Post by: Toddacelli on December 11, 2018, 07:13:47 PM
When he came in he was exactly what we needed and what we were missing.
Having said all that - I'm finding him really frustrating this season. He seems to give possession away almost as much as he wins it back - with his age being a factor too, I'm ready to see a replacement come in for him.
Am I in the minority?
Post by: Jimmywhack on December 11, 2018, 07:16:17 PM
I think Gueye has been fantastic for us.In general, he is a huge asset for away games and the big home games. Against sides who wanna nullify us then he isn't needed as he gets found out
When he came in he was exactly what we needed and what we were missing.
Having said all that - I'm finding him really frustrating this season. He seems to give possession away almost as much as he wins it back - with his age being a factor too, I'm ready to see a replacement come in for him.
Am I in the minority?
Post by: Brownie on December 11, 2018, 07:19:43 PM
Post by: Cereal Killer on December 11, 2018, 07:53:04 PM
I think Gueye has been fantastic for us.
When he came in he was exactly what we needed and what we were missing.
Having said all that - I'm finding him really frustrating this season. He seems to give possession away almost as much as he wins it back - with his age being a factor too, I'm ready to see a replacement come in for him.
Am I in the minority?
He doesn't need replacing, we just need an alternative who is more comfortable in possession to play against those teams that sit deep and don't really try and do anything of note attacking wise
Post by: Audrey Horne on December 11, 2018, 08:15:54 PM
Post by: Hawkandro on December 11, 2018, 08:52:16 PM
Post by: blueToffee on December 11, 2018, 09:08:15 PM
May be the case he’s not needed in every scenario though.
Post by: brap2 on December 11, 2018, 09:15:16 PM
Gomes willingness to take the ball in tight areas and switch it or dribble with it to evade pressure are helping, but nobody wants to play it into feet or into runs, and we can’t hold it up generally when we do anyway.
Bit embarrassing last night that our forward passing to the strikers was largely Mina or the bloody keeper to be honest.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 11, 2018, 09:18:59 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on December 11, 2018, 09:38:45 PM
Find it a bit odd that when we struggle to break a side down people want gueye replaced. He’s the 1 defensive minded player in our midfield and he’s doing a great job defensively. Surely we should be asking for a lot more from Walcott, Bernard and sigurdsson and expecting a quality striker signed. Gueye really isn’t the problem. He’s probably been 1 of our 3 or 4 best players this season
I don't think it's meant as particularly a criticism of Gana. He does what he does really well, as we all know. It's just whether you can afford to have a player who purely does defensive duties, and generally fucks up any attacking play, against defensive teams.
Post by: kramer0 on December 11, 2018, 09:50:25 PM
Gana/Gomes/Davies (for matches where we need Gomes' pressure resistance and a little more bite defensively)
Gana/Gomes/Bernard (to see how we fare with a different playmaker)
Gomes/Davies/Sigurdsson or Bernard (for when we're going to have a lot of the ball)
We're in a pretty stable position overall. A little bit of tinkering could help us develop some tactical variations for dealing with different types of matches.
Post by: Waltzer on December 11, 2018, 09:51:54 PM
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Post by: Toddacelli on December 11, 2018, 10:36:22 PM
Find it a bit odd that when we struggle to break a side down people want gueye replaced. He’s the 1 defensive minded player in our midfield and he’s doing a great job defensively. Surely we should be asking for a lot more from Walcott, Bernard and sigurdsson and expecting a quality striker signed. Gueye really isn’t the problem. He’s probably been 1 of our 3 or 4 best players this season
This is not off the back of last night - this is a general observation from all of his games (that I've seen).
I feel like I'm always cheering one minute when he's won the ball back and cursing him the next for when he's given possession away cheaply and allowed the opposition to bypass him and the rest of our midfield.
It'd be interesting to see if this is something of a confirmation bias I have every time it happens - or if he is genuinely giving the ball away a lot.
Post by: Bluedylan on December 11, 2018, 10:38:13 PM
This is not off the back of last night - this is a general observation from all of his games (that I've seen).
I feel like I'm always cheering one minute when he's won the ball back and cursing him the next for when he's given possession away cheaply and allowed the opposition to bypass him and the rest of our midfield.
It'd be interesting to see if this is something of a confirmation bias I have every time it happens - or if he is genuinely giving the ball away a lot.
You'd have to separate his 5 yard passes back to the centre halves, when he's unmarked and could turn with the ball, and anytime he tries to pass the ball forwards or through tight spaces.
Post by: bluenuck on December 11, 2018, 11:28:43 PM
In general, he is a huge asset for away games and the big home games. Against sides who wanna nullify us then he isn't needed as he gets found out
It's this and more of this.
Against about say ~12 teams in the league he's awesome.
Put him up against that shite Newcastle side and he's just atrocious. Silva needs to notice this and bring Davies on at the half when teams do that to us. At least he tries to make the forward pass.
I don't want him gone till we sort out the box to box mid, and even our attacking mid.
Post by: Waltzer on December 12, 2018, 12:47:22 AM
It's this and more of this.Agree with what you're saying, but Davies isn't the answer!
Against about say ~12 teams in the league he's awesome.
Put him up against that shite Newcastle side and he's just atrocious. Silva needs to notice this and bring Davies on at the half when teams do that to us. At least he tries to make the forward pass.
I don't want him gone till we sort out the box to box mid, and even our attacking mid.
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Post by: eyesalwaysblue on December 12, 2018, 01:49:14 AM
Post by: Bluenose 91 on December 12, 2018, 06:17:16 PM
Someone said it in another thread but that fucking Derby seems to have killed us.
Post by: Martip on December 22, 2018, 12:26:19 AM
According to French football journalist Matt Spiro, the Ligue 1 heavyweights are eyeing up a move to sign a central midfielder in January.
He reports that they have identified Liverpool’s Fabinho, Chelsea’s Cesc Fabregas and Gueye as potential targets ahead of the transfer window.
The French side have been lacking in the middle of the park somewhat this season, with the bargain signing of free agent Lassana Diarra not enough to provide sufficient cover in Thomas Tuchel’s squad.
Post by: GLewis on December 22, 2018, 12:30:35 AM
The French side have been lacking in the middle of the park somewhat this season, with the bargain signing of free agent Lassana Diarra not enough to provide sufficient cover in Thomas Tuchel’s squad.
*sarcastically shocked face*
Post by: D15TIN on December 22, 2018, 12:36:00 AM
I would like to see Silva do a little more experimenting with combinations in midfield.I think youll see that over this Christmas period
Gana/Gomes/Davies (for matches where we need Gomes' pressure resistance and a little more bite defensively)
Gana/Gomes/Bernard (to see how we fare with a different playmaker)
Gomes/Davies/Sigurdsson or Bernard (for when we're going to have a lot of the ball)
We're in a pretty stable position overall. A little bit of tinkering could help us develop some tactical variations for dealing with different types of matches.
Post by: kramer0 on December 22, 2018, 12:37:09 AM
Post by: TheRam on December 22, 2018, 01:07:01 AM
Post by: kramer0 on December 22, 2018, 01:09:35 AM
I think he’s great but would be up for selling him.
