Post by: BlueForYou on August 08, 2018, 10:49:42 PM
The Portuguese connection
Post by: Robioto on August 08, 2018, 10:54:16 PM
Post by: D15TIN on August 08, 2018, 11:00:17 PM
Post by: Robioto on August 08, 2018, 11:00:41 PM
https://twitter.com/DominicKing_DM/status/1027221880829341701
Could be a goer...
Post by: D15TIN on August 08, 2018, 11:01:02 PM
Post by: Robioto on August 08, 2018, 11:02:11 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 08, 2018, 11:03:49 PM
Post by: Free Agent on August 08, 2018, 11:07:45 PM
Post by: TheRam on August 08, 2018, 11:09:20 PM
Think he’s exactly what we need in the middle.
Post by: Cozzie on August 08, 2018, 11:09:24 PM
Post by: Robioto on August 08, 2018, 11:12:38 PM
Yeah wasn’t there a statbomb earlier that said he’s was one to avoid?
Yeah, Kramer managed to convince me he wasn't any good... Loan with option to buy would be a good deal though.
Think this is it:
https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/552915414037323776
Post by: Tinga on August 08, 2018, 11:18:59 PM
Post by: Shogun on August 08, 2018, 11:39:43 PM
Post by: Juanito on August 09, 2018, 12:05:46 AM
Post by: kramer0 on August 09, 2018, 01:09:32 AM
This guy does less than Schneiderlin and he's already 25 so he's not going to grow much more.
Post by: TheRam on August 09, 2018, 01:26:08 AM
Yeah, let's not do this.
This guy does less than Schneiderlin and he's already 25 so he's not going to grow much more.
25?
That’s a perfect age to sign a player.
Post by: Tinga on August 09, 2018, 01:27:20 AM
Post by: Shogun on August 09, 2018, 01:27:35 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 09, 2018, 01:30:16 AM
Post by: loroloco on August 09, 2018, 01:31:21 AM
Post by: Toddacelli on August 09, 2018, 01:34:53 AM
this fella is absolutely poison.
Dunno what you're saying here? Is that like 'sick'?
Post by: BlueForYou on August 09, 2018, 01:35:07 AM
Better than Del?
Post by: loroloco on August 09, 2018, 01:36:40 AM
Post by: Macca77 on August 09, 2018, 01:40:50 AM
Post by: kramer0 on August 09, 2018, 01:43:13 AM
25?
That’s a perfect age to sign a player.
Yeah, that's a prime age... for a player who actually does stuff.
I'm skeptical that a player who hasn't shown much of anything in the years leading up to his prime is suddenly going to put it all together.
You seen much of him though Kramer or is this opinion entirely coming from stats?
Stats.
Not much defensive output, not much creative output, not much scoring output. Has a nice passing percentage but the passing model (which accounts for the difficulty of each pass) doesn't rate him so he's probably not trying anything difficult. Looks like he was a decent dribbler at Valencia but who cares given the rest.
The eye test may well be the only thing he has going for him. In which case, it's probably deceptive because he does next to nothing you can measure.
Post by: loroloco on August 09, 2018, 01:43:43 AM
it means he's fucking awful. i'm seriously worried about the type of player we're signing. bigger club's flops.
and by the way, this bloke flopped spectacularly at barca. for those who don't know.
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 09, 2018, 01:45:26 AM
Yeah, that's a prime age... for a player who actually does stuff.Are the stats based on his time at barca
I'm skeptical that a player who hasn't shown much of anything in the years leading up to his prime is suddenly going to put it all together.
Stats.
Not much defensive output, not much creative output, not much scoring output. Has a nice passing percentage but the passing model (which accounts for the difficulty of each pass) doesn't rate him so he's probably not trying anything difficult. Looks like he was a decent dribbler at Valencia but who cares given the rest.
The eye test may well be the only thing he has going for him. In which case, it's probably deceptive because he does next to nothing.
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 09, 2018, 01:46:19 AM
and by the way, this bloke flopped spectacularly at barca. for those who don't know.How many of our current players would shine at Barcelona?
Post by: kramer0 on August 09, 2018, 01:47:26 AM
Are the stats based on his time at barca
Nah, same at Valencia (but with more dribbles!).
See @Robioto (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=292) 's post.
Post by: brap2 on August 09, 2018, 01:47:51 AM
25?
That’s a perfect age to sign a player.
It’s the perfect age to sin a *good* player.
Not all players get better, but every player gets worse.
Post by: BlueForYou on August 09, 2018, 01:50:17 AM
He turns Silva into Gold
Post by: dunkster on August 09, 2018, 02:00:12 AM
Post by: TheRam on August 09, 2018, 02:08:43 AM
It’s the perfect age to sin a *good* player.
Not all players get better, but every player gets worse.
He is a good player though.
Has a skill set that’s missing from our midfield.
You yourself have been crying out for us to sign a player of his type.
I appreciate the room for analytics when it comes to player analysis, but I do think people can get bogged down a bit too much with the stats.
Post by: Simon Paul on August 09, 2018, 02:18:51 AM
Post by: blue slug on August 09, 2018, 02:20:07 AM
Marca readers voted him the worst signing of 2017. The same year Deulofeu had joined Barcelona again
Now that’s pretty damning
Post by: D15TIN on August 09, 2018, 02:22:55 AM
He is a good player though.agree with this, we have no midfielders who can keep possession of the ball.
Has a skill set that’s missing from our midfield.
You yourself have been crying out for us to sign a player of his type.
I appreciate the room for analytics when it comes to player analysis, but I do think people can get bogged down a bit too much with the stats.
Post by: brap2 on August 09, 2018, 02:24:14 AM
He is a good player though.
Has a skill set that’s missing from our midfield.
You yourself have been crying out for us to sign a player of his type.
I appreciate the room for analytics when it comes to player analysis, but I do think people can get bogged down a bit too much with the stats.
I’m not sure he does have that skill set though.
This is literally what player analytics is for, when a player *seems* to have a skill set but really when you look at what he does without cognitive bias of any kind it states clearly that he doesn’t do as much of that as you think he does.
If he joins I’ll get behind him and I’ll watch videos and I’ll hope it works out, I’m just saying, I think this is a mistake.
Post by: ForzaItalia on August 09, 2018, 02:26:05 AM
Marca readers voted him the worst signing of 2017. The same year Deulofeu had joined Barcelona again
Didn’t they also vote Modric as the worst signing when he moved to Madrid?
Post by: Simon Paul on August 09, 2018, 02:30:21 AM
No idea. They hated Bale though didn't they?
Didn't they also vote Modric as the worst signing when he moved to Madrid?
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 09, 2018, 02:34:50 AM
I, for one, don't really care what his stats are like in a team so different than Everton as Barcelona are.
Post by: dekko on August 09, 2018, 02:37:24 AM
Post by: stirlingblue on August 09, 2018, 02:38:21 AM
Loan with a cast-iron option to buy suit everyone?
I, for one, don't really care what his stats are like in a team so different than Everton as Barcelona are.
I do if he can’t even be creative with their movement around him, as it’s a hell of a lot better than ours
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 09, 2018, 02:40:51 AM
I do if he can’t even be creative with their movement around him, as it’s a hell of a lot better than ours
Dunno, maybe our players will be more "his speed".
Maybe he kept going to pass to Suarez, but Suarez was already a dozen yards closer to goal. Sigurdsson won't be.
It's the main reason stats are blouse for a game as variable as football. There are no 2 systems similar enough to translate them through fully.
Post by: ajax_andy on August 09, 2018, 02:53:51 AM
He must have done something right to earn a move to Barca, so you'd hope at the right club he could kick on and do good things.
Post by: GLewis on August 09, 2018, 03:02:49 AM
Brands signed a lot of promising players for PSV who had moved to bigger clubs and failed to make an impact, it seems to be his way of working... Identifying players with ability looking to rebuild their careers after showing early promise.
He must have done something right to earn a move to Barca, so you'd hope at the right club he could kick on and do good things.
A bit like when we signed Pienaar and Arteta.
Post by: ajax_andy on August 09, 2018, 03:55:30 AM
A bit like when we signed Pienaar and Arteta.
Exactly, I started to write how Arteta was a great example as he'd flopped at Barca, then deleted it as couldn't remember for definite if he'd actually been on their books 🤣
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 09, 2018, 04:00:04 AM
Is there any stats/profiles/graphs for Pienaar at Dortmund?
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 09, 2018, 04:09:32 AM
Post by: kramer0 on August 09, 2018, 04:14:03 AM
I doubt there's anything meaningful to look at for either player aside from goals, assists, and maybe some data on shots.
Post by: Juanito on August 09, 2018, 04:22:21 AM
Yeah, let's not do this.
This guy does less than Schneiderlin and he's already 25 so he's not going to grow much more.
Different players IMO. Gomes an ‘8’ Schneiderlin a ‘6’. I have seen Gomes suffer horribly with confidence at Barcelona with players simply much better than him but also remember the player that glided through midfields for Valencia. Let’s face it, all of our players would look out of their depth at Barcelona and if he can re-discover what he showed at the mestalla, we have exactly what we need in the middle of the park and everything Rooney tried to be.
Post by: D_murph0278 on August 09, 2018, 04:25:46 AM
Can't see him or Sigurdsson playing in a 2 man midfield with either Gueye or Scheiderlin. Massive wages at least for an out of form, lightweight playmaker who's shot of confidence and has been for 12 months. Someone mentioned Wanyama before... that's more like it.
Post by: Juanito on August 09, 2018, 04:28:10 AM
Absolutely pointless signing this one.
Can't see him or Sigurdsson playing in a 2 man midfield with either Gueye or Scheiderlin. Massive wages at least for an out of form, lightweight playmaker who's shot of confidence and has been for 12 months. Someone mentioned Wanyama before... that's more like it.
He is a box to box central midfielder, not a number 10
Post by: D_murph0278 on August 09, 2018, 04:32:03 AM
He is a box to box central midfielder, not a number 10
You think? Played with Parejo at Valencia behind the main striker and I've never seen him tackle in my life. He's been available since January and no-ones gone near him.
Post by: Martip on August 09, 2018, 04:32:47 AM
Post by: D_murph0278 on August 09, 2018, 04:35:37 AM
Post by: Jay on August 09, 2018, 05:00:26 AM
Post by: BlueForYou on August 09, 2018, 01:29:08 PM
Post by: bluestevie on August 09, 2018, 03:09:03 PM
Post by: Brownie on August 09, 2018, 03:13:05 PM
Wolves should be the barometer on this one. They've been linked with or signed every decent Portuguese player (bar ronaldo) this season. Swerved Andre Gomes though.
Who is his agent?
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 09, 2018, 03:15:51 PM
Post by: TheRam on August 09, 2018, 03:18:32 PM
Wolves should never be the barometer on any of our targets. Get a grip.
Mad init.
There’s no strategy there. They’re just signing players off an agent.
Good players like but it could easily fall apart there.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 09, 2018, 03:20:04 PM
Mad init.
There’s no strategy there. They’re just signing players off an agent.
Good players like but it could easily fall apart there.
Absolutely. I’ve given my wolves season prediction in the matchday thread.
If wolves target someone we’re trying to buy then I’d suggest someone at EFC needs to do their homework and we’re targeting the wrong player.
Post by: Lxxx on August 09, 2018, 03:23:20 PM
Wolves also signed Traore for £18m - bargain
If you're looking for a sprinter maybe, not a footballer.
Post by: bluestevie on August 09, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
Wolves will either manage to get midtable or completelly QPR it and end up relegated but February. My gut felling is they'll be more QPR than Burnley.
As I said in the other clubs transfer thread, Wolves are playing a dangerous game with the money they are throwing about, they need to click into gear straight away (starting after our game on Saturday) or they will struggle
Post by: Lxxx on August 09, 2018, 03:41:05 PM
As I said in the other clubs transfer thread, Wolves are playing a dangerous game with the money they are throwing about, they need to click into gear straight away (starting after our game on Saturday) or they will struggle
Not really. Think they have more than enough quality in there to survive. They'll also have the bounce that all new teams have early on which carries a lot of promoted clubs through for when the inevitable plateau occurs.
Post by: stirlingblue on August 09, 2018, 03:47:39 PM
As I said in the other clubs transfer thread, Wolves are playing a dangerous game with the money they are throwing about, they need to click into gear straight away (starting after our game on Saturday) or they will struggle
They’re more likely to hit the ground running than we are.
They’re coming off the back of a season of mostly winning, we’re off the back of a season of mostly losing.
The difference can do wonders for confidence, as the Goodison crowd will get on the teams back faster if we concede a goal.
Post by: bluestevie on August 09, 2018, 03:49:57 PM
Not really. Think they have more than enough quality in there to survive. They'll also have the bounce that all new teams have early on which carries a lot of promoted clubs through for when the inevitable plateau occurs.
They'll stay up don't get me wrong, they've a far stronger side than Cardiff and as strong as Fulham but they will have a wobble mid season like they did last year when they were dropping points left right and centre allowing rivals to catch them up, once they snapped out of it they cruised to the title
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 09, 2018, 03:51:46 PM
They’re more likely to hit the ground running than we are.
They’re coming off the back of a season of mostly winning, we’re off the back of a season of mostly losing.
The difference can do wonders for confidence, as the Goodison crowd will get on the teams back faster if we concede a goal.
yeah, good job we're at Molineux
Post by: brap2 on August 09, 2018, 04:29:25 PM
Leicester we need to worry about. More really good recruitment from them. Consistently buying well is better then the up and down high-risk peaks and troughs weve seen elsewhere (that are hopefully over for us).
Post by: TheRam on August 09, 2018, 04:33:02 PM
Wolves top 10 deffo, will come above West Ham.
Leicester we need to worry about. More really good recruitment from them. Consistently buying well is better then the up and down high-risk peaks and troughs weve seen elsewhere (that are hopefully over for us).
Signed two centre halves I’ve never heard of and I know because it’s Leicester they’re going to be the business. Maddison and perriera are two very good signings as well.
Got a manager who regularly gets teams in the top 8 too so they’re my main worry in terms of teams below us.
Post by: brap2 on August 09, 2018, 04:34:23 PM
Signed two centre halves I’ve never heard of and I know because it’s Leicester they’re going to be the business. Maddison and perriera are two very good signings as well.
Got a manager who regularly gets teams in the top 8 too so they’re my main worry in terms of teams below us.
Part of me thinks take a last minute hit on Vardy just to derail them.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 09, 2018, 05:03:23 PM
Data collection was iffy at best during Pienaar and Arteta's early seasons.
I doubt there's anything meaningful to look at for either player aside from goals, assists, and maybe some data on shots.
What about iniesta? Seems like a daft request (given he’s undoubtably 1 of the greatest of all time) but his goals and assists output were always quite poor
Did his graphs look like that of a worldbeater
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 09, 2018, 05:07:55 PM
If you're looking for a sprinter maybe, not a footballer.
Remember him playing against us a couple of years ago (for boro or villa maybe) we couldn’t stop him. He’d just run past 3 or 4 of our players then out of play with it. He’ll be a phenomenal player if he ever develops some sense. It will probably never happen though
Post by: D_murph0278 on August 09, 2018, 05:28:10 PM
Wolves should never be the barometer on any of our targets. Get a grip.
I'm on about a club that actively looks for Portuguese talent. Rio Patricio, joao moutinho, Ruben neves etc. They haven't gone near Andre Gomes.
All 3 of the above signings would be decent for Everton.
Post by: Normm on August 09, 2018, 05:30:36 PM
A permanent move would be better - without any buy-back clause!
Post by: pjk on August 09, 2018, 05:32:44 PM
yeah, good job we're at Molineux
That's tickled me so fucking much it's stupid. lolol
Post by: sam of the south on August 09, 2018, 05:34:49 PM
That's tickled me so fucking much it's stupid. lolol
🤔
Post by: pjk on August 09, 2018, 05:40:55 PM
🤔
Go back a couple of posts to @stirlingblue (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=907) . And read the last sentence of his post. It's daft, but subtle.
Post by: kramer0 on August 09, 2018, 07:12:08 PM
What about iniesta? Seems like a daft request (given he’s undoubtably 1 of the greatest of all time) but his goals and assists output were always quite poor
Did his graphs look like that of a worldbeater
https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/805539204327411712 (https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/805539204327411712)
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 09, 2018, 07:13:07 PM
Post by: Waltzer on August 09, 2018, 07:31:09 PM
https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/805539204327411712 (https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/805539204327411712)
Can read stats lots of different ways, but besides the obvious failings that most would have against Iniesta im not getting that there's much of a player there!
Post by: brap2 on August 09, 2018, 07:33:09 PM
Haha. Imagine comparing any midfielder to Iniesta 😆
Well I mean this guy was bought with an eye to replacing him and a poster above requested it so it’s fair enough in this case.
More than anything it just shows you what an achtype looks like compared to who you’re getting.
As @Mick 1995 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=390) said no stats can translate “fully”, but they can help you make less mistakes.
End of the day tho - im up for it. Someone new and he’s tall and pretty graceful so I’m sure I’ll end up liking him.
Can see people’s point re: stats sanitising football. E.g there’s no performance data from the Ukrainian league so in the dark over Bernard...so I’m even more excited in a way?
Post by: TheRam on August 09, 2018, 07:33:09 PM
Especially the ability to pick the ball up and run at the opposition.
We remember how good we were when Barkley was doing this at his best? This lad offers that and more, in my opinion.
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 09, 2018, 07:35:06 PM
Post by: Macca77 on August 09, 2018, 07:37:42 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 09, 2018, 07:38:21 PM
https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/805539204327411712 (https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/805539204327411712)
No I suspected they weren’t. Just wondered if Barca’s unique style slanted the graphs even for great midfielders.
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 09, 2018, 07:39:14 PM
Well I mean this guy was bought with an eye to replacing him and a poster above requested it so it’s fair enough in this case.
More than anything it just shows you what an achtype looks like compared to who you’re getting.
As @Mick 1995 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=390) said no stats can translate “fully”, but they can help you make less mistakes.
End of the day tho - im up for it. Someone new and he’s tall and pretty graceful so I’m sure I’ll end up liking him.
Can see people’s point re: stats sanitising football. E.g there’s no performance data from the Ukrainian league so in the dark over Bernard...so I’m even more excited in a way?
yeah, i'm deffo not dismissing stats utterly. I think as a base to see what a player does in a system it's sound.
For strikers & keepers i would argue till the wee small hours of the morning that expecteds are the most important thing to look at when considering a player. (form v class)
But midfielders and defenders? nah, there's nothing inherently useful in the stats in the real world.
Post by: brap2 on August 09, 2018, 07:42:35 PM
yeah, i'm deffo not dismissing stats utterly. I think as a base to see what a player does in a system it's sound.
For strikers & keepers i would argue till the wee small hours of the morning that expecteds are the most important thing to look at when considering a player. (form v class)
But midfielders and defenders? nah, there's nothing inherently useful in the stats in the real world.
Strongly disagree when it comes to midfielders.
There are measurable metrics, you can use regression or blended career averages to remove team / tactic / form boosts and dips and see clearly what sort of player they are and what they are capabale of doing.
Post by: blargins on August 09, 2018, 07:46:15 PM
I've watched him and he has everything we're missing in the midfield.
Especially the ability to pick the ball up and run at the opposition.
We remember how good we were when Barkley was doing this at his best? This lad offers that and more, in my opinion.
So @kramer0 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) we need stats comparing Barkley to Gomes.
Post by: TheRam on August 09, 2018, 07:48:20 PM
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 09, 2018, 07:49:13 PM
It's odd, as stats become more prevalent, the sterlisation of personal freedom on the pitch has started making them redundent.
Growing up, they would have been massively useful. Now, the majority of teams (bar the very top ones) play the percentages so much that players are more cogs than anything else.
I say that, with the distinct awareness that the era ushered in by the likes of Oneil & Allardyce in this country (and adopted by academies and their ludicrous preference for athlets first, ballers second) is actually on the wane and we are on the verge of the next big tactical breakthrough.
Post by: brap2 on August 09, 2018, 07:50:54 PM
I know full well @brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) is going to love this guy.
He’s a tall, tanned, handsome CM who likes to dribble. I’ve already been trying to talk myself into him by watching a highlights video.
It was called ‘Improvement’ tho tbf which isn’t a great sign
Post by: kramer0 on August 09, 2018, 07:54:15 PM
So @kramer0 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) we need stats comparing Barkley to Gomes.
The left one is a similar template to Gomes.
https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/877203704142856196 (https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/877203704142856196)
Edit: I should add that it's not necessarily a fair comparison because Barkley played an attacking role at times whereas Gomes has always been deployed deeper in midfield.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 09, 2018, 08:31:31 PM
Well I mean this guy was bought with an eye to replacing him and a poster above requested it so it’s fair enough in this case.
More than anything it just shows you what an achtype looks like compared to who you’re getting.
As @Mick 1995 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=390) said no stats can translate “fully”, but they can help you make less mistakes.
End of the day tho - im up for it. Someone new and he’s tall and pretty graceful so I’m sure I’ll end up liking him.
Can see people’s point re: stats sanitising football. E.g there’s no performance data from the Ukrainian league so in the dark over Bernard...so I’m even more excited in a way?
I was being blasé, it’s a thing I like to do. Like yourself my days are filled with data, so I enjoy them in a footy context, but I prefer to watch them play it. So it may sound like I’m being dismissive of your and Kramer but it’s far from it mate.
Barca have trying to Iniesta for years too mate. Even back in the days of Fabregas etc (who at the time of the move was electric, iirc). They have been graced with one of the best midfielders ever who allowed them to play a certain way. I think it’s unfair to ask someone with a “similar”’skill set to replace someone who in actual fact cannot be replaced, Barca are probably going to have to evolve their style further as I’m pretty sure that guy can’t be replaced by anyone during our lifetime.
Post by: Robioto on August 09, 2018, 08:34:17 PM
More from Dominic King.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 09, 2018, 08:35:44 PM
https://twitter.com/DominicKing_DM/status/1027546694093824000
More from Dominic King.
My completely made up “call” has actually turned into a legit “called it”.
What a day.
Post by: Tinga on August 09, 2018, 08:44:16 PM
Post by: Escla on August 09, 2018, 08:53:46 PM
So apparently this Gomes is injured, he'll fit right in.
Is nothing serious, reckon Silva can get a tune out of this guy.
Post by: brap2 on August 09, 2018, 09:21:15 PM
I was being blasé, it’s a thing I like to do. Like yourself my days are filled with data, so I enjoy them in a footy context, but I prefer to watch them play it. So it may sound like I’m being dismissive of your and Kramer but it’s far from it mate.
Barca have trying to Iniesta for years too mate. Even back in the days of Fabregas etc (who at the time of the move was electric, iirc). They have been graced with one of the best midfielders ever who allowed them to play a certain way. I think it’s unfair to ask someone with a “similar”’skill set to replace someone who in actual fact cannot be replaced, Barca are probably going to have to evolve their style further as I’m pretty sure that guy can’t be replaced by anyone during our lifetime.
All fair.
Riqui Puig is the new successor I believe.
Think they’ll struggle with Busquets as well tbh.
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 09, 2018, 09:23:08 PM
All my built up optimism has just been washed away with memories of windows past.
Post by: van der Meyde on August 09, 2018, 09:41:22 PM
I've just come out in a flop sweat when i saw that we have 97 minutes left to announce 3 deals (and hopefully a surprise 4th in the shape of another CB).*2. Bernard doesn't need to be announced today.
All my built up optimism has just been washed away with memories of windows past.
Post by: Escla on August 09, 2018, 10:42:10 PM
I've just come out in a flop sweat when i saw that we have 97 minutes left to announce 3 deals (and hopefully a surprise 4th in the shape of another CB).
All my built up optimism has just been washed away with memories of windows past.
There’s no deadline for announcements, only signings, they can sign (or might have already signed) and an announcement can be made any time later this evening.
Post by: Cozzie on August 09, 2018, 10:47:17 PM
Don't know an awful lot about Gomes but if Silva thinks he can do a job here then so be it.
Potential of Kurt Zouma as well.
Been a great window hasn't it?
Post by: Polledreng on August 09, 2018, 10:51:52 PM
*2. Bernard doesn't need to be announced today.but he has been :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Post by: Tofifee on August 09, 2018, 11:02:32 PM
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 09, 2018, 11:02:54 PM
So no gomes?
https://twitter.com/FCBarcelona_es/status/1027585209154318336
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 09, 2018, 11:03:43 PM
It's like people have never seen deadline day before
Post by: Cozzie on August 09, 2018, 11:17:14 PM
Should bin Alan Myers off and have you outside finch farm next season 😎
Post by: Morta75 on August 09, 2018, 11:39:26 PM
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 10, 2018, 01:09:59 AM
Looks tidy on the ball and with a good engine. Could well suit our 433. Silva obviously sees something in him that he can use.
Post by: bluenuck on August 10, 2018, 01:30:01 AM
Poor stats, courtesy of Kramer, but it’s low risk with it being a loan.
Looks tidy on the ball and with a good engine. Could well suit our 433. Silva obviously sees something in him that he can use.
Problem with those stats is they don't really show the player as an individual. There's still the bi product of who he plays with and where he plays and what system he plays in. There great stats and they show a lot, and it's a cool circle and all, too. But analytical stats in team sports other than baseball are, again, way to heavily reliant on other factors. It does help give more of a "view" of how good the player is, but there's to much grey area. Gomes may "click" with Richarlison and start making 3 through balls and 10 key passes a game and all of a sudden he's an awesome player by those stats.
This is where Silva and Brands have to identify decent players that will be even better in the system they want to play. Just have to look across the park to see how they've done it with a few players.
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 10, 2018, 02:33:52 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkLmPAcXoAEwH1U.jpg)
Post by: TheRam on August 10, 2018, 02:40:40 AM
Post by: Goaljira on August 10, 2018, 02:41:53 AM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 10, 2018, 02:56:16 AM
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on August 10, 2018, 03:01:34 AM
Post by: Confucius on August 10, 2018, 03:03:32 AM
Post by: sam of the south on August 10, 2018, 03:05:03 AM
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1027641045335650305?s=20
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 10, 2018, 04:12:19 AM
Post by: Goaljira on August 10, 2018, 04:14:58 AM
Is there a clause in this to buy him? Read 2.8m fee and all his wages but no mention of a clause to buy
Ine of the Spanish reports said we do, but didnt name the price. None of the English press has reported one that I've seen.
Post by: Lazarou on August 10, 2018, 04:22:43 AM
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Post by: sam of the south on August 10, 2018, 04:34:31 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">💙 Very happy and thrilled to play in such an historic club. Thank you @everton (https://twitter.com/Everton?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) for the confidence and the welcome. Eager to play on the magical Goodison Park! #GoToffees (https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoToffees?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) #COYB (https://twitter.com/hashtag/COYB?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) https://t.co/kuXJqOdyeM (https://t.co/kuXJqOdyeM)</p>— André Gomes (@aftgomes) August 9, 2018 (https://twitter.com/aftgomes/status/1027663466792931329?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Charming as well as handsome
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 10, 2018, 07:33:01 PM
Post by: TheRam on August 10, 2018, 07:40:58 PM
Post by: Toffee1 on August 10, 2018, 07:45:07 PM
Post by: sam of the south on August 10, 2018, 07:55:54 PM
https://twitter.com/philkecho/status/1027898471771267072
Yeah, I saw that.
Still, we had no option to buy Lukaku either.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on August 10, 2018, 08:26:51 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 10, 2018, 09:45:25 PM
Yeah, I saw that.
Still, we had no option to buy Lukaku either.
Surprised/ I wouldn’t think he was a player they were really intending to keep/ maybe he’s still highly rated there despite his tough start
Post by: blargins on August 10, 2018, 09:50:16 PM
Post by: TheRam on August 10, 2018, 09:50:52 PM
Surprised/ I wouldn’t think he was a player they were really intending to keep/ maybe he’s still highly rated there despite his tough start
I think we all wanted the deal done as soon as possible so didn't want to start negotiating any buy clause
If he has a good season here we'll make it permanent, same with Zouma
Post by: sam of the south on August 10, 2018, 10:01:57 PM
What type of midfielder is he? I see some saying he should replace Schneiderlin but I thought he was more of an attacking midfielder.
A #8 ball carrier really, a bit like what we’ve been asking Gana to be
Post by: TheRam on August 10, 2018, 10:26:11 PM
I want to say he’s a Barkley/arteta hybrid but I don’t think he quite has the quality on the ball that arteta had.
Still he’s in that type of mould.
Post by: brap2 on August 11, 2018, 04:51:06 AM
I’d say he’s a more refined Ross Barkley.Honestly no idea where you get this confidence in him from, but fair play you are banging that drum hard brother.
I want to say he’s a Barkley/arteta hybrid but I don’t think he quite has the quality on the ball that arteta had.
Still he’s in that type of mould.
If he turns out anything like a Mikel Arteta/Ross Barkley hybrid he’ll probably be my favourite ever player.
Post by: Chris-EFC on August 11, 2018, 04:54:15 AM
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 11, 2018, 05:15:45 AM
All fair.
Riqui Puig is the new successor I believe.
Think they’ll struggle with Busquets as well tbh.
Just re-read my post. Oh boy. I’m glad you got the gist of it as it’s blitzed rambling at best. I’ve missed out at least 3 or 4 words in there too.
Post by: wilbur on August 11, 2018, 05:20:18 AM
Dom King has now talked about Andre Gomes, looks like were in for him, he says unclear whether for loan or permanent transfer
Post by: blue1948 on August 11, 2018, 11:41:24 AM
Post by: Jamokachi on August 12, 2018, 04:14:14 PM
https://twitter.com/aftgomes/status/1028367763486724098
Post by: toffee_scot on August 13, 2018, 01:17:50 AM
Looking forward to seeing him play once he gets over his current injury.
Post by: Lincs Toffee on August 13, 2018, 07:21:55 PM
Post by: Cereal Killer on August 13, 2018, 07:24:19 PM
Does anyone know what his injury is and how long he's going to be before fit for selection, apologies if its already been said .
Hamstring
Think he said 3 weeks to someone on twitter/Instagram
Post by: Goaljira on August 13, 2018, 07:28:44 PM
I’d say he’s a more refined Ross Barkley.
I want to say he’s a Barkley/arteta hybrid but I don’t think he quite has the quality on the ball that arteta had.
Still he’s in that type of mould.
That's about how I'd have described him. Defence gives him the ball, he carries it 40 yards then has the ability to play a simple ball to someone else, but he can also shoot or has some finesse to play the difficult ball. What he won't do is chase about opposition midfielders like Arteta could do. So Arteta with longer legs but slightly less tenacity and guile? He's definitely more a Sigurdsson replacement than Schneiderlin.
Post by: Goaljira on August 13, 2018, 07:29:03 PM
Post by: Outworlder47 on August 13, 2018, 10:20:43 PM
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 14, 2018, 02:01:26 AM
Post by: dekko on August 14, 2018, 02:06:14 AM
Post by: Jamokachi on August 24, 2018, 04:46:34 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on August 24, 2018, 04:47:01 AM
Post by: Macca77 on August 24, 2018, 04:58:44 AM
Post by: Jamokachi on August 24, 2018, 06:51:53 AM
Just hope he plays as good as he looks
Some player!
Post by: Cassius on August 24, 2018, 08:44:35 AM
Dunno 'bout anyone else, but I'm man-crushing pretty hard here. Ooft.
He's magnificent, isn't he?
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on August 24, 2018, 01:33:05 PM
Post by: Cozzie on August 24, 2018, 03:01:39 PM
Post by: Escla on August 24, 2018, 03:03:16 PM
I’m 40 years old, married with kids and have never once questioned my sexuality - then Andre Gomes walks into my life and all of a sudden I’m so confused!
He’s certainly an upgrade on Phil Neville in that department.
Post by: Macca77 on August 24, 2018, 03:48:56 PM
Post by: blue slug on August 24, 2018, 03:49:29 PM
He’s certainly an upgrade on Phil Neville in that department.
Quisimodo would be an upgrade on phil
Post by: Hawkandro on August 24, 2018, 04:31:41 PM
He's the absolute double of me
Are you my long lost twin brother?
Post by: Macca77 on August 30, 2018, 01:37:18 AM
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 30, 2018, 01:39:38 AM
Rumoured he's had a setback and will be out for at least another month
I just posted it in the match thread, its not a rumour.
Post by: blue slug on August 30, 2018, 01:39:47 AM
Post by: Macca77 on August 30, 2018, 01:44:35 AM
When is Mina available
After the international break so the West Ham game
Post by: blue slug on August 30, 2018, 01:46:01 AM
Post by: mikey_blue on October 22, 2018, 12:51:16 AM
What's everyones thoughts on him?
Beautiful man.
Post by: Mac934 on October 22, 2018, 12:58:14 AM
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2018, 12:58:40 AM
That was one of the issues for us today and he had the opportunity to take a more risky chance or two but opted for the simpler option. Hopefully as he gets up to speed he'll try a Gareth Barry style through ball or two from that position.
Post by: Polledreng on October 22, 2018, 12:58:44 AM
Thought he had a really solid debut. It'll do him wonders that.won't comment on the look but he looked so calm today. Can see him being a big upgrade
What's everyones thoughts on him?
Beautiful man.
Post by: Bluedylan on October 22, 2018, 01:01:19 AM
Post by: bluenuck on October 22, 2018, 01:03:25 AM
Not good not bad kinda thing.
Obviously he isn’t fully ready yet so I expect more in the coming weeks.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 22, 2018, 01:10:25 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 22, 2018, 01:27:46 AM
Also thought Gana was great today
Post by: Simon Paul on October 22, 2018, 01:29:46 AM
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2018, 01:31:20 AM
Played the pass of the game into Walcott and in general looked a very good player.
Not your typical continental midfielder. Seems to have a little bit more to him.
Post by: blueToffee on October 22, 2018, 01:37:49 AM
absolutely gutted he's only on loan
He hasn't really done it at Barca has he? Not that he'd be the first to struggle with that sort of move. I know Barca fans were pretty down on him. I'd hope there would be a decent chance if it works out for all parties we can bring him in.
Post by: Macca77 on October 22, 2018, 01:41:29 AM
absolutely gutted he's only on loan
60 million buy out clause apparently
He's ours in the summer
Post by: stirlingblue on October 22, 2018, 01:42:01 AM
Post by: stirlingblue on October 22, 2018, 01:43:21 AM
60 million buy out clause apparently
He's ours in the summer
They bought him for 35 and he’s been a flop, why would he now be worth 60?
Post by: Macca77 on October 22, 2018, 01:44:21 AM
They bought him for 35 and he’s been a flop, why would he now be worth 60?
It's what Spanish club's do
Post by: Paddockoldie on October 22, 2018, 01:45:04 AM
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2018, 01:45:10 AM
They bought him for 35 and he’s been a flop, why would he now be worth 60?
Every player in Spain has a buyout clause by law and they’re all massive fees.
It means nothing really.
Post by: Waltzer on October 22, 2018, 01:56:39 AM
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Post by: MmmblueBernard on October 22, 2018, 02:01:21 AM
Touches - 76
Successful passes - 56
Successful forward passes - 22
Successful attacking third passes - 17
Successful long balls - 4
Pass accuracy - 90%
Recoveries - 9
Interceptions - 2
Post by: MmmblueBernard on October 22, 2018, 02:01:48 AM
Post by: Goaljira on October 22, 2018, 02:07:22 AM
On the ball he was composed and confident, and off it he worked hard too. Most importantly, he stopped about 3/4 of their breaks on halfway without even fouling, which you know if it had been McCarthy, Davies or Schneiderlin would have been nailed on fouls and yellow cards.
Post by: Silas on October 22, 2018, 02:16:16 AM
Post by: Bluenose 91 on October 22, 2018, 02:19:33 AM
Think as he plays more his passing will get more adventurous.
Showed glimpses of it today but kept it simple a lot which was fine.
Post by: Brownie on October 22, 2018, 02:20:38 AM
Post by: penguinofdoom1878 on October 22, 2018, 02:27:34 AM
Missed the first hour as I was watching the Cardiff Blues. He was good then yeah?
Cardiff Blues, my goodness I feel your pain and I support the Ospreys...that was a kit clash today as well!
As for Gomes, I think he'll be great the more minutes he gets under his belt...starting to look like an exciting side with a good bench
Post by: Cassius on October 22, 2018, 02:30:55 AM
Post by: Brownie on October 22, 2018, 02:31:01 AM
Cardiff Blues, my goodness I feel your pain and I support the Ospreys...that was a kit clash today as well!
As for Gomes, I think he'll be great the more minutes he gets under his belt...starting to look like an exciting side with a good bench
How that was allowed to happen today was shambolic - doesn't even happen at U-8 level.
Excited about Gomes. I've got the game recorded so may watch it in its entirety
Post by: Gary1878 on October 22, 2018, 02:38:07 AM
Very promising for a debut indeed.
Post by: Lxxx on October 22, 2018, 02:44:49 AM
absolutely gutted he's only on loan
It’s only one game.
Post by: Nicco on October 22, 2018, 02:56:17 AM
It's only one game.No, I think he is here for the whole season.
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Post by: dekko on October 22, 2018, 03:03:34 AM
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 03:10:31 AM
He’s a presence, isn’t he.
Played the pass of the game into Walcott and in general looked a very good player.
Not your typical continental midfielder. Seems to have a little bit more to him.
Was it him who played Walcott in for the 1v1? If so very encouraging.
Post by: Duncs_a_legend on October 22, 2018, 03:12:51 AM
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2018, 03:14:41 AM
So we have an option to buy?
No. But we can still buy him.
Post by: Lxxx on October 22, 2018, 03:22:58 AM
Looked calm and classy in possession. The opinions from fans reminds me a little of when Schneiderlin started his first game for us. I think this fella seems like he's a level or 2 above Morgs.
His willingness to pick up the ball and be able to glide forward 20 yards pretty effortlessly puts him comfortably a level ahead of what Schneiderlin has ever been able to do.
Post by: Ross on October 22, 2018, 03:26:51 AM
Post by: gizzblue on October 22, 2018, 03:30:09 AM
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 03:57:17 AM
Post by: Escla on October 22, 2018, 04:22:00 AM
Didn’t really impress much but then it’s only his first game after a lay off.
Thought he was a class act until he understandably tired before going off.
Post by: Silas on October 22, 2018, 04:30:17 AM
Didn’t really impress much but then it’s only his first game after a lay off.
Standard
Post by: Thornton_19 on October 22, 2018, 04:47:25 AM
Was it him who played Walcott in for the 1v1? If so very encouraging.That was Sigurddson.
Post by: MmmblueBernard on October 22, 2018, 04:53:42 AM
Post by: sam of the south on October 22, 2018, 04:58:22 AM
Post by: Jamokachi on October 22, 2018, 05:02:50 AM
I reckon the lack of option to buy was because the loan was so rushed, and complicated by the Mina situation as well as his own injury.
Defo the rush. Barca spent most of the summer trying to sell him, so it's not as though they're adverse to a sale. We probably just didn't have chance to negotiate the clause. I'd be amazed if it hadn't been discussed verbally by all parties involved.
Post by: Thornton_19 on October 22, 2018, 06:12:49 AM
Defo the rush. Barca spent most of the summer trying to sell him, so it's not as though they're adverse to a sale. We probably just didn't have chance to negotiate the clause. I'd be amazed if it hadn't been discussed verbally by all parties involved.Didnt we want him earlier but they wanted €45 mil so we went back late offering a loan.
"Listen lads, we've bought Mina and Digne here, just throw him in as well"
Post by: Heisenberg on October 22, 2018, 06:31:06 AM
Post by: Confucius on October 22, 2018, 01:51:12 PM
It’s his first game and he’ll will get better but hardly set the world alight against a very average Palace team
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 01:51:47 PM
That was Sigurddson.
Crikey was he playing
Post by: Macca77 on October 22, 2018, 02:05:27 PM
Post by: eugene on October 22, 2018, 02:30:18 PM
Post by: MmmblueBernard on October 22, 2018, 03:20:20 PM
Found out why the busies where packing today, they got a tip-off that a sniper was at Goodison and they where right cos Gomes deffo got taken out pmsl
What does this even mean?
Post by: eugene on October 22, 2018, 03:23:19 PM
What does this even mean?Didn’t you see him go down?
Post by: Escla on October 22, 2018, 03:34:29 PM
Didn’t you see him go down?
Who, Gomes ? No
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2018, 03:47:26 PM
Think that was when the tank emptied.
Post by: Simon Paul on October 22, 2018, 03:55:20 PM
Went on his arse late on didn't he?Just ran himself over. Defo tiredness that and it was pretty obvious to everyone that he had given everything at that point
Think that was when the tank emptied.
Post by: Escla on October 22, 2018, 03:55:32 PM
Went on his arse late on didn’t he?
Think that was when the tank emptied.
Ah yes, looked like he tripped over his own foot, was definitely running on empty by then.
Post by: Escla on October 22, 2018, 03:56:38 PM
Post by: gizzblue on October 22, 2018, 04:04:18 PM
Tackled by a ghost. ..he was spent by then fair play to him .
Post by: Lxxx on October 22, 2018, 04:05:36 PM
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 04:24:28 PM
How much he will do we’ll have to wait and see.
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 22, 2018, 04:34:01 PM
He is deffo the kind of player who LOOKS very good.I'd take that performance every week tbh
How much he will do we'll have to wait and see.
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 04:43:31 PM
I'd take that performance every week tbh
Not saying he played badly, but if that was what you got from him every week then he’d get hounded out the club by the end of the year for being Schneiderlin in disguise.
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2018, 04:57:12 PM
Played a good through ball for a start and had a bit of a run about.
Post by: Shogun on October 22, 2018, 05:06:22 PM
The through ball to Walcott on our left hand side and the ball inbetween the lines to Sigurdsson edit: Schneiderlin even (who played it through to Walcott who missed his chance).
Can’t tell you that last time Sigurdsson played passes like that.
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 05:08:52 PM
I personally thought he was tidy and leggy but safety first.
He also plays much more advanced than Schneiderlin so you should expect some differences like. He should be compared to Davies more than anyone, and Davies does make those passes.
Post by: Bally on October 22, 2018, 05:12:22 PM
Went on his arse late on didn't he?Yeah he was trying to play a through ball and just over ran himself, but was excellent otherwise, was expecting the gmae to pass him by a little but his presence gave Gana free reign, Gana benefitted greatly and Gomes' passing range with both feet impressed me a lot.
Think that was when the tank emptied.
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Post by: Jimmywhack on October 22, 2018, 05:36:50 PM
I assume you mean Schneiderlin^He's a massive step up from Davies
I personally thought he was tidy and leggy but safety first.
He also plays much more advanced than Schneiderlin so you should expect some differences like. He should be compared to Davies more than anyone, and Davies does make those passes.
Post by: Gary1878 on October 22, 2018, 05:42:18 PM
I assume you mean Schneiderlin^
I personally thought he was tidy and leggy but safety first.
He also plays much more advanced than Schneiderlin so you should expect some differences like. He should be compared to Davies more than anyone, and Davies does make those passes.
I think the more advanced role of Gomes will help us as a team press higher up the pitch.
However, over the next few months, he needs to shift his feet that tad quicker when he is on the ball. In La Liga he would be a gem of a player, as you have more time, but in the PL, some adaptations need to happen to make this position his own.
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 06:31:15 PM
He's a massive step up from Davies
Is he?
We’re getting well ahead of ourselves imo.
Good pass % but he was quite safe in a game where we had all of the ball.
No key passes, no assists or chances created, no shots on target.
Actually yeah I think it was representative of what we’ll get from him. In his absolute best ever year in la liga, he was still an average player with good dribbling.
Just so we adjust our expectations a little bit like. Can deffo see why silva likes him but he hasn’t blown my socks off in the way some of yous are talking.
Post by: Shogun on October 22, 2018, 06:33:42 PM
It’s okay to be wrong.
GLewis is the best poster going but said Kane was a one season wonder.
Happens to us all.
Post by: Cozzie on October 22, 2018, 06:45:06 PM
Thought he did ok considering how long he has been out for.
Post by: eugene on October 22, 2018, 06:45:30 PM
Found out why the busies where packing today, they got a tip-off that a sniper was at Goodison and they where right cos Gomes deffo got taken out pmslSo THATS cleared up then, and that’s the last time I try humour
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 06:54:06 PM
Feel like you’ve made your mind up tbh brap
It’s okay to be wrong.
GLewis is the best poster going but said Kane was a one season wonder.
Happens to us all.
Whoscored rated him at 6.4, Tom Davies average this year is 6.6
No worries, will accept apologies in DM’s or publically.
