September 21, 2017, 06:36:35 AM

Author Topic: The Defence  (Read 2489 times)

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September 10, 2017, 07:37:24 PM
Reply #60
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Marky Mark and the funky


I agree with the criticism of Williams. He deffo sticks out like a sore thumb in a team trying to defend on the half way line.

Jags should be in the team ahead of him cos he at least is still fairly quick and is good on the recovery so he'd suit the tactics a lot better. But for me it's hardly an ideal solution as Jags is very limited himself nowadays. His absolute ball-phobia really undermines our efforts to keep the ball IMO.

We really should have bought as good a centre back that was available to partner Keane and we didn't. we really need to be moving beyond Jagielka ASAP.

And the Martina stuff is bordering on scapegoating now. Yeah he's a ropey defender but the whole shape of the team was a mess so he had no cover all day. He was also the only player to give them remotely anything to think about going the other way yesterday.

Like the whole post but that especially is a good call. I've just finished going throught the 50 page match thread. All those stereotypical shouts of Everton only doing sideways/backwards passing must have missed the multiple times the ball was played forward to an overlapping Martina. Cuco's right winger imitation is actually rather good, it's a shame he has this instead of mastering the basics of defending.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 07:45:56 PM by Marky Mark and the funky »

deCoubertin

September 11, 2017, 11:52:17 PM
Reply #61
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BlueForYou


Try Schneiderlin at CB alongside Keane
"We don't need a badge - everybody knows those blue and white shirts..............Everton"

Harry Catterick

September 12, 2017, 07:34:54 AM
Reply #62
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Jamokachi


Try Schneiderlin at CB alongside Keane

why?


September 12, 2017, 10:07:33 AM
Reply #63
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Buck76


Try Schneiderlin at CB alongside Keane

You mad?, Why not stick him in at RB seeing as he took the No.? Bony would shit himself

September 12, 2017, 07:05:46 PM
Reply #64
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Toddacelli


Martina and Williams are absolutely not good enough for this level.

Jagielka is past his best but should absolutely be starting.

Holgate struggles going forward but is a rock defensively.

Pickford
Holgate Keane Jagielka Baines

That's currently our best back line.

There can be no argument.




Unusual that someone puts "There can be no argument" on an internet forum... and is right!


I think we're coming to a real 'recruitment blitz' (trying not to use the word crisis because it's not a crisis really but you know what I mean) being required.

LB
Garbutt has never troubled Baines for a spot in the team and whilst that is largely due to how good Baines is - let's not forget that the last time we needed extended cover for him we went with Galloway. Baines is on the wane and is there anyone ready to step in? Recruitment needed.

RB
Coleman is outstanding. Kenny is promising. Martina is confusing and frustrating. We need Coleman back like we need oxygen at this point. For all the shoutrs for Kenny - there must be a reason he's not playing and we keep going with Martina. I've seen a few things I like about Martina and he's had a couple of decent performances but you need reliability in defence and when he has a mare - it is horrendous.

To be continued...
    

I'm only here for the cladding/Bramley Moore Dock updates

September 12, 2017, 09:13:07 PM
Reply #65
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BlueForYou


Why Morgan at CB?

Because he can play at CB!

Williams is not good on the ball and Jags' time is up

"We don't need a badge - everybody knows those blue and white shirts..............Everton"

Harry Catterick


September 12, 2017, 10:03:46 PM
Reply #66
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Toddacelli


Unusual that someone puts "There can be no argument" on an internet forum... and is right!


I think we're coming to a real 'recruitment blitz' (trying not to use the word crisis because it's not a crisis really but you know what I mean) being required.

LB
Garbutt has never troubled Baines for a spot in the team and whilst that is largely due to how good Baines is - let's not forget that the last time we needed extended cover for him we went with Galloway. Baines is on the wane and is there anyone ready to step in? Massive drop in quality if first choice not available. Recruitment needed.

RB
Coleman is outstanding. Kenny is promising. Martina is confusing and frustrating. We need Coleman back like we need oxygen at this point. For all the shoutrs for Kenny - there must be a reason he's not playing and we keep going with Martina. I've seen a few things I like about Martina and he's had a couple of decent performances but you need reliability in defence and when he has a mare - it is horrendous. Holgate is ok but still developing and I would have expected him to go out on loan this season to get games if we had Coleman available and Martina on the bench. Massive drop in quality if first choice not available. Recruitment needed.

CB
Jagielka is great but on the decline. I really think this is the last year we can rely on him. Keane is really good, could be great and is on the up. Williams is poor. I have seen him play some great games - just not in a Blue shirt. Funes Mori is a solid 4th choice squad player - an international who knows he's not quite good enough, but will get game time and gives 100% when he's on. I believe that Browning has the potential to be a decent player in the Premiership - just not in the half of the table we want be in. We are two injuries and one recovery away from starting a game with Williams and Funes Mori - but it still seems too close for comfort. We need a long-term partner for Keane. Massive drop in quality if first choice not available. Recruitment needed.

Summary
In each position we have only 1 stand-out performer. We need to do for the defence in the next transfer window what we did for the midfield in the last transfer window.

Additional
And for those Schneiderlin at CB shouts? I would much, much, much rather have Besic at CB and I dread Besic being a viable option there for us.
    