Agreed. He's having a great season since he's being used properly but we're going to have to replace him soon anyway.
If PSG make a good offer, we should take it.
Post by: brap2 on December 22, 2018, 01:33:12 AM
Post by: Cereal Killer on December 22, 2018, 01:59:41 AM
Post by: Macca77 on December 22, 2018, 02:22:42 AM
Post by: Thomas on December 22, 2018, 02:38:23 AM
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Post by: TheRam on December 22, 2018, 02:40:58 AM
Vastly over rated. If we are to move on as a team we need an upgrade on him. I like the guy btw but he has found his level.
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Yet you’ve just said we should try and get Danny drink water.
Come on man.
Post by: Martip on December 22, 2018, 03:04:54 AM
Vastly over rated. If we are to move on as a team we need an upgrade on him. I like the guy btw but he has found his level.You vastly underate him tbh. It's no coincidence a team the quality of PSG are after him and his stats are up there as some of the best in Europe for his position. It's not his fault we lack creativity and it's not fair to expect him to create.
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Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 22, 2018, 03:51:23 AM
Vastly over rated. If we are to move on as a team we need an upgrade on him. I like the guy btw but he has found his level.
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His level? Everton or PSG?
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on December 22, 2018, 03:52:34 AM
You vastly underate him tbh. It's no coincidence a team the quality of PSG are after him and his stats are up there as some of the best in Europe for his position. It's not his fault we lack creativity and it's not fair to expect him to create.
Every time we are shite offensively half the forum wants our best defensive player replaced
Post by: Thomas on December 22, 2018, 04:59:38 AM
I think he’s great but would be up for selling him.
Who was better
Olivier Dacourt
or
Gana
I remember Olivier and he was a machine but he could also play a bit. The only bad thing was his tackling was shite sometimes.
Post by: Goaljira on December 22, 2018, 12:28:14 PM
Who was better
Olivier Dacourt
or
Gana
I remember Olivier and he was a machine but he could also play a bit. The only bad thing was his tackling was shite sometimes.
You'd be better comparing Dacourt to Gomes style wise.
Another crazy comparison would be saying who is best out of Gana and Barry Horne, as they both played a more similar role.
Post by: Toddacelli on December 28, 2018, 02:22:40 PM
Post by: Thornton_19 on December 28, 2018, 06:42:24 PM
Who was betterThis is the shout of a man whos point is drowning fast.
Olivier Dacourt
or
Gana
I remember Olivier and he was a machine but he could also play a bit. The only bad thing was his tackling was shite sometimes.
Who was better Gueye or Makelele?
Post by: Shogun on December 28, 2018, 06:51:50 PM
Post by: Toddacelli on December 28, 2018, 07:13:17 PM
(Clint & Brian)
Post by: Ell Capitan on December 28, 2018, 07:40:54 PM
Post by: Gary1878 on December 28, 2018, 08:07:03 PM
What statistics available over the past 3 seasons suggest that he isn't good enough?
Post by: Thomas on December 28, 2018, 10:16:12 PM
This is the shout of a man whos point is drowning fast.Dacourt played for Roma and Inter.
Who was better Gueye or Makelele?
Gueye has played for Villa.
Our fans seriously think we can get top 6 with Gana and Davies in the team and are telling me they are the football experts.
Hahahahahahahaha
Delusional.
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Post by: TheRam on December 28, 2018, 10:25:44 PM
Dacourt played for Roma and Inter.
Gueye has played for Villa.
Our fans seriously think we can get top 6 with Gana and Davies in the team and are telling me they are the football experts.
Hahahahahahahaha
Delusional.
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You want us to sign Danny drinkwater
Post by: Brownie on December 28, 2018, 11:02:20 PM
Dacourt played for Roma and Inter.
Gueye has played for Villa.
Our fans seriously think we can get top 6 with Gana and Davies in the team and are telling me they are the football experts.
Hahahahahahahaha
Delusional.
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Davies is not our starting CM, but well done for shoehorning your agenda into an argument about a different player. The fact that Gana is being linked with a big club tells you all you need to know
Post by: brap2 on December 28, 2018, 11:05:46 PM
Dacourt played for Roma and Inter.
Gueye has played for Villa.
Our fans seriously think we can get top 6 with Gana and Davies in the team and are telling me they are the football experts.
Hahahahahahahaha
Delusional.
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Who is telling you they are football experts?
Post by: Silas on December 28, 2018, 11:30:14 PM
Who is telling you they are football experts?
I'm a fucking genius like
Post by: Bob Sacamano on December 29, 2018, 01:53:03 AM
Post by: Waltzer on December 29, 2018, 02:46:13 AM
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Post by: Thomas on December 29, 2018, 02:55:05 AM
You want us to sign Danny drinkwaterWho won the league and then Chelsea signed him.
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Post by: Waltzer on December 29, 2018, 03:00:19 AM
Who won the league and then Chelsea signed him.Darron Gibson, Tom Cleverly and Jack Rodwell have also won the league, whereas players like Gerrard never, I know who I'd have preferred us to sign.....
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Post by: Bob Sacamano on December 29, 2018, 03:06:45 AM
Oh boy lolol
Post by: Brownie on December 29, 2018, 03:10:50 AM
Who won the league and then Chelsea signed him.
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And he’s played about as many games fir them as I have.
Post by: Thornton_19 on December 29, 2018, 03:33:33 AM
Who won the league and then Chelsea signed him.Nathan Dyer has a Premier League winners medal.
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So do Richard Wright, Luke Chadwick, Pascal Cygan, Jérémie Aliadère, Jesper Blomqvist, Jack Rodwell.
Post by: brap2 on December 29, 2018, 04:00:47 AM
Post by: Bob Sacamano on December 29, 2018, 04:01:06 AM
Post by: Bob Sacamano on December 29, 2018, 04:01:39 AM
This is absolutely insane
Yeah but Marco Materazzi mate.
Post by: Thomas on December 29, 2018, 04:27:37 AM
Tbf Drinkwater was massively important in there title win. Nevertheless, suggesting he replaces Gana is either trolling or misunderstanding footy.I liked that for the first half.
There was also clamour for him to go to Euro 2016 and surprise when he did not.
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Post by: Thomas on December 29, 2018, 04:40:11 AM
Nathan Dyer has a Premier League winners medal.None of those players literally where the spine behind them winning the league.
So do Richard Wright, Luke Chadwick, Pascal Cygan, Jérémie Aliadère, Jesper Blomqvist, Jack Rodwell.
I'd rather have Lee Carsley than Gana. Tbf that's probably Nostalgia but at least we finished 4th with Carsley.
