before, I’ve heard Koeman is a bit of a control freak and has lost the dressing room with Lookman being his latest victim. I don’t recall anything of this type going an at Southampton?
Didn't he fall out with mane and tadic  ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 12:24:20 AM
As (possibly) mentioned on here before, I’ve heard Koeman is a bit of a control freak and has lost the dressing room with Lookman being his latest victim. I don’t recall anything of this type going an at Southampton?

So what's the alleged story with Lookman?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: christiffa25 on October 02, 2017, 12:26:13 AM
Didn't he fall out with mane and tadic  ?

He did yeah....
Tadic was completely disregarded from the first team if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:30:36 AM
So what's the alleged story with Lookman?

I didn’t get told the full story, I just mentioned it to someone about the Mirallas and Barkley situation and they responded by saying that Lookman had fallen foul for whatever reason. Something is obviously not right, a side that’s crying out for wingers yet they’re sat on their arses?!

These Dutch, past and present, do seem to have a chip on their shoulder or they’re a bit mad like.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:31:11 AM
Didn't he fall out with mane and tadic  ?

I didn’t know that.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 12:40:20 AM
I think everyone appreciates it was a difficult ask to essentially replace all our attacking players overnight.

What attacking players were they then? Barry is the only one to go that was used last year,,barkley injured,,mirralas bench,,,lookman bench and bolasie injured early on and coleman...we have attacking players we either dont play them (davies) or play them in their right postions...weve technically lost 3 players and weve fallen to pieces barry barkley and lukaku
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: 74Blue on October 02, 2017, 12:45:03 AM
Sack the cunt and give him that £12m chunk of shite Ashley Williams in Lieu of compensation. Anything to ensure that the fucking prick never wears an Everton shirt again. He bought the fucking Welsh bellend, so he can fucking take him with him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheTone on October 02, 2017, 12:51:09 AM
Get Big Marco in
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 02, 2017, 01:16:01 AM
A contender.................... ....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: piggypop on October 02, 2017, 01:16:24 AM
Anyone ordered a plane yet?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 01:18:51 AM
Anyone ordered a plane yet?

Fuck the plane someone who sits behind the dug out needs to sneak a banner in
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rhys on October 02, 2017, 01:19:31 AM
Yes, get on the blower to ancelotti ! Don't know why people think he would automatically turn us down. Big PL team with money and ambition? And even though koemans doing his best to prove otherwise. A team with a squad of very good players!!

Because in the last 20 years he's managed Juve, Milan, Chelsea, psg, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. I'm not sure going to a team that's finished 7th last year, bottom half the two years before and is currently near the bottom of the table this is season is high on his list of wants no matter how much we threw at him. He'll wait for an arsenal, Chelsea type job over here.

He has spent the last 20 years working with the best players in the leagues with one of the top couple of teams in the leagues that's what he does, that's what he will want.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on October 02, 2017, 01:25:48 AM
I'm not sure he'll venture onto Twitter tonight 😳
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blue1948 on October 02, 2017, 01:30:05 AM
Because in the last 20 years he's managed Juve, Milan, Chelsea, psg, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. I'm not sure going to a team that's finished 7th last year, bottom half the two years before and is currently near the bottom of the table this is season is high on his list of wants no matter how much we threw at him. He'll wait for an arsenal, Chelsea type job over here.

He has spent the last 20 years working with the best players in the leagues with one of the top couple of teams in the leagues that's what he does, that's what he will want.
As opposed to a young Dutch manager who was wooing everyone from Arsenal to Barcelona ,delighting the Premier with his achievements with a limited squad in an unfashionable club .A manager definitely on route to the very top.Look where that got us ! Pray tell me what an Arsenal or Chelsea type job might be then? Could it be Arsenal or even Chelsea ( the league winners )
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Confucius on October 02, 2017, 01:35:55 AM
Keep going on the BBC sport website hoping for the Koeman sacked headline. Really can't stand them man.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 02, 2017, 01:36:12 AM
I'm not sure he'll venture onto Twitter tonight 😳

Erm...

https://twitter.com/RonaldKoeman/status/914529940153958400
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 01:36:40 AM
As opposed to a young Dutch manager who was wooing everyone from Arsenal to Barcelona ,delighting the Premier with his achievements with a limited squad in an unfashionable club .A manager definitely on route to the very top.Look where that got us ! Pray tell me what an Arsenal or Chelsea type job might be then? Could it be Arsenal or even Chelsea ( the league winners )

LOL - WTF
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: AllyBlue14 on October 02, 2017, 01:37:08 AM
At what point is enough enough? Palace sacked FDB very early because that's all they needed to see he was taking them in the wrong direction. Sadly for them, I don't think Hodgson is going to be the answer.

But how many more of these performances do we have to take? Do we have to be adrift in the relegation zone and out of Europe for the Board to realise there's a problem?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on October 02, 2017, 01:42:17 AM
Keep going on the BBC sport website hoping for the Koeman sacked headline. Really can't stand them man.

Am right in thinking he was your favourite player as well?

That must hurt man
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rhys on October 02, 2017, 01:44:38 AM
As opposed to a young Dutch manager who was wooing everyone from Arsenal to Barcelona ,delighting the Premier with his achievements with a limited squad in an unfashionable club .A manager definitely on route to the very top.Look where that got us ! Pray tell me what an Arsenal or Chelsea type job might be then? Could it be Arsenal or even Chelsea ( the league winners )

Firstly koeman is only 4 years younger than ancelotti...

Secondly it wasn't a dig at what ancelotti is capable of. Yes he hasn't got proof he can build a team or develop an average team in to a top one in the past 20 years but clearly if we could get him we would be daft not to.

It was more a point around how we wouldn't even be a consideration for him in my opinion. Even if we threw 10-15m a year he doesn't need an extremely difficult job, he can get one of the best teams in most good leagues where has a very good chance of winning titles and champions leagues. That's what he has done for 20 years so I don't see why he would suddenly set his sights on Europa league qualification hopefuls after all he has achieved.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: dunkster on October 02, 2017, 01:51:28 AM
If as someone posted, we have Chelsea  (cup), Lyon (europa) and arsenal (league) coming next, then we will know exactly where we are after those.
Defeats against Chelsea and Lyon mean we are out of those competitions and another defeat in league means rock bottom moral.
That's when I believe koeman should be sacked.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on October 02, 2017, 02:01:43 AM
https://twitter.com/ynfafootball/status/914514515055796226
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 02:08:55 AM
If as someone posted, we have Chelsea  (cup), Lyon (europa) and arsenal (league) coming next, then we will know exactly where we are after those.
Defeats against Chelsea and Lyon mean we are out of those competitions and another defeat in league means rock bottom moral.
That's when I believe koeman should be sacked.
We won't get beat, we'll get obliterated in all 3
Koeman is finished
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Sir Stealth on October 02, 2017, 02:13:50 AM
If as someone posted, we have Chelsea  (cup), Lyon (europa) and arsenal (league) coming next, then we will know exactly where we are after those.
Defeats against Chelsea and Lyon mean we are out of those competitions and another defeat in league means rock bottom moral.
That's when I believe koeman should be sacked.

We have Brighton away first followed by those games mentioned (Lyon twice) and then Leicester away
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: nwatson on October 02, 2017, 02:14:30 AM
Our season could effectively be over before the end of October. If thats not worth sacking the prick then what is?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 02:16:27 AM
If as someone posted, we have Chelsea  (cup), Lyon (europa) and arsenal (league) coming next, then we will know exactly where we are after those.
Defeats against Chelsea and Lyon mean we are out of those competitions and another defeat in league means rock bottom moral.
That's when I believe koeman should be sacked.

you believe he should be sacked, when we're out the Carrier bag cup? when we lose to Lyon. thus making the Europa obsolete (meaning we will go out in the group stages?) and losing to Arsenal so we're bottom? so we have an uphill struggle to get back into Europe?

seriously?? wouldnt you like us to stay in Europe? or atleast have some sort of moral for the cup competition??

why sack him when the season is dead, we still have a chance, just not under Koeman.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: dunkster on October 02, 2017, 02:19:26 AM
I think the board will give him those games tbh to turn it around
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: dazfrancis on October 02, 2017, 02:21:00 AM
When threads get this big the subject never happens. See the N'Zogbia threas

LOCK THE THREAD OR KOEMAN WILL BE HERE FOREVER
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 02:21:24 AM
We won't get beat, we'll get obliterated in all 3
Koeman is finished

He won't resign tho, I think he is more snidey/money hungry than Martinez, He'll want his pay day, thus we will have to sack him..

