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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: brap2 on December 03, 2017, 04:44:32 AM

Title: DCL
Post by: brap2 on December 03, 2017, 04:44:32 AM
Just wanted to register my gratitude to whoever signed Dominic Calvert-Lewin.

He is not there yet deffo, and he doesnít have enough like raw threat currently, but heís had to step up this year and do a job that I actually donít even think will his main role in the future, and heís done so manfully.

Whoever the opposition, whatever the occasion or competition, heís approached pretty much every game as a competitor and has even been able to showcase a bit of guile and ability amongst the rock em shock em elbows and arses job Koeman, Unsworth and now Sam have asked him to do.

I think heís a good player and weíd have been far worse off without him
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Bob Sacamano on December 03, 2017, 04:47:52 AM
Baller
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Silas on December 03, 2017, 04:56:19 AM
He's a talent who's been expected to do too much too soon this season. He's got the ability to succeed at this level for sure
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: ally2 on December 03, 2017, 05:03:45 AM
Yes absolutely. And again it's worth mentioning that quite a few were starting to write him off when he was only playing as a winger in the early days. Not even as a striker. I wish we could just show some patience in this and all other respects really (manager, owner, scout etc). Although to be fair I wrote off Niasse, and still stand by that so I can't talk really.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: brap2 on December 03, 2017, 05:08:31 AM
Yeah I was quite unimpressed at the beginning but heís shown an awful lot I think. Believes in himself an all I reckon.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 03, 2017, 05:09:34 AM
If he bulks up but keeps his pace he'll be a good player
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: burkey17 on December 03, 2017, 05:09:47 AM
Early days and due to circumstances he has been accelerated to the 1st XI earlier then I think the Club expected. However he has grown into this role and for me taken this opportunity. How many CF's in the Prem lead the line at 20 years of age? Ok he's not the finished article by any means but he's maturing so quickly and only more game time can see him hopefully succeed. The jury might be out on him but that's unfair. He's young and he won't have the effect that he had today every week. If anything I see a 'Young Sharpy' in the making. Let's hope so.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Martip on December 03, 2017, 06:10:27 AM
I think he's been pretty poor truth be told however today he was very good. Keep it up  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Sir Stealth on December 03, 2017, 06:19:56 AM
Love the Dominator me

Proper works his arse off, is good in the air and fast and helps link the play. He has stepped upto the plate for us this season. The boy has become a man

Also he gets unrivalled levels of fanny

Thereís not been many success stories individually this season, but heís been one of them
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Ross on December 03, 2017, 06:52:47 AM
Heís a tough cookie with a bit of skill and pace to him and his finishing should improve with the more chances he gets.

Looks a promising lad.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Jamokachi on December 03, 2017, 07:14:15 AM
Baller
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Jamokachi on December 03, 2017, 07:16:49 AM
I think he's been pretty poor truth be told however today he was very good. Keep it up  :thumbsup:

Honestly, how? What criticism can be fairly levelled against him?
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: bogie on December 03, 2017, 07:35:57 AM
would have liked 2 see his left peg get better by now but still only 20 so still got time

he will fill out in time and that will help a lot with hold up play

like I have said before there is something about him
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: bluenuck on December 03, 2017, 10:21:56 AM
I have said he's pretty much useless and don't see what people see in him.

He's come out today and proven me very wrong.

He proves me right though sometimes but he's only 20 and has been asked to do the impossible and replace Lukaku with basically no experience.

On rooneys 3rd goal against west ham he even had a nice little flick that freed himself up that made joe hart come out and play it.

He's getting better and better with every game and I'm looking like I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Thomas on December 03, 2017, 11:13:22 AM
Love the Dominator me

Proper works his arse off, is good in the air and fast and helps link the play. He has stepped upto the plate for us this season. The boy has become a man

Also he gets unrivalled levels of fanny

Thereís not been many success stories individually this season, but heís been one of them

Unusally considering his style, I like him.

We've always needed an annoying, false 9 type to chip in with the odd goal. Sort of like Otazaki at Leicester.

DCL could be it.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: GLewis on December 03, 2017, 11:58:26 AM
If he bulks up but keeps his pace he'll be a good player

Yeah at the moment his best bits of hold up play are the flicks etc.

He also produces some great bits of control in difficult areas.

Still needs to develop the consistent side of that role where youíre blocking the CBs and providing easy passes to the supporting players.