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Post by: brap2 on December 29, 2018, 04:49:43 AM
https://statsbomb.com/2018/11/idrissa-gueye-powers-evertons-surprising-defense/
Post by: Waltzer on December 29, 2018, 01:18:09 PM
Can I ask you, what do you think of this?My take on this is that his stats do look very impressive on paper, and I was talking about them to a spurs fan and he said what he'd like to know is how many of those tackles won or interceptions were as a result of him giving the ball away about 5 seconds before, which I tend to agree with. There are other interesting stats which you can read into:
https://statsbomb.com/2018/11/idrissa-gueye-powers-evertons-surprising-defense/
In 117 games he's played we've lost 51, his tackle success is 74% and his duels won are 871 compared to 601 lost. Its hard to tell in my opinion if him being top of the ranking for tackles etc is a good or bad thing or if these are just down to work rate, by rule if you do something a lot more than someone else then you should be top, or near to it, it doesn't necessarily indicate the importance of the tackle /interception and also doesn't go into those duels lost; was he hunting the ball in areas he shouldn't have been meaning he got bypassed and we got massively exposed, which has happened? As I said previously, I think he's a very good player, but I don't think he's irreplaceable
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Post by: brap2 on December 29, 2018, 07:45:20 PM
My take on this is that his stats do look very impressive on paper, and I was talking about them to a spurs fan and he said what he'd like to know is how many of those tackles won or interceptions were as a result of him giving the ball away about 5 seconds before, which I tend to agree with. There are other interesting stats which you can read into:
In 117 games he's played we've lost 51, his tackle success is 74% and his duels won are 871 compared to 601 lost. Its hard to tell in my opinion if him being top of the ranking for tackles etc is a good or bad thing or if these are just down to work rate, by rule if you do something a lot more than someone else then you should be top, or near to it, it doesn't necessarily indicate the importance of the tackle /interception and also doesn't go into those duels lost; was he hunting the ball in areas he shouldn't have been meaning he got bypassed and we got massively exposed, which has happened? As I said previously, I think he's a very good player, but I don't think he's irreplaceable
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This is a good point re: the amount he has to tackle, but I think it’s wrong to look at it like how many tackles did he have to make because of his own fault, it’s more like, how many tackles does he have to make because the teams shape and the amount the opposition are allowed into his zone (deep, central) which means he has to work hard and win it back again and again, in a better side he wouldn’t need to.
But at the end of the day, he does have to for us and he is doing it at an extraordinary level according to this article, and masking the side’s deficiencies.
Post by: mikey_blue on January 07, 2019, 08:46:43 PM
It would be a good price to get for him, but I think we’ll suffer in the short term without him.
Post by: TheRam on January 07, 2019, 08:57:12 PM
Very shrewd business.
Post by: Macca77 on January 07, 2019, 09:02:50 PM
Post by: D15TIN on January 07, 2019, 10:36:09 PM
Sounds like it could be barrios in and Gana out.apparently this barrios is as bad a passer as Gana though, just like for like really
Very shrewd business.
Post by: Martip on January 07, 2019, 10:40:02 PM
Sounds like it could be barrios in and Gana out.I wonder at what point Morgan realises he maybe needs to consider moving on. Sad as it sounds I'm not sure he's even arsed.
Very shrewd business.
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 07, 2019, 11:02:55 PM
I wonder at what point Morgan realises he maybe needs to consider moving on. Sad as it sounds I'm not sure he's even arsed.Last Saturday
Post by: kramer0 on January 07, 2019, 11:14:14 PM
He's limited, which can cause problems when he's asked to venture into the final third or do anything more than keep it simple, but he's generally good at nailing the passes he tries. He's also much more aggressive at showing for the ball than the more technically gifted players we have in the middle (Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Gomes).
Post by: Brownie on January 07, 2019, 11:33:22 PM
Post by: Martip on January 07, 2019, 11:47:37 PM
Post by: D15TIN on January 08, 2019, 12:05:03 AM
Post by: brap2 on January 08, 2019, 12:09:22 AM
Post by: TheTone on January 08, 2019, 12:16:55 AM
I hope we get a direct replacement and another cm of a different profile, give us more options.
Big Doucoure, sick of us getting outmuscled in there
Post by: Trowel on January 08, 2019, 12:18:25 AM
Post by: Silas on January 08, 2019, 12:41:41 AM
I don't think it's fair to call Gana a "bad" passer.
He's limited, which can cause problems when he's asked to venture into the final third or do anything more than keep it simple, but he's generally good at nailing the passes he tries. He's also much more aggressive at showing for the ball than the more technically gifted players we have in the middle (Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Gomes).
Yeah he's much better with the ball than he's given credit and he tries to go forward even if it is playing the simple pass
Post by: Hesmenos on January 08, 2019, 02:51:07 AM
Post by: MmmblueBernard on January 08, 2019, 08:25:30 PM
Post by: Thornton_19 on January 08, 2019, 08:27:44 PM
So, is Gana really a gonner?If PSG meet our price Id imagine so like.
Post by: Macca77 on January 08, 2019, 08:27:48 PM
Post by: MmmblueBernard on January 09, 2019, 12:37:02 AM
Post by: NickNack on January 09, 2019, 12:40:16 AM
Can’t see us flogging Gana without signing a replacement first eh lads. Lads???In days gone by I’d say it was highly possible but not any more. Not with Brands as our footy director...definitely not. Would he?? :o
Post by: Lxxx on January 09, 2019, 01:01:04 AM
Can’t see us flogging Gana without signing a replacement first eh lads. Lads???
Don’t see why not. Take the cash if it’s too good to turn down and work backwards from there.
Post by: Waltzer on January 09, 2019, 01:58:00 AM
Don't see why not. Take the cash if it's too good to turn down and work backwards from there.Yep, don't cut your nose off to spite your face, anything north of 30 I thinks a good deal. Shame to lose him, but he's not irreplaceable
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Post by: Martip on January 09, 2019, 02:00:08 AM
Post by: Morta75 on January 09, 2019, 02:01:12 PM
Post by: Mac934 on January 09, 2019, 06:38:23 PM
Based on this season, yes. Closing in to 30. Sell to PSG if they put £30 on the table.e £30 on the table!! Hope can squeeze a bit more than that from PSG 😂👍 maybe another £29,970 maybe.
Post by: Gash on January 09, 2019, 06:40:55 PM
e £30 on the table!! Hope can squeeze a bit more than that from PSG 😂👍 maybe another £29,970 maybe.
To be fair, I'd want a bit more than £30k as well. ;)
Post by: Morta75 on January 09, 2019, 06:57:09 PM
To be fair, I'd want a bit more than £30k as well. ;)Yes, but is it realistic... I know that if Everton had put this much money on the table for a player with pretty much no resale value I would see it as bad buisness. To be fair other clubs are thinking just like u are here towards us now that we have money... No lets get more, they have money to spend!
Post by: Shogun on January 09, 2019, 07:12:30 PM
Post by: brap2 on January 09, 2019, 07:41:13 PM
Post by: Gash on January 09, 2019, 08:06:41 PM
Yes, but is it realistic... I know that if Everton had put this much money on the table for a player with pretty much no resale value I would see it as bad buisness. To be fair other clubs are thinking just like u are here towards us now that we have money... No lets get more, they have money to spend!
More realistic than £30k? Of course it is. To be honest mate, I was just having a joke as I thought you'd meant to put £29,999,970. Anyway, never mind. :)
Post by: GLewis on January 09, 2019, 08:30:30 PM
The only worry really is how reliant we are on him. Lot of responsibility for a new player.
