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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:16:36 AM

Title: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:16:36 AM
I donít see why he should get off the hook, considering the mess we are in so thought Iíd start this.

Apart from bullying a couple of poorer teams out of their well established, better players, what has he achieved since being here?

After the dross Martinez signed and saddled Koeman with, we adopted the DoF approach - to provide more continuity and structure to our recruitment policy. If at any point we decide to change manager (which is looking increasingly likely), the new one should be able to slot in nicely, with a top squad at his disposal. Is this the case?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 12:18:28 AM
BOTH THE CUNTS
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheTone on October 02, 2017, 12:18:35 AM
sack em all
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: hill135 on October 02, 2017, 12:19:00 AM
No.

The signings have been hit-and-miss for sure but none of us actually know the division of responsibility in terms of scouting and recruiting players. We can only speculate as to who is responsible for our shoddy recruitment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:19:47 AM
Don't really see what he brings except confusion
We are the only club stupid enough to employ him because of the "role" he played in Leicester winning the prem.
His role was minimal at best & we make him our director of football, it's pathetic
Yes I'd sack him immediately
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:21:01 AM
No.

The signings have been hit-and-miss for sure but none of us actually know the division of responsibility in terms of scouting and recruiting players. We can only speculate as to who is responsible for our shoddy recruitment.

Why wouldn't you sack him? Are you suggesting he might not play a role in any of the signings?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheTone on October 02, 2017, 12:25:50 AM
never been a fan of directors of football

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 12:27:28 AM
Why wouldn't you sack him? Are you suggesting he might not play a role in any of the signings?

the signings are not the issue, its Koemans use of them, Plus Koeman has stated a few times that other players where lined up, but he wasnt happy with them.. so good enough for Walsh(who has a good track record on finding players) but not good enough for Koeman.. who has a shit eye for players.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 12:28:24 AM
As far as I am aware he doesn't pick the team so on that basis we can have less of a case for him facing the boot than the man whose job it is to motivate the players and send them out in a workable system.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 12:31:16 AM
As far as I am aware he doesn't pick the team so on that basis we can have less of a case for him facing the boot than the man whose job it is to motivate the players and send them out in a workable system.

Just on the other side of the coin, the manager would have an easier job if the required players had been brought in for him.

Note: Koeman should be doing better regardless of course.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:32:30 AM
the signings are not the issue, its Koemans use of them, Plus Koeman has stated a few times that other players where lined up, but he wasnt happy with them.. so good enough for Walsh(who has a good track record on finding players) but not good enough for Koeman.. who has a shit eye for players.

Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 12:34:15 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

Could you really? Or are you just being silly now?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:34:42 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

Why do you keep bringing that up regarding Kante and Mahrez, even when it isnít even mentioned in the post you quoted?!

Walsh had a great hand in the squad assembled at Leicester regardless of it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:35:37 AM
Why do you keep bringing that up regarding Kante and Mahrez, even when it isnít even mentioned in the post you quoted?!

Walsh had a great hand in the squad assembled at Leicester regardless of it.

Who would you think he means when he says Walsh had a good record of finding players?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 02, 2017, 12:36:22 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

when i went to the match on Thursday, my mate said that i play better than Evertons players.. lol

i dont care on the value of the players. its all arbitrary.. its the players koeman wanted,
I disagree with the Walsh comments, but over all, Koeman said no to a few signings.. regardless Koeman is the one who works with the players, regardless who buys them.
Even if you bought better players, Koeman needs to fit them into a system that is productive.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:36:33 AM
Could you really? Or are you just being silly now?

I genuinely believe I could sign 3 better players with £100m let's face it Brownie it wouldn't be hard would it?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:38:25 AM
Who would you think he means when he says Walsh had a good record of finding players?

Youíre the one who thinks Walsh is shit and isnít worth his salt. You do the digging amd find who he did and didnít sign. Put it on yer YouTube channel.

I canít be fucked.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:39:18 AM
Youíre the one who thinks Walsh is shit and isnít worth his salt. You do the digging amd find who he did and didnít sign. Put it on yer YouTube channel.

I canít be fucked.

I already did do the digging, that's why I stated what I did
Why begin engaging then if you "can't be fucked"?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:40:48 AM
Why begin engaging then if you "can't be fucked"?

Very careless of me to ďengageĒ in the first place really.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:41:30 AM
Very careless of me to ďengageĒ in the first place really.

Eh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:42:58 AM
No.

The signings have been hit-and-miss for sure but none of us actually know the division of responsibility in terms of scouting and recruiting players. We can only speculate as to who is responsible for our shoddy recruitment.
Surely a DoF means someone IS now accountable?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: The Analog Kid on October 02, 2017, 12:43:09 AM
Eh?

I meant....... I really shouldnít have gotten involved in the first place as I canít be arsed carrying on arguing the toss with a Hugh Fernly Whittingstall lookalike.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:45:12 AM
I meant....... I really shouldnít have gotten involved in the first place as I canít be arsed carrying on arguing the toss with a Hugh Fernly Whittingstall lookalike.

 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:46:19 AM
As far as I am aware he doesn't pick the team so on that basis we can have less of a case for him facing the boot than the man whose job it is to motivate the players and send them out in a workable system.
To motivate the likes of Niasse, Vasic and DCL? Not exactly world-beaters.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 12:46:34 AM
Walsh didn't find Kante or Mahrez, as for the signings not being an issue - I disagree - is Keane worth £30m, Schneiderlin £25m, Sigurdsson £45m?
There's £100m - I could sign better players with that money

I asked a couple of weeks ago who bought in what players...keoman =  martina rooney schneiderlin siggs bolasie williams maybe klassen

walsh = gueye  sandro  pickford keane 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 12:47:32 AM
Just on the other side of the coin, the manager would have an easier job if the required players had been brought in for him.

Note: Koeman should be doing better regardless of course.
This
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:47:53 AM
I asked a couple of weeks ago who bought in what players...keoman =  martina rooney schneiderlin siggs bolasie williams maybe klassen

walsh = gueye  sandro  pickford keane

Who told you that?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: D3blue on October 02, 2017, 12:48:24 AM
I have to say I'm against the idea of a DoF, probably because I never understood exactly what their function is.  It seems to be just a means to pass the buck between manager and DoF...
Let's face it, none of us knows whether RK of SW identified our recent signings....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 12:50:11 AM
I genuinely believe I could sign 3 better players with £100m let's face it Brownie it wouldn't be hard would it?

Then you are a self delusional egotist.

But let's look at it logically

Are you complaining about the quality of the player, the fee or both?

Firstly the players - two are both established Prem players and international players, the third has just broken into the England side and is highly rated. Schneiderlin was excellent when he came in. Don't know what's up with him at the minute but he's not a bad player. Sigurdsson needs to play the number 10 role, not be out on the wing. Keane has the attributes to be a top draw centre half, he needs someone quick beside him.

The fees, as has been said before, are ridiculous but that is the climate we are in.

So, that leaves looking st players from abroad - how good is your scouting network? Do you know some players who you would take a punt on?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 12:50:15 AM
never been a fan of directors of football


Dennis wise was the first 1 i remember, Dennis Wise i mean Dennis fuckin Wise, it's a non job, it's like a civil service job, they give them to people with no fuckin use in the real fuckin world what so ever.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 12:52:33 AM
Who told you that?

Just guessing like
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Azz on October 02, 2017, 12:53:38 AM
It's a no brainer surely.   The guy is a fraud.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 12:55:08 AM
Just guessing like

😂
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 01:00:22 AM
Then you are a self delusional egotist.

But let's look at it logically

Are you complaining about the quality of the player, the fee or both?

Firstly the players - two are both established Prem players and international players, the third has just broken into the England side and is highly rated. Schneiderlin was excellent when he came in. Don't know what's up with him at the minute but he's not a bad player. Sigurdsson needs to play the number 10 role, not be out on the wing. Keane has the attributes to be a top draw centre half, he needs someone quick beside him.

The fees, as has been said before, are ridiculous but that is the climate we are in.

So, that leaves looking st players from abroad - how good is your scouting network? Do you know some players who you would take a punt on?

I'm complaining about the quality & the fees
Keane hasn't just "broken" into the England side at all, is he gonna be a regular from now on? No. You say he's highly rated - by who?

Infact I'd say I'm almost certain I could've done better with the money, we can throw Bolasie in too if you want? That gives me £128m for four players
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on October 02, 2017, 01:02:31 AM
sack em all

(http://img37.laughinggif.com/pic/HTTPS93d3cuZ2Vlay5jb20vd3AtY29udGVudC91cGxvYWRzLzIwMTYvMDYvYnVybi10aGVtLWFsbC5naWYlog.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 01:16:30 AM
I'm complaining about the quality & the fees
Keane hasn't just "broken" into the England side at all, is he gonna be a regular from now on? No. You say he's highly rated - by who?

Infact I'd say I'm almost certain I could've done better with the money, we can throw Bolasie in too if you want? That gives me £128m for four players

So he didn't play for England against Germany then? I must have imagined it. Quite a few pundits last year were talking about him highly on football shows and in newspaper or magazine collumns. Many saying he'd be at a big club in the not so distant future.

I thought you were just being flippant at first but if you genuinely think that you, Mr joe public, with no experience of anything regarding football transfer at the elite level, then that is hilarious.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 02, 2017, 01:29:18 AM
We don't really know what Walsh's full remit is at the club. I understand that he and Koeman meet often to discuss transfer targets and the kind of players that the manager wants to work with for the Everton squad. With regards to the actual negotiations and trying to get the players to come in, it sounds like Kenwright is still very much involved especially as it was him that was involved in bringing Sigurdsson to Everton - a player that Koeman has wanted since he was Southampton manager.

Players like Keane, Pickford, Klaassen, Sandro, Sigurdsson, Rooney, Schneiderlin and Gana are meant to be very good, if the manager does not know what to do with these very good players (that he wanted) and get them to play well with their natural ability then something is seriously wrong on the coaching side.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 01:31:49 AM
So he didn't play for England against Germany then? I must have imagined it. Quite a few pundits last year were talking about him highly on football shows and in newspaper or magazine collumns. Many saying he'd be at a big club in the not so distant future.

I thought you were just being flippant at first but if you genuinely think that you, Mr joe public, with no experience of anything regarding football transfer at the elite level, then that is hilarious.

A friendly - in March? Has he played since? No, so he's hardly broken into the team has he?
Articles, columns blah blah blah - he'll never play for a big team - he's nowhere near good enough

And yes I was deadly serious - £128m to find 4 better players than Keane, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson & Bolasie?
No danger and I'd probably have change too
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on October 02, 2017, 01:37:46 AM
I've got massive questions marks over the whole structure of the club at the moment

From boardroom to the Koeman/Walsh axis.

I'm kinda thinking it's been a massive mess since Moshiri come in tbh.

Not calling for his head or anything like that, but it's been a bit chaotic, hasn't it?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 01:49:57 AM
when i went to the match on Thursday, my mate said that i play better than Evertons players.. lol

i dont care on the value of the players. its all arbitrary.. its the players koeman wanted,
I disagree with the Walsh comments, but over all, Koeman said no to a few signings.. regardless Koeman is the one who works with the players, regardless who buys them.
Even if you bought better players, Koeman needs to fit them into a system that is productive.

Don't we need a system first?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 01:53:52 AM
That last Sky phone in was mad like, but someone said the Mosh was just trying to win a VW Polo and 25 grand but phoned the wrong pemium number, so he's sane as apparently.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 01:57:35 AM
A friendly - in March? Has he played since? No, so he's hardly broken into the team has he?
Articles, columns blah blah blah - he'll never play for a big team - he's nowhere near good enough

And yes I was deadly serious - £128m to find 4 better players than Keane, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson & Bolasie?
No danger and I'd probably have change too

You know when you go blah blah blah? That's really petulant and you lose all credibility in any discussions that you enter into. You asked me who rated him, I told you where to look. If you want to debate properly do it. If not don't ask questions you either don't like the answers to or don't fit your agenda.

Again, if you think it's so easy To go and buy these superstars, chuck your CV into the club. I'm sure they'll be glad to get it. It's not an easy job though. I was doing a bit of transfer dealing in the summer to get a centre down from one of the Valley clubs to play for us. That was fucking hard work and we were only dealing with a budget of £10k.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 02:04:16 AM
That last Sky phone in was mad like, but someone said the Mosh was just trying to win a VW Polo and 25 grand but phoned the wrong pemium number, so he's sane as apparently.

Eh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 02, 2017, 02:07:19 AM
Does anyone know if Leicester replaced Walsh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 02:07:40 AM
You know when you go blah blah blah? That's really petulant and you lose all credibility in any discussions that you enter into. You asked me who rated him, I told you where to look. If you want to debate properly do it. If not don't ask questions you either don't like the answers to or don't fit your agenda.

Again, if you think it's so easy To go and buy these superstars, chuck your CV into the club. I'm sure they'll be glad to get it. It's not an easy job though. I was doing a bit of transfer dealing in the summer to get a centre down from one of the Valley clubs to play for us. That was fucking hard work and we were only dealing with a budget of £10k.

I just meant it's just journalists, sports writers etc they're irrelevant really. I don't think I really lose credibility
But yeah I could've bought better players for less money
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 02:10:03 AM
That last Sky phone in was mad like, but someone said the Mosh was just trying to win a VW Polo and 25 grand but phoned the wrong pemium number, so he's sane as apparently.
Meant to quote Ram on Moshiri. but it all went Burnley
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 02:12:10 AM
I just meant it's just journalists, sports writers etc they're irrelevant really. I don't think I really lose credibility
But yeah I could've bought better players for less money


Must be great on your planet
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 02:23:51 AM
Must be great on your planet

My world is wonderful thanks, have a nice evening Brownie 👍
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 02:59:31 AM
I still think the players we bought are good players so for me the issue is largely not to do with recruitment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on October 02, 2017, 03:02:43 AM
I disagree 100% with the people saying we don't need a position like this. Nobody good gives the manager complete control over footballing decisions anymore. Even clubs with unlimited spending power have realized how dumb it is to put recruitment and the hiring of backroom staff entirely in the hands of the manager. The do-it-all manager model is totally outdated and unless we want to fall even further behind the best clubs in England, there's no reason we should go back to it.

With that said, I'd be comfortable with the club giving Walsh the axe and starting over, this time with the director of football being hired before the manager. Maybe Koeman has made his job difficult but I don't see anything in him that's going to give us an edge over the clubs we want to compete with and the rumours of him having "baggage" are disturbing. We need more than an old-school English scout who's smashed a handful of transfers if we want to be competitive in England and in Europe.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:14:40 AM
I disagree 100% with the people saying we don't need a position like this. Nobody good gives the manager complete control over footballing decisions anymore. Even clubs with unlimited spending power have realized how dumb it is to put recruitment and the hiring of backroom staff entirely in the hands of the manager. The do-it-all manager model is totally outdated and unless we want to fall even further behind the best clubs in England, there's no reason we should go back to it.