Remains to be seen if his threat increases, canít always be taught or developed, but certainly with SA the other side of the game should really come on.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: mikey_blue on December 03, 2017, 01:06:26 PM
Big fan of the lad. Doing a job that would normally be reserved for a seasoned veteran, even being somewhat of a talisman for a struggling team. No mean feat for a lad his age.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Bob Sacamano on December 03, 2017, 02:54:17 PM
Kidís got flair and dares to Zlatan. Love him.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Confucius on December 03, 2017, 02:57:42 PM
Has he really broken up with that model?
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 03, 2017, 03:00:44 PM
Has he really broken up with that model?
Reckon so yeah
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: blargins on December 03, 2017, 03:08:12 PM
Needs to improve a lot on his finishing for me. Heís like one in six or seven which for a striker is pretty poor. But thereís something you canít help but like about him and heís had a thankless task this season.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: GLewis on December 03, 2017, 03:13:25 PM
Needs to improve a lot on his finishing for me. Heís like one in six or seven which for a striker is pretty poor. But thereís something you canít help but like about him and heís had a thankless task this season.

Iíd say itís more the number of chances he gets.

Has had missed some decent chances this season but until he starts getting them in most games itís hard to judge the finishing specifically.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Martip on December 03, 2017, 04:24:56 PM
Honestly, how? What criticism can be fairly levelled against him?
Lack of goal scoring threat pretty much throughout the season until recently....all graft and no impact, poor hold up play etc.

I appreciate he is still young and the teal absolute dross etc and has been much better in the last two games so hopefully it's the sign of an upturn.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Escla on December 03, 2017, 04:38:58 PM
Yeah at the moment his best bits of hold up play are the flicks etc.

He also produces some great bits of control in difficult areas.

Still needs to develop the consistent side of that role where youíre blocking the CBs and providing easy passes to the supporting players.

Remains to be seen if his threat increases, canít always be taught or developed, but certainly with SA the other side of the game should really come on.

Is Big Dunc the best striker coach this lad could have?  does Dunc contribute massively to the development of our young attacking players or was his appointment just a fan pleasing emotional appointment ? Just a question, would be interested to hear others opinions.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: MmmBlueRamirez on December 03, 2017, 04:51:22 PM
Context is required when considering DCL's performances.

Hes 20 years old, spearheading the attach of a premier league club with top 6 aspirations.

Not many would get the opportunity. Very few who do will succeed.

I think hes continuing to develop nicely and that's all you can realistically expect.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Lxxx on December 03, 2017, 04:51:39 PM
He would have been made up to play a dozen games this season but I reckon he'll end up with a dozen goals instead. Sometimes opportunity knocks and you've got to take it and loan moves aren't always the best option. Playing with better players at a higher level day in day out works just as well for some players.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 03, 2017, 05:07:45 PM
Not his biggest fan. Works hard, harasses etc. The problem i have is that he just doesn't do enough past that in 90 minutes. He has some very clever moments of hold up play and flicks but there's just not enough of them. He's got the highlights for 30-45 minutes each game rather than the 90 and so far his finishing has been below par too

There's definitely scope for him to improve but I'd like to see him have a year with a top quality championship side. Scoring goals and winning every week hopefully
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: blue1948 on December 03, 2017, 05:14:51 PM
Lack of goal scoring threat pretty much throughout the season until recently....all graft and no impact, poor hold up play etc.

I appreciate he is still young and the teal absolute dross etc and has been much better in the last two games so hopefully it's the sign of an upturn.
I have no idea what you expect from him but in my opinion you are  being grossly unfair to him .Yes he could improve his finishing but if every one he scores is a deflection I don't see how we should complain .
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Martip on December 03, 2017, 05:28:08 PM
I have no idea what you expect from him but in my opinion you are  being grossly unfair to him .Yes he could improve his finishing but if every one he scores is a deflection I don't see how we should complain .
Fair dos I appreciate what you are saying however when I watch him I cannot see him ever being the player we need to spearhead our attack....graft and willingness will only take you so far.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Jamokachi on December 03, 2017, 06:04:27 PM
Fair dos I appreciate what you are saying however when I watch him I cannot see him ever being the player we need to spearhead our attack....graft and willingness will only take you so far.

He has skill and technique in abundance, in fact his whole game is more skill and technique rather than graft and willingness. It's an added bonus he does the latter.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: blargins on December 03, 2017, 06:07:44 PM
Iíd say itís more the number of chances he gets.

Has had missed some decent chances this season but until he starts getting them in most games itís hard to judge the finishing specifically.