Presume if like for like wasn’t around we’d mould to the new balance of styles.
Post by: Cereal Killer on January 09, 2019, 09:15:36 PM
Presume if like for like wasn’t around we’dmould to the new balance of styleslose 6-2 more often
Post by: brap2 on January 09, 2019, 09:30:06 PM
Presume if like for like wasn’t around we’d mould to the new balance of styles.
Yeah I think so but either way it means a period of uncertainty coming up.
Post by: GLewis on January 09, 2019, 10:02:11 PM
Yeah I think so but either way it means a period of uncertainty coming up.
Oh yeah.
Always remains easier to sell good players than it is to buy them.
Post by: sam of the south on January 10, 2019, 12:10:12 AM
So, is Gana really a gonner?
No, I don’t think Arsenal are interested 🤔
Post by: Thomas on January 11, 2019, 01:22:30 PM
Yeah he's much better with the ball than he's given credit and he tries to go forward even if it is playing the simple passFor me he can't pass a ball and continuously gives the ball away.
I didn't like Gareth Barry and I have never liked Gana. Both got way more credit than they deserved.
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Post by: Ramjam on January 11, 2019, 01:26:33 PM
For me he can't pass a ball and continuously gives the ball away.Gareth Barry was a class act mate and there’s no denying that, Gana is limited in his passing but his breaking up opponents play is probably in the top 5 in the world game
I didn't like Gareth Barry and I have never liked Gana. Both got way more credit than they deserved.
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Post by: brap2 on January 11, 2019, 01:47:49 PM
For me he can't pass a ball and continuously gives the ball away.
I didn't like Gareth Barry and I have never liked Gana. Both got way more credit than they deserved.
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And yet you love Scott Broon? I understand your point of ‘evertonians overrate effort and underrate guile’ but your actual judgement of players under that is fucking woeful man.
Also, fun fact : since 2016/17 season, Gylfi Sigurdsson has provided 0.07 more key passes per 90 than Idrissa ‘can’t pass a ball’ Gana Gueye.
I’ve contributed to the view that Gana is limited but in the same breath, he’s underrated and at times has held this side together. I hope he goes to Paris for £35m and wins titles.
Edit : p.s Gareth Barry was better than Andre Gomes.
Post by: Macca77 on January 11, 2019, 01:57:42 PM
Post by: GLewis on January 11, 2019, 04:02:15 PM
At the end it says we’d be open to a sale in the summer as part of a midfield “revamp”.
Post by: TheRam on January 11, 2019, 04:38:12 PM
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/latest-update-idrissa-gueyes-everton-15662369
At the end it says we’d be open to a sale in the summer as part of a midfield “revamp”.
I like this.
It’s why we should just consider this season a bit of a write off
Post by: Bob Sacamano on January 11, 2019, 04:38:16 PM
Post by: Thomas on January 11, 2019, 04:40:34 PM
And yet you love Scott Broon? I understand your point of ‘evertonians overrate effort and underrate guile’ but your actual judgement of players under that is fucking woeful man.
Also, fun fact : since 2016/17 season, Gylfi Sigurdsson has provided 0.07 more key passes per 90 than Idrissa ‘can’t pass a ball’ Gana Gueye.
I’ve contributed to the view that Gana is limited but in the same breath, he’s underrated and at times has held this side together. I hope he goes to Paris for £35m and wins titles.
Edit : p.s Gareth Barry was better than Andre Gomes.
Broony as a cult hero/player who would go through a brick wall for Celtic. As a footballing talent he's made the best of his many limitations.
But when I had my season ticket last year I watched Gana continously give the ball away.
Its telling Sigurdsson who can play a bit is getting loads of shit just like Barkley/Stones did whilst Davies, Barry and Gana got all the love in the world. This is something people are starting to say on this forum too especially in the most recent TD thread.
Post by: Waltzer on January 11, 2019, 04:41:50 PM
I really liked Barry. Passing range was quite a surprise. Suppose I'd never really taken much notice of him before he arrived. Just one of those players I guess.I think he's similar to Milner, when he's one of your own you really appreciate his consistency, professionalism, leadership and dedication, but like you said a lot of what he did goes unnoticed to those outside your club.
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Post by: brap2 on January 11, 2019, 04:44:19 PM
Broony as a cult hero/player who would go through a brick wall for Celtic. As a footballing talent he's made the best of his many limitations.
But when I had my season ticket last year I watched Gana continously give the ball away.
Its telling Sigurdsson who can play a bit is getting loads of shit just like Barkley/Stones did whilst Davies, Barry and Gana got all the love in the world. This is something people are starting to say on this forum too especially in the most recent TD thread.
Every discussion is a circle with you Thomas my old mate.
Who loves Tom Davies on this forum tell me please cause all I see is people slating a 20 year old with 9 appearances this year.
Post by: Thomas on January 11, 2019, 04:49:58 PM
I really liked Barry. Passing range was quite a surprise. Suppose I'd never really taken much notice of him before he arrived. Just one of those players I guess.That's a fair point and during his career he was a great player but on the way down with us.
I liked Phil Neville but you had to respect him as he won virtually everything and was a complete winner mentality wise.
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Post by: Thomas on January 11, 2019, 04:52:55 PM
Every discussion is a circle with you Thomas my old mate.I am having to become the Everton equivalent of a Dame Barbara Cartland novel mate it's true, same story rehashed and I don't enjoy it but if it's for the good of the club...
Who loves Tom Davies on this forum tell me please cause all I see is people slating a 20 year old with 9 appearances this year.
Plenty of Gana/TD denialism in this thread, in the TD thread and generally on this forum and people giving Walcott and GS hell when football wise they are a class above Gana and Davies.
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Post by: GLewis on January 11, 2019, 05:04:42 PM
I like this.
It’s why we should just consider this season a bit of a write off
Yeah.
Also midfield has biggest scope for change.
Gueye, Sigurdsson getting on a bit. Gomes not permanent.
Davies not yet developed and a host of past it/ not under considerations.
Post by: Thomas on January 11, 2019, 05:19:52 PM
Yeah.(https://media1.tenor.com/images/4dc4057b2df36791212ac55677f86f8d/tenor.gif?itemid=5106296)
Also midfield has biggest scope for change.
Gueye, Sigurdsson getting on a bit. Gomes not permanent.
Davies not yet developed and a host of past it/ not under considerations.
Post by: blue1948 on January 11, 2019, 05:21:03 PM
Post by: Bob Sacamano on January 12, 2019, 01:13:51 AM
Of course we’d like to be able to keep the vultures at bay, but we’ve got to play the long game here.
Post by: Silas on January 12, 2019, 01:31:46 AM
Post by: Bally on January 12, 2019, 02:22:31 PM
Not having that Gueye losing the ball a lot.Because he doesn't, his passing range is not 100 % but his presence in the middle of the park is missed when he's not there, people see what they want to fit their agenda and fuck all else. Simple really, Gana would run through walls to make sure he's winning the ball, he gives his all every game but because he can't ping 40 yard passes to the forward player then he's shit.... Fucking bollocks man.