In the words of DCL, ' BUT OK'
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: dunkster on October 02, 2017, 02:22:14 AM
And to answer...if we could get a better manager in before our next game I'd be up for that. Koeman has lost his way as much if not more than the players.
He seems to admit he's clueless as to why the players lack aggression, pace, confidence etc.....well that's his bloody job
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 02:26:12 AM
Firstly koeman is only 4 years younger than ancelotti...

Secondly it wasn't a dig at what ancelotti is capable of. Yes he hasn't got proof he can build a team or develop an average team in to a top one in the past 20 years but clearly if we could get him we would be daft not to.

It was more a point around how we wouldn't even be a consideration for him in my opinion. Even if we threw 10-15m a year he doesn't need an extremely difficult job, he can get one of the best teams in most good leagues where has a very good chance of winning titles and champions leagues. That's what he has done for 20 years so I don't see why he would suddenly set his sights on Europa league qualification hopefuls after all he has achieved.

I'm not saying Ancelotti would come but he's pretty much ticked all the top boxes in every league over the past 20 years and there aren't many teams, if any, he hasn't managed/aren't looking for a new manager that pay more than us. Eventually, like Mourinho, you run out of tier one clubs.

Just saying like.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on October 02, 2017, 02:26:18 AM
International break now so Koeman will prob be on the golf course in the Algarve tomorrow
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 02:26:49 AM
I think the board will give him those games tbh to turn it around

He's going to persist with 4231, this leaving our full backs exposed when the opposition attack, Also expecting our fullbacks to get up the pitch so they can provide width, while he plays 2 defensive midfielders who have no guile or craft..

He hasnt done anything to address those issues in the matches we have played this season, why would the board give him longer?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 02:27:48 AM
International break now so Koeman will prob be on the golf course in the Algarve tomorrow

If he is they should.tell him to fucking stay there. Twat.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on October 02, 2017, 02:28:57 AM
Odds on to be sacked with most bookies now
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: charlatan on October 02, 2017, 02:30:47 AM
If as someone posted, we have Chelsea  (cup), Lyon (europa) and arsenal (league) coming next, then we will know exactly where we are after those.
Defeats against Chelsea and Lyon mean we are out of those competitions and another defeat in league means rock bottom moral.
That's when I believe koeman should be sacked.

Why bother?  We know what will happen now.  Get rid
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 02:32:38 AM
Odds on to be sacked with most bookies now

Will he get a runners up medal for coming 2nd in the sack race?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on October 02, 2017, 02:33:45 AM
Keep going on the BBC sport website hoping for the Koeman sacked headline. Really can't stand them man.

Ditto.

I can't stand watching us at the moment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Alfie Noakes on October 02, 2017, 02:36:55 AM
Considering Koeman is one of the top earners, they should try and get Tuchel in, no matter what it costs.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: wepull on October 02, 2017, 02:53:31 AM
I am not sure about player's confidence but Koeman is surely scared and has no confidence in himself.

Look at the number of changes which goes on every match. Even after a win we change approx 3-4 players every match and start from the scratch where he is still trying to find out what works and what doesn't and he has no idea about it. No manager in his proper mind would have started with Niasse, he was piss poor with very little technical abilities which were quite evident. He's just trying everything out to please the fans at the same time trying out what he thinks should work.

Our team was seriously poor today, we had Vlasic and Sig wide and no one in the centre who can do anything with the ball just made it difficult to build a decent play in. We just didn't have players who could create something from the centre and having two forwards who like to run just from the top was a poor decision.

From last year when we hit the form, we have lost 1 player i.e. Lukaku and maybe 2 with the injury of Barkley(someone he didn't want); and if he doesn't know what to do with the personnel he bought and we look so clueless on the pitch then he deserves to go and I don't think we should be wasting any time in doing that. Can't go through one more season of being meh overall which would be like 3 out of last 4 seasons(including this one). Everton is just killing the love for football for me.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Redartin on October 02, 2017, 03:06:26 AM
Sack him and fuck up his aspirations of managing Barcelona the same way he fucked up Everton's.
We waited for years to have a financial backer and when we finally get one the money is squandered on shite.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Smingers on October 02, 2017, 03:15:05 AM
When threads get this big the subject never happens. See the N'Zogbia threas

LOCK THE THREAD OR KOEMAN WILL BE HERE FOREVER

Nzogbia lol!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 03:18:54 AM
Anyone watching atalanta its 2-2 against juventus
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 03:19:40 AM
Sack him and fuck up his aspirations of managing Barcelona the same way he fucked up Everton's.
We waited for years to have a financial backer and when we finally get one the money is squandered on shite.
He wouldn't get the job at Barca's B team, he's fucking useless
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on October 02, 2017, 03:34:46 AM
The sooner we make a change, the better. The new manager boost is our best chance of salvaging anything from this season and, generally speaking, probably our best chance of seeing a product on the field that we can actually enjoy.

At this point, I think our best move is to sack Koeman and Walsh, hire Unsworth as interim manager until the end of the season, and focus on doing an in-depth search for a qualified director of football. That is, someone who can help not only with recruitment but also with managerial appointments and the hiring of other backroom staff. This is the most important position at the club and we can't have another rush job like Walsh. It would be worth it for us to pay top dollar to get the very best DoF we can because the biggest edge for us to exploit is in the market for backroom staff, not in the market for players (where the richest clubs reign supreme).

I know Unsworth will be unpopular so let me explain why I think it's the right move for the rest of the season:

- We have enough to talent to stay clear of a relegation scrap.
- Unsworth's U23s are always well-organized, which is a 100% transferable skill to first-team management. He might get schooled by more experienced managers on occasion but we will not suddenly become a shambles (or more shambolic than we already are). He wouldn't be doing so well at the level he's at if his side wasn't disciplined tactically.
- Whatever tactical nous (not much on current form) or "experience" we lose by letting Koeman go will be offset by the improvement in man management. The U23s will pretty much run through a wall for this guy. Maybe his act won't be as effective on older pros but keep in mind that we have a lot of young, hungry players who are already important contributors (Pickford, Keane, Holgate, Kenny, Davies, Klaassen, Vlasic, Lookman, Sandro, Calvert-Lewin, etc.). There's plenty there for him to work with, and a lot of those players already love and respect him. Plus, I have to imagine that he'll be pretty popular with a lot of the old guard, like Coleman, Baines, and Jagielka.
- Investing more minutes in the younger players now will pay dividends down the road.

I doubt we do anything at all but, if we do decide to act, I think that's our best play. As much as I'd like someone like Tuchel, I'm afraid that we'll continue to be a mess if we rush into finding a manager before we take care of the larger backroom problems at the club. (And if the backroom problems are Moshiri and Kenwright? Then we're well and truly fucked and no director of football or manager is going to sort it out, which is the scariest scenario and one that I prefer not to think about.)
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 03:35:51 AM
Is anyone actually pro koeman now? I don't mean give him a bit more time to lose a few more games before we sack him because we are Everton and don't sack managers in October. Actually see him as a long term answer. Is anyone confident in his abilities now? Would anyone extend his contract?
What am getting at is we all seem to be in agreement that he's not the answer. Just some debate as to how long we should plod of with the wrong man in charge.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 03:40:00 AM
I've said I'd be more than happy with Unsworth for now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 03:40:47 AM
I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Redartin on October 02, 2017, 03:41:15 AM
He wouldn't get the job at Barca's B team, he's fucking useless
But he doesn't think that. This disappointing time is the players fault, the recruitment people's fault, the tea lady's fault, everyone else's fault,  not his.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:43:49 AM
The sooner we make a change, the better. The new manager boost is our best chance of salvaging anything from this season and, generally speaking, probably our best chance of seeing a product on the field that we can actually enjoy.

