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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: Ridge on November 02, 2017, 01:21:37 AM

Title: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 02, 2017, 01:21:37 AM
We have had a few threads on Koeman, on Walsh as to addressing problems in terms of the team.

When Koeman was struggling he was blaming the recruitment and I think most see his point in terms of balance. With Walsh I think there are questions about some of the players and the maybe the fees, but we had to do a lot of business very quickly. Not only replacing key players, european fixtures, but with increased ambition and pockets. People knew Lukaku was going and we had money, there was no way to get around that, and Moshiri always talked about spending big, probably getting a bit ahead of things in terms of expectations.

But I'm starting to strongly suspect Sigurdsson is actually Moshiri's 'special' player. Walsh and Koeman rate him, but neither seems to want to own him and he has played a bit like an outcast. It ended up at the sort of figure I think someone higher up had to love.
Both Walsh and Koeman would have had a hard job convincing people to spend that sort of money or for what purpose.

For Walsh, that's not going to make a profit, and he doesn't really fit the mould of what Koeman wanted. I think it was a case that no one else was going to question the wisdom of the person in charge, that fits Moshiri better than anyone else given circumstances. It's clearly not the right tool for the job, its not a prudent investment and Koeman specifically said he had no creativity, I took that as a direct or indirect swipe at Sigurdsson given his assists.

Koeman had to go and I think that it was clear that Moshiri was one of the last few to believe it was going to work. But Unsworth was not really on his radar of interest, he wants someone with the results on paper, the excitement for the fans. But he's not given any encouragement or support to Unsworth, and seems to have already excluded in his mind. To be undermining after a couple of games is stupid.

Change direction decisively and don't panic when you've only just changed. If you give Unsworth 4 games, back him for the duration and don't undermine him. If you want to ensure survival, we could give Unsworth period to get team playing to introduce youngsters and give a new manager the start of a team. But put him under the knife from the off and what are you expecting? I can understand he wants control and authority and sees his project slipping down the pan, but I think we are in danger of getting a rotating deck chairs on titanic scenario. Lots of people want to settle for security early, but we have time and players to get out of this, but we need to build a bit of continuity.

I'm really not keen on the gossiping to Jim White, it's like he has a better idea or role than he needs. Sanchez, by all means break the bank for, but do we need to embarrass ourselves pleading for his affection, not long after the window has closed. He's not our player, he's a key player at a bigger club, it's embarrassing.

Chairmen are supposed to oversee, not to interfere and distract. There just seems too much desire to be the centre of attention in a way that even Kenwright appreciated he shouldn't. Say what you want about Kenwright, he knew his time to shine and when it was time to reflect or support a manager rather than scramble everything through anxiety and fear.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 02, 2017, 01:29:16 AM
And to be clear this is more intended as an observation or critique than a call to oust him or build resentment.

I know some will take exception to Kenwright being put in a favourable light. And I have huge appreciation for the direction the club is going under Moshiri with the new stadium and investing in the things we already did well to take them to another stage.

I just worry that some of the good work is getting undermined out of panic. Think he just needs to calm his shit down and we had lots more of these sorts of problems in Kenwright's early days. It's not all stuff you intuitively know, sometimes you want fans to know you want better, that you're trying your hardest, but sometimes you have to stand in the way of the turds being flung, not deflect them internally.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: blueToffee on November 02, 2017, 01:44:25 AM
I thought Koeman wanted Sigurdsson since the summer he came in..? I thought there were rumours or stories of that nature even back then. He didn't particularly rate Barkley at any stage is my personal opinion, hence all the calling him out comparative to other players.

So Koeman (IMO) wanted him out and we ended up with Rooney, Sigurdsson and Klaassen coming in.

I'd genuinely love to know the backroom thinking and who was pulling the strings on those picks. If any of those three was a vanity project for the sake of the board you'd have to wonder about Rooney. I tend to think though that wasn't that either, we were likely approached to see if we were interested and it went from there. Koeman always seemed on board with that one too. In fact, Koeman seemingly was on board with all of them...he only seems to have put his transfer problems at the feet of not getting in Giroud. To a certain extent, his plan while not probably leading to awesome football would have been a fair bit better with a player of that ability up front. So I doubt Sigurdsson was a misstep to him.

Overall though, I don't think aside from media interviews there has been any sign of Moshiri interfering in the transfer plans.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Cereal Killer on November 02, 2017, 02:20:21 AM
No, if it was Moshiri who really wanted Sigurdsson he'd of just paid the asking price rather than dicking around for ages over a few million
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Bluedylan on November 02, 2017, 02:28:42 AM
I like him, and have found very little to complain about in his time here. Not even that arsed about the Jim White stuff.

He's still got plenty to learn, no doubt, and the club probably does need a bit of an overhaul in some key positions, but I remember the pre-Moshiri days all too clearly and I look at some of the other foreign owners and am relieved that he's benevolent and not insane.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: blue slug on November 02, 2017, 02:30:45 AM
He makes cash available so all our problems are down to poor purchases and poor management simple as that
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: toffee_scot on November 02, 2017, 02:52:09 AM
But I'm starting to strongly suspect Sigurdsson is actually Moshiri's 'special' player. Walsh and Koeman rate him, but neither seems to want to own him and he has played a bit like an outcast. It ended up at the sort of figure I think someone higher up had to love.

I thought Koeman had wanted Sigurdsson ever since he was still the manager of Southampton, I think Koeman just struggled to utilise him properly because we had Rooney playing in the exact same role and the manager felt obliged to play Rooney as a guaranteed started for 90 minutes most games. If anything I think Rooney is the 'special' player that the board identified.

Both Walsh and Koeman would have had a hard job convincing people to spend that sort of money or for what purpose.

For Walsh, that's not going to make a profit, and he doesn't really fit the mould of what Koeman wanted. I think it was a case that no one else was going to question the wisdom of the person in charge, that fits Moshiri better than anyone else given circumstances. It's clearly not the right tool for the job, its not a prudent investment and Koeman specifically said he had no creativity, I took that as a direct or indirect swipe at Sigurdsson given his assists.

I wonder who actually controls the budget for transfers and other related fees at the club. From my understanding, Kenwright was the one who negotiated the Sigurdsson deal as he was the one who mentioned to the player he would get the deal done but it would take time. Very little is known about Walsh's remit at the club except he helped identify players for the manager, basically a chief scout of some sort.

Moshiri's background is in accounting, so I would have thought he would be the one most concerned about the books at the club. Since he's been a shareholder at the club, we have done much better on the business side of things including securing more lucrative sponsorship deals in certain areas.

Sometimes though, clubs just have to buy a player entering their peak years (27-30yrs) because they are more likely to hit the ground running with their quality and instantly improve a side. You can't always view these deals in terms of re-sale value. The club probably genuinely thought Sigurdsson was the player who would transform Everton from just a top 7 side into a top-4 competing side.

