NSNO | Everton Forum

NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Shogun on September 23, 2017, 11:16:33 PM

Title: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Shogun on September 23, 2017, 11:16:33 PM
It was said last season about Tom Davies and it's been said this season about Jonjoe Kenny.

It's been shown to be absolutely shite.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: The Analog Kid on September 23, 2017, 11:20:02 PM
You only have to look at the achievements of the U23’s to see what we’ve got coming through.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: stirlingblue on September 23, 2017, 11:20:12 PM
Whilst I would like more kids to play, I'm not sure you can say that after a game at home to Bournemouth when we're throwing bodies forward.

The risk with youngsters is a lapse in concentration or the crowd getting on their back, which aren't dangers in the environment that they came on it today
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: mikey_blue on September 23, 2017, 11:21:26 PM
I think certain types of kids need to be eased into the team. You don't want to break their confidence too early. Tom Davies though. He's ready to start every game. He'll be rocking the armband in a few years. He's on a whole other level to some of the kids his age.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Silas on September 23, 2017, 11:23:09 PM
Yeah but then you have Holgate in his natural position having a bit of a mare. Don't get me wrong if they are playing well you play them but there's no right or wrong in keeping them in reserve either.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Realist on September 23, 2017, 11:23:16 PM
If you're good enough you're old enough, I'm made up Kenny has looked good when he's played it means there's no reason to start Cuco the clown at RB
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: mikey_blue on September 23, 2017, 11:25:30 PM
If you're good enough you're old enough, I'm made up Kenny has looked good when he's played it means there's no reason to start Cuco the clown at RB

Especially with the likes of Spurs and Liverpool using their younger players and full-back. Get them in the game, maybe give their senior counterparts a kick up the arse too.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: TheRam on September 23, 2017, 11:32:19 PM
Yeah but then you have Holgate in his natural position having a bit of a mare. Don't get me wrong if they are playing well you play them but there's no right or wrong in keeping them in reserve either.

Not sure Holgate is as good as we seem to think.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Confucius on September 23, 2017, 11:33:10 PM
You could argue that Holgate is not ready. Two massive errors costing goals in different games when he has played his preferred position.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Silas on September 23, 2017, 11:33:53 PM
Not sure Holgate is as good as we seem to think.

I still think he'll be very good but worried the longer he doesn't get a run at centre back, the more he will struggle. If we have injuries now he may well get a chance to shine. I don't think having Martina next to him did him any favours at all today.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: TheRam on September 23, 2017, 11:36:32 PM
I still think he'll be very good but worried the longer he doesn't get a run at centre back, the more he will struggle. If we have injuries now he may well get a chance to shine. I don't think having Martina next to him did him any favours at all today.

That's true.

Coleman and Keane/Jags alongside him would benefit him greatly.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Jamokachi on September 23, 2017, 11:39:13 PM
That's true.

Coleman and Keane/Jags alongside him would benefit him greatly.

I think more Coleman to honest. It was not having an outlet to his right that was the issue, nothing that Williams was doing.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: TheRam on September 23, 2017, 11:40:08 PM
I think more Coleman to honest. It was not having an outlet to his right that was the issue, nothing that Williams was doing.

Williams was awful again and to blame for the goal.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Macca77 on September 23, 2017, 11:40:44 PM
Davies starts for me, he reminds me of Jack Wiltshire when he was the bestest young English player ever
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: brap2 on September 23, 2017, 11:41:50 PM
You have to say it would be better if the older pros were ready, or capable because then you could bring the youth through at your own pace and by the end of year why're getting plenty of footy but the weight doesn't rest on their shoulders.

You spend £150m in the summer and your team spine is made of largely academy players who are U23 it is just too much responsibility to ask them to play a full year.

That said, needs must and DCL, Kenny and Davies have to play.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Jamokachi on September 23, 2017, 11:41:51 PM
Williams was awful again and to blame for the goal.

How was he at fault? A couple of stray passes aside I though he looked ok.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Silas on September 23, 2017, 11:42:01 PM
Williams was awful again and to blame for the goal.

