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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: boothill on January 05, 2019, 04:39:43 AM

Title: Real after Pickford
Post by: boothill on January 05, 2019, 04:39:43 AM
Apparently its in marca,  that real madrid have gone after pickford?

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Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 04:41:00 AM
Apparently its in marca,  that real madrid have gone after pickford?

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If its a decent offer sell him.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: kramer0 on January 05, 2019, 04:46:18 AM
The same Real Madrid that just bought Courtois?

Zero chance.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Waltzer on January 05, 2019, 04:49:37 AM
The same Real Madrid that just bought Courtois?

Zero chance.
Hasn't he been pretty poor since going there?

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Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Mayor Farnum on January 05, 2019, 04:52:56 AM
Apparently its in marca,  that real madrid have gone after pickford?

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Pickford's already had the best move of his career.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: boothill on January 05, 2019, 04:55:56 AM
Just been on the radio then,  50million they said, i dont know if its true,  id take it though

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Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 04:57:28 AM
Just been on the radio then,  50million they said, i dont know if its true,  id take it though

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If they would pay 50m we should bite their hands off and pay for the easyjet flight.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: boothill on January 05, 2019, 04:57:54 AM
Hasn't he been pretty poor since going there?

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Ive read real fans absolutely despise him because he was at atleti

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Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Silas on January 05, 2019, 05:01:09 AM
You lot are fucking nuts if you think selling Pickford is in any way a good idea.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 05:02:34 AM
You lot are fucking nuts if you think selling Pickford is in any way a good idea.
For 50m ? That would make him the 2nd most expensive ever wouldn't it ? He's nowhere near that quality.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Silas on January 05, 2019, 05:04:43 AM
For 50m ? That would make him the 2nd most expensive ever wouldn't it ? He's nowhere near that quality.

Do we particularly need 50 million? We do need a keeper and trying to replace him just isn't worth the cash. It's a fucking stupid idea.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Brownie on January 05, 2019, 05:13:41 AM
Nevas just signed a new contract to hadnt he?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Makis on January 05, 2019, 05:24:29 AM
And who could we buy for 50 million who would be better and with sell-on value?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 05:25:07 AM
Do we particularly need 50 million? We do need a keeper and trying to replace him just isn't worth the cash. It's a fucking stupid idea.
50m is almost that ndombele money so yeah if that's the sort of player we spent it on ! He for example would a much bigger upgrade than pickford would be a loss imo.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Cereal Killer on January 05, 2019, 05:29:12 AM
50m is almost that ndombele money so yeah if that's the sort of player we spent it on ! He for example would a much bigger upgrade than pickford would be a loss imo.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Colin-Farrell-Shrug-In-Bruges.gif)
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: TheRam on January 05, 2019, 05:35:56 AM
50m is almost that ndombele money so yeah if that's the sort of player we spent it on ! He for example would a much bigger upgrade than pickford would be a loss imo.

Be mad if we replaced Pickford with ndombele like.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Goaljira on January 05, 2019, 05:45:34 AM
50m is almost that ndombele money so yeah if that's the sort of player we spent it on ! He for example would a much bigger upgrade than pickford would be a loss imo.

Replace our only goalie who isn't an absolute bag of shit with a midfielder?  Are you planning on putting Jags in goals?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on January 05, 2019, 05:46:29 AM
For 50m ? That would make him the 2nd most expensive ever wouldn't it ? He's nowhere near that quality.

Hope it wouldn't both the shite's keeper and chelski keeper were both well over that price .
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 05:49:48 AM
Replace our only goalie who isn't an absolute bag of shit with a midfielder?  Are you planning on putting Jags in goals?
Nah get someone in on the cheap....someone like Utds no 2 Romero. We d hardly notice a difference in goalkeeping quality but would with the extra quality in midfield.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 05:51:05 AM
Hope it wouldn't both the shite's keeper and chelski keeper were both well over that price .
Sorry 3rd then.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Goaljira on January 05, 2019, 05:53:08 AM
Hardly notice a difference in quality between 2 players one who's being linked with 1 of the top 2 club s in the world for 50m and one un-named player valued at peanuts?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on January 05, 2019, 05:59:13 AM
Talk about the small time mentality staying with some fans ....it's not about money anymore ....the sell to buy days are over lads......

