October 17, 2017, 08:12:01 PM

Author Topic: [News]Barkley given ultimatum  (Read 24871 times)

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May 19, 2017, 11:07:45 PM
Reply #285
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Lxxx


My issue here is that apart from a couple of months in the middle of last season he's never really shown the type of attributes, mainly a real drive to score, that you need to get 10 goals a season regularly.



He just might not be that player. He certainly doesn't have a knack for finding space like Cahill had, or let fly from outside the box as often as Kane does even thought he has two good feet. He's just a good footballer and maybe in a team that has all kinds of options ahead of him he can find his niche in an attacking midfield sense just driving with the ball or manipulating it on to the better players.
Maybe he could have been that player for us with genuine quality either side and ahead of him but we've never been in that fortunate position to have those players in abundance in our squad. 

deCoubertin

May 19, 2017, 11:10:28 PM
Reply #286
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arteta4spain


If he goes then as has been said he's definitely replaceable. He's just a better version of Osman. 😉

May 19, 2017, 11:22:30 PM
Reply #287
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GLewis

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Re whether Koeman really wants him or not...

One of the issues we have in terms of away games (or games when we're not playing well in general) is that both Lukaku and Barkley have similar weaknesses in terms of physicality and consistency in terms of control and holding the ball up.

We don't give ourselves a breather defensively or or platform to build offensively often enough.

When comparing the two, the issue that Barkley has is that you can guarantee that Lukaku will score if given the chances.

Therefore if we can only have one of them it's theoretically easier to have someone in their who is more solid most weeks meaning Lukaku gets more chances, than having a solid CF who brings Barkley into play more often as however good your assisting is, you still have to rely on someone else actually putting the ball into the net.

Essentially would you rather have someone create 5 more chances per game for the team with Lukaku in it, than have someone in that means Barkley gets the ball high up the pitch 5% of the time more, for example?


May 19, 2017, 11:30:11 PM
Reply #288
Online

Lxxx


Re whether Koeman really wants him or not...

One of the issues we have in terms of away games (or games when we're not playing well in general) is that both Lukaku and Barkley have similar weaknesses in terms of physicality and consistency in terms of control and holding the ball up.

We don't give ourselves a breather defensively or or platform to build offensively often enough.

When comparing the two, the issue that Barkley has is that you can guarantee that Lukaku will score if given the chances.

Therefore if we can only have one of them it's theoretically easier to have someone in their who is more solid most weeks meaning Lukaku gets more chances, than having a solid CF who brings Barkley into play more often as however good your assisting is, you still have to rely on someone else actually putting the ball into the net.

Essentially would you rather have someone create 5 more chances per game for the team with Lukaku in it, than have someone in that means Barkley gets the ball high up the pitch 5% of the time more, for example?

Which is probably why the Sigurdsson rumours continue to persist. He is the focal point of everything that happens offensively in that team and also contributes in the final third too.
Combine him with two other players like Sandro and Klassen who both hit double figures and you've suddenly got depth in an attacking sense behind one of the best finishers in the game. Meaning we can actually pose a threat away from home now.

May 19, 2017, 11:33:08 PM
Reply #289
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Silas

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 In an ideal World you add these players and keep Barkley but yes it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace with such players and add depth. A lot of the issue around Barkley is we have no one else to provide Lukaku

May 20, 2017, 12:05:51 AM
Reply #290
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Evertonian in NC


I think there's a good chance that he's been tapped up here and that's why we've hardened our stance.

It doesn't have to be just Koeman not liking him that much.

If he's on his way then the club is going to go out of their way (since they've done this to players who we've had to sell for money purposes in the past) to make sure it's known that it's not them deciding things.



Finally, a rational shout that made me stop and think, rather than just be upset/angry.  Thank you.  Very interesting thought, and a good explanation for why Koeman seems so pissed off.

The other half of his statement is Koeman seems bound and determined to keep Lukaku one last year, as he seems to know/sense that replacing both would be too much for one window.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin


May 20, 2017, 12:06:55 AM
Reply #291
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Evertonian in NC


Which is probably why the Sigurdsson rumours continue to persist. He is the focal point of everything that happens offensively in that team and also contributes in the final third too.
Combine him with two other players like Sandro and Klassen who both hit double figures and you've suddenly got depth in an attacking sense behind one of the best finishers in the game. Meaning we can actually pose a threat away from home now.

If we got all three of those guys, I would piss myself with excitement.  2/3 would be quite the feat.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

May 20, 2017, 12:33:06 AM
Reply #292
Online

Ridge


I don't think it was ever part of Koeman's plan for him to leave, he always had a high turnover of players at Southampton. Just think it's part of the way he manages, where everyone fights for places and he keeps them guessing. Someone like Rom finds it liberating as it's everyone for their own and he's a selfish bugger, others like Barkley struggle with expectation without the support or guidance. But there is also a sense that we are not an elite club and we should expect the best will move on or want to, that's a change from previous managers.

