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NSNO Forums => General Football Chat => Topic started by: Goaljira on March 09, 2017, 04:23:02 AM

Title: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Goaljira on March 09, 2017, 04:23:02 AM
For the purpose of this there's no other options, only the two in the poll.  The only way you win is through some form of deception.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Audrey Horne on March 09, 2017, 04:23:58 AM
yeah i just want to win, cheating or not. Id have Suarez in my team.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Gash on March 09, 2017, 04:25:48 AM
It wasn't Thierry Henry levels of cheating. It's just another dodgy penalty decision in a completely mental game of football. If it was us I wouldn't be giving it a second thought.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Major Clanger on March 09, 2017, 04:31:38 AM
What would be the point?

If winning with cheating opened up an opportunity in the future, allowing you to earn lots of money and one day win without cheating, that's fair enough. But if there's only glory at stake, winning with cheating is no better than losing.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Macca77 on March 09, 2017, 04:38:33 AM
Cheating cunt, amazing player, and a cannibal to boot, loves his kids though which makes him ok in my book.

Imagine he played for us, holy shitballs!! I wouldn't be arsed if he ate his own nan
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Alfie Noakes on March 09, 2017, 04:46:25 AM
It's the cheating you hate that you can't forget and if you can't forget it you can't forgive.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: TSGun on March 09, 2017, 04:51:48 AM
Lost honorably every day of the week.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: pjk on March 09, 2017, 05:09:13 AM
When was the last time we cheated to win a game? I'm not sure that I can't remember because it's nice and convenient. :)
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Shogun on March 09, 2017, 05:50:04 AM
Not what the thread is asking but I hope he gets a career ending injury sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Shogun on March 09, 2017, 05:50:50 AM
It wasn't Thierry Henry levels of cheating. It's just another dodgy penalty decision in a completely mental game of football. If it was us I wouldn't be giving it a second thought.

The attempt he made earlier for a penalty for TH levels, mind.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Optimistic Blue on March 09, 2017, 06:02:41 AM
Well if we won the league and our entire team was found to be jacked up on PEDs and or were caught paying the refs to match fix that is unforgivable and would be a disgrace.

With the Suarez thing, the lines become a bit more blurred as diving is considered part of the game now, so when the environment is the way it is what can you do?
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: bacon sarnie on March 09, 2017, 06:10:44 AM
When was the last time we cheated to win a game? I'm not sure that I can't remember because it's nice and convenient. :)

Found this in the outside bog...

'Re: Everton, football and cheating
Main Discussion ­ Norwich City
Everton, football and cheating
Buncey 08/04/2012, 9:09 AM
I have to be honest. I refrained from posting yesterday as I felt perhaps I had let my bitterness go to far, but I
woke this morning still fuming over yesterdays events and utterly depressed that I simply could not enjoy
another vintage Norwich performance.
The Everton team we played yesterday was one of the most spine­less and cynical teams I have ever seen at
Carrow Road.
Like Paul Lambert, I have a huge amount of respect for David Moyes and the philosophy of football he has
brought to Everton. It is also clear that much of his ideas have been used to form this fabulous Norwich team,
one that has taken the Premierleague by storm. In short, I was very eager to see a footballing side built on ideals
of team­play and respect for the opposition. In the end, as I have been almost throughout this season, I was
disgusted by the tidal wave of gamesmanship our boys faced yesterday.
How Everton managed to keep 11 players on the pitch is beyond me. Baines somehow contrived to commit at
least 4 cynical fouls, one of which was the clearest attempt to play the player in the box I have seen at Carrow
Road in a long time. Pienaar cheated his way to "Everton's" second goal. Only to jeer the Norwich fans in the
Barclay and then partake in one of the most disgusting dives to have "graced" football (he later on scythed
Bennett down on the touchline and one again escaped punishment.) It simply amazes me that Everton amassed
only 3 bookings after a lengthy pursuit of gamesmanship and cynical fouling that resulted in them totting up 17
fouls; any spectator of yesterday's game would be well inclined to believe that far more fouls went unpunished.
In the end it took seven cynical fouls, by Everton players beaten by their man, before the referees hand was
forced. How that hand had to be forced indeed. The worst of the bunch was Jelavic who proceed to punt the ball
into the Snakepit to waste time (and somehow avoid punishment) and then sidestep into the rushing Bennett and
cluch his face and roll in agony as if Milosevic had bombed his home. Instead of any punishment for the blatant
cheat, Mr. Marriner looked on content as Jelavic crawled on the floor, a half­yard from the touch line, in bonecrushing
pain from the chilly Norfolk air.
Marriner can only blame himself for letting the game fall into such disrepute. One of the most stonewall
handballs I have seen (where Hibbert dived arms first towards the on­coming shot) was nonchalantly waved
away. The cynical fouling by the Everton players continually went unpunished and I won't elaborate on the
"second goal"; I will say that I am amazed that such an incompetent professional can still be holding a job in the
morning.
I simply felt sick leaving the ground, and mulling over the continued cheating, disrespect and incompetence that
has infected our game. And call me a fool, but I spent the long train journey home reminiscing of those fun and
enjoyable days in League 1 where football was actually played and not acted like an American soap opera.'