At this point, I think our best move is to sack Koeman and Walsh, hire Unsworth as interim manager until the end of the season, and focus on doing an in-depth search for a qualified director of football. That is, someone who can help not only with recruitment but also with managerial appointments and the hiring of other backroom staff. This is the most important position at the club and we can't have another rush job like Walsh. It would be worth it for us to pay top dollar to get the very best DoF we can because the biggest edge for us to exploit is in the market for backroom staff, not in the market for players (where the richest clubs reign supreme).

I know Unsworth will be unpopular so let me explain why I think it's the right move for the rest of the season:

- We have enough to talent to stay clear of a relegation scrap.
- Unsworth's U23s are always well-organized, which is a 100% transferable skill to first-team management. He might get schooled by more experienced managers on occasion but we will not suddenly become a shambles (or more shambolic than we already are). He wouldn't be doing so well at the level he's at if his side wasn't disciplined tactically.
- Whatever tactical nous (not much on current form) or "experience" we lose by letting Koeman go will be offset by the improvement in man management. The U23s will pretty much run through a wall for this guy. Maybe his act won't be as effective on older pros but keep in mind that we have a lot of young, hungry players who are already important contributors (Pickford, Keane, Holgate, Kenny, Davies, Klaassen, Vlasic, Sandro, Calvert-Lewin, etc.). There's plenty there for him to work with, and a lot of those players already love and respect him. Plus, I have to imagine that he'll be pretty popular with a lot of the old guard, like Coleman, Baines, and Jagielka.
- Investing more minutes in the younger players now will pay dividends down the road.

I doubt we do anything at all but, if we do decide to act, I think that's our best play. As much as I'd like someone like Tuchel, I'm afraid that we'll continue to be a mess if we rush into finding a manager before we take care of the larger backroom problems at the club. (And if the backroom problems are Moshiri and Kenwright? Then we're well and truly fucked and no director of football or manager is going to sort it out, which is the scariest scenario and one that I prefer not to think about.)

You make a strong case and I love your posts, but this isn't an interim, this is most of the season and this type of appointment would make me very nervous. At the moment I don't think we'll be in a relegation battle, but adding a rookie manager to go head to head with Pep, Mourinho and the rest? I can see that ending not very well.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on October 02, 2017, 03:47:02 AM
Nows the perfect time to get rid.

Two week to scour Europe and sound out potential replacements.

I'd go all out for Tuchel at the moment. If he shows interest then get him in.

If he doesn't, still get rid of Koeman and give unsworth the job until the end of the season.

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on October 02, 2017, 03:48:14 AM
Without a shadow of a fucking doubt . That was one of the worse home displays I have seen . Utter utter shite .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ramjam on October 02, 2017, 03:48:21 AM
Get him off to Barca ASAP
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on October 02, 2017, 03:48:32 AM
Unsworth my arse. We are not Mickey Mouse Athletic, at least not just yet. If that is the way you are thinking, I believe Mickey Mellon of Tranmere is due for the sack. Try him. If Koeman goes, and I admit I am losing faith in him, at least try for a proven competent coach. Rafa Benitez if he could be prised from Newcastle. Mind you the  damage may already have been done with regard to the squad, so any replacement will struggle with the rubbish we have recently bought.  Very difficult situation this, and I wish I knew what Moshiri is thinking. Imagine telling Giroud in January that Unsworth wants you. Who? or whatever the French is for Who?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 03:52:10 AM
Unsworth my arse. We are not Mickey Mouse Athletic, at least not just yet. If that is the way you are thinking, I believe Mickey Mellon of Tranmere is due for the sack. Try him. If Koeman goes, and I admit I am losing faith in him, at least try for a proven competent coach. Rafa Benitez if he could be prised from Newcastle. Mind you the  damage may already have been done with regard to the squad, so any replacement will struggle with the rubbish we have recently bought.  Very difficult situation this, and I wish I knew what Moshiri is thinking. Imagine telling Giroud in January that Unsworth wants you. Who? or whatever the French is for Who?

Good manager but I couldn't abide a manager who insulted us, as he did. Have some self respect.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: dazfrancis on October 02, 2017, 03:56:42 AM
IF, big if, they were to employ Unsworth they would probably get Big Joe Royle in alongside him to advise him and have some experience in the dugout.

I imagine that would lift morale in the team a fuckload and even very senior players like Jags and Rooney would be fired up by having those two running things.

I mean, Koeman is fucking dour isn't he?

The Dutch Davie Moyes

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 03:59:24 AM
Sack him and fuck up his aspirations of managing Barcelona the same way he fucked up Everton's.

He's never managing Barcelona as long as he has a hole in his arse
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 04:03:23 AM
IF, big if, they were to employ Unsworth they would probably get Big Joe Royle in alongside him to advise him and have some experience in the dugout.

A bloke that's not managed at the top level since before I had pubes advising? No thanks.

May as well just go all out and wave some money at Ron Atkinson see if he fancies it.
Title: Koeman out, Unsworth in.
Post by: Normm on October 02, 2017, 04:25:58 AM
Unsworth brings players on to show great promise, according to their strengths. His players learn to play as a team and link up to great effect. There is nothing to be lost in giving him a chance to turn Everton around. By January, we should know. He deserves his promotion.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on October 02, 2017, 04:30:05 AM
Moshiris mate has tweeted

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914601425946193923
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on October 02, 2017, 04:32:12 AM
https://twitter.com/jimwhite/status/914601425946193923

Oh fuck off
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: terrydarracotsbaldpate on October 02, 2017, 04:38:05 AM
We lack genuine pace. w
Who was that lad in a tracky on the bench? It looked like Lookman, but it couldn't have been because even Mike Bassett would have realised he should've been given a run out today.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on October 02, 2017, 04:38:45 AM
Dats it den as they say in certain parts. Mr Mosh has spoken. Ronald is going nowhere, except possibly to bed in a bad mood.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on October 02, 2017, 04:43:04 AM
Moshiris mate has tweeted

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914601425946193923
Is there a no like button ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 04:46:10 AM
Another season down the swannie then. Whatever happened to the 'finite window', Moshiri?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 04:51:20 AM
To be fair most managers get more time than fans are asking for. I'm not really pro or anti Koeman right now but I can see the sense in sticking with him at least for now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on October 02, 2017, 04:51:59 AM
Another season down the swannie then. Whatever happened to the 'finite window', Moshiri?
[/quote
Not a big fan of a lot of what moshiri has done tbh
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 02, 2017, 04:52:53 AM
I wonder if Moshiri would like to address the Everton fans directly instead of constantly using Jim White as a conduit. It's classless.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on October 02, 2017, 04:53:37 AM
I wonder if Moshiri would like to address the Everton fans directly instead of constantly using Jim White as a conduit. It's classless.
Feels really small time.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on October 02, 2017, 04:54:48 AM
Moshiris mate has tweeted

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914601425946193923

Ugh, he might as well have said "what a manager!" 😔
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 04:54:59 AM
Not a big fan of a lot of what moshiri has done tbh

I am. Miles better than the previous regime. Just disagree with Moshiri on this matter.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 04:56:26 AM
When things go well Moshiri using White is a masterstroke. When it goes badly it's classless or embarrassing.

All owners are embarrassing though in different ways.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 02, 2017, 05:01:28 AM
When things go well Moshiri using White is a masterstroke. When it goes badly it's classless or embarrassing.

All owners are embarrassing though in different ways.

I can understand at times Moshiri using Jim White to give an interview on Talksport or on Sky Sports. But it seems the vast majority of the time, he uses Jim White to air his thoughts on Everton rather than speak more directly to the fans except at the odd AGM or evertonTV when we win a cup tie against a big team.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Tony Clifton on October 02, 2017, 05:06:12 AM
Moshiris mate has tweeted

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914601425946193923

Hopefully that's the old "vote of confidence" being dusted off.

