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NSNO Forums => The Everton Forum => Topic started by: TheRam on August 21, 2020, 12:37:42 AM

Title: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2020, 12:37:42 AM
Might as well have a thread on him.

Thoughts?

Good signing?

Or another uninspired, lazy piece of recruitment?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Silas on August 21, 2020, 12:42:40 AM
Good signing depending on price not the most creative of signings but I'm not sure given how shite our midfield is that's a bad thing. We need to know what we are getting to an extent and I think we can at least say this guy has been scouted to death
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on August 21, 2020, 12:44:58 AM
On paper I'd say a good signing, completely different player to what we have, athletic, tall, powerful... Should just slot straight in and make a substantial difference.

Yes the fee and wages for his age isn't what we were hoping for as a long term vision, but I think it's the one area of the pitch we need instant impact.

He's not world class but if he compliments Allen that area of the pitch gets an almighty upgrade of quality.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: toshyboy on August 21, 2020, 12:45:43 AM
Gotta trust Carlo, he clearly thinks he’ll add something and you’ve got the bonus of prem ready
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on August 21, 2020, 12:46:07 AM
Don't really fancy him in a 2 but think a 3 of him Allan and Gomes would be pretty solid. Not massively creative but could work in a similar way to Liverpool's midfield.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 21, 2020, 12:49:38 AM
Don't really fancy him in a 2 but think a 3 of him Allan and Gomes would be pretty solid. Not massively creative but could work in a similar way to Liverpool's midfield.

I’d like a 3, but I reckon those two will pretty much cement the 442.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on August 21, 2020, 12:50:41 AM
I’d like a 3, but I reckon those two will pretty much cement the 442.

Depends on whether Ancelotti was playing 442 out of necessity or choice, I guess.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on August 21, 2020, 12:53:10 AM
Depends on whether Ancelotti was playing 442 out of necessity or choice, I guess.

I think DCL - Richarlison is such a good combo when we don't have a 20+ goal scorer that we'll still be 4-4-2 next season.

Personally I'm not a fan of it, but I get the logic when your most dangerous asset is those two up top together.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 21, 2020, 12:54:57 AM
Depends on whether Ancelotti was playing 442 out of necessity or choice, I guess.

A bit of both, I reckon.

It seems to be his preferred default formation, anyway, (According to what he said to Carragher) and seeing Ferguson make us more solid whilst also getting our two most threatening players in the box more, it was an easy decision for him to continue with it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on August 21, 2020, 12:56:22 AM
Perfectly ok with it.

More excited by seeing how he works with Allan more than the actual signing of him itself.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ally2 on August 21, 2020, 12:56:48 AM
I like him and I think he will be very good for us.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on August 21, 2020, 12:56:57 AM
If he does stick with 442 then I fear it'll end very badly. It doesn't give us anywhere near enough control of the game and limits creativity. If we get a winger in then it'll set up for the 4-3-3 perfectly.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KingdingalingNL on August 21, 2020, 12:56:59 AM
I'm happy with this signing, he and Allan are what we need, both powerfull and get the ball back and always go forward.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on August 21, 2020, 01:28:43 AM
If he does stick with 442 then I fear it'll end very badly. It doesn't give us anywhere near enough control of the game and limits creativity. If we get a winger in then it'll set up for the 4-3-3 perfectly.
It won’t end badly because Carlo is a world class manager and if it starts to go tits up due to the formation, he’ll change it.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on August 21, 2020, 01:35:51 AM
Might as well have a thread on him.

Thoughts?

Good signing?

Or another uninspired, lazy piece of recruitment?

uninspired lazy and a good signing. looked great whenever ive seen him, not too many games mind. I dont get this thinking that we are set to play 442, because carlos italian maybe. Especially the early games the shape was changing a bit. Dont think we will have a predictable same shape every week type team, once he has got the right players in.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on August 21, 2020, 01:44:08 AM
Will be a good signing
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: markB on August 21, 2020, 01:57:04 AM
calling it now if we sign both of them we will be playing a 4132 deep at home and 4141 away and not signing a right sided winger this summer fullbacks attack at home and defend away

https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/5f3ecd134e5ac404cc46f122
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 21, 2020, 02:01:31 AM
If he does stick with 442 then I fear it'll end very badly. It doesn't give us anywhere near enough control of the game and limits creativity. If we get a winger in then it'll set up for the 4-3-3 perfectly.

I think as a shape, lots of teams morph into 442 when defending.

At the moment it’s either the Richarlison and DCL who are the most reliable players for energetic/ fast closing down so that suits us.

If we have a CM who can push up to do this (eg Doucoure) then it’s easier to shift Richarlison out to the left.

With the ball, the best performances have been when Bernard has drifted in from the left to form a sort of 2-1 CM shape.

I’m sure that they weren’t singular instructions so I’d guess that they were the games when the midfield pairing managed the most control of the game.

If we’re able to get control more often with better CMs then this would happen more often.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on August 21, 2020, 02:10:49 AM
I think "good singing" sums this up nicely.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 21, 2020, 02:18:39 AM
Wasn't what I wanted but reading the Watford forums have reassured me a bit that he could be good for us.

The general consensus is that while he's not the greatest passer of a ball, he's by far their most high energy player, and recovers A LOT of balls in the middle. At his best he's viewed as a Top 6 midfielder, who could easily fit into one of their teams.

What I've read about Allan is that he's a monster tackler, with the ability to dribble and create also, so Allan and Doucoure together could be a very high energy, powerful midfield for us.

Hope so anyway.
Title: Doucouré
Post by: mikey_blue on August 21, 2020, 02:19:21 AM
Not the most imaginative, but we do need a known quantity to go into our midfield. Can't really afford a player who needs time to adapt. I'd of liked to go for Sangaré or even a push for Soumaré but Doucouré is a safer bet I suppose.


https://statsbomb.com/2018/07/just-how-good-is-watfords-abdoulaye-doucoure/

Article is from 2018. So it’s just after his best season at Watford. Decent read if you can be arsed. My main concern is his positional awareness. We’re really going to need someone with discipline sat next to him to help the defence and keep shape when we don’t have possession.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 21, 2020, 02:19:34 AM
If he does stick with 442 then I fear it'll end very badly. It doesn't give us anywhere near enough control of the game and limits creativity. If we get a winger in then it'll set up for the 4-3-3 perfectly.