With that said, I'd be comfortable with the club giving Walsh the axe and starting over, this time with the director of football being hired before the manager. Maybe Koeman has made his job difficult but I don't see anything in him that's going to give us an edge over the clubs we want to compete with and the rumours of him having "baggage" are disturbing. We need more than an old-school English scout who's smashed a handful of transfers if we want to be competitive in England and in Europe.

Sounds very sensible.

My first problem with the 'Should we sack Walsh?' thread is this:

Does anybody know exactly what his remit is, what his targets are and what he is measured against?

My second problem is this:

Does anyone actually know if he is achieving his targets, under-performing, over-achieving or failing?

Basically at this stage I have not heard anything to say if he is doing a good job or a bad job so what would calls to sack him even be based on?

Knee-jerks.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:20:00 AM
I've got massive questions marks over the whole structure of the club at the moment

From boardroom to the Koeman/Walsh axis.

I'm kinda thinking it's been a massive mess since Moshiri come in tbh.

Not calling for his head or anything like that, but it's been a bit chaotic, hasn't it?


Not sure I agree.

I think there have been loads of positives - more than I even expected/hoped for in such a short space of time (transfer money/activity, Bramley Moore Dock, sponsorships), but they have all really been off the pitch.

I think it's on the pitch I agree with you. That's where it's been shit.

But I don't think he's the kind of person to tolerate poor results in any area of his business for long - especially the most high-profile area that most directly affects the business.

Plus he was at Arsenal for years being cock-blocked by Kronke - the thought of actually being able to fire a manager with a better one if he wants to means it's probably top of his Bucket List now.   :)

(http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/94484667-53b8-4117-b336-340a5f3cbc11/05ceb0dc-aac5-45e0-8819-ab6f29ee3465.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 03:21:27 AM
Sounds very sensible.

My first problem with the 'Should we sack Walsh?' thread is this:

Does anybody know exactly what his remit is, what his targets are and what he is measured against?

My second problem is this:

Does anyone actually know if he is achieving his targets, under-performing, over-achieving or failing?

Basically at this stage I have not heard anything to say if he is doing a good job or a bad job so what would calls to sack him even be based on?

Knee-jerks.

The state of the team vs money spent is my guess
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 03:26:45 AM
If we are saying the players brought in are largely his responsibility are we saying these signings are poor because I am not having that really. Aside from Williams (who no one could have guessed would be this shit) and Martina who is an obvious stop gap I don't think any of the signings are poor they are performing poorly. The only criticism at Walsh's door for me right now is where the hell a striker is.

I don't think his role is all encompassing as we imagine though. Martina, Schneiderlin, Sigurddsson are all out and out Koeman signings for a start. Is our scouting network failing as well? Who is responsible for the youth signings as Onyekuru is looking like a find for a start.

I don't think it's a tangible role for us as fans to figure out whereas you can actually see the impact or not of Koeman on the pitch
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:32:26 AM
The state of the team vs money spent is my guess

Ok so we got rid of players like Cleverly, Barry, Kone, Deulofeo and McGeady and brought in Pickford, Keane, Rooney, Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Onyekuru for what is not a massive net spend.

I would say that the state of the team is massively improved and money well spent largely on youth with great potential futures and a couple of established star performers in the premier League. Massive improvement.

I do not include Lukaku in this and neither should you because Lukaku was not a 'decision' to get rid of - otherwise he would still be here - the fact of the matter was we simply could not hold on to Lukaku any longer and that was no-one's fault.

The 'state of the team' as you put it - is I think the responsibility of the manager - not Walsh.

So considering he has improved personnel (unless you want to swap and get Cleverly and the others back instead?) and have not spent loads (according to some posters on here - me I don't give a shit it's all Monopoly money at this stage) - tell me how you think he's done?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Heisenberg on October 02, 2017, 03:40:52 AM
We signed loads of good players but with no plan of how to make a team with them
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 03:44:43 AM
The state of the team vs money spent is my guess

Surely that depends on which are his signings and which are koemans though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 02, 2017, 03:46:52 AM
We signed loads of good players but with no plan of how to make a team with them

So then another question is - 'Was the team plan Walsh's, Koeman's or both of theirs?"

Sacking Walsh might be good, might be right - I'm just saying "How the fuck do we know when we don't even know what his job is or how well he's doing it?"
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 03:49:15 AM
Not on board with sacking Walsh. I like some of his signings.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 03:51:48 AM
Ok so we got rid of players like Cleverly, Barry, Kone, Deulofeo and McGeady and brought in Pickford, Keane, Rooney, Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Onyekuru for what is not a massive net spend.

I would say that the state of the team is massively improved and money well spent largely on youth with great potential futures and a couple of established star performers in the premier League. Massive improvement.

I do not include Lukaku in this and neither should you because Lukaku was not a 'decision' to get rid of - otherwise he would still be here - the fact of the matter was we simply could not hold on to Lukaku any longer and that was no-one's fault.

The 'state of the team' as you put it - is I think the responsibility of the manager - not Walsh.

So considering he has improved personnel (unless you want to swap and get Cleverly and the others back instead?) and have not spent loads (according to some posters on here - me I don't give a shit it's all Monopoly money at this stage) - tell me how you think he's done?

Lukaku has to feature in any talk about the state of the squad - whether it was forced or not, he's probably a top 10 striker in the world, now we don't have a proper striker at all in the squad, we haven't even attempted to replace him!
"Potential great futures" doesn't really cut it for me when they've spent £220m+ on players since they arrived here.
"A couple of established star performers?" - the only one I see is Sigurdsson. You may argue Rooney but he's clearly not the player he once was.
Walsh is responsible for this shit too
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: arteta4spain on October 02, 2017, 03:53:22 AM
Haven't a few on here said that Koeman and Walsh don't see eye to eye? If this is true maybe there's friction and Koemans finding it hard to integrate all the players. But it sounds like he's alienating some players and forcing himself into fitting square pegs in round holes. I'd say it's more down to Koeman than Walsh but I don't think he's helping the situation either.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Silas on October 02, 2017, 03:55:43 AM
We don't know if he is though that's the point. I wouldn't say we didn't attempt to replace Lukaku but we did fail too. Remember as well it is Koeman who has insisted on increased productivity and goals all over the pitch, something most of us were into when he sold it. He's failed to deliver on that one thus far.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 03:59:46 AM
We don't know if he is though that's the point. I wouldn't say we didn't attempt to replace Lukaku but we did fail too. Remember as well it is Koeman who has insisted on increased productivity and goals all over the pitch, something most of us were into when he sold it. He's failed to deliver on that one thus far.

I can't imagine Walsh had free reign to sign a striker. I think more likely koeman had a very short list for him to work from and Walsh can't force anyone to sign for us

The impression I get rightly or wrongly is that all the cheaper punts are walsh's and all the big money buys are what koeman has asked for. If that's the case no Walsh shouldn't be sacked and koeman clearly has too much power and not enough talent
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 04:04:52 AM
Not on board with sacking Walsh. I like some of his signings.

You don't know who he's bought
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on October 02, 2017, 04:06:09 AM
never been a fan of directors of football



I can see the irony. We have a director of football for the first time but our football is directionless.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: toffee_scot on October 02, 2017, 04:12:56 AM
I'm glad we went for the Director of Football approach especially as in the past we've had managers with a very large remit, the problem with the old 'manager does everything' system is you are assuming that the manager will be there for the long term and with the example of Martinez, he seemed to have quite a large say in how Finch Farm was upgraded with extra bedrooms or whatever it was he felt suited his philosophy. He's gone and the current manager has a completely different way of looking at football which risks overhauling the system influenced by the previous manager.

For me the Director of Football should provide continuity on the footballing side of the club and help Everton establish some sort of consistent footballing principle or philosophy that reflects the development of the club. So when a new manager comes in after the old one is sacked or moves to another club, they have to be able to fit with the Everton ethos and make the most of the existing players at the club whilst also working with the DoF to come up with suitable transfer targets.

I'm not sure the board have this DoF structure fully sussed out as it seems that Walsh is focused mostly on the scouting side and I don't know what other responsibilities he's supposed to have especially regarding the actual footballing side of things. I think Kenwright said something along the lines that he still thought the manager was the most important individual on the footballing side although I don't know if Koeman is directly answerable to the DoF.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 02, 2017, 04:16:16 AM
I'm glad we went for the Director of Football approach especially as in the past we've had managers with a very large remit, the problem with the old 'manager does everything' system is you are assuming that the manager will be there for the long term and with the example of Martinez, he seemed to have quite a large say in how Finch Farm was upgraded with extra bedrooms or whatever it was he felt suited his philosophy.

I read the bedroom idea was fucked off as soon as the pillock left
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluedylan on October 02, 2017, 04:19:12 AM
You don't know who he's bought

If you think Koeman knew who Onyekuru, Sandro, Vlasic and Gana were I think you'd be mistaken. It's obvious that Martina, Stek and Schneiderlin were Koeman signings. It's likely that Klaassen was also. Koeman also seemed to have a massive hard-on for Rooney and Sigurdsson. Who knows with the others? Yes, it's guesswork but educated guesswork.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on October 02, 2017, 04:26:40 AM
the rumours of him having "baggage" are disturbing.

What are these rumours?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on October 02, 2017, 04:33:14 AM
What are these rumours?

It comes from here, I think:

http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4 (http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4)

Quote
I said to snoop when he got the job I don't think he was all he's built up to be and I don't think anyone who was involved in football would have given him the job. Moshiri saw Arsenal struggle with Wenger once they lost David Dein and they'd flirted with Walsh but I don't think anyone with a knowledge of transfers and the ins and outs of footy would have appointed steve Walsh .

I'm not saying he hasn't spotted and can't spot a player but he brings baggage , I think Everton ended up because of the baggage second guessing Walsh . We've got , as always really , too many people looking at too much in the way of transfers . i don't believe Koeman and I don't believe Kenwright trust Walsh and I'll be honest I don't blame them.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 05:14:43 AM
Sounds very sensible.

My first problem with the 'Should we sack Walsh?' thread is this:

Does anybody know exactly what his remit is, what his targets are and what he is measured against?

My second problem is this:

Does anyone actually know if he is achieving his targets, under-performing, over-achieving or failing?

Basically at this stage I have not heard anything to say if he is doing a good job or a bad job so what would calls to sack him even be based on?

Knee-jerks.
I think itís relatively certain that when a club creates a DoF role for a chief scout, heís going to be in charge of recruitment. Otherwise heíd just be hired as scout/chief scout.

And Iíd say not bringing in a Lukaku replacement over the course of 3 transfer windows and not signing a left back - is doing a bad job. Heís essentially hamstrung the manager - and any future manager.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 05:22:04 AM
It comes from here, I think:

http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4 (http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/forum/threads/steve-walsh.24838/page-4)
By Ďbaggageí was he one of those paedo young coaches?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: nwatson on October 02, 2017, 05:38:00 AM
Sack him for what? The poor guy is probable having to work with his hands tied behind his back while Koeman ruins the club.
There's 1 guy in charge of what's happening on the pitch and all hope of getting rid of him seems to have been removed tonight.
The board seem to be happy to kiss goodbye to our season hoping he can turn this shit around.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 05:38:56 AM
By Ďbaggageí was he one of those paedo young coaches?

Eh?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 05:39:06 AM
Sack him for what? The poor guy is probable having to work with his hands tied behind his back while Koeman ruins the club.
There's 1 guy in charge of what's happening on the pitch and all hope of getting rid of him seems to have been removed tonight.
The board seem to be happy to kiss goodbye to our season hoping he can turn this shit around.

What have I missed? What's happened tonight?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 05:40:20 AM
Sack him for what? The poor guy is probable having to work with his hands tied behind his back while Koeman ruins the club.
There's 1 guy in charge of what's happening on the pitch and all hope of getting rid of him seems to have been removed tonight.
The board seem to be happy to kiss goodbye to our season hoping he can turn this shit around.

The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's responsible as is Koeman
They're also both responsible for not replacing Lukaku & not signing a back up / replacement for Baines
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 05:43:31 AM
The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's as responsible as Koeman is

They are not 'shit' players. They are underperforming players. There is a big difference
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on October 02, 2017, 05:44:52 AM
Lack of accountability in regards to the window I have to say.

The failure to 'replace' Lukaku is borderline insane.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blueToffee on October 02, 2017, 05:49:56 AM
Lack of accountability in regards to the window I have to say.

The failure to 'replace' Lukaku is borderline insane.

That has to go down as a failure for everyone concerned.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: D_murph0278 on October 02, 2017, 05:50:22 AM
The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's as responsible as Koeman is

Hardly anyone he's bought is shit. We've just got no thought out system for any of them to perform in. That's the managers fault.
We were all fucking made up when we signed Pickford, Keane, Klassen, Sandro, and Rooney and with good reason. All the right age (bar rooney) and all had great seasons last season (bar rooney). Rooney made sense for experience in Europe and for the younger players.
Signing Sigurdsson created more problems for the team than we could ever have known, and we doubled that up by not replacing Lukaku. Add the lack of a system to no pace or width and Ashley Williams being picked every fucking week and there you have it. A big fat list of fuck ups, that Koeman is totally to blame for.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 05:51:11 AM
They are not 'shit' players. They are underperforming players. There is a big difference

That's your opinion
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: nwatson on October 02, 2017, 05:52:47 AM
Moshiri given his full support
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:02:40 AM

Hardly anyone he's bought is shit. We've just got no thought out system for any of them to perform in. That's the managers fault.
We were all fucking made up when we signed Pickford, Keane, Klassen, Sandro, and Rooney and with good reason. All the right age (bar rooney) and all had great seasons last season (bar rooney). Rooney made sense for experience in Europe and for the younger players.
Signing Sigurdsson created more problems for the team than we could ever have known, and we doubled that up by not replacing Lukaku. Add the lack of a system to no pace or width and Ashley Williams being picked every fucking week and there you have it. A big fat list of fuck ups, that Koeman is totally to blame for.

Hardly anyone he's signed is shit is debatable. Schneiderlin, Keane, Bolasie & Klaassen have a really long way to go to justify their hefty price tags (£110 ish million!), Walsh was here when all those players arrived so he was involved in those deals

We were all made up because Everton have never made an early splash in the market like we did this time. That's the reason everyone was made up not because of who we signed like you've made out

How did signing Sigurdsson "create more problems than we could've known"?

You're clearly blaming Koeman over Lukaku, they knew months before that he was leaving so between them that was a colossal fuck up

I don't rate Walsh (or Koeman)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 06:07:48 AM
That's your opinion

Yes it is, but deep down you know they are not 'shit' players. You just like to be dramatic and deal in hyperbole quite a bit. If you genuinely think they are 'shit' then I can't wait to see the names you are going to buy for us when you get your new job. I hope you're thick skinned though
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:20:01 AM
Yes it is, but deep down you know they are not 'shit' players. You just like to be dramatic and deal in hyperbole quite a bit. If you genuinely think they are 'shit' then I can't wait to see the names you are going to buy for us when you get your new job. I hope you're thick skinned though

Those are also just your opinions. We've established you like expressing your opinions
I'm expressing mine, sorry you don't like them 🤷🏻‍♂️
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: D_murph0278 on October 02, 2017, 06:20:16 AM
Hardly anyone he's signed is shit is debatable. Schneiderlin, Keane, Bolasie & Klaassen have a really long way to go to justify their hefty price tags (£110 ish million!), Walsh was here when all those players arrived so he was involved in those deals

We were all made up because Everton have never made an early splash in the market like we did this time. That's the reason everyone was made up not because of who we signed like you've made out

How did signing Sigurdsson "create more problems than we could've known"?