This brings up my point about Niasse rather well. This guy has had minimal chances, minimal minutes yet over twice as many goals as DCL. Yet DCL has more skill and a better all round player. Niasse puts it away when it counts.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: BlueForYou on December 03, 2017, 06:17:38 PM
DCL: Anelka MkII - potentially!
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: velimski on December 03, 2017, 06:18:13 PM
Preferred the other thread.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: cantoffee on December 03, 2017, 06:30:11 PM
He seems to have great self-belief which will take him far.

Most assists in the side this year as well.

Lots to work on in getting in the right positions to take chances and in his hold up play but he does have good raw talent.

We'll see where he is by the end of the season but he's still very young so can't place much expectations on him.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: blue1948 on December 03, 2017, 07:37:30 PM
Fair dos I appreciate what you are saying however when I watch him I cannot see him ever being the player we need to spearhead our attack....graft and willingness will only take you so far.
Is that graft ,willingness , back heels and most assists or just a bias and unwillingness to admit you are in deeper that Dom in the model?
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: brap2 on December 03, 2017, 07:50:52 PM
Yeah I think it’s down to lack of chances really.

Now our form has picked up a bit it will be interesting to see if he gets a few more chances per game than previously. Of course, if he doesn’t then that is part of it as well - top strikers give themselves more chances to finish through movement etc. Would love an in depth look at his movement compared to top strikers of his style.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: blueToffee on December 03, 2017, 07:54:35 PM
I donít think heís what we need at this moment in time. Thatís the crux of the issue for me.

Heís a developing player, and with that come some ups and downs as youíd expect. Heís not ready to be leading the line with regularity though. These last two games were his best of the season in addition to the Man City game. Outside of those his form has not been what we need, albeit I appreciate some of the work he has put in.

If our stated ambitions are still true, we need better at this moment in time.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: blue1948 on December 03, 2017, 08:22:32 PM
I donít think heís what we need at this moment in time. Thatís the crux of the issue for me.

Heís a developing player, and with that come some ups and downs as youíd expect. Heís not ready to be leading the line with regularity though. These last two games were his best of the season in addition to the Man City game. Outside of those his form has not been what we need, albeit I appreciate some of the work he has put in.

If our stated ambitions are still true, we need better at this moment in time.

I cannot argue with that logic ,I just thought some of the flak is a bit unjustified .He has posed a bigger threat this season than I expected but we need somone to frighten the opposition a bit more ,saying that he really has improved the last few games .
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: brap2 on December 03, 2017, 08:36:21 PM
I donít think heís what we need at this moment in time. Thatís the crux of the issue for me.

Heís a developing player, and with that come some ups and downs as youíd expect. Heís not ready to be leading the line with regularity though. These last two games were his best of the season in addition to the Man City game. Outside of those his form has not been what we need, albeit I appreciate some of the work he has put in.

If our stated ambitions are still true, we need better at this moment in time.

Absolutely true I think we can all agree on that, but itís not his fault we failed in the summer and we should be able to be appreciative of the good job heís done for such a young man whoís made a big step up.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Bluedylan on December 03, 2017, 09:55:06 PM
The people who brainlessly completely wrote him off and dismissed him...where are they?
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: toffee_scot on December 03, 2017, 10:10:24 PM
He has stepped up this season, of course there have been games where he's been ineffective but remember as well that this time last year, his only real experience of first team football had come from playing for Northampton in League 2 and a handful of games for Sheff Utd in League 1.

He's already scored 6 goals in all competitions in a season where the team in general has struggled collectively to score and we are not even at the half way point, imagine if the likes of James Vaughan and Victor Anichebe could have done something like that before Christmas.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: van der Meyde on December 03, 2017, 10:44:36 PM
The people who brainlessly completely wrote him off and dismissed him...where are they?
They're the ones who've moved on to saying he'll never be a Harry Kane. ;)
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Fynci on December 03, 2017, 11:14:35 PM
So is he the new Harry Kane then or what? ;)
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: gizzblue on December 03, 2017, 11:18:17 PM
So is he the new Harry Kane then or what? ;)
Not sure how many had Harry the Bastard scored by his age ?.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Martip on December 04, 2017, 12:09:10 AM
I donít think heís what we need at this moment in time. Thatís the crux of the issue for me.

Heís a developing player, and with that come some ups and downs as youíd expect. Heís not ready to be leading the line with regularity though. These last two games were his best of the season in addition to the Man City game. Outside of those his form has not been what we need, albeit I appreciate some of the work he has put in.

If our stated ambitions are still true, we need better at this moment in time.
True says
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: howard1334 on December 04, 2017, 02:10:05 AM
Honestly, how? What criticism can be fairly levelled against him?