Think Ancelotti wants some big proven grocks to play his big proven mid 00's grock football.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Paddockoldie on August 21, 2020, 02:20:15 AM
Don't really fancy him in a 2 but think a 3 of him Allan and Gomes would be pretty solid. Not massively creative but could work in a similar way to Liverpool's midfield.

I think being released from defensive duties might allow Gomes to show his creativity more. I think he's got it but he needed to try and be a defensive style player... with Sig as a wing man???? Decent signing if we Allan too
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 21, 2020, 02:26:41 AM
Think Ancelotti wants some big proven grocks to play his big proven mid 00's grock football.


Not a fan of Carlo? Not thinking it's gonna work out?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 21, 2020, 02:34:15 AM
I'm good with this signing if Allan is the other one. If it's just Doucoure then I'm not so sure (unless there's some other really good CM we've been looking at and may sign).
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 21, 2020, 02:36:05 AM
Not a fan of Carlo? Not thinking it's gonna work out?

Wouldn't say I'm not a fan, I mean he's Carlo Ancelotti he gets automatic buy in based on that from me. It won't last forever but he gets that at least. If you're going to throw money at a steady pair of hands and hope he can steer you into a cup or a good league finish there's probably few better you could choose.

Re: work out...I'm not sure at this point what it working out looks like.

I guess I did hope we'd see more of a project forming, more of a modern club with smart signings and all that. It doesn't look like anyone at the club is interested in doing that despite the noises from Brands. It looks like they want to basically repeat the strategy of Koeman year one, bank on the weight of the manager and buy plug and play players for him with your fingers crossed.

Edit : also to be fair, I like Allan as a player and I think him and Doucoure will be a good midfield pair that will get us at least up to prem standard. We could be signing worse players definitely.

I just don't see the departure from previous mistakes that I was hoping to see. That's partly my issue though if I had expectations or hopes.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 21, 2020, 02:37:58 AM
Wouldn't say I'm not a fan, I mean he's Carlo Ancelotti he gets automatic buy in based on that from me. It won't last forever but he gets that at least. If you're going to throw money at a steady pair of hands and hope he can steer you into a cup or a good league finish there's probably few better you could choose.

Re: work out...I'm not sure at this point what it working out looks like.

I guess I did hope we'd see more of a project forming, more of a modern club with smart signings and all that. It doesn't look like anyone at the club is interested in doing that despite the noises from Brands. It looks like they want to basically repeat the strategy of Koeman year one, bank on the weight of the manager and buy plug and play players for him with your fingers crossed.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 21, 2020, 02:49:16 AM
Wouldn't say I'm not a fan, I mean he's Carlo Ancelotti he gets automatic buy in based on that from me. It won't last forever but he gets that at least. If you're going to throw money at a steady pair of hands and hope he can steer you into a cup or a good league finish there's probably few better you could choose.

Re: work out...I'm not sure at this point what it working out looks like.

I guess I did hope we'd see more of a project forming, more of a modern club with smart signings and all that. It doesn't look like anyone at the club is interested in doing that despite the noises from Brands. It looks like they want to basically repeat the strategy of Koeman year one, bank on the weight of the manager and buy plug and play players for him with your fingers crossed.

Edit : also to be fair, I like Allan as a player and I think him and Doucoure will be a good midfield pair that will get us at least up to prem standard. We could be signing worse players definitely.

I just don't see the departure from previous mistakes that I was hoping to see. That's partly my issue though if I had expectations or hopes.

As others have said, if we're going with powerful, ball winning midfielders, as we seem to be (which is fine, I guess), you'd hope that we had something more exciting in mind for the right wing, but then surely we don't have all that much money?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 21, 2020, 02:55:45 AM
As others have said, if we're going with powerful, ball winning midfielders, as we seem to be (which is fine, I guess), you'd hope that we had something more exciting in mind for the right wing, but then surely we don't have all that much money?

Yeah you'd like to hope so and certainly any from like Bailey, Lamar, Ocampos, Brooks, or going further back Neres or Lozano would fit the exciting bill. Maybe not cheap / smart but exciting.

But nah I can't see us spending £100m this summer, and I can't see where the money comes from in terms of our outs.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on August 21, 2020, 03:23:40 AM
Not the most imaginative, but we do need a known quantity to go into our midfield. Can't really afford a player who needs time to adapt. I'd of liked to go for Sangaré or even a push for Soumaré but Doucouré is a safer bet I suppose.


https://statsbomb.com/2018/07/just-how-good-is-watfords-abdoulaye-doucoure/

Article is from 2018. So it’s just after his best season at Watford. Decent read if you can be arsed. My main concern is his positional awareness. We’re really going to need someone with discipline sat next to him to help the defence and keep shape when we don’t have possession.

From the above link: "There’s enough evidence to suggest that Doucoure is more or less an average PL player that has an inflated reputation that can be attributed to his goal scoring. "

Ok so Doucoure is a Sigurdsson replacement, a player whose strength is scoring goals but only scores half as much him. Personally, I wouldn't sign him due to lack of fit.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Juanito on August 21, 2020, 03:25:40 AM
I’m really pleased with this. Know what we are getting to an extent and he could kick on at a new club with new manager. Got goals in him, box to box but more importantly, has what we have been missing in the middle of the park;

Power
Pace
Presence
Covers ground
Energy


Allan could be a cult hero, too. I would like to see a three with Gomes. Richarlison, DCL and new signing up top (Sarr, or someone similar who offers pace and power) Kean to compete with DCL.

Also, find the new Cafu from Brazil and sign him for 2.5 million.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 21, 2020, 03:26:49 AM
From the above link: "There's enough evidence to suggest that Doucoure is more or less an average PL player that has an inflated reputation that can be attributed to his goal scoring. "

Ok so Doucoure is a Sigurdsson replacement, a player whose strength is scoring goals but only scores half as much him. Personally, I wouldn't sign him due to lack of fit.
It's a really difficult one, I personally don't think Doucoure is all that, yes he's better than what we have, but it's not that hard. Going abroad isn't mailed on either, I'd have put money on Ndombele tearing the league up at Spurs, but he's been woeful. Doucoure will make us more competitive which will be good, but he's a pretty limited player

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 21, 2020, 03:33:19 AM
From the above link: "There’s enough evidence to suggest that Doucoure is more or less an average PL player that has an inflated reputation that can be attributed to his goal scoring. "

Ok so Doucoure is a Sigurdsson replacement, a player whose strength is scoring goals but only scores half as much him. Personally, I wouldn't sign him due to lack of fit.



In short, yes.