You're clearly blaming Koeman over Lukaku, they knew months before that he was leaving so between them that was a colossal fuck up

I don't rate Walsh (or Koeman)

Keane and Klassen have been here 5 minutes. Bolasie has had a major injury which might take another 6 months to get over and Scheiderlin does need to improve I agree, but we've certainly seen glimpses of his class especially at the tail end of last season. The fact that we've had inconsistent performances from him is because the manager is getting next to nothing out of him, like the majority of the team.
 
There's no way we were all made up just because we signed a lot of players early either. A fair few bigger clubs than everton were after the likes of Keane, Pickford and Sandro, so we knew were going for quality players with potential for plenty more years. Remember the agonising wait for us to sign Sandro on here? Over 100 + pages.... and all because he looked absolute class in Spain.
 
Chasing Sigurdsson for the best part of 2 months was ridiculous because after signing Klassen and Rooney, Koemans priority shouldve been making sure we had a presence up top to help the team and more notably Sandro and DCL through the season. Sigurdsson has now become a bit of a target due to his value and average performances. Koeman should've pulled the plug on the deal and realised we weren't desperate for another no.10. He doesn't answer to Walsh.... it's the other way around. Which is why the buck stops with him for no Lukaku replacement too and the general lack of quality performances, results and team spirit throughout this team.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 02, 2017, 06:21:03 AM
The "poor guy" has blew a fortune on shit players, he's responsible as is Koeman
They're also both responsible for not replacing Lukaku & not signing a back up / replacement for Baines
Do you think Chizzy got a fair chance on 'Strictly'  tonight? Only two appearances and then dropped and probably hasn't got a locker either. We've never replaced Rachel Riley up front and two windows have passed since then. That's where the fault lies.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:32:01 AM

Keane and Klassen have been here 5 minutes. Bolasie has had a major injury which might take another 6 months to get over and Scheiderlin does need to improve I agree, but we've certainly seen glimpses of his class especially at the tail end of last season. The fact that we've had inconsistent performances from him is because the manager is getting next to nothing out of him, like the majority of the team.
 
There's no way we were all made up just because we signed a lot of players early either. A fair few bigger clubs than everton were after the likes of Keane, Pickford and Sandro, so we knew were going for quality players with potential for plenty more years. Remember the agonising wait for us to sign Sandro on here? Over 100 + pages.... and all because he looked absolute class in Spain.
 
Chasing Sigurdsson for the best part of 2 months was ridiculous because after signing Klassen and Rooney, Koemans priority shouldve been making sure we had a presence up top to help the team and more notably Sandro and DCL through the season. Sigurdsson has now become a bit of a target due to his value and average performances. Koeman should've pulled the plug on the deal and realised we weren't desperate for another no.10. He doesn't answer to Walsh.... it's the other way around. Which is why the buck stops with him for no Lukaku replacement too and the general lack of quality performances, results and team spirit throughout this team.

That was the sole reason people were excited because we looked like we meant business not because of who we were signing

Did Bolasie look like a £30m player before he got injured?

Schneiderlin is playing in his preferred position, your argument would work if we were talking about say Sigurdsson who is a CAM and is being shunted out to left mid, Schneiderlin is useless

Keane & Klaassen are not worth what we've bought them for, it's obvious, infact bookmark this thread and I guarantee I'll be proven right at the end of the season

Sandro is garbage don't get me started on him

You don't know who answers to who out of Koeman & Walsh - you're just assuming so the buck resting with him comment is based off an assumption

The Sigurdsson deal - I agree we maybe didn't need him or if we did then we shouldn't have bought Klassen, the need for a striker was greater than the need for Sigurdsson but did Koeman know that we still wouldn't buy a striker even after we signed Sigurdsson?

I also agree that the performances & spirit are Koemans issues but to say Walsh is the poor blameless guy in this mess is ludicrous

They're equally to blame for the state of the squad

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: gizzblue on October 02, 2017, 06:46:29 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171001/838730e65f3d3b47da5bfffac331d51e.jpg)

Nuff said 😅
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 06:47:48 AM
Those are also just your opinions. We've established you like expressing your opinions
I'm expressing mine, sorry you don't like them 🤷🏻‍♂️


The difference being, when I express an opinion I usually do based on logic, reason and experience, and if I'm wrong I usually admit it - whereas you just like to make nouse and then hide behind the old 'it's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.' Which is fine, but as I tell the kids an opinion is only valid with good and reasoned explanation, which I don't often see from you. Next time I'm up I'm going to make sure that I get to meet you. It would be fascinating to see the man behind the misery
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 02, 2017, 06:53:04 AM
Wether players are good enough or not they didn't ask to be targeted by Everton, lack of shape,or not looking like there is a plan, the look of confusion generally as to what individual players are supposed to be doing within the team is all down to the manager,when it looks so easy for teams to move right through us with such ease is down to him there is just no redeeming features to this team, and there are some good players in there but they have a manager who dosen't know how to fix what he has caused.
     
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on October 02, 2017, 06:55:55 AM
I don't think there is much wrong with the purchases individually or collectively from his position. Last season I'd think it's be likely Walsh was responsible for signing Lookman, DCL, Gueye, this season I'd only say Onyekuru, but maybe Pickford or Keane, maybe identified Sandro, but Koeman certainly did the romancing if memory serves me correct. I think Rooney would have been unanimous, I look at Sigurdsson as more of a manager buy, given the eventual outlay, but think both probably wanted him.

There has been oversight in terms of the requirements. Our 2 main objectives in summer surely must have been replacing the 2 players who got the most goals and assists for us, 2 most central players to how we attacked. I think on paper we signed players who got more goals and assists last season, there just doesn't seem any logic about who is supposed to be doing what or how they fit together. That's more to do with the coaches domain, in terms of requesting certain types of players. We got virtually all the players we wanted and could get. If the manager was that worried about where the goals will come from, he had opportunity to make that a priority.

From our summer midfield signings, it's only really Vlasic who looks capable of running at opponents with the ball, think he'll become more central to our play because of necessity. But I also like DCL and I think he's been unlucky to not score a few and the supply has been pretty poor, compared to the level of service we gave Lukaku last year. I understand the logic in surrounding a striker with goal scoring midfielders, but we don't have the same presence up front, and I noticed increase in just aimless selfish hopeful shots from range. Whether it's desperation, lack of options or players competing against each other rather than working together, it's not a good habit.

In a world of Kevin Mirallas', Niasse is king.  :whistle:

But I think Walsh's remit is more about identifying players and making sure the business makes financial sense. It was Koeman's prerogative about what types of players he wanted, the priorities for the first team and how it fits together.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:58:57 AM
The difference being, when I express an opinion I usually do based on logic, reason and experience, and if I'm wrong I usually admit it - whereas you just like to make nouse and then hide behind the old 'it's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.' Which is fine, but as I tell the kids an opinion is only valid with good and reasoned explanation, which I don't often see from you. Next time I'm up I'm going to make sure that I get to meet you. It would be fascinating to see the man behind the misery

I think I've explained my opinions pretty thoroughly to be fair, not really sure what else you'd like?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 06:59:55 AM
I think I've explained my opinions pretty thoroughly to be fair, not really sure what else you'd like?


Well if the term 'shit' is now the benchmark for thoroughly then yes you have. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 07:04:01 AM
Well if the term 'shit' is now the benchmark for thoroughly then yes you have.

We're going around in circles here Mr. Brown - I'm off to bed, have a nice night 👍
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 07:04:46 AM
We're going around in circles here Mr. Brown - I'm off to bed, have a nice night 👍

Raising the white flag are we? 😉
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 07:11:10 AM
Raising the white flag are we? 😉

Not really mate you've offered nothing in the way of an argument against anything I've said, just "they're not shit they're just underperforming"

I'm just bored & tired so I'm off to bed. Night mate 🛏
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 07:17:28 AM
Not really mate you've offered nothing in the way of an argument against anything I've said, just "they're not shit they're just underperforming"

I'm just bored & tired so I'm off to bed. Night mate 🛏

It was just a joke
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 02, 2017, 07:29:12 AM
Thinking about all the players weve signed and vlasic seems to be one of the best of the bunch so far,,a player which came from a team

 we played twice in quick succession so absolutely fuck all to do with walsh or koeman....shame we never played atalanta first as their

 winger gomez looks really good with 16 goals and 91 chances created last year and 3 goals and 21 chances created so far this year

our ross last year scored 5 and created 82 chances
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Shropshire Blue on October 02, 2017, 07:46:30 AM
The difference being, when I express an opinion I usually do based on logic, reason and experience, and if I'm wrong I usually admit it - whereas you just like to make nouse and then hide behind the old 'it's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.' Which is fine, but as I tell the kids an opinion is only valid with good and reasoned explanation, which I don't often see from you. Next time I'm up I'm going to make sure that I get to meet you. It would be fascinating to see the man behind the misery

This might help - usually in Lower Gwladys but does tend to blend in with the croed
(http://churchofmabusradio.com/files/2012/07/538571_350060011718133_100001424113319_955773_1919666748_n.jpg)

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Brownie20 on October 02, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
This might help - usually in Lower Gwladys but does tend to blend in with the croed
(http://churchofmabusradio.com/files/2012/07/538571_350060011718133_100001424113319_955773_1919666748_n.jpg)

Looks like most of the women from the Rhondda valleys

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 02, 2017, 01:25:30 PM
Not blaming Walsh cos I think they might be koeman signings but Sigurdsson is a dreadful buy at the price and we overpaid on Pickford and Keane too. The market is inflated but we still paid too much
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 02:26:25 PM
Ok so we got rid of players like Cleverly, Barry, Kone, Deulofeo and McGeady and brought in Pickford, Keane, Rooney, Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Vlasic and Onyekuru for what is not a massive net spend.

I would say that the state of the team is massively improved and money well spent largely on youth with great potential futures and a couple of established star performers in the premier League. Massive improvement.

I do not include Lukaku in this and neither should you because Lukaku was not a 'decision' to get rid of - otherwise he would still be here - the fact of the matter was we simply could not hold on to Lukaku any longer and that was no-one's fault.

The 'state of the team' as you put it - is I think the responsibility of the manager - not Walsh.

So considering he has improved personnel (unless you want to swap and get Cleverly and the others back instead?) and have not spent loads (according to some posters on here - me I don't give a shit it's all Monopoly money at this stage) - tell me how you think he's done?

Good points apart from the obvious...we knew Lukaku was going, so why was that position not the highest priority? Why spend so much time and effort on siggurdson?

This is a major failing. Whoever made that decision should take the responsibility for it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 02, 2017, 02:56:18 PM

Hardly anyone he's bought is shit. We've just got no thought out system for any of them to perform in. That's the managers fault.
We were all fucking made up when we signed Pickford, Keane, Klassen, Sandro, and Rooney and with good reason. All the right age (bar rooney) and all had great seasons last season (bar rooney). Rooney made sense for experience in Europe and for the younger players.
Signing Sigurdsson created more problems for the team than we could ever have known, and we doubled that up by not replacing Lukaku. Add the lack of a system to no pace or width and Ashley Williams being picked every fucking week and there you have it. A big fat list of fuck ups, that Koeman is totally to blame for.
...or the manager had a system planned but the head of recruitment didnít buy him the players he needed to implement it
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 02, 2017, 02:58:38 PM
...or the manager had a system planned but the head of recruitment didnít buy him the players he needed to implement it

Can you see ANY evidence of a system?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 04:53:50 PM
Don't think there was much wrong with a lot of the signings, you could certainly make a sensible case for most of them really. The only one I'm unsure of is Klaassan, not because there might not be a decent payer in there somewhere, eventually, but because we just didn't need him. You could maybe argue that we didn't really need Sig either and certainly not at that price but he came with a decent pedigree so you'd have expected him to have shown more so far.

I just don't think we have a manager with either the man management skills or the tactical knowhow to manage a team at this level. His ego and personality might get in the way too. Maybe Walsh fucked up with the striker situation and another centre half but we signed about a dozen players this summer across both age groups, to expect him to find us basically a whole new first team in one summer was a big ask of anyone.

There is enough talent there to be playing at a higher level than we are at present, that's down to one man.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 02, 2017, 05:25:50 PM
If you think Koeman knew who Onyekuru, Sandro, Vlasic and Gana were I think you'd be mistaken. It's obvious that Martina, Stek and Schneiderlin were Koeman signings. It's likely that Klaassen was also. Koeman also seemed to have a massive hard-on for Rooney and Sigurdsson. Who knows with the others? Yes, it's guesswork but educated guesswork.

You can go back all last Spring and see evidence of the Rooney hard-on.  Perhaps he's the classic "starfucker" type manager (after all, he was a legend, and no doubt remembers what it was like when he was on the decline, likely thought he was owed deference then too) and has lost the dressing room.

Just a working theory.

I would personally give Walsh some time before I blew his reign up, he obviously had no hand in picking Koeman.  Then again, no idea what @kramer0 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) is referring to re these rumours, so not dismissing the "clean slate" option, either.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 02, 2017, 05:33:19 PM
By Ďbaggageí was he one of those paedo young coaches?

Christ, as I was on page 2 I was thinking "please, God, please don't let it be diddling 12 year olds"
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Realist on October 02, 2017, 06:06:50 PM
Thinking about all the players weve signed and vlasic seems to be one of the best of the bunch so far,,a player which came from a team

 we played twice in quick succession so absolutely fuck all to do with walsh or koeman....shame we never played atalanta first as their

 winger gomez looks really good with 16 goals and 91 chances created last year and 3 goals and 21 chances created so far this year

our ross last year scored 5 and created 82 chances

Yeah I agree he's class
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on October 02, 2017, 06:52:13 PM
The signings wouldn't have looked so bad if we had managed to sign a striker, a LB, a LCB and another winger.

As it is, they look bad as they don't fit into the formation our manager is trying to play.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on October 02, 2017, 07:29:07 PM
How the fuck anyone on here can answer this I don't know.

Walsh didn't make the decisions at Chelsea. Allardyce made them at Newcastle. At Hull, Pearson was the one deciding. At Leicester it was Pearson and then Ranieri.

Our recruitment structure is so opaque that assessing anything like that is difficult. He's getting a lot of stick for not bringing in a target man to replace Lukaku, but he tried to bring in one in January and one of the reasons Belfodil didn't come through was because Koeman wouldn't sign off on it without meeting the player.