Williams frustrates me because he can have 60 minutes were I think he is great but it's like he isn't capable of a 90 minute performance nowadays.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: TheRam on September 23, 2017, 11:43:08 PM
How was he at fault? A couple of stray passes aside I though he looked ok.

I'm only playing. Didn't even see the goal because obstructed view :(
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 23, 2017, 11:43:27 PM
Bit hysterical this thread isn't it?

Davies has had chances this year but looked pretty poor, this last week aside.

Kenny came on and did well in a team that had their tails up against a tiring Bournemouth that were on the ropes showing very little attacking threat. Plus he started in the week so was given a go then too.

One thing that can't be levelled at Koeman during his time here is that he's not willing to give youngsters a chance.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Jamokachi on September 23, 2017, 11:43:56 PM
I'm only playing. Didn't even see the goal because obstructed view :(

Haha, ok. It was Holgate at fault for the goal, fyi :)
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Sir Stealth on September 23, 2017, 11:44:58 PM
Davies starts for me, he reminds me of Jack Wiltshire when he was the bestest young English player ever

For future reference it's Wilshere

I do Like Wiltshire ham though 😃
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Confucius on September 23, 2017, 11:45:35 PM
Bit hysterical this thread isn't it?

Davies has had chances this year but looked pretty poor, this last week aside.

Kenny came on and did well in a team that had their tails up against a tiring Bournemouth that were on the ropes showing very little attacking threat. Plus he started in the week so was given a go then too.

One thing that can't be levelled at Koeman during his time here is that he's not willing to give youngsters a chance.

Kenny came on when we were down 1-0 and looking useless
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: griff969 on September 23, 2017, 11:47:33 PM
With the U23's carrying on the success of last season, even with so many out on loan too, we have a real wealth of talent to call on. RK needs to be selecting sides on merit. If that means he puts one of the homegrown in and benching one of his signings then so be it.

 
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 24, 2017, 12:01:00 AM
Whilst I would like more kids to play, I'm not sure you can say that after a game at home to Bournemouth when we're throwing bodies forward.

The risk with youngsters is a lapse in concentration or the crowd getting on their back, which aren't dangers in the environment that they came on it today

As opposed to the lapses made by Williams, Jags and Martina this season? oh and Rooney.. so many times in games he's played the ball backwards with out looking, giving it to the opposition.

Not sure Holgate is as good as we seem to think.

With a solid run in defence next to Keane and a decent Right back, he will be fine, He's good at playing the ball out, long or short, doesnt make as many mistakes as Williams.. He needs to get use to the CB position, playing with players who make mistakes is not going to help him.

Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: stirlingblue on September 24, 2017, 12:35:05 AM
As opposed to the lapses made by Williams, Jags and Martina this season? oh and Rooney.. so many times in games he's played the ball backwards with out looking, giving it to the opposition.


I'm not talking about the risk from an in-game point of view, more the risk that it knocks their confidence and gets the crowd on their back.

Rooney is a seasoned pro, he's not going to let a mistake or the crowd change his game at this point in his career. Same for Williams, Jags and Martina.

What you don't want is an attacking fullback like Kenny coming on, screwing up and then playing within himself going forward.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Macca77 on September 24, 2017, 12:41:56 AM
For future reference it's Wilshere

I do Like Wiltshire ham though 😃

So its a silent t then, interesting
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Sir Stealth on September 24, 2017, 12:43:53 AM
So its a silent t then, interesting

More of an invisible T 😂
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: pedrotheblue on September 24, 2017, 12:48:54 AM
Not convinced that Holgate has the physical  stature to be a top CB, still only young though so might fill out a bit.