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2018, 07:00:24 PM
Whoscored rated him at 6.4, Tom Davies average this year is 6.6
No worries, will accept apologies in DM’s or publically.
Ohh well if Whoscored bloody said so.
Post by: Ross on October 22, 2018, 07:01:41 PM
Thought he was a little ponderous on the ball. Palace didn’t press so he had time on the ball but he took too much of it and allowed them to get their bus parked. It’s why bernard and Richardson hardly got a sniff.
It’s his first game and he’ll will get better but hardly set the world alight against a very average Palace team
Exactly like the rest of the team really. The gushing praise seems a bit premeditated.
Post by: Simon Paul on October 22, 2018, 07:02:07 PM
Exactly like the rest of the team really. The gushing praise seems a bit premeditated.
he is incredibly handsome though
Post by: Ross on October 22, 2018, 07:05:03 PM
he is incredibly handsome though
Peter Beardsley looked like he was born in the ugly tree and hit his face on every branch on the way out but he couldn’t half play.
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 22, 2018, 07:05:59 PM
Is he?Yeah, he really really is
We're getting well ahead of ourselves imo.
Good pass % but he was quite safe in a game where we had all of the ball.
No key passes, no assists or chances created, no shots on target.
Actually yeah I think it was representative of what we'll get from him. In his absolute best ever year in la liga, he was still an average player with good dribbling.
Just so we adjust our expectations a little bit like. Can deffo see why silva likes him but he hasn't blown my socks off in the way some of yous are talking.
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 07:06:21 PM
Ohh well if Whoscored bloody said so.
I’m not even saying he played badly btw, just think he was OK against a non existent palace midfield & we shouldn’t declare the midfield issue resolved yet.
Give yous all a few weeks to get over the fact that he is good looking and previously sat on Barcelona’s bench if you like and we can revisit over crimbo.
Post by: Bluedylan on October 22, 2018, 07:08:35 PM
Post by: cantoffee on October 22, 2018, 07:09:22 PM
Thought he was a bit ponderous at times and didnt move the ball forward quickly enough. That's one of the things Davies does well and why he and Gana work together. Davies has mixed success with that but he forces the issue and Gomes will need to do that from time to time against teams like Palace.
Hopefully more to come as he settles in and gets up to speed.
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Post by: Bluedylan on October 22, 2018, 07:09:30 PM
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2018, 07:09:40 PM
I’m not even saying he played badly btw, just think he was OK against a non existent palace midfield & we shouldn’t declare the midfield issue resolved yet.
Give yous all a few weeks to get over the fact that he is good looking and previously sat on Barcelona’s bench if you like and we can revisit over crimbo.
I think most people agree with you though. A
Good debut, showed some good signs, but will need to be a bit better once he's fully up to speed though
Post by: Mick 1995 on October 22, 2018, 07:35:02 PM
I've mentioned before that i think current stats are a really poor benchmark for certain positions. I think Gomes is a perfect example of that.
Key passes definitely aren't the be all and end all for certain midfielders.
He showed for the ball all game (more than Schneiderlin does) he would look to turn and carry the ball forward (more than McCarthy does) and tried to switch play (i.e. cross-field passes) to up-tempo, create space and put us on the front-foot (more than Davies does).
Do i think Davies will be a better player? Yes
Do i think Davies is currently a better player? On this showing, probably not.
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 07:37:03 PM
He had a decent debut, all the better for how little he has played for so long.
I've mentioned before that i think current stats are a really poor benchmark for certain positions. I think Gomes is a perfect example of that.
Key passes definitely aren't the be all and end all for certain midfielders.
He showed for the ball all game (more than Schneiderlin does) he would look to turn and carry the ball forward (more than McCarthy does) and tried to switch play (i.e. cross-field passes) to up-tempo, create space and put us on the front-foot (more than Davies does).
Do i think Davies will be a better player? Yes
Do i think Davies is currently a better player? On this showing, probably not.
Regardless of stats - against a non existent midfield did he manage to actually do anything?
Game changed when we brought on our best 1v1 player.
Post by: Mick 1995 on October 22, 2018, 07:48:12 PM
Regardless of stats - against a non existent midfield did he manage to actually do anything?
Game changed when we brought on our best 1v1 player.
Yes, he did lots. That's sort of my point.
He showed for the ball.
He turned with the ball as soon as he received it.
He looked to make a forward pass and, where there wasn't one, seemed really adept at cross-field play-switching.
He dropped a couple of really good cross-field balls that instantly put us on an attacking foot.
I buy your point that Palace's midfield allowed him space. But i think that is also countered by the fact he will also be well off the pace.
I think you and a few others on here maybe aren't asking the right question.
The question isn't "Is he the answer to that really important midfield question we have?"
the question is "Is the our best option currently for the midfield question we have?".
If yesterday wasn't just about adrenaline and that is genuinely his style of play, then i want Davies to absorb that "culture" and add his own rambunctious edge to it.
The job is to funnel people into the destructive force of Gana, show for the ball, bring it 5/10/15 yards and then get the ball to an assist maker in an area they can do some damage.
90% of his game time should be that. Due to that, most of his stats will look shite, because a lot of them lay-offs are not considered "key".
Post by: Dr. Sponge on October 22, 2018, 07:49:10 PM
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Post by: Bluedylan on October 22, 2018, 07:50:47 PM
Regardless of stats - against a non existent midfield did he manage to actually do anything?
Game changed when we brought on our best 1v1 player.
Whoscored rated their midfielders as 7.1, 6.6, 6.4 and 6.0, so I'm not sure it was non existent. Also they flooded midfield with Townsend and Zaha sometimes making it 6 in midfield.
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 07:59:31 PM
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2018, 08:00:08 PM
Ridiculous to say their midfield was non existent.
Post by: brap2 on October 22, 2018, 08:02:00 PM
Got three good midfielders have Palace
Ridiculous to say their midfield was non existent.
They wanted absolutely nothing to do with the ball at all. Sit back and lash it to zaha asap.
Post by: Hesmenos on October 22, 2018, 10:26:39 PM
I'm definitely willing to give him the time to show what he can do when match fit and acclimatised to the Premier League but it will take time.
Post by: Mick 1995 on October 22, 2018, 10:30:20 PM
He was caught in possession yesterday, which if it had happened to Davies would have had the fans moaning at him.
Whilst i am happy to bang the Gomes drum (albeit with the caveats you and @brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) have raised), i cannot agree enough with this statement.
There would have been very loud groans if Davies had have played the exact same game.
Post by: gizzblue on October 22, 2018, 10:49:14 PM
Whilst i am happy to bang the Gomes drum (albeit with the caveats you and @brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) have raised), i cannot agree enough with this statement.
There woulyd have been very loud groans if Davies had have played the exact same game.
It's a throw away statement though in reality ....
Davies has had a season and a bit v Gomes one game and already they seem on a par. ...I really hope Gomes can push on and Davies can learn lots from him too .
Post by: Martip on October 22, 2018, 10:53:10 PM
He did look a tad sluggish at times so hoping he 'll find another 5-10% with fitness. Overall a good start though
Post by: TheRam on October 22, 2018, 11:07:39 PM
Gomes was very composed and I hardly recall him losing possession.
Yeah he was a bit too conservative at times, but I’m putting that down to bedding himself into the game.
Times in that second half where he was dictating the game with his use of the ball.
In terms of passing the ball, it was a level above what Davies has given us in that role so far.
Post by: Nicco on October 22, 2018, 11:53:25 PM
But I dont think anybody would say that hus influence on games is poor to non-existent even if the stats regarding his passing suggest otherwise.
Iniesta has in 362 games 72 assists, 1,3 key passes and 0,5 through balls. Better but I always thought his stats were of the chart like...
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Post by: GLewis on October 22, 2018, 11:55:20 PM
I’m assuming he could end up playing a similar role as Dembele does for Spurs.
As he can use both feet, is big (and therefore with time in PL should develop shielding skills etc) and also can move forward with the ball I think we’d see the benefit over a number of games of keeping a bit more momentum in moves.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 23, 2018, 12:03:48 AM
I remember Gerrard being a headless chicken throwing in about 8 two-footers with studs up a game when he was late teens. So let this guy lay down some heavy minutes and let Davies influence the games that Silva can accommodate an inexperienced youngster in.
Post by: brap2 on October 23, 2018, 12:04:11 AM
As @Bluedylan (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3747) mentioned, his weight of pass (seemingly with both feet) is a big upgrade on other options.
I’m assuming he could end up playing a similar role as Dembele does for Spurs.
As he can use both feet, is big (and therefore with time in PL should develop shielding skills etc) and also can move forward with the ball I think we’d see the benefit over a number of games of keeping a bit more momentum in moves.
This weight of pass thing feels a bit iffy to me. Maybe just a nuance of the game I’m dismissing as fluff tho.
The biggest and best upgrades he is offering over each is that he’s willing to get on the ball and that he is physically powerful enough to dribble past people and create separation, which neither Davies or Gana can.
Post by: GLewis on October 23, 2018, 12:18:06 AM
This weight of pass thing feels a bit iffy to me. Maybe just a nuance of the game I’m dismissing as fluff tho.
The biggest and best upgrades he is offering over each is that he’s willing to get on the ball and that he is physically powerful enough to dribble past people and create separation, which neither Davies or Gana can.
I just think that any player can kick it from the middle of the pitch to the wing etc but unless you’ve got the force in the pass it can be easier to read and make a decision whether to intercept, stay back etc.
If we’re to continue to use the wings a lot we’ll need to be able to get the ball from one side of the pitch to the other quickly to exploit the space there.
Post by: brap2 on October 23, 2018, 12:24:42 AM
I just think that any player can kick it from the middle of the pitch to the wing etc but unless you’ve got the force in the pass it can be easier to read and make a decision whether to intercept, stay back etc.
If we’re to continue to use the wings a lot we’ll need to be able to get the ball from one side of the pitch to the other quickly to exploit the space there.
Hm will keep my eyes open.
Not sure who I am to talk as I have a long standing grudge against jagielka because I think he plays simple passes either to players bad foot, into a player who is clearly about to get pressed, or right underneath peoples feet so they have no chance of receiving it properly. Not sure what you’d call that.
Weight of pass maybe!
Post by: MmmblueBernard on October 23, 2018, 12:25:57 AM
Can see that after only 3/4 of a game with practically zero proper match experience for months.
Could prove to be out most astute signing in what is proving to be our best window in years.
Post by: formerKHL on October 23, 2018, 02:00:38 AM
What I look for in a player is firstly what he does without the ball......and his positional sense and work ethic was very good..very rarely if at all was he out of position....his presence in the midfield was massive.....maybe just maybe that’s why palaces midfielders were so “non existent”?....
Secondly a good player always seems to have lots of time and space when they have the ball....he did this very well...created space for himself and had time on the ball...that wasnt about palace midfielders not pressing him but more the fact he made time for himself..like good players do.....ok he got caught a couple of times in the second half as he tired......only expected...I was more surprised he lasted as long as he did.....
Stats don’t cover these 2 key elements of what make a good player....
Bearing in mind this is what he did without the ball.....
On this showing for me he could be the best midfielder we’ve had since arteta.....
Post by: brap2 on October 23, 2018, 02:15:50 AM
Did play a bit more like a six actually didn’t he. Especially second half.
Well I’ll take him over Schneiderlin anyway, and think he looks quite promising.
Post by: Lxxx on October 23, 2018, 02:25:52 AM
He’s tall and has a rangy stride so you can imagine him when fully fit striding forward 20-30 yards with the ball, which is an asset no-one else in the squad has.
He’s also got a bigger frame, two footed and a sexy name. The old adage of ‘you always kick your own dog harder than you kick someone else’s’ rings true here. He’ll get away with more than Davies simply because he’s not called Davies and he’s not ours.
Post by: Bluedylan on October 23, 2018, 02:37:21 AM
This weight of pass thing feels a bit iffy to me. Maybe just a nuance of the game I’m dismissing as fluff tho.
The biggest and best upgrades he is offering over each is that he’s willing to get on the ball and that he is physically powerful enough to dribble past people and create separation, which neither Davies or Gana can.
You must've played yourself a bit? Surely you can understand the difference between someone who has a good weight of pass or not? It's appreciation of space, and knowing whether to zip it into feet, or to stroke it into someone's path.
Post by: brap2 on October 23, 2018, 03:01:24 AM
You must've played yourself a bit? Surely you can understand the difference between someone who has a good weight of pass or not? It's appreciation of space, and knowing whether to zip it into feet, or to stroke it into someone's path.
Yeah i get it I just mean, like how robust is it as an observation?
Like - I like how Calvert-Lewis runs, I think he looks smooth in his movements and can accelerate like a sprinter, but none of that is very robust as an observation about why he’s a good player.
I like how Tosun scores different sorts of strikes, but it’s not like a real thing is it. Part of it will be personal bias, part of it will be aesthetics, part of it will be confirmation bias. Put a number on how weighty the pass was out of weightyness and tell me why it’s insightful and I could buy into it, other wise it just feels like nice stylistic fluff.
Not saying it’s not important, just yeah, might not be very tangible.
Post by: Bluedylan on October 23, 2018, 03:06:42 AM
Yeah i get it I just mean, like how robust is it as an observation?
Like - I like how Calvert-Lewis runs, I think he looks smooth in his movements and can accelerate like a sprinter, but none of that is very robust as an observation about why he’s a good player.
I like how Tosun scores different sorts of strikes, but it’s not like a real thing is it. Part of it will be personal bias, part of it will be aesthetics, part of it will be confirmation bias. Put a number on how weighty the pass was out of weightyness and tell me why it’s insightful and I could buy into it, other wise it just feels like nice stylistic fluff.
Not saying it’s not important, just yeah, might not be very tangible.
I get what you're saying yes. I'm not sure it's particularly measurable as a metric, but that's football eh? Some of the most important facets of the game aren't necessarily measurable statistically, which illustrates the limitations of just taking a stats based approach to analysis.
Post by: brap2 on October 23, 2018, 03:14:10 AM
I get what you're saying yes. I'm not sure it's particularly measurable as a metric, but that's football eh? Some of the most important facets of the game aren't necessarily measurable statistically, which illustrates the limitations of just taking a stats based approach to analysis.
Agree. Think it’s actually ruining footy for me a bit to be honest. I’ve become fixated on metrics I barely understand when deep down I just wanna see a few step overs and a big header.
Post by: Mouse on October 23, 2018, 03:19:24 AM
But, I have to caution myself, it's very similar to how I saw Schneiderlin's performances when he first arrived. Having said that, given this was his first competitive outing in 6 months, he really impressed and the potential is mind-blowing.
In fairness, I do think comparisons with Davies are unfair to Davies. There are very few 20 year old CM's in their second full season who would stand comparison against a 25 year old good enough to be taken by Barcelona. Davies has time and possibly a much needed role model on his side.
Post by: Tony Clifton on October 23, 2018, 04:19:29 AM
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Post by: Mick 1995 on October 23, 2018, 03:15:07 PM
Agree. Think it’s actually ruining footy for me a bit to be honest. I’ve become fixated on metrics I barely understand when deep down I just wanna see a few step overs and a big header.
I do get that feeling fella. You're journey from "Wow @kramer0 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) , what are these funky looking diagrams" to "You can't measure it, so it may not be relevant as to whether someone is good" has been clear to those who look out for your posts.
Stats are useful and have their place. Our management team will be elbow deep in them.
For many, many, many things they are vitally important. But as with all statistics, they're fundamentally flawed in isolation.
I love a good heat map though.
Post by: brap2 on October 23, 2018, 03:23:47 PM
I do get that feeling fella. You're journey from "Wow @kramer0 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) , what are these funky looking diagrams" to "You can't measure it, so it may not be relevant as to whether someone is good" has been clear to those who look out for your posts.
Stats are useful and have their place. Our management team will be elbow deep in them.
For many, many, many things they are vitally important. But as with all statistics, they're fundamentally flawed in isolation.
I love a good heat map though.
Yeah I know it myself mate. Yesterday trying to argue that weight of pass isn’t measurable so should be disregarded just felt like a million miles away from how I enjoy the game as a spectator.
Part of the issue is I think that it’s been very clear Everton actually are not all over this sort of thing, and have been making very costly mistakes. You see this wealth of research and you think - if we are going to take a step forward, it’s going to be by embracing and gaming this kind of information, not disregarding it and signing Davy Klaasen. Absolutely desperate for everton to stop letting me down, and this has felt to me like the answer.
However at the end of the day I’m not massively knowledgeable, I listen to pods and read blogs and a lot of the opinions I’ve formed have played out to be fair, so I do still believe in a lot of it, especially when it passes the eye test but at some point I’ve started giving myself a weird existential crisis and probably doing everyone’s head in on here to boot.
Plus, we signed richarlison despite scorn, because the manager believed in him and his underlying numbers were still very strong. Maybe we’ve turned a corner.
Post by: Jamokachi on October 23, 2018, 03:32:09 PM
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1054417036531654658
This response tho...
https://twitter.com/WillSliney/status/1054449197808844801
Post by: Mick 1995 on October 23, 2018, 03:35:26 PM
Yeah I know it myself mate. Yesterday trying to argue that weight of pass isn’t measurable so should be disregarded just felt like a million miles away from how I enjoy the game as a spectator.
Part of the issue is I think that it’s been very clear Everton actually are not all over this sort of thing, and have been making very costly mistakes. You see this wealth of research and you think - if we are going to take a step forward, it’s going to be by embracing and gaming this kind of information, not disregarding it and signing Davy Klaasen. Absolutely desperate for everton to stop letting me down, and this has felt to me like the answer.
However at the end of the day I’m not massively knowledgeable, I listen to pods and read blogs and a lot of the opinions I’ve formed have played out to be fair, so I do still believe in a lot of it, especially when it passes the eye test but at some point I’ve started giving myself a weird existential crisis and probably doing everyone’s head in on here to boot.
Plus, we signed richarlison despite scorn, because the manager believed in him and his underlying numbers were still very strong. Maybe we’ve turned a corner.
I think it's both and that's the main difference between baseball and football - and what a lot of us have said.
The stats, for so many positions, for so many things is crucial.
But there is still a massive place for gut-instinct in the game.
The top clubs in the world have the same data we do and will hoover up the players we need to become a top club.
Our only way forward is either luck of local youth recruitment or a manager/DoF with a "feeling" about a handful of players.
Post by: kramer0 on October 23, 2018, 09:21:34 PM
Agree. Think it’s actually ruining footy for me a bit to be honest. I’ve become fixated on metrics I barely understand when deep down I just wanna see a few step overs and a big header.
Yeah, it's not supposed to ruin your enjoyment of the game. Without the fun factor, what's the point of watching or following football?
For me, stats make the game better because they get me thinking about what actions on the pitch are truly valuable.
It's the difference between a winger who uses his skill to create separation to play a long cross and a winger who uses his skill to get into the box and shoot or play a shorter pass to an unmarked teammate. The latter is a lot more fun to watch because you can appreciate his technical ability and all of the chances (and, ultimately, goals) he creates.
Post by: Mick 1995 on October 23, 2018, 09:28:04 PM
Yeah, it's not supposed to ruin your enjoyment of the game. Without the fun factor, what's the point of watching or following football?
For me, stats make the game better because they get me thinking about what actions on the pitch are truly valuable.
It's the difference between a winger who uses his skill to create separation to play a long cross and a winger who uses his skill to get into the box and shoot or play a shorter pass to an unmarked teammate. The latter is a lot more fun to watch because you can appreciate his technical ability and all of the chances (and, ultimately, goals) he creates.
It's a good example that. But also to highlight why stats in isolation are no good.
Winger A does the former a lot and has very poor chance creation or even assists. Winger B does the latter and has really high numbers.
Team A has Duncan Ferguson and Tim Cahill in and a load of yard-dogs behind them.
Team B has Bernard up front and Sigurdsson behind him.
Obviously managers of each team are going to buy the correct winger, or try to. Hopefully.
The problem on this side of the fence though, is everybody writes off winger A because of his charts.
Post by: kramer0 on October 23, 2018, 10:04:50 PM
It's a good example that. But also to highlight why stats in isolation are no good.
Winger A does the former a lot and has very poor chance creation or even assists. Winger B does the latter and has really high numbers.
Team A has Duncan Ferguson and Tim Cahill in and a load of yard-dogs behind them.
Team B has Bernard up front and Sigurdsson behind him.
Obviously managers of each team are going to buy the correct winger, or try to. Hopefully.
The problem on this side of the fence though, is everybody writes off winger A because of his charts.
I don't see that as an issue. I don't want the lad who's adapted to a shit playing style unless he's young and we have time to re-teach him.
The players we sign should match the way we want to play (or we need have time to mold them into what we want them to be).
Post by: Shogun on October 23, 2018, 11:35:52 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on October 24, 2018, 01:19:08 AM
Post by: Mick 1995 on October 24, 2018, 02:46:55 PM
I don't see that as an issue. I don't want the lad who's adapted to a shit playing style unless he's young and we have time to re-teach him.
The players we sign should match the way we want to play (or we need have time to mold them into what we want them to be).
But you're not the sole arbiter if what good football is.
There are many people who love nothing more than a winger skinning a man, getting to the line, whipping it in and some hero of a centre forward thundering it in.
Jesus, we're Everton. That kind of goal is deep-rooted into our DNA. It's amongst the reasons our number 9s have been so revered.
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 24, 2018, 03:36:46 PM
But you're not the sole arbiter if what good football is.Not many better sights than a cross slung over and an Everton player climbing over everyone and slamming a header in... Off the bar!!
There are many people who love nothing more than a winger skinning a man, getting to the line, whipping it in and some hero of a centre forward thundering it in.
Jesus, we're Everton. That kind of goal is deep-rooted into our DNA. It's amongst the reasons our number 9s have been so revered.
Post by: Jamokachi on October 24, 2018, 03:46:23 PM
Post by: brap2 on October 24, 2018, 03:53:29 PM
Seeing DCL score on Sunday reminded me how much I love a headed goal.
Give me a big number 9 making Rio Ferdinand look like a frightened little kid > a 30 yard screamer any day of the week
Post by: Mick 1995 on October 24, 2018, 04:18:45 PM
Give me a big number 9 making Rio Ferdinand look like a frightened little kid > a 30 yard screamer any day of the week
Had a lump in my throat that game.
Post by: Jamokachi on October 24, 2018, 04:20:41 PM
Had a lump in my throat that game.
Blowjob was it?
Post by: Lxxx on October 24, 2018, 04:27:06 PM
Post by: Major Clanger on October 24, 2018, 04:32:06 PM
[...]The latter is a lot more fun to watch[...]
...for you.
Fun is subjective.
Post by: Macca77 on October 25, 2018, 04:15:02 AM
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1055161346751369217
Post by: MmmblueBernard on October 25, 2018, 04:25:41 AM
Post by: Bluedylan on October 25, 2018, 04:54:19 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 25, 2018, 04:56:05 AM
Is it wrong that I kind of want him to hold me like that?Nope, am feeling the same
Post by: TheRam on October 25, 2018, 04:59:39 AM
Is it wrong that I kind of want him to hold me like that?
What do you reckon he smells like?
Post by: Dr. Sponge on October 25, 2018, 05:35:39 AM
Give me a big number 9 making Rio Ferdinand look like a frightened little kid > a 30 yard screamer any day of the week
I read this this morning then YouTubed that game, then googled stuff about Bug Dunc and read an article about Roy Keane saying he used to stay away from him, then YouTubed more Ferguson goals.
I lost track of time and was almost late for work. Try explaining that to ya boss as a 31 year old.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Mouse on October 25, 2018, 05:44:44 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 25, 2018, 05:54:16 AM
What do you reckon he smells like?Amazing
Post by: Bluedylan on October 25, 2018, 06:45:08 AM
What do you reckon he smells like?
Probably Jasmine, if I had to stick my neck out.
Post by: Confucius on October 25, 2018, 10:23:10 AM
Take a bow gents.
Post by: Macca77 on October 25, 2018, 02:03:49 PM
What do you reckon he smells like?
Sex Panther or candy floss
Post by: formerKHL on October 25, 2018, 04:07:10 PM
Probably Jasmine, if I had to stick my neck out.
Does she work in the canteen ?
Post by: brap2 on October 25, 2018, 04:11:18 PM
Maybe Dior Sauvage if out with the lads.
Post by: Macca77 on October 25, 2018, 04:40:34 PM
Maybe Dior Sauvage if out with the lads.
Fav
Post by: di_guyo on October 25, 2018, 09:05:40 PM
What do you reckon he smells like?
Pastel de nata. Tasty.
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 25, 2018, 09:08:41 PM
Post by: Escla on October 25, 2018, 09:47:55 PM
I LOVE how gay it is on this forum :love:
I thinks it’s just how Andre’ has made us all feel that much closer to our feminine side lolol
Post by: blueski on October 25, 2018, 11:41:33 PM
Post by: Macca77 on October 25, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on October 26, 2018, 01:03:38 AM
Probably Jasmine, if I had to stick my neck out.Jasmine and Watneys Indian Pale Ale would Knock me bandy.
Post by: Silas on October 26, 2018, 01:15:24 AM
Post by: Paddockoldie on October 26, 2018, 01:26:02 AM
Pure Silva pour homme.
Post by: brap2 on October 26, 2018, 02:11:46 AM
Be tough to sign him I reckon, he won't be short of offers
I reckon he’s fell for the blues me
Post by: Macca77 on October 26, 2018, 02:46:05 AM
I reckon he’s fell for the blues me
Well we've all fell for him haven't we
Post by: gizzblue on October 26, 2018, 02:49:38 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 26, 2018, 02:55:08 AM
Soon be Evertonized ....playing weekly will help him and is too ...but he is making all the right moves to be a future legend here .Helps with a portugese manager and 2 players he knows coming here
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 26, 2018, 03:05:02 AM
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1055550073092751360
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2018/10/25/gomes
Post by: AllyBlue14 on October 26, 2018, 03:19:19 AM
SWOON
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1055550073092751360
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2018/10/25/gomes
"I'd let him bum me, no questions asked." 😂😂
Post by: Blue Lagoon on October 26, 2018, 04:00:49 AM
Post by: Deano Blue Boy on October 26, 2018, 04:03:40 AM
Post by: Ramjam on October 26, 2018, 04:25:08 AM
Post by: Dr. Sponge on October 26, 2018, 07:15:43 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Macca77 on October 26, 2018, 02:04:54 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on October 26, 2018, 03:16:30 PM
He smells of almonds and jasmine.
Post by: Bally on October 26, 2018, 03:29:30 PM
Nah he's old school, smells of FarenheightWent to buy some of that the other day 82 quid for the one I used to get, they can get fucked.
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Post by: Ramjam on October 26, 2018, 03:30:39 PM
Went to buy some of that the other day 82 quid for the one I used to get, they can get fucked.Thought you would have been a blue stratus man myself
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Post by: Bally on October 26, 2018, 03:32:42 PM
Thought you would have been a blue stratus man myselfNah it's either fresh citrus or musky depending on my mood.
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Post by: brap2 on October 26, 2018, 03:34:27 PM
Post by: formerKHL on October 26, 2018, 06:55:42 PM
Went to buy some of that the other day 82 quid for the one I used to get, they can get fucked.
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but isn't that why your buying it...so you can get...…….
Post by: School of Science on October 26, 2018, 08:05:59 PM
Post by: Goaljira on October 26, 2018, 08:27:45 PM
Nah it's either fresh citrus or musky depending on my mood.
Sent from my CLT-L09 using NSNO Everton Forums mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)
https://www.perfume-parlour.co.uk/faareheight-for-men
Post by: Macca77 on October 26, 2018, 10:16:06 PM
Wonder how long this love in will last, especially if we get tonked on Sunday ;)
My love is everlasting
Post by: gizzblue on October 26, 2018, 10:52:29 PM
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2018, 12:35:22 AM
And some Milk Tray for the ladies
Is this going to be a long lasting marriage or a brief love affair?
Post by: Paddockoldie on October 27, 2018, 12:45:50 AM
Post by: Bally on October 27, 2018, 04:20:11 AM
Nah I live with my Mrs it's just because I like the smell
but isn't that why your buying it...so you can get..........
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Post by: Bally on October 27, 2018, 04:23:08 AM
https://www.perfume-parlour.co.uk/faareheight-for-menCheers man I'll have a look at that
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Post by: Brownie on October 29, 2018, 12:23:20 AM
Post by: Shogun on October 29, 2018, 12:24:20 AM
Definitely got a player here
He's so good.
Stick stats up your arse.
Post by: Cozzie on October 29, 2018, 12:33:56 AM
Calm and composed and not scared to pick a pass.
Post by: Toddacelli on October 29, 2018, 01:01:32 AM
What does he smell like? Like you got to re-live your life over again but this time could make all the right decisions to be a better and more successful human being.
Post by: Macca77 on October 29, 2018, 01:21:22 AM
Post by: Martip on October 29, 2018, 01:23:46 AM
We need to sign him, hopefully we're already chatting to Barca about a permanent dealWhat sort of money do you reckon he'd cost ?
Post by: Brownie on October 29, 2018, 01:38:49 AM
What sort of money do you reckon he'd cost ?
Euros I'd imagine
Post by: Martip on October 29, 2018, 01:40:37 AM
I 'll happily accept the answer in euros or GBP....
Euros I'd imagine
Post by: van der Meyde on October 29, 2018, 01:41:26 AM
I'm not being facetious, but what do you all like about him? He definitely plays the simple ball well but I'm not sure Ive seen much more than that personally...
Post by: Shogun on October 29, 2018, 01:45:25 AM
He's shown some nice touches, but it feels like you all like him more than I do.
I'm not being facetious, but what do you all like about him? He definitely plays the simple ball well but I'm not sure Ive seen much more than that personally...
Numerous times he moved forward with the ball fighting off two or three United players and then making the right pass forward, the major difference between him and Schneiderlin.
Similar to Spurs' Dembele imo.
Post by: Brownie on October 29, 2018, 01:53:40 AM
He's shown some nice touches, but it feels like you all like him more than I do.
I'm not being facetious, but what do you all like about him? He definitely plays the simple ball well but I'm not sure Ive seen much more than that personally...
Thought today in particular he was strong on the ball and looked to make good passes. Dropped back into that role that MS is meant to to help out the CBs and once again put in a draining shift which is why he was knackered at the end. He's not up to speed yet either.
Post by: Macca77 on October 29, 2018, 01:53:57 AM
What sort of money do you reckon he'd cost ?
Read somewhere that the buyout clause is 60 million euros
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on October 29, 2018, 02:04:58 AM
Read somewhere that the buyout clause is 60 million euros
All Spanish contracts have buy out clauses and they're usually ridiculous. Barca were actively looking to sell him this summer, no way he costs close to 60mill
Post by: Makis on October 29, 2018, 02:12:51 AM
He's shown some nice touches, but it feels like you all like him more than I do.He moves the ball forward and his passing is definitely not simple. There were for instance couple of good long balls to the left wing. He was looking for the forward pass and burst forward well himself on a few occasions. Strong on the ball as someone else said, very hard to dispossess. Also decent in the air. Looks like an upgraded Barry to me.
I'm not being facetious, but what do you all like about him? He definitely plays the simple ball well but I'm not sure Ive seen much more than that personally...
And this is a guy playing his second match after an injury having missed the entire pre-season.
Post by: Heisenberg on October 29, 2018, 02:44:40 AM
He moves the ball forward and his passing is definitely not simple. There were for instance couple of good long balls to the left wing. He was looking for the forward pass and burst forward well himself on a few occasions. Strong on the ball as someone else said, very hard to dispossess. Also decent in the air. Looks like an upgraded Barry to me.
And this is a guy playing his second match after an injury having missed the entire pre-season.
To add, he Always wants the ball. Seems to dictate our play. Will be very important player for us, links the team nicely
Post by: School of Science on October 29, 2018, 03:50:21 AM
Post by: blueToffee on October 29, 2018, 04:14:19 AM
He was ok, I thought he went missing at times and I'd like him to be a bit more positive with the ball.
Glad everyone else loves him though. My greatest mistake so far was not particularly liking Pienaar for a few games when we first got him, so maybe this will be up there with that.
I don't mind him, just think he could do more while understanding he's been out for a long while.
Post by: TheRam on October 29, 2018, 04:34:17 AM
Just been listening to the post match blueroom podcast and they’re going on like he ran the show.
Didn’t see that myself, but some good signs, especially the way he can drive with the ball.
Post by: brap2 on October 29, 2018, 01:56:36 PM
I like him, but he needs to show more before we start talking about signing him.
Just been listening to the post match blueroom podcast and they’re going on like he ran the show.
Didn’t see that myself, but some good signs, especially the way he can drive with the ball.
Yeah a lot of the praise is really premature and a bit over the top.
He looks like he doesn’t flap easily when pressed, and he looks like when he wants to he can go past a man, but he is actually yet to *do* anything.
Post by: Macca77 on October 29, 2018, 02:17:16 PM
Post by: Martip on October 29, 2018, 03:04:48 PM
Also it was a joy to behold to see a player driving forward from central midfield which his something we haven't really seen since barkley's departure.
He's going to be one of those players who's actual keystats don't reflect what he brings to the table.....
Post by: Lxxx on October 29, 2018, 03:19:16 PM
Post by: Waltzer on October 29, 2018, 03:44:30 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 29, 2018, 03:50:11 PM
Post by: brap2 on October 29, 2018, 05:20:59 PM
If he’s that good it will show where it matters. If he looks elegant when keeping possession all the better but the game of football is won and lost in centre mid - if he’s good it will be clear, as it was with Barry and as it was to the contrary with Schneiderlin.
Post by: Martip on October 29, 2018, 05:51:59 PM
I don’t want to get into it again but the idea your centre mid can be great at *secret stuff that isn’t measurable* is pure pure fantasy land.I get the point you are making but feel that it is placing too much emphasis stats. There are aspects of a game that cannot be covered sufficiently by figures imo.
If he’s that good it will show where it matters. If he looks elegant when keeping possession all the better but the game of football is won and lost in centre mid - if he’s good it will be clear, as it was with Barry and as it was to the contrary with Schneiderlin.
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 29, 2018, 05:53:53 PM
Post by: brap2 on October 29, 2018, 06:04:38 PM
I get the point you are making but feel that it is placing too much emphasis stats. There are aspects of a game that cannot be covered sufficiently by figures imo.
Yes I agree, but they’re essentially not as important as the stuff that is - progressing the ball, passing into dangerous areas, creating chances, passing to players that create chances, having dangerous shots, tackling and intercepting the ball, avoiding being tackled and passing the ball accurately, dribbling beyond players, breaking lines.
I like what I see from him, but if he is as good as it feels he is - it will show in the stats eventually.
At the moment he is being heralded as the fix to our midfield when he hasn’t created a single chance on goal or contributed in a truly meaningful way besides looking calm and reposed on the ball (which is good!).
Like what I’ve seen but let’s give him more than 2 OK games before lashing money on him.
Post by: SANA_DR0 on October 29, 2018, 06:23:27 PM
Yes I agree, but they’re essentially not as important as the stuff that is - progressing the ball, passing into dangerous areas, creating chances, passing to players that create chances, having dangerous shots, tackling and intercepting the ball, avoiding being tackled and passing the ball accurately, dribbling beyond players, breaking lines.
I like what I see from him, but if he is as good as it feels he is - it will show in the stats eventually.
At the moment he is being heralded as the fix to our midfield when he hasn’t created a single chance on goal or contributed in a truly meaningful way besides looking calm and reposed on the ball (which is good!).
Like what I’ve seen but let’s give him more than 2 OK games before lashing money on him.
just off the top of my head.. from yesterday.. he took a few people on, played it to the wing.. ran into the box and headed the ball on target..
just an example of him creating a chance.
Post by: Bluedylan on October 29, 2018, 06:29:51 PM
Post by: Macca77 on October 29, 2018, 06:34:10 PM
Post by: AllyBlue14 on October 29, 2018, 06:47:14 PM
Yes I agree, but they’re essentially not as important as the stuff that is - progressing the ball, passing into dangerous areas, creating chances, passing to players that create chances, having dangerous shots, tackling and intercepting the ball, avoiding being tackled and passing the ball accurately, dribbling beyond players, breaking lines.
I like what I see from him, but if he is as good as it feels he is - it will show in the stats eventually.
At the moment he is being heralded as the fix to our midfield when he hasn’t created a single chance on goal or contributed in a truly meaningful way besides looking calm and reposed on the ball (which is good!).
Like what I’ve seen but let’s give him more than 2 OK games before lashing money on him.
I love a good stat as much as anyone, if not more actually, but it's ok for some things to be immeasurable.
Imagine playing centre back - you could have one CB partner who is unflappable, clears the ball from danger, makes interceptions, passes to the midfield etc.; or you could have another with exactly the same stats, but his interceptions are last-ditch, having played his team-mates into danger, his headers are off the line having scrambled back to cover.
OK, so it's a bit extreme, but I think there's a lot to be said for confidence, composure and helping to create a platform from which your team-mates can play. Maybe it will ultimately be reflected in the stats, but even if it isn't, as long as he keeps showing what he has so far (and improving) I wouldn't replace him with Schneiderlin so we can up our (sideways/backwards) pass completion by 5%.
Post by: brap2 on October 29, 2018, 06:52:50 PM
Post by: gizzblue on October 29, 2018, 06:52:59 PM
Yeah he's shit :badum:
Post by: Juanito on October 29, 2018, 07:00:08 PM
Post by: Martip on October 29, 2018, 07:05:16 PM
Do people really think Schneids is better than Gomes. ...I must have spent the last 40 years watching football wrong .....he did everything possible yesterday ...held the ball like it was a baby not a hot stone, passed forward, used the wings, took players on, found good passes 90% of the time ,covered when others got forward even had a shot on target ....honestly don't think Schneids ever did all that even at Southampton ...not to mention this was against man u on only his second game after an injury . :thumbsup:You know gets me about MS is that we don't look any less likely to concede with him playing as he's actually not that good in the tackle. In a addition got this he's crap going forward so literally brings nowt to the table.
Yeah he's shit :badum:
Post by: brap2 on October 29, 2018, 07:22:39 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 29, 2018, 07:24:54 PM
Just a quick note to say Morgan Schneiderlin has a better pass accuracy this year than Gomes and has an assist to his name - just to spice it up a bit 😂Whats his longest pass? 5 yards? Any forward passes there? Dribbles? I am not massively against schneiderlin btw, he's just very reserved in his passing
Post by: Bluedylan on October 29, 2018, 07:26:55 PM
Just a quick note to say Morgan Schneiderlin has a better pass accuracy this year than Gomes and has an assist to his name - just to spice it up a bit 😂
Earlier I think you suggested that Gomes should be partially measured on passes to goal creators, or passes that break lines. He played the pass to Gylfi vs Palace last week, where Gylfi then slid Walcott in and he hit it straight at the keeper. That pass was to a creator and it broke the Palace lines.
Post by: gizzblue on October 29, 2018, 07:29:40 PM
Just a quick note to say Morgan Schneiderlin has a better pass accuracy this year than Gomes and has an assist to his name - just to spice it up a bit 😂
Maybe leave off sucking Schneids farts till Gomes has had 6 appearances too :thumbsup:
Post by: Martip on October 29, 2018, 07:35:43 PM
Just a quick note to say Morgan Schneiderlin has a better pass accuracy this year than Gomes and has an assist to his name - just to spice it up a bit 😂Average pass length 3m ? ;D
Post by: brap2 on October 29, 2018, 07:38:42 PM
Earlier I think you suggested that Gomes should be partially measured on passes to goal creators, or passes that break lines. He played the pass to Gylfi vs Palace last week, where Gylfi then slid Walcott in and he hit it straight at the keeper. That pass was to a creator and it broke the Palace lines.
Yep 100% agree - apologies I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of every pass he has completed.
What I’m saying is - the stats can measure that stuff, if he does it and keeps doing it, it will show and importantly it will be very clear to us that we have someone doing it, because we haven’t had that for a while (at a good level). Not saying he doesn’t do it at all, just that we shouldn’t buy someone who doesn’t. If and when he does it it will be clear.
The Schneiderlin post above was just a bit of fun to highlight that yes there are lots of ways to see things and as a cm who is very comfortable being safe on the ball he can look good in certain lights.
I think and hope that he’s done here, but, yeah. I have been fooled on the past by him being some comfortable and a touch of class stroking the ball out wide.
I don’t think anybody in their right mind would say Morgan over Andre at the moment.
Post by: Bluedylan on October 29, 2018, 07:43:42 PM
Yep 100% agree - apologies I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of every pass he has completed.
What I’m saying is - the stats can measure that stuff, if he does it and keeps doing it, it will show and importantly it will be very clear to us that we have someone doing it, because we haven’t had that for a while (at a good level). Not saying he doesn’t do it at all, just that we shouldn’t buy someone who doesn’t. If and when he does it it will be clear.
The Schneiderlin post above was just a bit of fun to highlight that yes there are lots of ways to see things and as a cm who is very comfortable being safe on the ball he can look good in certain lights.
I think and hope that he’s done here, but, yeah. I have been fooled on the past by him being some comfortable and a touch of class stroking the ball out wide.
I don’t think anybody in their right mind would say Morgan over Andre at the moment.
I know. It's just that you said he should be measured on something, which I accept, and I'm pointing out an example of when he did something tangible and measurable. You said he 'hasn't contributed in a truly meaningful way besides looking calm', and I was just pointing to an easily re-callable example of that being wrong.
Nothing personal at all, but if you make such broad, sweeping statements, people will point out if they aren't accurate.
Post by: brap2 on October 29, 2018, 07:51:40 PM
I know. It's just that you said he should be measured on something, which I accept, and I'm pointing out an example of when he did something tangible and measurable. You said he 'hasn't contributed in a truly meaningful way besides looking calm', and I was just pointing to an easily re-callable example of that being wrong.
Nothing personal at all, but if you make such broad, sweeping statements, people will point out if they aren't accurate.
Ok great - compared to the average output of a midfielder who plays in his position in the premier league, he has not contributed in a meaningful way above or beyond the average player.
For fucks sake, is what I’m saying really that convoluted? Or do people just sense that it’s not quite sucking his dick and it’s not nice to piss on a bonfire so they just want me to fuck off and post something about his beard?
I am not saying I don’t like Gomes - I may well like him a great deal, but wait until he does something above and beyond OK before saying ‘sign him up!!’ And please don’t say ‘he’s doing stuff the stats can’t see’ because great I’m sure he is but we need someone to move the important stats more than anything or it would be a waste of fucking money.
Post by: brap2 on October 29, 2018, 07:56:31 PM
Whats his longest pass? 5 yards? Any forward passes there? Dribbles? I am not massively against schneiderlin btw, he's just very reserved in his passing
He is indeed, but I wonder HOW much difference in conservative approach there is between the two, and how much is in our heads.
I would take Gomes with one leg over Schneiderlin frankly, but I’m not 100% on him as our long term centre mid yet.
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 29, 2018, 08:10:46 PM
He is indeed, but I wonder HOW much difference in conservative approach there is between the two, and how much is in our heads.He's superior to schneiderlin, I would love us to sign him but think he will cost too much anyway. Yesterday he got the ball and drove forward with intent, the first time ive seen a cm do that for us since Barkley, this is off the back of no real pre season and an injury, he will improve, he will improve us too
I would take Gomes with one leg over Schneiderlin frankly, but I’m not 100% on him as our long term centre mid yet.
Post by: Bluedylan on October 29, 2018, 08:13:09 PM
Ok great - compared to the average output of a midfielder who plays in his position in the premier league, he has not contributed in a meaningful way above or beyond the average player.
For fucks sake, is what I’m saying really that convoluted? Or do people just sense that it’s not quite sucking his dick and it’s not nice to piss on a bonfire so they just want me to fuck off and post something about his beard?
I am not saying I don’t like Gomes - I may well like him a great deal, but wait until he does something above and beyond OK before saying ‘sign him up!!’ And please don’t say ‘he’s doing stuff the stats can’t see’ because great I’m sure he is but we need someone to move the important stats more than anything or it would be a waste of fucking money.
Mate, you're getting too wound up by all of this. I'm just pointing out an example of him doing something measurable in his 2 games.
Post by: Lxxx on October 29, 2018, 08:29:48 PM
Of course it's early days but he has class so long ay it continue.
Post by: brap2 on October 29, 2018, 08:35:30 PM
Post by: Lxxx on October 29, 2018, 10:36:52 PM
Don’t get me started on sig.
Six goals so far and we're still in October. The problem lies ahead of him for me.