I don't like the thought of us chopping another manager so soon, but I'm struggling badly for positives with this man.  He's the polar opposite of Martinez.  One bad extreme to the other.  I voted Christmas, but now I want him gone before Halloween.  I'll even dress up as him (IT) for the party and enjoy my favourite "holiday" even more than usual.  He's become my fucking Pennywise this man.  Fuck him and his alehouse freekicks for Barca back in the day. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kramer0 on October 02, 2017, 05:07:12 AM
Frustrating but not surprising.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: nwatson on October 02, 2017, 05:07:23 AM
 :Horse: I can't put up with another 18 months of this crap. I don't believe he,'ll turn it around. He has sucked the life out of the club. I'm done.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 05:11:36 AM
Couldn't give a toss about the Jim White thing. More bothered about the substantive decision making (like retaining the manager) and how that affects the club going forward.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Gash on October 02, 2017, 05:12:04 AM
It's not surprising, Moshiri was the one that wanted him, he's not going to sack him after seven games.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on October 02, 2017, 05:12:30 AM
Unfortunately we're going to wait until we're out of all the important stuff.

We might get something at Brighton in a couple of weeks in the league. We'll then draw with Lyon at home, lose to Arsenal at home, get knocked out of the league cup at Chelsea and then we'll get battered by Lyon in France and he'll get sacked.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ridge on October 02, 2017, 05:20:01 AM
I thought we look impressive when Unsworth took charge before, took a team bereft of confidence and got them playing very quickly. He knows the club, the players, and has had a good view of the problems. If you're going to develop coaches or players you have to test the water at some point. I was worried we would appoint him last time, this time he'd be my preference and hope he proves he deserves job long term.

He knows the youngsters he can bring through, the dynamics and connections you can start to build around. Any new manager has got a difficult job assembling a collection of players into a team. Unsworth gives us time to consider alternative options and see what he can do, if it doesn't improve things we can get someone else.

Koeman has reintroduced a fear of bigger clubs, but this season we've looked terrible against opponents we should be beating and performances had been getting worse. We don't look capable of creating anything and I thought the situation was bad last season.

I'd be happy enough with Marco Silva failing that, but see it as a matter of time now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: D_murph0278 on October 02, 2017, 05:38:35 AM
Unfortunately we're going to wait until we're out of all the important stuff.

We might get something at Brighton in a couple of weeks in the league. We'll then draw with Lyon at home, lose to Arsenal at home, get knocked out of the league cup at Chelsea and then we'll get battered by Lyon in France and he'll get sacked.

You know what, that's exactly what'll happen. Either way, only Everton could get the financial backing the club have been wanting for years, and then go and fuck it all up in the space of 18 months.
As for Koeman, the team have never played to any sort of style or balance since he's been there. He just had the 7th best squad of players at his disposal and a bloke who scored 20 + for him.
His handling of Barkley, Niasse and Lookman also, has been shocking to say the least. It's coming back to bite him on the arse in a big way though now. The arrogant Dutch fucker.
Get rid, get Unsy in for the remainder of the season and see where team spirit, attacking intent and man management takes us.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on October 02, 2017, 05:46:24 AM
Unsworth is a fucking youth coach you gang of head the balls
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: D_murph0278 on October 02, 2017, 05:53:35 AM
Unsworth is a fucking youth coach you gang of head the balls

Youth? As in under 23's??
What are you getting at???
We went down the proven international big ego track last time and look at us now. Or maybe you want Big Sam or Brendan Rodgers in.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: kewns23 on October 02, 2017, 05:57:19 AM
Unsworth is a fucking youth coach you gang of head the balls


Mate they've all got to start somewhere
The only saying give him a chance!

Fuck we keep going for these so called great managers and they turn out shite

Why not give unsy a chance he's done well at youth level!!

I would rather have a hungry manager trying to prove than an over hill big bollocks who thinks the better than the club!!

It may not work with unsy even so I won't someone no ones heard off
Like silva when he came to hull
No one new fuck he was!!

At least with unsworth he's been here and knows the team!!
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Shogun on October 02, 2017, 06:06:07 AM
There's no sure-thing test to prove whether a potential manager is good enough or not, just as there isn't for a player.

Ross Barkley was shite at Leeds on loan but it doesn't mean he wasn't going to make it as a Premier League player.
Tom Davies didn't even go out on loan but took his chance and proved he was Premier League quality.

We have the opportunity to give Unsworth that platform to see if he's good enough and he couldn't have done anything more in his current position to earn that chance.

Of course Ancellotti or Tuchel should be priority but it's also unlikely.

If Unsworth fails (and it's very unlikely he'd be so disastrous we ended up relegated) then hold off until the end of the season when other managers are available.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 06:34:24 AM
has anybody seen this?


Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:43:31 AM
has anybody seen this?


Yeah Koeman's pathetic mate
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on October 02, 2017, 06:47:10 AM
has anybody seen this?




Did Sharpy say "unfortunately"?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 06:53:51 AM
Did Sharpy say "unfortunately"?

LOL

almost as bad as Koemans perfect defeat comment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 07:09:42 AM
Sharp didn't have to say owt the look on his face was saying it all....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ridge on October 02, 2017, 08:07:49 AM
I really wouldn't be surprised if he went tomorrow, he got a better performance in first half hour, but the goal removed hope. We don't have that creative player with individual quality? I agree, but Koeman had opportunity to make priority or address, I think once he goes from blaming it on the players he inherited, to ones bought under his tenure or the ones not bought under his tenure, he's really taking the piss.

I think he was generally trying to be more overly positive about performance and players. But you just can't sit around with £140m players and blame a lack of creativity, options or quality. If Koeman's priority was creativity or a goalscorer, or he had a problem with the business, he's waited until the wrong time to realise it or make it known.

I think Kenwright has been loyal to managers, and him and Moshiri took a while to get rid of Martinez, but I think we are in similar territory despite differing timescales. They will recognise the situation and know that it's becoming near impossible for him to be able to turn it around, and the level of fan anger, so why persist when clearly a major problem long term.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 02, 2017, 08:56:31 AM
It would be interesting (to me) whether the next permanent manager conditions their acceptance on ending the Rooney experiment. Not like he is the only problem, but building your attack around him makes no sense whatsoever, and the end result speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Confucius on October 02, 2017, 09:58:40 AM
Am right in thinking he was your favourite player as well?

That must hurt man


Like you can't believe. Idolized him growing up and modelled myself on him. Was a CB who could always kick the hardest and took all the free kicks etc etc. Just not a fan of him as our manager from day 1. He doesn't get us. He shouldn't be here. Martinez understood us and got us. He has his failings but while he was here, he was one of us.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 12:57:09 PM
I thought we look impressive when Unsworth took charge before, took a team bereft of confidence and got them playing very quickly.

He managed us for 1 game in a dead rubber against an already relegated team, who frankly didn't want to be there, on the final day of the season.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Sir Stealth on October 02, 2017, 01:53:52 PM
Unfortunately we're going to wait until we're out of all the important stuff.

We might get something at Brighton in a couple of weeks in the league. We'll then draw with Lyon at home, lose to Arsenal at home, get knocked out of the league cup at Chelsea and then we'll get battered by Lyon in France and he'll get sacked.

Wouldn't be too surprised if this happens, though I'm not overly confident about getting something against Brighton or Lyon😂

All I want is us to be successful and to win regularly to cheer me up!

Winning those 5 would certainly be a start. Just really can't see that happening though. The line up and team set up/formation seems nowhere near settled or working and so many players seem low on confidence and not willing to step it up

Only real positive seems to be Calvert-Lewin and Pickford.Other players have been ok in bits

The confidence of the new signings seems to be shot. Keane, Sandro and Klaassen look like they aren't enjoying their time here at the moment

Schneiderlin, Gana and Williams seem out of sorts. The decline of Baines is becoming more and more noticeable and apart from the young players, the squad feels to be considerably weaker than I thought it was at the start of the season

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on October 02, 2017, 02:05:05 PM

Youth? As in under 23's??
What are you getting at???
We went down the proven international big ego track last time and look at us now. Or maybe you want Big Sam or Brendan Rodgers in.

He's a great fella and he's as Everton as you can get but didn't someone say the other day he hasn't even got his full coaching badges?