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Post by: mikey_blue on January 14, 2019, 06:51:58 AM
Post by: TheRam on January 14, 2019, 02:53:13 PM
Was happy to stay, but has had his head turned. Fair enough that like.
Get the replacement in first though. Could well be a blessing in disguise.
Post by: Lxxx on January 14, 2019, 03:14:18 PM
16 games left plus whatever the cup run brings. We can get by with what we have left if necessary, even if it means changing things around to bolster the middle of the park a bit more.
Post by: Macca77 on January 14, 2019, 03:26:47 PM
Post by: Cozzie on January 14, 2019, 03:29:24 PM
I feel more secure with Brands at the helm we will find a replacement.
Post by: Cereal Killer on January 14, 2019, 03:41:00 PM
Reports suggesting Tuchel has already spoke to him, if that's the case then it's tapping up
Doesn't apply to the big clubs remember
Post by: Escla on January 14, 2019, 03:43:45 PM
Sounds like he’s on his way according to reports in France.
Was happy to stay, but has had his head turned. Fair enough that like.
Get the replacement in first though. Could well be a blessing in disguise.
If for £30 m let him go , Mcarthy will do untill the end of the season.
Post by: brap2 on January 14, 2019, 03:50:24 PM
Post by: Brownie on January 14, 2019, 03:53:29 PM
Post by: Waltzer on January 14, 2019, 03:56:55 PM
If for £30 m let him go , Mcarthy will do untill the end of the season.
I agree in principle, theres just no evidence to suggest he'll make it to the end of the season
Post by: TheRam on January 14, 2019, 04:36:10 PM
If for £30 m let him go , Mcarthy will do untill the end of the season.
No he bloody wont.
Post by: Macca77 on January 14, 2019, 04:37:53 PM
Hahahaha
Post by: ajax_andy on January 14, 2019, 04:50:45 PM
If for £30 m let him go , Mcarthy will do untill the end of the first half of his come back game.
Post by: sam of the south on January 14, 2019, 04:58:10 PM
Post by: Ramjam on January 14, 2019, 05:01:30 PM
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Post by: Audrey Horne on January 14, 2019, 05:12:09 PM
Post by: sam of the south on January 14, 2019, 05:27:23 PM
Post by: GLewis on January 14, 2019, 05:48:24 PM
Brands won’t let him go in this window unless he’s confident that his replacement is either a younger, like for like superhuman ball winner, or a player with superior qualities in other areas
Or if the offer is too good.
Post by: sam of the south on January 14, 2019, 05:49:33 PM
Or if the offer is too good.
I wonder what we would view as too good to turn down
Post by: Waltzer on January 14, 2019, 05:50:24 PM
I get that hes under contract, but hes not and Evertonian, hes given his all for us and any of us in that position would want the same.
Post by: Dr. Sponge on January 14, 2019, 06:59:21 PM
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Post by: bigmanbob on January 14, 2019, 07:23:08 PM
Post by: eugene on January 14, 2019, 07:46:44 PM
If we sell him for £30 m, I bet my right gonad we'll have to pay more than that for his replacementOf course we will this is Everton, not in it to make money mate!
Post by: Nicco on January 14, 2019, 08:12:12 PM
Doesn't apply to the big clubs rememberTrue. But there is always FFP at least
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Post by: Gash on January 14, 2019, 08:54:42 PM
If we sell him for £30 m, I bet my right gonad we'll have to pay more than that for his replacement
If it's someone younger and as good or could turn out to be as good then it's no problem if we do.
Post by: Elgoodo1978 on January 14, 2019, 08:56:52 PM
Post by: Brownie on January 14, 2019, 09:08:31 PM
Unless Joe Parkinson has got his knee fixed, I think we'll struggle without him
😭 absolute tragedy he finished when he did. Probably my second favourite ever Everton player
Post by: eugene on January 14, 2019, 11:15:33 PM
Yes loved joe Parkinson qualityabsolute tragedy he finished when he did. Probably my second favourite ever Everton player
Post by: everton1952 on January 15, 2019, 05:15:46 PM
Post by: Cereal Killer on January 15, 2019, 05:26:55 PM
If you can't pass accurately you can't be good enough for this league. Running around, closing down, breaking up play is not much use if you give the ball back to the opposition. Championship is OK for him. He cost us little from a relegated club.
Yes, must be so useless and offer nothing that one of the richest clubs in the world wants to purchase him ::)
Post by: TheRam on January 15, 2019, 05:33:38 PM
If you can't pass accurately you can't be good enough for this league. Running around, closing down, breaking up play is not much use if you give the ball back to the opposition. Championship is OK for him. He cost us little from a relegated club.
Genuinely one of the worst posts I’ve read on here.
Post by: Brownie on January 15, 2019, 05:40:04 PM
If you can't pass accurately you can't be good enough for this league. Running around, closing down, breaking up play is not much use if you give the ball back to the opposition. Championship is OK for him. He cost us little from a relegated club.
Wow, just wow
Post by: Mac934 on January 15, 2019, 05:55:19 PM
If you can't pass accurately you can't be good enough for this league. Running around, closing down, breaking up play is not much use if you give the ball back to the opposition. Championship is OK for him. He cost us little from a relegated club.WTF? That has to be a piss take post.
Post by: everton1952 on January 15, 2019, 06:01:26 PM
Post by: Lazarou on January 15, 2019, 06:01:48 PM
If you can't pass accurately you can't be good enough for this league. Running around, closing down, breaking up play is not much use if you give the ball back to the opposition. Championship is OK for him. He cost us little from a relegated club.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/cEGwQzpKFKcUw/giphy.gif)
Post by: Thornton_19 on January 15, 2019, 06:16:48 PM
No piss take at all. Why do you lap up media rubbish about PSG etc etc. and trot it out like it was fact? Mind you if they really do want to pay the media quoted price then wow grab the money.Did you witness the Spurs game when he was missing? That should tell you all you need to know about how valuable he is to our first 11.
Your post is absolute rubbish mate.
Post by: Mac934 on January 15, 2019, 06:42:18 PM
No piss take at all. Why do you lap up media rubbish about PSG etc etc. and trot it out like it was fact? Mind you if they really do want to pay the media quoted price then wow grab the money.Where have I mentioned PSG or 'trotted' it out like fact? I just can't believe your original post. But, if that's how you see him, so be it.
Post by: sam of the south on January 15, 2019, 07:00:26 PM
Post by: Bluedylan on January 15, 2019, 07:02:03 PM
It’s all gone a bit weird
Our fanbase is weird
Post by: kramer0 on January 15, 2019, 07:16:15 PM
It's the range that's lacking.
Post by: Toddacelli on January 15, 2019, 07:19:26 PM
Because he doesn't, his passing range is not 100 % but his presence in the middle of the park is missed when he's not there, people see what they want to fit their agenda and fuck all else. Simple really, Gana would run through walls to make sure he's winning the ball, he gives his all every game but because he can't ping 40 yard passes to the forward player then he's shit.... Fucking bollocks man.