Chairmen are supposed to oversee, not to interfere and distract. There just seems too much desire to be the centre of attention in a way that even Kenwright appreciated he shouldn't. Say what you want about Kenwright, he knew his time to shine and when it was time to reflect or support a manager rather than scramble everything through anxiety and fear.

Moshiri's PR strategy is still something I don't quite understand. He hasn't really been shown interacting or speaking directly to the Everton fans except one FA Cup victory against Chelsea and then the AGM last year. He seems to have kept largely a low profile except on transfer deadline day or occasionally he would message Jim White with some of his comments have been cringe-worthy at best. To be fair Kenwright has also had some sound bites that would have come back to haunt him like "watch this space" during a disappointing transfer window or "what a manager" a couple of months before Martinez was sacked.

I wouldn't say Moshiri wants to be the centre of attention but I think he is still coming to terms with being the big shot at a big club and has had to make some major decisions and plans for managerial changes, implementing a director of football structure and of course improving the business side of things where he is probably more comfortable working within. 





 
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Simon Paul on November 02, 2017, 03:00:59 AM
Well the reason we were linked with Sissoko was because Moshiri was "desperate" to make a marquee signing and spend £30m on one player. He didn't seem to care who it was apparently, he just wanted to make a statement.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Confucius on November 02, 2017, 03:04:42 AM
Well the reason we were linked with Sissoko was because Moshiri was "desperate" to make a marquee signing and spend £30m on one player. He didn't seem to care who it was apparently, he just wanted to make a statement.

What I would do to have a Sissoko in this team right now.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: bluenuck on November 02, 2017, 03:19:59 AM
Well the reason we were linked with Sissoko was because Moshiri was "desperate" to make a marquee signing and spend £30m on one player. He didn't seem to care who it was apparently, he just wanted to make a statement.

Source?
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: blue slug on November 02, 2017, 03:41:03 AM
Well the reason we were linked with Sissoko was because Moshiri was "desperate" to make a marquee signing and spend £30m on one player. He didn't seem to care who it was apparently, he just wanted to make a statement.

Not the best way of thinking when buying players
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: bluenuck on November 02, 2017, 03:41:37 AM
Not the best way of thinking when buying players

How do we know he was thinking this??
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: School of Science on November 02, 2017, 04:14:27 AM
Koeman full stop wanted Sigurdsson, think Koeman mentioned he could be the difference about us getting Champions league. Koeman became frustrated that the Sigurdsson signing dragged on, it was even mentioned about Moshiri falling out with Swansea's American owners over them keep hiking the price up. To finish off Koeman actually thanked BK  for negotiating and agreeing the deal with Swansea. That was according to the numerous stories on the back pages of different newspapers at the time.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: kramer0 on November 02, 2017, 04:37:59 AM
The "statement" stuff is a load of crap. Spending big on a mediocre player is embarrassing and nobody takes notice except to laugh at you after the fact for having a ridiculous valuation. Same deal for managers. It might feel good to hire Ronald Koeman and make him one of the highest paid managers in the world but, in reality, he was never anywhere close to being worth the fuss.

Moshiri's done well at stabilizing our finances and improving our commercial deals but I'm yet to see any evidence that he knows anything about football. The Koeman/Walsh combo was a shambles of the highest order and I doubt the next manager is going to make us any less of a disaster, especially given the names linked.

So... make me eat my words, Farhad.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Audrey Horne on November 02, 2017, 04:56:35 AM
Not impressed at all recently. Dont think he has a clue.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 02, 2017, 06:44:58 AM
A manager will always want more options, Koeman and Walsh were both very keen on Sigurdsson. It's Koeman's responsibility to welcome him and look delighted to press, I'm not saying others weren't interested, but someone is taking authority on that price tag.  It limited our ability in terms of offers and options, later in the window. Someone wouldn't  take no for an answer and we had to pull plug on more important positions we were still trying to fill. Obviously Giroud and Costa didn't happen, we got Vlasic who fell in our lap, but needs time.

Just wonder if some interference from above might make sense of the confusion, in terms of forcing Walsh or Koeman to adjust plans. We had been hoping for a premium option to open up and didn't directly replace Barkley's creativity or Lukaku's goals, £50m on Sigurdsson gives us a set piece taker. What if Kenwright sorted Rooney, Koeman wanted Klaassen and Walsh or Moshiri wanted Sigurdsson anyway. I'm just struggling to understand how you end up with 3 number 10s, but no dribblers or passers, no real dynamic creative player or direct goal threat.

Sigurdsson does fit the pattern of some of the older signings under Walsh. Bolasie cost what seemed a lot, Williams was reasonably expensive for his age and a strange buy when we had Jags, but experienced important players for teams lower in PL. We had a lack of creative players when Bolasie got injured and then Barkley, we knew both had injuries. Vlasic, Lookman look potential but haven't really been given much time and DCL, Sandro have looked like potential longer terms solutions up front.

My concern is that Moshiri is thinking that money spent is still good and another manager has a champions league team on their hands. In current climate 7th would be good for Everton. We could utilise Keane and play more like Burnley, set pieces from Sigurdsson, lump and run, faster players up top and play basketball. To grind out draws, clean sheets, nick the odd win and get some momentum. But I don't see fans being happy and I don't see Moshiri being happy with that compromise, not yet.

It's trying to get blood from a stone, given what we have. Any expansive manager is going to face similar limitations in terms of slow unfamiliar or aging centre back pairing, full backs not that productive or athletic, no creative player and no proven goalscorer. The only way around it is playing the players we have into a team and into form. His recent words and actions are starting to make me think he could be backseat driving or causing unnecessary issues with unrealistic expectations and pressure.

I also wouldn't rule out Barton talking to Jim White about Unsworth having effect on Moshiri. He seems to listen and rate topics on talksport or sky as worthy of response or reaction. I could see him going for a trendy name who's had time and support elsewhere and expect instant changes, or hire a short term firefighter on a short contract who has no major incentive to build, just squeezing the turd.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Macca77 on November 02, 2017, 02:04:15 PM
Lets get rid and go back to the dark days of not having a pot to piss in, leave the cladding though
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lazarou on November 02, 2017, 02:23:52 PM
Amazing how soon we forget how dilapidated Goodison was, a new stadium was a pipe dream, dropping £45 million on one player, investing in the youth facilities, upping our wage structure, paying £6 million a year to a manager. The list goes on there has been some bollocks well and truly dropped but there isn't a club out there that doesn't make mistakes and continues to.

Not sure how he can influence the shit that has been going on, on the pitch, that's what you pay someone £6 million a year for.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Macca77 on November 02, 2017, 02:46:24 PM
People are never happy, always moan about shit like the "net spend"
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: TheRam on November 02, 2017, 03:13:07 PM
People are never happy, always moan about shit like the "net spend"

But you can see why people are unhappy with how the club is at the moment and why people at all levels are being questioned?

Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Glory on November 02, 2017, 03:18:42 PM
Actually I don't think you can be all that unhappy with how the club has performed commercially since he has taken over.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueMaquis on November 03, 2017, 06:07:14 AM

What I'm not happy with is the organisational structure. We have a DOF whose role is unclear to everyone. We have Elstone as CEO and who has just been appointed to the Board. How does that work? If Elstone is underperforming he is part of the structure that decides whether or not he is terminated? Where is the accountability?

If Moshiri is responsible for those changes, I don't see our apparent commercial success lasting very long.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: blueski on November 03, 2017, 06:55:11 AM
What I'm not happy with is the organisational structure. We have a DOF whose role is unclear to everyone.
his role is unclear to us the supporters outside the loop.

that doesn't mean his role is unclear to those inside the club
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 03, 2017, 08:15:30 AM
What I'm not happy with is the organisational structure. We have a DOF whose role is unclear to everyone. We have Elstone as CEO and who has just been appointed to the Board. How does that work? If Elstone is underperforming he is part of the structure that decides whether or not he is terminated? Where is the accountability?

If Moshiri is responsible for those changes, I don't see our apparent commercial success lasting very long.

What on earth is Elstone to do with this? Never understood why people don't like him, when they don't appear to know what he is responsible for. I'm sure there's thousand of people blaming BK for this somehow
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 03, 2017, 08:57:00 AM
To try and clarify my position as I think some people misinterpreted what was intended. My point with Moshiri, is that I think he's a bit too celebrity football conscious and he's starting to doubt everything he's put in place as well. He doesn't want to spend £100m+ to go from europe to relegation fight and out of all competitions by end of October. But he needs to understand the context, that the cohesion and quality of the players is not going to arrive overnight. It was just that Sigurdsson in particular seems like a folly for someone.

My worry is that rather than settling things down and acting calmly, I get an worrying impression that Moshiri is thinking about appointing someone like Allardyce to keep us up. I wouldn't be surprised if that also signalled him scaling back in his ambitions for the club and general disinterest from fans. People can talk about him keeping teams up, but they weren't clubs with as much pride. At Newcastle he was never taken in by fans and was sacked in 6 months, I would expect less time here and then relegation is real threat.

Problem has not just been about transfers, it's the squad turnover, lack of cohesion, degredation and collapse of the team and no growth of a new one. That was all pretty much Koeman, as the team got worse, it was no longer just the players fault, it became the person who bought the players fault, and we're left with the fallout of a manager saying no one is good enough as he ran it into the ground and took out anger.

Koeman was the turd in the punch bowl for me, I can understand why Walsh shoulders blame for unbalanced transfer policy. But no one who knew him, wanted to play for Koeman, we saw that with incomings and outgoings. Walsh is working with a managers specifications in mind and manager has enough authority to be more central to direction of transfer policy. I just think Koeman is not someone players want to play for. maybe lazy in terms of input to recruitment, unrealistic or indecisive.

If your club is spending that sort of money, you can get what you want as a manager, you can specify requirements and resolve at the time. There was a decent team there, but there is not a player now who played for Koeman, who doesn't have crisis of confidence and form. People are human and it's going to take time to build them back up and undo the curse. Fans love managers who come out and tear into the players, let them know what's expected, waterboarding is too good for them. But when it ends up being the entire squad, you're no longer uniting by division, you're just dividing everyone against everyone else.

It's always much easier to bring players down to earth and than build them up. Subsequently you get a quicker turnaround when you just need some structure, discipline and focus, rather than heart and belief. But the new players need some support, regardless what the manager gives them, it's going to be a gradual process. Players will settle and adapt, and I think once we score a couple and win a game, the blockage will leak and the fear and anxiety subside and then we'll start playing better and see the best of the players we've got.

First summer we didn't attract any real elite players, but they'd only just walked in to new setup. This summer we had more time to prepare to plan, and got players from the levels we were looking at and spent heavily. Lookman looks like he's maturing into a first team player, DCL could probably do with a holiday and someone else to take the abuse for standing isolated without service. We'll see other talent emerge from Walsh's signings in due course. We have enough quality in the squad to expect things to improve, if we get behind team and manager, it will give time for things to settle and build. Now we are out of europe and cup, I expect to see improving performances in PL. We've played as many games now as most clubs play by christmas in normal year without europe.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueMaquis on November 03, 2017, 09:05:13 AM
What on earth is Elstone to do with this? Never understood why people don't like him, when they don't appear to know what he is responsible for. I'm sure there's thousand of people blaming BK for this somehow

My mistake, you're right. Elstone is a saint and BK is a cherub.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 03, 2017, 09:15:54 AM
My mistake, you're right. Elstone is a saint and BK is a cherub.

Of course you have to be at one end of the scale.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Faceatthefence on November 03, 2017, 02:41:03 PM
But you can see why people are unhappy with how the club is at the moment and why people at all levels are being questioned?
Thats because we think were a plush main dealers,but in truth being run like a back street garage.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Macca77 on November 03, 2017, 02:47:25 PM
But you can see why people are unhappy with how the club is at the moment and why people at all levels are being questioned?



Of course, mistakes have been made
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lxxx on November 03, 2017, 02:54:57 PM
I think he's part of the problem but part of the solution.

He came in and installed a new manager without any due diligence other than he's a footballing legend. A vanity appointment.

He then installed a DoF and with the amount of time he'd been in the door we couldn't have done our homework on conducting a search, compiling a shortlist, carrying out an in depth interview process and clearly defining the role. Another vanity appointment, let's take the guy everyone was holding up as the key behind Leicester's fairytale.

Then he told the media that his manager was a legend and he does what he wants before heading off back to London to work on financing a new stadium. Leaving behind a chairman in ill health and a Chief Exec with a questionable record of success so far.

Is it any wonder things were allowed to develop?

The thing is who tells a guy who pays your wages that he might be wrong?
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: dazfrancis on November 03, 2017, 03:09:25 PM
I think he's part of the problem but part of the solution.

He came in and installed a new manager without any due diligence other than he's a footballing legend. A vanity appointment.

He then installed a DoF and with the amount of time he'd been in the door we couldn't have done our homework on conducting a search, compiling a shortlist, carrying out an in depth interview process and clearly defining the role. Another vanity appointment, let's take the guy everyone was holding up as the key behind Leicester's fairytale.

Then he told the media that his manager was a legend and he does what he wants before heading off back to London to work on financing a new stadium. Leaving behind a chairman in ill health and a Chief Exec with a questionable record of success so far.

Is it any wonder things were allowed to develop?

The thing is who tells a guy who pays your wages that he might be wrong?


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/p0mjG9-CA3w/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Mick 1995 on November 03, 2017, 03:10:46 PM
This club doesn't really do relegation.