A couple of years at U23 level doesn't qualify someone to coach a prem team, surely anyone can see that.

Being completely honest I think it would be a joke if we give him it, but if we do I would of course be 100% behind him and would love it to work. I just think we need something more on his CV than simply 'he's everton'.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 02:08:16 PM
A couple of years at U23 level doesn't qualify someone to coach a prem team, surely anyone can see that.

Apparently not according to this forum
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 02:16:30 PM
has anybody seen this?




Very interesting...would.still prefer unsworth over Dyche but see the point.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 02:22:15 PM
If it's a choice.of.koeman till the end of the season. Or unsworth until manager X is available at the end of the season. Which would you want?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 02:24:07 PM
He's a great fella and he's as Everton as you can get but didn't someone say the other day he hasn't even got his full coaching badges?

A couple of years at U23 level doesn't qualify someone to coach a prem team, surely anyone can see that.

Being completely honest I think it would be a joke if we give him it, but if we do I would of course be 100% behind him and would love it to work. I just think we need something more on his CV than simply 'he's everton'.

As has been pointed out before, he does have more than 'he's Everton' on his CV.

The two main criteria he is judged on are 'are you graduating young players into the first team?' - an overwhelming yes, and 'how are you performing in your league?' - he won it.

You also referred to him earlier as a 'youth coach'. He's the U23s team manager, overseeing that entire age group, picking teams, organising tactics, dealing with players' problems, managing people, dealing with media at times. He's not just some muppet who puts a couple of cones out twice a week.

Fair enough, you're not a fan of the idea but you're misrepresenting his duties and level of responsibility to suit your argument.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on October 02, 2017, 02:31:54 PM
I hate the phrase ' lost the dressing room ' but looking at the sidelines yesterday ( which was as exciting as what was happening on the pitch ) Koeman had the look of an unloved Christmas pooch . Nobody seems to be putting it in for him at all and the only rational conclusion is he is far from popular even with players he has just signed . Interesting to find out what Mane , Pele , Tadic and a few others think of him . Martina loves him though .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: dazfrancis on October 02, 2017, 02:47:39 PM
has anybody seen this?




Did Koeman actually say we don't have any creative players?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 02:50:50 PM
Probably.meant they cannot be creative in this quagmire of a system because it's fucking dire.....just lost in translation ...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Waltzer on October 02, 2017, 02:59:57 PM
If it's a choice.of.koeman till the end of the season. Or unsworth until manager X is available at the end of the season. Which would you want?

Keep Koeman. I honestly think a majority of the problem is we dont have a striker. The game yesterday was crying out for someone to hold the ball up, it never happened. DCL tried but neither he, nor Niasse gave anything. They both pretty much stood centrally with little movement.
I do think there are other issues too and I dont know if its due to the influx of players but Baines really doesnt look interested and was a shadow of his former self yesterday. He lost the ball and there was little to know effort to get back. Its a bit of a shambles but the midfield and defence have no 'out ball' which means they generally have to go back which then creates frustration in the crowd.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on October 02, 2017, 03:03:10 PM
As has been pointed out before, he does have more than 'he's Everton' on his CV.

The two main criteria he is judged on are 'are you graduating young players into the first team?' - an overwhelming yes, and 'how are you performing in your league?' - he won it.

You also referred to him earlier as a 'youth coach'. He's the U23s team manager, overseeing that entire age group, picking teams, organising tactics, dealing with players' problems, managing people, dealing with media at times. He's not just some muppet who puts a couple of cones out twice a week.

Fair enough, you're not a fan of the idea but you're misrepresenting his duties and level of responsibility to suit your argument.

I actually think I'm underegging it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on October 02, 2017, 03:03:31 PM
Wouldn't be too surprised if this happens, though I'm not overly confident about getting something against Brighton or Lyon😂

All I want is us to be successful and to win regularly to cheer me up!

Winning those 5 would certainly be a start. Just really can't see that happening though. The line up and team set up/formation seems nowhere near settled or working and so many players seem low on confidence and not willing to step it up

Only real positive seems to be Calvert-Lewin and Pickford.Other players have been ok in bits

The confidence of the new signings seems to be shot. Keane, Sandro and Klaassen look like they aren't enjoying their time here at the moment

Schneiderlin, Gana and Williams seem out of sorts. The decline of Baines is becoming more and more noticeable and apart from the young players, the squad feels to be considerably weaker than I thought it was at the start of the season
Agree with this mostly however I think some are overating what pickford and dcl have brought to the table. For me they've been average at best but because of how bad we 've been people are jumping on the bandwagon.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on October 02, 2017, 03:13:40 PM
We look shot to pieces.

Better shape and personnel yesterday, and we were the better side until we conceded, but their goal highlighted how fragile and sapped of any confidence our players are.

This has to be a failing of the management and coaching.

I also think we would've had more joy in those opening 20 minutes if Vlasic and Niasse had gone really out wide instead of tucking in (especially on the left, because Baines has severe vertigo if he gets too high up the pitch these days) 

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Escla on October 02, 2017, 03:44:45 PM
Agree with this mostly however I think some are overating what pickford and dcl have brought to the table. For me they've been average at best but because of how bad we 've been people are jumping on the bandwagon.

Agree with all that Stealth said and also your point about DCL but Pickford is a considerable upgrade on what we had.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ramjam on October 02, 2017, 03:53:55 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171002/e6f19f1e139517bd54f8314909ea7072.jpg)

Jim has spoken
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on October 02, 2017, 03:59:25 PM
Agree with all that Stealth said and also your point about DCL but Pickford is a considerable upgrade on what we had.

At the minute Pickford doesn't actually look that much better than Robles and sticking Stek on the bench ahead of Joel is a kcik in the nuts as he is clearly better than Stek . Pickford is much better at diving but there are glaring errors in his game which need ironing out before the goal against count starts to dent his obvious confidence . He is deffo the future if that happens but he could so easily end up like a lot of one season shot stoppers from lower clubs .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: van der Meyde on October 02, 2017, 04:06:37 PM
We're not gonna win a cup with or without Koeman.

We're gonna finish in the top half with of without Koeman.

We'll possibly revert to our mean a little quicker if he was sacked, but there are loads of questions either way.

Sacking Martinez before the United semi would have made sense because there was a serious chance of a trophy at stake. We were the second best team left in the competition with two games to play. We're not close to that with either the Europa League or the League Cup.

I'd just like the decision to be made with a long term view. Walsh and Koeman both need looking at, the decision-making structure in place needs to be addressed first.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Waltzer on October 02, 2017, 04:34:16 PM
Like him or loath him I think this pretty much sums it up:

Joey Barton insists Everton’s failure to replace Romelu Lukaku is ‘outrageous’.

The Belgian striker moved to Manchester United in the summer for a reported fee of £75million, but the Toffees have struggled without their former talisman and have scored just four goals in seven Premier League games so far this season to leave them languishing only two points above the relegation shown.

And Barton claims someone at the club needs to take responsibility for not investing a large part of that transfer cash in a like-for-like replacement.

“How Everton have sold him and not had somebody in the No.9 jersey come in and replace him is just outrageous,” Barton said on the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast.

“Somebody, somewhere within the club is culpable for that. Do I believe that’s Ronald Koeman? No, I don’t, because he was clearly asked in interviews about what he needed before the window closed and he highlighted that position. I really feel sorry for Koeman because his hands were tied.”

The Dutchman is now the bookies’ favourite to be the next Premier League manager to be sacked, but Barton says he would stick with the former Southampton boss.

He added: “I think Koeman is a good manager and, given time and resources, I think he would get the right blend. And obviously if you’re going to replace him, who would you replace him with?

“I heard noises about Carlo Ancelotti coming in, but what’s he going to do with that side? He still needs a centre-forward, he still needs a centre-half, he’s still got an issue at right-back.

“I wouldn’t take it if I was Ancelotti. You’ve just managed Chelsea, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern Munich… why would you want the Everton job?”