He's a.totally different type of player, but the two things current sigurdsson currently adds to this side are : lots of pressing and runs into the box.

They are doucoures two stand out abilities as a box to box midfielder.

The other is that he has that Ross Barkley style ability to take the ball from one box to the other by charging up the pitch with it.

The difference is that outside of that he's an OK midfielder who can do a little bit of everything else.

Be fine if we can match that with another actual midfielder who can do other good stuff.

Functions of a midfielder :

hold shape
Tackles in each third
Interceptions
Pressing / off the ball defence
Rotate the ball
Break the lines with passes
Drive the ball forward with dribbles
Off the ball attacking runs
G+A
Prolly some other stuff

Finding a blend of players who do a bit of that each to form a whole is the key.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kramer0 on August 21, 2020, 03:40:06 AM
Lazy.

I thought the arrival of Brands meant we were done adding players one move too late.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on August 21, 2020, 03:42:02 AM
In short, yes.

He's a.totally different type of player, but the two things current sigurdsson currently adds to this side are : lots of pressing and runs into the box.

They are doucoures two stand out abilities as a box to box midfielder.

The other is that he has that Ross Barkley style ability to take the ball from one box to the other by charging up the pitch with it.

The difference is that outside of that he's an OK midfielder who can do a little bit of everything else.

Be fine if we can match that with another actual midfielder who can do other good stuff.

Functions of a midfielder :

hold shape
Tackles in each third
Interceptions
Pressing / off the ball defence
Rotate the ball
Break the lines with passes
Drive the ball forward with dribbles
Off the ball attacking runs
G+A
Prolly some other stuff

Finding a blend of players who do a bit of that each to form a whole is the key.

He's not a good passer either according to the stats.

Yes I do recognise he's good at driving forward, pressing, etc, but the inability to pass just undermines his good work.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on August 21, 2020, 03:54:02 AM
Lazy.

I thought the arrival of Brands meant we were done adding players one move too late.


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I just don’t think this is the league for that approach, unfortunately.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 21, 2020, 04:01:00 AM
Lazy.

I thought the arrival of Brands meant we were done adding players one move too late.


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These will all be Moshiri signings, especially if they go tits up....

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 21, 2020, 04:01:54 AM
From the above link: "There’s enough evidence to suggest that Doucoure is more or less an average PL player that has an inflated reputation that can be attributed to his goal scoring. "

Ok so Doucoure is a Sigurdsson replacement, a player whose strength is scoring goals but only scores half as much him. Personally, I wouldn't sign him due to lack of fit.

So sayeth the Gylfi superfan. Shocking.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 21, 2020, 04:03:01 AM
So sayeth the Gylfi superfan. Shocking.

The article he is quoting is not written by a fan of gylfi Sigurdsson.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 21, 2020, 04:04:31 AM
The article he is quoting is not written by a fan of gylfi Sigurdsson.

No, but U-b is. The comment after the quote is not from the article.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 21, 2020, 04:06:39 AM
Lazy.

I thought the arrival of Brands meant we were done adding players one move too late.


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I mentioned this earlier, but how much longer do you think Moshiri will wait to get a return on his investment, and how many years of Carlo's contract do you think they want to waste trying to succeed with all under-25s?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on August 21, 2020, 04:09:57 AM
No, but U-b is. The comment after the quote is not from the article.

Where did I say I was a superfan of Sigurdsson? All what I did was to completely smashed your argument on him by logical reasoning. You should try it sometime.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 21, 2020, 04:11:19 AM
Where did I say I was a superfan of Sigurdsson? All what I did was to completely smashed your argument on him by logical reasoning. You should try it sometime.

lol

Were you or were you not the white knight defender of Sig's in his thread? If not, my sincerest apologies, but I'm pretty sure.

edit: nevermind, I confirmed it. You think his set piece & pen goals made him the bee's knees. No need to go over that nonsense again.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on August 21, 2020, 04:18:27 AM
lol

Were you or were you not the white knight defender of Sig's in his thread? If not, my sincerest apologies, but I'm pretty sure.

No silly you! I was merely pointing out the errors of your thinking caused by the usual knee jerk reactions.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 21, 2020, 04:19:54 AM
Lazy.

I thought the arrival of Brands meant we were done adding players one move too late.


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Does anyone know the spread of profile of his signings at PSV?

Just wondering as I think there’s a general conception that everyone in Holland is signing under the radar players.

Maybe some of the players he was signing were obvious in that environment?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on August 21, 2020, 04:37:46 AM
Does anyone know the spread of profile of his signings at PSV?

Just wondering as I think there’s a general conception that everyone in Holland is signing under the radar players.

Maybe some of the players he was signing were obvious in that environment?

Try this:

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/12/25/do-xmas-marcel-brands-xi-the-everton-chiefs-best-signings-make-a/
Title: Doucouré
Post by: kramer0 on August 21, 2020, 04:40:08 AM
I mentioned this earlier, but how much longer do you think Moshiri will wait to get a return on his investment, and how many years of Carlo's contract do you think they want to waste trying to succeed with all under-25s?

It's irrelevant. He's never getting a return on his investment.

We won't catch the top sides by buying all of the "known” (I can't emphasize the quotes here enough because I think this idea is a load of crap) quantities they don't want (which usually means they’re older and/or not that good).

We won't make money to reinvest in the squad because we're signing players at the point of their declining usefulness.

As for Ancelotti... he's a great coach in a league with plenty of other great coaches. He's not the smartest guy in the room. Getting him the exact players he says he wants guarantees fuck all. Getting him quality players with room to grow should he enough. Clubs can build a winning culture with talented, ambitious players 25 and under.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on August 21, 2020, 04:45:24 AM
It’s irrelevant. He’s never getting a return on his investment.

We won’t catch the top sides by buying all of the “known” (I can’t emphasize the quotes here enough because I think this idea is a load of crap) players they don’t want.

We won’t make money to reinvest in the squad because we’re signing players at the point of their declining usefulness.

As for Ancelotti... he’s a great coach in a league with plenty of other great coaches. He’s not the smartest guy in the room. Getting him the exact players he says he wants guarantees fuck all. Getting him quality players with room to grow should he enough. Clubs can build a winning culture with talented, ambitious players 25 and under.

Definitely agree. The only problem is that we have some clueless fans who expect to see us spending millions as a sign of ambition without having no idea to achieve success.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kramer0 on August 21, 2020, 04:45:45 AM
Does anyone know the spread of profile of his signings at PSV?