Honestly, who is in a position to know?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: JordanianEmbassy on October 02, 2017, 08:31:19 PM
I've got no idea what he or Koeman do with regards to transfers, so no idea who to blame for anything.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 02, 2017, 08:37:12 PM
I've no idea, either!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hesmenos on October 02, 2017, 10:22:09 PM
Not really about sacking Walsh.

But would Steve Walsh have any say in whether we would sack Koeman? I know that normally DOFs are involved in hiring managers.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 02, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
Not really about sacking Walsh.

But would Steve Walsh have any say in whether we would sack Koeman? I know that normally DOFs are involved in hiring managers.

He isn't really a Director of Football in the sense that one would normally associate one to be is he? He's head of scouting and recruitment really isn't he. Although the fact no-one knows what his remit is leads us to the situation.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 03, 2017, 01:40:21 AM
How the fuck anyone on here can answer this I don't know.

Walsh didn't make the decisions at Chelsea. Allardyce made them at Newcastle. At Hull, Pearson was the one deciding. At Leicester it was Pearson and then Ranieri.

Our recruitment structure is so opaque that assessing anything like that is difficult. He's getting a lot of stick for not bringing in a target man to replace Lukaku, but he tried to bring in one in January and one of the reasons Belfodil didn't come through was because Koeman wouldn't sign off on it without meeting the player.

Honestly, who is in a position to know?
This is my point too.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on October 03, 2017, 04:12:01 AM
This is my point too.
Not getting a centre forward is obviously a major failing, but there are just too many plausible explanations.

Why didn't we bring one in?

Could we not convince players to join? Did our valuation not meet the selling club/player's wage demands? Our search seemed to focus on target men, was Koeman unwilling to compromise on that? Did Walsh suggest a number of players but couldn't convince Koeman of their worth? Did we ultimately decide that a strike force of Rooney, Sandro, Calvert-Lewin (and Niasse?) was enough to see us okay? Did we decide that developing Calvert-Lewin was a better option than signing the target man 8th down our list? Could we not afford one? Did we dwell too long on our number one choice when it might have been more prudent to wrap up a young potential target man early on as a back up just in case?

We can probably answer a couple of those from interviews and journalist mutterings, but most of them haven't been addressed at all.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 27, 2017, 03:29:37 PM
More and more articles flying around pointing the finger at Walsh and his accountability in Koemanís sacking. I think anything less than a great January transfer window will see him sacked, too. He should be getting players lined-up now but not sure how he can when we donít have a manager to consult.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 03:34:03 PM
My thoughts, too
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 03:36:41 PM
More and more articles flying around pointing the finger at Walsh and his accountability in Koeman’s sacking. I think anything less than a great January transfer window will see him sacked, too. He should be getting players lined-up now but not sure how he can when we don’t have a manager to consult.

Articles are there to sell papers and create discussion. It may even be a bit of subtle game play on Koeman's part to leak details to try and salvage his reputation for his next position.

Of course we didn't have a great window but over 50% of the signings I would imagine were Koeman's and how he utilised them was poor in the extreme. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 27, 2017, 03:46:48 PM
Articles are there to sell papers and create discussion. It may even be a bit of subtle game play on Koeman's part to leak details to try and salvage his reputation for his next position.

Of course we didn't have a great window but over 50% of the signings I would imagine were Koeman's and how he utilised them was poor in the extreme.
Be interesting if we scrap his role if we do let him go or persist with a DoF.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: sirblue57 on October 27, 2017, 03:51:26 PM
Said it before. Moyes or whoever he had in his tenure deserves a look for the DoF role. Unearthed some gems in his time here.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 27, 2017, 04:03:06 PM
Having a high-profile manager and a lesser know, sycophantic DoF whoís just grateful to be there, wasnít the best pairing. The manager should be accountable to the DoF and the DoF should be a big enough personality to tell the manager where to go if he suggests signing of the Martina standard.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: bigmanbob on October 27, 2017, 04:13:19 PM
Someone provide me with a good example where a DOF has worked in the Prem
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on October 27, 2017, 04:18:28 PM
Someone provide me with a good example where a DOF has worked in the Prem

Southampton, amazingly well.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 04:21:49 PM
The DoF has to have the unequivocal backing of the board for it to work. I don't think there is an issue with one in the English game as such, it's just a cultural legacy that the old school manager's don't like to relinquish responsibility. A lot of the younger manager's probably wouldn't have an issue with it at all, in fact they would probably welcome someone else dealing with a lot of the administration side of things.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Major Clanger on October 27, 2017, 04:28:09 PM
The DoF has to have the unequivocal backing of the board for it to work. I don't think there is an issue with one in the English game as such, it's just a cultural legacy that the old school manager's don't like to relinquish responsibility. A lot of the younger manager's probably wouldn't have an issue with it at all, in fact they would probably welcome someone else dealing with a lot of the administration side of things.

Also if you look at the boards, they're mostly amateurs who may be ruthless businessmen in their original area, but turn into starstruck schoolboys when it comes to football.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on October 27, 2017, 04:28:23 PM
The DoF has to have the unequivocal backing of the board for it to work. I don't think there is an issue with one in the English game as such, it's just a cultural legacy that the old school manager's don't like to relinquish responsibility. A lot of the younger manager's probably wouldn't have an issue with it at all, in fact they would probably welcome someone else dealing with a lot of the administration side of things.

I agree and I dont think Koeman particularly had an issue with it, I just dont think Walsh was strong enough to deal with him
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 04:45:33 PM
I agree and I dont think Koeman particularly had an issue with it, I just dont think Walsh was strong enough to deal with him

The fact they both joined the club at the same time led to the strange dynamic. Walsh was learning about the club, his new role and what was expected of him and Koeman's strength of personality and obvious backing from Moshiri wouldn't have led to a straightforward relationship. I can well see him acquiescing to Koeman during this period.

In my opinion Walsh will probably be wiser in the role now, will have had his authority respected with this managerial change and we should now see more of a better balance with the new manager. I think his role is vital really and it'd be silly to even think of changing him in the near future.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 27, 2017, 04:55:26 PM
The fact they both joined the club at the same time led to the strange dynamic. Walsh was learning about the club, his new role and what was expected of him and Koeman's strength of personality and obvious backing from Moshiri wouldn't have led to a straightforward relationship. I can well see him acquiescing to Koeman during this period.

In my opinion Walsh will probably be wiser in the role now, will have had his authority respected with this managerial change and we should now see more of a better balance with the new manager. I think his role is vital really and it'd be silly to even think of changing him in the near future.

Agree with this. I don't understand a lot about how these relationships work, but the DoF has got to be the big kahuna and take responsibility on behalf of the club if the manager is straying form the board's vision of where the club needs to be headed.

Walsh being established now, any new managers should be easier to keep in line.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Makis on October 27, 2017, 05:33:33 PM
Someone provide me with a good example where a DOF has worked in the Prem
Premier League isn't exactly a good example of forward thinking. Took foreign coaches to even get the players into the same shape as their colleagues in the mainland.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Rodenplav64 on October 27, 2017, 05:42:31 PM
I just can't believe Koeman had fuck all to do with signings . Given that they look good ( if a little overpriced in some cases ) on paper then maybe we should wait and see what tune a new Manager gets out of them before sacking Walsh . Martina and Williams are the exceptions and they were both firmly on Koeman I think .
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: van der Meyde on October 27, 2017, 05:55:19 PM
The fact they both joined the club at the same time led to the strange dynamic.
I think there are probably parallels to when Ferguson and Gill both left Man Utd at the same time too.

In hindsight, having both a new manager and a Director of Football, both with little experience of conducting transfers, was a disaster waiting to happen. As @Rhys (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=366) suggested the other day, with a more experienced DoF the dynamic might have been a lot more successful.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 06:06:20 PM
I think there are probably parallels to when Ferguson and Gill both left Man Utd at the same time too.

In hindsight, having both a new manager and a Director of Football, both with little experience of conducting transfers, was a disaster waiting to happen. As @Rhys (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=366) suggested the other day, with a more experienced DoF the dynamic might have been a lot more successful.

Even a vastly experienced DoF starting a new job at the same time as a new manager with Koeman's strong personality would have caused issues. It was just unfortunate timing as they both will have wanted to establish their own power base at the same time. Should have been half-expected really, especially with Moshiri's comment of 'Koeman is Koeman, he does what he wants and I support him.' Starstruck much!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 06:41:39 PM
I have only just realised that this Steve Walsh is not the Steve Walsh(hard bastard!) that played for Leicester!

Our Steve Walsh is very close to and by all accounts has a good understanding with Nigel Pearson(another tough bastard!), whom he had worked with for many years

Pearson? Now there's a thought...................... .....!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: everton1952 on October 27, 2017, 06:46:41 PM
Didn't Pearson recently start a new job somewhere abroad?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: boothill on October 27, 2017, 06:48:20 PM
I have only just realised that this Steve Walsh is not the Steve Walsh(hard bastard!) that played for Leicester!

Our Steve Walsh is very close to and by all accounts has a good understanding with Nigel Pearson(another tough bastard!), whom he had worked with for many years

Pearson? Now there's a thought...................... .....!
The 1 that was attempting to disembowl wise and his rent boys ? No shit, is it that 1 ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 06:48:58 PM
Don't know!

Thought he lived in Sheffield!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: boothill on October 27, 2017, 06:55:02 PM
Don't know!

Thought he lived in Sheffield!
Its him, just looked back over his career, didnt take many prisoners. him ,pearson,taggart, the 1 out of right said fred, bloody big hard team that o'niell put together there
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 07:14:07 PM
A right bunch of hard nuts!

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 07:33:22 PM
Its him, just looked back over his career, didnt take many prisoners. him ,pearson,taggart, the 1 out of right said fred, bloody big hard team that o'niell put together there

And Emile Heskey.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on October 27, 2017, 07:35:53 PM
Not seen any articles about Walsh @GrantyBoy78 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=332) can you put the links up?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 07:49:48 PM
The Ranieri/Shakespeare/Walsh success is quite interesting because it was originally Pearson/Shakespeare/Walsh; maybe Ranieri just rode that wave?

Not unlike our first season under Martinez, riding the Moyes wave
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on October 27, 2017, 07:54:16 PM
Pearson currently manages OH Leuven in the Belgian First Division B; a club also owned by King Power.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 08:02:03 PM
Interesting - as King Power must have sacked him from the Leicester job
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: formerKHL on October 27, 2017, 08:23:07 PM
I think Walsh has got a major problem on his hands with Koeman going...
He's obviously been tasked with finding a striker....problem is not who he buys so much as will the new manager like/want whomsoever he ends up buying...

could end up with egg on his chin big time here......spends £40/50 million on X and the new guy wants Y......

on the flip side signing a striker in January could indicate that a new manager is imminent...
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 27, 2017, 08:25:44 PM
I think Walsh has got a major problem on his hands with Koeman going...
He's obviously been tasked with finding a striker....problem is not who he buys so much as will the new manager like/want whomsoever he ends up buying...

could end up with egg on his chin big time here......spends £40/50 million on X and the new guy wants Y......

on the flip side signing a striker in January could indicate that a new manager is imminent...

Egg on his chin??

(https://media.giphy.com/media/SDxzM5LAVq5Tq/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: formerKHL on October 27, 2017, 09:02:00 PM
haven't you ever heard that before ?

over here in Yorkshire they say..."end up wi'egg under t'hat..."
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2017, 09:07:17 PM
Chin up, don't want egg on our faces or our jaws will hit the floor

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on October 27, 2017, 10:36:13 PM
Honestly don't even know what's going on in here.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue slug on October 27, 2017, 10:49:40 PM
its fast becoming an eggscruciating eggsperience

Sorry I'll get my coat
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: di_guyo on October 27, 2017, 10:51:16 PM
I remember being ridiculed for suggesting in the summer that Walsh hadn't done anything...lolz.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on October 27, 2017, 10:59:50 PM
The biggest problem I see with Steve Walsh is that nobody seems to know what he really does.

And "nobody" may very well include Moshiri and Kenwright.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 27, 2017, 11:02:02 PM
I remember being ridiculed for suggesting in the summer that Walsh hadn't done anything...lolz.

what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on October 27, 2017, 11:04:31 PM
I am unsure to what it is he actually does, but to me it SEEMS like he is getting a DOF wage for basically being a glorified scout.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue1948 on October 27, 2017, 11:26:37 PM
Even a vastly experienced DoF starting a new job at the same time as a new manager with Koeman's strong personality would have caused issues. It was just unfortunate timing as they both will have wanted to establish their own power base at the same time. Should have been half-expected really, especially with Moshiri's comment of 'Koeman is Koeman, he does what he wants and I support him.' Starstruck much!
Good except he said he was happy with the transfers being someone else's jurisdiction
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue1948 on October 27, 2017, 11:29:59 PM
The biggest problem I see with Steve Walsh is that nobody seems to know what he really does.

And "nobody" may very well include Moshiri and Kenwright.
Being a nobody would give an insight then!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue1948 on October 27, 2017, 11:30:52 PM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.
That is sexist Liz and I demand a retraction .
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 27, 2017, 11:31:41 PM
That is sexist Liz and I demand a retraction .

denied.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: blue1948 on October 27, 2017, 11:42:41 PM
denied.
Well I fully understand ,the way I portrayed it must have been sexist
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 27, 2017, 11:51:29 PM
I am unsure to what it is he actually does, but to me it SEEMS like he is getting a DOF wage for basically being a glorified scout.

Contradiction much.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 28, 2017, 12:02:35 AM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.

OMG
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 28, 2017, 12:14:42 AM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.
Makes me vom
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: di_guyo on October 28, 2017, 12:47:50 AM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.

I sincerely apologise for offending you with my language.

*bore off
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on October 28, 2017, 01:03:08 AM
The biggest problem I see with Steve Walsh is that nobody seems to know what he really does.

And "nobody" may very well include Moshiri and Kenwright.

Thought it's fairly obvious what he does and what his remit is.

He's responsible for recruitment, scouting and long term value of the squad. Basically authority on player trading, with a view to increasing the value of the squad through transfers.

From there each DoF and manager has a different relationship, with some DoF more willing to bend or accomodate.

But Giroud is a fairly obvious bone of contention for a DoF. He's going to cost a fair amount of money and he's going to take time away from young players who could be developing. At the end he will have minimal resale value.

I think the best way to judge Walsh is on the transfers. All of them, because ultimately he is not just individually responsible in most cases, but holistically responsible.

I think we are in a similar period to other teams before who have done wholesale changes to first team squad. There is little identity or cohesion and it falls apart every way you cut it.

But I think in terms of Walsh remit, I think he's identified a lot of young talented players.

Last summer we signed established players, Williams, Gana, Bolasie. But in Jan we added Lookman and DCL. This summer we've added Pickford, Keane, Klaassen, Vlasic, Sandro, Onyekuru. All players intended to go into first team, but their first major move.