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 04:35:23 PM
To sack him we'd need to get hold of him and I imagine he's already in Portugal now on the golf course. The bloke couldn't give a flying fuck about Everton and I think it's this indifference that has never endeared him to fans. He was quite open at the start that this was just a short term job to him, hopefully to get him to the upper levels of management. In which case he's majorly fluffed the biggest and most lucrative gig of his career to date so hopefully his ego and reputation have been dented even if his bank balance hasn't.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on October 02, 2017, 04:36:21 PM
Gosh, pearls of wisdom from our Joey. Maybe we should hire him as a consultant or Director of Football?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on October 02, 2017, 04:38:22 PM
At the minute Pickford doesn't actually look that much better than Robles and sticking Stek on the bench ahead of Joel is a kcik in the nuts as he is clearly better than Stek . Pickford is much better at diving but there are glaring errors in his game which need ironing out before the goal against count starts to dent his obvious confidence . He is deffo the future if that happens but he could so easily end up like a lot of one season shot stoppers from lower clubs .

What a load of shite.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Waltzer on October 02, 2017, 04:42:17 PM
Gosh, pearls of wisdom from our Joey. Maybe we should hire him as a consultant or Director of Football?
908=
Gosh, pearls of wisdom from our Joey. Maybe we should hire him as a consultant or Director of Football?

Maybe we should? hes basically given the major reason why were floundering so much, clearly this is something our current Director of Football failed to identify.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 04:43:37 PM
908=
Maybe we should? hes basically given ONE OF the major reasonS why were floundering so much, clearly this is something our current Director of Football failed to identify.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Waltzer on October 02, 2017, 04:46:46 PM
Fixed.


True, I think our recruitment, or lack of plan is the major issue. I think there are more than one person to blame for this but Walsh has to take the blunt of this in my eyes. As Director of Football most decisions go through him and hes failed to deliver big time.
Koeman has to take some blame but you cant polish a turd
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 04:52:23 PM
908=
Maybe we should? hes basically given the major reason why were floundering so much, clearly this is something our current Director of Football failed to identify.

He didn't think it all up himself though did he? And he's about six weeks behind everyone else on here saying it. He's about as insightful as a Phil Neville through ball
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 02, 2017, 04:53:04 PM
Get Moshiri out too

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914781876585418752
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 04:55:39 PM
True, I think our recruitment, or lack of plan is the major issue. I think there are more than one person to blame for this but Walsh has to take the blunt of this in my eyes. As Director of Football most decisions go through him and hes failed to deliver big time.
Koeman has to take some blame but you cant polish a turd

Hardly a turd. As I have said on another thread, there is more than enough talent in that side to be playing better than they are. A lot better.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 04:56:38 PM
Get Moshiri out too

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914781876585418752

Unless we see that as a dreaded vote of confidence. In which case I'm okay with it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Waltzer on October 02, 2017, 04:57:32 PM
He didn't think it all up himself though did he? And he's about six weeks behind everyone else on here saying it. He's about as insightful as a Phil Neville through ball

I think were failing to see the point that were all agreeing on, who, what, where, when is all irrelevant. Everyone and there dog knew what we needed and the board and our Director of Football failed to deliver, now were having debates about whether the manager needs to go because of their incompetence. Moshiri covers a lot of the failing up but the crux is that were the same Everton, just with a bit more money now, behind the scenes were still a bit of a shambles which isnt surprising as little as changed.

Im starting to lose a bit of faith in Koeman (but I still want him to stay) but hes played every striker we have and numerous formations, but in my opinion they're not good enough and there is only a certain amount he can do.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Jamokachi on October 02, 2017, 04:57:35 PM
Get Moshiri out too

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914781876585418752

nothing wrong with that statement though, as much as you may not like to hear it
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on October 02, 2017, 05:00:03 PM
Nah, surely he should be coming out saying we should be doing better given the money we've spent?

Doesn't really smack of ambition, does it?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 02, 2017, 05:02:13 PM
Nah, surely he should be coming out saying we should be doing better given the money we've spent?

Doesn't really smack of ambition, does it?

Exactly.... fucking shit excuses. Lets face it, everyone at the club are pussies.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Sir Stealth on October 02, 2017, 05:02:39 PM
I'm 99.9% sure that the guy who talks to Jim White and says he's Moshiri isn't actually him

It's an epic prank that's being played
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 05:05:19 PM
I think were failing to see the point that were all agreeing on, who, what, where, when is all irrelevant. Everyone and there dog knew what we needed and the board and our Director of Football failed to deliver, now were having debates about whether the manager needs to go because of their incompetence. Moshiri covers a lot of the failing up but the crux is that were the same Everton, just with a bit more money now, behind the scenes were still a bit of a shambles which isnt surprising as little as changed.

Im starting to lose a bit of faith in Koeman (but I still want him to stay) but hes played every striker we have and numerous formations, but in my opinion they're not good enough and there is only a certain amount he can do.

Avoiding defeat at home to Burnley and beating a bunch of Cypriot part-timers is a little more than 'there's only a certain amount he can do.'
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 05:08:53 PM
So the total shitfest we watch instead of a style.of football is ok?
The lack of a quality forward,  the over abundance of #10 s is Ok?
The fucking dipstick Williams playing every week despitebeing shit is ok ?

Being bottom of our European group is ok?  While being embarrassed by a bunch of part timers?

Okey fucking dokey then....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Waltzer on October 02, 2017, 05:09:22 PM
Avoiding defeat at home to Burnley is a little more than 'there's only a certain amount he can do.'

But it emphasis the failings more. I think we had 63% possession, the midfielders spent most of the game with their hands out looking for options from the strikers but there is nothing.
Burnely were well organised but offered little, it was reminiscent of watching Wimbledon a few years back and as soon as they got a lead they just sat deep and punted long for Wood. We are toothless and nothing stuck up front
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 05:11:53 PM
One man and his team has us all with either our heads up our arses, bickering or just  a matter of us giving up all hope whatsoever.

Everton aren’t we. 😕
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Macca77 on October 02, 2017, 05:20:45 PM
Mental and physical fatigue eh

Other teams don't seem to have that problem
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 05:30:45 PM
Mental and physical fatigue eh

Other teams don't seem to have that problem

Who said that, Koeman?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ross on October 02, 2017, 05:33:08 PM
Mental and physical fatigue eh

Other teams don't seem to have that problem

Little wonder Koeman isn't feeling any pressure when the owner is handing out excuses like that really.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 02, 2017, 05:33:45 PM
Who said that, Koeman?

Moshiri....

Get Moshiri out too

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914781876585418752
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 05:38:40 PM
Moshiri....


‘Kinell.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 05:38:59 PM
Still have no idea why a seemingly reclusive billionaire football club majority-shareholder would give a balloon like Jim White the time of day, never mind confide the innermost workings of the club to him for public broadcast
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 05:39:58 PM
No, don't get Moshiri out. He's spent money, made big progress on the new ground, binned Martinez and been loads better than the previous regime generally. Let's not lose our collective shit, and throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 02, 2017, 05:44:15 PM
No, don't get Moshiri out. He's spent money, made big progress on the new ground, binned Martinez and been loads better than the previous regime generally. Let's not lose our collective shit, and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

He is a coward. I have thrown the baby out already and im crying at my decision.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Django on October 02, 2017, 05:44:50 PM
Really find Moshiri an absolute oddity if I'm honest. He's improved the club ten fold, don't get me wrong and he was much needed.

Just can't get my head around his way of doing things. All this Jim White stuff is just nonsense.

Can't believe it's this bad this quickly. International breaks haven't even ended yet.

Koeman, Van Gaal, De Boer have all been found out IMO, boring dutch football has been left behind.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 05:47:24 PM
He is a coward. I have thrown the baby out already and im crying at my decision.

'Like' for the joke, not the first statement, which is nonsense in my opinion. A coward would've sat on the Arsenal board and watched the cheques roll in.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 02, 2017, 05:49:01 PM
'Like' for the joke, not the first statement, which is nonsense in my opinion. A coward would've sat on the Arsenal board and watched the cheques roll in.

mental and physical fatigue? what, 10 games in? absolute fucking joke that is.