Just wondering as I think there's a general conception that everyone in Holland is signing under the radar players.

Maybe some of the players he was signing were obvious in that environment?

Obvious is alright.

I more have an issue with bringing them in at the tail end of their usefulness.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 21, 2020, 04:53:34 AM
Obvious is alright.

I more have an issue with bringing them in at the tail end of their usefulness.

Yeah same really.

Known =/= Bad. It's the whole package that is looking a bit wobbly.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on August 21, 2020, 04:55:42 AM
It’s irrelevant. He’s never getting a return on his investment.

We won’t catch the top sides by buying all of the “known” (I can’t emphasize the quotes here enough because I think this idea is a load of crap) players they don’t want.

We won’t make money to reinvest in the squad because we’re signing players at the point of their declining usefulness.

As for Ancelotti... he’s a great coach in a league with plenty of other great coaches. He’s not the smartest guy in the room. Getting him the exact players he says he wants guarantees fuck all. Getting him quality players with room to grow should he enough. Clubs can build a winning culture with talented, ambitious players 25 and under.

The way I look at it is that we could buy some 22 year olds for £10m a pop who have come from an inferior league and won't improve us for maybe two years, in which time we stay mid table and hope that a further 3 years after that those players become top class (at which point we get maybe one season of usefulness before they depart for someone bigger). However there's no guarantee that'll even happen, they might just be another Besic and do nothing, at which point you're now heading down the league not up.

The club seem to be doing two things currently:

1) investing in 'dead certs' that will instantly improve us and under a world class manager hopefully help is challenge the top 6 using players he wants and knows will work in his desired tactics and way of playing.

2) Buying extremely promising non first team ready youth players for relatively low money in the hope they develop in to first team players, such as Branthwaite and the left back we bought, whilst also trying to improve existing young first team players like DCL and Holgate.

The only time we've really ventured down the high potential upside young player is Kean and by and large it's been a disaster (so far).  So going down that route is extremely risky, if you put your whole transfer strategy ethos on doing that and buy 4 Kean's you aren't challenging the top 4, you're being relegated.

I think we've really just got to trust our world class manager knows what we actually need more than a bunch of people on a footy forum tbh.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cereal Killer on August 21, 2020, 05:02:54 AM
 lolol

You can’t build anything around a team of under 23s with “potential” and hope we strike gold on all of them, more likely to be relegated with that approach, but hey, might make a bit of money in the process for the 1 or 2 players who are world class
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Thornton_19 on August 21, 2020, 05:15:01 AM
Im hoping him along with Allan allows us time to bring in the players full of potential.

I honestly think they probably HAD to do this transfer just to not have what happened last season to our midfield.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 21, 2020, 05:31:23 AM
The way I look at it is that we could buy some 22 year olds for £10m a pop who have come from an inferior league and won't improve us for maybe two years, in which time we stay mid table and hope that a further 3 years after that those players become top class (at which point we get maybe one season of usefulness before they depart for someone bigger). However there's no guarantee that'll even happen, they might just be another Besic and do nothing, at which point you're now heading down the league not up.

The club seem to be doing two things currently:

1) investing in 'dead certs' that will instantly improve us and under a world class manager hopefully help is challenge the top 6 using players he wants and knows will work in his desired tactics and way of playing.

2) Buying extremely promising non first team ready youth players for relatively low money in the hope they develop in to first team players, such as Branthwaite and the left back we bought, whilst also trying to improve existing young first team players like DCL and Holgate.

The only time we've really ventured down the high potential upside young player is Kean and by and large it's been a disaster (so far).  So going down that route is extremely risky, if you put your whole transfer strategy ethos on doing that and buy 4 Kean's you aren't challenging the top 4, you're being relegated.

I think we've really just got to trust our world class manager knows what we actually need more than a bunch of people on a footy forum tbh.

My over/under on how many games into the season Carlo starts to feel the weekly wrath has dropped considerably. It's pre-festive season now for sure.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kramer0 on August 21, 2020, 05:39:03 AM
lolol

You can't build anything around a team of under 23s with "potential” and hope we strike gold on all of them, more likely to be relegated with that approach, but hey, might make a bit of money in the process for the 1 or 2 players who are world class

- Potential and being good enough to play first team football in the PL aren’t mutually exclusive. Richarlison was a good PL starter when we bought him and he’s gotten better. Every year, there’s a handful of players that move to the PL from leagues like Ligue 1 or the Championship, slide comfortably into starting roles, and go up a level with a year of regular PL games under their belt.

- Using the language “under 23s” is deliberately misrepresenting my point. There are plenty of available players 25 and under who have played enough first team football to demonstrate their quality. Some will be looking to make a set up (Richarlison), others will be looking for regular games after a failed big move (Digne, Mina). I’m not talking about only signing the most promising academy players, which is a daft strategy for a PL club (a handful of these is alright, e.g. DCL, Holgate).

- Every player in our squad worth a fuck was acquired at age 25 or earlier.

- We’ve tanked hundreds of millions on players with precious PL experience who can “do a job right away.” Some are gone but most are making a huge wage while contributing fuck all.

- As a bonus point... we even made money on some of the younger acquisitions that didn’t work out for us (Lookman, Vlasic).
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 21, 2020, 05:39:50 AM
My over/under on how many games into the season Carlo starts to feel the weekly wrath has dropped considerably. It's pre-festive season now for sure.

So are you gonna always makes veiled digs about the fanbase every time there's reasonable questioning or debate about the direction the team is taking? Just wondering, so I can prepare for it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2020, 05:58:14 AM
All valid concerns.

I don’t get why people have to misinterpret the point some posters are trying to make.

We just want the club to be smarter with how they recruit players and this signing signals a return to mistakes of the past.

Nobody is saying our recruitment needs to be solely based around signing under 23 players for buttons.

We were sold a vision by Brands of investing the majority of our money on players 25 so we can continue to reinvest the money we spend and build a team for years to come.

It’s a solid recruitment strategy that has worked across the continent and on these shores for decades. We seem to be going against that in this window for whatever reason and that’s bound to raise some concerns.

Maybe it’s the way we need to go for the next twelve months. Get a base level back to the squad, sign players we know can slot in straight away to get us to where we need to be.

We invested heavily in three under 25 players last summer in gbamin, iwobi and kean and for various reasons we’re still waiting for them to contribute something meaningful.

In the short term that window probably set us back so to counter that we’re goings back to players for the now.