Post by: D15TIN on November 01, 2018, 09:51:22 PM
Post by: pjk on November 01, 2018, 09:51:24 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 01, 2018, 10:09:28 PM
Vinny O'Connor just been tweeting that he's spoken to Gomes today, and it's ''fair to say he's loving life at Everton'' - and in regards to staying he's said ''He'll speak to Barca and Everton at the end of the season''He looks happy, if he continues to play with a smile on his face then that can only be a positive for us, IF, we want him of coourse
Post by: Lxxx on November 01, 2018, 10:26:31 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 01, 2018, 10:33:22 PM
Pretty sure we'd be expected to pay Sig-type money, or not far off, to sign him permanently. Is hew worth that kind of investment? Obviously we don't know yet but if he does do well enough to put that option on the table it'd take up a large portion of our transfer budget in he summer just to stand still
Sell McCarthy and Schneiderlin, put the money (and a few million more) towards buying Gomes
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 01, 2018, 10:35:30 PM
Pretty sure we'd be expected to pay Sig-type money, or not far off, to sign him permanently. Is hew worth that kind of investment? Obviously we don't know yet but if he does do well enough to put that option on the table it'd take up a large portion of our transfer budget in he summer just to stand stillHe is only young too, 25 I think
Post by: blueToffee on November 01, 2018, 10:36:53 PM
Pretty sure we'd be expected to pay Sig-type money, or not far off, to sign him permanently. Is hew worth that kind of investment? Obviously we don't know yet but if he does do well enough to put that option on the table it'd take up a large portion of our transfer budget in he summer just to stand still
Potentially, but these deals are rarely straight up cash, they'd probably take the money on a drip of a few years. Plus I'd imagine if we did keep him we'd also be selling Schneiderlin for one so that would offset some of it (and wages). Also, I doubt we'll be signing as many players next summer though, probably a RB, CM and Striker you'd imagine so the money might also not need to go as far. Maybe.
In terms of Gomes specifically, I don't think he's getting back into Barcelona setup, rather he's here for Barca to put him in the shop window. Not worried about the situation, we'll see where we are at the end of the season, but I'd imagine though if we wanted him we could get him.
Post by: Lxxx on November 01, 2018, 10:37:22 PM
Sell McCarthy and Schneiderlin, put the money (and a few million more) towards buying Gomes
We'd probably have to sell Vlasic and Besic too to get to the kind of money we'd need. Which is possible but it still leaves us without a striker and a centre half which will be on the list too once Zouma goes back.
Post by: kramer0 on November 01, 2018, 10:45:32 PM
Pretty sure we'd be expected to pay Sig-type money, or not far off, to sign him permanently. Is hew worth that kind of investment?
No.
Post by: Lxxx on November 01, 2018, 10:49:11 PM
Post by: TheRam on November 02, 2018, 12:15:35 AM
Pretty sure we'd be expected to pay Sig-type money, or not far off, to sign him permanently. Is hew worth that kind of investment? Obviously we don't know yet but if he does do well enough to put that option on the table it'd take up a large portion of our transfer budget in he summer just to stand still
Nah.
Reckon we can box it off for anywhere between 20-30mil.
They were desperate to let him go and will be glad to just get him off the books.
Post by: TheRam on November 02, 2018, 12:18:15 AM
No.
You willing to change your mind over the course of a season or have the numbers already spoke?
Post by: School of Science on November 02, 2018, 12:25:07 AM
Post by: Shogun on November 02, 2018, 12:36:53 AM
Don't see why Gomes would be any more than that.
Post by: Gash on November 02, 2018, 12:44:06 AM
Post by: D15TIN on November 02, 2018, 12:46:22 AM
Pretty sure we'd be expected to pay Sig-type money, or not far off, to sign him permanently. Is hew worth that kind of investment? Obviously we don't know yet but if he does do well enough to put that option on the table it'd take up a large portion of our transfer budget in he summer just to stand stillim not so sure you know, remember they sold us digne for 18, and mina for 20 odd wasn't it? Gomes wasn't a fans favourite at barca, and they've loaned him out for a 2 mill fee this season, I think we'll be talking 20 odd million but not 40-50
Post by: BlueForYou on November 02, 2018, 12:59:53 AM
Post by: Dr. Sponge on November 02, 2018, 01:00:22 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: brap2 on November 02, 2018, 01:16:27 AM
You willing to change your mind over the course of a season or have the numbers already spoke?
Oh like that is it :hmph:
Post by: kramer0 on November 02, 2018, 01:50:59 AM
You willing to change your mind over the course of a season or have the numbers already spoke?
Very willing to change my mind.
It's just that he has to do a lot more than he's shown at any point in his career to be worth top money and I don't expect him to do that.
Post by: D15TIN on November 02, 2018, 01:55:58 AM
Very willing to change my mind.Really don't think we'll be paying above 25-30mill for him, Barca seem reasonable enough to do business with, id be surprised if he wasn't here next season, if he continues his form
It's just that he has to do a lot more than he's shown at any point in his career to be worth top money and I don't expect him to do that.
Post by: Bluedylan on November 02, 2018, 02:00:03 AM
Post by: Shogun on November 02, 2018, 02:00:55 AM
Very willing to change my mind.
It's just that he has to do a lot more than he's shown at any point in his career to be worth top money and I don't expect him to do that.
A career you've seen nothing of.
Post by: Macca77 on November 02, 2018, 02:10:22 AM
Post by: gizzblue on November 02, 2018, 02:11:24 AM
Hope he continues and we buy him it's the direction we need to be going ...plus M&M know their onions so I would expect to be robbing barca off too :thumbsup:
Post by: Mouse on November 02, 2018, 02:14:27 AM
Very willing to change my mind.Can't really argue as, before he came to us, I'd seen nothing of him. But...if Nuno saw enough to take him from Benfica to Valencia and then Barca saw enough to pay £30M plus for him then it does seem he must have shown something at some point in his career.
It's just that he has to do a lot more than he's shown at any point in his career to be worth top money and I don't expect him to do that.
Personally, I really like the look of him but, as I've said before, I thought Schneiderlin was something of a Rolls Royce when he first played for us. What do I know?
He's played a couple of games and hasn't looked out of place while still finding his feet in the Premier League. Let's give him at least until January before we venerate or denigrate.
Post by: brap2 on November 02, 2018, 05:16:24 AM
Very willing to change my mind.
It's just that he has to do a lot more than he's shown at any point in his career to be worth top money and I don't expect him to do that.
To be worth Sig money he’d have to be like a really fucking good centre mid. Naingollan was about £40m I think.
If he carries on his he’s going and we get him for like £20-£30m I’d be sound with that. But he’d have to be truly outstanding for Sig money.
Post by: stirlingblue on November 02, 2018, 02:56:04 PM
Other than that he’s been neat and tidy whilst playing it relatively safe. If his surname was smith and he didn’t play for Barcelona I’m not sure you’d all be so keen to spunk £30+ million on him.
Post by: Bluedylan on November 02, 2018, 03:03:23 PM
Post by: Jamokachi on November 02, 2018, 03:15:16 PM
The only thing I’ve seen in the two games to justify the excitement was the through ball to Walcott against Palace.
That was Gylfi.
Post by: Brownie on November 02, 2018, 03:17:11 PM
I'm not sure the 'if he was ugly' or 'if his surname was Smith' stuff is particularly fair or valid tbh. People have been genuinely impressed by his composure on the ball, his stature and his willingness to put a foot in.
It's not. There's definitely a good player there, one who will really compliment our midfield. You can see the quality there
Post by: Macca77 on November 02, 2018, 03:30:13 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on November 02, 2018, 03:36:17 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 02, 2018, 03:36:42 PM
Schneiderlin is too err shit
Gueye cant pass
Davies gives the ball away
Mccarthy hides all day
Gomes is too neat and tidy
We have a bizarre fan base at times, have to say I am surprised that people cant see Gomes quality despite these being his first games in a while and in a new league
Now I am not saying we should blow 50m on the lad, I am merely pointing out that initial viewings lead me to believe he is a very good player who is better than what we have and, due to his age would be likely to improve
Post by: Macca77 on November 02, 2018, 03:39:34 PM
Id be interested to know what people want off a centre midfielder nowadays
Schneiderlin is too err shit
Gueye cant pass
Davies gives the ball away
Mccarthy hides all day
Gomes is too neat and tidy
We have a bizarre fan base at times, have to say I am surprised that people cant see Gomes quality despite these being his first games in a while and in a new league
Now I am not saying we should blow 50m on the lad, I am merely pointing out that initial viewings lead me to believe he is a very good player who is better than what we have and, due to his age would be likely to improve
Correct, there is a reason Barca bought him, they don't buy average players.
Post by: brap2 on November 02, 2018, 03:51:06 PM
Post by: TheRam on November 02, 2018, 03:56:07 PM
You get told you only like Davies because he’s a local lad, then get told you only like Gomes because he’s foreign and has a fancy name.
Post by: Brownie on November 02, 2018, 04:40:19 PM
Post by: gizzblue on November 02, 2018, 04:45:16 PM
Something else that I don't think has been highlighted is his height. He's a lot taller than I thought he was and I think physically he is going to be more than up to the rigours of that aspect of the Prem
Think he proved this at times against UTD when he was holding the ball with two and three players on him ,why were utd doing this I rekon Moaninho pegged him as a danger .
But what does he know :thumbsup:
Post by: Hesmenos on November 02, 2018, 06:30:04 PM
From the little I've seen of him he looks great when we have the ball, still not convinced about when we don't have it. He's not really known for his tackling but that's probably not as important now as it used to be. He's also switched off a few times when defending. Against Palace he was at fault for both of their chances in the first half. He lost Tomkins for Townsend's cross, and then completely lost Tomkins again for the corner which led to them hitting the crossbar. I;m possibly being harsh on him as it was his first game back and a completely different league to what he has been used to but if we are going to be spending big money on him then he has be good at all aspects
Post by: GLewis on November 02, 2018, 06:39:24 PM
Funny, isn’t it.
You get told you only like Davies because he’s a local lad, then get told you only like Gomes because he’s foreign and has a fancy name.
Where did Jose Baxter go wrong...?
:)
Post by: mikey_blue on November 02, 2018, 07:07:28 PM
I think the previous likening to Dembele is appropriate. It took about 6 years at spurs before people actually realised how important he is. Sometimes metrics don’t tell the whole story. If he makes our midfield more balanced, gives us height and physicality, it will allow other players to expand their own game. It’s just the same as Davies last year, seemed like he would just run around and misplace 5 yard passes, but our performances improved because of his presence.
Discuss the value of the player after more than 2 appearances.
Post by: Goaljira on November 03, 2018, 05:26:13 AM
But I wanted us to sign Sandro after watching him in Spain, so what do I know?
Post by: Macca77 on November 03, 2018, 11:09:31 PM
Post by: GLewis on November 03, 2018, 11:55:01 PM
Post by: brap2 on November 03, 2018, 11:57:54 PM
As an unquantifiable element for Gomes himself, Gueye has been superb in the last 3/4 games.
He’s been an absolute JOKE. Champions League level ball winner.
Post by: Silas on November 03, 2018, 11:58:19 PM
As an unquantifiable element for Gomes himself, Gueye has been superb in the last 3/4 games.
That's what I have took away from him so far. He's very confident on the ball but strong as well. He's what Schneiderlin should be. Gueye has been at his best with someone confident next to him.
Post by: GLewis on November 04, 2018, 12:02:39 AM
He’s been an absolute JOKE. Champions League level ball winner.
Passing has been better too.
Back to being an unbelievable bargain
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 04, 2018, 12:07:05 AM
Post by: brap2 on November 04, 2018, 12:07:54 AM
Clearly a classy operator, can move with the ball and capable of passing into the box - ball for Walcott was great.
Would love someone to dissect the role he’s playing, because it’s not immediately apparent to me the differences between him and gana’s roles besides the obvious.
Post by: GLewis on November 04, 2018, 12:09:29 AM
Impressed me today to be frank.
Clearly a classy operator, can move with the ball and capable of passing into the box - ball for Walcott was great.
Would love someone to dissect the role he’s playing, because it’s not immediately apparent to me the differences between him and gana’s roles besides the obvious.
Yeah it seems to be classic 4-4-2 with individual style being the differentiator of the two cms
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 04, 2018, 12:21:07 AM
Impressed me today to be frank.His positioning is superb, naturally seems to be in the right place more often than not, totally instinctive, we need to get him whatever it takes.
Clearly a classy operator, can move with the ball and capable of passing into the box - ball for Walcott was great.
Would love someone to dissect the role he’s playing, because it’s not immediately apparent to me the differences between him and gana’s roles besides the obvious.
Post by: Trowel on November 04, 2018, 12:31:18 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/5oLuLUXEmZAOs/giphy.gif)
Post by: gizzblue on November 04, 2018, 12:41:15 AM
Post by: Risky on November 04, 2018, 02:32:00 AM
You can see the trust that Gana especially but also the other players have in him. Always showing for the ball and usually gets it.
There were 2 stand out bits for me in the 2nd half. One was where he took out I think 3 opposition players with a simple body swerve and quick shift of the ball. The other was where he exchanged a couple of simple passes with Gana and then just suddenly popped an inch perfect high ball over the full backs head to I think to Lookman. It was the way the pass came out of nowhere that impressed me, and as I keep reminding myself it's especially impressive given his lack of playing time and in theory sharpness.
I'm trying not to get too excited about him, but I'm so impressed by what I've seen so far.
Post by: MmmblueBernard on November 04, 2018, 03:03:09 AM
Touches - 84
Successful passes - 64
Successful forward passes - 33
Successful attacking third passes - 19
Chances created - 1
Pass accuracy - 86%
Recoveries - 10
Aerial duels won - 3
Successful dribbles - 2
Post by: Dr. Sponge on November 04, 2018, 03:12:50 AM
Impressed me today to be frank.
Clearly a classy operator, can move with the ball and capable of passing into the box - ball for Walcott was great.
Would love someone to dissect the role he's playing, because it's not immediately apparent to me the differences between him and gana's roles besides the obvious.
“Boss the game” seems to be the instructions to Gomes and Gueye (GG)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 04, 2018, 03:32:00 AM
Andre Gomes' stats against Brighton:I genuinely don't know if them stats mean he's had a good game or not
Touches - 84
Successful passes - 64
Successful forward passes - 33
Successful attacking third passes - 19
Chances created - 1
Pass accuracy - 86%
Recoveries - 10
Aerial duels won - 3
Successful dribbles - 2
Post by: MmmblueBernard on November 04, 2018, 03:45:01 AM
I genuinely don't know if them stats mean he's had a good game or not
Swashbuckling.
I love him.
Post by: sam of the south on November 04, 2018, 03:49:01 AM
Post by: toshyboy on November 04, 2018, 04:10:44 AM
Post by: Lxxx on November 04, 2018, 04:15:26 AM
Post by: sam of the south on November 04, 2018, 04:16:08 AM
Yeah it seems to be classic 4-4-2 with individual style being the differentiator of the two cms
Looks like a lopsided 2-2-3-3 according to this average positions map!
Post by: Goaljira on November 04, 2018, 05:01:03 AM
Getting better each game he plays, can’t wait to see him in the derby. He’s the type to not get flustered with all the noise and hype, calmness personified this lad. Makes everyone around him at ease too.
Nailed on red card or injury the week before.
Post by: stirlingblue on November 04, 2018, 05:54:08 AM
Andre Gomes' stats against Brighton:
Touches - 84
Successful passes - 64
Successful forward passes - 33
Successful attacking third passes - 19
Chances created - 1
Pass accuracy - 86%
Recoveries - 10
Aerial duels won - 3
Successful dribbles - 2
Didn’t get to watch today, but 10 recoveries is very good and makes me feel better about my major worry about him.
I thought he’d be too passive defensively to work in a midfield two, but if he can correct that then great.
Post by: mikey_blue on November 04, 2018, 02:49:56 PM
Post by: Jamokachi on November 04, 2018, 02:53:47 PM
https://twitter.com/eliot_lord_/status/1058893462978904064?
ha!
Post by: Free Agent on November 04, 2018, 02:58:37 PM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 04, 2018, 03:13:46 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on November 04, 2018, 03:17:15 PM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 04, 2018, 03:47:57 PM
Getting a bit carried away lads. That's very easy to do, unmarked.But OK
Post by: sam of the south on November 04, 2018, 04:03:24 PM
Getting a bit carried away lads. That's very easy to do, unmarked.
The commentary is spot on, though, bro
Post by: Mick 1995 on November 04, 2018, 05:57:52 PM
Getting a bit carried away lads. That's very easy to do, unmarked.
This has confused me. Did you think that clip that has been posted was to highlight something good he did? (In which case, you've missed the point, play it with sound on).
Or are you talking about the stats posted about him?
In which case yeah, he'll have more difficult games than yesterday.
Post by: Bluedylan on November 04, 2018, 05:58:50 PM
This has confused me. Did you think that clip that has been posted was to highlight something good he did? (In which case, you've missed the point, play it with sound on).
Or are you talking about the stats posted about him?
In which case yeah, he'll have more difficult games than yesterday.
The former. I thought that was obvious from Sam's comment.
Post by: Mick 1995 on November 04, 2018, 06:02:05 PM
I've just had to reread everything to see what everybody said.
I've just seen that you liked Sam's comment though, that's what I missed.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 04, 2018, 11:56:39 PM
Post by: brap2 on November 05, 2018, 06:00:56 AM
https://twitter.com/ashwinraman_/status/1058728566777696256?s=21
Post by: Toddacelli on November 05, 2018, 07:41:42 PM
Where did Jose Baxter go wrong...?
:)
Post Of The Year that, G :)
Post by: Toddacelli on November 05, 2018, 07:48:15 PM
Didn’t get to watch today, but 10 recoveries is very good and makes me feel better about my major worry about him.
I thought he’d be too passive defensively to work in a midfield two, but if he can correct that then great.
The YouTube vid I watched (I know, I know, I'm a fucking armchair but what ya gonna do?) did show him winning back possession a fair bit. The 3 stand-out things I took from it were composure, changing defence to attack and great upper body strength.
And I can't believe it's not been said yet - but there aren't nearly enough pics in this thread!
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 05, 2018, 07:54:10 PM
The YouTube vid I watched (I know, I know, I'm a fucking armchair but what ya gonna do?) did show him winning back possession a fair bit. The 3 stand-out things I took from it were composure, changing defence to attack and great upper body strength.
And I can't believe it's not been said yet - but there aren't nearly enough pics in this thread!
Just for you @Toddacelli (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2432)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Andr%C3%A9_Filipe_Tavares_Gomes.jpg)
Post by: Macca77 on November 05, 2018, 08:05:48 PM
Gutted
Post by: Mick 1995 on November 05, 2018, 08:11:26 PM
Would be interested to see where he ends up on this, style wise.
https://twitter.com/ashwinraman_/status/1058728566777696256?s=21
Matic territory at the minute i reckon.
Once he is completely integrated and firing on all barrels, the moving up to Xhaka positioning.
Whether that's sufficient will be down to the system i suppose. Because i suspect that's the highest levels of output we'll see from him.
Post by: brap2 on November 05, 2018, 08:28:42 PM
Matic territory at the minute i reckon.
Once he is completely integrated and firing on all barrels, the moving up to Xhaka positioning.
Whether that's sufficient will be down to the system i suppose. Because i suspect that's the highest levels of output we'll see from him.
Yes that’s about where I’ve got him.
Anything like xhaka levels would be superb, and if he stayed where he is now it would be good but not ideal considering he’s supposed to be our progressive ball passer.
Post by: Mick 1995 on November 05, 2018, 08:39:53 PM
Yes that’s about where I’ve got him.
Anything like xhaka levels would be superb, and if he stayed where he is now it would be good but not ideal considering he’s supposed to be our progressive ball passer.
Exactly.
If this was 6 years ago, it would be more than enough. Back when overlapping fullbacks were the be-all & end-all of attacking play, you could have a central mid who took a ball, moved it forward 10 yards and dish out a side-ways pass all day long.
That's not today though and there needs to be much more vertical movement from this position.
If he can create 1 direct chance per game and feed players who then immediately create a chance a few times a game though, then i'd probably be happy with that for a year or 2.
It would, at least, stop being a crisis position for us. We could then start organically upgrading, as opposed to the "we have zero option except to buy a player for X position immediately" phase we've been in for to long.
Got to give Silva/Brands an enormous amount of credit for the last window. Bernard being useful enough to free up Richarlison to relieve the pressure on Tosun & Zouma/Mina/Digne means we no longer have any position where we cringe when we think about our options.
Post by: brap2 on November 05, 2018, 09:04:42 PM
Exactly.
If this was 6 years ago, it would be more than enough. Back when overlapping fullbacks were the be-all & end-all of attacking play, you could have a central mid who took a ball, moved it forward 10 yards and dish out a side-ways pass all day long.
That's not today though and there needs to be much more vertical movement from this position.
If he can create 1 direct chance per game and feed players who then immediately create a chance a few times a game though, then i'd probably be happy with that for a year or 2.
It would, at least, stop being a crisis position for us. We could then start organically upgrading, as opposed to the "we have zero option except to buy a player for X position immediately" phase we've been in for to long.
Got to give Silva/Brands an enormous amount of credit for the last window. Bernard being useful enough to free up Richarlison to relieve the pressure on Tosun & Zouma/Mina/Digne means we no longer have any position where we cringe when we think about our options.
Yeah compared to last year it is night and day. Cuco Martina like. 5 at the back v Stoke ffs.
Yeah think I’d be happy with Gomes if he does that. He’s have to triple his current chance creation but why not.
Wouldn’t necessarily spend big money on him however.
Post by: Lxxx on November 05, 2018, 09:31:54 PM
I'd like to see him when he's got a full tank for a lot longer, see if we get more of the runs he's shown he can do but only fleetingly. I'd like to see him get past Sig on occasions but that may come once they get used to each other
Post by: Mick 1995 on November 05, 2018, 09:43:43 PM
Yeah compared to last year it is night and day. Cuco Martina like. 5 at the back v Stoke ffs.
Yeah think I’d be happy with Gomes if he does that. He’s have to triple his current chance creation but why not.
Wouldn’t necessarily spend big money on him however.
I think "releasing" players is going to be more his role. Players who then create a chance.
Take a ball, drift between the 2 block-lines and feed Walcott/Bernard/Sigurdsson/Lookman.
Once or twice a match feed a ball through to the feet of somebody in the box.
He has a "ceiling" though. I think some of the recent discussions about him have centered around the people thinking he doesn't have one feeling that those of us who thinks he does are saying he is rubbish.
Post by: MmmblueBernard on November 06, 2018, 12:39:03 AM
I think.........he is rubbish.
When paraphrasing goes wrong...
Post by: sam of the south on November 06, 2018, 01:21:16 AM
Just for you @Toddacelli (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2432)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Andr%C3%A9_Filipe_Tavares_Gomes.jpg)
Christ :shock:
I just felt my womb throb.
And I don’t even have a womb.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 06, 2018, 01:33:50 AM
Post by: sam of the south on November 06, 2018, 03:11:09 AM
Hope he dosen't read this thread he might start over thinking..
Haha, he would be so confused :snigger:
A bit like me 🤔
Post by: sam of the south on November 06, 2018, 03:12:42 AM
He's got a pimple on his lip there, he's not perfect afterall.
Gutted
There’s no pus in that spot, though.
It’s filled with vanilla ice cream.
Post by: Deano Blue Boy on November 06, 2018, 03:22:25 AM
Post by: sam of the south on November 06, 2018, 04:01:13 AM
Wonder if he knows what space docking is
Wow, haven’t heard that term for about a decade 👏🏼😂
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on November 06, 2018, 05:49:51 AM
Wow, haven’t heard that term for about a decade 👏🏼😂Thank god for google, it's hard work when your well over the 50 mark and moved to the sticks years ago, have enjoyed looking up what a Gomes is though, turns out we need a permanent one.
Post by: BlueForYou on November 10, 2018, 02:24:34 PM
Post by: Brownie on November 10, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 10, 2018, 05:49:27 PM
This weekend will be a good indicator of how good he actually is. Has had three full games now so more accustomed to the Prem. let's see how he does againstbthe Chelsea midfield. Come on AndreNot many midfielders go to Stamford Bridge and boss a game tbf
Post by: brap2 on November 11, 2018, 09:25:58 AM
If we press he will evade and pass out of it, if we sit back he will do whatever he wants.
Imo - stop hazard, stop willian, stop Barkley, and hit them on the break.
It’s almost a free hit for me.
I think we’re miles away, in fact I think football is essentially broken, BUT, I’m looking forward to seeing what Marco thinks...
Post by: brap2 on November 13, 2018, 05:51:15 PM
Post by: Robioto on November 13, 2018, 06:10:02 PM
Withdrawn...
Post by: TheRam on November 13, 2018, 06:27:48 PM
Not fit enough for portugal?
Injured.
Post by: Shogun on November 13, 2018, 06:39:50 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 13, 2018, 07:29:06 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 13, 2018, 07:30:57 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 13, 2018, 07:43:35 PM
Post by: D15TIN on November 13, 2018, 09:55:31 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 13, 2018, 09:57:42 PM
Gomes will be fit for the Cardiff game - ive seen the quotes from the Portugal team - they said his fitness wasn't good enough so they've sent him back - he's likely just knackered from having played rarely - to playing 90 mins every week for us - he'll be ok theres no injury mentioned. Sigurdsson more of a worry.
Siggy is the kind of player who is most useful in unpicking the lock v. sides like Cardiff. Hopefully if out, then we will start Lookman and let Bernard play the 10(ish).
Post by: D15TIN on November 13, 2018, 10:01:08 PM
Siggy is the kind of player who is most useful in unpicking the lock v. sides like Cardiff. Hopefully if out, then we will start Lookman and let Bernard play the 10(ish).I think the same re lookman & bernard
Post by: Evertonian in NC on November 13, 2018, 10:10:54 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 26, 2018, 01:18:04 PM
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/everton-boss-marco-silva-reveals-15462160
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 26, 2018, 03:17:35 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 26, 2018, 03:48:36 PM
Just bought a signed photo of him, gonna put it on my bedroom roof
Sexy time
Post by: Bluedylan on November 26, 2018, 05:24:03 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 26, 2018, 05:56:11 PM
Everton made a great disbursement for Digne and Yerry Mina, by which it paid 50.4 million to Barça-20.2 by Digne and 30.2 by Yerry-, more 1.5 in variables for each one of them. Questioned by MD by these two more players André Gomes, ceded by Barça to the ' Toffees ', Brands explained that "We are very happy with all three. Yerry and André Gomes have been able to play less because they were injured, but they are back and have begun to prove their quality, just as they did before Digne, "he said.
Brands celebrated the first ownership of Yerry before the Chelsea, just before the stop of selections. "He made a big game before a level team like Chelsea, accustomed to playing in the champions and was recognized as MVP of the match. It is great news for Yerry and for us, "explained the Dutchman on the Colombian, who repeated in the eleven in the triumph of the ' toffee ' to Cardiff City.
The future of Andre Gomes, depending on him although André Gomes is ceded and Everton have no option of buying on him, Brands did not hide that he would like to have him in the future, although it is still soon. "The season just started. We are happy with André, but it will depend on him if he wants to stay with us or not, "Brands commented. On the Portuguese midfielder, who was elected MVP to Cardiff City in the crash this Saturday.
Post by: Toddacelli on November 29, 2018, 09:38:24 PM
Marcel Brands, sports Director of Everto N, this summer became the protagonist of the present day of Barça to sign three Barça players: Lucas Digne, Yerry Mina and André Gomes. Brands came last Friday to see live the Netherlands-France in the stadium of Kuip.
Everton made a great disbursement for Digne and Yerry Mina, by which it paid 50.4 million to Barça-20.2 by Digne and 30.2 by Yerry-, more 1.5 in variables for each one of them. Questioned by MD by these two more players André Gomes, ceded by Barça to the ' Toffees ', Brands explained that "We are very happy with all three. Yerry and André Gomes have been able to play less because they were injured, but they are back and have begun to prove their quality, just as they did before Digne, "he said.
Brands celebrated the first ownership of Yerry before the Chelsea, just before the stop of selections. "He made a big game before a level team like Chelsea, accustomed to playing in the champions and was recognized as MVP of the match. It is great news for Yerry and for us, "explained the Dutchman on the Colombian, who repeated in the eleven in the triumph of the ' toffee ' to Cardiff City.
The future of Andre Gomes, depending on him although André Gomes is ceded and Everton have no option of buying on him, Brands did not hide that he would like to have him in the future, although it is still soon. "The season just started. We are happy with André, but it will depend on him if he wants to stay with us or not, "Brands commented. On the Portuguese midfielder, who was elected MVP to Cardiff City in the crash this Saturday.
Love a poorly-translated sports report. Awesome! lolol
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 29, 2018, 09:43:46 PM
Love a poorly-translated sports report. Awesome! lololGoogle translate at its finest
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 29, 2018, 09:48:13 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on November 29, 2018, 09:56:50 PM
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but loloroco comments on page 2 are briliant
And let's not forget the stats lads ;)
Post by: brap2 on November 29, 2018, 10:13:28 PM
Great to watch though, very aesthetically pleasing and a beautiful dribbler. Hope we keep telling him to pass it into the box because currently he’s on course forrrr 1 chance created every 5 games. That’s fewer than gueye which is a very impressive level of Schneiderlinness.
I’d be very happy to keep him and he seems like a nice lad. But I hope we sign someone who is more creative from midfield in the summer.
Post by: gizzblue on November 29, 2018, 11:06:40 PM
Glad M&M don't have the same neg attitude as some of the kranks on here .
Come back Bogie and Realist all is forgiven lolol
Post by: TheRam on November 29, 2018, 11:16:10 PM
I’m enjoying watching him and his ability to move up the pitch with the ball is doing us a lot of favours at the moment - but still largely feel the same way as I did the other week tbh. Saying he ran the show against Cardiff, a game that we won 1-0 due to a rebound at home, doesn’t fill me with more confidence really.
Great to watch though, very aesthetically pleasing and a beautiful dribbler. Hope we keep telling him to pass it into the box because currently he’s on course forrrr 1 chance created every 5 games. That’s fewer than gueye which is a very impressive level of Schneiderlinness.
I’d be very happy to keep him and he seems like a nice lad. But I hope we sign someone who is more creative from midfield in the summer.
I’ll tell you now he would’ve created three clear cut chances at the weekend if Walcott and Bernard were on their toes.
Post by: brap2 on November 29, 2018, 11:17:39 PM
I’ll tell you now he would’ve created three clear cut chances at the weekend if Walcott and Bernard were on their toes.
Long may it continue.
Post by: Martip on November 29, 2018, 11:52:53 PM
I’m enjoying watching him and his ability to move up the pitch with the ball is doing us a lot of favours at the moment - but still largely feel the same way as I did the other week tbh. Saying he ran the show against Cardiff, a game that we won 1-0 due to a rebound at home, doesn’t fill me with more confidence really.TBH I think he is exactly what we need which has been shown in our recent upturn in form....I also thought he did run the show against Cardiff and not only pushed us forward but allowed our attacking players to do their jobs.
Great to watch though, very aesthetically pleasing and a beautiful dribbler. Hope we keep telling him to pass it into the box because currently he’s on course forrrr 1 chance created every 5 games. That’s fewer than gueye which is a very impressive level of Schneiderlinness.
I’d be very happy to keep him and he seems like a nice lad. But I hope we sign someone who is more creative from midfield in the summer.
He 'll be a stats flunk due to not many goals/assists, but it we considerthe additional chances our attacking players will get with his inclusion (forward thinking play, clever passes, ball retention) we 'll be a much better side.
In theory we have 4 attacking players ahead of him plus two relatively attacking full backs so the weight of creative responsibility shouldn't fall on his shoulders and anything he directly creates is a bonus for me.
Post by: Lxxx on November 30, 2018, 12:12:08 AM
TBH I think he is exactly what we need which has been shown in our recent upturn in form....I also thought he did run the show against Cardiff and not only pushed us forward but allowed our attacking players to do their jobs.
He 'll be a stats flunk due to not many goals/assists, but it we considerthe additional chances our attacking players will get with his inclusion (forward thinking play, clever passes, ball retention) we 'll be a much better side.
In theory we have 4 attacking players ahead of him plus two relatively attacking full backs so the weight of creative responsibility shouldn't fall on his shoulders and anything he directly creates is a bonus for me.
Lot of truth in this. His ability to manipulate the ball around and let the likes of Digne, Coleman, Sig etc...do their thing is what has made our play look a lot more fluid. There are far more pressing issues at the minute, like our wide players and their inability to trouble the scorers which is putting all the pressure on Sig and Richarlison.
Post by: Mick 1995 on November 30, 2018, 03:28:16 PM
I'm happy with that as long as 2 or more of the 4 in front of him are on form.
Post by: brap2 on November 30, 2018, 03:47:19 PM
He's the guy who will set up the assist.
I'm happy with that as long as 2 or more of the 4 in front of him are on form.
A nice ball around the corner but it looks like the the defender got in front of the attacker (richarlison?).
So he set up the...incomplete pass that set up the missed shot that rebounded for a finish.
Not to you know, pick hairs because it was a nice idea first time around the corner. Just not strictly true I don’t think.
Post by: TheRam on November 30, 2018, 03:49:57 PM
He’s playing a lot deeper than he normally would.
Post by: Mick 1995 on November 30, 2018, 04:01:40 PM
A nice ball around the corner but it looks like the the defender got in front of the attacker (richarlison?).
So he set up the...incomplete pass that set up the missed shot that rebounded for a finish.
Not to you know, pick hairs because it was a nice idea first time around the corner. Just not strictly true I don’t think.
I'm not commenting on 1 pass of 1 game. I'm talking about what i foresee his role to be.
Receive it off Gana.
Push forward 10/a dozen yards.
Lay it off to somebody to try and unpick the lock.
Criminally underrated position and role.
don't want to get anywhere near a stats argument again - but i've mentioned to you in the past i'm all for them for judging strikers, keepers and the ability to differentiate between hot-form/luck & actual class.
But roles like this are categorically not something that can be measured.
Unless, like in the NFL, there is a "rushing" stat. Which measures how far somebody travels with the ball.
Post by: brap2 on November 30, 2018, 04:05:49 PM
He shouldn’t be judged on the amount of chances he creates considering his role in the team.
He’s playing a lot deeper than he normally would.
shouldn’t be the main thing he’s judged on. But if you have a centre mid who is moving up the pitch and having the ball lots (which I love about him btw) and we are saying he’s a good passer, or we should sign him for god knows what millions - he should be contributing otherwise you can get better value for your money or he needs to improve in some areas.
Just as a guide to see where I’m coming from - he’s currently less creative than Morgan Schneiderlin has ever been in any season of his career apparently.
It’s fine to like a player and enjoy watching him, it’s fine to want better, it’s fine to be patient.
I know some will think I’m just piss boiling so I can can’t state this enough - one of the first names on the team sheet for me, but I still have some reservations.
Post by: brap2 on November 30, 2018, 04:09:54 PM
I'm not commenting on 1 pass of 1 game. I'm talking about what i foresee his role to be.
Receive it off Gana.
Push forward 10/a dozen yards.
Lay it off to somebody to try and unpick the lock.
Criminally underrated position and role.
don't want to get anywhere near a stats argument again - but i've mentioned to you in the past i'm all for them for judging strikers, keepers and the ability to differentiate between hot-form/luck & actual class.
But roles like this are categorically not something that can be measured.
Unless, like in the NFL, there is a "rushing" stat. Which measures how far somebody travels with the ball.
Ohh I understand.
Apologies, yeah he is about just above league average for what you would call build up - possessions with the ball that end in a key pass (good because in general our CM’s have been shit at this).
There’s also deep progressions (rushing stat you mention), but I haven’t seen a graph for that since he’s been playing. I would imagine he does quite well tbh because he’s a better dribbler than gueye and he is finding digne regularly on the left.
Also just to move away from stats for a mo and talk about like what we see or whatever - I like him, I just hope for more than Morgan Schneiderlin with a nice aesthetic style and a good feint, and so should you.
Ps. Take issue with the categorically not measurable claim but I know where you’re coming from.
Post by: Mick 1995 on November 30, 2018, 04:21:05 PM
I do think we love him so much because he is so much better at this deep progression (cheers for pointing me towards that) than anything we've had there for a while.
I'm happy with 'above average' there for the time being due to that.
It's unreal how many of our "danger" positions have been filled in by solid (or really good) options.
Left back, central defence, central midfield and attacking width. All rectified in one window.
Sort out up-top and add a touch of depth next year. Then we can look around and upgrade these 'better than average' options.
Post by: brap2 on November 30, 2018, 04:30:38 PM
yeah, deffo just a difference of opinion we can glide over that last bit.
I do think we love him so much because he is so much better at this deep progression (cheers for pointing me towards that) than anything we've had there for a while.
I'm happy with 'above average' there for the time being due to that.
It's unreal how many of our "danger" positions have been filled in by solid (or really good) options.
Left back, central defence, central midfield and attacking width. All rectified in one window.
Sort out up-top and add a touch of depth next year. Then we can look around and upgrade these 'better than average' options.
Yeah 100% and in terms of moving with the ball he’s night and day compared to what we’ve had. And despite the relative safety of his passing it’s still been good quality.
It’s almost unbelievable how the side looks compared to say the derby last year. Playing what looked like Wayne Rooney’s da as a centre mid etc.
I might be wrong about the deep progressions btw, it might be like ball progressions or something, I’ve definitely seen some work on it earlier in the season however.
Post by: Martip on November 30, 2018, 04:56:53 PM
I see his role in our team atm as a deep lying midfielder as almost a direct alternative to the ineffectual Morgan.....he is more effective and forward thinking but constantly creating isn't his role surely although I think he can pitch in.
I have been impressed with his defensive positioning though and he seems a very intelligent player rather than our usual bull in a China shop.
I also wouldn't pay too much attention to the stats at the moment anyway as he's only played a handful of games after a long injury lay off and 2 of those have been away to Chelsea and utd where even top midfielders would struggle to register great figures.
I know most conversations we have on the forum revert back to stats but they really dont tell the full story ..... I mean let's take Iniesta for example his stats for Barcelona are awful on paper in terms of chances created, assists and goals despite having the best players in the world around him- he was still regarded as one of the best midfielders around
Post by: brap2 on November 30, 2018, 05:34:02 PM
But in terms of what’s measured now a days, even til 16/17 he was blowing away league average midfield performances by orders of magnitudes like. 90th percentile for passing ability, build up, dribbling.
Helps he’s got Messi like, but worth remembering that young Andre was bought to be the successor to iniesta. His profile from that period don’t make great reading, and he had a really tough time there.
Post by: Bluedylan on November 30, 2018, 07:31:18 PM
The iniesta thing is interesting, because no he didn’t typically score or assist a lot, so by traditional metrics you could say there’s an argument for it....
But in terms of what’s measured now a days, even til 16/17 he was blowing away league average midfield performances by orders of magnitudes like. 90th percentile for passing ability, build up, dribbling.
Helps he’s got Messi like, but worth remembering that young Andre was bought to be the successor to iniesta. His profile from that period don’t make great reading, and he had a really tough time there.
Not being intentionally facetious but are there are metrics by which we can measure his ability to receive the ball on either foot, marked or not marked, in very tight defensive areas and then start the play off with a lovely pass into feet, because he does that fucking beautifully. And it's not purely aesthetically pleasing, it's hugely constructive to facilitate the way we're playing and succeeding in games.
Post by: Martip on November 30, 2018, 07:51:32 PM
Post by: brap2 on November 30, 2018, 07:56:54 PM
Not being intentionally facetious but are there are metrics by which we can measure his ability to receive the ball on either foot, marked or not marked, in very tight defensive areas and then start the play off with a lovely pass into feet, because he does that fucking beautifully. And it's not purely aesthetically pleasing, it's hugely constructive to facilitate the way we're playing and succeeding in games.
Haven’t a scoob to be honest but I strongly agree.
Having a composed, technically good player who is press resistant and looks for the ball has been a massive breath of fresh air.
Post by: hannu on November 30, 2018, 08:13:42 PM
he has pulled off some beautiful passes diagonally in between the cb and fb to find a player in a great position to cross
Post by: Lxxx on November 30, 2018, 08:27:52 PM
Post by: Sir Stealth on November 30, 2018, 09:16:11 PM
I sometimes take my contact lenses out and look at myself in the mirror with the Andre Gomes shirt on. I've got dark hair and a beard so for a second or so I am Andre Gomes
Post by: Polledreng on November 30, 2018, 09:19:45 PM
I got his name on my shirt. This is totally unacceptable for a 35 year old man but I just love himIf only i was 35 again I wouldn't mind looking like Tony Hibbert
I sometimes take my contact lenses out and look at myself in the mirror with the Andre Gomes shirt on. I've got dark hair and a beard so for a second or so I am Andre Gomes
Post by: Brownie on November 30, 2018, 09:29:55 PM
I got his name on my shirt. This is totally unacceptable for a 35 year old man but I just love him
I sometimes take my contact lenses out and look at myself in the mirror with the Andre Gomes shirt on. I've got dark hair and a beard so for a second or so I am Andre Gomes
So have I and I'm 38
Post by: TheRam on November 30, 2018, 11:09:49 PM
Post by: Macca77 on November 30, 2018, 11:11:30 PM
Being reported that we can pay 70mil for Ndombele but if it doesn’t come off we’ll get Gomes.
We're gonna ruin the transfer window again aren't we, fuck sake Everton!
Post by: Brownie on November 30, 2018, 11:41:35 PM
Being reported that we can pay 70mil for Ndombele but if it doesn’t come off we’ll get Gomes.
Cant we have both?
Post by: brap2 on November 30, 2018, 11:42:38 PM
Being reported that we can pay 70mil for Ndombele but if it doesn’t come off we’ll get Gomes.
Must be playing Barca here because there will be a list as long as your arm after tongy.
Post by: TheRam on November 30, 2018, 11:42:57 PM
Cant we have both?
Not sure both would work, especially if we manage to keep Gana.
Post by: TheRam on November 30, 2018, 11:47:16 PM
Must be playing Barca here because there will be a list as long as your arm after tongy.
He’s the perfect Fernandinho replacement like but I think we stand a good chance of getting him.
Come to us lad, spend three years here then when your hitting your prime make the big move.
Players like this get lost amongst the shuffle hitting the elite clubs too early.
Post by: Brownie on November 30, 2018, 11:50:06 PM
Not sure both would work, especially if we manage to keep Gana.
I know but I love Gomes.
Post by: Shogun on December 01, 2018, 12:10:18 AM
Evertonians will go on and on about him for years.
@Gash (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=14) will moan about these people constantly and say he was shit.
Post by: Bally on December 01, 2018, 12:14:09 AM
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Post by: Gash on December 01, 2018, 12:45:00 AM
Gomes will leave after his loan.
Evertonians will go on and on about him for years.
@Gash (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=14) will moan about these people constantly and say he was shit.
Nah, I like him, he's no Manuel Fernandes. :)
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on December 01, 2018, 01:08:16 AM
Post by: NomadskiEFC on December 04, 2018, 07:52:09 PM
Post by: MmmblueBernard on December 04, 2018, 08:40:48 PM
Post by: TheRam on December 05, 2018, 05:19:13 AM
More passes, forward passes, interceptions, blocks, tackles, chances created etc.
Interesting that.
Post by: Ross on December 05, 2018, 06:38:23 AM
Post by: Alanvideo on December 05, 2018, 02:05:43 PM
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/everton-believe-andre-gomes-wants-to-convert-loan-deal-to-permanent-contract-z3h825g5x
Post by: brap2 on December 05, 2018, 02:09:14 PM
Lads, Tom Davies beats him all ends up in the stats.
More passes, forward passes, interceptions, blocks, tackles, chances created etc.
Interesting that.
Staying out of this one.
Post by: Waltzer on December 05, 2018, 03:02:36 PM
Lads, Tom Davies beats him all ends up in the stats.
More passes, forward passes, interceptions, blocks, tackles, chances created etc.
Interesting that.
And never before has the saying that stats can be misleading been more true.
Post by: TheRam on December 05, 2018, 03:08:38 PM
And never before has the saying that stats can be misleading been more true.
Why though?
I think it proves Tom Davies is a lot better than people give him credit for and offers a lot to the team
And while Gomes has been good, it is a valid critique to say he doesn’t impact the game as much as he probably should.
I would still much has Gomes in the team
than Davies though.