The Kopites must really really really miss Suarez btw.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: pjk on March 09, 2017, 06:27:20 AM
Found this in the outside bog...

'Re: Everton, football and cheating
Main Discussion ­ Norwich City
Everton, football and cheating
Buncey 08/04/2012, 9:09 AM
I have to be honest. I refrained from posting yesterday as I felt perhaps I had let my bitterness go to far, but I
woke this morning still fuming over yesterdays events and utterly depressed that I simply could not enjoy
another vintage Norwich performance.
The Everton team we played yesterday was one of the most spine­less and cynical teams I have ever seen at
Carrow Road.
Like Paul Lambert, I have a huge amount of respect for David Moyes and the philosophy of football he has
brought to Everton. It is also clear that much of his ideas have been used to form this fabulous Norwich team,
one that has taken the Premierleague by storm. In short, I was very eager to see a footballing side built on ideals
of team­play and respect for the opposition. In the end, as I have been almost throughout this season, I was
disgusted by the tidal wave of gamesmanship our boys faced yesterday.
How Everton managed to keep 11 players on the pitch is beyond me. Baines somehow contrived to commit at
least 4 cynical fouls, one of which was the clearest attempt to play the player in the box I have seen at Carrow
Road in a long time. Pienaar cheated his way to "Everton's" second goal. Only to jeer the Norwich fans in the
Barclay and then partake in one of the most disgusting dives to have "graced" football (he later on scythed
Bennett down on the touchline and one again escaped punishment.) It simply amazes me that Everton amassed
only 3 bookings after a lengthy pursuit of gamesmanship and cynical fouling that resulted in them totting up 17
fouls; any spectator of yesterday's game would be well inclined to believe that far more fouls went unpunished.
In the end it took seven cynical fouls, by Everton players beaten by their man, before the referees hand was
forced. How that hand had to be forced indeed. The worst of the bunch was Jelavic who proceed to punt the ball
into the Snakepit to waste time (and somehow avoid punishment) and then sidestep into the rushing Bennett and
cluch his face and roll in agony as if Milosevic had bombed his home. Instead of any punishment for the blatant
cheat, Mr. Marriner looked on content as Jelavic crawled on the floor, a half­yard from the touch line, in bonecrushing
pain from the chilly Norfolk air.
Marriner can only blame himself for letting the game fall into such disrepute. One of the most stonewall
handballs I have seen (where Hibbert dived arms first towards the on­coming shot) was nonchalantly waved
away. The cynical fouling by the Everton players continually went unpunished and I won't elaborate on the
"second goal"; I will say that I am amazed that such an incompetent professional can still be holding a job in the
morning.
I simply felt sick leaving the ground, and mulling over the continued cheating, disrespect and incompetence that
has infected our game. And call me a fool, but I spent the long train journey home reminiscing of those fun and
enjoyable days in League 1 where football was actually played and not acted like an American soap opera.'