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I'm not trying to fit an agenda. It is a genuine observation from me (and my own limited interpretation of the game).
"Gana would run through walls to make sure he's winning the ball, he gives his all every game" - Agree 100%
I'd also add that we are far, far better with him than without him. And I love him at Everton and contrary to what some other posters seem to be saying - I think he will be very, very hard to replace. How people think we can pick a replacement up for £10M in a lower, European league - I have no idea.
But I do think he gives possession away a lot more than he should.
Post by: gizzblue on January 15, 2019, 07:34:59 PM
If you can't pass accurately you can't be good enough for this league. Running around, closing down, breaking up play is not much use if you give the ball back to the opposition. Championship is OK for him. He cost us little from a relegated club.
Ffs. ..
Post by: Bluedylan on January 15, 2019, 07:37:08 PM
Post by: American Evertonian on January 15, 2019, 08:01:22 PM
If we get offered £30m or above for him, I'd sell him. You're never going to get offered more than that for him, so he's peak value, and all players are replaceable.
That's fair in terms of valuation - probably will never get more for him. However, we don't have to sell to buy anymore. I think we should only sell him if we can get a player that better fits Silva's system and improve our squad as a whole. If we can't do that then we should hold onto him until we find that player.
Post by: Bluedylan on January 15, 2019, 08:06:33 PM
That's fair in terms of valuation - probably will never get more for him. However, we don't have to sell to buy anymore. I think we should only sell him if we can get a player that better fits Silva's system and improve our squad as a whole. If we can't do that then we should hold onto him until we find that player.
Yes fair point. I agree that we don't need to sell to buy. Having said that, we do have a responsibility to be a little more financially prudent than the last few seasons, if we're going to be sustainable and successful. Part of that is selling people aged 29, when you get large, profitable bids. He's a very good player with notable limitations. He's replaceable and we need to rebuild the midfield. This season is very much a transition, flux season, so it might be the right time to sell and maximise value.
I'd also put the feelers out to see if anyone wants to pay £25-30m for Gylfi, and just start the entire midfield from scratch.
Post by: brap2 on January 15, 2019, 08:14:14 PM
Still though...I’m so torn over him. Did mine eyes deceive me or was he playing as a deeper pivot in the second half? Get the ball, lose his marker and spray it or through ball to the wide men?
Post by: Bluedylan on January 15, 2019, 08:20:26 PM
I think it was fair for Silva to try to make our midfield work with the options we have, because we do have good players and it was reasonable to try it, but the balance never seems to really work properly.
So maybe it's better looking at his team like a construction job, and maybe the best move he can make it just to rip the midfield out altogether and build it as you want it, rather than trying to refine an imperfect set-up.
Post by: kramer0 on January 15, 2019, 08:36:49 PM
Definitely the way to go.
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on January 15, 2019, 08:43:38 PM
If you can't pass accurately you can't be good enough for this league. Running around, closing down, breaking up play is not much use if you give the ball back to the opposition. Championship is OK for him. He cost us little from a relegated club.
Haha he’s probably our best player. Now clubs make mistakes in the market but it would be 1 hell of a mistake for PSG to sign a player not only not good enough for them but not good enough for us or actually any premier league team.
Post by: Martip on January 15, 2019, 08:53:38 PM
If you can't pass accurately you can't be good enough for this league. Running around, closing down, breaking up play is not much use if you give the ball back to the opposition. Championship is OK for him. He cost us little from a relegated club.What the absolute fuck.
Post by: eugene on January 15, 2019, 09:10:45 PM
If we get offered £30m or above for him, I'd sell him. You're never going to get offered more than that for him, so he's peak value, and all players are replaceable.Apart from Rom by the looks of it of course
Post by: Alanvideo on January 15, 2019, 10:09:19 PM
Apart from Rom by the looks of it of course................there's a programme on Sky showing his greatest goals ,mostly for Everton. Some games he won single handed especially when he had dreadlocks it seems. Fantastic player in those days ,now seems to have gone off the boil.
Post by: D15TIN on January 15, 2019, 10:15:12 PM
................there's a programme on Sky showing his greatest goals ,mostly for Everton. Some games he won single handed especially when he had dreadlocks it seems. Fantastic player in those days ,now seems to have gone off the boil.Everton showed his goals against Bournemouth, some boss finishes in that game, 1 in the first minute aswell
Post by: American Evertonian on January 15, 2019, 10:21:36 PM
Yes fair point. I agree that we don't need to sell to buy. Having said that, we do have a responsibility to be a little more financially prudent than the last few seasons, if we're going to be sustainable and successful. Part of that is selling people aged 29, when you get large, profitable bids. He's a very good player with notable limitations. He's replaceable and we need to rebuild the midfield. This season is very much a transition, flux season, so it might be the right time to sell and maximise value.
I'd also put the feelers out to see if anyone wants to pay £25-30m for Gylfi, and just start the entire midfield from scratch.
All valid points and I agree with them. Think we need to make Gomes an Everton player and then build the midfield around him. Think Gylfi and Gana don't form a balanced midfield when combined with Gomes.
Post by: Bluedylan on January 15, 2019, 10:29:01 PM
Eventually we need to start to take a look at ourselves as a club and a fanbase, and wonder if there might be summat wrong with us. We slag our best players off for not being better than they are, we get on young players' backs, we get on managers backs very quickly.
I realise people might not like those sorts of comments, and the fact that I don't live in the city anymore, or go to the game every week undermines the points I'm making for some people. But still, taking my personal situation out of it, is it true?
Post by: blueToffee on January 15, 2019, 10:43:54 PM
Our fanbase is weird
The best shouts are player [xyz] is shit. We shouldn't be selling them for less than [insert huge fee].
Post by: Macca77 on January 15, 2019, 10:45:39 PM
The funny thing with Rom is that a lot of people spent his entire Everton career moaning at him/about him for not being better, rather than just accepting his limitations and being glad we had him, for his strengths.
Eventually we need to start to take a look at ourselves as a club and a fanbase, and wonder if there might be summat wrong with us. We slag our best players off for not being better than they are, we get on young players' backs, we get on managers backs very quickly.
I realise people might not like those sorts of comments, and the fact that I don't live in the city anymore, or go to the game every week undermines the points I'm making for some people. But still, taking my personal situation out of it, is it true?
Spot on
Post by: gizzblue on January 15, 2019, 10:47:26 PM
Our fans are a shambles at times .
Post by: van der Meyde on January 15, 2019, 10:58:45 PM
Imho ...still don't understand the Gylfi shouts ...tbh hes the most prolific midfielder by a country mile will finish on double figures again...when was the last midfielder to do this in our shirt . ..yet still getting shit weekly for not being better .He hasn't been playing as a midfielder though.
Our fans are a shambles at times .
Post by: Elgoodo1978 on January 15, 2019, 11:01:44 PM
😭 absolute tragedy he finished when he did. Probably my second favourite ever Everton player
Was gutted too mate, often wonder what could have been with us. I thought he was that good. Same for Norman Whiteside, didn't see him as much though, I was proper young then.
