September 21, 2017, 06:45:31 AM

Author Topic: Is the squad better than last season?  (Read 6380 times)

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September 11, 2017, 07:12:04 PM
Reply #210
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Lxxx


Yes I don't think he's made the right decisions all the time such as I wouldn't have played Sandro and Klaassen together on Saturday and I would have had a more defensive RB too.

But we don't have Lukaku or Barkley or want to play Mirallas either so we're going to have to go with new players / combinations whatever.

Mistakes in these fixtures are going to be magnified of course.

True, but the decision to banish Mirallas is his as well though. Which might ultimately be correct as he doesn't produce anymore but you need to be confident his replacement will hit the ground running to compensate for that. Mirallas might have been a safer selection to provide stability on the left in a game we're going to have less of the ball, for example.

I agree mistakes in these games are magnified but this is the level we aspire too now. This is the reason the top  managers are the best and why they get paid more, because they make better decisions more often.

deCoubertin

September 11, 2017, 07:23:02 PM
Reply #211
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GLewis

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True, but the decision to banish Mirallas is his as well though. Which might ultimately be correct as he doesn't produce anymore but you need to be confident his replacement will hit the ground running to compensate for that. Mirallas might have been a safer selection to provide stability on the left in a game we're going to have less of the ball, for example.

I agree mistakes in these games are magnified but this is the level we aspire too now. This is the reason the top  managers are the best and why they get paid more, because they make better decisions more often.

Yes that's all true (bar Mirallas ;) ) but it still doesn't mean that these problems don't exist to be overcome and to be fair most managers at the top clubs don't have to deal with that.

We might also be aspiring to match them but clearly our base point is still below them so therefore we're more susceptible to the consequences of mistakes.

September 11, 2017, 07:25:30 PM
Reply #212
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Hawkandro


Personally, I reckon we have improved in some areas; but the overall make up of the team appears worse, especially when taking into account the formation Koeman wants to play.
Yes, we're being condescending. Yes, that means we're talking down to you.


September 11, 2017, 07:34:29 PM
Reply #213
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Lxxx


Yes that's all true (bar Mirallas ;) ) but it still doesn't mean that these problems don't exist to be overcome and to be fair most managers at the top clubs don't have to deal with that.

We might also be aspiring to match them but clearly our base point is still below them so therefore we're more susceptible to the consequences of mistakes.

It's wise not to slip into a reactionary mindset but it's also helpful to note we are now at a profile and level of spending that brings with it added pressure to make mistakes less often.

I think regular evaluation of where we are and are heading to is now par for the course from here on in.

September 12, 2017, 03:43:17 AM
Reply #214
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piggypop



September 12, 2017, 04:28:39 AM
Reply #215
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Martip


We now have the 12th most expensive squad in world football

http://www.football365.com/news/man-united-replaced-as-worlds-most-expensive-squad
[/quote
Bloody he'll that really highlights how much money we 've wasted and we still don't have a striker!]


September 12, 2017, 10:57:25 AM
Reply #216
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Ramjam


The biggest concern for me, is not whether the squad is better than last year of not, it is, as Lxxx mentioned, there seems to me to be no coherent plan of how the team is trying to play; what the game plan is.

The plan seems to be to keep the opposition guessing as well
WE ARE THE PEOPLE

September 12, 2017, 06:03:25 PM
Reply #217
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MrWhite

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From the little time I've spent on the forum this is what I've found strange tbh. If someone raises concern with what they seeing they are kopites or wums or irrational based in a lack of evidence however if that same person comes back with evidence proving their points they are branded bad fans who wallow in the glory of being correct while the team is struggling.....i don't get it.
Surely we should discuss what we are seeing from the team and individual players throughout the season and so far I have been less than impressed with recruitment and performances.

I could reply to each of your points, but as you seem to keep ignoring the point I'm trying to make, and are now assigning things to my 'logic', despite me not having made definitive statements about.. well.. anything in discussion with you.. It seems more than a little pointless. Let's just leave it at 'I don't see the 'evidence' you see as definitive evidence, I only see them as discussion points.'

Just to be very clear - I have not called you a wum, or a kopite, or anything similar whatsoever. I have addressed your points in a logical manner. I have pointed out that some of your beliefs are based on your internal feelings and that you have attempted to present rationales as to why your feelings are correct, and that this is common human behaviour (which is both extensively documented in scientific circles and should also indicate that I, as a human, engage in these common behaviours too). You are quite entitled to your views, you are completely free (and welcome) to express them, just as I am entitled to my views, and completely free to express them. Inevitably, there are times when our views will be in conflict. That is the nature of a forum, so I'm surprised that you are surprised. Personally, I have never felt the need to class you or any other poster as a kopite or similar. I did attempt to wind up Realist a bit when he first started making threads, purely because the act of making threads in the manner he did indicated that he was seeking to wind up others, but as he missed the joke and seems to have calmed down into making more reasoned posts I have now left him to it.

To clarify on the subject, I still think we have a better squad than last season. The way that squad has been performing at times this season has been very poor, and there is much to discuss regarding that performance, but as the squad now won't change until January, I see no purpose whatsoever is trying to assign blame at this stage. Or any stage really, like all other fans I am stuck with the choices made by the board and management team and just cross my fingers that things will improve. Given the obvious quality of a number of our players, I have no doubt whatsoever that our form will improve. Whether that is next week or November remains to be seen.