The Kopites must really really really miss Suarez btw.




I must have missed that game. :whistle:
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: bacon sarnie on March 09, 2017, 06:35:44 AM



I must have missed that game. :whistle:

Aye, you and Arsene Wenger.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Bally on March 09, 2017, 01:43:58 PM
Found this in the outside bog...

'Re: Everton, football and cheating
Main Discussion ­ Norwich City
Everton, football and cheating
Buncey 08/04/2012, 9:09 AM
I have to be honest. I refrained from posting yesterday as I felt perhaps I had let my bitterness go to far, but I
woke this morning still fuming over yesterdays events and utterly depressed that I simply could not enjoy
another vintage Norwich performance.
The Everton team we played yesterday was one of the most spine­less and cynical teams I have ever seen at
Carrow Road.
Like Paul Lambert, I have a huge amount of respect for David Moyes and the philosophy of football he has
brought to Everton. It is also clear that much of his ideas have been used to form this fabulous Norwich team,
one that has taken the Premierleague by storm. In short, I was very eager to see a footballing side built on ideals
of team­play and respect for the opposition. In the end, as I have been almost throughout this season, I was
disgusted by the tidal wave of gamesmanship our boys faced yesterday.
How Everton managed to keep 11 players on the pitch is beyond me. Baines somehow contrived to commit at
least 4 cynical fouls, one of which was the clearest attempt to play the player in the box I have seen at Carrow
Road in a long time. Pienaar cheated his way to "Everton's" second goal. Only to jeer the Norwich fans in the
Barclay and then partake in one of the most disgusting dives to have "graced" football (he later on scythed
Bennett down on the touchline and one again escaped punishment.) It simply amazes me that Everton amassed
only 3 bookings after a lengthy pursuit of gamesmanship and cynical fouling that resulted in them totting up 17
fouls; any spectator of yesterday's game would be well inclined to believe that far more fouls went unpunished.
In the end it took seven cynical fouls, by Everton players beaten by their man, before the referees hand was
forced. How that hand had to be forced indeed. The worst of the bunch was Jelavic who proceed to punt the ball
into the Snakepit to waste time (and somehow avoid punishment) and then sidestep into the rushing Bennett and
cluch his face and roll in agony as if Milosevic had bombed his home. Instead of any punishment for the blatant
cheat, Mr. Marriner looked on content as Jelavic crawled on the floor, a half­yard from the touch line, in bonecrushing
pain from the chilly Norfolk air.
Marriner can only blame himself for letting the game fall into such disrepute. One of the most stonewall
handballs I have seen (where Hibbert dived arms first towards the on­coming shot) was nonchalantly waved
away. The cynical fouling by the Everton players continually went unpunished and I won't elaborate on the
"second goal"; I will say that I am amazed that such an incompetent professional can still be holding a job in the
morning.
I simply felt sick leaving the ground, and mulling over the continued cheating, disrespect and incompetence that
has infected our game. And call me a fool, but I spent the long train journey home reminiscing of those fun and
enjoyable days in League 1 where football was actually played and not acted like an American soap opera.'

The Kopites must really really really miss Suarez btw.
Stinks of bitter that
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: TheRam on March 09, 2017, 01:53:26 PM
What a player aye.

He's a cheating cunt but so was marradonna.

Always has been and always will be a part of the game.

Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Gash on March 09, 2017, 02:20:51 PM
The attempt he made earlier for a penalty for TH levels, mind.

The one he was booked for? Nah, you see that kind of thing every week and Neymar did it all game as well, mostly outside the box.

I'm not condoning it, I hate diving but under the circumstances it's no surprise they were trying anything and everything to win the game.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Escla on March 09, 2017, 03:37:18 PM
yeah i just want to win, cheating or not. Id have Suarez in my team.