I Genuinely think Gana is the best we've had in that sort of position since him
Post by: kramer0 on January 15, 2019, 11:06:11 PM
Imho ...still don't understand the Gylfi shouts ...tbh hes the most prolific midfielder by a country mile will finish on double figures again...when was the last midfielder to do this in our shirt . ..yet still getting shit weekly for not being better .
Our fans are a shambles at times .
Most of that criticism is for not actually playing like a midfielder.
He spends a lot of time chasing the ball high up the pitch, doesn't show for the ball much in possession, and doesn't play many passes. All of this while our midfield is terrible and doesn't control games.
He ultimately plays more like a forward and getting into double figures (aided by penalties) is a pretty meh return for a forward. Hence, why so many of us talk about him like he's a meh player.
Post by: Silas on January 16, 2019, 12:09:16 AM
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on January 16, 2019, 12:12:00 AM
Cahill didn't play like a midfielder either. Neither did Kanchelskis, goalscorers don't as a rule
Cahill was the furthest forward of a 5 man midfield which catered for that advances midfield role.
Siggy is playing that far forward in a midfield 3 which doesn't allow for it and leaves us with 2 in the middle of the park.
I really rate Siggy but how we're playing right now doesn't suit the personnel we have and it's showing in the results.
Post by: eugene on January 16, 2019, 12:16:10 AM
Cahill didn't play like a midfielder either. Neither did Kanchelskis, goalscorers don't as a ruleDon’t forget inchy mate lovely little player
Post by: gizzblue on January 16, 2019, 12:16:18 AM
He hasn't been playing as a midfielder though.
And I for one am glad ...someone is actually getting forward scoring goals ....pretty sure that's where he's being told to play ...certainly not as an out and out forward, in fact a typical AMC ...it's not Gylfi's fault nobody else is contributing assists and goals from the further midfield .
Post by: gizzblue on January 16, 2019, 12:19:58 AM
Most of that criticism is for not actually playing like a midfielder.
He spends a lot of time chasing the ball high up the pitch, doesn't show for the ball much in possession, and doesn't play many passes. All of this while our midfield is terrible and doesn't control games.
He ultimately plays more like a forward and getting into double figures (aided by penalties) is a pretty meh return for a forward. Hence, why so many of us talk about him like he's a meh player.
For a meh (best attacking mid since fuck knows when )player we would be fucked without his contribution this year .
Also thanks for proving my earlier point . :thumbsup:
Post by: brap2 on January 16, 2019, 12:27:00 AM
For a meh (best attacking mid since fuck knows when )player we would be fucked without his contribution this year .
Also thanks for proving my earlier point . :thumbsup:
You can see the argument that having a midfielder who goalhangs is sound when he gets you 10 a year, but unfortunately leaves important gaps elsewhere, can’t you?
It’s not a case of take them 10 goals out and we’d drop positions is it, that’s what we all slagged Steve Walsh off for when he said ‘without Lukakus goals we’d be in the same place’ - it doesn’t work like that.
A team is the sum of its parts and as incredibly talented Gylfi Sigurdsson is, he apparently has to be carried tactically and that’s causing us problems.
Post by: TheRam on January 16, 2019, 12:49:02 AM
For a meh (best attacking mid since fuck knows when )player we would be fucked without his contribution this year .
Also thanks for proving my earlier point . :thumbsup:
It’s his lack of contribution elsewhere that’s hindering us though.
Post by: kramer0 on January 16, 2019, 01:04:54 AM
I know Sigurdsson works his socks off without the ball but it doesn't do much for us the way he's currently being deployed because he rarely wins anything high up the pitch. When you factor in the lack of touches, he's basically a passenger who contributes the odd great goal or through ball. He either has to play deeper where we can use his work rate to greater defensive effect or he needs to be dropped. We can't keep carrying him in his current role while opponents walk through our midfield and create numerical advantages against our back line every week.
Also, six open play goals really isn't that hard to replace. I bet Lookman would get that many given 1800 minutes.
Post by: brap2 on January 16, 2019, 01:10:33 AM
Post by: gizzblue on January 16, 2019, 01:27:41 AM
It’s his lack of contribution elsewhere that’s hindering us though.
So how exactly is he hindering us....would Davies get anywhere near him for output ?...if not who else .
I'm not saying he is a world beater by any means but he is all we have in that mould and a double figure output (by the end of the season)albeit with 2pens will be better than we had for years from the midfield .
Post by: kramer0 on January 16, 2019, 01:49:50 AM
Obviously, there's no way Davies would score as much as Sigurdsson. But here are some things he can help with:
- Preventing the opposition from cutting through us at will. Davies is useful defensively and with a better defense, we don't need to score as much to win.
- Providing our defenders and midfielders with another option in possession so that opponents can't take Gomes out of the game and put all of the heavy lifting on Gana, the CBs, and the fullbacks (like they have been since December). Davies is one of the best in the squad at moving without the ball and making himself available to his teammates.
- Forcing the team to play a little deeper, giving the front three more space to work. Imagine how much more effective the likes of Richarlison, Bernard, Lookman, and Walcott would be if they weren't facing packed defenses all the time. Here's where you recover those "lost" goals.
Nobody can say for sure if all of those things would happen but it would be a worthwhile experiment, at least.
Silva's spent the last month tinkering around the midfield -- mixing up the attack, mixing up the defense, adding a defender, subtracting that defender, mixing up the attack again. It's time for him to try something to get a grip in the middle of the park.
Post by: Jamokachi on January 16, 2019, 02:21:00 AM
Our fanbase is weird
Nowt as queer as folk.
Post by: plumber on January 16, 2019, 02:35:57 AM
Post by: Jamokachi on January 16, 2019, 02:37:48 AM
Our fanbase is the same as other fanbases.
Apart from starved of success, which does breed narks.
Post by: Alanvideo on January 16, 2019, 02:39:06 AM
Our fanbase is the same as other fanbases...................with one exception :evil:
Post by: cantoffee on January 16, 2019, 03:14:42 AM
Cahill isn't even a fair comparison because he won headers and harassed defenders in a way that actually earned the team possession in final third.Agreed re: closing down.
I know Sigurdsson works his socks off without the ball but it doesn't do much for us the way he's currently being deployed because he rarely wins anything high up the pitch. When you factor in the lack of touches, he's basically a passenger who contributes the odd great goal or through ball. He either has to play deeper where we can use his work rate to greater defensive effect or he needs to be dropped. We can't keep carrying him in his current role while opponents walk through our midfield and create numerical advantages against our back line every week.
Also, six open play goals really isn't that hard to replace. I bet Lookman would get that many given 1800 minutes.
Would argue that Cahill's link up play and combinations are far superior to Sig's as well.
Sigurdsson's biggest asset is that he can score from anywhere within 30 yards basically consistently as anyone. This means he must be closed down and opens teams up a bit.
However, he is really not good enough at moving towards the ball and providing quick link up with the midfield get us further forward and create angles that allow for through balls.
Cahill, for all his limitations moved to the ball and played it on quickly. He had a good understanding of where his teammates where/where going and got them involved.