I am fairly happy with his level of play, but there are definitely some criticisms that could be leveled against him. First, his finishing needs to improve, a lot. He has missed a fairly decent number of clear chances over the last two years. Second, his holdup play is pretty awful. He runs the channels very well and wins a decent number of flick-ons, but he can't play with his back to the defender and receive the ball into his feet. Lukaku, who everyone liked to shit on for his poor holdup, was far better at doing so. And DCL's failure to hold the ball up has been, in my view, one of the reasons we have struggled to keep possession in many matches this season.

These skills can come with time, especially as he finishes growing into his body and gets a bit stronger. I have high hopes. But let's not go crazy. He is no Rashfrod. And if we had a real first 11 striker, he would not be getting anywhere near as much playing time.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 04, 2017, 02:49:25 AM
I'm someone that has been critical of him this season. I'll stand by that. I don't think he's good enough now to be a first team regular for a club with our aspirations, and I'm not convinced he'll improve to the extent that he will be in the future. Will he be good enough for another PL team, or to be a useful squad member for us? Sure, why not. But will he be a top, top striker? I'm really not convinced.

Obviously in today's world where deeply held opinions are made or undone in a game or two, I can see why so many people are suddenly singing his praises. I'm delighted that his flick which (I think, not sure) was actually intended for Davies ended up at Gylfi's feet for the first goal, and I'm thrilled that his shot took a massive deflection and went in for the second. But these incidents haven't done much to dispel my scepticism about how good DCL will be.

Obviously all this is caveated with the usual stuff that I hope I'm proved wrong, I understand he's a youngster who wasn't meant to be getting this much first team action, I understand he'll develop lots in the years ahead etc etc.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Major Clanger on December 04, 2017, 03:03:20 AM
Lukaku, who everyone liked to shit on for his poor holdup was far better at doing so.

Come on, Lukaku was absolutely dreadful with his back to the goal, he'd just stand there and let his defender nip in front of him 10 times out of 10.

Dom is already light years ahead of him in that area.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: GLewis on December 04, 2017, 03:13:40 AM
Come on, Lukaku was absolutely dreadful with his back to the goal, he'd just stand there and let his defender nip in front of him 10 times out of 10.

Dom is already light years ahead of him in that area.

Donít agree with this.

Lukaku is / was miles ahead of him in this respect. It was frustrating that he didnít do it more; or that when it was bad it was far too easy.

But yet to see DCL even try something like this.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on December 04, 2017, 03:30:28 AM
His hold up will improve with streength, he's already improved this year in that way, just needs more of the pies.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: brap2 on December 04, 2017, 03:46:29 AM
Donít agree with this.

Lukaku is / was miles ahead of him in this respect. It was frustrating that he didnít do it more; or that when it was bad it was far too easy.

But yet to see DCL even try something like this.

Yeah itís been more Marcus bent / Andy Johnson style chase the ball into channels and try and get a foot on it and face the defender or turn it inside.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Bluedylan on December 04, 2017, 03:50:06 AM
Still amusing the stick Lukaku gets. Seems to be mainly borne out of bitterness.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Major Clanger on December 04, 2017, 03:57:00 AM
Donít agree with this.

Lukaku is / was miles ahead of him in this respect. It was frustrating that he didnít do it more; or that when it was bad it was far too easy.

But yet to see DCL even try something like this.

I don't know what "this" is, but the fact that he managed to do some good things once or twice a season is neither here nor there really. He never moved towards the ball when it was passed to him, so if his defender was alert enough, the ball wouldn't even reach him. That's rule 1 of hold-up play and Lukaku just couldn't do it, while DCL does it all the time.

And don't get me started on the number of times the ball just bounced five yards away off his foot.

Of course all this was more than compensated for by his finishing ability, which DCL lacks, but let's not start rewriting history.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: GLewis on December 04, 2017, 03:19:44 PM
I don't know what "this" is, but the fact that he managed to do some good things once or twice a season is neither here nor there really. He never moved towards the ball when it was passed to him, so if his defender was alert enough, the ball wouldn't even reach him. That's rule 1 of hold-up play and Lukaku just couldn't do it, while DCL does it all the time.

And don't get me started on the number of times the ball just bounced five yards away off his foot.

Of course all this was more than compensated for by his finishing ability, which DCL lacks, but let's not start rewriting history.

It was frustrating that he was inconsistent with it but letís not make out that he was Beckford-esque.