I don't see Cuco, Rooney or Sigurdsson as our problems. Rooney has chipped in with goals, and we shouldn't have been expecting him to carry the team and I'd rather he stopped trying to same extent. Sigurdsson looks a turd in the punch bowl because of the fee, but actually he's a very useful player if used to his strengths. Cuco has got a fair amount of stick, because Koeman liked him, but he cost next to sod all and he's got an engine that allows us to link play, I've seen worse defenders.

I think time will prove that Walsh acquired good players, I think for Koeman, there just wasn't enough off the shelf options immediately. Part of Walsh's remit is to look at development and longer term to avoid too many Rooney's, Giroud's coming in. We've got a lot of more experienced players since Walsh's arrival, so it's not like he's averse to experience. About half the players we've bought have been 26 or over.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Running Blue on October 28, 2017, 07:18:14 AM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.

Is it only women who are supposed to laugh these days?  In all fairness, you're only doing what women do best.  Complaining.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jamokachi on October 28, 2017, 07:36:34 AM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.

It's fucking infuriating.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 28, 2017, 01:24:03 PM
Thought it's fairly obvious what he does and what his remit is.

He's responsible for recruitment, scouting and long term value of the squad. Basically authority on player trading, with a view to increasing the value of the squad through transfers.

From there each DoF and manager has a different relationship, with some DoF more willing to bend or accomodate.

But Giroud is a fairly obvious bone of contention for a DoF. He's going to cost a fair amount of money and he's going to take time away from young players who could be developing. At the end he will have minimal resale value.

I think the best way to judge Walsh is on the transfers. All of them, because ultimately he is not just individually responsible in most cases, but holistically responsible.

I think we are in a similar period to other teams before who have done wholesale changes to first team squad. There is little identity or cohesion and it falls apart every way you cut it.

But I think in terms of Walsh remit, I think he's identified a lot of young talented players.

Last summer we signed established players, Williams, Gana, Bolasie. But in Jan we added Lookman and DCL. This summer we've added Pickford, Keane, Klaassen, Vlasic, Sandro, Onyekuru. All players intended to go into first team, but their first major move.

I don't see Cuco, Rooney or Sigurdsson as our problems. Rooney has chipped in with goals, and we shouldn't have been expecting him to carry the team and I'd rather he stopped trying to same extent. Sigurdsson looks a turd in the punch bowl because of the fee, but actually he's a very useful player if used to his strengths. Cuco has got a fair amount of stick, because Koeman liked him, but he cost next to sod all and he's got an engine that allows us to link play, I've seen worse defenders.

I think time will prove that Walsh acquired good players, I think for Koeman, there just wasn't enough off the shelf options immediately. Part of Walsh's remit is to look at development and longer term to avoid too many Rooney's, Giroud's coming in. We've got a lot of more experienced players since Walsh's arrival, so it's not like he's averse to experience. About half the players we've bought have been 26 or over.
Walsh has bought some very good players and we certainly have some youngsters who can go all the way. My issues with him are:

1. Allowed too much turnover of playing staff
2. Hasnít addressed glaring issues such as striker and LB
3. Hasnít signed a low profile Ďwho the fuck is he? Oh, heís really fucking good!í player from abroad - whereís the scouting genius?

As much as not getting a striker grabs the headlines, itís only having one LB at the club which really pisses me off. Itís bordering on gross negligence. And itís not like weíre short of money? If Walsh canít find a young LB that can share Bainesí workload with a view to establishing himself as a starter, then whyís he here?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 28, 2017, 02:06:22 PM
Walsh has bought some very good players and we certainly have some youngsters who can go all the way. My issues with him are:

1. Allowed too much turnover of playing staff
2. Hasnít addressed glaring issues such as striker and LB
3. Hasnít signed a low profile Ďwho the fuck is he? Oh, heís really fucking good!í player from abroad - whereís the scouting genius?

As much as not getting a striker grabs the headlines, itís only having one LB at the club which really pisses me off. Itís bordering on gross negligence. And itís not like weíre short of money? If Walsh canít find a young LB that can share Bainesí workload with a view to establishing himself as a starter, then whyís he here?

Think someone deserves a lot of credit for gueye sandro (who I still think will come good) and the lad we've got on loan in Belgium. Think the days of completely unheard of players is over. I can watch football from probably 15 different countries this weekend. There's no completely unknowns now
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 28, 2017, 03:06:22 PM
what is it with grown men typing 'lol, lolz, trololol' all the time?? madness.

This.

Freedom of speech, express yourself etc but 'USE YOUR WORDS FFS'!

If you want to be milleninnial - use a funny gif - but not too many in one post because those who use mobile phones will lose their shit. Take it from me.

P.S.   - FFS is allowed. So is P.S. because it's proper.

 :snigger:



Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 28, 2017, 03:24:22 PM
Thought it's fairly obvious what he does and what his remit is.

He's responsible for recruitment, scouting and long term value of the squad. Basically authority on player trading, with a view to increasing the value of the squad through transfers.

From there each DoF and manager has a different relationship, with some DoF more willing to bend or accomodate.

But Giroud is a fairly obvious bone of contention for a DoF. He's going to cost a fair amount of money and he's going to take time away from young players who could be developing. At the end he will have minimal resale value.

I think the best way to judge Walsh is on the transfers. All of them, because ultimately he is not just individually responsible in most cases, but holistically responsible.

I think we are in a similar period to other teams before who have done wholesale changes to first team squad. There is little identity or cohesion and it falls apart every way you cut it.

But I think in terms of Walsh remit, I think he's identified a lot of young talented players.

Last summer we signed established players, Williams, Gana, Bolasie. But in Jan we added Lookman and DCL. This summer we've added Pickford, Keane, Klaassen, Vlasic, Sandro, Onyekuru. All players intended to go into first team, but their first major move.

I don't see Cuco, Rooney or Sigurdsson as our problems. Rooney has chipped in with goals, and we shouldn't have been expecting him to carry the team and I'd rather he stopped trying to same extent. Sigurdsson looks a turd in the punch bowl because of the fee, but actually he's a very useful player if used to his strengths. Cuco has got a fair amount of stick, because Koeman liked him, but he cost next to sod all and he's got an engine that allows us to link play, I've seen worse defenders.

I think time will prove that Walsh acquired good players, I think for Koeman, there just wasn't enough off the shelf options immediately. Part of Walsh's remit is to look at development and longer term to avoid too many Rooney's, Giroud's coming in. We've got a lot of more experienced players since Walsh's arrival, so it's not like he's averse to experience. About half the players we've bought have been 26 or over.

Fucking excellent post sir! I feel compelled to thank you for it. This has laid out to me in a well thought out and structured way what Walsh is probably tasked with. Makes sense.

I still wonder though how he is measured. What are the indicators of how good a job he is doing? I think there are probably quite a few areas he will be judged against, not all of them complimentary so I think it may be quite difficult to measure exactly how successful he's being:

Value of squad against money spent
Age of squad
Success of individuals brought in
Success of first team as a whole
Position of team in table against last year
Depth of squad per position
Successful aquisitions of Tier 1 targets against 2nd, 3rd, 4th choices

It doesn't seem to be a straightforward role to measure. He may have brought in a player who has been great individually but use of that player by the manager could fuck up the shape and be a detriment overall to the team performance. We've seen it before where you have one really good player but the team play better without him.

It may be that he failed to get the first choice target for a position - bad mark for Steve - but the alternative he brought in could have been a real success - good work Steve!

The position of the squad could be improved by a couple of established players but then the value of the squad and the age of the squad have gone further away from where we want to be.

I think it's a real balancing act, even contradictory at times, so with respect to the thread title - I think something this complex needs a lot more time to get right and with the right person in the role (fingers crossed we have that) it should improve year on year - but if we sack too quickly, I think we take big steps backwards and the next person has to start almost from scratch.

It seems to me from Ridge's post that this is a role that should be judged over 5 years rather than 1. I know - that makes me nervous too - 5 years is a long time to be doing it wrong - but I don't think we can see too much wrong apart from 1 area - league position - and that is more directly affected by the manager.

Let's hope the good stuff we have seen from this year is improved on each window.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on October 28, 2017, 03:40:36 PM
It's hard to fully judge how well Walsh has done as we do not know how some of he younger players will do but I guess we 'll see over the next couple of seasons.

However I assume that he was primarily brought in to ensure debacles like last transfer window didn't happen.

I mean we have pretty much overpaid for everyone and the signings have been lazy to say the least...this laziness has cost us so much money. Were there no better value options than siggy at 45m ? Keane and Pickford for 60m ? Do me a favour.

There is a lot if talk of the young players brought in also but let's not forget we 've paid a lot if money for them also and they are hardly setting the world alight.

For me if he was in charge of recruitment then he has failed miserably....not bringing in players in key positions has cost us a whole season. Koeman was crap but i think they should have both gone as they were seemingly joint mistakes made by the Chuckle brothers.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Frevski on October 28, 2017, 04:50:35 PM
So the question to follow on would be, just how much of negotiating is Steve Walsh responsible for.

If he identifies the individual, conducts some due diligence on the quality of his data, who is responsible for getting the negotiations over the line.

Because if they are shit, and I am specifically looking at Kenwright and his team, Steve has no control over that.

We have no doubt all had incompetent bosses who no matter the quality of info you give them still fuck it up. And IF Steve is in the same position, then I feel for him.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: gizzblue on October 28, 2017, 05:18:51 PM
Is it only women who are supposed to laugh these days?  In all fairness, you're only doing what women do best.  Complaining.
Said whilst having a go at a woman ......😅😅😅irony impairment is a gift for some .
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 28, 2017, 05:55:43 PM
So the question to follow on would be, just how much of negotiating is Steve Walsh responsible for.

If he identifies the individual, conducts some due diligence on the quality of his data, who is responsible for getting the negotiations over the line.

Because if they are shit, and I am specifically looking at Kenwright and his team, Steve has no control over that.

We have no doubt all had incompetent bosses who no matter the quality of info you give them still fuck it up. And IF Steve is in the same position, then I feel for him.
Walsh was in Milan negotiating deals. Nothing transpired.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Frevski on October 28, 2017, 06:04:01 PM
Walsh was in Milan negotiating deals. Nothing transpired.
Like is said how much of that was initial negotiator/due diligence.  As hasn't Moshri brought in some of his own team since the summer to help drive us forward.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on October 28, 2017, 06:55:09 PM
So the question to follow on would be, just how much of negotiating is Steve Walsh responsible for.

If he identifies the individual, conducts some due diligence on the quality of his data, who is responsible for getting the negotiations over the line.

Because if they are shit, and I am specifically looking at Kenwright and his team, Steve has no control over that.

We have no doubt all had incompetent bosses who no matter the quality of info you give them still fuck it up. And IF Steve is in the same position, then I feel for him.
Agree this to a certain extent but you would have thought it would be walshs job to identify a player then place a a max  value on them. Ie x player would be a good addition up to 25m etc.

I don't think we can blame the top men for backing the manager and Walsh and getting their targets.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 28, 2017, 11:23:16 PM
Thought id take a look at that belfoldi dude from std liege we nearly signed,,he's now on loan to w bremen and outta 12 games for both he's scored once in a cup game...i think koeman got that one right
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 28, 2017, 11:26:24 PM
Thought id take a look at that belfoldi dude from std liege we nearly signed,,he's now on loan to w bremen and outta 12 games for both he's scored once in a cup game...i think koeman got that one right
He wouldnt have been signed for his goals, his record in general shows that
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 28, 2017, 11:34:09 PM
Honestly don't even know what's going on in here.


Stay out of the who should we go for thread. Theyíre talking about fighting Katie Price for some reason.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ravardo on October 29, 2017, 12:09:10 AM
He wouldnt have been signed for his goals, his record in general shows that
 

1 Goal in 12 and no assists this year,,last year 6 goals no assists..... we wernt buying him for his assists either i gather
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 29, 2017, 12:24:26 AM
So the question to follow on would be, just how much of negotiating is Steve Walsh responsible for.

If he identifies the individual, conducts some due diligence on the quality of his data, who is responsible for getting the negotiations over the line.

Because if they are shit, and I am specifically looking at Kenwright and his team, Steve has no control over that.

We have no doubt all had incompetent bosses who no matter the quality of info you give them still fuck it up. And IF Steve is in the same position, then I feel for him.

Surely a major part of Walsh's job is to indicate what is a fair price for the players he identifies.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Toddacelli on October 29, 2017, 01:28:54 AM
Stay out of the who should we go for thread. Theyíre talking about fighting Katie Price for some reason.

Brilliant.

It has gone a bit 'my dad's bigger than your dad' in there, weirdly.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on October 29, 2017, 01:54:14 AM
Walsh has bought some very good players and we certainly have some youngsters who can go all the way. My issues with him are:

1. Allowed too much turnover of playing staff
2. Hasnít addressed glaring issues such as striker and LB
3. Hasnít signed a low profile Ďwho the fuck is he? Oh, heís really fucking good!í player from abroad - whereís the scouting genius?

As much as not getting a striker grabs the headlines, itís only having one LB at the club which really pisses me off. Itís bordering on gross negligence. And itís not like weíre short of money? If Walsh canít find a young LB that can share Bainesí workload with a view to establishing himself as a starter, then whyís he here?

1. That's more Koeman. He probably wanted Niasse, McCarthy, Barkley sold as well and is complaining about not getting others. Koeman didn't have to change entire first team, we only sold a couple of key first team players, yet he played 7-8 new ones each game.
2. We have more options than last year in those places, Lukaku was always going to be difficult to replace. DCL, Sandro, Niasse and Rooney offer strength in numbers and options. We were never going to be able to find a like for like replacement for Lukaku, there isn't one. Garbutt might be a decent left back given a chance and we only signed Lewis Gibson few months back.
3. Most hadn't heard much about Sandro. Nobody really noticed Vlasic, even when he played against us. Lookman was not someone I was aware of. Onyekuru was someone I knew was highly rated, but a fair bit obscure.

I thought first summer we didn't actually get that many of the type of exciting young player you wanted, Sambou in under 23s. But this year I thought we definitely did. DCL, Lookman in January, Vlasic, Sandro, Pickford, Klaassen, Keane, Onyekuru in summer. Then we also added 5 more players to under 23s, Adeniran, Bowler, Gibson, Mathis, Markelo.

At Leicester it wasn't overnight that Mahrez, Vardy were success stories, it takes time to settle and talent to emerge. Walsh is able to attract young talented players from higher up the chain, but whether he is right on some or wrong on them all, we'll have to see.

Just think a lot of the players need to be thought of as not finished article, but with potential to grow into. This summer I think there is a lot of that, it's just not reached the surface yet, and that's to be expected initially. But Vlasic, Pickford look ready and I think we'll start to see others coming through over the season and some further in future than that. Onyekuru for example will probably need next season to settle and adjust, so probably looking 2 seasons down the line before performances justify faith and expectations.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Buck76 on October 29, 2017, 01:54:54 PM
I know it comes from the sun but if itís true Walsh wants Allardyce then Sack him IMMEDIATELY!... at least Moshie seems to have the right idea with Silva & Tuchel, if unsies not ready.