There are clubs whose owner structure can survive relegation. Hell, there are clubs whose managers can survive relegation.
The last time we were in real relegation scraps (95 & 98) we ousted our board.

The buck stops at the manager for team performance and individual results.
The buck stops at our new DoF when it comes to the performance/value of signings.
But the buck stops at Moshiri for overall trajectory.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 03, 2017, 07:29:34 PM
I bet Moshiri regrets that interview on sky sports news (with Jim White) with an hourish to go on Transfer deadling, where he stated 'we dont need any more signings' 'we dont need a striker'.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Thomas on November 07, 2017, 06:48:14 AM
I don't like the man. The Panorama programme solidified this impression even if the material isn't completely proven. Also listening to Everton Business Matters fawn over him really annoys me, which is a shame as its a good podcast.

The main reason I dislike him apart from him basically using sales to cover spending on players,  is I firmly believe the ground move to the city centre has sod all to do with benefitting the club/fans and more to do with making HIM more money. Walton will suffer, the atmosphere will suffer, fans will suffer and possibly even the team may suffer. However the club will be more profitable for Mr Moshiri.

Jack Walker was no angel, but he died recently and some of our fans are so wide-eyed on Moshiri you almost wonder whether they have been led to believe the club for him is a labour of love. It isn't. It was for Bill Kenwright and he wasn't any good either. Moshiri is a capitalist out for his own pocket and seeking to commercialize our club into 'Brand Everton' and take it away from our origins. Fans are falling for that way too easily in my opinion. If he didn't have money I would see no difference between him and the Hull/Cardiff chairman who had no prior connection/commitment to their clubs either.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: kramer0 on November 07, 2017, 10:58:14 PM
Really starting to worry. Not about the Usmanov stuff but about football.

Don't know what he's playing at with the Costa/Sanchez/Simeone stories. He seems to be utterly clueless about how to improve the club on the pitch.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Escla on November 07, 2017, 11:04:39 PM
I don't like the man. The Panorama programme solidified this impression even if the material isn't completely proven. Also listening to Everton Business Matters fawn over him really annoys me, which is a shame as its a good podcast.

The main reason I dislike him apart from him basically using sales to cover spending on players,  is I firmly believe the ground move to the city centre has sod all to do with benefitting the club/fans and more to do with making HIM more money. Walton will suffer, the atmosphere will suffer, fans will suffer and possibly even the team may suffer. However the club will be more profitable for Mr Moshiri.

Jack Walker was no angel, but he died recently and some of our fans are so wide-eyed on Moshiri you almost wonder whether they have been led to believe the club for him is a labour of love. It isn't. It was for Bill Kenwright and he wasn't any good either. Moshiri is a capitalist out for his own pocket and seeking to commercialize our club into 'Brand Everton' and take it away from our origins. Fans are falling for that way too easily in my opinion. If he didn't have money I would see no difference between him and the Hull/Cardiff chairman who had no prior connection/commitment to their clubs either.

Mate, when I can move along the row of seats in the Upper Gwladys without practically tripping over the seat back in the row in front of me, when I can go for a piss without waiting for 15 minutes at half time, when I can have a wider choice of food than fish and chips and cardboard burgers outside the ground I for one will be a happy man, we don't all live around the corner from GP, new location makes perfect sense.
It would take years of reduced capacity and disruption to re-develop GP, you would practically have to demolish 75% of it and re-build. I don't know what your definition of a fan is but in the case of Moshiri once you have skin in the game you soon become as interested in success for the club as any other fan.

Copy pasted from my response to your previous rant today in the Bromley Moore dock thread

We are one of the cheapest season ticket in the Premiership, there are a number of reasons for that, one being that the ground is not living in the 90's like you, it's a 60's stadium. Don't get emotionally involved with bricks and mortar.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: TheRam on November 07, 2017, 11:12:47 PM
Starting to think he's a bit of a farce.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: bluenuck on November 07, 2017, 11:17:54 PM
Anyone have the quote from Moshiri about Simeone? Or where he said it?
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Escla on November 07, 2017, 11:21:02 PM
Someone tweeted that Moshiri admired Simeone and from there it took on a life of its own.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: brap2 on November 07, 2017, 11:24:01 PM
Really starting to worry. Not about the Usmanov stuff but about football.

Don't know what he's playing at with the Costa/Sanchez/Simeone stories. He seems to be utterly clueless about how to improve the club on the pitch.

Yeah he’s not coming across well.

The idea that a rich man is a crook doesn’t phase me in the slightest, they’re all crooks, but the idea that the head of a company ina certain sector doesn’t know his arse from his elbow in that niche is worrying - unless he’s got the right appointments around him, which of course, he has not.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: bluenuck on November 07, 2017, 11:25:11 PM
Someone tweeted that Moshiri admired Simeone and from there it took on a life of its own.

Seriously?

That's where this whole panic is coming from? Can't be.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: kramer0 on November 07, 2017, 11:25:35 PM
unless heís got the right appointments around him, which of course, he has not.

Yep. We have to wait for him stumble upon a set-up that works, then hope he doesn't fuck it up.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Escla on November 07, 2017, 11:25:57 PM
Nothing else to back it up other than Twitter gossip.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 07, 2017, 11:26:59 PM
Anyone have the quote from Moshiri about Simeone? Or where he said it?

Headline news on Sky Sports
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: bluenuck on November 07, 2017, 11:28:15 PM
Headline news on Sky Sports

No quotes from Moshiri. Just speculation that Simeone is our number 1 target.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: everton1952 on November 07, 2017, 11:28:49 PM
Where is the money Mosh? (Sorry Bill)
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Escla on November 07, 2017, 11:31:01 PM
No quotes from Moshiri. Just speculation that Simeone is our number 1 target.

No quotes whatsoever from anyone other than Sky Sports news "understand" that he is one of four candidates that Everton are interested in and that they have held talks with Allardyce.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 07, 2017, 11:33:49 PM
Believe he's been having private tuition from Gold and Sullivan on how to repeatedly make your club a national laughing stock
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: bluenuck on November 07, 2017, 11:34:17 PM
No quotes whatsoever from anyone other than Sky Sports news "understand" that he is one of four candidates that Everton are interested in and that they have held talks with Allardyce.

lol

Alright then, nothing more to really talk about.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: everton1952 on November 07, 2017, 11:42:24 PM
Why stop? Keep it going. I heard on a reliable twitter/tweet/twit source that our latest attempt to find a manager.... and so forth and so on.
The best I can add is Where is the money Mosh? (Sorry Bill).
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Shropshire Blue on November 07, 2017, 11:43:40 PM
I don't like the man. The Panorama programme solidified this impression even if the material isn't completely proven. Also listening to Everton Business Matters fawn over him really annoys me, which is a shame as its a good podcast.