If Ndombele was available and we wanted him ...moshi would stump up the cash ....without selling Pickford (who's still only young and only improving ) don't see why some want him out already ... ffs has saved our arses way more than the two points he cost us v the shite .
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 05:59:58 AM
Hardly notice a difference in quality between 2 players one who's being linked with 1 of the top 2 club s in the world for 50m and one un-named player valued at peanuts?
The unnamed player who has 100 odd caps for Argentina? I honestly don't think we d notice much difference game to game....pickford fucks up.more than he saves us.

I know a lot of you guys like pickford and fair dos but he's vastly overated imo.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 06:03:25 AM
Talk about the small time mentality staying with some fans ....it's not about money anymore ....the sell to buy days are over lads......

If Ndombele was available and we wanted him ...moshi would stump up the cash ....without selling Pickford (who's still only young and only improving ) don't see why some want him out already ... ffs has saved out arses way more than the two points he cost us v the shite .
we don't have an endless supply of money though and we need to be realistic. Like any business if someone offers more for one of our assets than it's worth to us then we djouldcsell surely.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on January 05, 2019, 06:07:01 AM
we don't have an endless supply of money though and we need to be realistic. Like any business if someone offers more for one of our assets than it's worth to us then we djouldcsell surely.

Thankfully you don't get to chose who goes and stays  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 06:08:29 AM
Thankfully you don't get to chose who goes and stays  :thumbsup:
Couldn't have done any worse than the previous decision makers  nod
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Fynci on January 05, 2019, 06:09:38 AM
Comedic last page. Pickford for Romero is comedy gold.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 06:10:37 AM
Comedic last page. Pickford for Romero is comedy gold.
You forgot to add the context but hey ho
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Mayor Farnum on January 05, 2019, 06:17:17 AM
Talk about the small time mentality staying with some fans ....it's not about money anymore ....the sell to buy days are over lads......

If Ndombele was available and we wanted him ...moshi would stump up the cash ....without selling Pickford (who's still only young and only improving ) don't see why some want him out already ... ffs has saved our arses way more than the two points he cost us v the shite .

Not entirely about money but it will always be a consideration. However, maybe it's a chance to move on a player that's maybe not a reliable as was first thought; who plays in a position that is almost exclusively about reliability.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Goaljira on January 05, 2019, 06:20:21 AM
The unnamed player who has 100 odd caps for Argentina? I honestly don't think we d notice much difference game to game....pickford fucks up.more than he saves us.

I know a lot of you guys like pickford and fair dos but he's vastly overated imo.

I'm not completely convinced by Pickford, but I wouldn't consider selling him whilst planning on replacing him with someone on the cheap.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 06:22:45 AM
I'm not completely convinced by Pickford, but I wouldn't consider selling him whilst planning on replacing him with someone on the cheap.
Even if it meant a shot at let's say a world class midfielder or striker who would benefit the team more ?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Bob Sacamano on January 05, 2019, 06:29:25 AM
I'm not completely convinced by Pickford, but I wouldn't consider selling him whilst planning on replacing him with someone on the cheap.

Expect to see about 400 posts about how he pushes shots into danger zones.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 06:36:42 AM
Expect to see about 400 posts about how he pushes shots into danger zones.
it's not about that though is it. Realistically jordan isn't in our top 3 most important players and if someone would pay over to the odds meaning we can invest elsewhere it makes business sense...
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Bob Sacamano on January 05, 2019, 06:37:56 AM
it's not about that though is it. Realistically jordan isn't in our top 3 most important players and if someone would pay over to the odds meaning we can invest elsewhere it makes business sense...

We will never agree on this so you may as well save yourself some stress tbh mate.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: GLewis on January 05, 2019, 02:21:23 PM
it's not about that though is it. Realistically jordan isn't in our top 3 most important players and if someone would pay over to the odds meaning we can invest elsewhere it makes business sense...

But I think it would mean we should be looking to replace him with a top class player, who would probably be very expensive.