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on December 05, 2018, 03:13:05 PM
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 05, 2018, 03:43:03 PM
I’m enjoying watching him and his ability to move up the pitch with the ball is doing us a lot of favours at the moment - but still largely feel the same way as I did the other week tbh. Saying he ran the show against Cardiff, a game that we won 1-0 due to a rebound at home, doesn’t fill me with more confidence really.
Great to watch though, very aesthetically pleasing and a beautiful dribbler. Hope we keep telling him to pass it into the box because currently he’s on course forrrr 1 chance created every 5 games. That’s fewer than gueye which is a very impressive level of Schneiderlinness.
I’d be very happy to keep him and he seems like a nice lad. But I hope we sign someone who is more creative from midfield in the summer.
Mate there’s more to chance creation than passing a ball directly into the feet of someone who takes a shot at goal, or whatever the measure is for however those stats are measured.
Post by: TheRam on December 05, 2018, 03:46:53 PM
Mate there’s more to chance creation than passing a ball directly into the feet of someone who takes a shot at goal, or whatever the measure is for however those stats are measured.
It’s the three players infront of him that should be judged on chance creation anyway.
Post by: D15TIN on December 05, 2018, 03:58:31 PM
Lads, Tom Davies beats him all ends up in the stats.that just proves stats don't mean everthing haha
More passes, forward passes, interceptions, blocks, tackles, chances created etc.
Interesting that.
Post by: Macca77 on December 05, 2018, 04:00:40 PM
Post by: Alanvideo on December 05, 2018, 04:01:24 PM
that just proves stats don't mean everthing haha................research shows that 73.6% of stats are meaningless. :bonk:
Post by: Audrey Horne on December 05, 2018, 04:01:25 PM
Why though?
I think it proves Tom Davies is a lot better than people give him credit for and offers a lot to the team
And while Gomes has been good, it is a valid critique to say he doesn’t impact the game as much as he probably should.
I would still much has Gomes in the team
than Davies though.
Do we also take into account he games Gomes has been involved in? United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool....compared to the 'lesser' teams Davies has played in, and hence, easier games to influence?
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on December 05, 2018, 04:03:31 PM
Post by: Waltzer on December 05, 2018, 04:27:50 PM
Why though?
I think it proves Tom Davies is a lot better than people give him credit for and offers a lot to the team
And while Gomes has been good, it is a valid critique to say he doesn’t impact the game as much as he probably should.
I would still much has Gomes in the team
than Davies though.
I dont think Davies is a bad player, I think he could learn a lot from Gomes though and hopefully he will. Gomes is far more composed and what the stats dont tell you are the quality of those stats, Davies has made more of everything, but were his higher tackles rate due to him chasing the ball, whereas Gomes made 3 critical game challenges cause he was in the right place, were Davies passes forward to anyone, or were they the right option at the time etc etc, i dont know? From watching the games Gomes appears to be the far superior player and thats why I think the stats can be really misleading.
Post by: gizzblue on December 05, 2018, 04:30:41 PM
Do we also take into account he games Gomes has been involved in? United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool....compared to the 'lesser' teams Davies has played in, and hence, easier games to influence?
And he was never rushed ,even against these teams .
Hope Tom learns loads from this .
Post by: brap2 on December 05, 2018, 04:35:42 PM
Don’t think the most ardent statsmachine would want Tom in the side over Andre.
Neither have played 1000 mins yet this season, let alone a full season.
Rightly pointed out, Gomes has played against top teams. But if you were a side looking for very specific stuff, e.g a player who passes forward a lot, it shows how stats are a better gauge than the eye, because to the eye you would say gomes blows Tom off the park at that, but like it or not a good deal of that opinion boils down to perception and unconscious bias.
Stats never tell the full story however and you would be an idiot to scout purely off a spreadsheet, but I am always greatly entertained by these random fellas off the internet who are like - I’ve not looked into it, I’m not going to look into it, I barely even really understand it, but this is BULLSHIT.
Post by: brap2 on December 05, 2018, 04:42:03 PM
Mate there’s more to chance creation than passing a ball directly into the feet of someone who takes a shot at goal, or whatever the measure is for however those stats are measured.
I strongly agree. But passing the ball to a player that can take a shot is you know, pretty arguably the most straight forward and importantly element of creating a chance innit. I mean I know movement and dragging players away and being calm in posession and the playing the lads that plays the player who plays the pass is all extremely important but - I mean if he’s that good at passing the ball and he’s playing in the same position and he’s playing in a better side and we’re in better form then - he should be better than Morgan Schneiderlin or Idrissa Gueye at this very simplistic measurement eventually right? Is that wrong to want that? Play more passes into the box?
Fact is the side in general doesn’t have many players who do that. It’s one of the most straight forward things in football I’d say and I don’t think you need to count them in decimal points per 90 or visualise it on a screen - do you have players who can create a chance during open play? Do you have players who can create GOOD chances during open play?
The more the better.
Post by: Mick 1995 on December 05, 2018, 04:45:14 PM
Post by: TheRam on December 05, 2018, 04:46:42 PM
Do we also take into account he games Gomes has been involved in? United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool....compared to the 'lesser' teams Davies has played in, and hence, easier games to influence?
That’s got to be taken into account like.
Would like to see them both in the side at one point myself, but that’s probably involves dropping Gana or Sigurdsson and you can’t be doing that.
Post by: brap2 on December 05, 2018, 04:48:52 PM
yeah, the figures at the moment don't deter from Gomes, it just shows that Davies has been better than a lot of swivel-eyed loons think.
If Davies was able to ride tackles out and create separation between him and the tackler, then he would be a much better rated player and in general be easier to play him. He’s quite small though and not technically that good, while Gomes is a unit and has fantastic feet.
Would he be better playing it quicker more sometimes? Probably yeah.
Does it look impressive when he rides out tackles and comes out with the ball looking like he’s walking the shop for his paper? Certainly bloody does.
Post by: Waltzer on December 05, 2018, 05:33:29 PM
Post by: brap2 on December 05, 2018, 05:38:25 PM
Despite saying Davies isnt too bad you also have to see how highly he is regarded from outside Goodison. In an age where if you're English, have played in the Premiership (or not) you get called up for England he is still yet to do so, whereas players like Winks, RLC, Maddison, Sancho, Mount have all been called up despite playing significantly less than Davies in the top flight, sadly there is probably a reason for this.
Especially since he got picked up for senior training when he was first breaking through.
England’s centre mid is pretty shocking, and you’d have to say he’s miles away from a call up.
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on December 05, 2018, 05:41:21 PM
Just looking at their midfielders: Rakitic, Busquets, Suarez, Coutinho, Arthur, Rafinha, Samper, Vidal, Alena. No wonder Gomes wanted to get more play-time.
/prods Barca for Malcom and Arthur, to go with our Henry and Bernard. I wonder if United want shut of Fred too :D
Post by: Gary1878 on December 05, 2018, 05:56:33 PM
That doesn't demean Davies in anyway saying that, as I think he will be a cracking player. He is only 20 years old and has 15 years of football ahead of him, whereas Gomes is approaching his prime at 25 years old, and has far more experience.
Having Gomes will force Davies to up his game, and playing with better players will raise his standards.
The size of the impact that Gomes has had can be measured in the fact that I think he is now in the top 5 most important players we have.
Big well done to Brands and Silva.
Post by: Robber Rodwell on December 05, 2018, 06:10:32 PM
World class player. On a side note wheee is Morgan these days??
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 05, 2018, 06:14:49 PM
I strongly agree. But passing the ball to a player that can take a shot is you know, pretty arguably the most straight forward and importantly element of creating a chance innit. I mean I know movement and dragging players away and being calm in posession and the playing the lads that plays the player who plays the pass is all extremely important but - I mean if he’s that good at passing the ball and he’s playing in the same position and he’s playing in a better side and we’re in better form then - he should be better than Morgan Schneiderlin or Idrissa Gueye at this very simplistic measurement eventually right? Is that wrong to want that? Play more passes into the box?
Fact is the side in general doesn’t have many players who do that. It’s one of the most straight forward things in football I’d say and I don’t think you need to count them in decimal points per 90 or visualise it on a screen - do you have players who can create a chance during open play? Do you have players who can create GOOD chances during open play?
The more the better.
Yeah all fair points (and now realise I replied to your comment before reading what followed and so am in some sense rehashing what's already been discussed).
Personally though think this type of analysis ignores things like who Gomes has around him, where he's been told to play and other instructions he's been given. Maybe you can tell me but I'd imagine the stats showing we're trying to create a lot more down the wings and cut/cross in, rather than passing through the middle.
I do think you're picking up on one area where you could say Gomes isn't showing anything exceptional and that's the threaded, creative forward pass that only a Barry or a Rooney has the vision to see and play consistently. I think it's too early to say whether he has that in the tank. It could simply be a case of him taking more chances as he gets more comfortable with the PL so we'll see more soon. Or it could be Silva telling him don't you give the fucking ball away when you've got 4-6 players bombing ahead of you. Or that Sigg or RIcharlison aren't making the right runs in the middle into space for him to pass it to. Dunno, I'd have to pay more attention.
Post by: brap2 on December 05, 2018, 06:24:07 PM
Yeah all fair points (and now realise I replied to your comment before reading what followed and so am in some sense rehashing what's already been discussed).
Personally though think this type of analysis ignores things like who Gomes has around him, where he's been told to play and other instructions he's been given. Maybe you can tell me but I'd imagine the stats showing we're trying to create a lot more down the wings and cut/cross in, rather than passing through the middle.
I do think you're picking up on one area where you could say Gomes isn't showing anything exceptional and that's the threaded, creative forward pass that only a Barry or a Rooney has the vision to see and play consistently. I think it's too early to say whether he has that in the tank. It could simply be a case of him taking more chances as he gets more comfortable with the PL so we'll see more soon. Or it could be Silva telling him don't you give the fucking ball away when you've got 4-6 players bombing ahead of you. Or that Sigg or RIcharlison aren't making the right runs in the middle into space for him to pass it to. Dunno, I'd have to pay more attention.
Nah it’s all fair, I’m being very black and white when there’s no need to be particularly. We’re all enjoying watching him and so we should, he’s looking superb at the minute.
You are right about the wide build up. Definitely a feature of silva’s football.
Post by: Brownie on December 05, 2018, 07:14:23 PM
Watching Gomes on the ball is great. He can somehow slow the game down and keep full control of the ball no matter how frenetic the match is.
World class player. On a side note wheee is Morgan these days??
Having seen his wife I would imagine shacked up at home
Post by: .Matty on December 05, 2018, 07:25:29 PM
Post by: kramer0 on December 05, 2018, 09:44:45 PM
You are right about the wide build up. Definitely a feature of silva’s football.
Are we sure that that's a choice?
Post by: brap2 on December 05, 2018, 09:57:02 PM
Are we sure that that's a choice?
Choice or not, it’s a feature.
Post by: kramer0 on December 05, 2018, 09:58:16 PM
Choice or not, it’s a feature.
Touché.
Post by: GLewis on December 06, 2018, 12:09:57 AM
Choice or not, it’s a feature.
Think it’s a choice.
Players seem to be encouraged to cross the ball rather than just go back all the time.
Also in preseason when it was more 433, the wider CMs were overloading in the wing areas rather than funnelling through the middle.
Post by: Shogun on December 06, 2018, 12:26:22 AM
Post by: Goaljira on December 06, 2018, 01:05:05 AM
Why though?
I think it proves Tom Davies is a lot better than people give him credit for and offers a lot to the team
And while Gomes has been good, it is a valid critique to say he doesn’t impact the game as much as he probably should.
I would still much has Gomes in the team
than Davies though.
Id like to see how theyd fare as a partnership.
Post by: kramer0 on December 06, 2018, 03:19:19 AM
@kramer0 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) come on lad, accept you were wrong like Brap has.
He's made us better. I was wrong about that.
I still don't think we should pay what we're going to have to pay to make it permanent, with the caveat that he could continue to improve.
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 04:48:03 AM
@kramer0 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=4360) come on lad, accept you were wrong like Brap has.
I absolutely have not.
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 04:50:49 AM
Think it’s a choice.
Players seem to be encouraged to cross the ball rather than just go back all the time.
Also in preseason when it was more 433, the wider CMs were overloading in the wing areas rather than funnelling through the middle.
Not a huge fan considering the lack of natural striker.
Also why were we not pressing tonight?
We had 52 crosses tonight, kin hell!
My kingdom for a midfielder who can create a goal scoring chance from open play, rather than take ten touches then pass it to gueye.
Post by: Thomas on December 06, 2018, 07:10:51 AM
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Post by: Thomas on December 06, 2018, 07:11:44 AM
He's made us better. I was wrong about that.Tbf to Kramer I thought this the other day that if he is going to cost a bomb + The fact we need to improve on Gana that's a lot for a new midfield especially when we also need a new CF
I still don't think we should pay what we're going to have to pay to make it permanent, with the caveat that he could continue to improve.
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Post by: Thomas on December 06, 2018, 07:13:17 AM
Why though?This is basically Tom Davies denial syndrome.
I think it proves Tom Davies is a lot better than people give him credit for and offers a lot to the team
And while Gomes has been good, it is a valid critique to say he doesn't impact the game as much as he probably should.
I would still much has Gomes in the team
than Davies though.
Gomes has proven the difference between a rookie and someone who actually can play football let alone CM.
Gomes reminds me a little of Arteta and we have been crying our for that kind of player at CM for years.
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Post by: Thomas on December 06, 2018, 07:15:05 AM
And never before has the saying that stats can be misleading been more true.It's shit like this that annoys me. People actually believing Tom Davies is anywhere near a good player when in about 3 years he will end up at Middlesbrough.
I was more enthusiastic about James Vaughan and Jack Rodwell when they where coming through and that's saying something.
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Post by: kramer0 on December 06, 2018, 08:01:57 AM
Post by: Ramjam on December 06, 2018, 08:30:17 AM
Post by: GLewis on December 06, 2018, 01:02:34 PM
Not a huge fan considering the lack of natural striker.
Also why were we not pressing tonight?
My kingdom for a midfielder who can create a goal scoring chance from open play, rather than take ten touches then pass it to gueye.
A) I’d suppose the idea is more of the crosses for Sig and Tosun chances than longer ones slung in.
And we do like a cross, historically.
B) combination of being tired and when the other team plays 3 CBs it’s easier to shuffle the ball sideways. Our pressing seems more on angles rather than just mad running and it seemed that we couldn’t cut them off as well
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 02:37:28 PM
Think that game was a pretty good example of why we need more creativity from open play.
Post by: Macca77 on December 06, 2018, 02:47:54 PM
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on December 06, 2018, 02:55:03 PM
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 03:04:25 PM
Side in general disappointing but not surprising - we struggle to break teams down from open play.
Gomes good first half, but in general the game highlighted the issue of our lack of progressive passers.
Having a nice tidy midfielder who can turn their striker three times then play it sideways to gueye doesn’t help all that much in those games.
Post by: TheRam on December 06, 2018, 03:21:44 PM
Motm for me probably richarlison, worked hard and took his goal well.
Side in general disappointing but not surprising - we struggle to break teams down from open play.
Gomes good first half, but in general the game highlighted the issue of our lack of progressive passers.
Having a nice tidy midfielder who can turn their striker three times then play it sideways to gueye doesn’t help all that much in those games.
You’re trying too hard now.
He was the best player on the park by an absolute fucking mile.
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 03:33:38 PM
You’re trying too hard now.
He was the best player on the park by an absolute fucking mile.
I don’t have anything add really other than to repeat that last night was a good example of why we need more progressive passers in midfield.
Once again your cm ‘runs the show’ and you fail to create meaningful chances against a bottom half side.
Maybe a striker who makes good runs will help and I just need to accept Gomes is a good, tidy 6 with a conservative passing range who can get up the pitch well.
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on December 06, 2018, 03:41:37 PM
Post by: Gary1878 on December 06, 2018, 03:51:29 PM
Post by: Lxxx on December 06, 2018, 03:55:02 PM
I disagree he's just a nice tidy player, I think he has more in his locker but I just don't think we have the players ahead of him that could make him play a more expansive game.
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 03:58:46 PM
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on December 06, 2018, 04:00:02 PM
Surely Brands et al have got their eyes on someone in January? Our ITKs will have to do some sniffing....
Post by: Macca77 on December 06, 2018, 04:01:56 PM
Don’t get me started on Sig!
Our best player so far this season, had an off day yesterday, like most of them
Post by: Audrey Horne on December 06, 2018, 04:04:32 PM
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 04:09:22 PM
I haven’t even directly criticised him! Just on last nights showing, which we know already, we don’t have enough creativity in midfield.
Post by: TheRam on December 06, 2018, 04:10:32 PM
What have I said that’s so wrong? Mad mentality this you know.
I haven’t even directly criticised him! Just on last nights showing, which we know already, we don’t have enough creativity in midfield.
That’s true, but there were four other midfielders on the pitch and you seem to be putting all the blame on Gomes, when he was actually the most progressive player on the park.
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 04:26:56 PM
That’s true, but there were four other midfielders on the pitch and you seem to be putting all the blame on Gomes, when he was actually the most progressive player on the park.
Because he’s the one we’re considering spending 30m+ on!
Sigurdsson I’ve made my feelings clear on.
Tosun I’ve made my feelings clear on.
Lookman has a bad game and the case for starting Walcott became a bit clearer imo.
Post by: Martip on December 06, 2018, 04:30:22 PM
Post by: Macca77 on December 06, 2018, 04:32:57 PM
Post by: TheRam on December 06, 2018, 05:13:08 PM
Because he’s the one we’re considering spending 30m+ on!
Sigurdsson I’ve made my feelings clear on.
Tosun I’ve made my feelings clear on.
Lookman has a bad game and the case for starting Walcott became a bit clearer imo.
But he has so much more to offer in other aspects of his game.
You really watched him last night and came away thinking he’s not progressive enough?
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 07:05:44 PM
But he has so much more to offer in other aspects of his game.
You really watched him last night and came away thinking he’s not progressive enough?
I thought the side in general is not progressive enough yeah. Bad at breaking down a low block and relying on smashing crosses in.
He’s our main cm tasked with driving forward and setting up attacks.
I think he’ll work well in a counter attacking side but when we’re dominating the ball at home, it’s a war of attrition. Could just as easily be in the silva tactics thread.
I honestly feel last nights game is interesting viewed through the prism of the convo you started actually - he’s tasty but is he progressive enough with the ball?
Going to be honest, the thing that’s followed him around his career so far is that he flatters to deceive. I think it’s a BIT unfair, but if we’re talking about spending big money on a peak age CM...what do you need him to do in this side?
Post by: Trowel on December 06, 2018, 07:16:39 PM
You wouldn't criticise the Hermes sorting office because their delivery men have left your parcel in the hedge. Again.
Post by: di_guyo on December 06, 2018, 07:45:16 PM
Siggy, as good as he has been, is a goalscorer...not quite got what it takes to break a solid backline like a more traditional number 10. In games like that, you're looking to him for that 25 yarder...otherwise, you need more creativity in there. Doesn't help him either when those around him aren't making great runs either though.
Post by: Bluedylan on December 06, 2018, 08:02:09 PM
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 08:06:06 PM
If you think my motivations are anything other than wanting the best for Everton fc then I’ve wasted a great deal of time on here.
Post by: Lxxx on December 06, 2018, 08:08:07 PM
We're really poor in general at this and only really have an rare worldie from Sig to show for it whereas we need to be varying our efforts at goal, if we don't have a natural goalscorer in the team.
Post by: van der Meyde on December 06, 2018, 08:27:53 PM
I’ll try not to contribute to this thread for a bit then, honestly thought last night was interesting but I’m clearly flogging a dead horse and doing peoples heads in and I’ve been on here far too long to want to be Milky.Think you're on the money with him, to be honest.
If you think my motivations are anything other than wanting the best for Everton fc then I’ve wasted a great deal of time on here.
We haven't had a player like him for a while now, and we've desperately needed somebody who can pass the ball, so he's a breath of fresh air. But like fuck would I pay £40m+ for him.
Right now at least anyway. He's outrageously talented, so there's a lot of room for improvement.
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on December 06, 2018, 08:37:03 PM
"we've desperately needed somebody who can pass the ball, so he's a breath of fresh air."
"He's outrageously talented"
Whether it costs the equivalent of us losing Schneiderlin and Macarthy and one or two dead wooders, then fair enough, we should do it. Obviously we need to spend money on a striker, but if we can get Gomes, then it would be great business. The VAST majority of us like him, compared to what dross we have had/currently have, so hopefully they can clinch him, although I think there will be a lot of other "bigger" clubs in for him.
Post by: Bluedylan on December 06, 2018, 08:38:04 PM
I’ll try not to contribute to this thread for a bit then, honestly thought last night was interesting but I’m clearly flogging a dead horse and doing peoples heads in and I’ve been on here far too long to want to be Milky.
If you think my motivations are anything other than wanting the best for Everton fc then I’ve wasted a great deal of time on here.
Nah, do what you want. It's just that you've made your opinion known, it seems like a lot of people disagree (including neutrals and opposition) but then you just keep reiterating the same thing over and over, and then you wait for us to have a bad game like last night, and then you're straight on the case YET again.
And then stuff like 'don't get me started on x'. This might be extremely rich coming from me, but how much weight do you think your opinion carries? That does come across as very self-important, like we all need to be waiting to hear what brap's thoughts are on a given player.
No doubt that you want the best for Everton. I can also be a bit arrogant and have been accused of loving the sound of my own voice, and I get called out on it sometimes. Fair enough. It won't stop me posting but I might slightly alter the tone of my comments and take it on board.
End of the day mate, we all know there are problems in the side. We're a few months into a new setup. What did you expect? If you'd said we'd be 6th having played Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea and the shite away, by the start of December, would any of us not have taken that? We're doing well. We've had a few setbacks, but it's going the right way, and no reason not to think we'll improve further in coming transfer windows.
Post by: brap2 on December 06, 2018, 08:41:10 PM
Nah, do what you want. It's just that you've made your opinion known, it seems like a lot of people disagree (including neutrals and opposition) but then you just keep reiterating the same thing over and over, and then you wait for us to have a bad game like last night, and then you're straight on the case YET again.
And then stuff like 'don't get me started on x'. This might be extremely rich coming from me, but how much weight do you think your opinion carries? That does come across as very self-important, like we all need to be waiting to hear what brap's thoughts are on a given player.
No doubt that you want the best for Everton. I can also be a bit arrogant and have been accused of loving the sound of my own voice, and I get called out on it sometimes. Fair enough. It won't stop me posting but I might slightly alter the tone of my comments and take it on board.
End of the day mate, we all know there are problems in the side. We're a few months into a new setup. What did you expect? If you'd said we'd be 6th having played Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea and the shite away, by the start of December, would any of us not have taken that? We're doing well. We've had a few setbacks, but it's going the right way, and no reason not to think we'll improve further in coming transfer windows.
No worries I get it.
Post by: TheRam on December 06, 2018, 09:14:22 PM
Do really like him though and any issues in the midfield are with the two midfielders around him in Gana and Sigurdsson.
Post by: kramer0 on December 06, 2018, 09:31:57 PM
I’ll try not to contribute to this thread for a bit then, honestly thought last night was interesting but I’m clearly flogging a dead horse and doing peoples heads in and I’ve been on here far too long to want to be Milky.
If you think my motivations are anything other than wanting the best for Everton fc then I’ve wasted a great deal of time on here.
I generally agree with you too.
He's a pretty good player and one that we've needed, not a can't-miss player that we absolutely have to add to our midfield permanently.
Obviously, he has the raw tools to be something special but at some point before we consider buying him, he has to actually perform at that level, not just hint at the possibility of it.
Post by: kramer0 on December 06, 2018, 09:39:09 PM
Do really like him though and any issues in the midfield are with the two midfielders around him in Gana and Sigurdsson.
That's fair. Gana's limited passing certainly puts a burden on the other deep midfielder and Sigurdsson plays more like a forward than a playmaker.
For whatever it's worth, I thought the main mistake Silva made last night was starting Tosun, who's looked like an awkward fit with Sigurdsson all season. Our best form has come since we moved him out of the starting lineup for Richarlison (and Calvert-Lewin for a bit) and started using him as an attacking sub for when we're aggressively chasing a goal.
Post by: Bluedylan on December 06, 2018, 11:38:02 PM
Is that just a case of keeping hard at work at combinations, and we'll start to see other people weighing in more, or do we need to alter our method, or replace some of the players? Hard to know at this stage.
Post by: van der Meyde on December 06, 2018, 11:56:26 PM
As you say:I think everyone - even brap and kramer - likes him. I don't think there's anyone here who wouldn't say he's one of the first on the teamsheet.
"we've desperately needed somebody who can pass the ball, so he's a breath of fresh air."
"He's outrageously talented"
Whether it costs the equivalent of us losing Schneiderlin and Macarthy and one or two dead wooders, then fair enough, we should do it. Obviously we need to spend money on a striker, but if we can get Gomes, then it would be great business. The VAST majority of us like him, compared to what dross we have had/currently have, so hopefully they can clinch him, although I think there will be a lot of other "bigger" clubs in for him.
The main issue I've seen contested is just whether he's good value at what he's likely to cost. At the moment, I don't think he creates enough chances (or takes enough responsibility) to justify it.
Post by: Silas on December 07, 2018, 12:23:33 AM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on December 07, 2018, 01:03:33 AM
As Lxxx said, he was constantly looking forward and playing balls which broke the Newcastle lines, only for our front men to screw up with their touch.We wouldn't be creating much without him that's a cert..
You wouldn't criticise the Hermes sorting office because their delivery men have left your parcel in the hedge. Again.
Post by: Martip on December 07, 2018, 01:17:54 AM
I think we have an issue with a lack of productivity from the wings to be honest. Unless Richarlison plays out there they look good but don't create near enough. I think the centre is doing it's bit.That's the thing Bernard looks skilful with no end product/panics at key times and Walcott is off form. Annoying but I don't think we can blame other players for deficiencies in other areas of the team.
Post by: Lxxx on December 07, 2018, 03:18:41 AM
Post by: Waltzer on December 07, 2018, 03:38:13 AM
Jurgen Klopp could break a longstanding 18 year truce by making Andre Gomes the first player since Abel Xavier in 2002 to trade Everton for Liverpool, according to a report today from football outlet The Wistle.
Gomes, who is currently on a season-long loan spell from Barcelona, has been in fine form since his move to Goodison and Klopp has apparently been highly impressed by his performances, especially during Sunday’s Merseyside Derby.
Gomes, who is valued at £25m by parent club Barcelona, has no future at the Nou Camp upon the expiry of his loan and although making a switch to Everton permanent remains an option, Gomes is believed to be eyeing up a bigger challenge at one of the ‘Top 6 clubs’ in the Premier League.
Arsenal are thought to be Liverpool’s main competition in any bid to sign the 25-year-old and remain in the better position purely because Gomes is reluctant to sour the relationship he has already developed with Everton fans by moving to their bitter rivals
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Post by: Evertonian in NC on December 07, 2018, 03:51:27 AM
Post by: Gash on December 07, 2018, 04:24:17 AM
Think that "who is valued at £25m by parent club Barcelona" part makes the whole thing lazy/suspect.
Did they say that? I gave up reading at "according to a report today from football outlet The Wistle."
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on December 07, 2018, 04:35:38 AM
Think that "who is valued at £25m by parent club Barcelona" part makes the whole thing lazy/suspect.Wether the Liverpool bit might be shit stirring or not Gomes hasn't gone un noticed by a long chalk and it would be a step back to lose him, hopefully he's being assured players will be brought in to turn his creativity and graft into goals, dis heartening for him at the moment it must be to see build up after build up result in nothing like first half last night,, don't think it's just want of a centre forward either.....
Saying that with the quality of the last window think we can have some faith things will be in hand to address the shortfalls that still exist..
Post by: TheRam on December 07, 2018, 04:40:57 AM
Don’t stress. Enjoy him while he’s here and what happens, happens.
Post by: brap2 on December 07, 2018, 05:02:47 AM
If we don’t buy him brands will have somebody else just as good lined up.
Don’t stress. Enjoy him while he’s here and what happens, happens.
Really looking forward to January you know. Reckon there’s going to be a few mad signings.
Post by: Ramjam on December 07, 2018, 05:09:42 AM
Really looking forward to January you know. Reckon there's going to be a few mad signings.Yes, and the beauty about it is that no one will know anything about them till there done.
Post by: Mick 1995 on December 07, 2018, 03:02:21 PM
If one of them are Tosun, then i think we'd be bringing someone in.
Post by: TheRam on December 07, 2018, 03:08:04 PM
Really looking forward to January you know. Reckon there’s going to be a few mad signings.
Murmmerings of Josef Martinez.
Post by: brap2 on December 07, 2018, 03:17:19 PM
Murmmerings of Josef Martinez.
Saw that yeah, followed up by him stating he’ll ‘stay as long as they need him’ aka ‘I’m outta this bish’
Very hard to judge isn’t it but when I’ve watched him, literally one time, he was a pacey goal machine.
Post by: Macca77 on December 07, 2018, 04:04:28 PM
Post by: Waltzer on December 07, 2018, 04:10:41 PM
Be a few outgoings in January I reckon, we don't really need much do we, striker would be nice but it's won't be the end of the world if we don't sign anyone. Hopefully be on the phone to Barca to sort a deal for Gomes
Its difficult to say what we need, we're playing well but if we want to progress I think we need a new right winger, secure Gomes, a couple of strikers and sign up Zouma or get another CB. Its not all going to happen in Jan, but those would be the areas id focus on
Post by: Macca77 on December 07, 2018, 04:14:52 PM
Its difficult to say what we need, we're playing well but if we want to progress I think we need a new right winger, secure Gomes, a couple of strikers and sign up Zouma or get another CB. Its not all going to happen in Jan, but those would be the areas id focus on
Zouma has already said he will be returning to Chelsea in the summer
Post by: Lxxx on December 07, 2018, 04:17:03 PM
Post by: gizzblue on December 07, 2018, 04:44:48 PM
I don't think Zouma is worth going all out for anyway. Keane and Mina look a decent partnership and I'd be amazed if Brands can't find someone else for less than what Chelsea would want for him. He's also had a very bad injury and I'm not overly convinced he'll still be playing a high level, with pace, for long enough to justify the outlay.
Certainly think he's quick enough ...twice the other night he caught Atsu who's no slouch and dealt with him quite easily ....his defendeing is sound and he can also move forward with a ball ....think he would be a good buy myself .
Post by: Hawkandro on December 07, 2018, 04:59:24 PM
I don't think Zouma is worth going all out for anyway. Keane and Mina look a decent partnership and I'd be amazed if Brands can't find someone else for less than what Chelsea would want for him. He's also had a very bad injury and I'm not overly convinced he'll still be playing a high level, with pace, for long enough to justify the outlay.
Christensen is rumoured to be on the out at Chelsea, so could aim for him, although Barcelona are rumoured to be sniffing.
Post by: Toddacelli on December 07, 2018, 05:04:12 PM
I love him, think he's a fantastic footballer and a joy to watch - but also agree with @brap2 (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666)
I would just change the wording slightly from 'he should be more progressive' to 'we are not progressive enough as a team and so I am looking to players of great footballing ability, such as Gomes and bernard, to produce more for the team in this area'.
Is Gomes awesome? Yes.
Are we progressive? No.
Can Gomes do more for us in this area? We hope so.
I would pay up to £60M for him but it's probably that kind of accounting that got me declared bankrupt.
Post by: youngysenior on December 07, 2018, 05:12:38 PM
I generally agree with you too.What do you mean "raw tools"? The guy is absolute!! quality compared to those around him.
He's a pretty good player and one that we've needed, not a can't-miss player that we absolutely have to add to our midfield permanently.
Obviously, he has the raw tools to be something special but at some point before we consider buying him, he has to actually perform at that level, not just hint at the possibility of it.
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Post by: Ramjam on December 07, 2018, 05:51:48 PM
Post by: gizzblue on December 07, 2018, 06:19:40 PM
Need a right back, Coleman is on the decline and I don’t think we can gamble on him turning his form around, he’s going to start costing us points if he’s not replaced
He had a mare going forward the other night ....his defensive is still as good but he's not even trying to bomb on anymore or look for the pass that let's the winger get in behind ...too comfortable with only Kenny pushing him .
Post by: formerKHL on December 07, 2018, 06:53:06 PM
this "not progressive" argument falls flat on it's face for me....many times the other night he looked for the forward pass which wasn't on because Tosun isn't clever enough to make the creative run...so Gomes had to turn out and start again....when richarlison went upfront...quite frankly IMO he didn't wanna know...so again gomes looked for him but had to turn out....it was only better for the short time when Calvert Lewin came on...his movement gave Gomes the opportunity to play the ball he looked like he wanted to play.....
You can only play "progressive" passes if the players in front are you are capable......the progressive pass for me is the ball forward into space that creates a chance.....we haven't got the CF for that yet....
My other issue with this "not progressive" nonsense is simply we dont have the third man running that "progressive" football requires....siggurdson was well of it the other night....lookman was making runs and "drifting" inside and taking up the space for this to happen.....
like i said....pay the money get the deal done...end of...
Post by: Bluenose 91 on December 07, 2018, 06:53:33 PM
Got done by a simple shift to the side for that goal the other night.
Get the Wan-Bissaka fella in.
Post by: formerKHL on December 07, 2018, 06:57:13 PM
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 07, 2018, 06:59:26 PM
he cant be "progressive2 if he's defending ?
Think he means Coleman there, champ.
Post by: Alanvideo on December 07, 2018, 07:24:48 PM
He had a mare going forward the other night ....his defensive is still as good but he's not even trying to bomb on anymore or look for the pass that let's the winger get in behind ...too comfortable with only Kenny pushing him .................Coleman has been too predictable going down the right and not just this season. I like Kenny but his all round game is not really any better than Coleman at the moment.
Post by: formerKHL on December 07, 2018, 07:29:07 PM
Think he means Coleman there, champ.
DOH!! didn't read it properly..what a numpty
Post by: Polledreng on December 07, 2018, 07:35:54 PM
What do you mean "raw tools"? The guy is absolute!! quality compared to those around him.his stats mutch be lousy. Not sure Kramer looks at the game or just look at the stats After the game ;)
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Post by: Evertonian in NC on December 07, 2018, 07:37:34 PM
Deffo open to the idea of pulling a right-sided version of the Digne upgrade this summer, though.
Post by: formerKHL on December 07, 2018, 07:54:23 PM
he maybe now feels in the team set up he doesn't need to "bomb forward" as much with Walcott/lookman DCL etc up ahead of him....someone mentioned in an earlier post how lookman was taking his space and having to move inside and then basically went onto suggest it was colemans fault..?...the other night Newcastle were obviously looking and waiting to hit us on the break...the only time they managed that was when he "bombed forward"......maybe jusyt maybe he's now old enough to realise he doesn't need to.....
Post by: Lxxx on December 07, 2018, 11:03:21 PM
nowt wrong with coleman...people have short memories it appears.....year out with leg break ?...
he maybe now feels in the team set up he doesn't need to "bomb forward" as much with Walcott/lookman DCL etc up ahead of him....someone mentioned in an earlier post how lookman was taking his space and having to move inside and then basically went onto suggest it was colemans fault..?...the other night Newcastle were obviously looking and waiting to hit us on the break...the only time they managed that was when he "bombed forward"......maybe jusyt maybe he's now old enough to realise he doesn't need to.....
He does need to, that’s the whole point. The modern full back has to have the energy to get up and down, it’s no longer good enough to just be decent defensively.
It’s not his fault, age and injury have caught up with him, it seems. Unless something changes in what remains of the season and he recovers then it’s time for a change. It’s worked on the other side with Digne and Baines, great servants but they have all have a shelf life, some earlier than others due to injury and position.
Post by: sam of the south on December 08, 2018, 12:34:52 AM
he cant be "progressive2 if he's defending ?
Is Progressive2 down with @brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) 🤔
Post by: sam of the south on December 08, 2018, 12:42:18 AM
He used to cut out most crosses (which even Baines didn’t do in his heyday) as well as get up and down like a racehourse, but now he’s making a fair few mistimed challenges as well, which he also used to be solid on.
He’s amazing, and one of my favourite ever Everton players, but since his return he hasn’t convinced going forward or made me feel comfortable when he’s defending.
I’m hoping for a strong return to form from him, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the start of his decline.
Post by: brap2 on December 08, 2018, 01:22:21 AM
One of my favourite Everton players of the last 20 years easily. But it is what it is.
Post by: Martip on December 08, 2018, 01:35:22 AM
Aye I remember when I got called all sorts for saying we should look at a long term replacement for the wee man.Don't mind admitting I thought you were knee jerking at the time but to be fair from what I've seen spot on with that one. We 'll agree to disagree on our sexy midfielder though !
One of my favourite Everton players of the last 20 years easily. But it is what it is.
Post by: brap2 on December 08, 2018, 01:50:56 AM
Don't mind admitting I thought you were knee jerking at the time but to be fair from what I've seen spot on with that one. We 'll agree to disagree on our sexy midfielder though !
I still could be wrong, hopefully I am! One of the leagues best over the last decade.
My opinion is the games moved a bit and now kids have come through in he Coleman mould rather than being a rare jewel. Plus a bad injury and his lack of like early formal football training.
Post by: sam of the south on December 08, 2018, 01:51:44 AM
Aye I remember when I got called all sorts for saying we should look at a long term replacement for the wee man.
One of my favourite Everton players of the last 20 years easily. But it is what it is.
I was very much (grudgingly) with you at the time.
Still hope to be proved emphatically wrong, but injury and age are cruel to players whose main asset is their athleticism.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on December 08, 2018, 02:04:31 AM
Post by: Macca77 on December 08, 2018, 02:23:51 AM
Post by: Martip on December 08, 2018, 02:26:29 AM
https://twitter.com/EvertonBlueArmy/status/1071121351874875392Massive fan of this
Post by: TheTone on December 08, 2018, 02:38:13 AM
Post by: sam of the south on December 08, 2018, 02:49:02 AM
Post by: Ramjam on December 08, 2018, 03:12:07 AM
Post by: brap2 on December 08, 2018, 03:36:16 AM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on December 08, 2018, 07:18:58 AM
Even though Mina has been demonstrably wobbly, I really like him and think he’s a CL level CB.Thought he'd settled in really well, most of the team had a little wobble the other night, was great against them sunday, thought it didn't work with him and Zouma as well as him and Keane have gelled but was the first time together, "demonstrably wobbly" are you getting mixed up with Williams?
Post by: brap2 on December 08, 2018, 06:10:08 PM
All I mean is that in adapting to the league he’s had a few like, minor wobbles. Despite that I really like the look of him and I think he’s got a lot of potential.
Post by: Brownie on December 08, 2018, 06:59:47 PM
Williams was genuinely fucking horseshit.
All I mean is that in adapting to the league he’s had a few like, minor wobbles. Despite that I really like the look of him and I think he’s got a lot of potential.
Has he? Genuinely can't think of any
Post by: TheRam on December 08, 2018, 07:10:02 PM
I do like him but he can get exposed.
I’d prefer to have big Kurt alongside him.
Post by: Free Agent on December 08, 2018, 10:05:46 PM
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on December 08, 2018, 10:23:20 PM
Post by: Dr. Sponge on December 09, 2018, 02:04:22 AM
I thought the side in general is not progressive enough yeah. Bad at breaking down a low block and relying on smashing crosses in.
He's our main cm tasked with driving forward and setting up attacks.
I think he'll work well in a counter attacking side but when we're dominating the ball at home, it's a war of attrition. Could just as easily be in the silva tactics thread.
I honestly feel last nights game is interesting viewed through the prism of the convo you started actually - he's tasty but is he progressive enough with the ball?
Going to be honest, the thing that's followed him around his career so far is that he flatters to deceive. I think it's a BIT unfair, but if we're talking about spending big money on a peak age CM...what do you need him to do in this side?
There were 4 players playing more advanced than Gomes, that’s not really his role. I’m guessing you’ve never played CM.
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Post by: gizzblue on December 12, 2018, 05:54:27 PM
Sorry about the source ....but it's allegedly him saying he's happy....
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on December 12, 2018, 06:16:38 PM
Post by: Audrey Horne on December 16, 2018, 05:52:33 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 16, 2018, 06:22:51 PM
Being reported that we can pay 70mil for Ndombele but if it doesn’t come off we’ll get Gomes.
Who’s the other guy?
Post by: Audrey Horne on December 22, 2018, 04:30:01 PM
https://twitter.com/EITC/status/1076419691999043585
Post by: Bluedylan on December 22, 2018, 04:45:53 PM
How long before he's willing to throw in a happy ending?
Post by: Ramjam on December 22, 2018, 04:47:21 PM
Post by: KevtheRat on December 23, 2018, 03:05:42 AM
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Post by: Jimmywhack on December 23, 2018, 03:19:48 AM
We're basically pimping him out aren't we?I'd be front of the queue
How long before he's willing to throw in a happy ending?
Post by: Simon Paul on December 23, 2018, 03:22:17 AM
I'd be front of the queueBehind me and Ballg
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 23, 2018, 03:23:14 AM
Behind me and BallgI'll take yous both or one at a time
Post by: Simon Paul on December 23, 2018, 03:30:48 AM
I'll take yous both or one at a timeAndre is getting us both at the same time, so that's how you fight for his delightful arms wrapped around you.
Post by: sam of the south on December 24, 2018, 04:48:55 PM
Post by: Macca77 on December 24, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
Any news on his injury?
Sources are telling me he's got a nasty case of "I want Xmas offitus". Unfortunately there isn't a cure
Post by: Free Agent on December 24, 2018, 05:44:31 PM
Post by: sam of the south on December 24, 2018, 08:32:25 PM
Sources are telling me he's got a nasty case of "I want Xmas offitus". Unfortunately there isn't a cure
Must’ve caught it off Dunc
Post by: TheRam on December 24, 2018, 08:41:12 PM
Thankless task though at times.
Post by: sam of the south on December 24, 2018, 09:01:35 PM
Been shite for the last few games anyway.
Thankless task though at times.
If I was him I wouldn’t be certain on signing permanently
Post by: School of Science on December 24, 2018, 10:47:13 PM
Been shite for the last few games anyway.
Thankless task though at times.
Yes thought he'd been off his game the last few, coincided with Gana being missing, probably just a coincidence. ::)
Post by: Macca77 on December 25, 2018, 01:45:49 AM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on December 25, 2018, 02:18:05 AM
If I was him I wouldn’t be certain on signing permanentlycritical few weeks, no use Brands getting good players if we make cunts out of them.
Post by: Dr. Sponge on December 25, 2018, 04:53:41 AM
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Post by: boothill on December 25, 2018, 05:08:28 AM
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Post by: GoodisonPk on December 25, 2018, 05:05:36 PM
I dont think he gives us much when he hasnt got the ball, and saying that, he only has 1 assist up to now, my jury is still out on him
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Jury is out? Do you really think we will get anything close to him or better? We will be lucky if he signs.
Post by: TheRam on December 25, 2018, 05:10:34 PM
Jury is out? Do you really think we will get anything close to him or better? We will be lucky if he signs.
Loads of players out there who are better than him.
We’ve gone massively over the top as usual here.
Post by: Confucius on December 26, 2018, 01:41:29 PM
Post by: brap2 on December 26, 2018, 06:27:25 PM
He is no good if he doesn’t have a Gana type next to him. Same for Portugal.
For Portugal he’s usually got big willy carvalho next to him.
For us I’d say he’s actually doing the carvalho stuff more than anyone else, maybe we need a natural 6 and let him concentrate on dribbling and trying stuff, if he can.
Post by: School of Science on December 26, 2018, 06:33:43 PM
Post by: Lxxx on December 26, 2018, 08:21:40 PM
If I was him I wouldn’t be certain on signing permanently
Why would you though really, if you were him? We’re an average team currently languishing in mid table not really showing any indications that we’re on the right track to challenge the top 6.
It’ll probably be a nice enjoyable year for him in terms of playing some regular football again before concentrating on his career in the summer.
Post by: sam of the south on December 26, 2018, 08:23:20 PM
Why would you though really, if you were him? We’re an average team currently languishing in mid table not really showing any indications that we’re on the right track to challenge the top 6.
It’ll probably be a nice enjoyable year for him in terms of playing some regular football again before concentrating on his career in the summer.