The main reason I dislike him apart from him basically using sales to cover spending on players,  is I firmly believe the ground move to the city centre has sod all to do with benefitting the club/fans and more to do with making HIM more money. Walton will suffer, the atmosphere will suffer, fans will suffer and possibly even the team may suffer. However the club will be more profitable for Mr Moshiri.

Jack Walker was no angel, but he died recently and some of our fans are so wide-eyed on Moshiri you almost wonder whether they have been led to believe the club for him is a labour of love. It isn't. It was for Bill Kenwright and he wasn't any good either. Moshiri is a capitalist out for his own pocket and seeking to commercialize our club into 'Brand Everton' and take it away from our origins. Fans are falling for that way too easily in my opinion. If he didn't have money I would see no difference between him and the Hull/Cardiff chairman who had no prior connection/commitment to their clubs either.
If he is putting his money into a project why shouldn't he be allowed to make a profit? If he isn't then one has to accept that we are not asking for 'investment' we are looking for charity.
We have to live in the real financial world if the club want to compete. I don't see much cash coming from the fans, not even the idea of putting up prices to the level of the 'top' clubs to help us compete.
The fact is we want to keep our heritage, we want to keep it all close, we want it affordable, we want to win trophies and we want someone else to pay for it. I can live with that if it works but I don't think I'll hold my breath.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Escla on November 07, 2017, 11:44:34 PM
Believe he's been having private tuition from Gold and Sullivan on how to repeatedly make your club a national laughing stock

Why, what's he done ? Serious question.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Gary1878 on November 07, 2017, 11:53:08 PM
If Moshiri makes a profit, that means we have a nice new stadium, are still in the PL and have a better intrinsic/intangible value placed on us. I have no qualms in him making money from us.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: hill135 on November 07, 2017, 11:57:56 PM
Didnít old facelift Jim White say Moshiri personally told him Simeone would be perfect for the job?

Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Escla on November 08, 2017, 12:12:14 AM
No
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 08, 2017, 12:12:54 AM
Why, what's he done ? Serious question.

Cringeworthy Sky Sports phonecalls to Jim White and laughable transfer/manager targets aside yeah?
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Thornton_19 on November 08, 2017, 12:15:58 AM
Cringeworthy Sky Sports phonecalls to Jim White and laughable transfer/manager targets aside yeah?
I know yeah fuck him. Wish we weren't getting a new stadium and spending loads on transfers. Bring back Bill and poverty. Wish we still had Moyes.
I miss Osman.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 08, 2017, 12:19:02 AM
I know yeah fuck him. Wish we weren't getting a new stadium and spending loads on transfers. Bring back Bill and poverty. Wish we still had Moyes.
I miss Osman.

Don't make yourself look daft.

1) I'll believe the stadium when I'm sat in it although I live in hope.
2) We've spent none of his money on transfers. I don't believe we should either but let's not make out he's a sugar daddy.
3) Never mentioned Moyes or Osman
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Escla on November 08, 2017, 12:19:16 AM
Cringeworthy Sky Sports phonecalls to Jim White and laughable transfer/manager targets aside yeah?

We wait twenty years for a sugar daddy investor to come along and when he does we can't wait to spout venom and derision based on fuck all, right , fuck him, Moshiri out, who needs a stable financial base to work from.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 08, 2017, 12:22:34 AM
We wait twenty years for a sugar daddy investor to come along and when he does we can't wait to spout venom and derision based on fuck all, right , fuck him, Moshiri out, who needs a stable financial base to work from.

Are you simple?

Based on fuck all? I've just given examples of where he's made us and himself look like muppets. And he isn't a sugar daddy really is he seeing as how we had 100m incoming over the summer.

I'd have no problem with him at all if he just kept his mouth shut instead of talking shit to Sky Sports like some Z list celebrity does to Heat magazine.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: duncandisorderly on November 08, 2017, 12:23:03 AM
I think we have improved (off the field) since he came, he's certainly not perfect but he seems like he's trying to do the right things with things like the stadium planning, he has invested some money in the team which is more than our previous owner. I'm a bit more concerned about whether he will keep investing at the same levels, given what has happened in the summer with player recruitment and our start to the season, i just hope he is in it for the long haul.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Thornton_19 on November 08, 2017, 12:23:57 AM
Don't make yourself look daft.

1) I'll believe the stadium when I'm sat in it although I live in hope.
2) We've spent none of his money on transfers. I don't believe we should either but let's not make out he's a sugar daddy.
3) Never mentioned Moyes or Osman
More of a Martinez and Alcaraz guy are you?

Me daft? Surely sustainable spending is a good thing? Don't want to end up like Leeds.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 08, 2017, 12:27:10 AM
More of a Martinez and Alcaraz guy are you?

Me daft? Surely sustainable spending is a good thing? Don't want to end up like Leeds.

When have I said we should spend irresponsibly?

My issue is with him seemingly loving talking shit to sports media outlets, NOT investment.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Django on November 08, 2017, 12:42:17 AM
Starting to think he's a bit of a farce.

Heís basically Kermit the Frog with a billion quid in his ass pocket
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: piggypop on November 08, 2017, 01:01:24 AM
When have I said we should spend irresponsibly?

My issue is with him seemingly loving talking shit to sports media outlets, NOT investment.
I'm not particularly keen on how he does it, but after buying a majority shareholding in the club he probably has more right than a fan to call into the Jim White show to voice his thoughts.

If he was on here*, we'd probably all be dead pleased for a couple of days until he said something we didn't agree with. Then he'd be slagged to fuck.

(*Can you imagine if he had the posting style of Realist?)
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 08, 2017, 07:40:30 PM
I'm not particularly keen on how he does it, but after buying a majority shareholding in the club he probably has more right than a fan to call into the Jim White show to voice his thoughts.

If he was on here*, we'd probably all be dead pleased for a couple of days until he said something we didn't agree with. Then he'd be slagged to fuck.

(*Can you imagine if he had the posting style of Realist?)

was the Realist banned cos he was Moshiri??
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 08, 2017, 08:04:52 PM
There is a lot of 'leave Britney alone' in this thread
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lxxx on November 08, 2017, 10:29:52 PM
Why should he put his hand in his pocket and piss away millions of his own money when football is populated with dickheads like Mirallas who trouser £50k/week for taking the piss and idiots like Martinez who get a £10m goodbye as a reward for failure. I don't blame him for not spending, I wouldn't either if I had it sat there in my account.

By all means query his baffling and somewhat naÔve outbursts, his vanity appointments and his general approach which gives the impression he knows fuck all about the game but don't slag him for not doing what none of us would do in his position.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Shropshire Blue on November 08, 2017, 10:40:08 PM
WE'VE spent none of HIS MONEY on transfers.
I know I've taken that a little out of context but it's a beautiful example of how fans of all clubs think and their expectations.☺
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 08, 2017, 11:59:06 PM
I know I've taken that a little out of context but it's a beautiful example of how fans of all clubs think and their expectations.☺

Eh? I'm not suggesting we should spend his money.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: kramer0 on November 09, 2017, 12:36:18 AM
The whole ďhis moneyĒ or ďnot his moneyĒ question is irrelevant.