DCL AND Davies doing their cause no harm at all.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: gizzblue on September 24, 2017, 01:26:34 AM
Nice to see people finally getting on the Kenny wagon as well as other youngsters ....koeman needs a fucking wake up ...we ooze youth talent just need a couple seasoned pro's younger than  fucking  Rooney(sub at best now) to get the best team we've had in decades .
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: ally2 on September 24, 2017, 01:43:27 AM
Football fan cliche about bringing on the kids.  I suppose this is another pop at Koeman because it fits an agenda.  The reality is that he brought kids through and they have done well.  You could equally argue that he chose the perfect time to introduce them because they have in the main done really well.  It could have been that if he brought them in earlier that they might not have been ready and it could have set them back.  Or it could be that they were rready earlier.  Nobody will ever know.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Toddacelli on September 24, 2017, 01:50:55 AM
I think one of the problems is how many new players we've brought in.

People saying that Koeman is stubborn and wanting to play players he's brought in. Fair enough, that's part of the picture - he does have to justify his position after all - but he is still trying out all these new players to see who fits where, who gets an understanding with who.

I really want to see Lookman get some more time on the pitch. I think he's at the point where regular late-game cameos will really help him.
I really like the look of Vlasic - cheeky little signing. He looks very strong, composed, experienced and mature for such a young lad.
I am desperate to see more of Sandro - he has a greatly promising pedigree and I believe with regular game time he can really grow into this league. His control, movement and fast feet show occasional glimpses that have me dreaming we're unearthing the next Aguero.
I am excited that we have the captain of Europa finalists Ajax in the team who has a record of popping up with important goals.
The Sigurdsson saga was dragged out long enough to remove most of the excitement but we have signed a very decent player and i'd really like to see how he is once he's settled and doing well.
I also really love all the things Rooney brings - experience, leadship, presence, goals - and I can't help but think that when the rest of the team has the confidence not to rely on him all the time it will be liberating for him to be able to do his own role well, rather than trying to do everything for everyone all the time.

The point is - we have so many players to bed in and it takes time. The amount of players we've bought, plus the amount of promising youngsters we have, plus the key players we have coming back from injury in the next few months tell me that this could take all season to become coherant.

With any new signings in January to come - this could seriously be 2 seasons worth of finding our feet and a system that works.

The bigger question, I think, is this - would a better manager get this done quicker and more successfully?
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: terrydarracotsbaldpate on September 24, 2017, 04:03:22 AM
What age is Rashford he seems ready
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: EVERTON 66 on September 24, 2017, 04:18:22 AM
I mentioned in another thread that Kenny n lookman should be playing regularly in this team I got laughed at don't think they r laughing so much now !!
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Bluedylan on September 24, 2017, 04:19:01 AM
What age is Rashford he seems ready

It helps that he's already brilliant.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on September 24, 2017, 01:31:23 PM
Davies not just ready he's fuckin vital, good time to blood Kenny nothing to lose until Seamus is back, DCL thrown off his Bamby legs ready to start all important games now, not sure about Lookman yet was being knocked off too easy, but may have strengthened up hope we will be finding out soon, if it's at the expense of some of the "superstar" signings that's fine.
     Still time for the manager to manage well... we'll see.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Paddockoldie on September 24, 2017, 01:54:47 PM
Not sure Holgate is as good as we seem to think.

I think the physicality of playing CB is where Holgate struggles, besides some positional and decision making. Out field I think they can show other qualities. Davies is ready and I'd rather we have Kenny at RB. I think Dowell will be ready next season. No need for us to panic.... this is Everton and I've been around long enough to know we bounce back eventually. Before we became champions we played some shite at times. But the kids, if good enough should get a shot.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: BlueBeagle on September 24, 2017, 02:01:27 PM
What age is Rashford he seems ready

How the fuck is that even slightly relevant?