September 12, 2017, 06:19:02 PM
Reply #218
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Lxxx


I think the fact even Moshiri commented publically on the amount of No 10's we have in the squad means either he reads what is being written about us and/or has been in regular contact with Walsh, who may share a similar view, and who in theory is supposed to act as the link between the playing staff and the executive team.

Either way it doesn't sound like a very harmonious way of working if the guy who writes the cheques is commenting on the disjointed make-up of the squad he's just overseen the recruitment of.

September 13, 2017, 05:22:50 AM
Reply #219
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Martip


I could reply to each of your points, but as you seem to keep ignoring the point I'm trying to make, and are now assigning things to my 'logic', despite me not having made definitive statements about.. well.. anything in discussion with you.. It seems more than a little pointless. Let's just leave it at 'I don't see the 'evidence' you see as definitive evidence, I only see them as discussion points.'

Just to be very clear - I have not called you a wum, or a kopite, or anything similar whatsoever. I have addressed your points in a logical manner. I have pointed out that some of your beliefs are based on your internal feelings and that you have attempted to present rationales as to why your feelings are correct, and that this is common human behaviour (which is both extensively documented in scientific circles and should also indicate that I, as a human, engage in these common behaviours too). You are quite entitled to your views, you are completely free (and welcome) to express them, just as I am entitled to my views, and completely free to express them. Inevitably, there are times when our views will be in conflict. That is the nature of a forum, so I'm surprised that you are surprised. Personally, I have never felt the need to class you or any other poster as a kopite or similar. I did attempt to wind up Realist a bit when he first started making threads, purely because the act of making threads in the manner he did indicated that he was seeking to wind up others, but as he missed the joke and seems to have calmed down into making more reasoned posts I have now left him to it.

To clarify on the subject, I still think we have a better squad than last season. The way that squad has been performing at times this season has been very poor, and there is much to discuss regarding that performance, but as the squad now won't change until January, I see no purpose whatsoever is trying to assign blame at this stage. Or any stage really, like all other fans I am stuck with the choices made by the board and management team and just cross my fingers that things will improve. Given the obvious quality of a number of our players, I have no doubt whatsoever that our form will improve. Whether that is next week or November remains to be seen.
You seem to have taken the post very personally when it was more of a general observation most of which not aimed at you or anyone in particular.

Without going over old ground unnecessarily I would just say that my 'internal feelings' are based on what i have seen on the pitch and our transfer actions. I don't feel I need to over analyse things any further than that as 'evidence' so whether I say it now or in another 15 games is of  no real consequence to me whereas it seems you prefer to almost wait for the horse to bolt before passing judgement which is fine and another example of cautionary human behaviour as you word it.

I would also say I'll be happy to come on here and admit I was wrong if that is the case...infact I d be delighted to as that would mean the team has performed well and I would take no embarrasment in doing so....its only opinions at the end of the day.

 I am not surprised one bit that there are differences of opinion in the forum as Everton fc is an emotive subject but I am surprised at the number of kopite and wum calls (not even aimed at me) when there is a difference of opinion. That seems unproductive in my book.


September 13, 2017, 05:28:36 PM
Reply #220
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MrWhite

NSNO Subscriber
You seem to have taken the post very personally when it was more of a general observation most of which not aimed at you or anyone in particular.

Without going over old ground unnecessarily I would just say that my 'internal feelings' are based on what i have seen on the pitch and our transfer actions. I don't feel I need to over analyse things any further than that as 'evidence' so whether I say it now or in another 15 games is of  no real consequence to me whereas it seems you prefer to almost wait for the horse to bolt before passing judgement which is fine and another example of cautionary human behaviour as you word it.

I would also say I'll be happy to come on here and admit I was wrong if that is the case...infact I d be delighted to as that would mean the team has performed well and I would take no embarrasment in doing so....its only opinions at the end of the day.

 I am not surprised one bit that there are differences of opinion in the forum as Everton fc is an emotive subject but I am surprised at the number of kopite and wum calls (not even aimed at me) when there is a difference of opinion. That seems unproductive in my book.

I agree with most of that. I haven't taken your post personally, I'm just in the habit of picking out posts that seem to push to one extreme of opinion without acknowledging doubt (which you have in this post). I'm in no rush to form an opinion because the limitations of the transfer window and the likelihood of the club giving Koeman time to see if he can get much better out of the squad means regardless of anyone's opinion in the fanbase, we are going to be stuck with this for at least the next few months. Given that, I'm comfortable waiting to see what happens. If it doesn't pick up, Koeman can't sort out the performances and tactics, and the likes of Klaassen don't improve, I will be gutted. Christmas is always so much more enjoyable when we're playing well. If we're out of Europe and struggling in the league, that little block of back to back games over the holidays will probably suck, and no-one wants that.

Regarding the kopite shouts, I quite agree, calling people names because they have a different opinion is in no way productive. That said, there is a lot of banter on here, and a generally upbeat tone from a lot of the regulars (check the general chat section  ;D) so I suspect shouts like that are driven partly by mockery (which maybe comes across as mean instead) but also by a negative reaction to people bringing the mood down with predictions of doom and gloom. Of course, the perception of some people as overly negative is probably also influenced by perceived tone of posts, so while someone might be feeling more concerned than angry, and post something with those concerns, it's read as 'angry', responded to strongly, and then the original posters feels set upon and actually gets annoyed, and then it just snowballs.