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/10/29/report-steve-walsh-wants-everton-to-appoint-allardyce-and-shakes/
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 29, 2017, 01:58:27 PM
Me thinks someone is putting two and two together there and getting some random shit.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Buck76 on October 29, 2017, 02:10:05 PM
Me thinks someone is putting two and two together there and getting some random shit.

Hope so for his sake, he needs to set the record straight thou and stop hiding away like a propa soft shite. Director of Football wedge and hasnít said a fuckin word.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 29, 2017, 03:09:38 PM
Hope so for his sake, he needs to set the record straight thou and stop hiding away like a propa soft shite. Director of Football wedge and hasnít said a fuckin word.

What would you like him to say?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hesmenos on October 29, 2017, 03:57:03 PM
I know it comes from the sun but if itís true Walsh wants Allardyce then Sack him IMMEDIATELY!... at least Moshie seems to have the right idea with Silva & Tuchel, if unsies not ready.

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/10/29/report-steve-walsh-wants-everton-to-appoint-allardyce-and-shakes/

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but if we can't find the manager we want now, then I wouldn't mind Allardyce until the end of the season. It won't be pretty to watch but he will get us a top half finish. Then in the summer there will be a lot more managers for us to choose from. I'd rather we wait till the summer and get the next manager right than make do with a Dyche type now just because he is what's available.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 29, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion, but if we can't find the manager we want now, then I wouldn't mind Allardyce until the end of the season. It won't be pretty to watch but he will get us a top half finish. Then in the summer there will be a lot more managers for us to choose from. I'd rather we wait till the summer and get the next manager right than make do with a Dyche type now just because he is what's available.
I've backed him at 12/1

I can see unsworth staying I'm charge for 6 games, we will win some and lose some and still be around the bottom 6 and moshiri will brick it and go for Allardyce
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on October 29, 2017, 04:10:13 PM
We donít have a forward to lump it to so his standard formula wouldnít work anyway.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 29, 2017, 04:13:16 PM
We don't have a forward to lump it to so his standard formula wouldn't work anyway.
First signing in January
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hesmenos on October 29, 2017, 04:16:38 PM
Is Carlton Cole no longer available?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Buck76 on October 29, 2017, 09:46:34 PM
What would you like him to say?

Explain the transfer master plan, the Italian task force achievements....
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 29, 2017, 09:47:49 PM
Explain the transfer master plan, the Italian task force achievements....

Why should he have to? He'll explain that to the people who pay his wages.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Buck76 on October 29, 2017, 10:45:38 PM
Why should he have to? He'll explain that to the people who pay his wages.

Nah ya right, why should he have to explain himself! DOF must be a Banker/Politician role then, my bad.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on October 29, 2017, 11:53:44 PM
Yes.

Everyone involved in that shambolic summer should be gone
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 30, 2017, 03:53:38 AM
Yes.

Everyone involved in that shambolic summer should be gone
Which one? We had two, donít forget.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 30, 2017, 04:00:59 AM
Yes.

Everyone involved in that shambolic summer should be gone

If he had any real say in the building of that first team squad he should go. The 3 10s and the massive holes at left back and striker are just unacceptable. i can understand getting it wrong and signing a bad player. An idiot knows you need a striker though. An idiot knows we need at least cover at left back. I'm genuinely not sure what they were thinking. Its unexplainable. 100 times worse than what Spurs did with the bale money. Least they signed players for the positions they actually needed. We'd still be fucked if our signings were individual successes
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Stumpy on October 30, 2017, 04:48:54 AM
Without a shadow of doubt he should be sacked.To be left with the pathetic powder puff strikers that we have is a fucking disgrace.None of the crap that we have leading our line would get in any other premiership team.It's beyond belief that this is the best that him and koeman could do,the level of ineptness is fucking staggering.God help the guy that gets the job full time because whoever it is stuck with this dross until Janruary.I'm scared whitless and there's nobody to blame other than them two clowns.For the first time in decades we have had real money to spend,and we've pissed it away.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on October 30, 2017, 05:28:13 AM
What really fucking winds me up is; we signed 3 No.10s yet we are the least creative football team I think I have ever witnessed. Absolutely pathetic standard of football on offer today. I was happy to give Walsh the benefit of the doubt, but the more I think about it, the more I think he should fall on his sword like Koeman has.

To not address the massive holes in the squad is not just footballing suicide, it is an actual dereliction of duty.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on October 30, 2017, 06:04:28 AM
Yes.

Everyone involved in that shambolic summer should be gone

For the squad to be in the shape that it is - if I left my company looking at a key trading period as woefully under armed I would be sacked I think.

Borderline negligent, amateur-hour stuff.

Get a real stats dept, get someone who trusts that kind of work, get a real DOF and lets set out from day one what everyone does and why...we shouldn't be sat here saying who did that who did this why sign him where was the blah blah - unreal that it was allowed.

Tell you what this root and branch analysis I've heard Moshiri wants to conduct better involve a hefty bit of introspection.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 30, 2017, 06:09:34 AM
There is also the rumour that the only signings that were 100% start to finish from Walsh were Vlasic, Sandro and Onyekuru. Apparently all the rest were from Koemans list.

Could be complete bollocks, but them 3 signings in particular do seem to stand out from all the rest.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on October 30, 2017, 01:56:04 PM
I think we need to sack whoever decided our 2nd 3rd and 4th choice strikers were too expensive, even if we had to pay twice what they were worth it would look like money well invested at the moment.

The biggest worry for me is that everyone could see the writing on the wall in the summer, unless we replaced Rom we were going to struggle for goals, yet our board allowed this to happen. In my lifetime of watching Everton this almost ranks up there with Kings Dock with regards to mismanagement at the top, we were on the crest of a wave and this decision could relegate us.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 30, 2017, 02:14:40 PM
There is also the rumour that the only signings that were 100% start to finish from Walsh were Vlasic, Sandro and Onyekuru. Apparently all the rest were from Koemans list.

Could be complete bollocks, but them 3 signings in particular do seem to stand out from all the rest.
Moshiri live on sky was telling jim shite the same thing or as good as,stating that the signings were RK,s.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Heisenberg on October 30, 2017, 02:22:58 PM
It's not even the Failure to replace tom. We all knew that was impossible. But to not even attempt to get a body in, even a yard dog is unforgIveable. I don't even recognise any of the players we have a strikers. They're all variations of attacking mids
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Trowel on October 30, 2017, 02:28:01 PM
I got the impression our failed move for Kolasinac was also driven by Walsh (see, we did try to replace Baines!), and he's done alright with Arsenal.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on October 30, 2017, 02:35:44 PM
Moshiri live on sky was telling jim shite the same thing or as good as,stating that the signings were RK,s.

Well this confuses me even more then and is arguably even more worrying, what does Walsh do? The DoF should oversea all recruitment and have overall sign off, yes that should be done in collaboration with the manager but in what system would you have one person signing a certain amount of players and another doing what he likes?

Ill tell you where, Everton, and look where we are......
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Makis on October 30, 2017, 02:37:00 PM
I got the impression our failed move for Kolasinac was also driven by Walsh (see, we did try to replace Baines!), and he's done alright with Arsenal.
Kolasinac agreed to sign with Arsenal way before the window even opened so he had enough time to identify another target.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueBeagle on October 30, 2017, 02:39:47 PM
There is also the rumour that the only signings that were 100% start to finish from Walsh were Vlasic, Sandro and Onyekuru. Apparently all the rest were from Koemans list.

Could be complete bollocks, but them 3 signings in particular do seem to stand out from all the rest.

Stand out in what way?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 30, 2017, 02:58:37 PM
Stand out in what way?

Young, relatively unknown, cheap.

It's not that difficult to see the difference in the type of signings Walsh wants.

Gueye, DCL, Lookman, Vlasic, Sandro, Onyekuru, Pickford all fit the mould of young and cheap. (Apart from Pickford, but looks worth the money and not overpriced in today's market)

Then the signings rumoured to be more pushed by Koeman.
Bolasie, Williams, Schneiderlin, Stekelenburg, Sigurdsson, Keane, Klaassen,  Rooney, Martina. There's a distinct difference between the 2.

As I said though, could be complete bollocks and Walsh actyally sanctioned them all, good to debate it though.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Faceatthefence on October 30, 2017, 03:02:11 PM
Well this confuses me even more then and is arguably even more worrying, what does Walsh do? The DoF should oversea all recruitment and have overall sign off, yes that should be done in collaboration with the manager but in what system would you have one person signing a certain amount of players and another doing what he likes?

Ill tell you where, Everton, and look where we are......
RK,s system of throwing people under the bus also included Walsh in press conferences and tv interviews during the window,on that score you would assume Walsh was culpable in the window and yet he remains at club.We really dont know the whole story,but clearly the two were at odds.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 30, 2017, 03:49:39 PM
I think we need to sack whoever decided our 2nd 3rd and 4th choice strikers were too expensive, even if we had to pay twice what they were worth it would look like money well invested at the moment.

The biggest worry for me is that everyone could see the writing on the wall in the summer, unless we replaced Rom we were going to struggle for goals, yet our board allowed this to happen. In my lifetime of watching Everton this almost ranks up there with Kings Dock with regards to mismanagement at the top, we were on the crest of a wave and this decision could relegate us.

That's the thing. People keep calling it amateur but it's a lot worse than that. Every single amateur could see it coming. It's simply unexplainable that anyone who's watched a few football matches thought we could survive half a season without a striker. It's inept and that might be being kind
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2017, 04:26:56 PM
I refuse to believe Walsh didn't have a striker shortlist after every man and his dog knew Lukaku was going. It was the one position we needed to strengthen. There must have been differences of opinion between him and Koeman for us to land no-one. We don't know Walsh's full remit but I'm not having that he couldn't identify anyone other than Giroud.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: hill135 on October 30, 2017, 05:43:21 PM
I wish we'd stop speculating about who was a Ron signing and who was a Walsh signing.

None of us have the faintest clue as to the backroom set-up, division of responsibilities and working relationship between DoF and manager.

All we can say for sure is it didn't work but we're not in a position to apportion blame for the above reason.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2017, 05:53:29 PM
Taken in their entirety have any of our transfer windows been a success since Moshiri took over?

Martinez left a seriously disjointed squad in need of reshaping and we haven't managed it despite spending over £200m. First off we sold Stones but didn't spend a penny that window bringing in an ageing Williams, hit and miss Bolasie, Stek and Gueye.

January we bought Lookman who has hardly had a sniff and Schneiderlin who after a decent first half dozen games picked up niggly injuries and has hardly done anything since.

This summer's debacle has been discussed at length. 

This 'root and branch' review Moshiri has mentioned is long overdue but maybe he should look in the mirror too, as every window he's come out and shown his lack of football knowledge and poor judgement by talking shite to football reporters and pundits to attempt to explain away one cock-up after another.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 30, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
I wish we'd stop speculating about who was a Ron signing and who was a Walsh signing.

None of us have the faintest clue as to the backroom set-up, division of responsibilities and working relationship between DoF and manager.

All we can say for sure is it didn't work but we're not in a position to apportion blame for the above reason.

Boring that though isn't it.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 30, 2017, 07:17:27 PM
I wish we'd stop speculating about who was a Ron signing and who was a Walsh signing.

None of us have the faintest clue as to the backroom set-up, division of responsibilities and working relationship between DoF and manager.

All we can say for sure is it didn't work but we're not in a position to apportion blame for the above reason.

It's a forum. If we are only speaking on what we are an authority on we won't have much to talk about
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Gary1878 on October 30, 2017, 07:28:25 PM
In reality what is most likely to have happened is that they sat down on a regular basis together, thrashed out the positions required in the squad, and then Walsh went away and got a shortlist together.

They then both would have sat down again to discuss the best of the shortlist, got agreement from Moshiri, and put in bids for them.

I believe they are both responsible, and it is unlikely that the majority of the signings were made on a individual basis without the prior agreement of the other person.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Stumpy on October 30, 2017, 07:39:08 PM
That's the thing. People keep calling it amateur but it's a lot worse than that. Every single amateur could see it coming. It's simply unexplainable that anyone who's watched a few football matches thought we could survive half a season without a striker. It's inept and that might be being kind

I've just got off the phone to my mate ,and said exactly the same thing to him,it's beyond amateurism.It's unbelievable that it can happen at any premiership club never mind everton.Not a single striker at the club worthy of a start.How the fuck can that happen at a top professional club.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2017, 08:08:45 PM
I've just got off the phone to my mate ,and said exactly the same thing to him,it's beyond amateurism.It's unbelievable that it can happen at any premiership club never mind everton.Not a single striker at the club worthy of a start.How the fuck can that happen at a top professional club.

I'm sure, as the weeks progress, we'll have a few details slip out either from the club or Koeman's camp. Both sides will want to try and distance themselves from blame as we slip further into the mire.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 30, 2017, 08:27:54 PM
I'm sure, as the weeks progress, we'll have a few details slip out either from the club or Koeman's camp. Both sides will want to try and distance themselves from blame as we slip further into the mire.
Koemans already said we had giroud in the building. I have no issues with that and transfers breakdown all the time but where was plan b c d and e
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on October 30, 2017, 09:09:05 PM
Koemans already said we had giroud in the building. I have no issues with that and transfers breakdown all the time but where was plan b c d and e

True. It's like we put it all on Plan A and whilst we may have been confident of that coming off it's usually pretty prudent to have a back up plan. Or two.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Stumpy on October 30, 2017, 09:31:14 PM
I'm sure, as the weeks progress, we'll have a few details slip out either from the club or Koeman's camp. Both sides will want to try and distance themselves from blame as we slip further into the mire.
Oh without doubt the buck will be passed back and for from either camp.It matters not now who's at fault,the bottom line is we've been left with a shambles of a forward line.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on October 31, 2017, 03:33:20 AM
Oh without doubt the buck will be passed back and for from either camp.It matters not now who's at fault,the bottom line is we've been left with a shambles of a forward line.
I think it does matter though if the culprit is still there functioning within the club, which in my opinion he is.  I see little to no reason how Koeman could be implicated in any failure to secure a striker, with the exception that his list entailed players that were so far out of reach they weren't realistic, but considering Giroud was our main target and he was in the building I cant see it.

I can't categorically state that it was Walsh's fault either, but whoever it is that does the negotiating and deals with transfers should be fired, regardless of who they are.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 31, 2017, 03:41:40 AM
I think it does matter though if the culprit is still there functioning within the club, which in my opinion he is.  I see little to no reason how Koeman could be implicated in any failure to secure a striker, with the exception that his list entailed players that were so far out of reach they weren't realistic, but considering Giroud was our main target and he was in the building I cant see it.

I can't categorically state that it was Walsh's fault either, but whoever it is that does the negotiating and deals with transfers should be fired, regardless of who they are.