EDIT: I dont actually want him out, im just saying we have cowards in  the boardroom, cowards on the pitch....im fucking fed up of watching them.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 02, 2017, 05:54:10 PM
Really find Moshiri an absolute oddity if I'm honest. He's improved the club ten fold, don't get me wrong and he was much needed.

Just can't get my head around his way of doing things. All this Jim White stuff is just nonsense.

Can't believe it's this bad this quickly. International breaks haven't even ended yet.

Koeman, Van Gaal, De Boer have all been found out IMO, boring dutch football has been left behind.
You think we,d have learned harsh lessons with Atteveld,Heitinga and those lovable steaming piles of shite in Shandy and Drenthe
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 05:56:43 PM
mental and physical fatigue? what, 10 games in? absolute fucking joke that is.

EDIT: I dont actually want him out, im just saying we have cowards in  the boardroom, cowards on the pitch....im fucking fed up of watching them.

We might disagree but Moshiri might just want to back his man, the first manager he's appointed in his first crisis.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on October 02, 2017, 06:01:26 PM
You think we,d have learned harsh lessons with Atteveld,Heitinga and those lovable steaming piles of shite in Shandy and Drenthe

klaa....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Martip on October 02, 2017, 06:06:16 PM
What a load of shite.
Care to explain why you feel that to be the case ? I agree with the post as I can't see hes done anything yet to suggest he s much of an upgrade. I hope he will be but he s not proving a gamechanger atm so i cant see how anyone can say he is ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 02, 2017, 06:08:16 PM
klaa....
I know mate...wanted too, but just couldnt bring myself to type it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 06:09:11 PM
What a load of shite.

Is it? He hasn't really cost us goals but he's flapping at stuff, mispunching crosses and his distribution is very hit and miss. People seem to want to cling to any piece of hope but he's been average and DCL has been less than that
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 06:15:31 PM
Is it? He hasn't really cost us goals but he's flapping at stuff, mispunching crosses and his distribution is very hit and miss. People seem to want to cling to any piece of hope but he's been average and DCL has been less than that

He won us points against Stoke and Bournemouth with two massive saves at 1-0 up and 1-0 down.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 06:15:44 PM
Do we think Walsh had free reign to bring in a striker and failed. The impression I get is that he was working from a very short list approved by koeman. Not sure how it's his responsibility if no one on koemans list wants to play here

We need to make a decision on DOF. Either we get rid and let koeman sign the players or we keep the position and give koeman less say on who we sign. I think currently almost all our larger buys are at koemans insistence
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 06:17:46 PM
He won us points against Stoke and Bournemouth with two massive saves at 1-0 up and 1-0 down.

He's done okay. He's also looked pretty shaky at times too. I'm not slating him but the new Neville southall shouts seem a little ott at the minute. Same with DCL. He's worked hard. Done okay. 1 goal and he's the new Harry Kane

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 06:19:21 PM
He's done okay. He's also looked pretty shaky at times too. I'm not slating him but the new Neville southall shouts seem a little ott at the minute. Same with DCL. He's worked hard. Done okay. 1 goal and he's the new Harry Kane



No one thinks either of those things. Straw men.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 06:20:49 PM
No one thinks either of those things. Straw men.

I've seen both said on here. We had a thread asking if DCL was our Harry Kane. We had 1 poster who I forget who implied he was the worlds best young player.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 06:21:50 PM
No one thinks either of those things. Straw men.

Someone made a thread about Pickford being the 'new Southall' on here to be fair to Koemansnumbertens
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: TheRam on October 02, 2017, 06:22:12 PM
And you bring it up every fucking day you bore
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: brap2 on October 02, 2017, 06:22:16 PM
Don't think Koeman could have been clearer re:needing a striker.

Not going to guess about the process, as I say it's impossible to infer the working relationship and anyone doing so is chatting wham.

Re: Dutch managers, who was the last good one? Why're all a decade out of date.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 06:24:27 PM
I've seen both said on here. We had a thread asking if DCL was our Harry Kane. We had 1 poster who I forget who implied he was the worlds best young player.

So you're quoting random people with insanely exaggerated opinions, and addressing those opinions as though they are widely held by the fanbase. Straw men.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 06:25:57 PM
He needs more than a striker, he needs to get his team to attack, or even play half decent football and learn to defend..

also instill some belief in the players, they need to be working a lot harder, regardless of being a footballer, even if your shit. you still should be working your ass off, not standing still.

thats down to the manager; not being able to motivate / implement his ideas on to the players.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Hawkandro on October 02, 2017, 06:49:04 PM
Really find Moshiri an absolute oddity if I'm honest. He's improved the club ten fold, don't get me wrong and he was much needed.

Just can't get my head around his way of doing things. All this Jim White stuff is just nonsense.

Can't believe it's this bad this quickly. International breaks haven't even ended yet.

Koeman, Van Gaal, De Boer have all been found out IMO, boring dutch football has been left behind.

I have to agree mate. He has done good stuff for us like wipe the debt out, reinvigorate the stadium, hopefully get the new stadium in place and such, but both statements to White (McCarthy and this one) and that interview he gave have been embarrassing.

These statements need to be better thought out, and they need to be made through the official website. Cringeworthy it all comes out through a fucking Sky Sports News presenter.

The statement itself too is worrying. You can understand he may be trying to ease the pressure on Koeman, as he is his pet project, but it paints us as nothing more than plucky underdogs, which is the tag we were supposed to have shaken off as part of this '3 year plan'.

I can only imagine the 3 year plan has also changed now, from breaking into the Top 4 to signing a FUCKING STRIKER.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 07:00:35 PM
And you bring it up every fucking day you bore

Who?
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: cantoffee on October 02, 2017, 07:01:29 PM
Doesn't know his best formation, doesn't know his best tactics, doesn't know his best style, and doesn't know his best 11.

I really am not sure how bringing someone else in would put us in a worse position at the moment. I think he doesn't know how to build a team and although Walsh may have to take some blame for the recruitment it's clear he got the players he wants for the most part but doesn't know what to do now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on October 02, 2017, 07:03:12 PM
Don't get the wrong idea here as I never wanted Koeman in the first place....

breaking the game down yesterday....for me It was probably the best we've played for some time....and again don't get me wrong i'm not saying it was acceptable....but certainly better...

Where have we got to under RK ? We've gone from expecting to beat burnley at home....to hoping we don't get beat by burnley at home....says it all....

However, it could have been very different yesterday if we'd have taken our early chances before they scored...could've/should've been at least 2 up...which shows our deficiencies at the top end of the pitch....

they effectively had 1 decent effort on goal and scored...it happens when your at the bottom end of the league...
my issues with the goal...we dropped in too deep in our own box...(Williams) which played them onside...
schneiderlin effectively run past the man with the ball....instead of standing tall and stopping him coming inside
what was he doing unmarked in our box......?
shows our deficiencies at the other end of the pitch.....

Is it Koemans job to sort this out? on the pitch yes deffinately...should he be sacked right now....i'm not so sure..

why do we need a DoF ? because it's the "in thing" at the moment in football to have one...what do they do ? Christ knows....they were initially introduced to sort out the academies and the development side of the club....now they seem to have progressed to a major role within the club....

do managers like having a DoF..or like working with a DoF ? I haven't met one yet who does...

final point...Unsworth as I've stated previously he cannot take over as he hasn't got his Pro licence which is  a must to manage in the prem...he can take "temporary charge" for a game or so... but not permanent charge ie the rest of the season....

Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 07:20:08 PM
So you're quoting random people with insanely exaggerated opinions, and addressing those opinions as though they are widely held by the fanbase. Straw men.

I think there's a common belief both have done infinitely better than they have been. Pickford has been average. DCL quite a bit short of average. It's a pretty common opinion on here that they are both a bit special. DCL isn't currently good enough to be playing top flight football
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on October 02, 2017, 07:33:02 PM
I think there's a common belief both have done infinitely better than they have been. Pickford has been average. DCL quite a bit short of average. It's a pretty common opinion on here that they are both a bit special. DCL isn't currently good enough to be playing top flight football

TBF I think most people are giving them both a fair judgement...to say pickford has only been "average"....in a porr side isvery harsh on the lad.....what would you determine to be average then as in my head i'm thinking if he'd been performing above your average we probably wouldn't have lost as many games as we have or conceded as many goals....