These signings need to be few and far between though. Get your engine room for the next two years for £50m, sound, but we shouldn’t deviate from investing the majority of our budget on younger players as that will always work out for a club in the long term.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on August 21, 2020, 06:08:00 AM
I think we are going to have to be patient and build that midfield out. It may be for this season we just need to bring in established players with a view to just shoring up that midfield then next season we expand it out further through mixing it up with younger players brought in who will become more progressive.

The danger is we stop adding to that midfield and rely on Doucoure and Allan for the next three to four seasons as a midfield pairing. That'll get destroyed by opposition teams.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 21, 2020, 06:24:12 AM
As others have said, if we're going with powerful, ball winning midfielders, as we seem to be (which is fine, I guess), you'd hope that we had something more exciting in mind for the right wing, but then surely we don't have all that much money?
I think that, unfortunately, unless we can move on one of Iwobi, Sigurdsson, Bernard or Walcott we wont see a big money signing in that area.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on August 21, 2020, 06:45:58 AM
I'm hoping a midfield pair of Doucoure and Allan is to shore things up in order to allow us to take a punt on a younger creative type who can be subbed in or played at the right times.

If those two can shut up shop and we get a goal or two in front then let's see more of Kean and maybe another, young,  exciting player.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 21, 2020, 06:50:54 AM
I'm hoping a midfield pair of Doucoure and Allan is to shore things up in order to allow us to take a punt on a younger creative type who can be subbed in or played at the right times.

If those two can shut up shop and we get a goal or two in front then let's see more of Kean and maybe another, young,  exciting player.
Yeah.

Allan
Doucoure
Gomes
Gbamin (fingers crossed)

It leaves us in good shape.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 21, 2020, 01:14:16 PM
It's irrelevant. He's never getting a return on his investment.

We won't catch the top sides by buying all of the "known” (I can't emphasize the quotes here enough because I think this idea is a load of crap) quantities they don't want (which usually means they're older and/or not that good).

We won't make money to reinvest in the squad because we're signing players at the point of their declining usefulness.

As for Ancelotti... he's a great coach in a league with plenty of other great coaches. He's not the smartest guy in the room. Getting him the exact players he says he wants guarantees fuck all. Getting him quality players with room to grow should he enough. Clubs can build a winning culture with talented, ambitious players 25 and under.
I think there is such a void of leadership Carlo wants to install people he knows well and that will work and add this dimension.
I'm also not sure about this return on investment bit, for example if we could take 4 years off Allan do people think we'd still be negotiating a deal of around 25 or would it more likely be 45? I know its a bit of finger in the air, but I don't think the amount we will lose is as significant as people make out as there would be that natural depreciation anyway even if we got him at a better age. Yes, people can throw Sig at me saying we'll lose 45 on him, but that was simply down to the fact we massively overpaid in the first place.
I completely agree that our vision should be to pick up 17-21 year old that we can sale for massive profit, but we are miles off being in the position where we can really adopt that and expect any of them to flourish imo

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 21, 2020, 01:22:48 PM
The windows not shut yet.

Looks like Brands will sign pups like JB given the opportunity.

Looks like Brands will sign prime age pre-peak players like Digne given the chance.

Looks like Brands will sign peaking established players for decent wedge of their profile fits given the chance. (Question: wouldn’t this be really cool if you were a DoF with a great rep in Holland and got a big promotion to a big PL side? “Hey brands, great job with PSV. Come work with us within great riches of the PL - btw you’re still only allowed to sign 17yr olds from the 2nd tier in Chile for £750k”)

Looks like Brands gets pretty much the deal he wants and isn’t arsed about drawing out negotiations to get the best deal.

Looks like Brands respects the limited finances and either moves players on or finds them loans until they are released from their contract.

Granted he left us without a midfield for near 2yrs, which is really bad. But revamping an entire engine room with a CL and minimum EL pair for £50m is genuinely decent. It also coincides with a lot of contracts ending. The pre-Brands spending stopped us from having a midfield over the past 2yrs, not that he couldn’t identify the players and make the deals. Imo.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 21, 2020, 01:29:29 PM
All valid concerns.

I don’t get why people have to misinterpret the point some posters are trying to make.

We just want the club to be smarter with how they recruit players and this signing signals a return to mistakes of the past.

Nobody is saying our recruitment needs to be solely based around signing under 23 players for buttons.

We were sold a vision by Brands of investing the majority of our money on players 25 so we can continue to reinvest the money we spend and build a team for years to come.

It’s a solid recruitment strategy that has worked across the continent and on these shores for decades. We seem to be going against that in this window for whatever reason and that’s bound to raise some concerns.

Maybe it’s the way we need to go for the next twelve months. Get a base level back to the squad, sign players we know can slot in straight away to get us to where we need to be.

We invested heavily in three under 25 players last summer in gbamin, iwobi and kean and for various reasons we’re still waiting for them to contribute something meaningful.

In the short term that window probably set us back so to counter that we’re goings back to players for the now.

These signings need to be few and far between though. Get your engine room for the next two years for £50m, sound, but we shouldn’t deviate from investing the majority of our budget on younger players as that will always work out for a club in the long term.

All good points.

I think there’s what almost seems like a fundamentalism with regards to the age of players though.

Re previous mistakes, they were worse because we paid massive fees £28m for Bolasie at that time is about £50m now given how fees ballooned the year after. Same as Sig being £44m.

We’re not seemingly going anywhere near those relative numbers here and he seems to do what we actually need (lots of pressing etc in other half) unlike Bolasie who had never scored in his career and Sig who is a specific type of AM.

And I’d say that the reason why the majority of teams/ DoFs invest in younger players is out of economic necessity, not some idealistic trait.

If we’ve decided that we can afford some more fees that we don’t recoup then there’s nothing wrong with it.

I think that the age profile of the likely first XI is pretty mixed and would see big value in Richarlison, DCL and Holgate. Reasonable value in Digne; and potential value in Iwobi and more likely Kean.

However, all players will be worth more with a better team performance and them not looking so useless. 
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on August 21, 2020, 01:48:27 PM
- Potential and being good enough to play first team football in the PL aren’t mutually exclusive. Richarlison was a good PL starter when we bought him and he’s gotten better. Every year, there’s a handful of players that move to the PL from leagues like Ligue 1 or the Championship, slide comfortably into starting roles, and go up a level with a year of regular PL games under their belt.