The real problem is that heís chosen the wrong people to spend whatís in our budget. A good transfer team would have gotten a lot more out of what we spent this summer. Actually, a good transfer team would have gotten more for less than what we spent this summer.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lxxx on November 09, 2017, 12:54:17 AM
The whole “his money” or “not his money” question is irrelevant.

The real problem is that he’s chosen the wrong people to spend what’s in our budget. A good transfer team would have gotten a lot more out of what we spent this summer. Actually, a good transfer team would have gotten more for less than what we spent this summer.

It's relevant to the argument some are putting up on here.

I agree that we could have spent less and more wisely but some are giving him a verbal kicking for not dipping into his own reserves and spending more.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 09, 2017, 01:19:57 AM
A good transfer team would have gotten a lot more out of what we spent this summer. Actually, a good transfer team would have gotten more for less than what we spent this summer.

You don't say
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Martip on November 09, 2017, 01:45:57 AM
was the Realist banned cos he was Moshiri??
Is realist banned ?
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: bluenuck on November 09, 2017, 03:22:41 AM
There is a lot of 'leave Britney alone' in this thread

Just looking for quotes, facts, and sources for how people are forming an opinion, or for the stories they're telling like reply #7.

Don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Still looking for where he got that from.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 09, 2017, 04:38:08 AM
Just looking for quotes, facts, and sources for how people are forming an opinion, or for the stories they're telling like reply #7.

Don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Still looking for where he got that from.

I think it's a better place if most opinions are left open, especially when there is limited info. There are a few people who will disagree like they are judge on a panel show, without either engaging the point itself or providing any evidence that contradicts.

It's all well and good shouting for evidence, provide some. If there is none then it's all opinions anyway, so why are some so adamant in first place.

Wasn't specifically aim at yourself or anyone in particular, just seemed a lot of dramatic offence. Understanding things is the point, it can go into unpopular territory, but sometimes its the truth that's the most unpopular.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: bluenuck on November 09, 2017, 04:43:29 AM
I think it's a better place if most opinions are left open, especially when there is limited info. There are a few people who will disagree like they are judge on a panel show, without either engaging the point itself or providing any evidence that contradicts.

It's all well and good shouting for evidence, provide some. If there is none then it's all opinions anyway, so why are some so adamant in first place.

Wasn't specifically aim at yourself or anyone in particular, just seemed a lot of dramatic offence. Understanding things is the point, it can go into unpopular territory, but sometimes its the truth that's the most unpopular.

fair enough.

But some replies like Reply #7 in this thread do not read like an opinion. It reads as fact. Which is absurd.

People melting down yesterday because there were reports, only reports, about us having a shortlist of 4 coaches with Simeone at the top was hilarious. The 2+2=7 crowd was in full on melt down mode.

Some times when I go on the internet I'm not surprised to know that Donald Trump is President.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Confucius on November 09, 2017, 04:46:31 AM
Is realist banned ?

Obviously you not mate, we know you the same person.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 09, 2017, 04:50:29 AM
"apparently"

Do you mean a different number? otherwise not sure what set of eyes you're reading it with to see that as fact.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: bluenuck on November 09, 2017, 05:12:37 AM
"apparently"

Do you mean a different number? otherwise not sure what set of eyes you're reading it with to see that as fact.

Oh c'mon. You're really gonna go with that?  lol

The reply fully makes it sound as fact that Moshiri wanted to make a statement and blow 30 million. And that it didn't matter what player, "apparently", it was. The player...

How do we know he wanted to make a statement? How do we not know that it wasn't Koeman or Walsh that really wanted Sissoko? Or someone else who wanted him? How do we know anything about this?

Anyways, This is splitting hairs. Opinions are fine. It's when people start coming up with absolute BS from nothing that really makes me cringe. Funny thing is, is that winning will make all this go away.

Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 09, 2017, 06:54:52 PM
Oh c'mon. You're really gonna go with that?  lol

The reply fully makes it sound as fact that Moshiri wanted to make a statement and blow 30 million. And that it didn't matter what player, "apparently", it was. The player...

How do we know he wanted to make a statement? How do we not know that it wasn't Koeman or Walsh that really wanted Sissoko? Or someone else who wanted him? How do we know anything about this?

Anyways, This is splitting hairs. Opinions are fine. It's when people start coming up with absolute BS from nothing that really makes me cringe. Funny thing is, is that winning will make all this go away.

Cos no one wants Sissoko, not even Spurs!!
If he is worth 30m, Niasse is worth 3 times that.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 09, 2017, 07:40:32 PM
Cos no one wants Sissoko, not even Spurs!!
If he is worth 30m, Niasse is worth 3 times that.
Sissoko has been back in the Spurs starting 11 in recent months. He is shit though.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 09, 2017, 07:58:55 PM
Sissoko has been back in the Spurs starting 11 in recent months. He is shit though.
yep i've seen him play... Niasse is so much better,, i think spurs are playing him to put him in the shop window..
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Bluedylan on November 09, 2017, 08:00:37 PM
Cos no one wants Sissoko, not even Spurs!!
If he is worth 30m, Niasse is worth 3 times that.

Done well for them this season and their fans have warmed to him.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Cassius on November 09, 2017, 08:01:37 PM
Sissoko has been back in the Spurs starting 11 in recent months. He is shit though.

In order to derail this thread, I think this season Sissoko is a shining example of what an excellent manager Pochettino is.

We all thought we'd dodged a bullet with him, however he's been starting for Spurs most of the season and playing well. Pochetinno has installed in him discipline, tactical awareness and he knows how to use his energy better. I don't really watch Spurs, but a mate of mine who is a fan told me this.

That's what we need from a new manager - someone who will develop players in a system that works and rewards players for their development. This should be high up on Moshiri's list of criteria for a new manager.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueForYou on November 09, 2017, 08:03:00 PM
He has indeed been playing well - wasn't he captain the other day? (Don't quote me on that!)

Class manager
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: everton1952 on November 09, 2017, 08:20:15 PM
Let's get this thread back on course. Where is the money Mosh?
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lincs Toffee on November 09, 2017, 08:21:26 PM
That's what we need from a new manager - someone who will develop players in a system that works and rewards players for their development. This should be high up on Moshiri's list of criteria for a new manager.
That's far to sensible a request...we have been shoe horning players in wrong positions for that long now its become a trend.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueForYou on November 09, 2017, 08:37:23 PM
Where's the money? Ask (w)ringer Usmanov - we're the dry cleaners and Moshiri's the mangle

Business as usual - that's football

 
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: SANA_DR0 on November 09, 2017, 08:41:53 PM
Where's the money? Ask Usmanov - we're the dry cleaners and Moshiri's the mangle

Business as usual - that's football

cant wait till that finally happens.