Rooney was ready at 16, that doesn't mean that every player in the world is good to go at that age.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Macca77 on September 24, 2017, 03:21:33 PM
Kenny reminds me of a young Baines, bombing it up and down the wing
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 24, 2017, 03:44:57 PM
Not sure Holgate is as good as we seem to think.
He’s still a kid and needs games to learn and get the mistakes out of his system. There’s a reason the likes of Mourinho wouldn’t have a kid anywhere near the centre of defence.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 24, 2017, 03:51:53 PM
Kenny reminds me of a young Baines, bombing it up and down the wing
I’ve been calling for him to be in the team and I hope he starts from now until Coleman is back. I just worry that there’s a glaring reason Koeman hasn’t played him and if it was to get exposed then he fans would get on his back. I’ve said before - if he looked like Cafu in training, he’d be on the team. I hope when the youthful enthusiasm and adrenaline wear off it’s not a case of ‘ahhhh, so he’s a fucking dreadful at X, that’s why he couldn’t get in the team’.

Yes, this is a veiled reference at Luke Garbutt.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: BlueNoseMike on September 24, 2017, 04:04:39 PM
What age is Rashford he seems ready

He got a slice of luck with the fact that United were so depleted with injuries at the time. He then took his chance and then last season was in and out of the team when United had more experienced players available.


Everyone can bash Koeman as much as they want. But they can't bash him for giving youngsters a chance.

Last season teenagers played over 2,000 minutes combined for us in the premier league. Apart from United (1924) no other team played teenagers for more than 500 minutes combined. On top of that Koeman wasn't afraid to play kids when required (Pennington, Holgate was 20 by October last year).

Just think it's easy look for things to have a go at Koeman for and because some of the experienced players are struggling all of a sudden Koeman needs to play the kids and doesn't give them a chance.

Like I say, bash him for inept tactics, team shape, signings. But to have a go about giving youngsters a chance is a tad unfair. IMO of course
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: MrWhite on September 24, 2017, 04:53:42 PM
I’ve been calling for him to be in the team and I hope he starts from now until Coleman is back. I just worry that there’s a glaring reason Koeman hasn’t played him and if it was to get exposed then he fans would get on his back. I’ve said before - if he looked like Cafu in training, he’d be on the team. I hope when the youthful enthusiasm and adrenaline wear off it’s not a case of ‘ahhhh, so he’s a fucking dreadful at X, that’s why he couldn’t get in the team’.

Yes, this is a veiled reference at Luke Garbutt.

I suspect that he was hesitant to start Kenny due to having bought Martina, preferring to stick with a player he knows rather than risk a debut starter. The fact that he was kept and not sent on loan, and having captained the U23 always suggested he was the next to break through, but with Holgate playing a bit he was properly concerned at putting too much pressure and possibly setting Kenny's development back if it all went wrong.

I'm pleased that the first 'should be winning' game since Stoke gave Kenny his chance. Hopefully Martina's injury will allow Kenny to play a bit more in the next few games and show he's worthy of being first choice until Seamus returns. I think Kenny has the potential to be great, and has only been held back in comparison to Davies due to his position. Midfielders can afford more mistakes than defenders. Holgate gets in because of his prior experience.

The whole thing about not playing kids because they are more likely to make mistakes and get the crowd on their backs is bogus. We have plenty of highly experienced players making silly mistakes and getting it from the crowd. I'm looking at you Ashley, although you are far from alone..
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Sir Stealth on September 24, 2017, 09:17:35 PM
That Davies/Kenny/Calvert-Lewin link up near the end was delicious wasn't it

More of that please!

All 3 of them knew exactly where the others were moving/going to be and played the right passes. That u23 set up has definitely helped how some of our squad link up

Our potential below par transfer window has at least led to some opportunities for some of the kids
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 24, 2017, 09:21:00 PM
That Davies/Kenny/Calvert-Lewin link up near the end was delicious wasn't it

More of that please!

All 3 of them knew exactly where the others were moving/going to be and played the right passes. That u23 set up has definitely helped how some of our squad link up

Our potential below par transfer window has at least led to some opportunities for some of the kids


been wanting these 3 to start now for a while, always got shat on by nsno posters who assume they know better, but havent even seen these lads play for the under 23s  and rate Koemans signings as better wanting to give them time to gel..

Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: gizzblue on September 24, 2017, 09:31:11 PM

been wanting these 3 to start now for a while, always got shat on by nsno posters who assume they know better, but havent even seen these lads play for the under 23s  and rate Koemans signings as better wanting to give them time to gel..
Unfortunately for some it seems no matter how good they are for the under 23's a lot on here would prefer throwing money left and right for no better than we alredy have ...  most can spot a good player even if the kid is on the park on a Saturday ....others just play fifa way too much .

I mean that's what the academy is for ...future.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Brownie20 on September 24, 2017, 09:45:42 PM
Sporting a kid with ability is easy. What is not easy is finding out if their ability matches their temprament of that their ability is going to keep developing along with the rest of the attributes needed to succeed as a top professional in any sport. The way to do that is to introduce them gradually into a first team environment. It's not ideal throwing them in in a situation that is negative and say either sink or swim.

It's great to see the likes of Davies, DCL, Holgate and Kenny getting a chance but I hope those who are enthusiastically banging the drum for them aren't going to be having a go when things don't go so well. These kids need time and experience. Look at Garbutt for example. There were loads of people wanking themselves silly because of one good game. Where is he now?
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 24, 2017, 10:00:11 PM
Sporting a kid with ability is easy. What is not easy is finding out if their ability matches their temprament of that their ability is going to keep developing along with the rest of the attributes needed to succeed as a top professional in any sport. The way to do that is to introduce them gradually into a first team environment. It's not ideal throwing them in in a situation that is negative and say either sink or swim.

It's great to see the likes of Davies, DCL, Holgate and Kenny getting a chance but I hope those who are enthusiastically banging the drum for them aren't going to be having a go when things don't go so well. These kids need time and experience. Look at Garbutt for example. There were loads of people wanking themselves silly because of one good game. Where is he now?


If we had kept Garbutt around at the club instead of shipping him off on loan, he would have been different to how he is now, He lost impotous, Evertonians who play for us, need to be in and around the club, going out on loan just destroys some of them..

the best way for time and experience is playing the players, instead of shelling out 100m-200m on players that are not utalized to their optimum for various reasons.

Also a lot of posters stated that Kenny wasnt good enough, also said DCL wasnt good enough, with out even watching them play.. the audacity of some is just splash the cash, Koeman knows best.

Growing up, Everton always gave Evertonians a chance to prove themselves.. Evertonians are the best Everton players.. (players coming through the youth system)
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: ally2 on September 24, 2017, 10:11:25 PM
Everyone loves Kenny. It's just not everyone's completely convinced when would/would have been the best time to introduce him. My own view is that Koeman sees all the players and to suggest that he would purposely not play a kid even if he was tearing it up by every measure is ludicrous. But that's how warped some fans' minds are over Koeman.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 24, 2017, 10:19:20 PM
I'd consider myself a keen supporter of our u23 set-up, and have been bemused why in particular Kenny has struggled to get a sniff.

Despite that, and the boys done good yesterday, no way is there enough evidence for all these 'I told you so' type opinions!

Some people are far too quick to take one example of some yoofs +honorary member Oumar turning a match to try to stick it to everyone else that hasn't backed the kids playing to the hilt, it's one match f.f.s.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Evertonian in NC on September 24, 2017, 10:38:57 PM
I think Holgate was at fault for the goal, but he was also being asked to do way too much, being next to a stationary partner in Williams and a RB who doesn't move/react well defensively in Martina.

When you combine that with the fact that we haven't been able to get him CB time in less stressful/preparatory settings at the Prem/Cup level, I think it's rash to judge him.  He's VERY physical at RB, I think he should be fine at CB.  He'd learn a great deal next to Keane and/or Jags.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 24, 2017, 10:44:37 PM
I'd consider myself a keen supporter of our u23 set-up, and have been bemused why in particular Kenny has struggled to get a sniff.

Despite that, and the boys done good yesterday, no way is there enough evidence for all these 'I told you so' type opinions!