- Using the language “under 23s” is deliberately misrepresenting my point. There are plenty of available players 25 and under who have played enough first team football to demonstrate their quality. Some will be looking to make a set up (Richarlison), others will be looking for regular games after a failed big move (Digne, Mina). I’m not talking about only signing the most promising academy players, which is a daft strategy for a PL club (a handful of these is alright, e.g. DCL, Holgate).

- Every player in our squad worth a fuck was acquired at age 25 or earlier.

- We’ve tanked hundreds of millions on players with precious PL experience who can “do a job right away.” Some are gone but most are making a huge wage while contributing fuck all.

- As a bonus point... we even made money on some of the younger acquisitions that didn’t work out for us (Lookman, Vlasic).


The others were bought by Sam Allardcye and Koeman though... I trust Ancelloti with what he needs 1000 over those two.

I'm not arsed we've spent between £40 & £50m (if we get Allen) on a ready to go midfield partnership because if it clicks it's excellent value for money.

You mentioned Richarlison and he cost £40m, that's nearly what we've paid for two players who will instantly improve us.  Relatively speaking it shows we've done decent business here.

If we signed.a.29 year old right back for £20m.and a 28 year old right mid / winger for £25m too then I'm jumping on your ship totally because I don't see the logic in that.  This though I 100% do.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Juanito on August 21, 2020, 01:56:42 PM
Midfield combo of Allan and Doucouré, exactly what we need in the middle of the park, same cost more or less of Sigurdsson - Progress
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 21, 2020, 02:18:52 PM
All good points.

I think there’s what almost seems like a fundamentalism with regards to the age of players though.

Re previous mistakes, they were worse because we paid massive fees £28m for Bolasie at that time is about £50m now given how fees ballooned the year after. Same as Sig being £44m.

We’re not seemingly going anywhere near those relative numbers here and he seems to do what we actually need (lots of pressing etc in other half) unlike Bolasie who had never scored in his career and Sig who is a specific type of AM.

And I’d say that the reason why the majority of teams/ DoFs invest in younger players is out of economic necessity, not some idealistic trait.

If we’ve decided that we can afford some more fees that we don’t recoup then there’s nothing wrong with it.

I think that the age profile of the likely first XI is pretty mixed and would see big value in Richarlison, DCL and Holgate. Reasonable value in Digne; and potential value in Iwobi and more likely Kean.

However, all players will be worth more with a better team performance and them not looking so useless. 

Also length of contract to be fair. We hopefully won't be saddled with unplayables should it go tits up.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 21, 2020, 03:04:19 PM
Also length of contract to be fair. We hopefully won't be saddled with unplayables should it go tits up.

Also with attacking players, like Bolasie or Sandro etc people aren’t going to take them on if there’s no chance of them producing outputs in line with their wage.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: wepull on August 21, 2020, 04:33:43 PM
Well we have been changing managers at almost 1/year rate so one of the reasons might be that Ancelloti would be more thinking about saving his job than think about building a future for the club.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Hawkandro on August 21, 2020, 04:38:44 PM
Try this:

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/12/25/do-xmas-marcel-brands-xi-the-everton-chiefs-best-signings-make-a/

Can see why we have been linked with Romero, Mertens and Arias now.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 21, 2020, 06:26:53 PM
So are you gonna always makes veiled digs about the fanbase every time there's reasonable questioning or debate about the direction the team is taking? Just wondering, so I can prepare for it.

It's just an observation, BD, not a dig - veiled or otherwise - at anyone. I made the same observations re: Silva as well, and he really did stink! Sorry if you thought I was directing the comment at you, but I wasn't. It was more an agreement with Andy about trusting our manager.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on August 21, 2020, 07:07:57 PM
I’m not even going to post the link, but TalkSport reckon we’ve had a £15m bid rejected and Fulham and Wolves are now in the race.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Evertonian in NC on August 21, 2020, 07:15:06 PM
I won't sign old players (with VERY few exceptions) even with Pretend Man City money.  "Old" being over 25, I prefer to buy around 17-19.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2020, 07:23:22 PM
It's just an observation, BD, not a dig - veiled or otherwise - at anyone. I made the same observations re: Silva as well, and he really did stink! Sorry if you thought I was directing the comment at you, but I wasn't. It was more an agreement with Andy about trusting our manager.

We can trust the manager whilst also having concerns.

Carlo has only been here a few months. We've been supporting the club for years, sometimes a fanbase can have a better understanding at what is needed.

I mean, we were all told to trust Koeman because of his standing in the game and look how that turned out.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 21, 2020, 07:32:10 PM
It's just an observation, BD, not a dig - veiled or otherwise - at anyone. I made the same observations re: Silva as well, and he really did stink! Sorry if you thought I was directing the comment at you, but I wasn't. It was more an agreement with Andy about trusting our manager.

I didn't think you were aiming the comment at me. I think you were aiming it at the fanbase generally. You keep saying the same basic thing over and over again, which is that we won't give anyone a chance, even Ancelotti, and we'll be slaughtering him before too long.

I think on this forum it's mostly just a few people wondering how the 4-4-2 will work in the longterm and whether he can make it work here. Nothing more than that really.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on August 21, 2020, 07:37:54 PM
I don't think 27 is particularly old. These are prime years. And 25 mill is an average fee these days.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 21, 2020, 07:38:52 PM
I don't think 27 is particularly old. These are prime years. And 25 mill is an average fee these days.

18 year olds do though 😂
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on August 21, 2020, 07:39:07 PM
18 year olds do though 😂

hahaha yes
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 21, 2020, 07:39:10 PM


We can trust the manager whilst also having concerns.

Carlo has only been here a few months. We've been supporting the club for years, sometimes a fanbase can have a better understanding at what is needed.

I mean, we were all told to trust Koeman because of his standing in the game and look how that turned out.

Finishing with our highest number of points in the last 7 years then telling him to go into the subsequent season without a striker isn't ever gonna turn out well for anyone is it?  Hopefully Brands wont let Carlo down in the same way Walsh did with Koeman

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Silas on August 21, 2020, 07:39:15 PM
I don't think 27 is particularly old. These are prime years. And 25 mill is an average fee these days.

It's not but they do need to be pretty much good on arrival and stay at that level for a long time to be really good value
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on August 21, 2020, 07:40:18 PM
It's not but they do need to be pretty much good on arrival and stay at that level for a long time to be really good value

Well, yes of course. At that age you're buying someone with at least 5 good years left in them plus experience which will help them settle in quicker than a younger player.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2020, 07:47:01 PM

Finishing with our highest number of points in the last 7 years then telling him to go into the subsequent season without a striker isn't ever gonna turn out well for anyone is it?  Hopefully Brands wont let Carlo down in the same way Walsh did with Koeman

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Koeman was terrible. He was the one behind the signings of sigurddson and the like

No one to blame but himself.