USM GOODISON PARK

USM BRAMLEY DOCK

the future is Usminov! the future is bright!
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueForYou on November 09, 2017, 08:45:54 PM
What's that term?

Ringer springs to mind
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: brap2 on November 09, 2017, 10:34:01 PM
Iíd have sissokho in a flash.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Confucius on November 10, 2017, 02:42:01 AM
Nobody wanted to hear me on Sissoko. Good player.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 10, 2017, 02:50:12 AM
Nobody wanted to hear me on Sissoko. Good player.
Funnily enough... It's a world cup year
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Bluedylan on November 10, 2017, 02:56:41 AM
I'm still not a fan myself. Think it says more about Poch to be able to get summat out of pretty much every player that he works with.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Shogun on November 10, 2017, 03:02:16 AM
Sissoko is still shite.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Thornton_19 on November 10, 2017, 03:44:00 AM
The amount he gives the ball away and wastes it in good positions is awful. I would get so frustrated with him at Everton.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 10, 2017, 04:12:44 AM
He's rubbish. Anyone would look good in that team.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2017, 04:56:32 AM
He's proper shite.

Reminder that we were very close to spending 50mil on him and kone.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 12, 2017, 09:36:25 PM
It's a mental thing with Sissoko, he seems the type of player who just won't ever fulfill potential, he was great for France at Euro's. I think everyone thought, he's exceptional in very good France team, and shit for Newcastle. Maybe just needs to be in a better team and surrounded by better players to get most out of him.

He's certainly looked better more recently at Spurs and more hard working, but I'm not sure you'll ever get the fear out of him, or increase his determination by enough to make him a world beater, but he has the tools, if he could deploy them.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lxxx on November 12, 2017, 10:21:37 PM
Just a bang average player who flatters to deceive every now and then because he has the ability to go on a run with the ball for 50 yards, before then ballooning it out of play when he tries to cross it.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: gizzblue on November 12, 2017, 10:56:58 PM
Just a bang average player who flatters to deceive every now and then because he has the ability to go on a run with the ball for 50 yards, before then ballooning it out of play when he tries to cross it.
And that's his best day 😅😅
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Bluedylan on November 19, 2017, 12:50:01 AM
There needs to be a big fuck off annual appraisal, performance review and if necessary it needs reorganising from scratch.

The whole organisation needs professionalising from the top down, so that there are clearly defined roles with specific performance targets, and reducing grey areas and overlapping duties.

If I were Moshiri, I would identify the clubs we want to be like (as Kramer has said) such as Atletico, Sevilla etc and literally do some fact finding and research into their role delineation and ways of operating. I would also clear out the existing setup with Walsh and just reorganise the entire thing so that it's based on structure and professional competence.

There's no harm in acknowledging that we've got it wrong so far, and changing it completely. We can't change what has happened upto now, but we can control where we are in a year's time.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Silas on November 19, 2017, 12:58:07 AM
We've kind of struggled with the structure of the club since Moyes left. The foundations in the academy seem fine but everything up from there seems a little off.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 19, 2017, 01:04:01 AM
Same DoF problems several other clubs have had to be honest. When manager and DoF work together and in tandem, 2 heads are better than 1.

But when both are pulling in different directions and overstepping lines, you end up with conflict and confusion. Koeman's attack on Walsh also probably put Walsh on defensive and when he stayed, it probably endorsed and solidified his views. But this team is not value for money, even if most the players individually are. And if he's pushing behind his signings that he believes will come good, then maybe it does make some sense of some of the issues.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: TheRam on November 19, 2017, 01:06:00 AM
Walsh apparently has a very close relationship with Moshiri so I can see him being here for the long haul unfortunately and that worries me.

I'am seriously worried about the direction we're heading in and dread to think where we could find ourselves in the next few years.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ridge on November 19, 2017, 01:13:31 AM
Fool me once and shame on you, fool me twice and .... you can't get fooled again.

I think Moshiri took Walsh's side over Koeman after much deliberation, as you're still left with players, you're choosing to believe the players are crap or manager is, and you can replace manager now and he'd still be left with players if you sacked DoF. But with problems still there post Koeman, I think Walsh's perspective on his dealing becomes increasingly questionable and so does his position.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 19, 2017, 01:15:03 AM
I think much of the problem is in the defining of the role. I don't think Walsh has ever been a director of football here. I don't think he's been allowed to. Koeman ate up much of his role then and now it seems the board want to make the footballing decision on who's manager now

If Walsh has to sign players from koemans list and can't appoint the manager he wants then he can't be blamed when it doesn't work.

We need to decide if we actually want a director of football or not
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Bluedylan on November 19, 2017, 01:16:55 AM
If it's accurate that Walsh pushed for the Allardyce-Shakespeare dreamteam, that should be grounds for gross misconduct from the off.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 19, 2017, 01:19:25 AM
If it's accurate that Walsh pushed for the Allardyce-Shakespeare dreamteam, that should be grounds for gross misconduct from the off.

But you have to let him live or die by his decisions

Seems almost accepted that the big signings weren't his choice and now the new manager isn't. So he's really not being allowed to do his job. They've appointed him and now they all want to take part of his job for themselves. He seems to be director of football for the youth teams and the cheap signings

We can't judge him until they let him do the role
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: sam of the south on November 19, 2017, 01:32:03 AM
I agree with both points of view.

I believe he hasn't been allowed the proper influence usually afforded to a director of football, HOWEVER, if his choice for our management team was Allardyce and Shakespeare then I'm glad he hasn't had that power to weald.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: kramer0 on November 19, 2017, 01:34:43 AM
Walsh apparently has a very close relationship with Moshiri so I can see him being here for the long haul unfortunately and that worries me.

Where did you hear that?

Not questioning the validity, just curious.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 19, 2017, 01:38:02 AM
I agree with both points of view.

I believe he hasn't been allowed the proper influence usually afforded to a director of football, HOWEVER, if his choice for our management team was Allardyce and Shakespeare then I'm glad he hasn't had that power to weald.

We'd probably not have been looking for a manager had Walsh been allowed to send the money instead of koeman

The club is a bit of a shambles. Used to always be from the business side now that's sorted it's the football side.

We've half arsed the role. Get rid of it or keep it. Don't pay someone to do it then steal all his responsibilities though.

Only thing I blame Walsh for is not insisting they let him do his job. He might be rubbish but he's currently yet to have a go at the role
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: sam of the south on November 19, 2017, 01:42:56 AM
We'd probably not have been looking for a manager had Walsh been allowed to send the money instead of koeman

The club is a bit of a shambles. Used to always be from the business side now that's sorted it's the football side.