Some people are far too quick to take one example of some yoofs +honorary member Oumar turning a match to try to stick it to everyone else that hasn't backed the kids playing to the hilt, it's one match f.f.s.
Be best if he doesn't get a Sniff..... Looked what happened to his cousin
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Martip on September 24, 2017, 10:47:30 PM
I d much rather a kid make a mistake as part of the learning process than a limited player constantly making mistakes.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Faceatthefence on September 24, 2017, 10:49:46 PM

If we had kept Garbutt around at the club instead of shipping him off on loan, he would have been different to how he is now, He lost impotous, Evertonians who play for us, need to be in and around the club, going out on loan just destroys some of them..

the best way for time and experience is playing the players, instead of shelling out 100m-200m on players that are not utalized to their optimum for various reasons.

Also a lot of posters stated that Kenny wasnt good enough, also said DCL wasnt good enough, with out even watching them play.. the audacity of some is just splash the cash, Koeman knows best.

Growing up, Everton always gave Evertonians a chance to prove themselves.. Evertonians are the best Everton players.. (players coming through the youth system)
Felt Garbutt was developing  really well for us and was a ready made cover/replacement for Bainsey.But he hasnt kicked on for the reasons you stated,good player in there somewhere.Errors have been made and will be again ie Dier and Mustafa
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 24, 2017, 10:59:34 PM
"The Untold Potential Of Garbutt" love-in is more nonsense from folks preaching to follow the U23s. He's been shown up for fancying himself whenever he's been asked to graft in the Championship, a dire shame to be sure but staying with us playing less competitive football would not have solved his predilection for shampoo!

Look at Coleman, putting in some graft with Blackpool was a crucial start of making him eligible to play for us. In the meantime Luke can't impress at Fulham or Wigan.

p.s. Impotous, that is one of your best/worst misspellings yet bro lolol
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 24, 2017, 11:00:48 PM




Growing up, Everton always gave Evertonians a chance to prove themselves.. Evertonians are the best Everton players.. (players coming through the youth system)
Yet the large majority of best Everton players were signed and not youth products

I'm all for bringing lads through but you are ott with it

If they are good enough they will get in, if they aren't they won't.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: SANA_DR0 on September 24, 2017, 11:07:40 PM
"The Untold Potential Of Garbutt" love-in is more nonsense from folks preaching to follow the U23s. He's been shown up for fancying himself whenever he's been asked to graft in the Championship, a dire shame to be sure but staying with us playing less competitive football would not have solved his predilection for shampoo!

Look at Coleman, putting in some graft with Blackpool was a crucial start of making him eligible to play for us. In the meantime Luke can't impress at Fulham or Wigan.

p.s. Impotous, that is one of your best/worst misspellings yet bro lolol

dont make me start using spell check :p

Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Brownie20 on September 24, 2017, 11:13:47 PM

If we had kept Garbutt around at the club instead of shipping him off on loan, he would have been different to how he is now, He lost impotous, Evertonians who play for us, need to be in and around the club, going out on loan just destroys some of them..

the best way for time and experience is playing the players, instead of shelling out 100m-200m on players that are not utalized to their optimum for various reasons.

Also a lot of posters stated that Kenny wasnt good enough, also said DCL wasnt good enough, with out even watching them play.. the audacity of some is just splash the cash, Koeman knows best.

Growing up, Everton always gave Evertonians a chance to prove themselves.. Evertonians are the best Everton players.. (players coming through the youth system)

young players 95% of the time need to go out on loan to lower league clubs to toughen them up and get used to the rigours of professional football. That is what aids their development more than being thrown straight in to a PL (unless they are a very special talent). Coleman being the prime example.