Well we now know who the three are that voted for cheating, not talking about last nights pen which could have gone either way talking about the principle of cheating to win in any sport, what's the point ?
I would take no pleasure in supporting a team who persistently cheated rather than show superior skills, that's no longer sport , it's fraud. In amateur golf you have no referees and often you are out of sight of your fellow players but may be called upon to penalise yourself, I.e. movement of the ball after removing a leaf or debris, an unseen double hit in the bunker, an unseen air shot, you take the penalty because those are the rules and anything less and the only person you are cheating is yourself, no time for cheats in my lif
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Brownie20 on March 09, 2017, 04:12:36 PM
having been in the losing dressing room after a cup final where we were blatantly cheated I would never want anyone to feel the way I did after that. You never mind losing to a better team, but to see months and years of hard work taken from you is soul destroying. I'm not talking about gamesmanship, but out and out cheating. Everyone gets away with a little. So it's a lose honourably for me.

Disclaimer: except when it comes to them lot. Beating them in whatever manner, I don't care. In fact I'd love to see the indignation on their faces
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Audrey Horne on March 09, 2017, 04:13:14 PM
Well we now know who the three are that voted for cheating, not talking about last nights pen which could have gone either way talking about the principle of cheating to win in any sport, what's the point ?
I would take no pleasure in supporting a team who persistently cheated rather than show superior skills, that's no longer sport , it's fraud. In amateur golf you have no referees and often you are out of sight of your fellow players but may be called upon to penalise yourself, I.e. movement of the ball after removing a leaf or debris, an unseen double hit in the bunker, an unseen air shot, you take the penalty because those are the rules and anything less and the only person you are cheating is yourself, no time for cheats in my lif

Im talking about diving for a pen in the last minute of a champions league game. Id rather that than going out. Id defo hve a suarez in my team.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Escla on March 09, 2017, 04:20:18 PM
Fair enough but only because that has sadly become the norm in football and it is a gamble, you take a big risk of getting a yellow or even a red if the ref deems it a dive.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Major Clanger on March 09, 2017, 04:21:04 PM
Im talking about diving for a pen in the last minute of a champions league game. Id rather that than going out. Id defo hve a suarez in my team.

Players cheat because they're allowed to get away with it.

If the IFAB and the refereeing bodies would do everything to stamp out cheating and a player would still continue to cheat, he deserves everything coming at him.

But since they don't even seem to try, I can't really blame the players for doing it. They're paid to win after all.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Major Clanger on March 09, 2017, 04:22:00 PM
Fair enough but only because that has sadly become the norm in football and it is a gamble, you take a big risk of getting a yellow or even a red if the ref deems it a dive.

A very small risk of a yellow maybe. No risk whatsoever of a red.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Escla on March 09, 2017, 08:07:23 PM
Yellows often given for diving and if he was already on a yellow he gets a red.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: blargins on March 09, 2017, 11:36:41 PM
You rarely see anyone get to the top without cheating in some way.

And when you look back at team's honors lists, who really looks beyond those stats? You take any advantage you can to win.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: kramer0 on March 10, 2017, 12:33:30 AM
There are a lot of players in world football who look to prey on moments of carelessness from the defense -- a trailing leg, a stray arm, etc. -- by falling down. It's a cheap tactic and the way these actions are officiated is erratic but a lot of the time these things don't look much different than actual fouls. Diving is going to be a part of the game until we can tell the difference in real time or there's some kind of video review process (which I'm not particularly keen on given the way video review can disrupt the flow of American sports like (American) football and basketball).

The problem I have with Suarez, and it might not make a difference to most, is the way he goes down like he's been mortally wounded to get the decisions. See yesterday's penalty -- Marquinhos extends his arm which gives Suarez the opportunity to fall down and Suarez sells it by clutching his chest like he's having a heart attack. It's the same deal as the Rodwell derby. Rodwell wins the ball cleanly, Suarez hits the ground like he's been shot, and the official gives a red card for something that wasn't even a foul. The best (worst) example of him pulling this trick was in the World Cup, where Suarez bit Chiellini and went down clutching his own face as if he was the victim. It's embarrassing behavior regardless of how great the player is. The only thing more embarrassing is that officials keep buying the act.