I wouldnít say that out hold up play has improved at all.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Lxxx on December 04, 2017, 03:52:18 PM
There are some definite weaknesses in his play which I think are more mental than physical and are the kind of things that you're either born with or not. He lacks basic aggression for one, similar to Lukaku. He might not be a mountain of a lad but he's still a decent size to be getting across a defender and making himself a nuisance by throwing in a forearm or backing in. Whether this can be taught by being a little cuter to win a cheap free kick to compensate I don't know but some games you hardly know he's playing for about 20 minute stints. May just be inexpereicne

He's got potential and hopefully with a manager to focus on him and maybe Rooney taking him under his wing he can improve but he'd greatly benefit from a bit of support from January onwards so he can continue to grow out of the team for periods.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Confucius on December 04, 2017, 05:19:42 PM
I don't know what "this" is, but the fact that he managed to do some good things once or twice a season is neither here nor there really. He never moved towards the ball when it was passed to him, so if his defender was alert enough, the ball wouldn't even reach him. That's rule 1 of hold-up play and Lukaku just couldn't do it, while DCL does it all the time.

And don't get me started on the number of times the ball just bounced five yards away off his foot.

Of course all this was more than compensated for by his finishing ability, which DCL lacks, but let's not start rewriting history.

Sorry, didn't mean to like this. Just so awful a post and I thought it was the tool button.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Major Clanger on December 04, 2017, 05:24:37 PM
It was frustrating that he was inconsistent with it but letís not make out that he was Beckford-esque.

I wouldnít say that out hold up play has improved at all.

Well, no, it hasn't overall but that's because we still don't get the second phase anywhere near right, there are no runners behind or easy passes available for the striker. Which is why I wasn't too worried about Lukaku's deficiency in this department.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: howard1334 on December 05, 2017, 02:13:29 AM
Come on, Lukaku was absolutely dreadful with his back to the goal, he'd just stand there and let his defender nip in front of him 10 times out of 10.

Dom is already light years ahead of him in that area.

Nope. Strongly disagree. People are much more lenient with DCL.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Lxxx on December 05, 2017, 02:20:19 AM
Nope. Strongly disagree. People are much more lenient with DCL.

Well seeing as DCL has a fraction of the experience Lukaku had they'd be right to.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Ross on December 05, 2017, 05:44:43 PM


https://twitter.com/ScoutedFtbl/status/937732446061285376?s=17


Impressive stuff for a young lad but does really show what style of football weíve been playing and I suspect thereís plenty more headers for DCL to win.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: SANA_DR0 on December 05, 2017, 06:19:50 PM
always loved DCL, i know i preferred him starting the games rather than players our of position or some old age merc we signed (ie Giroud)

i know ive over played his skills, and didnt say a bad word about him.. he is immense.. i fucking love him.. love his skills, foot work, runs off the ball and his chasing down.. but he has missed some pretty clear cut chances.. that i know a more experienced striker would have buried.. its all part of  his learning curve.

Still i'd rather watch DCL learn and make mistakes with Everton than at some championship club.. 3 youth players if given the time this season will come through very very strongly. Kenny, Holgate and DCL... they will make mistakes.. but they will also make us very proud to be blues.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: kiwiblue65 on December 10, 2017, 03:34:43 AM
I hope all our youngster's come good and start a trend. I think it's great have local an English players dominate the team. I would hate to be like this RS and have no local lads playing in the derby.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: howard1334 on December 10, 2017, 12:51:24 PM
Still amusing the stick Lukaku gets. Seems to be mainly borne out of bitterness.

It is crazy. You would think after how much worse we have played without him people would have realized how good of player we had on our hands.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Goaljira on December 10, 2017, 01:27:32 PM
It is crazy. You would think after how much worse we have played without him people would have realized how good of player we had on our hands.
From an early West Wing episode, its not a case of 'post hoc ergo proptor hoc'.  Just because its happened after doesnt mean its happened because of it.  We've not been rubbish just because we've not had Lukaku.  Itz not like we'd have played him at CB or LB.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: howard1334 on December 10, 2017, 05:25:57 PM
From an early West Wing episode, its not a case of 'post hoc ergo proptor hoc'.  Just because its happened after doesnt mean its happened because of it.  We've not been rubbish just because we've not had Lukaku.  Itz not like we'd have played him at CB or LB.