Overall premise though yes, we should always be assessing player worth (to the team and monetarily) and if we receive an offer in excess of those then we should reinvest that to improve.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: BlueForYou on January 05, 2019, 02:59:20 PM
Our Number 1 position is solved for the next five seasons, at least - not for sale and 50m is under the odds 

Numbers 2 - 11, work in progress and will consider all bids



Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Gash on January 05, 2019, 03:13:04 PM
Nah get someone in on the cheap....someone like Utds no 2 Romero. We d hardly notice a difference in goalkeeping quality but would with the extra quality in midfield.

So replace a decent, 24 year old keeper with plenty time to improve with 31 year old keeper who's barely played 25 games in three season (12 of those were in United's 16/17 Europa League campaign) on the off chance that we can attract a world class midfielder or striker, we might as well have kept the mediocre Robles if we want to go cheap on a goal keeper. And given that we're probably going to finish between 7th and 10th we're not going to get a world class midfielder or striker in anyway and then people would just moan if we blew the Pickford money on more Sigurdsson type signings.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Audrey Horne on January 05, 2019, 03:54:03 PM
Fucking awful in here
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 04:28:56 PM
Our Number 1 position is solved for the next five seasons, at least - not for sale and 50m is under the odds 

Numbers 2 - 11, work in progress and will consider all bids
That doesn't make sense to me and id say that pickford is still a work in progress.  If someone is prepared to pay full up money we should consider it.

I think the telling thing for me is that pretty much everyone whether they like pickford or not has reservations about him which is not how you should feel about a top class goalkeeper.

For me he is not great at anything- he's a decent prem league shot stopper but pushes the ball into the danger area, he doesn't command the box as well as he could, he creates anything but calm, he's erratic and often gets beaten from areas you think he shouldn't.

Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: blue1948 on January 05, 2019, 04:56:54 PM
50m is almost that ndombele money so yeah if that's the sort of player we spent it on ! He for example would a much bigger upgrade than pickford would be a loss imo.
But you would still need a goalie you plant pot.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 05, 2019, 05:03:27 PM
So basically
We replace Pickford with some bloke from man u, despite everyone moaning about signing man u rejects and then we go out with said money and try to buy someone who is linked with numerous cl clubs an probably wouldn't sign?

It's a no for me
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on January 05, 2019, 05:04:20 PM
Couldn't have done any worse than the previous decision makers  nod

Swapping a young up and coming keeper for a midfielder and a retiree keeper is a good start to be up there with the Walters and Martinez types,  don't sell yourself short .
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: blue1948 on January 05, 2019, 05:06:03 PM
Imagine Brands interviewing the "world class" midfielder ,
BRANDS
yes we are on the up and it is great club trying hard to get to the next level.We are a family club who look after the ex players and the community
PLAYER
Yes but you have just sold the current England no.1 and shipped in a reserve goalie!! Seems the place for me!!!
BRANDS
Well @Martip (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=6665) said it was good idea .
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Bob Sacamano on January 05, 2019, 05:22:15 PM
So basically
We replace Pickford with some bloke from man u, despite everyone moaning about signing man u rejects and then we go out with said money and try to buy someone who is linked with numerous cl clubs an probably wouldn't sign?

It's a no for me

It stinks of zero ambition.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: BlueForYou on January 05, 2019, 05:24:38 PM
Real Madrid after Pickford? That's because he's the real deal

Pickford is still work in progress and that's the point: top class work in progress and worth more than 50m

Not for sale
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Audrey Horne on January 05, 2019, 05:25:38 PM


For me he is not great at anything- he's a decent prem league shot stopper but pushes the ball into the danger area, he doesn't command the box as well as he could, he creates anything but calm, he's erratic and often gets beaten from areas you think he shouldn't.



so why are Real wanting him then ?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Gash on January 05, 2019, 05:26:08 PM
That doesn't make sense to me and id say that pickford is still a work in progress.  If someone is prepared to pay full up money we should consider it.

I think the telling thing for me is that pretty much everyone whether they like pickford or not has reservations about him which is not how you should feel about a top class goalkeeper.

For me he is not great at anything- he's a decent prem league shot stopper but pushes the ball into the danger area, he doesn't command the box as well as he could, he creates anything but calm, he's erratic and often gets beaten from areas you think he shouldn't.