Yeah, that’s kinda what I was grudgingly hinting at
Post by: gizzblue on December 27, 2018, 02:06:15 AM
Post by: Macca77 on December 27, 2018, 03:44:16 AM
Post by: TheRam on December 27, 2018, 09:06:54 AM
Post by: Gary1878 on December 27, 2018, 01:00:31 PM
Without players of the calibre and consistency of Gomes, we will never be in and around the top 6.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 27, 2018, 06:18:15 PM
We shouldn't put ourselves down and I think Gomes is perfectly suited for our level and where we want to go. He needs to be the main man in the centre and the other sides already have that sort of player.
Without players of the calibre and consistency of Gomes, we will never be in and around the top 6.
The problem is players don’t often know what they need. I honestly don’t believe players sign for top teams to sit on their bench and pick up big money. They sign because they believe they will do enough to get themselves in the team even if pretty much everyone else can see they’ve no chance. If a top side comes in for him his head will be turned even though it could possibly see him not playing again
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 27, 2018, 06:24:26 PM
The problem is players don’t often know what they need. I honestly don’t believe players sign for top teams to sit on their bench and pick up big money. They sign because they believe they will do enough to get themselves in the team even if pretty much everyone else can see they’ve no chance. If a top side comes in for him his head will be turned even though it could possibly see him not playing again
I think players would still weigh the pros and cons recognising they may not play as often. For instance would you rather play 40 games a season for Leicester or 15-20 for Man City - bearing in mind everything else that gets factored in beyond game time e.g. trophies, money, respect, environment, coaching quality etc.
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 27, 2018, 06:32:49 PM
The problem is players don't often know what they need. I honestly don't believe players sign for top teams to sit on their bench and pick up big money. They sign because they believe they will do enough to get themselves in the team even if pretty much everyone else can see they've no chance. If a top side comes in for him his head will be turned even though it could possibly see him not playing againYou have to have that belief or what's the point.
Post by: Lxxx on December 27, 2018, 06:53:43 PM
We shouldn't put ourselves down and I think Gomes is perfectly suited for our level and where we want to go. He needs to be the main man in the centre and the other sides already have that sort of player.
Without players of the calibre and consistency of Gomes, we will never be in and around the top 6.
It's not about putting ourselves down it's about acknowledging where we are in the footballing order. Players like Gomes have come here to regain their love for playing regular football again I imagine, same with Digne, and to assist with them getting back up to the level that they have sampled previously. If that's helping us get there great, if not then they'll likely move on, if they get the chance.
The challenge for Silva and Brands is to build something to make them stay but if they leave it isn't a big deal, we still have to develop a business model which consists of sustainable squad building so picking up regular loans like Gomes and buying and selling players like Richarlison at a profit is the way forward.
Post by: sam of the south on January 05, 2019, 03:23:51 AM
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 03:47:47 AM
Can’t be arsed to read back, but the wretched Daily Express is saying we’ve been offered the chance to buy Gomes this month for £22m (I’m not posting the link to such a right-wing rag)Bargain if so :thumbsup:
Post by: brap2 on January 05, 2019, 06:46:15 AM
Even as not his biggest fan I’d take that.
Also interested in Denis Suarez? Young, little but creative from the middle or out wide.
Also something weird about benfica want silva and we want zivkovic off them.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on January 05, 2019, 01:01:24 PM
Twitter saying Barca want us to take Gomes for 22.5m.
Even as not his biggest fan I’d take that.
Also interested in Denis Suarez? Young, little but creative from the middle or out wide.
Also something weird about benfica want silva and we want zivkovic off them.
I’d be happy with Gomes at 20m ish. Not his biggest fan either but he’s still a talented player for what’s a pretty low fee
Post by: Silas on January 05, 2019, 01:33:12 PM
Post by: BlueForYou on January 05, 2019, 03:01:50 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 05, 2019, 05:05:27 PM
Post by: TheRam on January 05, 2019, 05:07:54 PM
Think he’s the first cog in the machine for a new silva midfield.
Get the right players around him and he could be a very good player.
Post by: BlueForYou on January 05, 2019, 05:10:27 PM
Post by: Audrey Horne on January 24, 2019, 05:36:47 PM
Post by: Audrey Horne on January 24, 2019, 05:37:08 PM
Post by: Macca77 on January 24, 2019, 05:50:33 PM
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1088391214519537664
Absolutely fantastic, over 100k raised now for The People's Place
Post by: Shogun on January 24, 2019, 10:08:58 PM
Post by: Mouse on January 24, 2019, 10:54:19 PM
click on it, there is a VIDEO :love:Ahhh, that brightened a miserable January afternoon! There is no end to this man's gorgeousness. Hope he stays and becomes the player we dream he is.
Post by: BlueForYou on January 24, 2019, 11:10:01 PM
Love Like A Man, Andre
Post by: TheRam on January 24, 2019, 11:48:52 PM
Post by: Macca77 on January 24, 2019, 11:51:34 PM
Post by: gizzblue on January 24, 2019, 11:53:32 PM
Post by: brap2 on January 24, 2019, 11:53:40 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on January 24, 2019, 11:55:28 PM
Post by: Shogun on January 25, 2019, 12:19:17 AM
Never played over the winter before so the games will have taken their toll, especially after months without playing anyway including no pre-season.
A class player and once the games even out we’ll see that again.
Post by: brap2 on January 25, 2019, 12:23:44 AM
He’ll be fine.
Never played over the winter before so the games will have taken their toll, especially after months without playing anyway including no pre-season.
A class player and once the games even out we’ll see that again.
That’ll be it mate.
Post by: Shogun on January 25, 2019, 12:25:44 AM
That’ll be it mate.Let’s see
Loser posts on GOT all of next season
Post by: brap2 on January 25, 2019, 12:29:00 AM
Let’s see
Loser posts on GOT all of next season
I’ll let you choose my username.
In all seriousness, he did genuinely do some good things at first and I think he’s capable of more - particularly dribbling, but he’s fell off a cliff a bit. If he can get back to his original form I’d be happy with him.
Post by: Silas on January 25, 2019, 12:41:57 AM
Post by: TheRam on January 25, 2019, 12:44:00 AM
Anything more than that makes me a bit wheezy
Post by: Paddockoldie on January 25, 2019, 02:00:48 AM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on January 25, 2019, 02:07:20 AM
Post by: Ell Capitan on January 25, 2019, 03:13:34 AM
Recoup the £20m in no time.
Post by: brap2 on February 16, 2019, 09:56:14 PM
25m okay, 25.01m no thank you.
Post by: sam of the south on February 16, 2019, 11:05:27 PM
Talk of a permanent deal on twitter.
25m okay, 25.01m no thank you.
If Gomes, Davies, and Vlasic were the only ones kept in a summer midfield revamp I’d be happy
Post by: gizzblue on February 16, 2019, 11:50:21 PM
Although one man doesn't make a midfield .
Post by: TheRam on February 16, 2019, 11:52:01 PM
Post by: Thornton_19 on February 16, 2019, 11:52:04 PM
Hes dead handsome and looks like he smells lovely so hes worth 25 million.
Post by: TheTone on February 17, 2019, 12:02:18 AM
Post by: brap2 on February 17, 2019, 12:39:33 AM
Forms dropped off a cliff but to be fair other teams have splashed out big on midfielders and they have struggled in this league, e.g. Fred and Fabinho, I'm all in for 20-25m
I'd rather Fred you know
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 17, 2019, 12:56:06 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 17, 2019, 01:32:37 AM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 17, 2019, 01:44:07 AM
Post by: Waltzer on February 17, 2019, 01:49:03 AM
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Post by: Macca77 on February 17, 2019, 02:10:21 AM
Post by: Goaljira on February 17, 2019, 02:20:04 AM
Post by: Bob Sacamano on February 17, 2019, 02:26:49 AM
I think when building a proper squad players like this guy are vital. I think he’s a bit of a steal at £25m considering the market.
Post by: Waltzer on February 17, 2019, 02:28:26 AM
People need to remember he had no pre-season, came I to a new league and played a lot of games in a team who as a whole have fallen off a cliff performance wise, lack confidence and identity. Without him We're a much worse team and we should do everything we can to keep him.Yep, we're talking about a player that would apparently cost less than Bolasie and has shown glimpses of what he's capable of, which is quality, and people are saying we should pass it up like we've got Messi waiting in the sidelines. If we want to progress we need more players like Gomez and if I could swap Gueye for him in terms of transfer fee id do it in a heartbeat
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Post by: Martip on February 17, 2019, 02:32:58 AM
Yep, we're talking about a player that would apparently cost less than Bolasie and has shown glimpses of what he's capable of, which is quality, and people are saying we should pass it up like we've got Messi waiting in the sidelines. If we want to progress we need more players like Gomez and if I could swap Gueye for him in terms of transfer fee id do it in a heartbeatYou know what this is spot on. If its 25m bite their hands off.
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Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 17, 2019, 03:34:34 AM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 17, 2019, 03:39:59 AM
416 Colemans
It’s a bit daft picking 1 of our shocking signings and comparing the value
Post by: Brownie on February 17, 2019, 03:43:55 AM
25 Eric cantonas
416 Colemans
It’s a bit daft picking 1 of our shocking signings and comparing the value
Brett Angel is a shocking signing.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 17, 2019, 03:50:34 AM
Post by: Waltzer on February 17, 2019, 03:52:39 AM
25 Eric cantonasYou're right to some extent, but it was a reality check. Personally I don't worry about the cost, I'm worried about getting the best players we can, and I think he's at the higher end of what we can attract, so we should be trying to get him, imo
416 Colemans
It's a bit daft picking 1 of our shocking signings and comparing the value
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Post by: ajax_andy on February 17, 2019, 04:08:06 AM
Post by: brap2 on February 17, 2019, 04:16:42 AM
Being romantic, he COULD be even better than he has been which would be genuinely good, but we really need to support him with 2 new good quality CM's with different profiles.
A two way DM who can destroy and move up the pitch and pass a bit, and a creative player who can dribble, create and score from CM.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 17, 2019, 04:38:48 AM
Post by: ally2 on February 17, 2019, 05:30:22 AM
Post by: Jamokachi on February 17, 2019, 06:22:12 AM
25 Eric cantonas
416 Colemans
It’s a bit daft picking 1 of our shocking signings and comparing the value
It's not, is it. It's taking the market as it currently stands into account when determining whether a figure represents value for money. Picking players from 10 and (nearly) 30 years ago and their transfer fees, not to mention pedigree is "a bit daft" when trying to emphasise a point, though. But then, hyperbole.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 17, 2019, 02:09:54 PM
It's not, is it. It's taking the market as it currently stands into account when determining whether a figure represents value for money. Picking players from 10 and (nearly) 30 years ago and their transfer fees, not to mention pedigree is "a bit daft" when trying to emphasise a point, though. But then, hyperbole.
The market doesn’t currently stand there. We wouldn’t get 45m for sigurdsson cos we overpaid. So yes it is nonsense. Gomes at 25m or infinite Bernards?
Look at 25m Gomes would be a decent signing. Comparing him to bad signings to prove that is nonsense though
Post by: Brownie on February 17, 2019, 02:27:25 PM
The market doesn’t currently stand there. We wouldn’t get 45m for sigurdsson cos we overpaid. So yes it is nonsense. Gomes at 25m or infinite Bernards?
Look at 25m Gomes would be a decent signing. Comparing him to bad signings to prove that is nonsense though
Is Sigurdsson a bad signing or is he just overpriced? Because there is a difference
Post by: stirlingblue on February 17, 2019, 04:00:17 PM
Is Sigurdsson a bad signing or is he just overpriced? Because there is a difference
He’s certainly a bad signing for the price we paid.
He’s arguably a bad signing as he was the wrong type of player that we needed at the time.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 17, 2019, 05:33:19 PM
Post by: boothill on February 17, 2019, 05:47:41 PM
would cost half a Sigg..no brainer
gylfi offers x10 more though
Post by: boothill on February 17, 2019, 05:53:08 PM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 17, 2019, 05:54:13 PM
gylfi offers x10 more thoughNot for me mate Siggs an ornament compared to Gomes, it's all about opinions and we all see different things in players and matches, it's why the games so popular, although no fun for us at the mo.
Post by: boothill on February 17, 2019, 05:59:15 PM
Not for me mate Siggs an ornament compared to Gomes, it's all about opinions and we all see different things in players and matches, it's why the games so popular, although no fun for us at the mo.
i dont get where you're coming from,ive watched gomes and really wanted him to perform, but apart from a few pieces of skill/class hes disapointed me, but maybe thats more to do with the system they are being forced to play. but youre right in that its all about opinions bud
Post by: boothill on February 17, 2019, 06:03:32 PM
Is Sigurdsson a bad signing or is he just overpriced? Because there is a difference
he was overpriced by 10/15 million, but that was our clubs fault pursuing him has they did and making it so public.
i really rate him as a player
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 17, 2019, 06:03:54 PM
Is Sigurdsson a bad signing or is he just overpriced? Because there is a difference
Same thing for me. The price (and I guess the contracts) dictate the quality of a signing. Sigurdsson is a good player. He’s not suitable for a good side though (which we have ambitions to be) he was also poor value for money
I’ve nothing against him. He’s decent enough but his signing in terms of cost of suitability was ridiculous.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 17, 2019, 06:18:41 PM
i dont get where you're coming from,ive watched gomes and really wanted him to perform, but apart from a few pieces of skill/class hes disapointed me, but maybe thats more to do with the system they are being forced to play. but youre right in that its all about opinions budThink Gomes has been in a more defensive roll lately and doing a pretty selfless job helping out, i don't see it as his form dropping off, just a case of needs must, would prefer to have others to do it and him in a more creative roll but we have a few passengers at the moment and he's kept grafting.
Post by: Thornton_19 on February 17, 2019, 07:23:31 PM
Not for me mate Siggs an ornament compared to Gomes, it's all about opinions and we all see different things in players and matches, it's why the games so popular, although no fun for us at the mo.Mate im not Sigurddsons biggest fan, but Gomes has 1 goal and 1 assist this year compared to the 9 goals 3 assists of Sigurddson.
I dread to think where we woul be without him this year.
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 17, 2019, 07:29:35 PM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 17, 2019, 09:14:18 PM
Comparing sigurdsson to gomes is like comparing an apple to a twigNot in terms of usefulness no it's not obviously
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 17, 2019, 09:20:33 PM
Mate im not Sigurddsons biggest fan, but Gomes has 1 goal and 1 assist this year compared to the 9 goals 3 assists of Sigurddson.I don't dislike him he always puts the effort in, he's nowhere near any sort of upgrade though on what we had, and we spent way too much on him, 3 managers have yet to find an effective roll for him though granted all 3 managers have been cabbages tactically, so maybe the right manager can put an average player to good use, but only Moyes was good at that and according to some on here he was a wanker, so maybe we are getting what we deserve.
I dread to think where we woul be without him this year.
Post by: boothill on February 17, 2019, 11:29:49 PM
Comparing sigurdsson to gomes is like comparing an apple to a twig
im robbing this jim
Post by: di_guyo on February 18, 2019, 07:37:54 PM
Post by: Toddacelli on February 19, 2019, 02:45:12 AM
Been here a while now, been coached and trained by Silva and his crew.
The results of this are plain to see.
Post by: Juanito on February 19, 2019, 01:00:44 PM
I think he is the most talented player we have in our squad and the best footballer. Put him alongside a Barry with a manager who has a grasp of what he is trying to do and that 30 million is a bargain.
Post by: Lxxx on February 19, 2019, 07:02:08 PM
He was playing well leading up to and including the derby and since they he and everyone else has fallen off a cliff.
Post by: Jamokachi on February 19, 2019, 08:16:28 PM
The market doesn’t currently stand there. We wouldn’t get 45m for sigurdsson cos we overpaid. So yes it is nonsense. Gomes at 25m or infinite Bernards?
Look at 25m Gomes would be a decent signing. Comparing him to bad signings to prove that is nonsense though
You're right, the market has changed, taking it further from your nonsensical comparison.
It's not comparing him to a bad signing, it's comparing him to the market value. How Bolasie (or anyone else) turned out is a hypothetical and therefore is of no concern. The value is based on the player at the point of purchase.
Tis isn't about what Gomes (or anyone) is worth, but rather the value of comparison.
Post by: Ross on February 19, 2019, 08:28:11 PM
I’m not going on the player for Barcelona or the player we see now. I’m going on the standout player for Valencia, that earned a big money move to Barcelona. The player that was the best player on the park in the Derby. We are disjointed, have no structure, therefore he struggles, too.
I think he is the most talented player we have in our squad and the best footballer. Put him alongside a Barry with a manager who has a grasp of what he is trying to do and that 30 million is a bargain.
You’ve got to judge him on his form and recent past not on some season he played two and a half years ago.
Its not like you’d suggest not bringing a forward in this summer and giving Sandro another chance next season is it?
Post by: Martip on February 19, 2019, 08:29:13 PM
Post by: brap2 on February 19, 2019, 11:31:03 PM
Have we moved on from that based on his showing?
If we spend 30 on this Littlewoods model we deserve everything we get.
Post by: Martip on February 19, 2019, 11:36:21 PM
It was said at the start of this whole endeavour - bad move, flatters to deceive, not a great player.Have faith brap he 'll come good with better around him and better shape
Have we moved on from that based on his showing?
If we spend 30 on this Littlewoods model we deserve everything we get.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 20, 2019, 12:08:31 AM
You're right, the market has changed, taking it further from your nonsensical comparison.
It's not comparing him to a bad signing, it's comparing him to the market value. How Bolasie (or anyone else) turned out is a hypothetical and therefore is of no concern. The value is based on the player at the point of purchase.
Tis isn't about what Gomes (or anyone) is worth, but rather the value of comparison.
You think we’d make a profit on sigurdsson? If we are going to compare Gomes value to sigurdssons then we need to compare it to a fee we’d realistically get today
Post by: Toddacelli on February 20, 2019, 12:33:10 AM
It was said at the start of this whole endeavour - bad move, flatters to deceive, not a great player.
Have we moved on from that based on his showing?
If we spend 30 on this Littlewoods model we deserve everything we get.
Scathing!
Have you not seen anything at all about Gomes that makes you want to keep him?
Do you not think he would be great with better players around him? Because we won't get better players until we replace the McCarthy's with the Gomes'
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 20, 2019, 12:38:12 AM
It was said at the start of this whole endeavour - bad move, flatters to deceive, not a great player.Well we spent 45 on a useless little dolly and 28 on a terminally lazy get, god knows how much on that Brazilian grass eating cunt so why not..
Have we moved on from that based on his showing?
If we spend 30 on this Littlewoods model we deserve everything we get.
Post by: Macca77 on February 20, 2019, 12:39:17 AM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 20, 2019, 12:47:38 AM
25-30 million is the going rate these days
It is but is he a player we really need
I tend to think he’s 1 who drifts to the mean. He’d look decent in a decent side but not really elevate us a level (whatever level we might be at)
I’ve no problem with us signing him but I wouldn’t be too upset if we passed on him either
Post by: sam of the south on February 20, 2019, 12:48:24 AM
Well we spent 45 on a useless little dolly and 28 on a terminally lazy get, god knows how much on that Brazilian grass eating cunt so why not..
You’re in a good mood
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 20, 2019, 12:51:37 AM
Post by: Martip on February 20, 2019, 01:04:40 AM
It is but is he a player we really needYou know what I think he is the player we need IF we sort the shit out around him in the sense that he's so comfortable on the ball so brings much needed composure.
I tend to think he’s 1 who drifts to the mean. He’d look decent in a decent side but not really elevate us a level (whatever level we might be at)
I’ve no problem with us signing him but I wouldn’t be too upset if we passed on him either
If he went to spurs for example he d smash it.
Post by: Brownie on February 20, 2019, 01:09:44 AM
Well we spent 45 on a useless little dolly and 28 on a terminally lazy get, god knows how much on that Brazilian grass eating cunt so why not..
Wow
Post by: TheRam on February 20, 2019, 01:10:05 AM
It was said at the start of this whole endeavour - bad move, flatters to deceive, not a great player.
Have we moved on from that based on his showing?
If we spend 30 on this Littlewoods model we deserve everything we get.
Not as bad was you made out, not as good as some people think.
Worth taking the risk for a decent price considering he had no pre season and has had to play inbetween two of the most one dimensional midfielders in the league.
Post by: TheRam on February 20, 2019, 01:11:05 AM
Well we spent 45 on a useless little dolly and 28 on a terminally lazy get, god knows how much on that Brazilian grass eating cunt so why not..
Kinell.
Bernard was on a free by the way and he’s sound.
Don’t even know who you’re talking about with the 28mil.
Post by: kramer0 on February 20, 2019, 01:11:55 AM
Post by: Martip on February 20, 2019, 01:12:35 AM
Kinell.Mina?
Bernard was on a free by the way and he’s sound.
Don’t even know who you’re talking about with the 28mil.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 20, 2019, 01:14:02 AM
Kinell.Walcott and Rich, like Bernard, got mixed up between Theo's age and his fee, must be depression.
Bernard was on a free by the way and he’s sound.
Don’t even know who you’re talking about with the 28mil.
Post by: TheRam on February 20, 2019, 01:14:59 AM
I bet we could capture all of the dribbles and crisp passes to the flanks, along with some extra defensive upside, for a smaller fee and wage by signing Sander Berge from Genk instead.
What’s to say we can’t sign both?
I’m hoping for two midfielders in along with Gomes myself.
Post by: Martip on February 20, 2019, 01:15:24 AM
Walcott and Rich, like Bernard, got mixed up between Theo's age and his fee, must be depression.I feel your pain :thumbsup:
Post by: Martip on February 20, 2019, 01:17:46 AM
What’s to say we can’t sign both?Assuming we sell gana who d you reckon we should go for ?
I’m hoping for two midfielders in along with Gomes myself.
Post by: Macca77 on February 20, 2019, 01:31:30 AM
Post by: brap2 on February 20, 2019, 01:36:22 AM
Scathing!
Have you not seen anything at all about Gomes that makes you want to keep him?
Do you not think he would be great with better players around him? Because we won't get better players until we replace the McCarthy's with the Gomes'
Yeah he's nice to watch, but I'm not massively surprised it's panned out like this really and if we bought him it would probably just be more of the same. Flashes of undeniable quality followed by periods of anonymity down to downright poor showings.
Can't we just buy a good player and it work out? There's always if, buts and maybes with us, isn't there?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 20, 2019, 01:48:08 AM
Post by: Toddacelli on February 20, 2019, 01:29:17 PM
Yeah he's nice to watch, but I'm not massively surprised it's panned out like this really and if we bought him it would probably just be more of the same. Flashes of undeniable quality followed by periods of anonymity down to downright poor showings.
Can't we just buy a good player and it work out? There's always if, buts and maybes with us, isn't there?
Well we know that there is a reason he didn't have a place in the first team at Barcelona - but it worked out for us with Digne didn't it?
I don't think that he's one of those 'but how is he at Stoke on a wet Tuesday evening' players because one of the things that initially impressed me was the way he used his upper body strength to fend people off whilst keeping the ball at his feet where just about every other member of the squad would have been forced to pass it to retain possession.
I agree that it is a concern that he can be Rolls Royce one week and Reliant Robin the next, but I'm convinced that the way the team are playing around him is a massive factor in his game. Remember the first few games? He seemed to be everywhere and available to everyone and everything went through him. Tom Davies aside - I don't know if anyone else works that closely with that many players on his own team.
Now add to that how poor we have been as a team, how bad this season has been, how unhappy the fans are and how much press coverage and pressure there is. For someone who relies on teammates and is such a team player (IMO), it must be really difficult. His skill is using his teammates and his teammates are shit. So even when he does his best it still turns to shit. Add to that the way Silva is asking them all to play and what do you get?
Now I'm not saying that he is blameless - he shoulders as much responsibility as they all do - I'm just saying I understand why we're now seeing him play safer and sometimes putting in a half-shift, even if I don't agree with it.
Post by: brap2 on February 20, 2019, 01:37:55 PM
He's a bauble and we're better off avoiding fraudulent players.
Post by: Toddacelli on February 20, 2019, 02:01:36 PM
The concern is that even when he is good he doesn't do anything.
He's a bauble and we're better off avoiding fraudulent players.
But is he able to do what he does best with those around him?
If you give a master joiner an inflatable hammer to knock his nails in - is he fraudulent too? Or are you just not setting him up to succeed with the skills he clearly possesses?
Post by: Cereal Killer on February 20, 2019, 02:04:49 PM
But is he able to do what he does best with those around him?
If you give a master joiner an inflatable hammer to knock his nails in - is he fraudulent too? Or are you just not setting him up to succeed with the skills he clearly possesses?
Depends if the stats say he knocked in any critical nails, or at least the expected number of nails per 90 mins :thumbsup:
Post by: brap2 on February 20, 2019, 02:27:40 PM
Depends if the stats say he knocked in any critical nails, or at least the expected number of nails per 90 mins :thumbsup:
If across the course of his career he barely managed to hang a shelf despite looking like Tim the toolman Taylor then yes, you should pay attention to that.
Can't believe people still have this idea that he's some incredible player it's just that we haven't seen it.
He was *good* when he was playing well, but without really doing anything at all.
You do know there are players out there who do actually do stuff? Like why not just buy a good player? Why must we always 'take risks' and hope it works out?
Post by: Cereal Killer on February 20, 2019, 02:56:40 PM
If across the course of his career he barely managed to hang a shelf despite looking like Tim the toolman Taylor then yes, you should pay attention to that.
Can't believe people still have this idea that he's some incredible player it's just that we haven't seen it.
He was *good* when he was playing well, but without really doing anything at all.
You do know there are players out there who do actually do stuff? Like why not just buy a good player? Why must we always 'take risks' and hope it works out?
A centre mid who has a season with 13 goals, 8 assists, 1.8 key passes per game? Followed next season with 14 goals, 9 assist and 1.8 key passes per game?
Post by: Silas on February 20, 2019, 02:57:35 PM
If across the course of his career he barely managed to hang a shelf despite looking like Tim the toolman Taylor then yes, you should pay attention to that.
Can't believe people still have this idea that he's some incredible player it's just that we haven't seen it.
He was *good* when he was playing well, but without really doing anything at all.
You do know there are players out there who do actually do stuff? Like why not just buy a good player? Why must we always 'take risks' and hope it works out?
Why can't we do both? Every team does that. I'm not sure how a player can be good but do nothing that doesn't make you a good player. You look at output as the only thing that defines a good player and I know we've had this conversation before but there's more to it than key passes, tackles etc. I get that when he plays poorly he seems like a luxury but when he is playing well he does keep the ball exceptionally well, look to play it forward and spot the movement of creative players. He needs a more progressive player alongside him for sure but he would be an asset as a permanent signing with A.N other
Post by: brap2 on February 20, 2019, 02:59:49 PM
A centre mid who has a season with 13 goals, 8 assists, 1.8 key passes per game? Followed next season with 14 goals, 9 assist and 1.8 key passes per game?
I don't have a clue who you're talking about
Post by: Cereal Killer on February 20, 2019, 03:00:45 PM
I don't have a clue who you're talking about
There really the kind of outputs we'd like tho? They seem to be a good player? Consistent, does a lot
Post by: brap2 on February 20, 2019, 03:08:54 PM
Why can't we do both? Every team does that. I'm not sure how a player can be good but do nothing that doesn't make you a good player. You look at output as the only thing that defines a good player and I know we've had this conversation before but there's more to it than key passes, tackles etc. I get that when he plays poorly he seems like a luxury but when he is playing well he does keep the ball exceptionally well, look to play it forward and spot the movement of creative players. He needs a more progressive player alongside him for sure but he would be an asset as a permanent signing with A.N other
Ultimately I suppose I agree - if we can get him for a palatable fee which for me would be 25 and under, then I could swallow it.
Issue for me is that Everton take lots of gambles that don't ever seen to be thought through at all, and that's how we've ended up where we are. Every team does it to some extent but very few do it as fucking badly as Everton FC.
Re: output - disagree but I understand where you're coming from.
When he was playing well he was a good ball progressor which is something we severely lacked (for years), so I will definitely give him that if we are talking about output. He is press resistant true which helps us a lot, and he *seeeeems* to have all the tools to be genuinely very very good.
I just don't understand why we should persist or take risks on players we know deep down have a poor chance of success.
We've seen him play now and it turns out it was largely correct that he is OK and looks nice but ultimately meh....why not just go and buy an actually good player?
Post by: Hawkandro on February 20, 2019, 03:10:07 PM
I bet we could capture all of the dribbles and crisp passes to the flanks, along with some extra defensive upside, for a smaller fee and wage by signing Sander Berge from Genk instead.
I am really intrigued as to what our transfer targets will be this summer. Brands has talked about a clear-out, and Moshiri has talked about signing younger players than we have focused on before, yet it's totally silent in terms of rumours.
Post by: brap2 on February 20, 2019, 03:10:52 PM
There really the kind of outputs we'd like tho? They seem to be a good player? Consistent, does a lot
I've honestly got no idea what your point is here, is this some sort of trap? Who is this mythical beast?
Post by: Macca77 on February 20, 2019, 03:22:22 PM
Post by: Silas on February 20, 2019, 03:29:08 PM
Ultimately I suppose I agree - if we can get him for a palatable fee which for me would be 25 and under, then I could swallow it.
Issue for me is that Everton take lots of gambles that don't ever seen to be thought through at all, and that's how we've ended up where we are. Every team does it to some extent but very few do it as fucking badly as Everton FC.
Re: output - disagree but I understand where you're coming from.
When he was playing well he was a good ball progressor which is something we severely lacked (for years), so I will definitely give him that if we are talking about output. He is press resistant true which helps us a lot, and he *seeeeems* to have all the tools to be genuinely very very good.
I just don't understand why we should persist or take risks on players we know deep down have a poor chance of success.
We've seen him play now and it turns out it was largely correct that he is OK and looks nice but ultimately meh....why not just go and buy an actually good player?
I kind of agree as well we need to just buy a good player but I think there's room for Gomes as well, price dependent like you said though. I think we will bring Gomes in because it's pretty clear Gueye, Schneiderlin and Mc Carthy won't be here. That leaves us very light on established players. There's going to be a lot of incoming and outgoings this summer for us I reckon but it's overdue
Post by: penguinofdoom1878 on February 20, 2019, 03:38:27 PM
Ultimately I suppose I agree - if we can get him for a palatable fee which for me would be 25 and under, then I could swallow it.
Issue for me is that Everton take lots of gambles that don't ever seen to be thought through at all, and that's how we've ended up where we are. Every team does it to some extent but very few do it as fucking badly as Everton FC.
Re: output - disagree but I understand where you're coming from.
When he was playing well he was a good ball progressor which is something we severely lacked (for years), so I will definitely give him that if we are talking about output. He is press resistant true which helps us a lot, and he *seeeeems* to have all the tools to be genuinely very very good.
I just don't understand why we should persist or take risks on players we know deep down have a poor chance of success.
We've seen him play now and it turns out it was largely correct that he is OK and looks nice but ultimately meh....why not just go and buy an actually good player?
I would like us to buy an actual good player too, but is this part of our problem at the moment, we are not attractive enough for those kind of players. Apart from wages, club history (which modern players don't really care about) and maybe a we want to be here as a club we don't have much to offer those players, so we only appeal to the Gomes' or (back then anyway) Lukaku's someone that talented but want to use us at the moment as a stepping stone.
Wan-Bissaka would be a good signing for us, but would he view at the moment us as a move forward from Palace or stay there and wait for Man Utd, Tottenham or Man City etc...
I think our targets are probably
Potential/highly rated
Talented but a risk
Talented on the fringes at current club wanting to prove himself
Post by: Brownie on February 20, 2019, 04:10:18 PM
I would like us to buy an actual good player too, but is this part of our problem at the moment, we are not attractive enough for those kind of players. Apart from wages, club history (which modern players don't really care about) and maybe a we want to be here as a club we don't have much to offer those players, so we only appeal to the Gomes' or (back then anyway) Lukaku's someone that talented but want to use us at the moment as a stepping stone.
Wan-Bissaka would be a good signing for us, but would he view at the moment us as a move forward from Palace or stay there and wait for Man Utd, Tottenham or Man City etc...
I think our targets are probably
Potential/highly rated
Talented but a risk
Talented on the fringes at current club wanting to prove himself
Being linked with all the top clubs this morning.
Post by: ally2 on February 20, 2019, 05:00:59 PM
We've basically Evertoned the fuck out of Gomes haven't we, he gave us flashes of how good he can be when he first arrived, we soon knocked that out of him
Yes I see it like that. Like trying to warm up a lake by putting hot water into it. Whatever you chuck into it immediately assumes the temperature of the lake. Although Gomes did flourish for a short while. Perhaps he deserves more credit for that.
Post by: BlueBeagle on February 20, 2019, 05:03:21 PM
I bet we could capture all of the dribbles and crisp passes to the flanks, along with some extra defensive upside, for a smaller fee and wage by signing Sander Berge from Genk instead.
Do you just pick random names out of World Soccer magazine?
If not you're wasted on here. You should be a scout.
Post by: van der Meyde on February 20, 2019, 05:32:00 PM
I kind of agree as well we need to just buy a good player but I think there's room for Gomes as well, price dependent like you said though. I think we will bring Gomes in because it's pretty clear Gueye, Schneiderlin and Mc Carthy won't be here. That leaves us very light on established players. There's going to be a lot of incoming and outgoings this summer for us I reckon but it's overdueI think the issue he has is that he's a little jack of all trades, master of none.
He's alright when he's got the ball and he's alright in defence. He's just not excellent at either. He's neither gonna help us concede fewer goals nor help us score/create more. He's just a less influential version of Gareth Barry to me, better at dribbling and worse at everything else.
For the version of Everton I want us to be, he'd be a really great squad option. I'd just prefer we had a player who had a more tangible effect either creatively or defensively starting for us in midfield next season.
Post by: Toddacelli on February 20, 2019, 07:32:04 PM
Ultimately I suppose I agree - if we can get him for a palatable fee which for me would be 25 and under, then I could swallow it.
Issue for me is that Everton take lots of gambles that don't ever seen to be thought through at all, and that's how we've ended up where we are. Every team does it to some extent but very few do it as fucking badly as Everton FC.
Re: output - disagree but I understand where you're coming from.
When he was playing well he was a good ball progressor which is something we severely lacked (for years), so I will definitely give him that if we are talking about output. He is press resistant true which helps us a lot, and he *seeeeems* to have all the tools to be genuinely very very good.
I just don't understand why we should persist or take risks on players we know deep down have a poor chance of success.
We've seen him play now and it turns out it was largely correct that he is OK and looks nice but ultimately meh....why not just go and buy an actually good player?
"if we can get him for a palatable fee which for me would be 25 and under, then I could swallow it"
I don't get people who think like this (not just you Brap). Yes I want to make sure we're not rinsed and get good deals but really - who can say what good deals are these days? There are no rules. The money is ridiculous and unfathomable. You can have an overpriced shit flop, a worldy who was a snip, a youth who cost nowt, a prospect who cost the earth and never delivered.
Ultimately you have to trust that those taking these calculated risks have done their job and looked into it a lot more than we do. But even that's no guarantee. There are no guarantees.
If a player is right - pay what you can afford to or risk not progressing.
"why not just go and buy an actually good player?"
This is almost contradictory to your other point. Not when taken with your assessment of Gomes though, I guess.
The thing is - he's an upgrade. Better than what we have. So he is a better player. If he is already here and wants to stay - then we should definitely get him and improve the squad because this other mythical 'better player' may never materialise.
What will attract this other 'better player'? A number of things. One of them being whether or not he gets to play alongside McCarthy and Schneiderlin or Gomes and Gana.
Post by: brap2 on February 20, 2019, 07:40:58 PM
Post by: gizzblue on February 20, 2019, 07:46:06 PM
Every single fucking signing here or abroad is a gamble ...and if you think stats sheets prove this wrong your watching the wrong fucking game .
All we can do is trust in our "new" DOF and hope he knows better than some data sheet internet buff .
Post by: Macca77 on February 20, 2019, 07:48:48 PM
Post by: van der Meyde on February 20, 2019, 08:04:49 PM
The thing is - he's an upgrade. Better than what we have. So he is a better player. If he is already here and wants to stay - then we should definitely get him and improve the squad because this other mythical 'better player' may never materialise.Cenk Tosun and Theo Walcott were better than what we had, but it didn't mean they were good signings.
These signings don't exist in isolation. We've now been told that we need to shed money off the wage bill before we can bring in more players.
What we spend on one player directly affects what we can spend on another.
That's why it's important to get players who are the best possible fit, not just 'upgrades'.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on February 20, 2019, 09:56:45 PM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on February 20, 2019, 11:09:12 PM
We've basically Evertoned the fuck out of Gomes haven't we, he gave us flashes of how good he can be when he first arrived, we soon knocked that out of himExactly
Post by: Seahawk on February 21, 2019, 03:58:55 AM
We've basically Evertoned the fuck out of Gomes haven't we, he gave us flashes of how good he can be when he first arrived, we soon knocked that out of himEvertoned the fuck out of him. One of the best one liners I've heard in ages. Still smiling 30 minutes after reading it.
Have an immediate like and a cool Sir!
Post by: Toddacelli on February 21, 2019, 01:59:57 PM
Cenk Tosun and Theo Walcott were better than what we had, but it didn't mean they were good signings.
These signings don't exist in isolation. We've now been told that we need to shed money off the wage bill before we can bring in more players.
What we spend on one player directly affects what we can spend on another.
That's why it's important to get players who are the best possible fit, not just 'upgrades'.
If there is a better fit and a better player who wants to come - of course I want him instead. But just how often have we bought players that have improved us recently?
Schneiderlin? Bolasie? Williams? Keane? Ramirez? Martina? Kone? Valencia? Klaasen?
For me, Gomes is a definite better option in midfield over all our other midfielders, with the possible arguable exception of Gueye. The next guy we get in might be another Klaasen - proven European pedigree but bombs. We've already seen how good Gomes could be.
You want to get rid and gamble again? I'd rather keep him and gamble again.
Post by: Ramjam on February 21, 2019, 02:07:09 PM
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Post by: Lxxx on February 21, 2019, 04:06:31 PM
The real issue is we need to know who is going to be managing us next season and how they want to play. We've turned around three managers in as many years and all wanted different things from the players so let's start from the top and work backwards from there.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on February 21, 2019, 04:17:31 PM
Post by: Bally on February 21, 2019, 07:00:00 PM
We need a leader in there someone like a better footballing version of Scott Brown from Celtic, he's got heart and bottle and will lead by example, a real captain and we desperately need one of those atmDidn't mean to like that, just lost a mouthful of coffee reading that... Fucking hell
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Post by: Audrey Horne on February 21, 2019, 07:20:52 PM
We need a leader in there someone like a better footballing version of Scott Brown from Celtic, he’s got heart and bottle and will lead by example, a real captain and we desperately need one of those atm
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Bloody hell
Post by: van der Meyde on February 21, 2019, 10:08:22 PM
If there is a better fit and a better player who wants to come - of course I want him instead. But just how often have we bought players that have improved us recently?I mean you asked why people care about palatable fees/wages and that's the answer.
Schneiderlin? Bolasie? Williams? Keane? Ramirez? Martina? Kone? Valencia? Klaasen?
For me, Gomes is a definite better option in midfield over all our other midfielders, with the possible arguable exception of Gueye. The next guy we get in might be another Klaasen - proven European pedigree but bombs. We've already seen how good Gomes could be.
You want to get rid and gamble again? I'd rather keep him and gamble again.
Ultimately though, it comes down to how much you rate him. I'd imagine you think he's better than I do and would be happy with him being first choice next season. I think that for a team looking to finish in the top 6 he's not much more than a really good squad option.
So yeah, I would rather take the risk and go for another unknown. But that's also why I argued against spending the money we did on most of the players you mentioned too (Schneiderlin, Keane and Klaassen probably the biggest exceptions which shows what I know!). Otherwise they were players that I had just as many reservations about signing as I do with Gomes.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 21, 2019, 11:01:54 PM
Post by: TheRam on February 21, 2019, 11:44:19 PM
Post by: Macca77 on February 21, 2019, 11:46:37 PM
I see Scott Browns name way too often for my liking on here.
He'd struggle in league one, absolutely shite footballer
Post by: Jimmywhack on February 22, 2019, 01:36:30 AM
In a thread about gomes
Amazing linkage
Post by: Ramjam on February 22, 2019, 01:51:05 AM
Bloody hellWhat is that supposed to mean, don’t you agree that we need a leader of men on the pitch who will show some commitment and passion?
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Post by: bluenuck on February 22, 2019, 02:20:19 AM
Bloody hell
I hate to say it, but he's got a point. We're adding way to many mercs onto our team lately. You could even say that about 2 of our coaches. (Allardayce and Koeman)
Post by: Waltzer on February 22, 2019, 03:05:40 AM
The problem is his wages. We'd again be committing to the top end of our wage structure for a player who might only be a first teamer if we remain unsuccessfulHe's 'only' on 80k per week at Barca, roughly half of what Bernard is on with us
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Post by: TheRam on February 22, 2019, 03:07:26 AM
The leadership thing is a lazy shout that always comes out when in a bad run of form.
We need quality footballers more than players like Scott Brown ffs
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on February 22, 2019, 03:28:27 AM
He's 'only' on 80k per week at Barca, roughly half of what Bernard is on with us
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Really? He needs a new agent. How does someone sign for Barca for 50m and end up on only 80k a week
Post by: Waltzer on February 22, 2019, 03:34:59 AM
Really? He needs a new agent. How does someone sign for Barca for 50m and end up on only 80k a weekA fair few of them aren't on as much as what we pay, assume they hold the Barca trump card and players see the prestige of playing for them over trying to fleece them, unlike us
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Post by: TheRam on February 22, 2019, 03:44:56 AM
Really? He needs a new agent. How does someone sign for Barca for 50m and end up on only 80k a week
He didn’t cost anywhere near 50mil.
Post by: ally2 on February 22, 2019, 03:47:48 AM
Post by: Ramjam on February 22, 2019, 04:46:42 AM
He said someone like scott brown, not scott brown himself. its not like we can be so precious anyway, we already hit the bottom of the barrel with allardyce.Correct Ally, I actually said a better footballing version of Scott Brown.
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Post by: bluenuck on February 22, 2019, 04:56:47 AM
We’ve got too many players in the squad who run around and do nothing.
The leadership thing is a lazy shout that always comes out when in a bad run of form.
We need quality footballers more than players like Scott Brown ffs
He didn't say we need Scott Brown.
And like I've said multiple times. A third of a season is not a bad run of form. It's just a shit team.
Post by: Ramjam on February 22, 2019, 05:02:39 AM
Didn't mean to like that, just lost a mouthful of coffee reading that... Fucking hellWell everyone has been crying out for a leader/captain for a couple of years now and so far I don’t see many other realistic suggestions, anyway make yourself another cuppa
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Post by: TheRam on February 22, 2019, 05:03:42 AM
He didn't say we need Scott Brown.
And like I've said multiple times. A third of a season is not a bad run of form. It's just a shit team.
I know what he said.
It’s still drivel.
Post by: bluenuck on February 22, 2019, 05:12:04 AM
I know what he said.
It’s still drivel.
Nah. I think he's got a point. I don't think it's the main deciding factor why we suck, but You even see it. When we crumble after letting in a goal. Such a weak mentality out there.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on February 22, 2019, 05:40:10 AM
Nah. I think he's got a point. I don't think it's the main deciding factor why we suck, but You even see it. When we crumble after letting in a goal. Such a weak mentality out there.
I disagree. I think the “crumbling” is merely conceding chances a because our midfield is shite and made even shitter by having to chase a game and allow the opposition more space to create, resulting in conceding yet more chances and free kicks in dangerous positions. That’s your “crumbling”.
Having a dickhead running around beating his chest won’t do anything to stop that.
Post by: bluenuck on February 22, 2019, 12:46:22 PM
I disagree. I think the “crumbling” is merely conceding chances a because our midfield is shite and made even shitter by having to chase a game and allow the opposition more space to create, resulting in conceding yet more chances and free kicks in dangerous positions. That’s your “crumbling”.
Having a dickhead running around beating his chest won’t do anything to stop that.
I’m not disagreeing with you. I did say it’s not the main problem.
But I do think it’s an underlying problem that has been growing for the last ~3 seasons that people underrate.
Post by: Martip on February 22, 2019, 03:04:07 PM
I’m not disagreeing with you. I did say it’s not the main problem.For me the problems are a combination of the two. The confidence is low as Silva as so far been unable to find a defensive system that enables us to defend set pieces or a midfield that can both attack and defend in a football match. With the players we have at our disposal both of these should be possible and anyone that says otherwise is being naive imo.