Point is, we were all told Koeman knows best, never doubt him, and look at the mess he left behind. Still trying to clean up his mess to this day.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 21, 2020, 07:54:15 PM
I didn't think you were aiming the comment at me. I think you were aiming it at the fanbase generally. You keep saying the same basic thing over and over again, which is that we won't give anyone a chance, even Ancelotti, and we'll be slaughtering him before too long.

I think on this forum it's mostly just a few people wondering how the 4-4-2 will work in the longterm and whether he can make it work here. Nothing more than that really.

That's fair, and you're right, it's a general fanbase thing. Ram is right too, in that I haven't had to go through this over & over. If it makes you feel any better, I do the same thing with Yankees & NY Rangers fans too, both notoriously impatient and fickle at times. 😉
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bigmanbob on August 21, 2020, 07:54:25 PM
Koeman was terrible. He was the one behind the signings of sigurddson and the like

No one to blame but himself.

Point is, we were all told Koeman knows best, never doubt him, and look at the mess he left behind. Still trying to clean up his mess to this day.



But Koeman is hardly comparable to Carlo, both in world standing  and trophies won, Koeman was thought of like that because of his footballing career rather than what he had done as a manager, which isn't much to write home about
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 21, 2020, 07:58:14 PM
That's fair, and you're right, it's a general fanbase thing. Ram is right too, in that I haven't had to go through this over & over. If it makes you feel any better, I do the same thing with Yankees & NY Rangers fans too, both notoriously impatient and fickle at times. 😉

I don't think it's fair to paint us as notoriously impatient and/or fickle. With the best will in the world, you haven't been on this ride for 30/40 years and suffered all the previous disappointments that the rest of us have.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ally2 on August 21, 2020, 07:58:29 PM
Koeman was good for a season and bad for (barely half) a season. What does that tell you?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 21, 2020, 07:59:15 PM


Koeman was terrible. He was the one behind the signings of sigurddson and the like

No one to blame but himself.

Point is, we were all told Koeman knows best, never doubt him, and look at the mess he left behind. Still trying to clean up his mess to this day.

But you're not seeing the bigger picture, it's not about Koeman, it's not about Allardyce or Silva either it's about the club.
If your going to invest in a manager, like we appear to do more than a strategy or vision, then do that, but don't start crying and sack them when you fail to address the issues those mangers raised and then wonder why our squad is all to fuck after doing this 3 times.
Sig could've been a wonderful signing if Koeman got the players he wanted, he didn't and the rest is history, but that's more the clubs failings imo than Koeman. Moving on to Carlo it looks like we are going down the same route, albeit I like a majority of the players were linked with but if this fails we're even more fucked.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 21, 2020, 08:01:04 PM
I don't think it's fair to paint us as notoriously impatient and/or fickle. With the best will in the world, you haven't been on this ride for 30/40 years and suffered all the previous disappointments that the rest of us have.

I'm sure it's been rather trying at times, to say the least.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 21, 2020, 08:02:42 PM
Koeman was solid for a season. 7th was our expected finishing position in relation to budget and playing squad at that time. The longer Koeman was there, the worse we got. I kinda think the stuff about him half arsing everything in favour of playing golf was true in hindsight.

Also, he had a fucking terrible attitude.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2020, 08:04:21 PM

But you're not seeing the bigger picture, it's not about Koeman, it's not about Allardyce or Silva either it's about the club.
If your going to invest in a manager, like we appear to do more than a strategy or vision, then do that, but don't start crying and sack them when you fail to address the issues those mangers raised and then wonder why our squad is all to fuck after doing this 3 times.
Sig could've been a wonderful signing if Koeman got the players he wanted, he didn't and the rest is history, but that's more the clubs failings imo than Koeman. Moving on to Carlo it looks like we are going down the same route, albeit I like a majority of the players were linked with but if this fails we're even more fucked.

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I think I'am seeing the bigger picture.

We brought Marcel Brands in oversee recruitment and we shouldn't disregard his output for the sake of throwing another load of money about for another manager.

Isn't that how we're in this mess. Too many players bought by too many different managers bringing a lack of cohesion and belonging to the club?

If we're doing this for one window to get us back afoot then fine, but there needs to be a long term strategy in place so we're not pressing the reset button every two years. 
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on August 21, 2020, 08:07:28 PM
I’m not even going to post the link, but TalkSport reckon we’ve had a £15m bid rejected and Fulham and Wolves are now in the race.
Perhaps they've recycled this report from yesterday, which claimed a bid of "more than €20m" had been rejected.

https://www.footmercato.net/a6963998565609377980-ce-que-reclame-watford-pour-abdoulaye-doucoure
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on August 21, 2020, 08:11:20 PM
I don't think it's fair to paint us as notoriously impatient and/or fickle. With the best will in the world, you haven't been on this ride for 30/40 years and suffered all the previous disappointments that the rest of us have.
Tbf, I’d say we’re pretty fickle as a fanbase and certainly impatient. That’s not a reflection on the character of the average Evertonian, it’s purely due to us being deprived of success for so long. It’s certainly been compounded since the Moshiri takeover as we’ve not kicked.

I’d say this forum has the calmest section of fans I know, which is why I hang out here.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 21, 2020, 08:15:37 PM
Tbf, I’d say we’re pretty fickle as a fanbase and certainly impatient. That’s not a reflection on the character of the average Evertonian, it’s purely due to us being deprived of success for so long. It’s certainly been compounded since the Moshiri takeover as we’ve not kicked.

I’d say this forum has the calmest section of fans I know, which is why I hang out here.


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No more than anybody else (imo). Societally, people are more fickle and changeable than before. It wasn't all that long ago that you'd get quite a number of reds wanting Klopp gone because it took a while for his ideas to kick in. Loads of Chelsea fans wanted Lampard gone at times last season, same with sections of the Arsenal fanbase and Arteta, same with OGS and Man U. People can't handle waiting for things, or giving them time to breathe (myself included). Attention spans have dropped noticeably (mine included).

I think we're quite neurotic as a fanbase, but our neuroses are entirely warranted and justified (in my view).
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 21, 2020, 08:17:32 PM



We brought Marcel Brands in oversee recruitment and we shouldn't disregard his output for the sake of throwing another load of money about for another manager.