What doesn't make sense is you always being the first to have a go at Pickford yet you want to 'go on the cheap' with a goalkeeper, one of the most important positions in the team. Goalkeeper is one of lowest priorities in the squad at the moment, even if we did get a big offer for him. There far more players needing cleared out before we worry about Pickford.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 05:58:03 PM
so why are Real wanting him then ?
Potentially off the back of a few good world cup games in a similar way to which we were attracted to mina. You know I was not convinced in him last season and I must admit I'd hoped he'd gone up a level after the England games but he hasn't from what I'm seeing.

Honestly I take everyone's points on board but in my heart just don't see he's that good and even his most ardent fans must surely must admit they have their doubts ?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: TheRam on January 05, 2019, 06:08:17 PM
Im not convinced with Pickford myself.

Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Brownie on January 05, 2019, 06:09:42 PM
Potentially off the back of a few good world cup games in a similar way to which we were attracted to mina. You know I was not convinced in him last season and I must admit I'd hoped he'd gone up a level after the England games but he hasn't from what I'm seeing.

Honestly I take everyone's points on board but in my heart just don't see he's that good and even his most ardent fans must surely must admit they have their doubts ?

If you did a bit of research you will know that Mina was on our radar befor3vthe WC - theres an interview with Brands about it. Also, I doubt a club of Reals stature just go on a few WC games.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Mayor Farnum on January 05, 2019, 06:10:36 PM
so why are Real wanting him then ?

To be fair they're probably not.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: TheRam on January 05, 2019, 06:11:42 PM
Oh and Real Madrid are totally the type of club to throw 50mil around without any thought.

Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Ell Capitan on January 05, 2019, 06:33:36 PM
Pickford is a good keeper. Particularly in the context of the last few years of Howard in decline/Robles/Stek.

I don't think anyone here thinks he is world class. There's obviously better keepers out there. I don't think he'll ever be world class to be honest, if for no other reason than he's a bit too short and unable to compensate for that with reach.

That said though, it's not a position that's a priority for me to improve.

Of course though if we have the opportunity to improve our number 1 (or any other position) we should always look at it.

But let's do that by identifying a target, going after him, then selling Pickford as and when necessary.

Not just by saying yes to the first person that comes waving a big cheque and then hoping we're able to quickly find a suitable replacement.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 05, 2019, 06:52:02 PM
If it was 50m for Pickford with a better replacement lined up then sound, we should always strive to improve, even if its just better potential. But to spend on a worse player and try to convince someone we are going places it's a no
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: gizzblue on January 05, 2019, 07:02:39 PM
If the shite bought Alisson after putting five past him last year ....can't we give Burnley 100 mill for their keeper just to one up them. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: TheTone on January 05, 2019, 07:08:26 PM
I still havnt got over that Derby fuck up, he makes me nervous, lashing balls out of play and the quick kick outs to noone do my head in too, jury is out for me

Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Gash on January 05, 2019, 07:17:55 PM
Im not convinced with Pickford myself.



He's had two high profile mistakes in quick succession that are still fresh in the mind. I said at the time I think he'll always have that where he'll make a rash decision or a glaring fuck up but what keeper doesn't. Generally when keepers fuck up it leads to a goal, the difference is when Pickford does it we all remember especially in a game like Liverpool because he's our keeper. Look at most of the other top keepers in the league, they've all had fuck ups this season. Loris has had two or three, De Gea came in for a lot of criticism earlier in the season, Alisson's had a couple as had Ederson, they've been lucky enough that usually the team are good enough to recover but in reality Pickford probably doesn't make many more mistakes than any other keeper.

He's a good keeper and better than we've had for a long time and still has plenty time to improve. We talk about buying fairly young, pre peak players yet we have a 24 year old keeper here who after couple of mistakes is having every part of his game analysed. There is doubts but mainly for me the doubt is whether he can ever be up there with the best or just be a really good keeper.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Crackling on January 05, 2019, 07:20:14 PM
If the shite bought Alisson after putting five past him last year ....can't we give Burnley 100 mill for their keeper just to one up them.
This is almost like an invitation to compare Pickford and Joe Hart...
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: ajax_andy on January 05, 2019, 07:21:47 PM
I always see people who've never played keeper pointing out stuff like the 'pushes it in to danger areas' and using it as a stick to bear him with... And at least 75% of the time they have no idea what they're talking about.