Obviously, this probably comes across as a bit sanctimonious and it's not possible for me to be objective about Suarez given the deep well of hatred I have for him dating back to his Liverpool days. But his antics are a bridge too far for me and I don't think I could sign off on them just for the sake of winning. (For what it's worth, I was fine with the goal-saving handball in the World Cup. Slimy as it is, it's an action that has clearly defined consequences and I'd expect any of our players to do the same in similar circumstances.)

Tom Davies has just the right amount of snideness for me*.

* Unless he starts playacting, biting, or racially abusing people.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: chang on March 12, 2017, 04:10:15 AM
Well if we won the league and our entire team was found to be jacked up on PEDs and or were caught paying the refs to match fix that is unforgivable and would be a disgrace.

With the Suarez thing, the lines become a bit more blurred as diving is considered part of the game now, so when the environment is the way it is what can you do?

Ref - linesman and the bloke behind the goal all close by and not one of them saw it as a dive ? ..... that's just "big team at home in the shit incompetence"
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Brownie20 on March 12, 2017, 02:59:49 PM
Cheating is such an emotive word with a broad spectrum as to its definition. Diving has become part of the game, players are taught to go down when there is contact in the area. Is it cheating or gamesmanship? Because i would say, even though I hate diving, that its gamesmanship and something that refs need to be more consistent on in their handling. However, falling over and feigning an injury when a player comes up to you in an altercation (like that City player against Rom) is cheating and needs to be dealt with. Players in all sports are going to play the percentages in bending the rules. If I didn't do that when I was playing rugby I wouldn't be doing my job properly
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: GLewis on March 12, 2017, 11:26:10 PM
Normally you get players who are divers; players who are bad snides; players who try to injure players; players who try to get others sent off etc.

Any one of these traits is enough for most people to dislike that player.

However Suarez is a leading exponent in all of these categories.

I've never seen a player who is pretty much constantly got some form of cheating in his mind.

It's actually pretty impressive from a mental capacity point of view that he's able to play well and think of all these scenarios at the same time.

Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Mac934 on March 12, 2017, 11:39:45 PM
Surely gamesmanship is cheating. It is deliberately trying to fool officials any way possible. The refereeing is atrocious nowadays, they know it happens, but, do next to nothing to stop it. Now the powers to be are looking into ' only the captain 'can talk to the ref, how long do anyone think that will last? As for Suarez, he is a class 1 snidely bastard, but is not alone by any means.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Brownie20 on March 13, 2017, 12:35:34 AM
Surely gamesmanship is cheating. It is deliberately trying to fool officials any way possible. The refereeing is atrocious nowadays, they know it happens, but, do next to nothing to stop it. Now the powers to be are looking into ' only the captain 'can talk to the ref, how long do anyone think that will last? As for Suarez, he is a class 1 snidely bastard, but is not alone by any means.

Yes and no. Living on the offside line, raising my foot slightly early for a strike at scrum time, holding a player into a ruck are all against the laws of the game but everyone does them to get an edge. Cheating for me anyway are things like the bloodgate scandal with Harkequins, fielding ringers in cup games, taking performance enhancing drugs
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Major Clanger on March 13, 2017, 12:41:25 AM
Surely gamesmanship is cheating. It is deliberately trying to fool officials any way possible.

Not all gamesmanship is about fooling the officials.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: Mac934 on March 13, 2017, 08:49:29 PM
I suppose  Brownie and MC you are both right, there are certain things that are blatant cheating and then the minor discretions that go on all the time. All the pushing, pulling, arm holding etc in the box for set pieces pisses me off, pity more refs don't penalise more often both ways and give out cards like the ref earlier in the season, then it might stop it or at least lessen it.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: bacon sarnie on March 13, 2017, 08:58:04 PM
Reckon cheating on the football field may dissipate somewhat if officials turned a blind eye to the likes of Suarez being properly booted up in the air but that's not gonna happen, as its human nature to gain the edge on opposition be it a defender or the coppers or whoever they're shagging.
Title: Re: The Suarez Question...
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on March 29, 2017, 04:31:33 PM
The Suarez question:

If we was on fire would you piss on him?

Yes, but not enough to put the fire out.