I think koeman is a little spoilt he wanted who he wanted and there wasn't much room to deviate from it. I tend to blame koeman directly but then it does lead to the question of is Walsh weak and have the roles of manager and DOF been set out right. Think it's a mess both of individuals and the overall structures making
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on October 31, 2017, 03:54:57 AM
I think koeman is a little spoilt he wanted who he wanted and there wasn't much room to deviate from it. I tend to blame koeman directly but then it does lead to the question of is Walsh weak and have the roles of manager and DOF been set out right. Think it's a mess both of individuals and the overall structures making

Which means the real problem is even higher up.

Give you a clue - he smiled and waved at the camera as Sanchez goal hit the back of the fucking net.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 31, 2017, 03:57:46 AM
Which means the real problem is even higher up.

Give you a clue - he smiled and waved at the camera as Sanchez goal hit the back of the fucking net.

I'd fucked off to the gym by then. Was it moshiri? I tend to think he knows fuck all about football right down to actually not knowing that he knows fuck all about football.
We've gone to being a shambolic business to fixing that and being shambolic in football matters
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on October 31, 2017, 04:15:49 AM
I'd fucked off to the gym by then. Was it moshiri? I tend to think he knows fuck all about football right down to actually not knowing that he knows fuck all about football.
We've gone to being a shambolic business to fixing that and being shambolic in football matters

Shite at both imo
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 03, 2017, 02:06:09 AM
I would love to hear his thoughts on the make-up of this squad and why we bought who we bought.

This team has no strengths.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: School of Science on November 03, 2017, 02:11:00 AM
I would love to hear his thoughts on the make-up of this squad and why we bought who we bought.

This team has no strengths.

Think he'd plead the fifth amendment, he'd have to because there can be no answers to that.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 03, 2017, 02:14:11 AM
Guilt by association, fuck him off
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: hill135 on November 03, 2017, 02:15:40 AM
Our recruitment policy seems to be 'sign all the Prem's shite team's best players and see how that goes'.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 03, 2017, 02:16:21 AM
Our recruitment policy seems to be 'sign all the Prem's shite team's best players and see how that goes'.

Bonus points if they're old.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on November 03, 2017, 02:19:45 AM
Yeah. I have had ample time to think about this and I have come to the conclusion that he is a completely boring dullard of a man who is in way over his head and was appointed on the back of Leicesters freak title win.

Given a job title he completely does not warrant and hasn't a fucking clue what hes doing.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 02:20:28 AM
Our recruitment policy seems to be 'sign all the Prem's shite team's best players and see how that goes'.

Well Koeman did say more than once he wanted to sign players who had 'good stats' so we bought three players who have good stats, Sig/Sandro/Klaassan without thinking about how we could get them into the team. It's almost as if we bought them on that basis and threw them together and hoped it'd work.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 03, 2017, 02:22:40 AM
Well Koeman did say more than once he wanted to sign players who had 'good stats' so we bought three players who have good stats, Sig/Sandro/Klaassan without thinking about how we could get them into the team. It's almost as if we bought them on that basis and threw them together and hoped it'd work.
Its a joke.

I think he has to go as we have surely just had the worst pound for pound transfer window in prem history ?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: School of Science on November 03, 2017, 02:48:34 AM
Guilt by association, fuck him off

Should have been sacked with Koeman both were culpable for  A. No striker B. No centre half. C. No right back or Left back. D. Three number tens acquired.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 03, 2017, 02:48:49 AM
Surely the first thing Koeman said to Walsh was Ďfind me the next VVD, the next Mane, the next Pelleí? Not easy but I donít get why we ended up with some of the players we did and why I blame Walsh more than Koeman. RK was left with players that canít play the way heís historically set his teams up...which defies logic and is surely indicative of interference from Walsh/Moshiri.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 02:59:35 AM
Was it even a necessary appointment in the first place at the time we made it? A new manager and a new DoF at the same time wasn't the greatest move, especially when the more senior appointment is a step up and the manager is a Hollywood name with a strong personality.

I suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing but when you run large businesses you need to be employing the best brains at the top of the tree to spot any potential issues before they arise. Knowing the historic issues that have arisen in English football with this structure it needs to be a very careful appointment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on November 03, 2017, 03:07:32 AM
Was it even a necessary appointment in the first place at the time we made it? A new manager and a new DoF at the same time wasn't the greatest move, especially when the more senior appointment is a step up and the manager is a Hollywood name with a strong personality.

I suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing but when you run large businesses you need to be employing the best brains at the top of the tree to spot any potential issues before they arise. Knowing the historic issues that have arisen in English football with this structure it needs to be a very careful appointment.

Koeman has always worked with a DoF so donít see a way around that.

Plus his role will be beyond player recruitment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 03:11:46 AM
Koeman has always worked with a DoF so don’t see a way around that.

Plus his role will be beyond player recruitment.

My point was about Walsh. Was/is this role too big for him? Was it the right appointment at the wrong time? Something has gone horribly wrong somewhere and the blame can't be lay solely at any one individual.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 03:12:05 AM
I need a Mane, a Pelle, a VVD and Vic the Brick.

Also looking at Evertonís squad over the last 15 years, Iím going to need a new Leighton, a new Seamus and finally a new Lukaku.

do you mean THE Wayne Rooney? Of course I would like to sign him and none of the above.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on November 03, 2017, 03:24:28 AM
My point was about Walsh. Was/is this role too big for him? Was it the right appointment at the wrong time? Something has gone horribly wrong somewhere and the blame can't be lay solely at any one individual.

Yes but you can always get two individuals who donít get on.

Maybe thereís an issue that BK is still doing the final negotiations.

If Sigurdsson has been done in a week (weíve probably lost £5m on league positions) surely weíd have had time to get after a back plan for Giroud etc.

Think it would be massively rash to get shut of both and be faced with a double change again.

I would have been much more confident if Monchi hadnít been emotionally blackmailed into to staying at Sevilla for another year though!
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 03:32:54 AM
Yes but you can always get two individuals who don’t get on.

Maybe there’s an issue that BK is still doing the final negotiations.

If Sigurdsson has been done in a week (we’ve probably lost £5m on league positions) surely we’d have had time to get after a back plan for Giroud etc.

Think it would be massively rash to get shut of both and be faced with a double change again.

I would have been much more confident if Monchi hadn’t been emotionally blackmailed into to staying at Sevilla for another year though!

I agree, I think we need to look at how and why we buy players, which ironically is probably what Walsh's appointment was in part to do.

Anyway, onwards and upwards now. Hopefully.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Juanito on November 03, 2017, 03:43:50 AM
We have Southampton reject who is a right back having to play left back, no replacement for ageing Baines.

Williams was 12 million and now his legs have gone after a season.

Klaassen was 25 million and plays like an inhibited Scott Gemmil.

Sigurdsson for 45 million, need I say more.

No striker

Rooney as our highest earner who plays where he wants, gets drunk, breaks the law and walks back into the side because he is Wayne Rooney.


Walshís and Koemanís tenure at Everton is like a 7 year olds first go on Championship Manager.  Say what you like about Moyes but he would do a lot more with the money that these no marks. Yes, we have some good young player signed but Everton did that before him and we have a reputation for giving young kids a chance.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 03:54:35 AM
We have Southampton reject who is a right back having to play left back, no replacement for ageing Baines.

Williams was 12 million and now his legs have gone after a season.

Klaassen was 25 million and plays like an inhibited Scott Gemmil.

Sigurdsson for 45 million, need I say more.

No striker

Rooney as our highest earner who plays where he wants, gets drunk, breaks the law and walks back into the side because he is Wayne Rooney.


Walsh’s and Koeman’s tenure at Everton is like a 7 year olds first go on Championship Manager.  Say what you like about Moyes but he would do a lot more with the money that these no marks. Yes, we have some good young player signed but Everton did that before him and we have a reputation for giving young kids a chance.



To be fair with money comes the higher likelihood of making a mistake when you're buying more players at a higher level. Although I take your point that even so, the recruitment appears to have been done without much thought to how they will be integrated and into what system.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on November 03, 2017, 04:09:58 AM
Heís been onto a loser from day one. His authority and position has been undermined from the start with the club employing a manager who some people were clearly in awe of and who they gave carte Blanche to from the very beginning. The relationship between the DoF and manager should be symbiotic but thatís near impossible with an egotist like Koeman when heís been given such free reign.

Thereís a reason Walsh is still around and Koeman isnít, the club know the facts and the dynamics of whatís gone on. Now theyíve thankfully came to their senses itís fresh start and Walsh should now be given the right backing and power to form a mutual respected relationship with the next manager when heís brought in, whoever he is or whatever his background.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 04:23:38 AM
He's been onto a loser from day one. His authority and position has been undermined from the start with the club employing a manager who some people were clearly in awe of and who they gave carte Blanche to from the very beginning. The relationship between the DoF and manager should be symbiotic but that's near impossible with an egotist like Koeman when he's been given such free reign.

There's a reason Walsh is still around and Koeman isn't, the club know the facts and the dynamics of what's gone on. Now they've thankfully came to their senses it's fresh start and Walsh should now be given the right backing and power to form a mutual respected relationship with the next manager when he's brought in, whoever he is or whatever his background.
Yet koeman and Reed worked well.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 03, 2017, 04:33:48 AM
Yet koeman and Reed worked well.

Reed was there first. He had well-defined power.

Walsh? We barely know what he's been responsible for.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on November 03, 2017, 04:35:36 AM
Yet koeman and Reed worked well.

They had their fair share of fallouts.

Reed wanted him sacked at one point.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 04:36:00 AM
They had their fair share of fallouts.

Reed wanted him sacked at one point.
True
They still worked tho
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on November 03, 2017, 04:36:12 AM
We have a striker that we spent money on but won't play. This season is maddening. Genuinely starting to think this is the season we go down.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 04:36:39 AM
Reed was there first. He had well-defined power.

Walsh? We barely know what he's been responsible for.
The thing with Walsh for me is.... Is he a dof or a scout?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 04:37:02 AM
We have a striker that we spent money on but won't play. This season is maddening. Genuinely starting to think this is the season we go down.
Who?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 03, 2017, 04:38:40 AM
The thing with Walsh for me is.... Is he a dof or a scout?

Moshiri and Kenwright don't seem to have it figured it out so what chance do the rest of us have?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: terrydarracotsbaldpate on November 03, 2017, 04:45:26 AM
Now he really is a PE teacher
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on November 03, 2017, 04:46:11 AM
Who?

Sandro.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 03, 2017, 04:49:40 AM
Sandro.
Ah ok
He's struggled so far like but yeah
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on November 03, 2017, 05:13:33 AM
Ah ok
He's struggled so far like but yeah

He didn't look great at first, then got the injury and has disappeared off the face of the earth. Seems odd he isn't even on the bench as an option. In fact, no, it doesn't. Nothing fucking surprises me about this club anymore this season. Absolute mess.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 06:22:45 AM
Goalkeeper:
Pickford
Robles
Stek

Right Back:
Coleman
Kenny
Cuco

Left Back:
Baines

Centreback:
Keane
Jags
Williams
RFM
Holgate

DM:
Schneiderlin
Gana
McCarthy
Besic
Beni

CM:
Davies
Klaassen
Sigurdsson

Wing:
Mirallas
Lennon
Vlasic
Lookman
Bolassie

Striker:
Rooney
DCL
Sandro

What do you think?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 03, 2017, 01:06:04 PM
Almost all of those players fall into the past it or not ready category. The rest: good but have barely shown it in an Everton shirt or not for ages. In goal is the only positioned day weíre fine; good, young number 1 with experienced back-up.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on November 03, 2017, 01:28:00 PM
I think the reality is squad is improved, mainly in terms of potential, but first 11 is much worse. But we also lost our 3 most important and well connected players. Anyone who played in team knew what to expect from them and how to play alongside them.

Lukaku scored all the goals, and was going to require a redesign to replace. We setup to play to his strengths and there isn't a better Lukaku, you have to adapt.

Barkley created the vast majority of our play, in terms of dribbling, connecting play, trying to create chances and drawing attention. We don't have a creative player you can build a team around, like a De Bruyne, but most teams don't. And again this is a case of adapting, but here you can even split roles. As in you can get a great passer and another player who can dribble.

Barry, I'm not sure anyone quite appreciated his quality on the ball, until we didn't have it. His positional and defensive nous often gave us added security, but it's his distribution and quality on the ball that we've probably missed most on regular basis. There aren't many players who look up or play anything different to anyone else.

In terms of direct replacements, Davies has got a few assists and shown signs of the wider distribution. Barry would have chopped Demerai Gray, and he's tried more than others. But with Beni, Gana, Schneiderlin as well, its not a major issue and you don't need great distribution there, its a bonus or option.

In terms of replacing Barkley, we have Vlasic, who has shown signs of being to dribble through several players, retain possession and move us forward. His passing looks more simple than incisive, but he's still a peripheral figure on field.

In terms of replacing Lukaku, we have Sandro. Hasn't had many chances and struggled when he did. DCL has held ball up better, and Niasse has 

The volume of options, meant that no one really got game time or has settled that well.

Look at the wingers and there is creative players who can run with the ball, strikers are decent enough to score goals. In hindisght I think this could still be a very good window, but right now we have nothing.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 03, 2017, 02:08:39 PM
I think koeman moshiri and kenwright have treated him just like a scout. I don't think he's responsible for the current mess beyond being too weak to do the role he should be
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Hawkandro on November 03, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
What do you think?

I think it wouldn't look so bad if we had the players fit, but we have RFM out for the season, Bolasie and Coleman out for maybe 50% of it. Not only have we not strengthened the main areas we needed to (Striker, LB), but we have failed to adequately replace these injured players too.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 02:45:27 PM
Yet koeman and Reed worked well.

They didn't really. They tolerated each other but luckily Reed is part of the furniture there so he had the final say and Koeman reluctantly accepted it.

Obviously have no evidence but I think Koeman thought he was top dog here and with the owner coming out with phrases like 'Koeman is Koeman, he does what he wants' it's hardly conducive to a healthy environment.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Macca77 on November 03, 2017, 04:24:00 PM
Questions certainly need to be asked as to what Walsh has actually done since he came here
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 04:26:40 PM
They didn't really. They tolerated each other but luckily Reed is part of the furniture there so he had the final say and Koeman reluctantly accepted it.

Obviously have no evidence but I think Koeman thought he was top dog here and with the owner coming out with phrases like 'Koeman is Koeman, he does what he wants' it's hardly conducive to a healthy environment.

Well Koeman wanted a striker and a left sided defender and we got neither so he didnít get everything his own way.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on November 03, 2017, 04:39:02 PM
A lot has been made about the lack of genuine quality  striker but the upper management of the club including the directors, plushWalsh and Koeman all made a massive error in not identifying how defensively frail we are.

I know having a better striker and more of a goal threat would make us less likely to concede goals but we have had Steve fucking Watson playing as our main striker in the past and we didn't look this bad defensively.

Our (outfield) defence is a shambles and there is a real lack of leadership despite the relative experience of our senior defenders.

Jags, Williams and Baines all need to be replaced sooner rather than later and aside from Keane, who does not look like he has the experience or leadership skills yet, we made no planning for the short to medium term future here aside from buying Martina as a stop gap.