Pickford has made a few errors this season yes, but he's still learning and is imo a fantastic keeper who just needs a couple more seasons to iron out those ceases.  What's this? His 3rd season as a first team starter? That's nothing for a keeper.

Selling for 50m and replacing with a Man U reserve is the talk of a lunatic
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Tinga on January 05, 2019, 07:23:07 PM
I'd want much more than 50m for Englands number 1
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on January 05, 2019, 07:32:00 PM
Massively overrated player but then weve got a few. Didnt think he was all that good last season and hes a lot worse this 1. Brilliant in the World Cup though so hopefully thats a sign of his potential.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Jimmywhack on January 05, 2019, 07:34:56 PM
Massively overrated player but then we've got a few. Didn't think he was all that good last season and he's a lot worse this 1. Brilliant in the World Cup though so hopefully that's a sign of his potential.
Well I'm shocked for one that you don't rate  an Everton player
For that reason alone I want us to keep him
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 05, 2019, 08:02:33 PM
I'd want much more than 50m for Englands number 1
Being England's no 1 atm isn't necessarily a reflection on how good Pickford it's more about how average the other options are. For example, I'd take a pre injury Butland over Pickford any day of the week and he was nothing special.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: brap2 on January 05, 2019, 08:29:01 PM
According to @footballfactman on twitter hes about 16th in the shot stopper rankings this year.

https://twitter.com/footballfactman/status/1078611243718582272?s=21
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Elgoodo1978 on January 05, 2019, 08:38:02 PM
The same Real Madrid that just bought Courtois?

Zero chance.

Swap!?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on January 06, 2019, 04:49:32 AM
According to @footballfactman on twitter he's about 16th in the shot stopper rankings this year.

https://twitter.com/footballfactman/status/1078611243718582272?s=21

Huge lack of context here though. This is only relevant when the type of shots/chances afforded to the opposition are taken into account.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: brap2 on January 06, 2019, 05:16:41 AM
Huge lack of context here though. This is only relevant when the type of shots/chances afforded to the opposition are taken into account.


What kind of thing would you like taken into account?

I imagine it doesnt take into account things like minute of the 90 or game state but I cant see how that makes a functional difference.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: School of Science on January 06, 2019, 05:57:11 AM
My opinion should have been off his line coming for that cross today, both centre backs were struggling running back to goal, in the end the ball was far too close to the goal for him not to come for it. Don't think he commands his goal enough when it comes to crosses.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Ross on January 06, 2019, 07:09:48 AM
I was a big advocate for him before we got him, and hes done okay so far. But if we could turn a 28m player into 50m in 18 months and get at least his equivalent Id be okay.

After all what else is Brands here for if not for this diet of thing?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: di_guyo on January 06, 2019, 09:32:25 AM
Lol we've gone from "100m or fuck off" to "bite their hands off for 50m" in a couple months. Either we were overreacting because of good form, or bow overreacting because of poor/average form, either way, chill the fuck out. Who we realistically going to get thats better? We know he's got quality, just get behind him...shouldn't be entertaining this.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: stirlingblue on January 06, 2019, 05:10:20 PM
The concern for me is that we talk about Pickford so often.

In my mind a reliable keeper is one that doesnt get talked about, it stresses me out having a nutcase like Pickford in goal, even though he is clearly talented.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Lxxx on January 06, 2019, 05:15:26 PM
The concern for me is that we talk about Pickford so often.

In my mind a reliable keeper is one that doesnt get talked about, it stresses me out having a nutcase like Pickford in goal, even though he is clearly talented.

Just have to hope a lot of it is down to immaturity, both in the position and as a young man. Hopefully the noise will die down and well just get left with the talent.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: ajax_andy on January 06, 2019, 07:27:54 PM
My opinion should have been off his line coming for that cross today, both centre backs were struggling running back to goal, in the end the ball was far too close to the goal for him not to come for it. Don't think he commands his goal enough when it comes to crosses.

Nope, cross is too deep... He comes for that there's half a dozen heads it could flick off and leave him in no man's land.

