October 23, 2018, 02:02:32 PM

Author Topic: Lookman  (Read 38463 times)

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April 17, 2018, 02:26:46 AM
Reply #270
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Gash

Global Moderator
From November to January 5th (last game he played for us) he actually played in more games and scored the same amount of goals for us.

Was out the team in the few weeks before he made the transfer like, so I suppose he could still have ended getting more at RB. Never know if he would have worked his way back in.

Yeah, sorry, I meant league games. Obviously with his Europa appearances he's played more in total for us.


April 17, 2018, 03:35:46 AM
Reply #271
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blargins

NSNO Subscriber
Is Lookman a crappy finisher? Sample size is fairly small for Everton, both his goals for Leipzig were excellent finishes, and he had a decent strike rate for Charlton. Not saying his finishing has been amazing but lumping him in with Bolasie, who has failed to regularly score goals over the entirety of his career, seems unduly harsh. (I realize you make the point that Lookman has time on his side, but that does not really address my point.)
He’s had plenty of good chances when he’s played for us and sent most of them to the keepers legs.

I’d rather him in the team than Bolasie but he has a long way to go yet.
“The best way to not feel hopeless is to get up and do something. Don’t wait for good things to happen to you. If you go out and make some good things happen, you will fill the world with hope, you will fill yourself with hope.” Barack Obama

April 17, 2018, 08:29:46 AM
Reply #272
Online

howard1334


How many minutes has he played for then since signing?

Edit: I've just found out.

He's never completed 90 mins (as far as I can see).
He's started 3, come off the bench in 4 (usually last 15 mins).

Out of possible 990 mins he's played 270 minutes.

I'm not sure 'regularly' quite fits. 'Occasionally' might be more accurate.

He's not really playing any more for them than he was for us before he left.

Yeah, that definitely counts as playing regularly. It might not count as starting regularly, but that is not what I said. And, no, it is significantly more meaningful time than he was getting for us before he left.


April 17, 2018, 03:02:39 PM
Reply #273
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stirlingblue


Even if he did stay here and get minutes, playing under Allardyce’s dull, defensive style can’t be good for any youngsters development.

Minutes in the premier league do not automatically equal development

April 17, 2018, 03:24:56 PM
Reply #274
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Duncs_a_legend

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Yeah, that definitely counts as playing regularly. It might not count as starting regularly, but that is not what I said. And, no, it is significantly more meaningful time than he was getting for us before he left.

It's not though. He's getting the odd game. Barely the equivalent of 1 in 4 (in terms of minutes)

If you look at the facts, in the 2 1/2 months before he left he played in the exact same amount of games and scored the exact same amount of goals with us as he has with RB. He actually played more minutes with us and did play a full 90 minutes, that's including the 3 weeks or so that he was out of the team before he left on loan.

So he actually was playing more football here over the same period.


I'm not saying that would have continued (although Allardyce said publicly he didn't want him to go).
But there's a bit of nonsense being thrown out when people suggest he was not being played regularly here, but he is at RB.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 03:30:48 PM by Duncs_a_legend »
"I would never die for my beliefs...because I might be wrong"

April 17, 2018, 03:32:01 PM
Reply #275
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Lxxx


Bolasie is being unfairly treated. He is just back from a long term injury. He will be much much better next season.

He may be being unfairly singled out but I'm not as sure as you that his performances are guaranteed to go up a level next season.


April 17, 2018, 04:51:40 PM
Reply #276
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stirlingblue


He may be being unfairly singled out but I'm not as sure as you that his performances are guaranteed to go up a level next season.

He looks the most likely to make something happen at the minute

April 17, 2018, 05:42:17 PM
Reply #277
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Lxxx


He looks the most likely to make something happen at the minute

That fact in itself is depressing.

April 17, 2018, 09:46:28 PM
Reply #278
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howard1334


It's not though. He's getting the odd game. Barely the equivalent of 1 in 4 (in terms of minutes)

If you look at the facts, in the 2 1/2 months before he left he played in the exact same amount of games and scored the exact same amount of goals with us as he has with RB. He actually played more minutes with us and did play a full 90 minutes, that's including the 3 weeks or so that he was out of the team before he left on loan.

So he actually was playing more football here over the same period.