Nah. It is its own form of fallacious reasoning to scream "correlation is not causation" when the evidence of causation is starring you in the face. Lukaku's absence and our failure to replace him is the biggest factor by far (though, obviously, there are others).
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Goaljira on December 10, 2017, 06:03:30 PM
Nah. It is its own form of fallacious reasoning to scream "correlation is not causation" when the evidence of causation is starring you in the face. Lukaku's absence and our failure to replace him is the biggest factor by far (though, obviously, there are others).

We've not struggled scoring goals.  Lukaku wouldn't have scored the 28 more goals than whichever striker has played in his place so far this season to negate the absolute bag of shit we've been in defence.

You can't look at a single game and think 'Lukaku would have scored that' and it would have reversed the result.  And thats all he would have brought because he wouldnt have been a better target man, he wouldnt have held the ball up and he wouldnt have worked his arse off like Niasse and DCL have done. 

But you can look at games where options instead of our CBs or LBs could have changed the result for the better.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Ross on December 10, 2017, 06:07:47 PM
We finished mid table in 2 of the 4 seasons Lukaku was here. He wouldnít be the difference maker at this moment for us, our problems have been much further back.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 10, 2017, 06:08:14 PM
Nah. It is its own form of fallacious reasoning to scream "correlation is not causation" when the evidence of causation is starring you in the face. Lukaku's absence and our failure to replace him is the biggest factor by far (though, obviously, there are others).

Of course but there is a massive hole in our team because we didn't replace him. Think it's more about how inept that decision was than how good lukaku is
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: blueski on December 11, 2017, 12:55:17 AM
Thought he really did a job today with next to no support whatsoever
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: brap2 on December 11, 2017, 06:21:28 AM
Anyone who can criticise this lad after the season heís giving us here can never talk about evertonians getting behind someone who gives it 100%

Been asked to roll boulders up hills by three different long ball merchants and has done a fucking great job.

Canít wait til weíre on the way up a bit and we can see what he can really do.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: gizzblue on December 11, 2017, 07:11:14 AM
Lad works his fucking plumbs off weekly.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: GLewis on December 11, 2017, 12:33:08 PM
Iím interested to see what Allardyce can do for his decision making in the hold up play.

Needs to learn more when to chest / flick on / win a foul etc.

Could do with filling out a a bit but otherwise has the physical ability to be good at that role.

Particularly as heís quite quick, even if his threat isnít amazing, heíd still be a good option for a team.

As a side point heís seemingly got a good understanding with Rooney.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 11, 2017, 12:55:33 PM
Anyone who can criticise this lad after the season heís giving us here can never talk about evertonians getting behind someone who gives it 100%

Been asked to roll boulders up hills by three different long ball merchants and has done a fucking great job.

Canít wait til weíre on the way up a bit and we can see what he can really do.

He tries hard but doesn't williams or Martina too. I'm not having some should be above criticism and others aren't
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Bob Sacamano on December 11, 2017, 01:55:01 PM
He tries hard but doesn't williams or Martina too. I'm not having some should be above criticism and others aren't

Thereís a difference here as to why one should be cut more slack than the other two. I think you know this but you set out your stall very early with some players and seem to think that your life depends on sticking to your guns.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 11, 2017, 03:15:39 PM
Thereís a difference here as to why one should be cut more slack than the other two. I think you know this but you set out your stall very early with some players and seem to think that your life depends on sticking to your guns.

People have questioned is DCL is good enough. People have stated they hate Williams. Called Allardyce names and accused both (infact most) of not caring

Surely we are allowed to question players abilities. The shite others have taken has been shocking. DCL hasn't had any of that
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Bob Sacamano on December 11, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
People have questioned is DCL is good enough. People have stated they hate Williams. Called Allardyce names and accused both (infact most) of not caring

Surely we are allowed to question players abilities. The shite others have taken has been shocking. DCL hasn't had any of that

No context allowed then, ok. Life is just that simple.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 11, 2017, 03:52:33 PM
No context allowed then, ok. Life is just that simple.

What's the context. DCL has had perfectly good treatment from our fans. Others haven't. That's all I'm saying.

By all means explain the context where it's okay to say you hate Williams and accuse him of not trying but not okay for a vast minority to say that maybe they don't think DCL is good enough. He's been 1 of very few who's escaped unfair and personal criticism. Don't know why people are suggesting otherwise
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: TheRam on December 11, 2017, 03:54:30 PM
What's the context. DCL has had perfectly good treatment from our fans. Others haven't. That's all I'm saying.