I don't think this responsibility falls directly on Walsh, I think it should have been the collective responsibility of Walsh and Koeman and the board to plan player recruitment for the short, mid and long term. But we did none of the this in the defensive department. We have bought talented exciting youngsters but we need to identify and recruit defenders who are in or coming into their prime who will take us into the upper echelon of clubs.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on November 03, 2017, 04:43:07 PM
Well Koeman wanted a striker and a left sided defender and we got neither so he didnít get everything his own way.

In addition to not acquiring a left back we need to question some of the decisions made regarding the squad

Having not signed a left back, why did we not include Luke Garbutt as part of the squad or not send Connolly out on loan?

Why have we not planned for Baines getting injured?

Assuming it was Koeman's decision on the final squad, did anybody question him on contingency plans for players getting injured.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: dazfrancis on November 03, 2017, 04:43:44 PM
In addition to not acquiring a left back we need to question some of the decisions made regarding the squad in response to the lack of left-backs

Having not signed a left back, why did we not include Luke Garbutt as part of the squad or not send Connolly out on loan?

Why have we not planned for Baines getting injured?

Assuming it was Koeman's decision on the final squad, did anybody question him on contingency plans for players getting injured.


Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ross on November 03, 2017, 04:43:58 PM
Well Koeman wanted a striker and a left sided defender and we got neither so he didnít get everything his own way.

He also wanted Sigurdsson and Rooney and thereís no way in my opinion he wasnít involved in bringing Klaasen in from his old club from his own country.

The money isnít infinite and the limited finances needed distributing more evenly. But even then the club pandered to his pursuit of the one and only forward he demand acceptable, to the detriment of more prudent squad building, and it came down to a lifestyle choice for Giroud and his wife not a financial matter.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 04:52:14 PM
In addition to not acquiring a left back we need to question some of the decisions made regarding the squad

Having not signed a left back, why did we not include Luke Garbutt as part of the squad or not send Connolly out on loan?

Why have we not planned for Baines getting injured?

Assuming it was Koeman's decision on the final squad, did anybody question him on contingency plans for players getting injured.



These are all DOF questions imo
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Waltzer on November 03, 2017, 07:04:05 PM
Good article by the Mail with some quotes which should finally put to bed some of the rumours about who does most of the signings at Everton, from my perspective the answer to the title of this thread is YES!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5046209/Steve-Walsh-blame-Everton-shambles.html

Walsh, towards the end of last season, went on record and he made it clear that he would not sign a player he had not seen live in action and how 'you just need a few more pieces, then you have a top four side.'
Prior to that, came another declaration in an interview with The Times last Boxing Day.
Asked about his role, he seized the opportunity to champion his credentials, saying: 'You would have to be daft to think I wasn't brought in for my recruiting talents. I'll spend money as it was my own. I won't waste it.'

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 03, 2017, 08:07:31 PM
Well Koeman wanted a striker and a left sided defender and we got neither so he didnít get everything his own way.

Maybe because he had too much say on the list of targets? Short of Walsh kidnapping them what can he do with a list of players we can't get
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 03, 2017, 08:18:37 PM
What a fucking mess top to bottom. Personally I just think much of his role in terms of first team recruiting was eaten up by koeman who had no track record for it at Southampton
Should we sack Walsh? Probably not for the work he did but maybe for the work he didn't do in terms of actually taking control. Does leave big questions of them above who let koeman make decisions he shouldn't have been making

We've had a manager with no record of buying players picking the expensive talents and the DOF doing cheap punts and youth players.
The all should be embarrassed from moshiri down. Laughable incompetence from all
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2017, 08:46:09 PM
Jan last chance saloon whatever happened.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: TheRam on November 03, 2017, 11:27:31 PM
He's clearly got a good eye for a player.

But as director of football he has to take the blame for assembling the most unbalanced squad in the premier league.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 04, 2017, 03:17:27 AM
Because I'm bored, here's my "What If Walsh/Koeman Were Right" starting eleven.

GK: Pickford
RB: Holgate*
CB: Keane
CB: Williams
LB: Baines**
DM: Schneiderlin
CM: Klaassen
CM: Sigurdsson
RAM: Vlasic
CF: Rooney
LAM: Sandro

* Glad the lad is alright after yesterday's scare but Koeman was 100% wrong on Martina. Not including him.
** Amazing that a Moyes player still makes this eleven.

Would be a hell of an experiment to see if you could get that Sigurdsson-Klaassen-Rooney triangle to space itself properly because there are, in theory, lots of interesting movements you could orchestrate with all of the positional flexibility there (stuff like Rooney dropping off or pulling out wide, with Klaassen and/or Sigurdsson running beyond him into the box).

Of course, in reality, we've seen the three of them on the pitch together and they look like they've never met, despite presumably training together.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on November 04, 2017, 12:36:40 PM
Because I'm bored, here's my "What If Walsh/Koeman Were Right" starting eleven.

GK: Pickford
RB: Holgate*
CB: Keane
CB: Williams
LB: Baines**
DM: Schneiderlin
CM: Klaassen
CM: Sigurdsson
RAM: Vlasic
CF: Rooney
LAM: Sandro

* Glad the lad is alright after yesterday's scare but Koeman was 100% wrong on Martina. Not including him.
** Amazing that a Moyes player still makes this eleven.

Would be a hell of an experiment to see if you could get that Sigurdsson-Klaassen-Rooney triangle to space itself properly because there are, in theory, lots of interesting movements you could orchestrate with all of the positional flexibility there (stuff like Rooney dropping off or pulling out wide, with Klaassen and/or Sigurdsson running beyond him into the box).

Of course, in reality, we've seen the three of them on the pitch together and they look like they've never met, despite presumably training together.

Yes but how often and how were they drilled (given that itís taken that Koeman probably expected a certain level of understanding without the need for specific exercises)?

Plus by also having the other 2 in the front 5 as new players there are even more potential mis-reads / misunderstandings etc.

This is where the constant formation changes (not helped by the fixtures admittedly) were such a hinderance.

4/5 of these should be playing their 11th league game tomorrow whereas have we had Rooney, Sigurdsson, Klaassen more than twice? Let alone all 5.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: kramer0 on November 04, 2017, 06:33:38 PM
Yes but how often and how were they drilled (given that itís taken that Koeman probably expected a certain level of understanding without the need for specific exercises)?

Plus by also having the other 2 in the front 5 as new players there are even more potential mis-reads / misunderstandings etc.

This is where the constant formation changes (not helped by the fixtures admittedly) were such a hinderance.

4/5 of these should be playing their 11th league game tomorrow whereas have we had Rooney, Sigurdsson, Klaassen more than twice? Let alone all 5.

The lack of understanding was definitely a problem but I think the biggest hindrance to getting the new players to function together was Koeman's insistence on long balls out of defense. Most of the new signings do their best work with the ball at their feet and options around them. Asking them to chase after scraps was a pretty serious miscalculation.

We basically built this team around a type of player we never bought. Which is embarrassing for all sorts of reasons. Say we got Giroud and he was, in fact, the perfect player to tie everything together. What if he gets injured? This squad needed a B-level target man too and it's a bit ridiculous that we didn't go for one. Mounie and Haller were not particularly expensive.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GLewis on November 04, 2017, 06:47:40 PM
The lack of understanding was definitely a problem but I think the biggest hindrance to getting the new players to function together was Koeman's insistence on long balls out of defense. Most of the new signings do their best work with the ball at their feet and options around them. Asking them to chase after scraps was a pretty serious miscalculation.

We basically built this team around a type of player we never bought. Which is embarrassing for all sorts of reasons. Say we got Giroud and he was, in fact, the perfect player to tie everything together. What if he gets injured? This squad needed a B-level target man too and it's a bit ridiculous that we didn't go for one. Mounie and Haller were not particularly expensive.

Oh yeah I agree with all that.

I just mean that after that player didnít materialise then we should have been working really hard on making easier passing options for the back 3/4.

While his pragmatism could be a positive, itís clear that he was happy for players to get shut if they werenít confident and / or under pressure.

Think that comes back to his natural assumption that because he could do it, then so should other top flight players etc.

Anyway back on thread...

Iíve watched Haller a couple of times recently (scored last night) and not sure heís someone who looks like that should be made for the PL but still a bit gangly.

But yes, given that we needed a back up anyway, relatively cheap ďgamblesĒ.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: therealdunc on November 05, 2017, 01:53:10 AM
Sigurdsson was a Koeman signing, this is the reason he was chased all summer as Koeman said he would replace a lot of Romís goals.

This has been reported by numerous club sources and media.

I donít know about the other signings except Martina who was also a Koeman signing and Onyekuru who was a Walsh signing.

Again, the above were confirmed by the people themselves or club sources and by media.

Sacking Walsh would seem counter productive.

The only bad signing so far has been Klaassen, the rest have proven decent or not been given enough of a chance such as Sandro. 2 of them (Rooney and Pickford) have proven to be great signings.

The worst signings were last season.
Williams who has done nothing and is on big wages and Schneiderlin who has been a woeful signing and is one of the clubs highest earners 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 05, 2017, 02:33:29 AM
Sigurdsson was a Koeman signing, this is the reason he was chased all summer as Koeman said he would replace a lot of Romís goals.

This has been reported by numerous club sources and media.

I donít know about the other signings except Martina who was also a Koeman signing and Onyekuru who was a Walsh signing.

Again, the above were confirmed by the people themselves or club sources and by media.

Sacking Walsh would seem counter productive.

The only bad signing so far has been Klaassen, the rest have proven decent or not been given enough of a chance such as Sandro. 2 of them (Rooney and Pickford) have proven to be great signings.

The worst signings were last season.
Williams who has done nothing and is on big wages and Schneiderlin who has been a woeful signing and is one of the clubs highest earners 

I'm really not sure Pickford has been great. He flaps a lot. He's been decent in a sea of shit. Rooney absolutely hasn't been great. He's been 1 of the better of the shits in said sea
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 05, 2017, 04:43:03 PM
Recruitment was all a bit arse about face wasn't it. Let's build a side around a player we don't actually have yet and then when said player doesn't materialise we're snookered. I don't care if you did or didn't buy the players as a DoF you have to take responsibility for letting it happen.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 05, 2017, 11:56:01 PM
You know what they all need shooting....koeman, Walsh, kenright, moshri.  Honestly bunch of clueless cunts.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Thomas on November 07, 2017, 07:08:03 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Martip on November 07, 2017, 11:41:46 PM
Walsh....get off my land
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on November 08, 2017, 11:14:44 PM
I see the rabble is well represented.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluenose1962 on November 09, 2017, 07:16:12 PM
Feel I have to add my two pence worth here. For me its not only Walsh who needs looking at but our amateur board is also culpable. We all knew for 12 months that our striker was not going to sign a new contract and was leaving. 12 months to find a new number 9. So Giroud was in the building but who was plan B or plan C. Surely someone at the top must have been asking these questions of both Walsh and Koeman. What happens if we dont get Giroud who is our back up. We pay Steve Walsh a lot of money and I am unconvinced of the value of that pay packet at this time. Walsh apparently wanted another Belgian, whom Koeman did not want, who eventually signed for Dortmund and has scored once in 9. Quoted recently as seeing himself as a number 10 not a 9. Maybe the fetish with the number 10 is Walshs not Koemans.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: BlueMaquis on November 09, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
Feel I have to add my two pence worth here. For me its not only Walsh who needs looking at but our amateur board is also culpable. We all knew for 12 months that our striker was not going to sign a new contract and was leaving. 12 months to find a new number 9. So Giroud was in the building but who was plan B or plan C. Surely someone at the top must have been asking these questions of both Walsh and Koeman. What happens if we dont get Giroud who is our back up. We pay Steve Walsh a lot of money and I am unconvinced of the value of that pay packet at this time. Walsh apparently wanted another Belgian, whom Koeman did not want, who eventually signed for Dortmund and has scored once in 9. Quoted recently as seeing himself as a number 10 not a 9. Maybe the fetish with the number 10 is Walshs not Koemans.

Maybe we need a "should we sack the board?" thread
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Bluenose1962 on November 09, 2017, 11:07:59 PM
Maybe we need a "should we sack the board?" thread
Not exactly what I said, but they are as much to blame as Walsh and Koeman. TO not sign a striker is criminal. TO not ensure that your Director of Football and your Coach is just as criminal
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 10, 2017, 12:31:59 AM
Iím beginning to hate all these threads...because I genuinely want to start looking forward, however, every time we put in another shite performance or get linked with a fucking grim manager or have to choose a starting 11 from an average/disinterested/ageing/out-of-form/unbalanced squad...it all comes back to this.

Which is ultimately the fault of the board.

Who are in charge.

And will make the next load of decisions.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: hill135 on November 18, 2017, 11:18:03 PM
Coming round to the view that this guyís a bit of a joker. Heís loaded the squad with over priced overpaid tat.

Elementary scouting seems to have been ignored. Even people on here were saying that Sig is a deadball merchant and that Keane was adept at defending the six yard line but maybe not the halfway line.

Proper dinosaur, like every other 60-odd year old english bloke from the fotball establishment
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: everton1952 on November 18, 2017, 11:23:47 PM
But I thought he was welcomed as an architect of Leicester's championship. Has he had a brain transplant, is he "a joker"  or is this all a load of uninformed misplaced shite, like "Sack the whole lot" for example. I don't know, I am just asking. 
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on November 18, 2017, 11:27:19 PM
A complete dullard, farce of a man who was appointed on the back of something that will literally never happen again in football.

Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Ridge on November 18, 2017, 11:27:54 PM
It's a lot of decent pieces of the jigsaw, just from lots of different jigsaws.

Sigurdsson is good on set pieces and crosses, but we have no real aerial threat.

Sandro is quick, but we have no one who can play through balls.

Keane is a good defender, just about as slow as any player I can remember.

Walsh has to take fair amount of blame, but for me, the majority of blame still lies with Koeman. Walsh identifies players, but he's working and trying to fit with managers idea and way of playing. It's up to manager to instruct and think about how it fits together, whether it will work. I think he just thought, yeah buy lots of talent and I'll work something out. He was reasonably hands off in regards to recruitment, hence his complaints a couple of months into season.

We just can't do anything about it until the next window.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: everton1952 on November 18, 2017, 11:31:47 PM
A complete dullard, farce of a man who was appointed on the back of something that will literally never happen again in football.


Wow, I guess you don't rate him very highly then?
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Lxxx on November 18, 2017, 11:39:24 PM
As I said on the other thread we could have quite literally bought no outfield players in the summer for all the good the £120m or so has had on the first team.

There looks to be more of a disconnect at the club than ever, with too many people involved in the decision making process now meaning their doesn't look to be a cohesive strategy when it comes to buying players.
Title: Re: Should we sack Steve Walsh?
Post by: Cozzie on November 18, 2017, 11:41:02 PM
Wow, I guess you don't rate him very highly then?

Lets just say if I met him, I'd blag that my shoelaces where untied and trip and (hopefully) head butt him without hurting my self in the process.