Likewise with DCL..he's been thrown in at the deep end....which I quite like to happen....and I personally think he's coming up trumps...a couple of goals will see his performance levels go to the next level again....people say he's missed easy chances...then argue we don't create chances.....I say he'll eventually take those chances as his experience of premiership football grows...
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 02, 2017, 07:42:29 PM
I think there's a common belief both have done infinitely better than they have been. Pickford has been average. DCL quite a bit short of average. It's a pretty common opinion on here that they are both a bit special. DCL isn't currently good enough to be playing top flight football

That take on DCL is madness.  What he isn't good enough to do is CARRY A PREM SIDE with Top 6/7 aspirations, which is what we have defaulted to out of necessity.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 07:49:14 PM
I think there's a common belief both have done infinitely better than they have been. Pickford has been average. DCL quite a bit short of average. It's a pretty common opinion on here that they are both a bit special. DCL isn't currently good enough to be playing top flight football

We've won two games in the Prem. Without the Pickford saves from Shaqiri and Defoe those six points would be one point. That'll do for me.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on October 02, 2017, 07:51:03 PM
Its strange despite the blag multi accounts and different names you can spot the dirty rednose posting even amongst all the negative posts from the weekend 😅😅😅...its a big sore thumbstyle .
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 07:51:48 PM
That take on DCL is madness.  What he isn't good enough to do is CARRY A PREM SIDE with Top 6/7 aspirations, which is what we have defaulted to out of necessity.

He's been busy. Put himself about. Mainly though he's not done very much in most games and he's missed a few sitters. I'm not slagging him off. He's a decent enough prospect but that's all he is at the minute. I'd imagine pretty much every team in the league has a striker currently better than DCL which suggests he's probably not yet good enough to be a premier league player
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 07:52:41 PM
Its strange despite the blag multi accounts and different names you can spot the dirty rednose posting even amongst all the negative posts from the weekend 😅😅😅...its a big sore thumbstyle .

Do you mean me? I'm a proud owner of an Everton onesie which I'm happy to model for you when I get home
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 02, 2017, 07:56:05 PM
He's been busy. Put himself about. Mainly though he's not done very much in most games and he's missed a few sitters. I'm not slagging him off. He's a decent enough prospect but that's all he is at the minute. I'd imagine pretty much every team in the league has a striker currently better than DCL which suggests he's probably not yet good enough to be a premier league player

He'd be performing better without the weight of expectations, the #2 to somebody like Giroud.  Or apprenticing to Lukaku.  There's just a wide gulf between "not ready to be our sole attacking option" - because the alternatives are Rooney (wandering, declining), Niasse (impact sub at best), and Sandro (mystery box).

Personally, I'd play 4-4-2 with Sandro starting next to DCL so maybe sharing the load and responsibility helps each man.  Let them play into form until we can hopefully add in January.

Hopefully "Hammerin' Hank" Onyekuru gets here next season.  :D
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Major Clanger on October 02, 2017, 07:58:13 PM
Do you mean me? I'm a proud owner of an Everton onesie which I'm happy to model for you when I get home

I think we'll take your word for it, if it's all the same to you.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on October 02, 2017, 08:03:54 PM
He'd be performing better without the weight of expectations, the #2 to somebody like Giroud.  Or apprenticing to Lukaku.  There's just a wide gulf between "not ready to be our sole attacking option" - because the alternatives are Rooney (wandering, declining), Niasse (impact sub at best), and Sandro (mystery box).

Personally, I'd play 4-4-2 with Sandro starting next to DCL so maybe sharing the load and responsibility helps each man.  Let them play into form until we can hopefully add in January.

Hopefully "Hammerin' Hank" Onyekuru gets here next season.  :D

This...exactly this......please Ronald......
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 08:22:44 PM
I think we'll take your word for it, if it's all the same to you.

Probably wisest. I'd have to be seriously committed to this ruse to be red shite though. I'm on here every match day for the entire game. I know they are a bit deranged but who in their right mind would commit to watching our shite football for 80 hours a week just to annoy you lot
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on October 02, 2017, 09:10:38 PM
Do you mean me? I'm a proud owner of an Everton onesie which I'm happy to model for you when I get home

Do you live with gizzblue? 🤔
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 09:20:02 PM
I'm 99.9% sure that the guy who talks to Jim White and says he's Moshiri isn't actually him

It's an epic prank that's being played

We can but hope.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 09:24:24 PM
Mental and physical fatigue eh

Other teams don't seem to have that problem

Why is a chairman talking about mental and physical fatigue. At the start of October. For a squad that has had over £200m spent on it. This only underlines my suspicions that he hasn't got a clue about the football side of things but would like to give the impression he has.
 
He might know about how to run a successful and profitable business, how to gain finance at the top level, how to approach multi million pound projects. But understand the mind of a professional sportsman? Don't embarrass yourself.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 09:36:23 PM
Do you live with gizzblue? 🤔


Haha I was more gonna post a pic. I guess he could come round if he really wanted to though
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: formerKHL on October 02, 2017, 09:38:06 PM
i suspect because he's spent over 200million of his own cash on them..
he naturally thinks he does have a right...and he does think he knows what he's talking about...
after all his best buddy is jim white....
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Django on October 02, 2017, 09:54:26 PM
The two holding midfielders are doing Koeman absolutely no favours either. How 2 clearly high class players can be deployed in holding midfield roles and allow the opposition to casually stroll into our box and have a free shot on goal is beyond me.

It's a travesty that we didn't sign another centre half when it was clear Funes wasn't going to be fit. Ashley Williams is diabolical at the best of times but it looks like his legs have completely gone now.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 09:54:51 PM
i suspect because he's spent over 200million of his own cash on them..
he naturally thinks he does have a right...and he does think he knows what he's talking about...
after all his best buddy is jim white....

No he hasn't
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 10:01:03 PM
The two holding midfielders are doing Koeman absolutely no favours either. How 2 clearly high class players can be deployed in holding midfield roles and allow the opposition to casually stroll into our box and have a free shot on goal is beyond me.

It's a travesty that we didn't sign another centre half when it was clear Funes wasn't going to be fit. Ashley Williams is diabolical at the best of times but it looks like his legs have completely gone now.

I'm pretty sure Koeman hasn't told Schneiderlin to become a coward and shy away from the ball, only to pass it simply sideways and backwards when he gets it. Yesterday there were plenty of opportunities for him to move to make space for the player on the ball, be bold, think offensively and spot a gap. He just stands there, thinking his role is to sit in a 15 yard radius in front of Williams and Keane and do nothing constructive.

We've turned into a team full of pussies, with no-one apart from Rooney looking like they want to take any responsibility. Rooney's problem is he takes too much, whereas Koeman should be telling him to stay up top so we maintain some sort of shape.

It's all just a bit of a mess really.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: sam of the south on October 02, 2017, 10:19:35 PM

Haha I was more gonna post a pic. I guess he could come round if he really wanted to though

@gizzblue (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=5771) you've pulled, man 😃
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: gizzblue on October 02, 2017, 10:26:52 PM
Eeeew no thanks ...my mummy warned me about naughty men on the net when I was 39
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 10:27:35 PM
i suspect because he's spent over 200million of his own cash on them..
he naturally thinks he does have a right...and he does think he knows what he's talking about...
after all his best buddy is jim white....

Listening to talksport earlier they said if we had sold barkley and niasse our net spend over 2 years wouldve been £0
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on October 02, 2017, 10:56:25 PM
Listening to talksport earlier they said if we had sold barkley and niasse our net spend over 2 years wouldve been £0

If I'd have won the lottery last weekend I'd be a millionaire now.

I didn't, so it's a complete non story.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: everton1952 on October 02, 2017, 11:19:23 PM
Koeman is going nowhere so pack this thread in. It has had its run.
Title: Re: Should we sack Koeman?
Post by: blueToffee on October 02, 2017, 11:22:02 PM