I think it's sad that an academy player is deciding to leave, especially in the manner he is, but I'm not sure it's worth getting too upset over. I think as always we've these things, it's nearly as much about who replaces him as who is leaving. First season, transfers have been solid if unspectacular, he needs to replace our two most important players, but he's going to have a huge kitty to do it. If we can't get really special players, I wouldn't be totally against pocketing a fair amount for costs of the stadium.

I think Barkley has got to the point where he wants a fresh start.

May 20, 2017, 12:43:47 AM
Reply #293
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D_murph0278


It doesn't feel right Barkley playing elsewhere. He's a blue and was our next Rooney... Our own Gerrard if you like.
I'm gutted it looks like his head has been turned, especially when we've got our best years ahead of us.
I'd keep Barkley ahead of Lukaku for them reasons alone!
"One for Lineker to chase and just look at his pace."

May 20, 2017, 12:50:35 AM
Reply #294
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sam of the south


As a boyhood Evertonian, it is a bit of a dick move to run your contract down, knowing your fee will be reduced.

Just sign a contract with the agreement that you can talk to whoever if a bid comes in, rather than running it down and putting Everton in a weak position.

Even if he's got a poor relationship with Koeman, it's the Club and the supporters who are going to feel this most, not Koeman.

Maybe he does resent some of the uneccesarily harsh treatment he gets from some corners of the fanbase, I don't know, or maybe he feels unwanted, or maybe he's been offered a contract below what him and his agent think he is worth.

However, if it's the tapping up scenario that GLewis mentions, then I think he's being a bit of a dick.

Oh, and I want him to stay.

Fucking love him to bits.

Probably why I'm calling him a dick for wanting to leave.

It bloody hurts, all this.
Dignity does not consist in possessing honours, but in deserving them

May 20, 2017, 12:51:13 AM
Reply #295
Online

Ridge


I think there's a good chance that he's been tapped up here and that's why we've hardened our stance.

It doesn't have to be just Koeman not liking him that much.

If he's on his way then the club is going to go out of their way (since they've done this to players who we've had to sell for money purposes in the past) to make sure it's known that it's not them deciding things.

Complaining about tapping up is generally a bit like calling someone a grass, agents are able to speak to clubs, managers and players. This is Barkley's club, so for him to not sign a contract is unusual, when we've probably offered decent pay rises. Maybe everyone is missing something and he's got a huge move lined up and is going to be their star, but it feels like he's going to be a squad player without the microscope. It doesn't feel like Ross is being greedy over money, it feels like he wants out.

I think Koeman's hung Ross out to dry, they've realised he's going and have put him on the ads and given public deadlines trying to appear in control of the situation. They are trying to make it as awkward as possible for him to leave, I don't think you'd do that if you're not that bothered, you do that if you're embittered about not getting your way.

May 20, 2017, 01:07:56 AM
Reply #296
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Escla

NSNO Subscriber
Ross can hardly come out now on Sunday after the match and say how made up he is to have signed a new 5 year deal and it was never in any doubt that he would sign for his beloved Everton can he, so, he's fucked and will be sold, can't even see Koeman playing hardball on the fee, reckon 25m max and he's gone.

May 20, 2017, 01:18:00 AM
Reply #297
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Paddockoldie


A wild card could be the issue's off the pitch? He got chinned recently for alleged incidents to do with a girl or other? Players can get targeted by people who are him as exploitable  and he may be getting pressured. As I said, a wild card but Gerrard got himself involved with naughty people years ago so it's possible. He may see a new start as a way of getting out of the shit? Can't see why he wouldn't want to sign really...

May 20, 2017, 01:51:47 AM
Reply #298
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ajax_andy


A wild card could be the issue's off the pitch? He got chinned recently for alleged incidents to do with a girl or other? Players can get targeted by people who are him as exploitable  and he may be getting pressured. As I said, a wild card but Gerrard got himself involved with naughty people years ago so it's possible. He may see a new start as a way of getting out of the shit? Can't see why he wouldn't want to sign really...

It's possible but I think much more likely this:

Barkley - sees himself as a key first team player who should start every game and be paid as one of the highest earners (possibly 100k a week).

Koeman - sees Barkley as a player whose had one decent half a season and only because he got on his case to pull his socks up, yet still didn't create or score enough goals, will be bringing in other players in the summer and Ross would be a squad player who had to earn his place in the team and has offered a contract that reflects this (maybe 60k - 70k).

Barkley needs to be loved in his mind but in reality Koeman has it right, he needs tough love to bring out the potential in him fully... the only problem is Barkley's contract is nearly up and unless Koeman goes all 'Martinez' on him then there's only going to be one outcome, Barkley leaving.

All this is just my speculation of course but it seems highly likely imo

May 20, 2017, 01:54:09 AM
Reply #299
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van der Meyde


He's got one life to live and I'm not gonna criticise him for leaving because he's miserable here or because he can get more money or win more trophies elsewhere or improve as a player more under another manager. If he thinks leaving will make him happier, good luck to the lad.

I think he's a good player, but I'm less concerned about replacing his output than I am about the message it sends if we can't convince a Scouse lad raised an Evertonian to stay. It hardly bodes well for the forthcoming transfer window.
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