But I do think it’s an underlying problem that has been growing for the last ~3 seasons that people underrate.
I totally agree that we lack leaders and of course it is relevant....after we concede a goal it doesn't look like the 11 could get a hard on between them (other than maybe pickford who you'd assume would shoot too early in over excitment).
Post by: Trowel on February 22, 2019, 07:40:32 PM
I'd be happier if we focused on fitness rather than passion.
Post by: Mac934 on February 22, 2019, 08:02:18 PM
I disagree. I think the “crumbling” is merely conceding chances a because our midfield is shite and made even shitter by having to chase a game and allow the opposition more space to create, resulting in conceding yet more chances and free kicks in dangerous positions. That’s your “crumbling”.A leader on the pitch is someone who 'leads' the line usually by example. I can think of many leaders who are not 'dickheads who go running around beating their chests'.
Having a dickhead running around beating his chest won’t do anything to stop that.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on February 22, 2019, 08:20:21 PM
Re. a lack of leaders, remember last season when we had something like 6 current/ex national team captains playing at the same time, and we still rolled over.
I'd be happier if we focused on fitness rather than passion.
Or buying the right players and not having “captain” as essential in the search criteria
Post by: Lxxx on February 23, 2019, 10:03:21 PM
Post by: TheRam on February 23, 2019, 10:22:23 PM
Some people should read posts properly before they start with the smart comments.
I know exactly what he said, bud.
Post by: brap2 on March 11, 2019, 03:19:31 PM
With that in mind, I do wonder if he should ever start a game for us again the big handsome tit.
Post by: TheRam on March 11, 2019, 03:46:58 PM
First half was his best game for us I think.
With that in mind, I do wonder if he should ever start a game for us again the big handsome tit.
Why?
Post by: brap2 on March 11, 2019, 03:54:16 PM
Why?
Leaves gueye with too much to do I think. Is literally a black hole of a midfield with just him running about trying to cover.
I would be happy with him starting in a 3 but that doesn't look like it's going to happen, so he should be pulled out for Schneiderlin I think.
Got to be up there for most overrated Everton player of the last ten years, when it's going his way he looks absolutely superb, then when it's time to be a midfielder he is a total waste of space.
Post by: Cereal Killer on March 11, 2019, 04:02:04 PM
Leaves gueye with too much to do I think. Is literally a black hole of a midfield with just him running about trying to cover.
I would be happy with him starting in a 3 but that doesn't look like it's going to happen, so he should be pulled out for Schneiderlin I think.
Got to be up there for most overrated Everton player of the last ten years, when it's going his way he looks absolutely superb, then when it's time to be a midfielder he is a total waste of space.
Ahhhhhh the fabled Gana/Schneiderlin combination, that masterpiece of midfield that worked wonders whenever it was used last season
Post by: brap2 on March 11, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
Ahhhhhh the fabled Gana/Schneiderlin combination, that masterpiece of midfield that worked wonders whenever it was used last season
I know, I know, I can barely believe I'm saying it, but this 4-2-4 he's doing at the minute is fucking killing me. We're 30 odd games in and it's still happening.
If he can't play 3 real midfielders then he should at least play 2.
Andre Gomes is, while being so fun to watch when it's working, an absolute myth of a player I think.
Post by: TheTone on March 11, 2019, 05:47:14 PM
Post by: di_guyo on March 11, 2019, 06:12:04 PM
If the money is right then he's the first name on the team sheet for me next season, we've bigger issues throughout the team to sort out, a partner in the midfield with him for starters
Can't agree with this, or understand it. I haven't seen much from him at all, since the first few games, to suggest he's that level of player. I expected him to dictate the pace of the games and be a dominant force, but he's slipped to the standard of the rest. For me, he needs to be more of a presence and contribute more moving forwards with the ball. I'm still unconvinced whether he's worth signing (considering the likely hefty sum), never-mind being first name on the teamsheet - he's miles off that, for me.
Post by: Lxxx on March 11, 2019, 06:12:58 PM
Post by: TheRam on March 11, 2019, 06:16:34 PM
Cannot believe people are even contemplating the axis of Schneierlin/Gueye again. It's been almost unanimously slated as being the most one dimensional pairing we've had for many a year and should never be seen again. I'd even try McCarthy over Schneiderlin and that's really scraping the barrel.
It has literally worked in the last two games its been tried.
Maybe Silva is a manager that can get these two playing well together?
Post by: dazfrancis on March 11, 2019, 06:33:15 PM
If we are going to have a lot of the ball then it makes sense that Gomes should play.
To be fair it seemed to work for 60 mins yesterday. Everyone lost their heads once we conceded a goal
Post by: sam of the south on March 11, 2019, 06:35:10 PM
It has literally worked in the last two games its been tried.
Maybe Silva is a manager that can get these two playing well together?
Yeah, I’ve been thinking this.
Never been a big fan of Schneiderlin really, but just the fact he is positionally disciplined gave as a good foundation against Cardiff and Liverpool.
Plus, he has done two of the best passes this season, with the one to Coleman against Cardiff, and the free kick to Walcott earlier in the season.
That free-kick was such a false dawn, wasn’t it! I thought that it hinted that we had loads of cool routines in the bag, but we’ve done fuck all since!
Post by: Evertonian in NC on March 11, 2019, 06:45:27 PM
Surely we need to be looking at horses for courses.
If we are going to have a lot of the ball then it makes sense that Gomes should play.
To be fair it seemed to work for 60 mins yesterday. Everyone lost their heads once we conceded a goal
That's it 100%. In retrospect, we probably needed an extra DM for Richarlison, rather than Mina.
Still, I think not having Coleman was a real problem. Kenny can be bullied when the opposition makes a point to do so.
Post by: kramer0 on March 11, 2019, 07:09:08 PM
Gana and Gomes tend to get overrun without a third proper midfielder alongside them (this has been the pattern since December). Sigurdsson is generally positioned too far forward to help them out.
With Sigurdsson starting, I'm starting think we're better off playing a second defensive midfielder. It makes us stronger without the ball and the "loss" in distribution hardly matters because we're playing through our wingers and fullbacks anyway.
And when Silva does manage to "get away" with Gana-Gomes-Sigurdsson like he did in the first half on Saturday, it would be nice if he learned to shut the game down while he's ahead. Sigurdsson off, proper midfielder on. Now you have an extra body to shield the defense and get a hold of the ball further back, which can help relieve pressure.
Post by: Juanito on March 11, 2019, 07:11:36 PM
I know, I know, I can barely believe I'm saying it, but this 4-2-4 he's doing at the minute is fucking killing me. We're 30 odd games in and it's still happening.
If he can't play 3 real midfielders then he should at least play 2.
Andre Gomes is, while being so fun to watch when it's working, an absolute myth of a player I think.
I would like to see a 4-3-3 with Gana, Schneiderlin and Gomes. With 3 quick players up top. Issue is Sigurdsson is our top player for goals, chances created and record signing, so looks unlikely. I think Gomes is a good player but needs a defensive axis to support him.
Post by: Lxxx on March 11, 2019, 07:15:31 PM
It has literally worked in the last two games its been tried.
Maybe Silva is a manager that can get these two playing well together?
Yes, willing to be proved wrong on this one. Hopefully so too. I just have my doubts it'll last.
Post by: brap2 on March 11, 2019, 07:47:10 PM
I would like to see a 4-3-3 with Gana, Schneiderlin and Gomes. With 3 quick players up top. Issue is Sigurdsson is our top player for goals, chances created and record signing, so looks unlikely. I think Gomes is a good player but needs a defensive axis to support him.
Yeah I would myself, but gylfi seems undroppable doesn't he.
Strongly believe he needs selling and replacing with a proper creative cm.
Post by: BlueForYou on March 11, 2019, 08:19:24 PM
Keep Sigurdsson
Sell Gana
Sell Schneiderlin
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on March 11, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
Buy Gomes
Keep Sigurdsson
Sell Gana
Sell Schneiderlin
God help us.
Post by: BlueForYou on March 11, 2019, 10:35:43 PM
Fact
Post by: BlueForYou on March 11, 2019, 10:49:31 PM
10 goals a season from Sigurdsson - worth every £45m penny
£30m for Gana - take the money
Anything for Schneiderlin - Utd sussed him
Post by: brap2 on March 11, 2019, 10:51:01 PM
Weird that when we have a 45m number 10 and a cm who's better than arteta?
Post by: kramer0 on March 11, 2019, 11:01:31 PM
Post by: Ravardo on March 11, 2019, 11:06:42 PM
We are 11th in big chances created and 12th I open play chances creates apparently.
Weird that when we have a 45m number 10 and a cm who's better than arteta?
And everyone bangs on about needing a decent striker,,the game at the weekend the one most people think we played well in for 60mins,, we had 7 shots with 3 on target...2 of which were goals and then you look at them who had 19 shots 7 on target 3 of which were goals,,,weve been struggling at creating chances which seems like forever...we need a creative midfield badly as the one trick pony wing play is that productive either
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on March 11, 2019, 11:17:41 PM
God - another myth
Fact
Totally agree. God sigurdsson and Gomes all myths
We’ll be fucked without gueye
Post by: BlueForYou on March 11, 2019, 11:40:10 PM
Unless you're thinking of keeping him for another 5/6 years?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on March 12, 2019, 12:17:25 AM
Depends who replaces Gana
Unless you're thinking of keeping him for another 5/6 years?
Gonna have to be someone bloody good to go Gomes and sigurdssons work. Could do with a playmaker too seeing as sigurdsson isn’t really up to it. A Messi Kante hybred maybe. Or we could just not keep sigurdsson and Gomes
Post by: kramer0 on March 12, 2019, 12:30:37 AM
Gonna have to be someone bloody good to go Gomes and sigurdssons work. Could do with a playmaker too seeing as sigurdsson isn’t really up to it. A Messi Kante hybred maybe. Or we could just not keep sigurdsson and Gomes
That's basically the problem with our midfield options. All specialists, no balanced skill sets.
If you're the opposition, all you have to do is force one player to do something he's not comfortable with and the whole thing goes to shit.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on March 12, 2019, 01:09:53 AM
That's basically the problem with our midfield options. All specialists, no balanced skill sets.And the "one of them" is usually Sigg, Gomes is much more capable of switching roles.
If you're the opposition, all you have to do is force one player to do something he's not comfortable with and the whole thing goes to shit.
Post by: formerKHL on March 12, 2019, 02:31:14 AM
My 2 cents ......anyone who thinks Gomes is not good enough or we shouldn’t sign him needs to stop smoking their toenails....
Post by: brap2 on March 12, 2019, 02:35:00 AM
Can’t be arsed reading this thread but based on other threads would hazard a guess the jist is Gomes is not good enough....I may be wrong..
My 2 cents ......anyone who thinks Gomes is not good enough or we shouldn’t sign him needs to stop smoking their toenails....
Still dependant on fee and wages for me.
Would like to see him in a three as well where he can just be pretty and fancy and occasionally slip through players like an oiled ferret.
Post by: Martip on March 12, 2019, 03:16:30 AM
Still dependant on fee and wages for me.I think we ll regret it if we let him slip through our fingers.
Would like to see him in a three as well where he can just be pretty and fancy and occasionally slip through players like an oiled ferret.
Post by: Jamokachi on March 12, 2019, 03:29:17 AM
Post by: Hesmenos on March 12, 2019, 04:00:15 PM
Post by: Macca77 on March 12, 2019, 04:11:37 PM
Post by: Lxxx on March 12, 2019, 04:41:39 PM
Post by: brap2 on March 12, 2019, 04:45:13 PM
I don't think he is defensively good enough to play in a 2 man midfield, or at least not alongside Gana. Gana is our best ball winner by far but has a tendency to wander all over the pitch which leaves Gomes exposed on his own once they pass him. The thing is that most of his career he has played further up the pitch, or at least with a proper DM behind him. That's why I'd like to see him play with Schneiderlin. He wouldn't use up all his energy chasing shadows in defence and can concentrate on what he is good at which is linking defence to attack.
Yep, think he needs to be a link player. At the moment has nobody to link with.
Another fun fact - out of all the centre midfield pairings in the league, have a guess who is bottom for chances created.
I'll give you a clue, it's us and we're shite.
Post by: Jimmywhack on March 20, 2019, 09:32:14 PM
Bound to be west ham
Post by: WeimaranerBlues on March 20, 2019, 09:36:28 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on March 20, 2019, 09:37:39 PM
Post by: Macca77 on March 20, 2019, 09:38:04 PM
https://twitter.com/BarcaTimes/status/1108344308388765696?s=19
Bound to be west ham
25 million euros, what's that in proper money?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on March 20, 2019, 09:39:41 PM
25 million euros, what's that in proper money?
You mean Ameri-quid, or Brexit Bucks? :D
Post by: Jimmywhack on March 20, 2019, 09:42:30 PM
25 million euros, what's that in proper money?Be about 24m now. Come June God knows
Post by: Macca77 on March 20, 2019, 09:56:19 PM
Be about 24m now. Come June God knows
Bargain
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on March 20, 2019, 10:01:48 PM
25 million euros, what's that in proper money?
21,514,629.90
Post by: Macca77 on March 20, 2019, 10:08:06 PM
21,514,629.90
Cheap as chips
Post by: kramer0 on March 20, 2019, 11:26:28 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on March 20, 2019, 11:29:44 PM
Despite his obvious technical inferiority, I honestly think Tom Davies is a better player.Big shout that tbh
Post by: Bluedylan on March 20, 2019, 11:33:33 PM
Post by: TheRam on March 20, 2019, 11:40:16 PM
Big shout that tbh
I fully agree with it.
Post by: Macca77 on March 20, 2019, 11:48:05 PM
Despite his obvious technical inferiority, I honestly think Tom Davies is a better player.
What have you been smoking!?
Post by: brap2 on March 21, 2019, 12:11:45 AM
We've had pretty much a full season now and he's not done enough to justify signing him, in my opinion.
I'd take him for 25m euros like.
Post by: Thornton_19 on March 21, 2019, 12:16:42 AM
Despite his obvious technical inferiority, I honestly think Tom Davies is a better player.Agree with you. I feel people over rate Gomes because he looks classy on the ball whereas Davies is underrated because he looks erratic and clumsy.
Post by: Dr. Sponge on March 21, 2019, 12:18:51 AM
Davies is a promising talent as well, we don’t have to choose one over the other, we can have both. But we also need another addition to the midfield because the balance in the team isn’t great. It’s been better lately with Schneiderlin coming back but we know how unreliable he can be.
In my opinion, the key is replacing Sigurdson’s goal threat and phasing him out so we can have a more rounded, solid and dynamic midfield unit, rather than specialists in certain areas, e.g. Sigurdson and Gueye
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Post by: Jimmywhack on March 21, 2019, 12:21:57 AM
I fully agree with it.Potentially Davies could be anything, better now than gomes?
Nah
Post by: Bluedylan on March 21, 2019, 12:48:44 AM
I'd take him for 25m euros like.
Would you not be looking for someone younger and with a higher ceiling around Europe?
I think he's decent but I don't see him being a difference maker in his position.
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on March 21, 2019, 01:05:45 AM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on March 21, 2019, 01:40:00 AM
Agree with you. I feel people over rate Gomes because he looks classy on the ball whereas Davies is underrated because he looks erratic and clumsy.Both good players
Post by: Lxxx on March 21, 2019, 03:29:33 AM
Would take him if he's prepared to be a squad player. Should Gana leave then we are looking at two new players in the midfield birth to start games. Gomes for me is not one of them.
Not sure why you'd be looking to spend £20m+ on someone who you'd be looking at as no more than a squad player. We'll have a hard time this summer trying to offload a number of expensive players who are no more than squad fillers, we don't need another that isn't going to bring the quality we need to push us forward.
Post by: brap2 on March 21, 2019, 03:43:02 AM
Would you not be looking for someone younger and with a higher ceiling around Europe?
I think he's decent but I don't see him being a difference maker in his position.
Welcome to the party haha.
But yeah I don't really see him as a difference maker and I am very much saying sign him at that price with the proviso that we sign someone else who actually does good stuff, but I think there are some good points to signing him :
You probably could sign someone younger with a higher ceiling for less (billing for example you'd probably get for less than 15), but there's a lot to be said for a player settling into the league and culture of the club. Whatever you can say about Gomes he has settled very well and taken to the club and fans really well. He seems well liked, eg his shoulder bump with Mina after Richarlison goal (if you haven't seen this watch it ASAP ) and in terms of being an ambassador for the club he talks well and seems well regarded.
It can take players up to 2 years to get to that point, so if the price is right and it feels a positive move to the staff and players, and on a personal note frankly he's a very nice player to watch (even if I wish he did more) then I don't mind that. There's bigger mistakes you can make.
Re the statistical argument for Andre gomes - I mean, he's never going to be the player it was thought he could have been, and he's not going to be like a take the game by the scruff of the neck player, but in terms of deep ball progressions per 90 which is a metric used to track effectiveness of midfield players moving the ball up from defensive zones into more impactful ones - he's actually been within the top 20 in Europe's big leagues this season despite not having his best year and playing for a shit side, according to what I've been following, and that is something we've missed since barkley runs and Barry's passing.
If we don't get him I won't be assed because my original prediction was he'd be hounded out by now for being a more handsome but less effective Morgan Schneiderlin, but he's shown enough to me and has a positive enough feeling around the squad to say if the price is right then it won't be a huge mistake.
Post by: brap2 on March 21, 2019, 03:52:26 AM
Not 100% related but it was reported that Richarlison wanted to come because he had a bit of a language problem after Marco left ,it is interesting to see they have built a small group now of Portuguese speaking .I am sure it is no coincidence despite Marco being from Portugal it will help them all bed in easier
A good point worth remembering I think.
Brandsy likes signing South Americans, so does silva, also silva likes a little Portuguese connection so keeping a well liked high profile player that other players are comfortable playing with..
What @Mick 1995 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=390) would probably call a side of football that is not measurable by stats.
Post by: Mick 1995 on March 21, 2019, 05:36:19 PM
Although, i *do* like stats and have just read through the Keane ones you posted.
I'm just very dubious that any stats are any more than a small part of the decision when it comes to bringing players in for reasons exactly like this.
I think that they should play a bigger part in showing a player the door though. Because whilst those other variables that can't be measured exist, i admit they are only temporary and a season worth of metrics is enough to know if a player is going to gel into your system.
Post by: Macca77 on March 21, 2019, 06:00:07 PM
Post by: brap2 on March 21, 2019, 06:01:54 PM
Yeah, absolutely.
Although, i *do* like stats and have just read through the Keane ones you posted.
I'm just very dubious that any stats are any more than a small part of the decision when it comes to bringing players in for reasons exactly like this.
I think that they should play a bigger part in showing a player the door though. Because whilst those other variables that can't be measured exist, i admit they are only temporary and a season worth of metrics is enough to know if a player is going to gel into your system.
I know you've your doubts my mate and I'm much more flexible on them these days. Hence why I'm making a case for Andre.
He's a good case study tho right? He looks great, glides about the pitch, brushes people off... But he's 25/26 and now at three clubs of varying sizes and styles he's performed exactly the same way. Lots of dribbles, OK passing, not great creatively or from a goalscoring POV... We got exactly what the stats bods said we would and generally this pans out across players careers.
I know you are of the belief that what a player does on the pitch is mostly dictated by their manager, but when you have several seasons of data you can see stylistic or behavioural patterns that show the players skill set, it's just a fact. Tony Hibbert isn't going to become a multiple player per game dribbler like Dani Alves under pep, in the same way Dani Alves won't be able to do 6 foot slide tackles under Moyes.
Players have abilities and styles and when you know what you need in your side you can recruit someone of that profile and make your recruiting more effective.
If you need to see this in effect please take a look at the league table, or have a look at how the shite are getting on.
Edit: think I've just been having a totally different conversation to you haha sorry mate.
I agree, stats should be a part of the decision not the whole thing. Your eyes, culture fit, personality, age and fitness etc. All important.
Post by: Mick 1995 on March 21, 2019, 06:08:12 PM
For what it's worth, they have gone up in my estimation this season and i think there are certain decisions made where they are utterly indespensable. To the point where they are amongst the first things i check when linked to a player now.
I still haven't moved from my rigid "Football isn't Baseball" stance though.
Post by: TheRam on March 21, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
Are there any examples of moneyball type situations in football being successful?
Brentford maybe?
Post by: Crackling on March 21, 2019, 07:12:45 PM
Big, strong, technically superb, good dribbler, takes the ball under pressure.....doesn't score or assist many.
I think most people on here would have been happy if we had signed Dembele in his mid 20s.
I'd love to see him sign permanently.
Post by: Macca77 on March 21, 2019, 07:19:56 PM
https://twitter.com/charles_stevo/status/1108670647490805761
Post by: Gary1878 on March 21, 2019, 07:30:00 PM
I do think a lot of our players have underperformed this season, and expect better next season. They should have all bedded in properly, and had a lot more stability to push on.
Post by: Jimmywhack on March 21, 2019, 07:38:42 PM
He reminds me a bit of Moussa Dembele from Spurs.Funny you say that as Spurs are linked with him now
Big, strong, technically superb, good dribbler, takes the ball under pressure.....doesn't score or assist many.
I think most people on here would have been happy if we had signed Dembele in his mid 20s.
I'd love to see him sign permanently.
Post by: TheRam on March 21, 2019, 07:45:35 PM
No idea how reliable this fella is like,
https://twitter.com/charles_stevo/status/1108670647490805761
Blag account
Post by: kramer0 on March 21, 2019, 08:24:18 PM
If Gomes had that in his game, I think I'd be on board.
As is, I'd rather go for Sander Berge if we're looking for a Dembele-esque player. He has the baseline skills, is cheaper, and has way more defensive upside than Gomes.
Post by: Bluedylan on March 21, 2019, 08:27:08 PM
Welcome to the party haha.
But yeah I don't really see him as a difference maker and I am very much saying sign him at that price with the proviso that we sign someone else who actually does good stuff, but I think there are some good points to signing him :
You probably could sign someone younger with a higher ceiling for less (billing for example you'd probably get for less than 15), but there's a lot to be said for a player settling into the league and culture of the club. Whatever you can say about Gomes he has settled very well and taken to the club and fans really well. He seems well liked, eg his shoulder bump with Mina after Richarlison goal (if you haven't seen this watch it ASAP ) and in terms of being an ambassador for the club he talks well and seems well regarded.
It can take players up to 2 years to get to that point, so if the price is right and it feels a positive move to the staff and players, and on a personal note frankly he's a very nice player to watch (even if I wish he did more) then I don't mind that. There's bigger mistakes you can make.
Re the statistical argument for Andre gomes - I mean, he's never going to be the player it was thought he could have been, and he's not going to be like a take the game by the scruff of the neck player, but in terms of deep ball progressions per 90 which is a metric used to track effectiveness of midfield players moving the ball up from defensive zones into more impactful ones - he's actually been within the top 20 in Europe's big leagues this season despite not having his best year and playing for a shit side, according to what I've been following, and that is something we've missed since barkley runs and Barry's passing.
If we don't get him I won't be assed because my original prediction was he'd be hounded out by now for being a more handsome but less effective Morgan Schneiderlin, but he's shown enough to me and has a positive enough feeling around the squad to say if the price is right then it won't be a huge mistake.
I just didn't think there was enough evidence to form a proper opinion on him earlier in the season. People were saying 'sign him' or 'no ta' based on three games. I said at the time, let's see how he goes through the winter and through the labours of a full season and get a fuller picture.
And now that's happened, I don't quite think there's enough there to lash a sizeable amount of money on. We've wasted so much money over the last few years, and it's critical that every penny is well considered now. I'd sooner spend £40m on a Richarlison-level player in Gomes' position than £25m on Gomes, personally.
I think you were at the party a bit too early.
Post by: van der Meyde on March 21, 2019, 09:12:52 PM
I think you were at the party a bit too early.I mean these judgements were based on his career to-date, rather than just 3 or 4 games in an Everton shirt.
He's surpassed my expectations, but it's still not quite enough for me for the money talked about.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on March 21, 2019, 09:27:19 PM
Especially if we lose Gana, we need someone familiar with our setup to remain.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on March 21, 2019, 09:33:33 PM
I mean these judgements were based on his career to-date, rather than just 3 or 4 games in an Everton shirt.For the money talked about? It’s not 1995 mate. Anything around £20m-£25m is a steal, I think.
He's surpassed my expectations, but it's still not quite enough for me for the money talked about.
Gomes, Mina and Bernard will all be so much better next season, having had a pre-season.
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Post by: kramer0 on March 21, 2019, 09:45:46 PM
If your scouting team can't do better, sack them all.
Post by: van der Meyde on March 21, 2019, 10:04:42 PM
For the money talked about? It’s not 1995 mate. Anything around £20m-£25m is a steal, I think.I mean, I'm never going to think £20m for a player who I don't think is particularly effective is a good deal. You wouldn't either. We just rate him differently.
Gomes, Mina and Bernard will all be so much better next season, having had a pre-season.
Sent from my iPhone using NSNO Everton Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)
Apart from dribbling skills, I don't think he offers us anywhere near enough in defence or attack.
We don't have infinite money and, as @Bluedylan (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3747) suggested, I'd just rather we spent our money on someone with more upside/effect on the scoreline.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on March 22, 2019, 12:56:14 AM
£20-25m plus something like his Barca wage is way too much for someone who's a rotation player at best for an actual good side.Bollocks, he's been a shinning light in a tactical cluster fuck that has been our midfield all fucking season
If your scouting team can't do better, sack them all.
Post by: gizzblue on March 22, 2019, 01:05:35 AM
Post by: brap2 on March 22, 2019, 02:51:19 AM
Imho we would be mental to pass up on a player who has atributes we sorely lack in other players in the midfield .
what are they
Post by: Juanito on March 22, 2019, 02:55:12 AM
Post by: Bob Sacamano on March 22, 2019, 03:21:29 AM
Post by: van der Meyde on March 22, 2019, 04:41:55 AM
I’m convinced in a balanced midfield he will be ace. Especially at the price quoted and the fact he is making the right signs to stay. He is the number 8 we have been after in my eyes. I think he would absolutely shine with a Gareth Barry type player in there with him and Gana.I guess the question I would ask is on what basis you think this?
He didn’t shine in a balanced Barcelona midfield and he didn’t particularly shine at Valencia either, what gives you this faith in him?
Post by: Juanito on March 22, 2019, 01:11:40 PM
I guess the question I would ask is on what basis you think this?
He didn’t shine in a balanced Barcelona midfield and he didn’t particularly shine at Valencia either, what gives you this faith in him?
Firstly, it can take players from abroad a season to settle in the premiership. A manager will consider that. Roberto Firmino was considered a flop in his first season, 2015. I could name countless others and so could you.
He his not at the level needed to play at Barcelona, the best side in world football arguably, otherwise he wouldn’t be here. They also require a particular style of La Masia player that is a rare quality to find. Arthur Melo seems to have it.
Did you watch him at Valencia? He was outstanding. That’s why Barcelona signed him in the first place. Also, when he signed here, he was the best player for us until after the Derby. He was the best player on the pitch in the Derby and demonstrated qualities we just don’t have in the middle of the park. Keep hold of the ball, skill, can play box to box, strength, can pass the ball forward.
He looked knackered around Christmas at a time he is not used to playing (also hardly used at Barce) and has been part of what looks like an unbalanced side.
He also has good work rate. Take a look at some of those performances for Valencia and re visit the Derby at Anfield.
Post by: Macca77 on March 22, 2019, 01:22:36 PM
Post by: Juanito on March 22, 2019, 01:30:08 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SE5-H1F1HkQ
Post by: Toddacelli on March 22, 2019, 01:38:26 PM
Nobody needs Andre Gomes.
I do :blush:
Post by: Toddacelli on March 22, 2019, 01:48:35 PM
He is also used to taking up an advanced position where he had more time to take players on, play through balls etc.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SE5-H1F1HkQ
Fuck me! He's a better Siggy than Siggy!
We need to play him further up the pitch. You can have your McCarthy/Schniederlin midfield - just drop Sigurdsson for Gomes.
Whoever & Whoever
Richarlison Bernard
Gomes
DCL
Post by: stirlingblue on March 22, 2019, 01:51:38 PM
I'm convinced in a balanced midfield he will be ace. Especially at the price quoted and the fact he is making the right signs to stay. He is the number 8 we have been after in my eyes. I think he would absolutely shine with a Gareth Barry type player in there with him and Gana.
If he needs a Gana and a Barry to get the best out of him then there’s no point in signing him as we ain’t dropping Sig so we need somebody who shines in a midfield two, not a three.
Personally, I don’t see an upside on him and as he is right now he’s good enough to start for a for a top half team but not a top 6 team so we shouldn’t be throwing money at him.
Post by: Juanito on March 22, 2019, 02:39:22 PM
If he needs a Gana and a Barry to get the best out of him then there’s no point in signing him as we ain’t dropping Sig so we need somebody who shines in a midfield two, not a three.
Personally, I don’t see an upside on him and as he is right now he’s good enough to start for a for a top half team but not a top 6 team so we shouldn’t be throwing money at him.
Oh come on!
Post by: TheRam on March 22, 2019, 02:56:14 PM
He’ll become nothing more than an impact player.
Post by: Hawkandro on March 22, 2019, 03:48:14 PM
As is, I'd rather go for Sander Berge if we're looking for a Dembele-esque player. He has the baseline skills, is cheaper, and has way more defensive upside than Gomes.
Could they play together? I would like to sign Gomes, but at the same time I think we would have to maybe switch the CM around to get the best out of him?
Post by: dazfrancis on March 22, 2019, 05:32:12 PM
He is also used to taking up an advanced position where he had more time to take players on, play through balls etc.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SE5-H1F1HkQ
Probably worth seeing what damage he could do playing in a more advanced role, based on this.
Post by: brap2 on March 22, 2019, 06:39:32 PM
His use to us is as a link player, dribbling forwards and passing forwards accurately to players in more dangerous positions.
Post by: Toddacelli on March 22, 2019, 07:08:21 PM
He didn't have good creative numbers at valencia or barca so can't imagine them suddenly jumping up.
His use to us is as a link player, dribbling forwards and passing forwards accurately to players in more dangerous positions.
But service hasn't been great for attacking players in the real danger areas so why not move him up?
Post by: BlueBeagle on March 22, 2019, 07:39:29 PM
As is, I'd rather go for Sander Berge if we're looking for a Dembele-esque player. He has the baseline skills, is cheaper, and has way more defensive upside than Gomes.
Watch a lot of Genk games then yeah?
Seriously doubt it somehow.
Post by: gizzblue on March 22, 2019, 07:51:12 PM
what are they
1)Comfort on the ball (sorely lacking )
and a huge requirement in any midfield .
2)ability to hold off a player or two
3)a range of passing
4)ability to go past a man using strength or guile.
Spot me another in our line up can do all of these ...in a good day Davies might get two out the four , he may get to Gomes level i hope over time but he's not there yet .
We have nobody of the same ilk. ..we could do with a couple in reality .
Post by: van der Meyde on March 22, 2019, 08:36:14 PM
Firstly, it can take players from abroad a season to settle in the premiership. A manager will consider that. Roberto Firmino was considered a flop in his first season, 2015. I could name countless others and so could you.Fair enough.
He his not at the level needed to play at Barcelona, the best side in world football arguably, otherwise he wouldn’t be here. They also require a particular style of La Masia player that is a rare quality to find. Arthur Melo seems to have it.
Did you watch him at Valencia? He was outstanding. That’s why Barcelona signed him in the first place. Also, when he signed here, he was the best player for us until after the Derby. He was the best player on the pitch in the Derby and demonstrated qualities we just don’t have in the middle of the park. Keep hold of the ball, skill, can play box to box, strength, can pass the ball forward.
He looked knackered around Christmas at a time he is not used to playing (also hardly used at Barce) and has been part of what looks like an unbalanced side.
He also has good work rate. Take a look at some of those performances for Valencia and re visit the Derby at Anfield.
I did watch him at Valencia, I just didn't really think he was particularly effective there either. I've just gone back and watched a couple of his Youtubes from his time there. He just doesn't do it for me right now.
It's not that I don't think he has talent, I just don't think he does enough with it. I did criticise Gueye quite a lot last season too though but think he's mostly been excellent this season, so hopefully the same happens again.
Post by: BlueForYou on March 22, 2019, 09:06:50 PM
Post by: D15TIN on March 22, 2019, 11:24:16 PM
Inter interested (Milan, not Miami!)I think he'd turn down most clubs for Everton at the moment.
Post by: bluenuck on March 23, 2019, 10:38:01 AM
Watch a lot of Genk games then yeah?
Seriously doubt it somehow.
He doesn’t.
Berge is a well known name around the stats bomb guys and football manager worlds.
He’s Just regurgitating it all. Never comes up with anyone really new that no ones ever talked about, but comes across looking brilliant naming names like Berge and akanji.
in reality these guys are tough to get after they’ve become known about. Berge has been linked with arsenal before. He’d go there in a heartbeat before us.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on March 23, 2019, 02:54:54 PM
There’s this thing called the internet and you can stream all sorts of games from all sorts of countries. There’s even sites that facilitate the watching of highlights of all sorts of games around the globe.
Post by: BlueBeagle on March 23, 2019, 03:23:46 PM
He may not watch Genk games but how do you two knobs know he doesn’t?
There’s this thing called the internet and you can stream all sorts of games from all sorts of countries. There’s even sites that facilitate the watching of highlights of all sorts of games around the globe.
I asked him if he did if you care to read the post properly.
Thanks for your input though, it was excellent.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on March 23, 2019, 04:39:25 PM
I asked him if he did if you care to read the post properly.
Thanks for your input though, it was excellent.
No you made your usual snide remark and then the knob who quoted you answered the lad on his behalf.
Let’s not pretend that you were actually asking if he watched Genk games - we all know from your posts that you were being a bellend.
Post by: BlueBeagle on March 23, 2019, 05:22:56 PM
No you made your usual snide remark and then the knob who quoted you answered the lad on his behalf.
Let’s not pretend that you were actually asking if he watched Genk games - we all know from your posts that you were being a bellend.
I asked him if he watched Genk games as he keeps bleating on about a lad that plays for them.
I also then stated that I don't believe that he actually watches any Genk games because, and let's be fucking honest, nobody watches that league.
Back in your box.
Post by: TheRam on March 23, 2019, 06:05:58 PM
I asked him if he watched Genk games as he keeps bleating on about a lad that plays for them.
I also then stated that I don't believe that he actually watches any Genk games because, and let's be fucking honest, nobody watches that league.
Back in your box.
Why are you arsed?
Post by: BlueBeagle on March 23, 2019, 06:13:11 PM
Why are you arsed?
Not arsed in the slightest, just curious to see if he's actually watched the kid play before repeatedly telling us how he's the potential answer to our prayers.
Post by: kramer0 on March 23, 2019, 07:20:33 PM
I'm not a professional scout, I'm some guy on an internet forum.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on March 23, 2019, 09:34:42 PM
Not arsed in the slightest, just curious to see if he's actually watched the kid play before repeatedly telling us how he's the potential answer to our prayers.
Coulda fooled me. Pretty much each of your posts i see on here is you stressing out and giving it the bifftas.
I’ll go find my box.
Post by: Dr. Sponge on March 24, 2019, 01:27:59 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on March 31, 2019, 04:34:07 AM
Post by: gizzblue on March 31, 2019, 05:40:22 AM
Also like to see the snide in him coming out a bit . :thumbsup: just what we need .
Post by: charlatan on March 31, 2019, 02:34:41 PM
Post by: Macca77 on April 02, 2019, 03:30:48 PM
Post by: Lxxx on April 02, 2019, 03:38:23 PM
I do think though that the current front three in these positions, with their movement and guile, will bring the best out of him. He can now look up and see a pass whereas beforehand he had either Richarlison dropping deep or Walcott ambling around not offering much penetration. The change of position seems to suit Richarlison and has reignited some enthusiasm and Bernard seems to have upped his game too. A genuine run of games for DCL won't harm his development either.
Post by: gizzblue on April 02, 2019, 04:45:20 PM
Post by: brap2 on April 02, 2019, 04:49:18 PM
Post by: Toddacelli on April 05, 2019, 10:01:41 PM
Very happy to get him signed at an appropriate price, but think we will still need a creative CM and a replacement for Gueye.
Would like to see Gomes and Gueye (or more likely Gueye's replacement) with Vlasic in front of them.
Post by: Shogun on April 05, 2019, 10:24:49 PM
https://twitter.com/philkecho/status/1112990986211418114
Not a very catchy chant
Post by: Tinga on April 05, 2019, 10:41:25 PM
Post by: Alanvideo on April 05, 2019, 11:20:49 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/04/05/tottenham-looking-snatch-30m-rated-andre-gomes-noses-everton/
Post by: BlueForYou on April 05, 2019, 11:31:36 PM
Pickford, next
Post by: gizzblue on April 05, 2019, 11:35:34 PM
As @Tinga (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1082) says ,Spurs looking to ''snatch'' him..............
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/04/05/tottenham-looking-snatch-30m-rated-andre-gomes-noses-everton/
Tom Davies likes this . :thumbsup:
Post by: Macca77 on April 05, 2019, 11:37:27 PM
Gomes, Keane, Gana, Richarlison - going?
Pickford, next
Have a day off
Post by: Brownie on April 06, 2019, 12:07:27 AM
Post by: Simon Paul on April 06, 2019, 12:08:12 AM
I have a feeling we've already sorted Gomes for next seasonI'd bet my house on it
Post by: BlueForYou on April 06, 2019, 12:13:49 AM
Post by: Hawkandro on April 06, 2019, 01:27:58 AM
Odd that...
Post by: Gash on April 07, 2019, 10:25:26 PM
Post by: Silas on April 07, 2019, 10:27:48 PM
I was starting to wonder about him but the last few games have shown how his stats don't always stack up well. It's often what he does deeper in the park, picking up the ball, winning it, protecting it then making the pass or drawing a foul. That and a couple of his long passes were superb today. He'll never be a player who's game is built on goals and assists but it doesn't mean he isn't very good.
I think his style is bringing out creativity in others. Sigurdsson, Richarlison and Calvert Lewin all seem to be benefitting.
Post by: Macca77 on April 07, 2019, 10:29:26 PM
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on April 07, 2019, 10:30:26 PM
I think his style is bringing out creativity in others. Sigurdsson, Richarlison and Calvert Lewin all seem to be benefitting.He’s got a touch of Dembélé about him.
Sent from my iPhone using NSNO Everton Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)
Post by: blue1948 on April 07, 2019, 10:33:22 PM
We had less possession Bernard done fuck all ,Coleman done fuck all ,in fact no one did fuck all except the oldest scorer in the prem. this season .I rest my case .
Post by: TheRam on April 07, 2019, 10:38:41 PM
He’s got a touch of Dembélé about him.
Sent from my iPhone using NSNO Everton Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)
Very good comparison that.
He was another player who’s stats across the park were less than impressive but anyone could see what a great player he was.
Post by: Silas on April 07, 2019, 10:38:56 PM
He’s got a touch of Dembélé about him.
Sent from my iPhone using NSNO Everton Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)
He holds it and drives forward like Dembélé for sure
Post by: Cozzie on April 07, 2019, 10:57:21 PM
It's one of my favorite things about his style.
Deffo think game by game it's becoming more apparent we need to sign him.
Post by: brap2 on April 07, 2019, 11:03:30 PM
I was starting to wonder about him but the last few games have shown how his stats don't always stack up well. It's often what he does deeper in the park, picking up the ball, winning it, protecting it then making the pass or drawing a foul. That and a couple of his long passes were superb today. He'll never be a player who's game is built on goals and assists but it doesn't mean he isn't very good.
I think he can still be more progressive with his passing sometimes, I know it doesn't seem like it but he doesn't pass forward very often during a game compared to average prem midfielders, but he does clearly have the quality to do so when you look at some of them switches in play today.
But what can you say, maybe another midfielder with that sort of passing or gylfi increasing his passes would sort it, and you have to say when he's on song he's a joy to watch.
Post by: GLewis on April 07, 2019, 11:07:03 PM
One of the most intangibles in football is finding players who fit the environment, both of the club but also the league in general.
I think he does that with physicality, ability to use both feet and time on the ball.
Calming the hurly burly of the PL is very difficult and should be considered when looking at stats from players from different leagues.
Post by: 74Blue on April 07, 2019, 11:14:42 PM
As @Rhys (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=366) said to me today, it’s like the games in slow motion (in a good way) when he’s playing.That pretty much hits the nail on the head when analysing Gomes. It looks effortless and he just oozes class. Having someone like Gana next to him to do all the dirty work helps him immensely, but give him the ball and you can pretty much guarantee it going straight to another royal blue shirt.
One of the most intangibles in football is finding players who fit the environment, both of the club but also the league in general.
I think he does that with physicality, ability to use both feet and time on the ball.
Calming the hurly burly of the PL is very difficult and should be considered when looking at stats from players from different leagues.
If we can secure him permanently in the summer and get him a full pre-season, I think he will be an absolute bargain.
Post by: brap2 on April 07, 2019, 11:18:27 PM
As @Rhys (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=366) said to me today, it’s like the games in slow motion (in a good way) when he’s playing.
One of the most intangibles in football is finding players who fit the environment, both of the club but also the league in general.
I think he does that with physicality, ability to use both feet and time on the ball.
Calming the hurly burly of the PL is very difficult and should be considered when looking at stats from players from different leagues.
Re your second paragraph I do agree, finding someone who buys into the manager and seems to fit the culture and dressing room, hard to put a financial or statistical figure on it but it's so important.
We just need to make sure that open play creativity comes from somewhere, because it is still an issue.
Post by: Macca77 on April 07, 2019, 11:23:02 PM
Post by: GLewis on April 07, 2019, 11:24:02 PM
Re your second paragraph I do agree, finding someone who buys into the manager and seems to fit the culture and dressing room, hard to put a financial or statistical figure on it but it's so important.
We just need to make sure that open play creativity comes from somewhere, because it is still an issue.
Yes, just something I think that decision makers will be aware of.
Post by: Goaljira on April 08, 2019, 12:31:27 AM
Post by: Juanito on April 08, 2019, 12:35:15 AM
Post by: GLewis on April 08, 2019, 12:46:15 AM
Was behind Barkley and Pogba, but that suggested players that are prepared to take the ball and move with it in the most congested part of the pitch
Post by: 74Blue on April 08, 2019, 12:51:20 AM
People saying Gueye next to him his doing all the dirty work isnt giving enough respect the the sheer amount of off the ball work Gomes does.It doesn't go completely unnoticed, but Gana does complement him perfectly in the middle. He's a proper little terrier, constantly battling away winning tackle after tackle, and that does give Gomes a lot more chance to show his class with the ball at his feet.
Post by: Escla on April 08, 2019, 12:52:16 AM
It's like he never loses the ball.
It's one of my favorite things about his style.
Deffo think game by game it's becoming more apparent we need to sign him.
True, but game by game I reckon his price goes up a couple of million, hope we are willing to pay 40 odd million for him ?
Post by: TheRam on April 08, 2019, 12:57:06 AM
Saw the other day that he’d lost the ball 3rd most times in PL.
Was behind Barkley and Pogba, but that suggested players that are prepared to take the ball and move with it in the most congested part of the pitch
Saw a similar stat about Richarlison.
He was behind zaha and Salah so I disregarded it.
Post by: TheRam on April 08, 2019, 12:58:54 AM
True, but game by game I reckon his price goes up a couple of million, hope we are willing to pay 40 odd million for him ?
That doesn’t happen.
A few good performances won’t hike up his value.
It’ll be boxed for the 20-25 mil mooted when we signed him
Post by: 74Blue on April 08, 2019, 12:59:44 AM
True, but game by game I reckon his price goes up a couple of million, hope we are willing to pay 40 odd million for him ?You would hope that we have already held some dicussions with Barcelona about his future, and that we would already have a pretty good idea of their asking price. In an ideal world, we'd already have the deal agreed in principle, with just a couple of signatures required to make it happen as soon as the window opens. The player has made it quite clear that he's happy to stay, we want him to stay, Barcelona want him off their hands, so the deal is there to be done.
The way that Brands has conducted his business so far suggests that he is smart enough to have already asked the question of Barcelona and it's probably just a formality now.
Post by: GLewis on April 08, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
Saw a similar stat about Richarlison.
He was behind zaha and Salah so I disregarded it.
Being willing to keep going is a massive asset to have.
It’s not just blind optimism but it is very hard to keep going when the crowd starts moaning.
Zaha can do what he wants at Palace but players for us get hammered for stuff like that, so it’s encouraging of players get through it.