By all means explain the context where it's okay to say you hate Williams and accuse him of not trying but not okay for a vast minority to say that maybe they don't think DCL is good enough. He's been 1 of very few who's escaped unfair and personal criticism. Don't know why people are suggesting otherwise

Mate you said he was championship standard
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Mick 1995 on December 11, 2017, 03:57:32 PM
A kid who has just started out his development journey = leeway being given for rough edges
Old pro who has very little/if anything left to learn = open to accusation he won't be good enough to play in our upcoming games

That's the context
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: howard1334 on December 11, 2017, 04:01:17 PM
We've not struggled scoring goals.  Lukaku wouldn't have scored the 28 more goals than whichever striker has played in his place so far this season to negate the absolute bag of shit we've been in defence.

You can't look at a single game and think 'Lukaku would have scored that' and it would have reversed the result.  And thats all he would have brought because he wouldnt have been a better target man, he wouldnt have held the ball up and he wouldnt have worked his arse off like Niasse and DCL have done. 

But you can look at games where options instead of our CBs or LBs could have changed the result for the better.

You really don't know how games, even those we lost 3-0 or 4-0, would have gone if Lukaku would have been playing. He might have nicked a goal in the first 10 minutes, which would have totally changed how the game played out from there. What would have been a 4-0 loss without him could have been a 2-1 win with him. It's a more complicated situation than you are presenting. But i shall leave it at this, b/c it is around here that Gash starts getting angry with me.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 11, 2017, 04:03:35 PM
Mate you said he was championship standard

I don't really rate him. I could be wrong. It's a damn sight nicer than saying I hate him, calling him fathead or accusing him of not caring. He's 1 of very few who's not been accused of not caring. Personally I think it's harsh to accuse any of them of that
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: howard1334 on December 11, 2017, 04:03:37 PM
We finished mid table in 2 of the 4 seasons Lukaku was here. He wouldnít be the difference maker at this moment for us, our problems have been much further back.

The attack and defense are more intertwined than that. Team confidence plays a role as well.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 11, 2017, 04:04:29 PM
A kid who has just started out his development journey = leeway being given for rough edges
Old pro who has very little/if anything left to learn = open to accusation he won't be good enough to play in our upcoming games

That's the context

Are you saying people just said williams wasn't good enough? Sure I'd seen much worse.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Mick 1995 on December 11, 2017, 04:06:51 PM
Are you saying people just said williams wasn't good enough? Sure I'd seen much worse.

So are you saying DCL should be getting unfair abuse because Williams does?
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 11, 2017, 04:13:05 PM
So are you saying DCL should be getting unfair abuse because Williams does?

No don't be daft. I'm saying people shouldn't be making out that DCL hasn't had a fair deal off all our fans. He's 1 of a few who has
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Mick 1995 on December 11, 2017, 04:20:00 PM
i think you're conflating:

Judging somebodies talent and usefulness in any potential match
with
Abuse.

When people say DCL isn't being judged fairly based on the former, you are straw-manning and equating the judgment based on the latter.
Now, don't get me wrong, there are dickheads out there who are giving Williams a dogs life who support Calvert-Lewin. But even that will come from the same place. They think (mistakenly) that it's ok to lamblast a 30odd something year old man, but go a bit easier on a kid.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: brap2 on December 11, 2017, 04:55:44 PM
Deserves YPOTY I reckon but think kenny will get it.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: gizzblue on December 11, 2017, 06:09:53 PM
He tries hard but doesn't williams or Martina too. I'm not having some should be above criticism and others aren't
Two seasoned (alleged)profesionals v a kid in his first prem year ...he deserves well more leeway imho.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 11, 2017, 06:24:15 PM
Two seasoned (alleged)profesionals v a kid in his first prem year ...he deserves well more leeway imho.


Not sure. If williams is finished it's probably no more his fault than if DCL isn't ready.

Doesn't much matter now. They are all much improved
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: ally2 on December 11, 2017, 06:24:20 PM
I'm sure some people were calling Williams a cnut and saying he should never play for us again. We have some simple fans.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: gizzblue on December 11, 2017, 06:39:40 PM
Not sure. If williams is finished it's probably no more his fault than if DCL isn't ready.

Doesn't much matter now. They are all much improved
Not judging by his last three games ....he was just playing shit the last ten games before that.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: TheRam on December 11, 2017, 06:42:03 PM
Not convinced with this Williams Renaissance myself.

Thought he was quite poor yesterday and did concede a pen against West Ham.

He'll have to do a lot more to convince me he should be here.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: gizzblue on December 11, 2017, 06:44:24 PM
Not convinced with this Williams Renaissance myself.

Thought he was quite poor yesterday and did concede a pen against West Ham.