The fact he saved the first header actually imo backs up his decision as he's in the right place positionally to keep it out.  What happens after that is left up to chance, but coming for it would have quite easily ended with the ball in the net off several heads.

This is the issue with people's view on him on here, it's like every goal now it's 'could he have done better', when most have no idea about the art of goal keeping.  So now even if it's a slight doubt about something it becomes this self perpetuating issue that everyone suddenly thinks is right.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Nicco on January 06, 2019, 10:17:30 PM
Nope, cross is too deep... He comes for that there's half a dozen heads it could flick off and leave him in no man's land.

The fact he saved the first header actually imo backs up his decision as he's in the right place positionally to keep it out.  What happens after that is left up to chance, but coming for it would have quite easily ended with the ball in the net off several heads.

This is the issue with people's view on him on here, it's like every goal now it's 'could he have done better', when most have no idea about the art of goal keeping.  So now even if it's a slight doubt about something it becomes this self perpetuating issue that everyone suddenly thinks is right.
Amen

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Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Escla on January 06, 2019, 10:19:48 PM
Nope, cross is too deep... He comes for that there's half a dozen heads it could flick off and leave him in no man's land.

The fact he saved the first header actually imo backs up his decision as he's in the right place positionally to keep it out.  What happens after that is left up to chance, but coming for it would have quite easily ended with the ball in the net off several heads.

This is the issue with people's view on him on here, it's like every goal now it's 'could he have done better', when most have no idea about the art of goal keeping.  So now even if it's a slight doubt about something it becomes this self perpetuating issue that everyone suddenly thinks is right.

Nail on the head !
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Mouse on January 06, 2019, 11:45:46 PM
Yep, actually thought it was a very good save and then it's in the lap of the gods for the rebound
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: MarcusFenix on January 07, 2019, 01:58:36 AM
This is the issue with people's view on him on here, it's like every goal now it's 'could he have done better', when most have no idea about the art of goal keeping.  So now even if it's a slight doubt about something it becomes this self perpetuating issue that everyone suddenly thinks is right.

Kind of along these lines with Pickford and others in the squad, but what bothers me a little bit is the support for our players from us in comparison to the support them lot across the park give.

No matter how good a player is for us there is an element of 'he's shite' from sections of our support whether it be Sigurdsson, Pickford, Tosun, Walcott, Keane etc.....whereas with them all their players are 'world class' ie Henderson, Lovren, Trent Alexander Arnold etc....

Ffs think back to the heady days of Barlow, Madar, Spencer, Tiler
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on January 07, 2019, 02:19:53 AM
I feel like he is one of a number of people who's confidence is now rock bottom after the Liverpool result, and he's been hesitant as a result.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Martip on January 07, 2019, 02:48:42 AM
Kind of along these lines with Pickford and others in the squad, but what bothers me a little bit is the support for our players from us in comparison to the support them lot across the park give.

No matter how good a player is for us there is an element of 'he's shite' from sections of our support whether it be Sigurdsson, Pickford, Tosun, Walcott, Keane etc.....whereas with them all their players are 'world class' ie Henderson, Lovren, Trent Alexander Arnold etc....

Ffs think back to the heady days of Barlow, Madar, Spencer, Tiler
I get what you are Saying but they proper go in on their players too. For example, Henderson is actually public enemy number one for them and not at all popular these days.

It also helps that theyve  been doing rather well When we 've been sinking meaning you'd assume they d have less to moan about.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: sam of the south on January 07, 2019, 02:55:33 AM
I get what you are Saying but they proper go in on their players too. For example, Henderson is actually public enemy number one for them and not at all popular these days.

It also helps that theyve  been doing rather well When we 've been sinking meaning you'd assume they d have less to moan about.

I think a few of them on Twatter were wishing cancer on Lovren the other night
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on January 07, 2019, 03:02:24 AM
I think regardless of what you think of our players ability and potential wed have to admit that almost all of them have performed under what we hoped and expected this season.

Shite is obviously hyperbolt but almost all have disappointed. Digne, zouma and Richarlison maybe being the only 3 whove exceeded expectations. Its all round disappointing
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on January 07, 2019, 08:10:30 AM


What kind of thing would you like taken into account?