Perhaps being a limited player meant that he knew he had to bring the ball in and keep it moving.
We certainly lack midfield presence and are lucky that Gana covers so much ground. Think Silva will need to rework the midfield this summer to improve the balance.
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Post by: gizzblue on January 16, 2019, 04:59:37 PM
Football doesn't work like that, adding and subtracting goals scored by individual players. Individual stats help us learn about players but success is still contextual.
Obviously, there's no way Davies would score as much as Sigurdsson. But here are some things he can help with:
- Preventing the opposition from cutting through us at will. Davies is useful defensively and with a better defense, we don't need to score as much to win.
- Providing our defenders and midfielders with another option in possession so that opponents can't take Gomes out of the game and put all of the heavy lifting on Gana, the CBs, and the fullbacks (like they have been since December). Davies is one of the best in the squad at moving without the ball and making himself available to his teammates.
- Forcing the team to play a little deeper, giving the front three more space to work. Imagine how much more effective the likes of Richarlison, Bernard, Lookman, and Walcott would be if they weren't facing packed defenses all the time. Here's where you recover those "lost" goals.
Nobody can say for sure if all of those things would happen but it would be a worthwhile experiment, at least.
Silva's spent the last month tinkering around the midfield -- mixing up the attack, mixing up the defense, adding a defender, subtracting that defender, mixing up the attack again. It's time for him to try something to get a grip in the middle of the park.
Your basing this on a player who ,when he has played this year has failed to nail a place down in the squad on a regular basis or even do half the things your asking for .....he was dubbed against Lincoln at half time because we were being over run by a league two side .
I agree with your premis just don't agree that Davies is the player to carry that forward in the slightest .
Post by: gizzblue on January 16, 2019, 05:02:12 PM
Football doesn't work like that, adding and subtracting goals scored by individual players. Individual stats help us learn about players but success is still contextual.
Obviously, there's no way Davies would score as much as Sigurdsson. But here are some things he can help with:
- Preventing the opposition from cutting through us at will. Davies is useful defensively and with a better defense, we don't need to score as much to win.
- Providing our defenders and midfielders with another option in possession so that opponents can't take Gomes out of the game and put all of the heavy lifting on Gana, the CBs, and the fullbacks (like they have been since December). Davies is one of the best in the squad at moving without the ball and making himself available to his teammates.
- Forcing the team to play a little deeper, giving the front three more space to work. Imagine how much more effective the likes of Richarlison, Bernard, Lookman, and Walcott would be if they weren't facing packed defenses all the time. Here's where you recover those "lost" goals.
Nobody can say for sure if all of those things would happen but it would be a worthwhile experiment, at least.
Silva's spent the last month tinkering around the midfield -- mixing up the attack, mixing up the defense, adding a defender, subtracting that defender, mixing up the attack again. It's time for him to try something to get a grip in the middle of the park.
Your basing this on a player who ,when he has played this year has failed to nail a place down in the squad on a regular basis or even do half the things your asking for .....he was dubbed against Lincoln at half time because we were being over run by a league two side .
I agree with your premis in theory just don't agree that Davies is the player to carry that forward in the slightest had done nothing in the past season and a half to say he could in the future either ....loads calling for him to be loaned ,which I don't agree with either, but only as we have no one else .
Post by: Macca77 on January 16, 2019, 05:07:30 PM
Post by: sam of the south on January 16, 2019, 05:12:23 PM
Football doesn't work like that, adding and subtracting goals scored by individual players. Individual stats help us learn about players but success is still contextual.
Obviously, there's no way Davies would score as much as Sigurdsson. But here are some things he can help with:
- Preventing the opposition from cutting through us at will. Davies is useful defensively and with a better defense, we don't need to score as much to win.
- Providing our defenders and midfielders with another option in possession so that opponents can't take Gomes out of the game and put all of the heavy lifting on Gana, the CBs, and the fullbacks (like they have been since December). Davies is one of the best in the squad at moving without the ball and making himself available to his teammates.
- Forcing the team to play a little deeper, giving the front three more space to work. Imagine how much more effective the likes of Richarlison, Bernard, Lookman, and Walcott would be if they weren't facing packed defenses all the time. Here's where you recover those "lost" goals.
Nobody can say for sure if all of those things would happen but it would be a worthwhile experiment, at least.
Silva's spent the last month tinkering around the midfield -- mixing up the attack, mixing up the defense, adding a defender, subtracting that defender, mixing up the attack again. It's time for him to try something to get a grip in the middle of the park.
Koeman thought it worked that way.
“Productchivitee”
Post by: everton1952 on January 16, 2019, 10:54:58 PM
Post by: plumber on January 16, 2019, 11:00:58 PM
I don't think anyone is saying Gana is crap at all. Maybe if our team was blessed with a wonderful midfield with attacking players who can score goals, then a "water carrier" like him, even one who often passes to the opposition, would be fine. Obviously he can't be sold without a decent replacement. Some people are intolerant of opinions different from their own.
He doesn't often passes to opposition and it's not opinion, it's a fact.
Post by: everton1952 on January 16, 2019, 11:10:00 PM
Post by: Cereal Killer on January 16, 2019, 11:23:01 PM
I don't think anyone is saying Gana is crap at all
If you can't pass accurately you can't be good enough for this league. Running around, closing down, breaking up play is not much use if you give the ball back to the opposition. Championship is OK for him. He cost us little from a relegated club.
Are you two separate people on the same account?! ???
Post by: Macca77 on January 16, 2019, 11:28:01 PM
Post by: everton1952 on January 16, 2019, 11:48:26 PM
Are you two separate people on the same account?! ???No. I am trying to track back from a get rid mentality just because he annoys me so much with his bad passing. In our last game he passed straight to a Bournemouth player about 10 yards away. The reality is he would be fine if he had top players around him, and his limitations would be less problematic. If it was true that a monster bid was coming in. then it would be good business to sell as long as a better replacement can be found.
Post by: plumber on January 16, 2019, 11:51:47 PM
Don't be silly. It is not "fact" it is merely your opinion. You are perfectly entitled to hold that opinion too.
His passing accuracy is 86% this season. It's a fact. Or in your opinion it's 38?
Post by: Toddacelli on January 17, 2019, 02:01:20 PM
Davies is one of the best in the squad at moving without the ball and making himself available to his teammates.
This - all day long.
Post by: BlueNoseMike on January 17, 2019, 02:09:54 PM
It's not necessarily that he's passing is inaccurate in terms of giving the ball away. For me his passing isn't quite spot on.
Quite often a player will have check his run because ganas pass was slightly behind. Also the passes aren't crisp enough. I think it's a reason we all jizzed at gomes first few games. His passing was quick and crisp and super accurate.
You see the top 3 at the moment and every pass is spot on. Bang exactly where they want it to be. And super fast. Gana is not a great passer of the ball lads. Despite What the stats say. He's not the only one btw. And he makes up for it woth his other attributes. But the top midfielders for the top sides are several brackets above gana for passing.
And because they are they keep the ball better and don't necessarily need someone with ganas qualities defensively.
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on January 17, 2019, 05:22:52 PM