Post by: brap2 on April 08, 2019, 01:13:01 AM
Saw the other day that he’d lost the ball 3rd most times in PL.
Was behind Barkley and Pogba, but that suggested players that are prepared to take the ball and move with it in the most congested part of the pitch
He also will take 4 touches when 2 will do a lot because he is so good at evading pressure that he likes to invite it on.
Post by: Escla on April 08, 2019, 01:15:44 AM
That doesn’t happen.
A few good performances won’t hike up his value.
It’ll be boxed for the 20-25 mil mooted when we signed him
He would be an absolute snip at 20-30 million compared to Koemans signings
Post by: brap2 on April 08, 2019, 01:16:47 AM
Saw a similar stat about Richarlison.
He was behind zaha and Salah so I disregarded it.
Seen the same, I think it matches the eye tho to be fair. The situations in which those players lose the ball is slightly different but not a million miles away.
Think Richarlison has been a lot better on the ball recently though, burgeoning connection with Coleman too. Looking for each other constantly, and no matter how Richarlison plays he always finds a way to sniff out at least one good chance.
Post by: GLewis on April 08, 2019, 01:20:49 AM
He also will take 4 touches when 2 will do a lot because he is so good at evading pressure that he likes to invite it on.
Yes - choosing to believe that this will phase out with more awareness of PL wildness.
Post by: Silas on April 08, 2019, 01:37:03 AM
Seen the same, I think it matches the eye tho to be fair. The situations in which those players lose the ball is slightly different but not a million miles away.
Think Richarlison has been a lot better on the ball recently though, burgeoning connection with Coleman too. Looking for each other constantly, and no matter how Richarlison plays he always finds a way to sniff out at least one good chance.
Bernard's great but I reckon Richarlison is always going to be that player that can win you the game. Like a Mirallas x10
Post by: Brownie on April 08, 2019, 01:42:05 AM
I was starting to wonder about him but the last few games have shown how his stats don't always stack up well. It's often what he does deeper in the park, picking up the ball, winning it, protecting it then making the pass or drawing a foul. That and a couple of his long passes were superb today. He'll never be a player who's game is built on goals and assists but it doesn't mean he isn't very good.
It’s almost as if people need to watch a player rather than base things on stats.
Post by: brap2 on April 08, 2019, 01:46:50 AM
Bernard's great but I reckon Richarlison is always going to be that player that can win you the game. Like a Mirallas x10
Really good comparison and I can see him being that sort of Mirallas / Arnautovic player in the future (Arnie being Mirallas on steds).
Post by: brap2 on April 08, 2019, 01:47:10 AM
It’s almost as if people need to watch a player rather than base things on stats.
Y not both
Post by: gizzblue on April 08, 2019, 01:49:59 AM
It’s almost as if people need to watch a player rather than base things on stats.
Just love the way he cruises round the pitch breaking shit up turning players and finding quality passes also has the twat snide in him...fuck the stats get him signed imho.
Post by: Brownie on April 08, 2019, 01:50:54 AM
Y not both
I’m only teasing mate.
Post by: Dr. Sponge on April 08, 2019, 04:43:06 AM
Re your second paragraph I do agree, finding someone who buys into the manager and seems to fit the culture and dressing room, hard to put a financial or statistical figure on it but it's so important.
We just need to make sure that open play creativity comes from somewhere, because it is still an issue.
We certainly created enough from open play today. 26 shots was it?
The balance has looked bad all season, especially with Sigurdson’s influence, but it’s looking a lot better lately. Hard to say exactly what it is that’s changed, the whole team just looks far better.
Strange game isn’t it.. could be that DCLs form is the catalyst we needed. Could be a change in the training camp. Fuck knows, but long may it continue.
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Post by: Bluedylan on April 08, 2019, 04:57:51 AM
Post by: MmmblueBernard on April 08, 2019, 04:59:15 AM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on April 08, 2019, 08:09:32 AM
Post by: gizzblue on April 08, 2019, 04:45:02 PM
He's almost been too good as regards other clubs taking notice lately, hope Everton has got in his bones, suits us so well, would be a big blow to lose his influence but i think we'll go all out to secure him, hopefully anyway.
Be fucking gutted if we miss out on him.
Post by: TrevorSteven on April 08, 2019, 05:18:07 PM
He's almost been too good as regards other clubs taking notice lately, hope Everton has got in his bones, suits us so well, would be a big blow to lose his influence but i think we'll go all out to secure him, hopefully anyway.
I do not think that he will get too much attention from other clubs of following reasons:
1. He came to Everton after a horrible time at Barcelona. Gomes knows everything about how a bad spell is destroying life and for him every other move than to Everton would risk the upturn he has got at Goodision.
2. Even though he is a fantastic player he has some limitations to his game making him less attractive for top teams. He is lacking pace making it look like his work-rate is not that good. That will rule him out of most top teams maybe except Manchester City. He is linked with Tottenham but for me Andre Gomes is no Pocchetino-player.
I feel confident he is gonna stay - but without Idrissa (or someone like him) he will fade I think. For me Idrissa is the real gem in our squad...
Post by: SANA_DR0 on April 08, 2019, 05:36:01 PM
Post by: Evertonian in NC on April 08, 2019, 08:20:26 PM
Best I've seen him play yesterday, If Gana stays and we can add someone more pacey and creative in Siggys (cough lookman cough) position, we'd have an awesome 3.
I am hopeful that we at least rotate a bit next season, using Lookman and (if work permit gets done) Onyekuru. Keep everyone fresh, maybe push on in at least one of the Cups, be more protected against one injury fucking us sideways.
Post by: MexicanToffee on April 08, 2019, 08:51:18 PM
I think you have hit the nail on the head. His running on and off the ball has improved exponentially. The pressure he is putting on the opposing defence, drawing them out of position and just being a thorn in their side has had a significant impact.
Strange game isn’t it.. could be that DCLs form is the catalyst we needed. Could be a change in the training camp. Fuck knows, but long may it continue.
Post by: D15TIN on April 08, 2019, 09:53:18 PM
Post by: bigmanbob on April 08, 2019, 10:04:20 PM
Post by: Gary1878 on April 08, 2019, 10:54:50 PM
I do not think that he will get too much attention from other clubs of following reasons:
1. He came to Everton after a horrible time at Barcelona. Gomes knows everything about how a bad spell is destroying life and for him every other move than to Everton would risk the upturn he has got at Goodision.
2. Even though he is a fantastic player he has some limitations to his game making him less attractive for top teams. He is lacking pace making it look like his work-rate is not that good. That will rule him out of most top teams maybe except Manchester City. He is linked with Tottenham but for me Andre Gomes is no Pocchetino-player.
I feel confident he is gonna stay - but without Idrissa (or someone like him) he will fade I think. For me Idrissa is the real gem in our squad...
About right this. However good Gomes is, Gueye is the one we will miss more than anyone, and is going to be awfully hard to replace if he goes.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on April 09, 2019, 12:04:31 AM
Post by: NickNack on April 09, 2019, 12:12:05 AM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11684030/raul-jimenez-completes-permanent-wolves-move
Post by: Escla on April 09, 2019, 12:38:44 AM
Can we actually sign Gomes now with him being on loan? If Wolves can do it with Jiminez....
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11684030/raul-jimenez-completes-permanent-wolves-move
If the loan deal was with an option to buy then yes, if it was just a straight loan deal without an option then no, don’t know the details of Gomes loan.
Post by: sam of the south on April 09, 2019, 03:20:22 AM
Can we actually sign Gomes now with him being on loan? If Wolves can do it with Jiminez....
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11684030/raul-jimenez-completes-permanent-wolves-move
There was no option to buy when we first got him, probably because we rushed it through, or maybe Barca wanted to see how he did before agreeing a price.
It would be nice to think we sorted a fee in January.
Post by: gizzblue on April 09, 2019, 11:33:41 PM
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2019/04/09/gomes
Post by: WeimaranerBlues on April 10, 2019, 12:22:01 AM
Post by: NickNack on April 12, 2019, 01:11:22 AM
Good read this ...sounds happy to me .Some impressive stats there...
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2019/04/09/gomes
Post by: Confucius on April 12, 2019, 01:18:47 PM
Only Lukaku comes close I reckon.
Post by: Gary1878 on April 12, 2019, 02:23:38 PM
I am going out on a limb here but he is the best player we have had at Everton in 20 years.
Only Lukaku comes close I reckon.
There are a few that spring to mind - Rooney, Stones, Lukaku, Arteta. I rate Gomes v highly though and is definitely in that bunch.
Post by: TheRam on April 12, 2019, 03:00:49 PM
I am going out on a limb here but he is the best player we have had at Everton in 20 years.
Only Lukaku comes close I reckon.
Nah, long, long way to go before he can be considered with the likes of Pienaar, arteta, Baines and Jags.
Wouldn’t even say he’s better than Gareth Barry was for us so far.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 12, 2019, 03:41:54 PM
Post by: pjk on April 12, 2019, 04:06:21 PM
Post by: Confucius on April 12, 2019, 08:12:40 PM
Nah, long, long way to go before he can be considered with the likes of Pienaar, arteta, Baines and Jags.
Wouldn’t even say he’s better than Gareth Barry was for us so far.
I absolutely love him. He has all the tools. We so much better when he plays
Post by: Omar on April 12, 2019, 08:28:29 PM
He’s not the best player in the current team. Gueye is
I get a little twitch thinking about Bernard too.
Post by: Evertonian in NC on April 12, 2019, 11:53:00 PM
My player of the season is still Digne or Zouma.
Post by: GLewis on April 13, 2019, 01:31:58 AM
Post by: brap2 on April 13, 2019, 01:37:54 AM
Post by: gizzblue on April 13, 2019, 02:08:25 AM
Good to see nobody is getting carried away.
After playing like he did b Arsenal and his all important 'stats ' being good too I'm suprised you havnt got a small inni semi on for him this week Brap :snigger:
Post by: brap2 on April 13, 2019, 04:05:08 AM
After playing like he did b Arsenal and his all important 'stats ' being good too I'm suprised you havnt got a small inni semi on for him this week Brap :snigger:
He was absolutely brilliant I thought yeah.
Might need a bit more before I am calling him the best player we've had in decades like.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on April 13, 2019, 04:44:37 AM
Post by: TheRam on April 13, 2019, 05:40:18 AM
Baines was one of the best left backs I’ve seen play. Wonderful footballer.
The best I’ve seen play. No contest.
Post by: irishtoffee on April 13, 2019, 06:37:42 AM
Post by: Confucius on April 13, 2019, 09:24:05 AM
What a man!
Post by: Confucius on April 14, 2019, 08:06:42 AM
For all of you wondering WTF, just being a typical Evertonian
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on April 14, 2019, 12:12:24 PM
I told you guys he is no good. Inconsistent and only gets up for the big games. Flash in the pan. Wouldn’t spend $10M on himFirmly put back in our place.
For all of you wondering WTF, just being a typical Evertonian
Post by: Waltzer on April 14, 2019, 02:16:40 PM
Daily star linking Spurs with a £30m bid for him
I hope im wrong, but i honestly think this is where he'll end up!! :(
Post by: Polledreng on April 14, 2019, 03:35:49 PM
Post by: Alanvideo on April 14, 2019, 04:58:38 PM
He needs to talk to someone about his temper….. could have walked against Arsenal (should have walked against Bournemouth) and that stamp yesterday on Mitrovic was out of order..................could be facing retrospective action for that stamp
Post by: TheRam on April 14, 2019, 05:08:59 PM
Post by: WeimaranerBlues on April 14, 2019, 05:14:29 PM
Loads get away with it , it only when the media etc show it over and over that the fa take notice.
Post by: Lxxx on April 14, 2019, 08:08:22 PM
He needs to talk to someone about his temper….. could have walked against Arsenal (should have walked against Bournemouth) and that stamp yesterday on Mitrovic was out of order.
You knocking him for having a bit of something about him?
Post by: Polledreng on April 14, 2019, 10:35:09 PM
You knocking him for having a bit of something about him?Knocking him for doing stupid things like stamping a player clearly better than him on the day. Should use his energy like Reid or Parkinson or Gravesen for that matter.
Post by: Bob Sacamano on April 15, 2019, 01:52:19 AM
Post by: Ross on April 15, 2019, 02:36:37 AM
Not sure how he was at Valencia before his failed move though so I’ve assumed he’s just trying to hard and he could settle down with this.
Post by: brap2 on April 15, 2019, 02:43:51 AM
Post by: sam of the south on April 15, 2019, 04:17:10 PM
He's got bigger issues like
What do you think they are?
Post by: Macca77 on April 15, 2019, 04:35:01 PM
Post by: brap2 on April 15, 2019, 04:38:22 PM
What do you think they are?
Well he's created less chances this year than declan rice who's basically a 20 odd year old centre half playing DM for a worse side than us. I know it's not his job because he's playing DM for us but as a comparison vs players in his position, he's objectively bad at it and I don't know why because he clearly can pass and dribble.
He's quite bad defensively, and although it doesn't seem like it because he's so calm in possession, he gives the ball away a lot in dangerous areas, as well as fouls. Against arsenal, arguably his best performance for us and a genuinely good one, no player on the pitch misplaced more passes in their own half, or gave away more fouls in their own half, or got dribbled past more.
Don't want to be slagging him off because I'm much more bought in to him than I originally was, and I do think his temper will land him with a red card soon but partly I think it's frustration at himself. He's clearly a bit sensitive and he seems to boil over when it's not going his way or he gets shut down.
Post by: SANA_DR0 on April 15, 2019, 10:15:30 PM
I'm made up that he's got a bit of needle about him, nothing wrong with that at all
Needle is fine, but going in really late on a player, is very dangerous.. we've had Coleman who has been out for a year cos of a similar challenge on him..
to me it seems like his needle is there when we play shit, I love rough/hard tackling.. i use to love Horne/Ebbrel and Parkinson, hence why i'd like to see more of McCarthy.. that being said, they all go for the ball, if you go in for a strong challange and miss the ball and get the player oh well.. going in for the player after the ball has been passed on is pretty cowardly. theres a big difference there.
shame some of our fans cant see what Gomes did, and credit him for his needle,. when its actually very cowardly.
The fulham player could have had a serious injury or broken part of his leg/foot.
but its ok cos he has needle. smh
Post by: WeimaranerBlues on April 15, 2019, 11:11:23 PM
Post by: Macca77 on April 15, 2019, 11:18:27 PM
Needle is fine, but going in really late on a player, is very dangerous.. we've had Coleman who has been out for a year cos of a similar challenge on him..
to me it seems like his needle is there when we play shit, I love rough/hard tackling.. i use to love Horne/Ebbrel and Parkinson, hence why i'd like to see more of McCarthy.. that being said, they all go for the ball, if you go in for a strong challange and miss the ball and get the player oh well.. going in for the player after the ball has been passed on is pretty cowardly. theres a big difference there.
shame some of our fans cant see what Gomes did, and credit him for his needle,. when its actually very cowardly.
The fulham player could have had a serious injury or broken part of his leg/foot.
but its ok cos he has needle. smh
Just point out the bit where I said it's ok? It wasn't a great tackle, did be mean it, who knows. Happens in most games. By needle I mean someone who isn't scared of getting stuck in, doesn't shy away from a tackle
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on April 15, 2019, 11:52:57 PM
Well he's created less chances this year than declan rice who's basically a 20 odd year old centre half playing DM for a worse side than us. I know it's not his job because he's playing DM for us but as a comparison vs players in his position, he's objectively bad at it and I don't know why because he clearly can pass and dribble.
He's quite bad defensively, and although it doesn't seem like it because he's so calm in possession, he gives the ball away a lot in dangerous areas, as well as fouls. Against arsenal, arguably his best performance for us and a genuinely good one, no player on the pitch misplaced more passes in their own half, or gave away more fouls in their own half, or got dribbled past more.
Don't want to be slagging him off because I'm much more bought in to him than I originally was, and I do think his temper will land him with a red card soon but partly I think it's frustration at himself. He's clearly a bit sensitive and he seems to boil over when it's not going his way or he gets shut down.
He plays with an arrogance that says he thinks he won’t ever lose the ball. When he’s playing well it looks fantastic. When he’s off through like you say he loses time and time again in really poor areas
I really think he flatters to deceive. He’s pleasing on the eye but doesn’t do enough of anything
Post by: D15TIN on April 16, 2019, 12:22:39 AM
Didn't see the game on Saturday, but the inconsistency from the FA is a joke. Everton are an easy target to them.
Post by: TheRam on April 16, 2019, 12:41:49 AM
Post by: Macca77 on April 16, 2019, 12:48:26 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on April 16, 2019, 01:15:11 AM
Been banned for 3 gamesNever in doubt that
Didn't see the game on Saturday, but the inconsistency from the FA is a joke. Everton are an easy target to them.
Post by: Ell Capitan on April 16, 2019, 01:40:01 AM
Post by: Macca77 on April 16, 2019, 01:52:54 AM
Post by: stirlingblue on April 16, 2019, 01:57:06 AM
Well he's created less chances this year than declan rice who's basically a 20 odd year old centre half playing DM for a worse side than us. I know it's not his job because he's playing DM for us but as a comparison vs players in his position, he's objectively bad at it and I don't know why because he clearly can pass and dribble.
He's quite bad defensively, and although it doesn't seem like it because he's so calm in possession, he gives the ball away a lot in dangerous areas, as well as fouls. Against arsenal, arguably his best performance for us and a genuinely good one, no player on the pitch misplaced more passes in their own half, or gave away more fouls in their own half, or got dribbled past more.
Don't want to be slagging him off because I'm much more bought in to him than I originally was, and I do think his temper will land him with a red card soon but partly I think it's frustration at himself. He's clearly a bit sensitive and he seems to boil over when it's not going his way or he gets shut down.
Get out of here with your reasonable criticism backed up with a sprinkling of stats.
He’s a handsome lad so we should obviously be splurging £30m on him
Post by: Macca77 on April 16, 2019, 02:01:40 AM
Get out of here with your reasonable criticism backed up with a sprinkling of stats.
He’s a handsome lad so we should obviously be splurging £30m on him
Don't forget his hair, it's spectacular
Post by: sam of the south on April 16, 2019, 04:19:49 AM
Post by: Macca77 on April 16, 2019, 04:22:46 AM
Post by: BlueBeagle on April 16, 2019, 04:31:52 AM
Anyone else find it strange the way other players get away with lot worse?
Do they really though?
Post by: Macca77 on April 16, 2019, 04:45:14 AM
Do they really though?
They seem to, quite a few examples this season
Post by: TheRam on April 16, 2019, 04:54:25 AM
Haven’t seen this but I’m assuming it was a stamp away from the ball?
It’s a lot different than a bad tackle that’s a bit over the top.
Post by: BlueBeagle on April 16, 2019, 05:07:22 AM
They seem to, quite a few examples this season
Name 2 that were so blatant, deliberate and stupid...
Post by: Gash on April 16, 2019, 05:12:19 AM
Nothing to do with whether anyone else gets away with it (can't remember too many more blatent stamps) he'll get punshed and can't really complain.
Post by: WeimaranerBlues on April 16, 2019, 06:15:37 AM
but Gomes was stupid , just hate all the Pundits , commentators beating us with a stick
Can't wait for VAR and all the slow motion sending off's
Post by: Mac934 on April 16, 2019, 08:41:08 AM
Post by: Hesmenos on April 16, 2019, 03:29:37 PM
Post by: gizzblue on April 16, 2019, 04:34:59 PM
Despite this and the numerous transgressions that get no punishment against the top teams (Salahs blatant dive yet again the other day casing point ) Gomes deserves the ban. ..it was reckless and dangerous .
Post by: pjk on April 16, 2019, 04:43:02 PM
Post by: Hesmenos on April 16, 2019, 06:00:28 PM
Funny enough there is three that went unpunished as I can off the top of my head remember...Ally and Kane both same game early in the season(not sure who against) and Davidson Sanchez on a keeper a couple of weeks ago ....all stamps no punishments ....but it's not just spurs ..There was the one by Capoue on Zaha and the Jorginho one on Sigurdsson. I think they were both given yellows during the match though so they were deemed to have been already dealt with. Strange rule though as they were arguably much worse than what Gomes did.
Despite this and the numerous transgressions that get no punishment against the top teams (Salahs blatant dive yet again the other day casing point ) Gomes deserves the ban. ..it was reckless and dangerous .
I like the fact that Gomes has a bit of needle about him but he does seem to have moments when he completely loses control and could end up costing us if he gets sent off. Remember the Bournemouth match when he went on a 15 minute period of kicking anyone that came near him even though he was already on a yellow. He'll have to learn to control it, especially as he could now be under the spotlight after the Mitrovic incident.
Post by: TheRam on April 16, 2019, 06:13:04 PM
Salah isn't getting charged for a dive because he didn't get a penalty from it.
Hate to break it to everyone, but there really isn't a conspiracy against Everton.
Post by: gizzblue on April 16, 2019, 06:23:58 PM
Really wish people would grasp the basic laws of the game.
Salah isn't getting charged for a dive because he didn't get a penalty from it.
Hate to break it to everyone, but there really isn't a conspiracy against Everton.
'Again' knowing the basic laws of the game (condescending git)I lnever fucking said it was a conspiracy against Everton or that Salah should be banned ....he should've been booked yet again for simulation though ...and yes the top six do still get preferential treatment ...if you dont see that your watching the wrong sport maybe rounders would suit you better .
Post by: TheRam on April 16, 2019, 06:26:30 PM
'Again' knowing the basic laws of the game (condescending git)I lnever fucking said it was a conspiracy against Everton or that Salah should be banned ....he should've been booked yet again for simulation though ...and yes the top six do still get preferential treatment ...if you dont see that your watching the wrong sport maybe rounders would suit you better .
My post wasn't aimed at you, more the countless evertonians I see bringing up Salah diving and other nonsense.
We've had players dive this season and not been booked ourselves.
Just boring reading the same old stuff from our fans when something like this happens.
Post by: stirlingblue on April 16, 2019, 07:01:24 PM
'Again' knowing the basic laws of the game (condescending git)I lnever fucking said it was a conspiracy against Everton or that Salah should be banned ....he should've been booked yet again for simulation though ...and yes the top six do still get preferential treatment ...if you dont see that your watching the wrong sport maybe rounders would suit you better .
I think there’s a decent argument to be made that the top 6 get an advantage in terms of on the pitch decisions, not a full on conspiracy but probably an unconscious bias.
I don’t see the same on post-game reviews on incidents, the deciding factor there is whether the ref on the day saw it or not. It’s a ridiculous rule though, and they should definitely be able to retrospectively upgrade a yellow to a red of the referee didn’t realise how bad the challenge was (like Jorginho on Sig earlier this year).
Post by: Gash on April 16, 2019, 07:02:48 PM
Post by: D15TIN on April 16, 2019, 10:22:19 PM
Niasse & Lanzini are still the only two players to be banned for 'deceiving a match official', the likes of salah & Alli etc do it most weeks
Fabinho aimed snot at a Chelsea player at the weekend, that one gets swiftly brushed under the carpet though, sky didn't even cover it and didn't bother mentioning salahs blatent dive again after it'd happened.
Post by: WeimaranerBlues on April 16, 2019, 11:18:55 PM
Post by: blueToffee on April 16, 2019, 11:34:07 PM
In part, it's because they're more likely on balance to be looking for such decisions, the better teams will likely be dominating the ball and/or creating chances and getting players into the box where the big decisions are made. Just in recent weeks you've the difference it makes with Chelsea given a blatantly offside goal vs Cardiff which saw that game turn on it's head. How big would those 3 pts have been to Cardiff?
Add that to the amount of pundits who rail against decisions that go against the bigger teams (clearly there is a unquestionable bias here in terms of media representation) and there is enough pressure there to effect some refereeing decisions that can make a difference over the course of a season. Doesn't even have to be much, even one or two big calls can as we see right now be the difference between top 4 or being outside of the top 4, or perhaps even winning the league.
I don't know whether it'll change much, but it's one of the reasons I was in favour of VAR coming in. I think it could be one of the biggest levellers in the PL. We already saw how bigger teams in the World Cup like Germany did lose out to VAR decisions and I hope it means there is more of a consistency across refereeing decisions in the PL over time now.
Post by: Elgoodo1978 on April 17, 2019, 12:28:02 AM
Really wish people would grasp the basic laws of the game.
Salah isn't getting charged for a dive because he didn't get a penalty from it.
Hate to break it to everyone, but there really isn't a conspiracy against Everton.
Fuck they've got to you
Post by: Macca77 on April 19, 2019, 12:13:58 AM
Post by: BlueForYou on April 19, 2019, 12:22:24 AM
Post by: D15TIN on April 24, 2019, 01:39:07 AM
Personally think this deal may already be part of the way there.. Im not so sure spurs will enter a bidding war, not totally convinced they have much money available this summer
Post by: Brownie on April 24, 2019, 01:41:14 AM
ElMundo saying Everton have an option to buy Gomes, but Barca will sell to highest bidder.. figure reported 17.3million pound asking price, but now expecting more, Spurs interested - Tweet by@pbsportswriter (Paul Brown)
Personally think this deal may already be part of the way there.. Im not so sure spurs will enter a bidding war, not totally convinced they have much money available this summer
Calling BS as it’s been widely reported that we didn’t have an option to buy
Post by: brap2 on April 24, 2019, 01:42:09 AM
Post by: gizzblue on April 24, 2019, 01:47:19 AM
Post by: D15TIN on April 24, 2019, 01:54:10 AM
Calling BS as it’s been widely reported that we didn’t have an option to buyStill have to negotiate the price etc, doesn't sound like any guarantee weve got him by any means, I just think this will have been negotiated over the last few months and we'll have a head start and an advantage on others. I think it's very important to him that he's going to be happy where he plays next as he struggled with mental health at barca
Post by: Macca77 on April 24, 2019, 02:51:57 AM
Post by: TheRam on April 24, 2019, 02:57:57 AM
If Spurs do want him then they will get him, champions league football is a very large carrot to dangle isn't it
We’ll offer more money.
Post by: Macca77 on April 24, 2019, 03:00:56 AM
We’ll offer more money.
More than likely, just got to hope his head isn't turned, id be gutted if we don't get him.
Post by: Paddockoldie on April 24, 2019, 06:14:37 PM
Post by: Waltzer on April 24, 2019, 06:27:17 PM
Echo's reporting £18m for Gomes... Got to snap that up unless they're eyeing Richarlison at some point? I think he wants to be here and is feeling the love.. Fuck spurs!!
But doesnt that report say something along the lines of thats what they wanted last season, now hes been decent the figure is closer to 40?
Post by: TheRam on April 24, 2019, 06:50:25 PM
If they put that valuation on him they'll be stuck with a player on big wages who has no place in the team.
He's playing relatively well for a midtable premier league club and his valuation will reflect that.
Post by: Paddockoldie on April 24, 2019, 08:08:13 PM
But doesnt that report say something along the lines of thats what they wanted last season, now hes been decent the figure is closer to 40?
Says they want £18 after paying 35 which does seem odd but great business for us if we can get him. I reckon there's T&C's or it's a misprint.
Post by: BlueNoseMike on April 25, 2019, 09:53:53 PM
Says they want £18 after paying 35 which does seem odd but great business for us if we can get him. I reckon there's T&C's or it's a misprint.
Nah Barca are notorious for not being great in the transfer market. Buying too high and selling too low.
18 mil is a snip. I'd pay 22 to 25 just to guarantee him though
Post by: Jimmywhack on April 25, 2019, 09:54:50 PM
Gonna get loads of these stories aint we
Post by: chang on April 25, 2019, 10:08:19 PM
Post by: D15TIN on April 25, 2019, 10:19:00 PM
Echo's reporting £18m for Gomes... Got to snap that up unless they're eyeing Richarlison at some point? I think he wants to be here and is feeling the love.. Fuck spurs!!Richarlison nowhere near ready for Barca side, needs another couple of seasons no rush for him
Malcolm barely getting a look in, moved too soon
Post by: D15TIN on April 25, 2019, 10:20:16 PM
https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/25/arsenal-enter-race-tottenham-everton-sign-andre-gomes-barcelona-9318715/Not remotely worried about either of those 2 sides, neither will pay the big money - arsenal are one team im looking for us to catch in the coming years, they need a lot of investment
Gonna get loads of these stories aint we
Post by: gizzblue on April 25, 2019, 11:03:15 PM
End of the day, if Everton want him they will have a price they will pay, if that is acceptable to parent club and players wants to play for Everton it will happen - if not he'll go elsewhere, no point worrying about it.
Close the site lads ... pointless discussing anything :thumbsup: lolol
Post by: Trowel on April 26, 2019, 12:34:51 AM
https://sempreinter.com/2019/04/25/inter-interested-in-andre-gomes/
Post by: Lxxx on April 26, 2019, 06:07:33 PM
Post by: Ross on April 26, 2019, 06:42:52 PM
Post by: sam of the south on April 26, 2019, 08:13:45 PM
Post by: D15TIN on April 26, 2019, 09:04:48 PM
Post by: Lxxx on April 26, 2019, 11:04:24 PM
Just don't see him at Spurs
He'd fulfil the Dembele role perfectly, before Dembele's legs went and they got a decent fee from China. He's perfect for manipulating the ball around so the more pacey and skilful players can do what they do so effectively.
It's one of the reasons I think we've looked much better recently with a much more balanced front three for him to play behind.
Post by: D15TIN on April 26, 2019, 11:09:01 PM
He'd fulfil the Dembele role perfectly, before Dembele's legs went and they got a decent fee from China. He's perfect for manipulating the ball around so the more pacey and skilful players can do what they do so effectively.Not questioning his ability, he could be good there. I just mean I don't see him joining Spurs, I don't see them entering into a bidding war, im pretty sure Spurs are low on £££ after the stadium and don't really spend big anyway
It's one of the reasons I think we've looked much better recently with a much more balanced front three for him to play behind.
Post by: gizzblue on April 26, 2019, 11:21:28 PM
Plus he's been Evertonized . :thumbsup:
Post by: D15TIN on April 26, 2019, 11:55:55 PM
I expect the deals already sorted.I think so too, find it hard to believe theres been no discussions/negotiations with barca this summer.. brands was even pictured with barca reps before the CL game at OT
Post by: brap2 on April 27, 2019, 03:20:37 AM
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on April 28, 2019, 05:23:31 PM
Post by: Juanito on May 02, 2019, 09:48:45 PM
Post by: gizzblue on May 02, 2019, 09:55:30 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/04/05/tottenham-looking-snatch-30m-rated-andre-gomes-noses-everton/
It's a month old that story mate ...the date is on it :thumbsup:
Post by: stirlingblue on May 03, 2019, 03:19:11 AM
Post by: brap2 on May 03, 2019, 03:31:25 AM
Can’t see Spurs going for him as they don’t really play a ‘destroyer’ type that he needs next to him a la Gueye
Vic the Brick!
Although tbh they need a proper midfield revamp.
Post by: Gary1878 on May 03, 2019, 05:07:17 PM
Post by: Waltzer on May 03, 2019, 06:04:40 PM
Its a shame Dembele isn't around at Spurs as i would have snapped him up in a heartbeat. They have missed him since he left.Not sure, he hardly played a he was injured and by his own admission he couldn't cut it anymore, plus they're 3rd in the league and in the semi final of the champions league, I can't see Dembele improving them to do much better than that!
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Post by: GLewis on May 03, 2019, 11:35:11 PM
Post by: Waltzer on May 10, 2019, 06:38:18 PM
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Post by: Gash on May 10, 2019, 06:42:50 PM
Post by: Waltzer on May 10, 2019, 06:45:25 PM
Still can't make my mind up about him so won't be too bothered if he doesn't stay. He's had some really good performances but he also got away with a lot of performances that if other players had done they'd have been slaughtered. Seems to have become fairly bullet proof and above criticism for some reason.That's what I said to my spurs mate who sent this. He'll look like a bargain at times and expensive others. Personally I'd like him to stay, but what will be will be
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Post by: TheRam on May 10, 2019, 06:49:35 PM
Still can't make my mind up about him so won't be too bothered if he doesn't stay. He's had some really good performances but he also got away with a lot of performances that if other players had done they'd have been slaughtered. Seems to have become fairly bullet proof and above criticism for some reason.
Want us to sign him to stop the chasing round for a replacement in the summer, but I'm not that bothered.
Find some of the shouts about him mad.
Good player, but it stops at that for me.
Post by: Gash on May 10, 2019, 06:53:57 PM
That's what I said to my spurs mate who sent this. He'll look like a bargain at times and expensive others. Personally I'd like him to stay, but what will be will be
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Yeah, if we sign him for reasonable money then fine but if we lose him I won't be too bothered either.
If someone like Spurs came in for him I wouldn't blame him for going anyway, he's at the stage of his career that if his next big move can give him CL football then he'll take it.
Post by: Tinga on May 10, 2019, 06:57:49 PM
Post by: Brownie on May 10, 2019, 07:26:28 PM
Post by: Macca77 on May 10, 2019, 07:30:29 PM
Post by: Macca77 on May 10, 2019, 07:37:11 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 10, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Want us to sign him to stop the chasing round for a replacement in the summer, but I'm not that bothered.
Find some of the shouts about him mad.
Good player, but it stops at that for me.
Agree beyond that I really worry about sigurdsson and Gomes together if we don’t retain gueye. If we lose gueye it might be that we need someone better defensively than Gomes
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on May 10, 2019, 07:51:50 PM
Lets be honest here, if Spurs want him then they will probably get him, none of us could blame him for going there either.Having been a bit-part player at Barca, you’d imagine being a starter would be top of his criteria, when deciding his future. Not sure he’d start for Spurs.
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Post by: Bluedylan on May 10, 2019, 07:52:49 PM
Post by: Waltzer on May 10, 2019, 07:54:15 PM
Having been a bit-part player at Barca, you'd imagine being a starter would be top of his criteria, when deciding his future. Not sure he'd start for Spurs.He'd be competing with Winks, Wanyama, Dier and Sisokko it's not like Xavi, Inniesta and Busquets, I think he'd be okay
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Post by: GrantyBoy78 on May 10, 2019, 07:56:26 PM
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Post by: GrantyBoy78 on May 10, 2019, 07:57:03 PM
He'd be competing with Winks, Wanyama, Dier and Sisokko it's not like Xavi, Inniesta and Busquets, I think he'd be okayAnd let’s not forget Alli and Erikson
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Post by: GrantyBoy78 on May 10, 2019, 07:58:38 PM
Brands will have about 10 alternatives (some of whom may be better than Gomes) lined up. Nowt to stress about.Exactly. He’s been good for us but I’m not bothered either way. I’d like him to stay for the continuity, but in Brands we trust.
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Post by: Waltzer on May 10, 2019, 08:00:37 PM
And let's not forget Alli and EriksonWeirdly I forgot about them!!
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Maybe was focusing more on the defensive side as that's predominately where Gomes has played
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Post by: brap2 on May 10, 2019, 08:02:55 PM
2 CMs
1 CB
1 RB
1 Forward
1 CF
Post by: Bluedylan on May 10, 2019, 08:03:54 PM
Exactly. He’s been good for us but I’m not bothered either way. I’d like him to stay for the continuity, but in Brands we trust.
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That's it mate. The joy of having Brands in place, listening to his planning process and his methodology that goes on throughout the season, is that you have a sane mind and a process in place so that we're not beholden to individual players or their whims.
Gomes is a good player. Sound. He might want to go elsewhere. Sound. Here's x, y and z who might well be better than Gomes.
There's no way on this earth that Brands hasn't planned for a scenario where Gomes and Zouma don't join us.
Post by: brap2 on May 10, 2019, 08:05:04 PM
Honestly think it could go either way, big summer super active massive changes, or tight summer concentrating on moving out bad apples.
Post by: Macca77 on May 10, 2019, 08:16:38 PM
Patience is needed again this summer, lets not forget we did most of our business during the last few days the transfer window last summer.
Post by: Waltzer on May 10, 2019, 08:27:21 PM
I can't wait to hear the flappers panicking when we haven't signed anyone a day after the window opens.That's correct, but we had a new manager, Brands was relatively new too. Both have stated the importance of getting it done early, so whilst I'm not expecting all to be concluded on day 1 I am expecting early movements or it is an indication things aren't going to plan
Patience is needed again this summer, lets not forget we did most of our business during the last few days the transfer window last summer.
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Post by: TheRam on May 10, 2019, 08:38:30 PM
Post by: D15TIN on May 10, 2019, 09:05:06 PM
Post by: Cereal Killer on May 10, 2019, 09:57:05 PM
Gomes agreed to join spurs then?
No
Some random tweeted it and everyone thinks it's done
Post by: Brownie on May 10, 2019, 10:18:03 PM
No
Some random tweeted it and everyone thinks it's done
I unite like the tweet where the guy says ‘why would anyone post a bollocks story?’
Post by: Confucius on May 10, 2019, 10:20:34 PM
That performance against Liverpool will become the norm and consistency will come too.
Midfielders like him are hard to find.
We should work our butts off to keep him/
Post by: D15TIN on May 10, 2019, 10:29:48 PM
Post by: Macca77 on May 10, 2019, 10:32:27 PM
Post by: sam of the south on May 10, 2019, 11:44:22 PM
I think he’s a top character, and he looks lovely on the ball, especially when he’s being pressed, and when he’s confident he moves very well with it; however, he doesn’t get many assists, nor score many goals, and he’s not great defensively either.
And, as BD said, I completely trust Brands to have already found quite a few alternatives if he doesn’t sign.
Would hurt to have Spurs steal him, though.
Post by: dunkster on May 11, 2019, 12:14:14 AM
Post by: brap2 on May 11, 2019, 03:58:04 AM
Think it smelled slightly like barca rustling, but you know, what happens happens.
Post by: BlueNoseMike on May 11, 2019, 01:05:04 PM
Gutted. But if I could only have one of the 2 it would have been zouma definitely.
However it's looking unlikely we will get him too
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on May 11, 2019, 02:25:39 PM
They did the same with Mina - linked him with Utd etc., all of which Mina denied when he signed. Said we were the only team in for him.
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Post by: Waltzer on May 11, 2019, 02:55:39 PM
The general consensus seems like it's Barca putting stories in the press, trying to flush out bids and get our arse in gear.Find that difficult to believe considering Silva has already said he's a priority with Zouma, it's not in our interests to drag our feet. As others have said id have expected us to have started negotiations ages ago if we genuinely want him
They did the same with Mina - linked him with Utd etc., all of which Mina denied when he signed. Said we were the only team in for him.
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Post by: pjk on May 11, 2019, 03:21:27 PM
Post by: Ross on May 11, 2019, 03:43:45 PM
Surely you’d start at the top of the list at the player you thought was the very best and try and bring them in? If that failed move onto the next one and so on.
Anyway I personally think it’s likely all agreed given what’s been said and the time both sides have had to size up each other. I expect it’s just speculation helping fill up column inches like roughly 99% of transfer gossip.
Post by: sam of the south on May 11, 2019, 04:03:58 PM
Can’t really understand the logic that says Brands will have a list of alternatives and on it some who are better yet we’d be not be going for them first.
Surely you’d start at the top of the list at the player you thought was the very best and try and bring them in? If that failed move onto the next one and so on.
Anyway I personally think it’s likely all agreed given what’s been said and the time both sides have had to size up each other. I expect it’s just speculation helping fill up column inches like roughly 99% of transfer gossip.
Gomes might not be at the top of Brands’ list now
Post by: Ross on May 11, 2019, 04:10:55 PM
Gomes might not be at the top of Brands’ list now
But they’ve said they want him haven’t they?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 11, 2019, 04:33:54 PM
But they’ve said they want him haven’t they?
Might be someone more expensive? Maybe Gomes is first on the list. Who knows but he’s not the be all and end all.
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on May 11, 2019, 05:41:41 PM
Can't really understand the logic that says Brands will have a list of alternatives and on it some who are better yet we'd be not be going for them first.There might be a player Brands considers ‘better’ but might cost £15m more. Or a player that’s generally of the same level as Gomes but doesn’t speak English. Or another player who’s club will only consider negotiating to sell, once they’ve got their replacement.
Surely you'd start at the top of the list at the player you thought was the very best and try and bring them in? If that failed move onto the next one and so on.
Anyway I personally think it's likely all agreed given what's been said and the time both sides have had to size up each other. I expect it's just speculation helping fill up column inches like roughly 99% of transfer gossip.
There are so many variables and any DoF worth his salt will plan for every scenario.
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Post by: sam of the south on May 11, 2019, 06:14:05 PM
But they’ve said they want him haven’t they?
I think so, but they’re not going to say otherwise unless he completely bombed during his spell.
Let’s say Brands has two players on his CM/#8 list that he thinks are better than Gomes, but then neither want to come here; Brands would then be in a poor position if neither him nor Silva had previously expressed their interest in signing Gomes permanently.
Post by: GLewis on May 11, 2019, 06:45:34 PM
Find that difficult to believe considering Silva has already said he's a priority with Zouma, it's not in our interests to drag our feet. As others have said id have expected us to have started negotiations ages ago if we genuinely want him
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Might be just trying to bring someone else into the game to bump the price up.
Post by: Ross on May 11, 2019, 06:51:45 PM
Might be someone more expensive? Maybe Gomes is first on the list. Who knows but he’s not the be all and end all.
There might be a player Brands considers ‘better’ but might cost £15m more. Or a player that’s generally of the same level as Gomes but doesn’t speak English. Or another player who’s club will only consider negotiating to sell, once they’ve got their replacement.
There are so many variables and any DoF worth his salt will plan for every scenario.
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I think so, but they’re not going to say otherwise unless he completely bombed during his spell.
Let’s say Brands has two players on his CM/#8 list that he thinks are better than Gomes, but then neither want to come here; Brands would then be in a poor position if neither him nor Silva had previously expressed their interest in signing Gomes permanently.
The thing is the players “on the list” that aren’t willing to come or are to expensive will surely have already been crossed out? There’s no point in still considering them as an alternative to Gomes is there?
I’d expect conversations have already taken place between Brands and lots of agents of players we’d like and we know who attainable and who’s not, and the ones who aren’t will have been crossed off. I like to think we’re a bit more professional now than the days of Steve Walsh meandering around Italy with a briefcase full of cash and a copy of football manager.
Post by: sam of the south on May 11, 2019, 10:14:03 PM
The thing is the players “on the list” that aren’t willing to come or are to expensive will surely have already been crossed out? There’s no point in still considering them as an alternative to Gomes is there?
I’d expect conversations have already taken place between Brands and lots of agents of players we’d like and we know who attainable and who’s not, and the ones who aren’t will have been crossed off. I like to think we’re a bit more professional now than the days of Steve Walsh meandering around Italy with a briefcase full of cash and a copy of football manager.
Not sure it always works that neatly, mate.
We courted Mina for the whole window, and it looked hopeless; and yet he signed for us at the last minute.
We did the same with Giroud previously; he jilted us.
Post by: Macca77 on May 12, 2019, 03:31:37 AM
Post by: BlueBeagle on May 12, 2019, 03:42:07 AM
Post by: Brownie on May 12, 2019, 04:06:28 AM
30 million euros to spurs agreed
Info or just from the newspaper reports based around that tweet?
Post by: TheRam on May 12, 2019, 04:31:03 AM
Waiting for "He'd deffo rather stay here if it was down to him"
Waiting for some actual, genuine reports confirming he’s going to spurs.
Post by: Macca77 on May 12, 2019, 06:14:50 AM
Info or just from the newspaper reports based around that tweet?
Dodgy tweet
Post by: Escla on May 12, 2019, 02:11:04 PM
Info or just from the newspaper reports based around that tweet?
Personal terms agreed according to Metro
Post by: Paddockoldie on May 12, 2019, 02:17:39 PM
Personal terms agreed according to Metro
Spurs will swap Rose for Digne according to the Star. Both shite
Post by: Brownie on May 12, 2019, 02:29:16 PM
Personal terms agreed according to Metro
As I said above same story with no sources that is in the Star and Mirror - all based on the tweet from the other day
Post by: Mac934 on May 12, 2019, 05:06:55 PM
Post by: BlueBeagle on May 12, 2019, 05:57:19 PM
I wonder how much the Raiola ban and Chelsea's embargo will affect transfers across the board?
Not very much.
Post by: TheRam on May 12, 2019, 06:12:41 PM
Post by: Cereal Killer on May 13, 2019, 12:46:30 AM
If we’re gonna post that he’s agreed terms somewhere else can we post the source it’s from ffs.