I'm only here for the cladding/Bramley Moore Dock updates

September 12, 2017, 10:13:19 PM
Reply #67
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BlueForYou


Schneiderlin is the best available to play alongside Keane
"We don't need a badge - everybody knows those blue and white shirts..............Everton"

Harry Catterick

September 13, 2017, 06:21:02 AM
Reply #68
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Jamokachi


Why Morgan at CB?

Because he can play at CB!

Williams is not good on the ball and Jags' time is up



Can he? Never seen him play there.

September 13, 2017, 02:23:20 PM
Reply #69
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Toddacelli


I think some people underestimate how hard and unforgiving a position CB is. Just because a player is a 'baller' does not mean he'd be good at CB. There's a totally different skillset required - and I'd go further and say a different mentality required as well.

Physically it's completely different.

You're gonna be touch-tight with beasts like Lukaku and Costa and have to out-fight them without conceding a foul.
You're gonna be touch-tight with little magicians like Aguero or Sanchez with a lower centre of gravity squirming around you and you have to stop them without conceding a foul - even if they are running into you.

Because if you're not touch-tight - even for a second - these players put the ball in the net and it's your fault.

You have to concentrate the whole time. You have to anticipate when to come to intercept - and if you get it wrong once and get caught out of position - goal.

You have to read the game and see the danger in advance - and not just for yourself - at CB you will be talking to the full-backs and midfield about what you can see the whole time and who they need to watch and when you need them to drop off or push up.

Has Schniederlin ever played CB before? Because if not - it's not just somewhere you can throw anybody in. There's a reason they blood young CB's out on the flanks at full-back - one mistake=goal.

    

I'm only here for the cladding/Bramley Moore Dock updates

September 13, 2017, 02:27:39 PM
Reply #70
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Jimmywhack

NSNO Subscriber
Have to say, Schneiderlin as a cb is a new one on me

September 13, 2017, 02:44:27 PM
Reply #71
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Toddacelli


Have to say, Schneiderlin as a cb is a new one on me

It's true!

Fabrice Muamba thinks he can so it's true!

http://www.squawka.com/news/fabrice-muamba-says-schneiderlin-is-capable-of-playing-at-centre-back/435691#UFLTYMxH5hMlPtqz.97

"Fabrice Muamba believes Morgan Schneiderlin could play as a central defender for Manchester United, as per the Express.

The France international played in midfield during his time at Southampton, with his performances catching the eye of Louis van Gaal, who brought him to Old Trafford this summer.

Four central midfield duos for United in 2015/16

However, the former Arsenal and Bolton midfielder thinks the 25-year-old is also capable of playing at the heart of the Red Devils’ defence.

Muamba – who retired early from the sport and then began a career in punditry – said: “United might have strengthened their midfield with the acquisition of Bastian Schweinsteiger and Morgan Schneiderlin, who is also capable of playing centre-half too.

“Their defence is not the strongest compared to the rest of top-four sides. That remains a worry and leadership is also needed if they have any chances of finishing one step better than they did last season.”

Schneiderlin didn’t make a single defensive error in 2014/15, despite making an average of four actions each game. He won less than half of his tackles (47%) and headers (45%) though, which will need to improve if he is to play at the heart of a Champions League standard backline.

His temperament is perhaps a cause for concern, as Schneiderlin had the worst record of any Saints player last term. The 25-year-old earned six yellows and a red, whilst committing 48 fouls.

In comparison, the trio of United defenders below earned the same number of cards between them. The Frenchman also committed 25 more fouls than Chris Smalling, despite playing only one game more."


So whilst he may be defensive-minded for a midfielder - he can't tackle and he gives away free-kicks.

On that basis would be a calamity at CB.

And don't let the "more defensive actions than any other saints midfielder" bit distract you - in the same article it shows that it was actually the same as Victor Wanyama so how would you like to see Wanyama at CB?

« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 02:47:43 PM by Toddacelli »
    

I'm only here for the cladding/Bramley Moore Dock updates

September 13, 2017, 02:46:21 PM
Reply #72
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Evertonian in NC


I don't see what Jags has done to be unusable there until Coleman comes back (and we can shift Holgate to CB).  I would only use Schneiderlin at CB to the extent (i) he really is comfortable there; and (ii) as a way to get him out of his recent funk at DM (where we also have other options, including our madman Mo).
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin

September 13, 2017, 02:49:06 PM
Reply #73
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Toddacelli


I don't see what Jags has done to be unusable there until Coleman comes back (and we can shift Holgate to CB).  I would only use Schneiderlin at CB to the extent (i) he really is comfortable there; and (ii) as a way to get him out of his recent funk at DM (where we also have other options, including our madman Mo).

I think Madman Mo (sorry Bally) would be the better option. And I would hate to see that.
    

I'm only here for the cladding/Bramley Moore Dock updates

September 13, 2017, 02:53:02 PM
Reply #74
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Evertonian in NC


I like what Mo does at DM, but even though I have seen him play credibly in very brief cameos at CB...I have trouble visualizing him as a real option for significant minutes there.

Schneiderlin is at least 1.1, maybe as much as 1.15 Holgates, right?  He's at least got that going for him.
"If you want a really scary thought, imagine how stupid the average American is.  Then realize...half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - George Carlin