He'll have to do a lot more to convince me he should be here.
He did conceed a pen ...but the mere fact he never did his best tortoise impression and hide in his shirt after and never let his head drop shows promise .😅
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 11, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Not convinced with this Williams Renaissance myself.

Thought he was quite poor yesterday and did concede a pen against West Ham.

He'll have to do a lot more to convince me he should be here.
Think he suits Allardyce. Deep defending, minimal space in behind him so he cant get exposed for pace, bodies on the line...... Probably help Keane too
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Gash on December 11, 2017, 07:15:12 PM
But i shall leave it at this, b/c it is around here that Gash starts getting angry with me.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZQrVQtav6gnzG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: blueski on December 13, 2017, 07:45:10 AM
nice interview of DCL up on four four two


Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Lxxx on December 13, 2017, 11:47:01 AM
Mate you said he was championship standard

To be fair he probably is, at this stage of his career. He's doing a great job for this level of his development and giving his all but he's not at the level we need and not at a level he can really make a difference.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: blue1948 on December 13, 2017, 07:35:46 PM
To be fair he probably is, at this stage of his career. He's doing a great job for this level of his development and giving his all but he's not at the level we need and not at a level he can really make a difference.
You make a good point but what a nice lad he is . He will improve and for sure Big Sam will push him on .Great vid by the way
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: mikey_blue on December 19, 2017, 05:39:16 AM
Another great game for the lad. Since he's broken up with that bird, he's had loads more energy.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: DanDan on December 19, 2017, 06:23:51 AM
I'd be amazed if that Abraham or Solanke are ahead of DCL in the England squad when it's next announced
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: pjk on December 19, 2017, 06:57:20 AM
He's scored 7 in all competitions this season. So his goal stats are improving quite well. You've got to give the lad his due, he works his bollocks off.
Title: DCL
Post by: kramer0 on December 19, 2017, 07:12:14 AM
He consistently gets into good positions. Even if he's an average to below average finisher, he's going to score his fair share of goals.

Bonus points for being willing to chase lost causes all day.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Goughie on December 19, 2017, 07:27:06 AM
Really happy for the lad as his efforts deserve some reward.
Should really have made it 4-1 tho. Thats the area he needs to improve, which hopefully he will with more game time.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: cantoffee on December 19, 2017, 08:41:51 AM
Some great control today, particularly that ball Holgate absolutely walloped down field that he brought down on his chest and into his stride.

Can see he is full of confidence and belief.

We still need a striker but he's got to the point where he is an able deputy and occasional starter.

If he improves his finishing he will be some player.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Outworlder47 on December 19, 2017, 11:30:12 AM
I'd be amazed if that Abraham or Solanke are ahead of DCL in the England squad when it's next announced

None of them should be anywhere near the senior side. Forwards have to be Kane, Sterling, and Vardy for sure. Charlie Austin and Glenn Murray, on overall form this season, deserve a look.

Calvert-Lewin, Lookman, Davies, Kenny, Holgate and Dowell all need to be getting games for England U21s. There's a lot of potential quality in that U21 team, and rushing them to the senior side doesn't really do anybody any good.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: blargins on December 19, 2017, 11:41:00 AM
Donít think DCL or Solanke are anywhere near international standards yet. DCL really needs to improve his finishing for a start.

Has done well in a limited team though.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Bluedylan on December 19, 2017, 01:55:50 PM
Having a terrific season. Massive props to him for doing such an unselfish, demanding job for the team and still bagging a few. Real asset.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Jamokachi on December 19, 2017, 01:58:48 PM
that bit of skill on the touchline last night tho

#baller
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Macca77 on December 19, 2017, 02:05:00 PM
Man of match for me last night
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 19, 2017, 02:17:34 PM
I'd be amazed if that Abraham or Solanke are ahead of DCL in the England squad when it's next announced
Prepare to be amazed
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Trublue on December 19, 2017, 03:41:18 PM
Man of match for me last night
Gueye was for me, but he had another good game. Great to see him scoring from the saved penalty.  It's really nice to see our young players, doing well.  I remember the Under 20's final the commentator saying will any of these lads get first team football? Well Everton had 4 lads playing that day (would of been 5, if Davies had gone)  and Dowell doing well on loan in the championship, all doing well.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Major Clanger on December 19, 2017, 07:42:08 PM
That chest control and turn was great, shame he couldn't crown the move with a finish to match.
Title: Re: DCL
Post by: Audrey Horne on December 19, 2017, 08:02:48 PM
Absolutely love him, the finishing will improve.