Dave from Barnet on twitter who quoted Juan in Spain
Post by: Shogun on May 13, 2019, 01:17:14 AM
I know plenty has changed since those days but players who do well here on loan tend to want to stay.
Post by: Cozzie on May 13, 2019, 01:18:32 AM
Zouma and Gomes would give us a great platform to build on.
Post by: dchans on May 13, 2019, 01:41:20 AM
Post by: velimski on May 13, 2019, 01:44:10 AM
When does the window open
1st of June i think.
Post by: Toffee1 on May 13, 2019, 01:52:56 AM
When does the window open
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/blog-transfer-talk/story/3820984/when-does-the-premier-league-transfer-window-open-for-summer-2019
Post by: BlueBeagle on May 13, 2019, 03:15:55 AM
If we managed to sign Lukaku after a season long loan then we can sign Zouma and Gomes.
I know plenty has changed since those days but players who do well here on loan tend to want to stay.
We signed Lukaku with no competition when he was surplus to requirements at his parent club.
Gomes is seemingly in demand from a bigger side and Chelsea will need to keep hold of Zouma through not being able to bring anyone else in.
Totally different.
Post by: Shogun on May 13, 2019, 03:30:50 AM
We signed Lukaku with no competition when he was surplus to requirements at his parent club.
Gomes is seemingly in demand from a bigger side and Chelsea will need to keep hold of Zouma through not being able to bring anyone else in.
Totally different.
Do you really think nobody wanted Lukaku at that age with his goals at West Brom and Everton?
Post by: BlueBeagle on May 13, 2019, 03:36:43 AM
Do you really think nobody wanted Lukaku at that age with his goals at West Brom and Everton?
Nobody better than us
Post by: Brownie on May 13, 2019, 05:51:55 AM
Post by: Tinga on May 13, 2019, 02:39:50 PM
Post by: TheRam on May 13, 2019, 03:06:04 PM
Nobody better than us
Why are you so adamant that Gomes and Zouma are so unattainable?
Post by: BlueBeagle on May 13, 2019, 04:25:03 PM
Why are you so adamant that Gomes and Zouma are so unattainable?
Because better teams apparently want Gomes and Zouma is owned by a team that will need him after being banned from signing players, especially after a good season with us.
Not sure what's difficult to understand really.
Post by: TheRam on May 13, 2019, 04:41:39 PM
Because better teams apparently want Gomes and Zouma is owned by a team that will need him after being banned from signing players, especially after a good season with us.
Not sure what's difficult to understand really.
I understand perfectly fine mate, just thought I’d ask the question.
Zouma is still 4th, maybe even 5th choice at Chelsea.
Maybe better teams are in for Gomes (not seen this reported anywhere reliable), but that doesn’t automatically rule us out.
Post by: Waltzer on May 13, 2019, 08:21:43 PM
I understand perfectly fine mate, just thought I’d ask the question.
Zouma is still 4th, maybe even 5th choice at Chelsea.
Maybe better teams are in for Gomes (not seen this reported anywhere reliable), but that doesn’t automatically rule us out.
Im with you on Zouma, if the price is right I can see us keeping him. Their transfer ban wont really hinder this deal as its not like we're even trying to take a squad player, its someone deemed surplus to requirements this year and its not like they've lost any of their centre backs either
Post by: Toffee Tuesdays on May 13, 2019, 08:44:21 PM
Im with you on Zouma, if the price is right I can see us keeping him. Their transfer ban wont really hinder this deal as its not like we're even trying to take a squad player, its someone deemed surplus to requirements this year and its not like they've lost any of their centre backs either
Isn't Gary Cahill leaving?
Post by: Waltzer on May 13, 2019, 08:50:00 PM
Isn't Gary Cahill leaving?
Forgot about that, but he'd pretty much been frozen out anyway and dont even think he was in any squads?
Post by: Cereal Killer on May 13, 2019, 09:30:06 PM
Forgot about that, but he'd pretty much been frozen out anyway and dont even think he was in any squads?
Yeah that's like us being short a centre back because Ashley Williams is leaving, nobody will notice
Post by: Evertonian in NC on May 13, 2019, 09:54:58 PM
Do you really think nobody wanted Lukaku at that age with his goals at West Brom and Everton?
IIRC, Lukaku told his agent and Chelsea - "get a deal done with Everton, I won't talk to anyone else."
Post by: BlueBeagle on May 13, 2019, 09:59:25 PM
IIRC, Lukaku told his agent and Chelsea - "get a deal done with Everton, I won't talk to anyone else."
Course he did lolol
Post by: Evertonian in NC on May 13, 2019, 10:01:29 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 13, 2019, 10:35:45 PM
He most certainly did. I read it in multiple media outlets at the time. Of course, it was a harbinger for when he insisted on the United move (and nothing else).
He most certainly didn’t. All he does is try and talk himself into bigger and bigger moves. Even now he’s failed at Utd he’s trying to spin it as him wanting a move. There’s no way he said he wouldn’t sign for juve or atletico to play for us
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 13, 2019, 10:36:54 PM
He most certainly did. I read it in multiple media outlets at the time. Of course, it was a harbinger for when he insisted on the United move (and nothing else).
Plus I read a thousand times that kenwright was paying for transfers out of his own pocket. Then it came out he hadn’t put a penny in. Just cos it’s in the press doesn’t make it true
Post by: Evertonian in NC on May 13, 2019, 11:27:42 PM
IIRC, some of the reporting (after he was signed) came from the Chelsea camp.
Post by: Brownie on May 13, 2019, 11:30:14 PM
He most certainly did. I read it in multiple media outlets at the time. Of course, it was a harbinger for when he insisted on the United move (and nothing else).
I don’t remember that tbh
Post by: Ross on May 13, 2019, 11:34:19 PM
The problem is though with Lukaku talk is cheap.
Post by: BlueBeagle on May 13, 2019, 11:46:41 PM
I don't mind the lad, did a job for us no question and probably the best goalscorer we've had in 30 years, but to believe that Everton is the only club in the world he was interested in signing for is comical.
Even his fucking new agent came out and said he'd have never signed for Everton if said agent was managing him at the time (Raiola was it?)
Edit: Link - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/11514425/Romelu-Lukaku-would-never-have-joined-Everton-if-I-had-represented-him-says-strikers-new-agent.html
Post by: D15TIN on May 14, 2019, 12:31:52 AM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 14, 2019, 03:09:18 AM
Got it. It didn't happen because you don't like him.
IIRC, some of the reporting (after he was signed) came from the Chelsea camp.
It didn’t happen because it’s absolutely not who he is. He made us wait for him to sign. He spent his entire time here talking about his next move. There’s absolutely no way he’d of refused a move to a champions league team instead of us
Post by: Hesmenos on May 14, 2019, 04:04:37 AM
Post by: Dr. Sponge on May 14, 2019, 11:18:29 AM
Having Brands at the wheel makes me feel at ease with whatever we do in the summer.
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Post by: D15TIN on May 14, 2019, 09:04:35 PM
Having Brands at the wheel makes me feel at ease with whatever we do in the summer.Yeah, everyone more relaxed now with him in charge of things
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Post by: Toddacelli on May 15, 2019, 12:53:45 AM
Yeah, everyone more relaxed now with him in charge of things
Yes we are. But I'm not sure why?
Post by: sam of the south on May 15, 2019, 01:25:50 AM
Yes we are. But I'm not sure why?
Because he’s an actual DOF, as opposed to a PE teacher
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on May 15, 2019, 01:45:57 AM
Yes we are. But I'm not sure why?Our most important recruit for yonks
Post by: Toddacelli on May 15, 2019, 04:55:58 AM
To be honest, for me, it's the bearing of the man that puts me at ease. Every fibre of his being just seems to say 'Relax. I'm in charge and I've got this.'
But I'm not enough of an super-fan to say I know much about him before he came to us. He was at Ajax. He is well thought of over there. That's all I know. Yet when I saw that footage of his predatory stalking through Finch Farm for the first time I just thought - he's the one.
Post by: Jamokachi on May 15, 2019, 05:44:05 AM
But I'm not enough of an super-fan to say I know much about him before he came to us. He was at Ajax. He is well thought of over there. That's all I know.
Haha, and as if to emphasise your point you're wrong, he came to us from PSV (and was at AZ Alkmaar before).
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on May 15, 2019, 06:00:22 AM
Yeah but is his past really that impressive.As long as he's here mate that's the main thing, not many will have been glued to his career, they just googled him when he was linked to us then pretended to have followed his career from the womb.
To be honest, for me, it's the bearing of the man that puts me at ease. Every fibre of his being just seems to say 'Relax. I'm in charge and I've got this.'
But I'm not enough of an super-fan to say I know much about him before he came to us. He was at Ajax. He is well thought of over there. That's all I know. Yet when I saw that footage of his predatory stalking through Finch Farm for the first time I just thought - he's the one.
Post by: brap2 on May 15, 2019, 01:36:57 PM
Post by: Toddacelli on May 15, 2019, 01:51:32 PM
Haha, and as if to emphasise your point you're wrong, he came to us from PSV (and was at AZ Alkmaar before).
Fuck me. Just call me Jon Snow! lolol
Post by: BlueBeagle on May 15, 2019, 03:15:30 PM
I mean I like the look of him and everything he says so far is good but really we're in the dark.
Correct.
I think he'll be a good appointment but it seems bizarre that everyone has just decided that he's fantastic at his role before he's been here long enough to produce the goods.
Post by: brap2 on May 15, 2019, 03:35:46 PM
Correct.
I think he'll be a good appointment but it seems bizarre that everyone has just decided that he's fantastic at his role before he's been here long enough to produce the goods.
You'd have to say his first window was broadly a success.
Digne, 10/10
Richarlison, surely the managers choice, but good
Gomes loan, good
Zouma loan, very good
Mina, wobbly but yano, maybe
Virginia, different and seems good
Post by: Cozzie on May 15, 2019, 03:39:25 PM
He looks a confidence player.
Due to the fact they have said the targets are already agreed upon I am at half mast already to see who we bring in.
Post by: Brownie on May 15, 2019, 04:14:51 PM
You'd have to say his first window was broadly a success.
Digne, 10/10
Richarlison, surely the managers choice, but good
Gomes loan, good
Zouma loan, very good
Mina, wobbly but yano, maybe
Virginia, different and seems good
What about Bernard?
Post by: brap2 on May 15, 2019, 05:00:31 PM
What about Bernard?
Ah knew I'd forgotten one.
Good, closing in on very good, potentially to be superb.
Post by: Shogun on May 15, 2019, 07:27:47 PM
Yeah Mina has to produce next season but I feel he will.
He looks a confidence player.
Due to the fact they have said the targets are already agreed upon I am at half mast already to see who we bring in.
Mina doesn't strike me as a confidence player like, I think all he needs is a run of games to get into full form.
Post by: Gary1878 on May 15, 2019, 07:53:49 PM
You'd have to say his first window was broadly a success.
Digne, 10/10
Richarlison, surely the managers choice, but good
Gomes loan, good
Zouma loan, very good
Mina, wobbly but yano, maybe
Virginia, different and seems good
Can't argue with the transfers he has made. Mina is the only player who has had little game time, but he looks capable of filling in for Zouma should he not be here next season.
Post by: Cozzie on May 15, 2019, 07:55:45 PM
Mina doesn't strike me as a confidence player like, I think all he needs is a run of games to get into full form.
Hope so.
For the hype and what we paid for him I feel he needs to be our number 1 CB regardless of whether we sign Zouma or not.
Post by: American Evertonian on May 15, 2019, 08:02:01 PM
Because he’s an actual DOF, as opposed to a PE teacher
I bet the squad misses dodgeball days though
Post by: American Evertonian on May 15, 2019, 08:02:56 PM
Hope so.
For the hype and what we paid for him I feel he needs to be our number 1 CB regardless of whether we sign Zouma or not.
Almost makes me wish we loaned Mina and bought Zouma. Would feel we are in a much more confident place in the back
Post by: sam of the south on May 15, 2019, 08:11:56 PM
I bet the squad misses dodgeball days though
Haha, we called it Murderball here, iirc, and one team invariably had to play in ‘skins’ (purely to differentiate between the two sides, obviously :blush:) with kids that forgot their kits forced to play in just their underwear :whistle:
Post by: D15TIN on May 15, 2019, 10:22:22 PM
Post by: Trowel on May 15, 2019, 10:31:10 PM
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2019/05/14/mina
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on May 15, 2019, 10:45:28 PM
Re. Mina, not really related to his playing ability, but I've not yet seen it mentioned that he was awarded Everton's PFA Community Champion yesterday. Quite remarkable for someone of his age to come from abroad and settle into the club culture so quickly and to give so much back to the fans :clap:Indeed. If you think about the character and application of all those players Brands brought in last summer, you’d have to say he’s done 10/10. Richy can be a bit petulant but he’s a kid so I’ll let him off.
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2019/05/14/mina
I don’t think it’s a fluke they’re all good lads, proves Brands is looking at more than just football ability.
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Post by: sam of the south on May 15, 2019, 11:07:57 PM
Indeed. If you think about the character and application of all those players Brands brought in last summer, you’d have to say he’s done 10/10. Richy can be a bit petulant but he’s a kid so I’ll let him off.
I don’t think it’s a fluke they’re all good lads, proves Brands is looking at more than just football ability.
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Yeah exactly, it fits with our ethos.
It’s why Liverpool generally buy players that are arrogant, whinging shitcunts.
Post by: Mac934 on May 15, 2019, 11:15:39 PM
Yeah exactly, it fits with our ethos.Liverpool generally buy players that are arrogant, whinging shitcunts. = 2nd in the league and 2 Champions league finals in a row.
It’s why Liverpool generally buy players that are arrogant, whinging shitcunts.
Everton buy nice guys to fit ethos = 8th in the league and not cup final in sight.
Just saying like.
Post by: sam of the south on May 15, 2019, 11:21:34 PM
Liverpool generally buy players that are arrogant, whinging shitcunts. = 2nd in the league and 2 Champions league finals in a row.
Everton buy nice guys to fit ethos = 8th in the league and not cup final in sight.
Just saying like.
What exactly are you saying, like?
Post by: Evertonian in NC on May 15, 2019, 11:36:53 PM
Post by: American Evertonian on May 15, 2019, 11:59:27 PM
Haha, we called it Murderball here, iirc, and one team invariably had to play in ‘skins’ (purely to differentiate between the two sides, obviously :blush:) with kids that forgot their kits forced to play in just their underwear :whistle:
The last thing the USA needs these days is something called Murderball. :X
Post by: American Evertonian on May 15, 2019, 11:59:58 PM
We can (and should) be looking at building a winning culture with a better dressing room than we have had. Not feasible to just toss gobs of money at the biggest dickheads like Liverpool does.
Even Salah is starting to look a lot more arrogant than he used to.
Post by: gizzblue on May 16, 2019, 12:02:18 AM
Liverpool generally buy players that are arrogant, whinging shitcunts. = 2nd in the league and 2 Champions league finals in a row.
Everton buy nice guys to fit ethos = 8th in the league and not cup final in sight.
Just saying like.
not to forget ....they've spent mahoooooisive amounts of money in the last few years and have a manager who's been there 4 odd years now ....where did Klopp finish in his first year?????......8th ..sounds like we are bang on track :thumbsup: or you could say Silva is doing a better job than klopps first year they were never low enough to get the Rotund Gravy swiging Bung taker as their manager before he took over .
Just saying like lolol
Post by: Mac934 on May 16, 2019, 12:36:38 AM
What exactly are you saying, like?being nice doesn't always help win things.
Post by: sam of the south on May 16, 2019, 01:05:42 AM
being nice doesn't always help win things.
Just like being a prick doesn’t guarantee success ;)
Post by: brap2 on May 16, 2019, 01:08:20 AM
Just like being a prick doesn’t guarantee success ;)
This place would be a fortune 500 playground!
Post by: sam of the south on May 16, 2019, 01:09:15 AM
This place would be a fortune 500 playground!
Exactly, chief
Post by: GLewis on May 16, 2019, 01:49:13 AM
Mina doesn't strike me as a confidence player like, I think all he needs is a run of games to get into full form.
Yeah think as well because he’s massive physically, that if he’s not playing all the time he’s likely to lose match sharpness quicker/ take longer to get it back than others.
Post by: Macca77 on May 16, 2019, 02:56:12 AM
He's ours lads
Post by: sam of the south on May 16, 2019, 03:55:34 AM
Latest Instagram post, then likes Everton commenting Scouser
He's ours lads
*womb throb*
Post by: Jamokachi on May 16, 2019, 04:34:45 AM
Post by: Jimmywhack on May 16, 2019, 04:35:31 AM
Post by: Goaljira on May 16, 2019, 04:51:53 AM
Looks a lot prettier in blue
We need a maroon and gold away kit, as he'd look great in a Roma style kit.
Post by: Brownie on May 16, 2019, 05:25:23 AM
Latest Instagram post, then likes Everton commenting Scouser
He's ours lads
Window opens tomorrow. Let’s hope he’s in early doors
Post by: Paddockoldie on May 16, 2019, 01:05:06 PM
Post by: Gary1878 on May 16, 2019, 04:24:33 PM
Post by: Paddockoldie on May 16, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Post by: Cereal Killer on May 17, 2019, 12:24:39 AM
I don't know whether the echo is playing mind games but they're reporting he's agreed to join spurs. It's probably an old story rehashed but if so, completely unnecessary. Just can't see him shitting on us like that.... But I've been wrong before.
They've finally got round to making a story based on that one random tweet? :clap:
Post by: Escla on May 17, 2019, 12:45:01 AM
I don't know whether the echo is playing mind games but they're reporting he's agreed to join spurs. It's probably an old story rehashed but if so, completely unnecessary. Just can't see him shitting on us like that.... But I've been wrong before.
Whether it’s true or not or just the usual Echo crap journalism who knows, if however he has agreed terms with Spurs is that really shitting on us or understandable from a professional footballers point of view to want to play Champions league football ? For a player who has been a one season loan you can hardly expect unconditional loyalty.
Post by: Macca77 on May 17, 2019, 12:48:54 AM
Post by: Shogun on May 17, 2019, 12:51:17 AM
The echo, do you people are still read and believe the shite they print, honestly?
They’ve taken it from this excerpt from the Guardian:
Everton are facing an uphill battle to keep André Gomes at Goodison Park, what with some news outlets reporting the midfielder, who is on loan from Barcelona, has already agreed personal terms with Tottenham Hotspur. “At this moment, he has had nothing new to say to me until now,” said Everton manager Marco Silva, following his side’s draw at Spurs on Sunday. “This is the most important thing. I am 100% sure when something is decided in his mind, I will be one of the first people to know. As a club, we have to do everything to sign him.”
So bollocks basically.
Post by: Brownie on May 17, 2019, 01:08:39 AM
I don't know whether the echo is playing mind games but they're reporting he's agreed to join spurs. It's probably an old story rehashed but if so, completely unnecessary. Just can't see him shitting on us like that.... But I've been wrong before.
They've finally got round to making a story based on that one random tweet? :clap:
It’s from a Guardian article that I think is just rehashing report from last week
Post by: Brownie on May 19, 2019, 05:26:18 PM
Post by: Silas on May 19, 2019, 05:50:17 PM
Post by: Audrey Horne on May 19, 2019, 05:57:55 PM
Post by: TheRam on May 19, 2019, 06:11:33 PM
Post by: Brownie on May 19, 2019, 06:44:39 PM
Yet to see one reliable source report the spurs interest.
Neither have I. It’s all very quiet and I just posted it as an update. There’s also question marks over Pocc staying at spurs
Post by: dekko on May 19, 2019, 11:12:54 PM
Post by: Brownie on May 20, 2019, 05:11:08 AM
Post by: Shogun on May 20, 2019, 05:14:27 AM
He was in a very dark place whilst at Barcelona and coming here clearly helped him mentally get out of that place.
Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think it’s really about playing in the champions league for him. He was at one of (if not) the best club in the world and it’s was the most miserable part of his career.
Post by: Ramjam on May 20, 2019, 10:01:03 AM
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Post by: djws1788 on May 21, 2019, 12:59:46 PM
Post by: Macca77 on May 21, 2019, 01:44:46 PM
Post by: brap2 on May 21, 2019, 02:05:02 PM
Post by: Brownie on May 21, 2019, 02:29:59 PM
He changed it when he joined us last August
Apparently he still had Barca in there until a day or two ago but has taken that off and just left Everton. I’m not a big user of Twitter or Insta so I can’t confirm or deny
Post by: Macca77 on May 21, 2019, 03:18:40 PM
Apparently he still had Barca in there until a day or two ago but has taken that off and just left Everton. I’m not a big user of Twitter or Insta so I can’t confirm or deny
He'll change it to Spurs soon enough
Ooooof!
Post by: Brownie on May 21, 2019, 07:20:33 PM
He'll change it to Spurs soon enough
Ooooof!
I’ve just cried
Post by: Trowel on May 21, 2019, 08:03:57 PM
Apparently he still had Barca in there until a day or two ago but has taken that off and just left Everton. I’m not a big user of Twitter or Insta so I can’t confirm or denyUsing the power of the Wayback Machine, it looks like it's been Everton only since September.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180922144538/https://twitter.com/aftgomes
Post by: Macca77 on May 23, 2019, 12:00:31 AM
https://twitter.com/EvertonNewsFeed/status/1131224012141617152
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on May 23, 2019, 12:04:09 AM
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Post by: TheRam on May 23, 2019, 12:05:28 AM
Post by: Cereal Killer on May 23, 2019, 04:34:03 AM
Looks like somewhere around west Kirkby if I could hazard a guess.
Clearly the Thames so he must've joined Spurs :snigger:
Post by: Goaljira on May 23, 2019, 03:44:35 PM
Or not.
Post by: Alanvideo on May 23, 2019, 04:07:36 PM
watching the tide roll away..........
Post by: Lxxx on May 23, 2019, 06:28:28 PM
Get on Google maps someone..
https://twitter.com/EvertonNewsFeed/status/1131224012141617152
I'd have preferred him to use the word 'love' but I'll take it.
Post by: Goaljira on May 23, 2019, 08:03:06 PM
I'd have preferred him to use the word 'love' but I'll take it.
He likes where he loves?
Bit too personal that.
Post by: pedrotheblue on May 24, 2019, 04:53:34 AM
He's sitting on the dock of the bay
watching the tide roll away..........
Wasting time?
Post by: American Evertonian on May 24, 2019, 06:52:20 AM
Wasting time?
Ah shit. Must be signing for Liverpool then.
Post by: Escla on May 24, 2019, 02:08:18 PM
He’s still in the UK then
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That’s about 100 yards up from the Hotel Arts, Ritz Carlton in Barcelona.
Post by: Alanvideo on May 26, 2019, 02:44:46 PM
Sunday Times ...............
West Ham have made an offer to Barcelona in the region of £18m for Andre Gomes. The 25-year-old Portugal international spent last season on loan at Everton, where he made 27 Premier League appearances. While the Merseyside club would like to retain Gomes, no preferential option to buy the midfielder was included in last summer’s single-season loan deal.
The Hammers have made a series of offers for Gomes, whom Manuel Pellegrini as identified as a priority signing ahead of his second campaign at the London club. Barca value Gomes – who is under contract to the Liga champions until 2021 – at around twice West Ham’s bid. The Catalan club Barca acquired Gomes from Valencia in 2016 for an initial transfer fee of €35m plus €20m in performance-related variables (currently £30.8m plus £17.6m )
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 26, 2019, 02:50:03 PM
the mighty WHU have offered £18m for Gomes
Sunday Times ...............
West Ham have made an offer to Barcelona in the region of £18m for Andre Gomes. The 25-year-old Portugal international spent last season on loan at Everton, where he made 27 Premier League appearances. While the Merseyside club would like to retain Gomes, no preferential option to buy the midfielder was included in last summer’s single-season loan deal.
The Hammers have made a series of offers for Gomes, whom Manuel Pellegrini as identified as a priority signing ahead of his second campaign at the London club. Barca value Gomes – who is under contract to the Liga champions until 2021 – at around twice West Ham’s bid. The Catalan club Barca acquired Gomes from Valencia in 2016 for an initial transfer fee of €35m plus €20m in performance-related variables (currently £30.8m plus £17.6m )
They are so generous
Post by: Paddockoldie on May 26, 2019, 03:26:49 PM
Post by: Escla on May 26, 2019, 03:29:45 PM
Post by: Alanvideo on May 26, 2019, 04:14:40 PM
What a ridiculous offer, they might have stood a chance at double that.................yes I only posted it because its The Times which usually can be trusted but its a silly offer.
Post by: sam of the south on May 26, 2019, 10:01:26 PM
As good as he looks on the ball when he’s on song, he doesn’t tackle, score, or assist much, nor does he give us shape like a Schneiderlin can.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on May 26, 2019, 10:19:31 PM
I wouldn’t want us to pay a great deal over £20m for him to be honest.Are you being serious there mate?
As good as he looks on the ball when he’s on song, he doesn’t tackle, score, or assist much, nor does he give us shape like a Schneiderlin can.
Post by: BlueForYou on May 26, 2019, 10:36:00 PM
We're both bidding for Welbeck?
And they are offering us Cresswell?
Post by: sam of the south on May 26, 2019, 10:45:24 PM
Are you being serious there mate?
What bit do you disagree with?
The Schneiderlin reference?
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on May 26, 2019, 11:01:03 PM
What bit do you disagree with?Before the last few games when he put some effort in Morgan was a crime scene, was hoping he was just being put in the shop window, we'll see. Gomes is a must if we can get him, his creativity wouldn't be in doubt if we'd have a top drawer CF, that's what we need to take the next step surely? but being stuck with a Morgan instead of landing a Gomes wouldn't be progress surely?
The Schneiderlin reference?
Post by: sam of the south on May 26, 2019, 11:12:22 PM
Before the last few games when he put some effort in Morgan was a crime scene, was hoping he was just being put in the shop window, we'll see. Gomes is a must if we can get him, his creativity wouldn't be in doubt if we'd have a top drawer CF, that's what we need to take the next step surely? but being stuck with a Morgan instead of landing a Gomes wouldn't be progress surely?
Yes, but what I was saying was I would rather us shell out £35m on a DM #6 than Gomes, that will give us that base to play from.
Gomes was really good at times, but he still doesn’t make me think he will be the sort of CM that will take us to the next level; As I said, he doesn’t score, assist, tackle, or intercept much, and we could really do with an assist machine alongside Sigurdsson, so that Sigurdsson can just be Sigurdsson.
I know that Bernard, for instance, didn’t score or assist much either, but his link-play, tracking back, and interceptions were wonderful at times. Apart from avoiding the press (which he did brilliantly during that period before the first Derby) I can’t think of anything Gomes does exceptionally well that would warrant us spending a large chunk of our budget on him.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on May 26, 2019, 11:20:36 PM
Yes, but what I was saying was I would rather us shell out £35m on a DM #6 than Gomes, that will give us that base to play from.Fair enough mate, but he's not had long and already provided some lovely moments and would hate to see the full benefit gotten by someone else, he could be so fucking good for us and when we look at what we've paid for shite why not take the risk? it's no our money...:]
Gomes was really good at times, but he still doesn’t make me think he will be the sort of CM that will take us to the next level; As I said, he doesn’t score, assist, tackle, or intercept much, and we could really do with an assist machine alongside Sigurdsson, so that Sigurdsson can just be Sigurdsson.
I know that Bernard, for instance, didn’t score or assist much either, but his link-play, tracking back, and interceptions were wonderful at times. Apart from avoiding the press (which he did brilliantly during that period before the first Derby) I can’t think of anything Gomes does exceptionally well that would warrant us spending a large chunk of our budget on him.
Post by: Hesmenos on May 26, 2019, 11:27:55 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 26, 2019, 11:29:28 PM
Before the last few games when he put some effort in Morgan was a crime scene, was hoping he was just being put in the shop window, we'll see. Gomes is a must if we can get him, his creativity wouldn't be in doubt if we'd have a top drawer CF, that's what we need to take the next step surely? but being stuck with a Morgan instead of landing a Gomes wouldn't be progress surely?
His numbers weren’t great at Barcelona either. They had a forward.
Post by: sam of the south on May 26, 2019, 11:38:34 PM
Fair enough mate, but he's not had long and already provided some lovely moments and would hate to see the full benefit gotten by someone else, he could be so fucking good for us and when we look at what we've paid for shite why not take the risk? it's no our money...:]
Yeah, man, I can feel that you don’t really wanna marry him, but you don’t like the thought of him sucking off someone else
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on May 26, 2019, 11:38:53 PM
His numbers weren’t great at Barcelona either. They had a forward.Just going off what iv'e seen of him here and in flashes have loved him and would like to see him stay and produce it more next season for us
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 26, 2019, 11:44:47 PM
Just going off what iv'e seen of him here and in flashes have loved him and would like to see him stay and produce it more next season for us
Don’t get me wrong I’d like us to sign him but he does appear to be very elegant without the numbers
I do worry what happens if we lose gueye. Not sure we can play Gomes and sigurdsson together without the defensive monster.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on May 26, 2019, 11:48:14 PM
Yeah, man, I can feel that you don’t really wanna marry him, but you don’t like the thought of him sucking off someone elseIf he delivers his potential for us next season ill make the sacrifice and ditch the wife, if Andre needs me.
Post by: Ross on May 26, 2019, 11:49:58 PM
Anything south of £20m though would be a great deal, and if we could offset that with selling Schneiderlin and Besic it’s a no brainier really.
Post by: Bluedylan on May 26, 2019, 11:52:20 PM
But I'd happily have him as a one of a compliment of 4/5 central midfielders who can all do different jobs, and have to battle it out in training and games to get in the team.
Post by: Hesmenos on May 26, 2019, 11:52:46 PM
Just going off what iv'e seen of him here and in flashes have loved him and would like to see him stay and produce it more next season for usI think most of us would love him to sign permanently, the difference is our evaluation. If its 20-25M meaning there's money left over to buy a proper no. 6 to play behind him then its a no brainer. But as the price gets closer to 40M then you wonder if we could use that money to buy someone who can do what he does but also defend or someone who can do what he does but also be more creative. (How much would Donny Van De Beek cost?)
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on May 26, 2019, 11:58:38 PM
Don’t get me wrong I’d like us to sign him but he does appear to be very elegant without the numbersYea would like to see Gueye,Zouma and Gomes stay, along with most fans probably, Gueye especially has been a massive improve this season fair play to him, Zouma just awsum from the off, Zouma also brings out the better side of Keane like Ben Mee did at Burnley, Gomes did have a spell helpin Gueye out defensively, thought he did well and it was pretty impressive to be fair to him, but he got stick for it from some but it was needs must at the time.
I do worry what happens if we lose gueye. Not sure we can play Gomes and sigurdsson together without the defensive monster.
Post by: sam of the south on May 27, 2019, 12:09:48 AM
I wouldn't want us to necessarily build anything around him, and see him as the solution or focal point of our midfield.
But I'd happily have him as a one of a compliment of 4/5 central midfielders who can all do different jobs, and have to battle it out in training and games to get in the team.
I totally agree.
I just don’t think he does enough good stuff to warrant the likely outlay, though.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on May 27, 2019, 12:35:15 AM
Post by: Macca77 on May 27, 2019, 01:44:08 AM
Source, piss head in my local who's mate works at Finch Farm.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on May 27, 2019, 02:17:34 AM
Seems everyone needs adjustment time including a poorly performing manager, but Gomes has had all the time needed to fully adjust to his new situation, nothing like consistency in evaluation of staff.
His numbers are consistent with his time at other clubs.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on May 27, 2019, 02:42:39 AM
His numbers are consistent with his time at other clubs.They just weren't the right clubs..next season though is his time..
Post by: Shogun on May 27, 2019, 05:57:16 AM
Done deal, 27 million, 3 year contract.
Source, piss head in my local who's mate works at Finch Farm.
Didn't know you had a mate who works in Finch Farm
Post by: MmmblueBernard on May 27, 2019, 06:40:16 AM
Done deal, 27 million, 3 year contract.
Source, piss head in my local who's mate works at Finch Farm.
Mustn’t grumble.
Post by: Toddacelli on May 27, 2019, 12:10:05 PM
Post by: Bluebridge on May 27, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
Didn't know you had a mate who works in Finch FarmIt’s the piss heads mate he said 🤪
Post by: American Evertonian on May 27, 2019, 11:07:04 PM
Post by: Mayor Farnum on May 27, 2019, 11:26:34 PM
West Ham bidding £18m is laughable.
Might provoke us to get our skates on.
Post by: Free Agent on May 27, 2019, 11:34:46 PM
West Ham bidding £18m is laughable.
Reminds me of those phantom bids some clubs used to make :whistle:
Post by: American Evertonian on May 28, 2019, 01:28:40 AM
Might provoke us to get our skates on.
I assumed it was all papertalk until Sky started running with it. Can see us coming in for £25m and wrap it up
Post by: ally2 on May 28, 2019, 02:45:52 AM
Post by: sam of the south on May 28, 2019, 02:55:59 AM
Oh I miss phantom bids in a way. Alan Smith was one wasn't he?
Yeah, I hung out with him a few times in my sister’s pub in Florida during Euro 2000; he was a nice lad, and I told him to sign for Everton then. Also met Steve Watson that year, told him the same, and he said “There might be sommet in that, Kiddah”. He signed a couple of weeks later 🤗
Post by: Paddockoldie on May 28, 2019, 03:30:59 AM
Oh I miss phantom bids in a way. Alan Smith was one wasn't he?
Don't forget the Rooney scam by Utd and Bobby Robson...
Post by: Gary1878 on May 28, 2019, 03:43:17 PM
Oh I miss phantom bids in a way. Alan Smith was one wasn't he?
Alan Smith is synonymous with the classic phantom bid. No chance of him wanting to move to us, no money to buy to him, and I actually think we didn't want him and Leeds to say yes because then we would have actually had to pay for him.
Post by: Hesmenos on May 28, 2019, 04:57:20 PM
Post by: Trowel on May 28, 2019, 06:06:49 PM
Post by: formerKHL on May 28, 2019, 06:19:29 PM
Post by: gizzblue on May 28, 2019, 08:23:20 PM
Love to be proved wrong but I've a horrible feeling on this .
Post by: Robioto on May 28, 2019, 08:26:14 PM
Think myself this would ve been done if it was cut n dried ...
Love to be proved wrong but I've a horrible feeling on this .
They always take longer than you think they should. Gomes will rightly be looking at all offers. It's still May, some of the big European leagues only finished over the weekend and Gomes may well want a break before going over his future.
I'm certainly not worried by a West Ham bid!
Post by: Waltzer on May 28, 2019, 08:27:26 PM
Think myself this would ve been done if it was cut n dried ...
Love to be proved wrong but I've a horrible feeling on this .
Everything is pure speculation at the moment, maybe Brands and Silva are working on better deals that make more financial sense, maybe they're negotiating with Barca, maybe a deal is agreed but Gomes wants time to consider his options? We seem to play our cards much closer to our chest now and things dont seem to get leaked, which is good for us as a club, but bad for fans!! :)
Post by: Robioto on May 28, 2019, 08:32:59 PM
Imagine if Martinez or Koeman went in and they were the reason he didn't join us. The rage.
Post by: Paddockoldie on May 28, 2019, 08:46:51 PM
Post by: Trowel on May 28, 2019, 10:30:05 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on May 28, 2019, 10:30:54 PM
Spurs bidding €60m for Giovani Lo Celso, could be the end of any interest they have in Gomes.
He's a wide player.
Post by: Trowel on May 28, 2019, 10:36:48 PM
Post by: Macca77 on May 28, 2019, 10:42:51 PM
https://twitter.com/EFC_Insider/status/1133395524139257859
Post by: markB on May 28, 2019, 10:51:37 PM
He's a wide player.
yeah sure he is https://www.transfermarkt.com/giovani-lo-celso/leistungsdaten/spieler/348795
PSG fucked up letting this one go
if spurs are bidding that much for him someone has to be getting sold
Post by: Macca77 on May 29, 2019, 01:17:15 AM
Post by: Trowel on May 29, 2019, 01:31:03 AM
What a rag.
Post by: brap2 on May 29, 2019, 01:53:16 AM
Dunno how legit this fella is
https://twitter.com/EFC_Insider/status/1133395524139257859
Legit if I remember correctly.
Love the look of those alternatives.
Post by: D15TIN on May 29, 2019, 02:33:06 AM
Legit if I remember correctly.is that account reliable yeah? Seen it a few times but presumed it was some kid
Love the look of those alternatives.
Post by: Heisenberg on May 29, 2019, 03:20:31 AM
...am I their source?
What a rag.
lolol lolol lolol
Post by: dunkster on May 30, 2019, 09:19:06 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on May 30, 2019, 09:19:55 PM
Yeah the gathering story is spurs have swapped their interest to James maddisonTotally different players but sound
Post by: BlueBeagle on May 30, 2019, 09:36:17 PM
Totally different players but sound
Perfectly feasible that they've prioritised bringing in a different position over CM assuming they have a limited transfer budget again
Post by: Jimmywhack on May 30, 2019, 09:37:09 PM
Perfectly feasible that they've prioritised bringing in a different position over CM assuming they have a limited transfer budget againNot doubting that
I would say replacing eriksen would be top priority
Post by: Juanito on May 30, 2019, 11:12:03 PM
He's a wide player.
He’s not. He plays in Gomes’s position as an 8.
Post by: Bluedylan on May 30, 2019, 11:20:49 PM
He’s not. He plays in Gomes’s position as an 8.
Yeah, someone else said that. I saw him play wide the one time I've seen him, and looked at Whoscored and apparently he's played CM, AM, RW and LW.
Post by: Juanito on May 31, 2019, 01:55:57 AM
Yeah, someone else said that. I saw him play wide the one time I've seen him, and looked at Whoscored and apparently he's played CM, AM, RW and LW.
Oh right. Suppose he could do a job there cutting inside etc.
Post by: Macca77 on May 31, 2019, 03:12:11 PM
Post by: TheRam on May 31, 2019, 03:31:39 PM
Post by: brap2 on May 31, 2019, 03:35:35 PM
Doubt there was anything ever in that.
I think it made some sense but they have sissokho who does that job better I think.
Post by: TheRam on May 31, 2019, 03:46:26 PM
I think it made some sense but they have sissokho who does that job better I think.
Nahhhhhhhhh lad.
Post by: brap2 on May 31, 2019, 04:10:55 PM
Nahhhhhhhhh lad.
Ah you're not one of these sissokho is crap people are you?
He's got fellaini disease. Good player who is a meme.
Also I'm not talking about position btw just job of 'move the ball up the pitch'.
Post by: TheRam on May 31, 2019, 04:24:42 PM
Ah you're not one of these sissokho is crap people are you?
He's got fellaini disease. Good player who is a meme.
Also I'm not talking about position btw just job of 'move the ball up the pitch'.
Nah, think he’s good. Love a powerful runner in midfield and he’s very good at that
Bit too erractic on the ball for me though to say he’s better than Gomes.
Plus, how long has he got left in him playing that way at his age?
Post by: Tinga on May 31, 2019, 04:41:29 PM
Post by: brap2 on May 31, 2019, 05:08:57 PM
Nah, think he’s good. Love a powerful runner in midfield and he’s very good at that
Bit too erractic on the ball for me though to say he’s better than Gomes.
Plus, how long has he got left in him playing that way at his age?
All good points
Post by: brap2 on May 31, 2019, 05:09:26 PM
I love how Gomes is quality and more than this Everton side can attract but he still gets the 'hes not that good anyway didn't want him anyway' crap.
Where's anyone said that?
I'm just glad we've moved past the 'better than arteta' phase of delusion.
Post by: D15TIN on May 31, 2019, 07:51:56 PM
the player himself may have been saying he wants Everton anyway, so theyre dropping any interest, he's posted himself in an airport today on his insta, and still has 'Everton player' in his insta bio, woo ha
Post by: Trowel on June 01, 2019, 03:09:40 PM
https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbol/fc-barcelona/20190601/462587603438/barca-andre-gomes.html
Post by: Macca77 on June 01, 2019, 03:15:38 PM
Post by: Jimmywhack on June 01, 2019, 03:53:37 PM
Hes returned to Barca today cos his loan deal has expiredThis makes me sad
Post by: Omar on June 01, 2019, 06:44:53 PM
Mundo Deportivo say we've opened negotiations with Barca, looks like €30m is their valuation.
https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbol/fc-barcelona/20190601/462587603438/barca-andre-gomes.html
Probably fair that. Would be nice to get them down to 25 though. Think they’ll say fuck off at 20.
Post by: pjk on June 01, 2019, 07:10:42 PM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on June 01, 2019, 07:16:52 PM
30 million euro's, he got to be worth that. that's about 7 million quid more than Schneiderlin. He's miles better than Schneiderlin. :)
500 colemans
Post by: pjk on June 01, 2019, 07:25:32 PM
500 colemans
Coleman is definitely a one off. Chances of doing that again, is unlikely. But yeah! 500 Colemans. "Runs out of fingers". :)
Post by: brap2 on June 01, 2019, 09:31:19 PM
Oh nevermind don't worry about it.
Post by: Hesmenos on June 01, 2019, 10:08:09 PM
Thought we where in for a season of clever free kick routines, Schneiderlin back to his best and Walcott to break his scoring record.
Post by: sam of the south on June 01, 2019, 10:54:09 PM
That sweet no-look pass to Walcott from the free kick against Southampton.
Thought we where in for a season of clever free kick routines, Schneiderlin back to his best and Walcott to break his scoring record.
Haha, I thought similar!
Such a false dawn in that regard, although both looked decent in the run-in
Post by: TheRam on June 01, 2019, 11:00:33 PM
Leave that business to the lads infront of him.
Post by: eyesalwaysblue on June 01, 2019, 11:26:36 PM
Morgan Schneiderlin, a genuine safety first crab, created more goal scoring chances per 90 minutes this year than..The worst and most disingenuous post iv'e ever seen, absolute bollocks.
Oh nevermind don't worry about it.
Post by: BlueBeagle on June 02, 2019, 12:07:51 AM
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on June 02, 2019, 12:15:23 AM
Gomes is the type of player that shows (to me at least) why total and blind faith in the recent trend of 'stat bombs' for deciding if a player is good or not is a load of shite
I don’t know. I think generally people dismiss the stats when they want to pretend a subpar player is doing enough. In almost all cases if a striker isn’t getting goals he’s a bit rubbish. If a midfielder isn’t creating or tackling he’s a bit rubbish too. You don’t have to tick all the boxes stats wise but you have to be ticking some of them. I like Gomes. On his day he’s very good on the eye. I’d sooner someone with great stats for making goals and tackles though.
Post by: Dr. Sponge on June 02, 2019, 12:50:52 AM
I don't know. I think generally people dismiss the stats when they want to pretend a subpar player is doing enough. In almost all cases if a striker isn't getting goals he's a bit rubbish. If a midfielder isn't creating or tackling he's a bit rubbish too. You don't have to tick all the boxes stats wise but you have to be ticking some of them. I like Gomes. On his day he's very good on the eye. I'd sooner someone with great stats for making goals and tackles though.
I disagree. Stats are probably used as a guide, but I doubt they’d sign a player based on stats alone without actually watching them. I’ve watched Gomes and I can confirm he is a class act.
How do you measure the confidence that Gomes in possession gives the players around him to move into space and expect the ball?
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Post by: brap2 on June 02, 2019, 01:08:15 AM
Not arsed about that myself.
Leave that business to the lads infront of him.
Oh I'm not that arsed and still happy to sign him, he's nice isn't he. Nice to watch. Good ball progressor, so it would matter a lot less if we had really good creators ahead.
But come onnnnn. Surely you saying you're not arsed at ALL how he is when it comes to making chances compared to everyone else in the league who plays that position...little bit disingenuous surely
Post by: brap2 on June 02, 2019, 02:18:46 AM
The worst and most disingenuous post iv'e ever seen, absolute bollocks.
Explain please?
Post by: Nicco on June 02, 2019, 02:26:32 AM
Gomes is the type of player that shows (to me at least) why total and blind faith in the recent trend of 'stat bombs' for deciding if a player is good or not is a load of shiteThen we invent some stats for Gomes.
Like keeping-possession-while-under-pressure-so-your-team-mates-find-open-space-stat.
So now everyone is happy and we can buy him without a fuss
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Post by: Cereal Killer on June 02, 2019, 03:23:53 AM
Post by: brap2 on June 02, 2019, 03:58:43 AM
Post by: Silas on June 02, 2019, 04:19:14 AM
Post by: brap2 on June 02, 2019, 07:53:30 PM