I imagine it doesn't take into account things like minute of the 90 or game state but I can't see how that makes a functional difference.


 More the quality of the shot opportunity afforded the opposition. I imagine its incredibly hard to asses but put it this way; If 2 keepers face 100 shots each but keeper As shots are all from 5 yards wilts keeper Bs are from 20 then the stats are going to be skewed because of the relative ease of scoring from 5 yards as opposed to 20.

Ya get me, blud?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: GLewis on January 07, 2019, 12:48:28 PM

 More the quality of the shot opportunity afforded the opposition. I imagine its incredibly hard to asses but put it this way; If 2 keepers face 100 shots each but keeper As shots are all from 5 yards wilts keeper Bs are from 20 then the stats are going to be skewed because of the relative ease of scoring from 5 yards as opposed to 20.

Ya get me, blud?

Think that table is based on that sort of thing.

Hes let in two more goals than he should have done.

Whereas Alisson has let in 7 fewer (eg saving Gomes header, Id imagine).
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: TheRam on January 07, 2019, 01:55:02 PM

 More the quality of the shot opportunity afforded the opposition. I imagine its incredibly hard to asses but put it this way; If 2 keepers face 100 shots each but keeper As shots are all from 5 yards wilts keeper Bs are from 20 then the stats are going to be skewed because of the relative ease of scoring from 5 yards as opposed to 20.

Ya get me, blud?

Would you have an issue with the data if Pickford was higher up the table?
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: brap2 on January 07, 2019, 01:57:38 PM

 More the quality of the shot opportunity afforded the opposition. I imagine its incredibly hard to asses but put it this way; If 2 keepers face 100 shots each but keeper As shots are all from 5 yards wilts keeper Bs are from 20 then the stats are going to be skewed because of the relative ease of scoring from 5 yards as opposed to 20.

Ya get me, blud?

I do get you, but that is exactly the sort of thing that xg measures.

Some of these models will even go down to post-shot even - level of pressure on the ball, right or wrong foot, etc.

However, this model is purely distance / angle, so its not just a case of a shot on target = a goal he should have conceded, it is a metric for shots that would usually be saved over the course of the season vs shots that generally would go in over the course of the season.

Heres a short explanation on his xg model : https://differentgame.wordpress.com/2014/05/19/a-shooting-model-an-expglanation-and-application/

Does anything in particular stand out to you as untrue, or not matching your eye?

Theres nothing to be worried about in this table I dont think, hes been below par this season, and weve been allowing too many shots against him from too good a position through the year.

If he continues that over a few years, or gets worse, or we reduce the xg against him but he continues to concede from soft areas - we can respond accordingly.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: brap2 on January 07, 2019, 02:00:13 PM
Think that table is based on that sort of thing.

Hes let in two more goals than he should have done.

Whereas Alisson has let in 7 fewer (eg saving Gomes header, Id imagine).

If I remember correctly Gomes header was about 0.60 xg.

So ~60% of the time that goes in. Scary to think he actually has to save another one for that to count as 1.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: Jamokachi on January 07, 2019, 03:04:44 PM
Would you have an issue with the data if Pickford was higher up the table?

I'd raise the point, because these things are never as black and white as the stats make out. If they were why would we even bother watching the games. They add to the sport, but it seems that they're quickly becoming the sport.

It's a moot point anyway, as @GLewis (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=258) and @brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) have explained.
Title: Re: Real after Pickford
Post by: brap2 on January 07, 2019, 03:19:02 PM
I'd raise the point, because these things are never as black and white as the stats make out. If they were why would we even bother watching the games. They add to the sport, but it seems that they're quickly becoming the sport.

It's a moot point anyway, as @GLewis (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=258) and @brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) have explained.

Can understand the reticence. Ive mentioned I struggle with this myself. A burgeoning interest in that side of the game with the knowledge that modern, well-run clubs are taking this stuff seriously makes it really hard to get away from - even if sometimes its telling you stuff you dont want to see or is a bit of a spoilsport.

For example the writer of the above table / article, really does not want silva at Everton, doesnt rate him and considers his signing a big mistake.

Im trying to ignore the fact hes been right about basically everything since I started following his work, and hold on to my silva in a multi year project is different to recent years prem silva POV, but its hard.