May 25, 2017, 01:46:41 PM

Author Topic: Banning The Sun from Goodison  (Read 3509 times)

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April 15, 2017, 06:49:17 PM
Reply #45
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MartinezsLeftTeste


Was never really in favour of banning. Why should we just because Liverpool did and especially as it was a quarter of a centry late. I do think this changes things though. Its another attack, its current and its on 1 of our players and utterly uncalled for. Happy we have now though in truth it really means fuck all.


April 15, 2017, 06:55:39 PM
Reply #46
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ally2


Complete shit rag don't get me wrong but it isn't racism ffs

April 15, 2017, 07:06:12 PM
Reply #47
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Bally

Administrator
Think it was about 2 years ago, I passed the interviews and all that, then they done that thing when they put us on the screen and the website with our names and how to vote, unfortunately I didn't get enough votes (which I kind of thought I wouldn't).
It was the first year they done it that way and that tosser was just trolling all the candidates, nothing abusive, just going back through old tweets and suggesting in some way that we weren't as much of an Evertonian as him. He's a sad cunt.
Was that the year I was first on the shortlist too or the year before
It's the roll I way


April 15, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
Reply #48
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blueToffee

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Complete shit rag don't get me wrong but it isn't racism ffs

I tend to agree as that would've meant there was some research going on into Barkley's heritage. Whereas this was just some small minded, regional biased rant without any pretence of journalistic standards. How something like that passed any sort of editor is amazing.

April 15, 2017, 07:08:37 PM
Reply #49
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GLewis

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Complete shit rag don't get me wrong but it isn't racism ffs

Re the bit about people from liverpool racism is probably just the easiest word to tag to it.

It is prejudicial though and should come under the same thing as any other form of abuse re a specific set of people.

It's never picked up in the chants etc as it's seen as banter etc.

But in Italy you can get parts of your ground shut for chants against whoever, but northern teams have had bans for singing things like southern teams' supporters are too poor to wash etc.

But in general here, not just in football, it is seen as fair game to say something derogatory to you.

April 15, 2017, 07:10:15 PM
Reply #50
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Duncs_a_legend

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Was that the year I was first on the shortlist too or the year before

It was towards the end of 2014 I think, I think it was the year before you maybe?
"I would never die for my beliefs...because I might be wrong"


April 15, 2017, 07:13:32 PM
Reply #51
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Zoolander

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Fair move by the club. Even if the so called columnist didn't know of Barkley's mixed heritage, he still referred to him as "thick", stated all rich scousers are drug dealers - and lets face it, unaware of a persons heritage or not, you don't in this age refer to anybody as a monkey of any sort. Especially not when you are writing for an internationally recognised newspaper/rumour & propaganda rag (delete as appropriate).

April 15, 2017, 07:25:19 PM
Reply #52
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Bluedylan


Lots of RS comments saying stuff like 'better late than never'. Dickheads. I wish we didn't have to be associated with them in any ban, regardless of what's happened.
The highway's jammed with broken heroes on a last chance power drive. Everybody's out on the run tonight but there's no place left to hide. Together, Wendy, we can live with the sadness, I'll love you with all the madness in my soul.

April 15, 2017, 07:27:55 PM
Reply #53
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GLewis

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Lots of RS comments saying stuff like 'better late than never'. Dickheads. I wish we didn't have to be associated with them in any ban, regardless of what's happened.

To be fair there are probably some of our fans moaning that it took so long.

But less than over 25 years gap though so I wouldn't worry unduly, we've clearly done nothing than be supportive over the years.


April 15, 2017, 07:28:33 PM
Reply #54
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Gash

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The club are certainly making out that it's the latest article that's the reason but it looks like Joe Anderson and Stan Collymore etc are determined to make this a Hillsborough thing. Especially Joe Anderson who sounds like he's claiming all the credit for it.

April 15, 2017, 07:35:27 PM
Reply #55
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GLewis

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The club are certainly making out that it's the latest article that's the reason but it looks like Joe Anderson and Stan Collymore etc are determined to make this a Hillsborough thing. Especially Joe Anderson who sounds like he's claiming all the credit for it.