We've half arsed the role. Get rid of it or keep it. Don't pay someone to do it then steal all his responsibilities though.

Only thing I blame Walsh for is not insisting they let him do his job. He might be rubbish but he's currently yet to have a go at the role

"Koeman does what he wants" was the Moshiri quote, wasn't it?  ::)

It is the only thing we have to go on, but it does suggest that Koeman most certainly wore the trousers in his partnership with Walsh.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on November 19, 2017, 02:15:30 AM
The hierarchy of the clubs need defining. We've made consistent fuckups year upon year upon year whether it be potential ground moves, i.e. Kings Dock fiasco/Kirkby, investment brought to the club - Fortress Fund, commercial deals - kit bags. It just needs to stop.
You then have the deleberation of sacking a manager, hiring a manager, buying players. The whole structure and mindset at the top needs changing and that can only be done by Moshiri buying out the deadwood already on that board, taking full control of the club and bringing his own people in.

A clear and defining stategy inplace with people onboard with the mind and skillset to oversee this then the rest follows down to the on field activities.

My worry is if changes are not defined at the top then Everton will possibly go through a spate of hiring and firing managers over the next 5-6 years.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 02:34:46 AM
I fear Moshiri is part of the problem.

Makes appointments based on limited knowledge of the game. Makes press announcements which only reinforce that fact and wants to make statements which really arenít necessary.

My gut feeling is he isnít the bloke we hoped we were getting.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: blueski on November 19, 2017, 02:58:27 AM
he's got money and has done a lot of good things. when mansour bought man city mistakes were made - many of them.

its miles and miles from the point where we question moshiri in my opinion. big steps forward in the stadium issue, the financial running of the club and an honest effort to get things right on the pitch at least from a financial backing standpoint. maybe there were a couple of cringeworthy jim white moments but I think you have to put that in perspective and give him time to continue to work. if no progress on the playing staff is made in january, different story but I honestly doubt that happens

Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 19, 2017, 03:01:01 AM
I fear Moshiri is part of the problem.

Makes appointments based on limited knowledge of the game. Makes press announcements which only reinforce that fact and wants to make statements which really arenít necessary.

My gut feeling is he isnít the bloke we hoped we were getting.

I think he's part of the problem. Think he knows very little about football but doesn't realise he knows very little. Too involved with things he shouldn't be involved with.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 03:07:40 AM
I think he's part of the problem. Think he knows very little about football but doesn't realise he knows very little. Too involved with things he shouldn't be involved with.

Problem is how do you tell your boss heís the main reason things have gone tits up.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 19, 2017, 03:18:15 AM
Yeah, even though none of us really have any idea, let's just blame Moshiri for everything. Perhaps we can boo him at our next game and all chip in for a plane. Because if there's anything this club needs right now, it's for the fans to turn on our owner and for our owner to decide to fuck off, leaving us well and truly fucked.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 03:20:43 AM
Yeah, even though none of us really have any idea, let's just blame Moshiri for everything. Perhaps we can boo him at our next game and all chip in for a plane. Because if there's anything this club needs right now, it's for the fans to turn on our owner and for our owner to decide to fuck off, leaving us well and truly fucked.

No-one is turning on him. Itís reasonable to question his impact on the club since his arrival but once you do that it throws up more doubts than answers. Letís be honest about it.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 19, 2017, 03:52:35 AM
Yeah, even though none of us really have any idea, let's just blame Moshiri for everything. Perhaps we can boo him at our next game and all chip in for a plane. Because if there's anything this club needs right now, it's for the fans to turn on our owner and for our owner to decide to fuck off, leaving us well and truly fucked.

I don't think that's what anyone is suggesting. He is giving interviews about players (barkley and McCarthy) he did seem to acknowledge that koeman did as he pleased. The press does always claim he wants to sign this or that big name

Clearly as a business he's improved us. I do worry he's a little too involved with the football side. We have a director of football who hasn't been allowed to sign players or pick the manager (apparently)
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: BlueBeagle on November 19, 2017, 04:38:34 AM
Anyone not questioning what's going on at the top of the club needs to get their head out of the sand
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 19, 2017, 01:45:54 PM
No-one is turning on him. Itís reasonable to question his impact on the club since his arrival but once you do that it throws up more doubts than answers. Letís be honest about it.

For sure. Perhaps I misinterpreted your post saying "how do we tell our boss he's the main reason things have gone tits up". I don't think the fans trying to convey that to Moshiri will help, at all.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 03:45:46 PM
For sure. Perhaps I misinterpreted your post saying "how do we tell our boss he's the main reason things have gone tits up". I don't think the fans trying to convey that to Moshiri will help, at all.

I was referring to people within the club. How do you attempt to have a full debrief of how and why things have gone wrong when the guy chairing the meeting at the head of the table is a large part of the problem with his decision-making, in a subject matter he knows very little about.

This isn't a witch hunt against Moshiri by any means but from the outside looking in it looks like he's following a path many chairman and fans of the game fall into when they get control of a football club for the first time, which is to make hasty decisions on the playing side based on their limited knowledge of the game as a fan.
Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Ell Capitan on November 19, 2017, 05:01:41 PM
I was referring to people within the club. How do you attempt to have a full debrief of how and why things have gone wrong when the guy chairing the meeting at the head of the table is a large part of the problem with his decision-making, in a subject matter he knows very little about.

This isn't a witch hunt against Moshiri by any means but from the outside looking in it looks like he's following a path many chairman and fans of the game fall into when they get control of a football club for the first time, which is to make hasty decisions on the playing side based on their limited knowledge of the game as a fan.


Fair enough. It's the same at any organisation really though, when things go wrong the people at the top are often partly if not wholly responsible. In the absence of oversight, you have to hope that there is enough openness within those individuals to admit mistakes and be willing to find solutions.

It's interesting because although Moshiri is our largest shareholder, he neither sits on the Board, nor is he Chairman or CEO of Everton. They're all ultimately accountable to him but I imagine will be far more involved in the day to day running of the club than him. Likelihood is that some people on the Board will have had much more influence over him than others in terms of key decisions, and so any analysis of what needs to change will quickly become political as people look to deflect blame and protect their position. My guess is that governance is a real issue at EFC, particularly when you consider our rather unusual ownership structure. That's likely the bigger challenge in successfully figuring this all out, and it's far more nuanced than simply pinning all the blame for bad decisions on Moshiri.

Title: Re: Moshiri
Post by: Lxxx on November 19, 2017, 05:16:25 PM
Iíd agree on the governance point, although governance was never really an issue in decision-making up until 18 months ago when the whole structure changed. Ultimately heís the man who installed this new structure though and as you rightly pointed out, the man at the top is always pointed as the fall guy when things go wrong but thatís what happens in a hierarchy. Itís a hierarchy for a reason.