I can give you an example from rugby. There's a lad coming through now in Wales who I've helped to coach at age grade called Leon Brown (no relation). He's being touted as the best young tight head prop in Wales. He's on the books at the Dragons and they threw him into a few games when they were struggling and he wasn't ready. So instead he was sent to the Premiership for a season and that year playing against seasoned, grizzled front rowers has been the making of him. He's now starting week
In week out for the Dragons and will be in the Welsh squad sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Lxxx on September 24, 2017, 11:14:00 PM
Can't help but think Galloway has been mismanaged in a similar way Garbutt was over the past few years. There's no way these two were not good enough for at least one of them to have been invested in, trained with the 1st team squad and developed to be kept around for the odd game when it's time to rest Baines in the cups maybe. We have no other left footed players in the first team squad apart from Baines, it's criminal to have just one left footed player.
Sometimes loans are not the be all and end all for every young player.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Marky Mark and the funky on September 24, 2017, 11:47:01 PM
Can't help but think Galloway has been mismanaged in a similar way Garbutt was over the past few years. There's no way these two were not good enough for at least one of them to have been invested in, trained with the 1st team squad and developed to be kept around for the odd game when it's time to rest Baines in the cups maybe. We have no other left footed players in the first team squad apart from Baines, it's criminal to have just one left footed player.
Sometimes loans are not the be all and end all for every young player.

Using Galloway to stick up for Garbutt lolol

Galloway has done nothing since Baines came back and knocked him out of our first team. From all accounts I've read he couldn't be bothered to play for the U23s after that. I saw how bad he was for WBA and could not argue with him being dropped. Not getting another opportunity did seem harsh, however...

Now on loan at Sunderland and he's been poor there as well, not getting into the team ahead of Matthews who is a terrible player! I saw some of their pre-season and earliest matches, he plays like a Cuco Martina that cannot cross, the version of Brendan that covered Baines in 2015 hasn't been seen since!

Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: gizzblue on September 25, 2017, 12:16:27 AM
Sporting a kid with ability is easy. What is not easy is finding out if their ability matches their temprament of that their ability is going to keep developing along with the rest of the attributes needed to succeed as a top professional in any sport. The way to do that is to introduce them gradually into a first team environment. It's not ideal throwing them in in a situation that is negative and say either sink or swim.

It's great to see the likes of Davies, DCL, Holgate and Kenny getting a chance but I hope those who are enthusiastically banging the drum for them aren't going to be having a go when things don't go so well. These kids need time and experience. Look at Garbutt for example. There were loads of people wanking themselves silly because of one good game. Where is he now?
The beauty is we tend to give our own more time ....just look at Barkley ...no consistent run of games in four or so years and some still think he's the messiah.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Lxxx on September 25, 2017, 12:53:10 AM
Using Galloway to stick up for Garbutt lolol

Galloway has done nothing since Baines came back and knocked him out of our first team. From all accounts I've read he couldn't be bothered to play for the U23s after that. I saw how bad he was for WBA and could not argue with him being dropped. Not getting another opportunity did seem harsh, however...

Now on loan at Sunderland and he's been poor there as well, not getting into the team ahead of Matthews who is a terrible player! I saw some of their pre-season and earliest matches, he plays like a Cuco Martina that cannot cross, the version of Brendan that covered Baines in 2015 hasn't been seen since!



I'm not defending the players as they are now but somewhere along the line they showed decent potential in the first team and then lost their way. Just a shame they'll probably never play for us again but at a time when we've been left exposed in that position there were two who we could have maybe developed differently.
However hindsight is a great thing and they may have just not been good enough but we'll never know now.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: Jamokachi on September 25, 2017, 07:44:57 AM
If we had kept Garbutt around at the club...

Growing up, Everton always gave Evertonians a chance to prove themselves.. Evertonians are the best Everton players.. (players coming through the youth system)

Luke Garbutt was signed from Leeds.
Title: Re: Nonsense about kids not being ready
Post by: formerKHL on September 25, 2017, 08:40:04 PM
young players development is a very delicate subject and is very dependant on the individual themselves. Some players can take a development knock ie: playing up a level then getting dropped back to their own level....some players cant take it and see it as "the club don't fancy me" scenario....the art is then to keep the player "interested"....

some players do not like being loaned out for various reasons and some players jump at the chance.

either way it's how they learn from the experience, take it all on board and use it as a learning/development curve which aides...or hinders their progress through to the first team....