Well I suppose it suits us to point to the last article as it's specific to us and avoids why we haven't done it earlier.

The others are commentariat angling for the widest audience possible, whereas just picking on Barkley or us in general isn't that interesting.

April 15, 2017, 07:38:54 PM
Reply #56
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Tony Clifton


The club are certainly making out that it's the latest article that's the reason but it looks like Joe Anderson and Stan Collymore etc are determined to make this a Hillsborough thing. Especially Joe Anderson who sounds like he's claiming all the credit for it.

Wouldn't expect anything less from Sad Joe.  He's an embarrasment to us all.

April 15, 2017, 08:06:51 PM
Reply #57
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Ell Capitan

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Complete shit rag don't get me wrong but it isn't racism ffs

I'm often one to give the benefit of the doubt, but on this occasion I don't agree.

You can't tell me an experienced football journo doesn't know that Barkley has Nigerian heritage. The story was in several national papers when Barkley first started making the England squad. It got resurrected again before the 2016 World Cup. I find it highly unlikely that Kelvin MacKenzie, who knows Barkley well enough to write full articles about him, wasn't aware of that fairly well known piece of information.

MacKenzie comes from a generation where for many racism was second nature, and who has committed his thoughts on black people to paper several times, publicly. The man is a demonstrable racist and there's absolutely nothing to suggest he's changed his views on the matter (and plenty to suggest he hasn't).

Now, perhaps his thought process wasn't as explicit as "I'm going to compare Barkley to a gorilla because of his black grandparent".

But once MacKenzie learned that Ross came from African heritage, did that later influence - perhaps subliminally - his perception that Ross is stupid?

And was his use of the gorilla as the point of comparison influenced by the usage of that animal as an insult to denote stupidity in black people? An insult I'd wager he'd thrown out many times before it become taboo in society. Gorillas are smart. They certainly aren't my go-to animal to denote stupidity.

In fact, can you imagine anyone who isn't racist committing these words to paper "I have always judged Ross Barkley as one of our dimmest footballers. There is something about the lack of reflection in his eyes which makes me certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home. I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".

Maybe the comparison was deliberate and malicious. Maybe it's a slightly more subtle form of racism. Either way, sorry, but personally I don't see the case for giving him the benefit of the doubt.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 08:18:36 PM by Ell Capitan »

April 15, 2017, 08:20:03 PM
Reply #58
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Ridge


The best thing to do in this scenario, is to consider the situation without the RS influences. The ban is not for them or on their behalf or because of any pressure they've applied. The defence is for Barkley, the fans and the club, that just happens to align with the RS on this occasion. If this was the Daily Mail, I would expect a very different response from RS fans, but the same action from us. In life you will have to dance with the devil, it doesn't mean you have to change all your steps.

The Sun made this into a huge story, then called Barkley thick and the missing link, called everyone from the city a drug dealer etc. The article is often the sort of thing that happens when players want to leave a club, as it devalues them. I don't think Barkley or his agent had any intention of this happening or getting out there, but it will have devalued him and/or make him more likely to want to leave or at least make this an awkward time for him.

I'd be fairly sure McKenzie wasn't aware about heritage,  and it's not hard to imagine him taking offence at the idea that someone needs to edit or check his work.

But we have a duty of care to Barkley, as an asset as well as a person and the description of him deserves a robust rebuke. I'd understand why he'd reconsider his position if we didn't given circumstances. He's been the victim of a scandalised sucker punch, then used as a denigrated weapon by a bitter, twisted cunt of a man.

If this was some small online publication, I could understand why you don't give it exposure. But the Sun are capable of setting the news agenda as they have done here, and ignoring what is already a scandal, rarely works.

April 15, 2017, 08:30:33 PM
Reply #59
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ally2


Without getting caught up in the emotion of this, my judgement of this piece is based on whether this guy would be happy to make such thoughts into speech man to man.  That always tells you what you need to know.