I'm not saying that would have continued (although Allardyce said publicly he didn't want him to go).
But there's a bit of nonsense being thrown out when people suggest he was not being played regularly here, but he is at RB.

You are equating his Europa league playing time with his playing time for Liepzig in the Bundesliga. They are not equivalent, especially considering the last few Europa league games were throw-away matches for us. And when you look at playing time in league, it becomes clear that Lookman is receiving more meaningful time now. Out of 17 premier league matches for Everton this season, Lookman started 1, was a substitute in 6, and did not play in 10 -- i.e., he received playing time in only 41% of Premier League matches. Out of 10 Bundesliga matches for Liepzig this season, Lookman has started 3, was a substitute in 4, and did not play in 3 -- i.e., he has received playing time in 70% of Bundesliga matches and, in 7 fewer matches, two more starts than he did in the Prem.

You obviously have a narrative you want to push. So we should probably just end this conversation now.

April 17, 2018, 09:58:42 PM
Reply #279
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Duncs_a_legend

NSNO Subscriber
You are equating his Europa league playing time with his playing time for Liepzig in the Bundesliga. They are not equivalent, especially considering the last few Europa league games were throw-away matches for us. And when you look at playing time in league, it becomes clear that Lookman is receiving more meaningful time now. Out of 17 premier league matches for Everton this season, Lookman started 1, was a substitute in 6, and did not play in 10 -- i.e., he received playing time in only 41% of Premier League matches. Out of 10 Bundesliga matches for Liepzig this season, Lookman has started 3, was a substitute in 4, and did not play in 3 -- i.e., he has received playing time in 70% of Bundesliga matches and, in 7 fewer matches, two more starts than he did in the Prem.

You obviously have a narrative you want to push. So we should probably just end this conversation now.

He's been at RB for around 11 weeks and in the 11 weeks prior to leaving us he played in the same amount of games. 5 Prem games, 1 Europa league game and 1 FA cup game which was against Liverpool.

1 Europa league game was a dead rubber, that's about it.

I'd say playing in a derby is quite a meaningful game.

Only narrative is the one that we have somehow overseen some emerging talent and not offered him the same playing time as RB, when in fact it's pretty similar.

As I've said, no one knows if he would have broken in to the team more, hopefully RB start to play him regularly.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 10:06:03 PM by Duncs_a_legend »
"I would never die for my beliefs...because I might be wrong"

April 17, 2018, 10:12:36 PM
Reply #280
Online

howard1334


He's been at RB for around 11 weeks and in the 11 weeks prior to leaving us he played in the same amount of games. 5 Prem games, 1 Europa league game and 1 FA cup game which was against Liverpool.

1 Europa league game was a dead rubber, that's about it.

I'd say playing in a derby is quite a meaningful game.

Only narrative is the one that we have somehow overseen some emerging talent and not offered him the same playing time as RB, when in fact it's pretty similar.

As I've said, no one knows if he would have broken in to the team more, hopefully RB start to play him regularly.

...

April 17, 2018, 10:15:24 PM
Reply #281
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Duncs_a_legend

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"I would never die for my beliefs...because I might be wrong"

April 17, 2018, 10:39:05 PM
Reply #282
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KoemansNumberTens


He’s clearly not playing regularly. You don’t or at least shouldn’t go on loan to get similar minutes as he was getting here. There’s little benefit for the player and we’ve lost an option albeit 1 we used sparingly.
The move wasn’t a clever 1 for us or lookman. We actually should have been stronger and told him to either pick a club he’d be an important player for or stay here so we could get the benefit of his infrequent games

April 17, 2018, 10:43:38 PM
Reply #283
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Lxxx


He’s clearly not playing regularly. You don’t or at least shouldn’t go on loan to get similar minutes as he was getting here. There’s little benefit for the player and we’ve lost an option albeit 1 we used sparingly.
The move wasn’t a clever 1 for us or lookman. We actually should have been stronger and told him to either pick a club he’d be an important player for or stay here so we could get the benefit of his infrequent games

He'll be the better for the experience. However from next season he really needs to be racking up some serious playing time somewhere though, either with us or elsewhere.

April 17, 2018, 11:22:40 PM
Reply #284
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D15TIN


Bolasie is being unfairly treated. He is just back from a long term injury. He will be much much better next season.
Be interesting to see him under a different more attack minded manager, same with lookman