But it appears we are just throwing a load of money about for a new manager?


Isn't that how we're in this mess. Too many players bought by too many different managers bringing a lack of cohesion and belonging to the club?
 

Yes, so why do it again?


If we're doing this for one window to get us back afoot then fine, but there needs to be a long term strategy in place so we're not pressing the reset button every two years.

And if it fails, like it did with Koeman /Allardyce/Silva then what. It's been 2.5 years and no sign of a long term strategy with the exception of a statement saying we need to sign youth, followed up by signing Delph and now we're e after Allan, Doucoure and Arias. I don't think I'm asking for the world, but when are we going to learn?

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 21, 2020, 08:22:43 PM

But it appears we are just throwing a load of money about for a new manager?

Yes, so why do it again?

And if it fails, like it did with Koeman /Allardyce/Silva then what. It's been 2.5 years and no sign of a long term strategy with the exception of a statement saying we need to sign youth, followed up by signing Delph and now we're e after Allan, Doucoure and Arias. I don't think I'm asking for the world, but when are we going to learn?

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Majority of the money spent under Brands has been spent on players 25 and under with the view of re-sale value and moulding a team for years to come. I dont want us to deviate from that strategy long term, but accept why we may need to take a hit over the next 12 months to get us to a competitive level again.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on August 22, 2020, 12:12:56 AM
Majority of the money spent under Brands has been spent on players 25 and under with the view of re-sale value and moulding a team for years to come. I dont want us to deviate from that strategy long term, but accept why we may need to take a hit over the next 12 months to get us to a competitive level again.

This.

Let's fix the leaks in the hull before arguing over what colour the sails should be.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 22, 2020, 01:35:15 AM
Of course we are want a young team with players we can turn big profits on but the reality is we actually have some decent young players while almost all of our senior pros have been a massive letdown. We actually need some senior players we can rely on
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 22, 2020, 03:08:46 AM
Of course we are want a young team with players we can turn big profits on but the reality is we actually have some decent young players while almost all of our senior pros have been a massive letdown. We actually need some senior players we can rely on
Spot on that.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bigmanbob on August 22, 2020, 04:23:24 AM
yep, bob on
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 22, 2020, 04:24:21 AM
I have the feeling that almost everyone in here is trying to get a recognition from other members in here in their answers.  When asked about Doucoure.

You're all bandwagon jumpers.

IMO he could be kind of a Patrick Vieira type of player for us.

That´s my annual post in here.

COYB!

ps.  ;)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 22, 2020, 04:38:18 AM
Get a load of this guy.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on August 22, 2020, 04:46:15 AM
Bejeesus! It's Ari!

Hope you have been taking care mate.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 22, 2020, 04:51:08 AM
Bejeesus! It's Ari!

Hope you have been taking care mate.

Thanks, I have :) (for the last 7-8 months)

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 22, 2020, 05:03:51 AM
Haha, Avi’s back
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Silas on August 22, 2020, 03:17:22 PM
Ari is back shit just got real
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: arteta4spain on August 22, 2020, 03:50:27 PM


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Free Agent on August 22, 2020, 04:28:00 PM
Haha, Ari’s back


He’s like a new signing...


Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mac934 on August 22, 2020, 05:02:17 PM
Of course we are want a young team with players we can turn big profits on but the reality is we actually have some decent young players while almost all of our senior pros have been a massive letdown. We actually need some senior players we can rely on
It's all very well having a young team with players we can turn big profits on.......Personally I would rather have a team of young players  we can win things with, or at least qualify for Europe on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 22, 2020, 05:15:17 PM
It's all very well having a young team with players we can turn big profits on.......Personally I would rather have a team of young players  we can win things with, or at least qualify for Europe on a regular basis.

Of course but that’s some way down the line regardless. Even if we were successful in signing great young players it would take a few years of selling 1 to buy to before we built a quality team
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 22, 2020, 05:15:25 PM

He’s like a new signing...




No need to edit my spelling, bro, I meant to write Avi... the original legend had Ridge thinking he was called Avi iirc, and then realising his mistake, started ending his posts with “take care, Vidge” which was rather amusing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 12:48:27 AM
It's the new season mate. I will try and behave this time.  As for new signing I'd like nothing more than to sign Doucore AND Allan.  Mainly to help Gylfi to be the player he once was.  Anyone remember England v Iceland?

Take care, Ari in Iceland.
Ari is back shit just got real

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Silas on August 23, 2020, 12:51:44 AM
It's the new season mate. I will try and behave this time.  As for new signing I'd like nothing more than to sign Doucore AND Allan.  Mainly to help Gylfi to be the player he once was.  Anyone remember England v Iceland?

Take care, Ari in Iceland.
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He'll never be the player we need I'm afraid but if he stays we need to find some way for him to play
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 01:00:42 AM
I guess you're right.  I was hoping (because I'm from the same small town as he) that he couks be used from the bench.  Probably the best solution for everyone is that Koeman would take him away from us...?
He'll never be the player we need I'm afraid but if he stays we need to find some way for him to play

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Silas on August 23, 2020, 01:05:39 AM
I guess you're right.  I was hoping (because I'm from the same small town as he) that he couks be used from the bench.  Probably the best solution for everyone is that Koeman would take him away from us...?
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Yeah from the bench would be fine I don't think he would settle for that
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 01:22:33 AM
Yeah from the bench would be fine I don't think he would settle for that

People tend to think differently at 30 than they did at 27, and with 100 games to his belt who knows...?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 23, 2020, 01:23:11 AM
Captain's armband again. Not going anywhere is he?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Silas on August 23, 2020, 01:24:05 AM
Captain's armband again. Not going anywhere is he?

No I don't think so I'm hoping Ancelotti has some sort of plan for him but not sure on this one at all
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 23, 2020, 01:25:51 AM
Captain's armband again. Not going anywhere is he?

Nope.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 23, 2020, 01:28:15 AM
Yeah from the bench would be fine I don't think he would settle for that

After Silva FINALLY switched up the starting XI at game 9 (I believe), Gylfi didn't start a game after that until injuries forced him back in. And then later on when Gomes came back, it was basically "choose 2 out of Gomes/Gylfi/Davies." With Delph perpetually injured, Morgan off to France, and Gbamin of course in the med bay, who else was going to play midfield? I think he's smart enough to realize all of that, so with much better options (hopefully) ahead, he'll accept the bench. Just MO of course since I'm not inside his head lol.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 23, 2020, 01:34:17 AM
Captain's armband again. Not going anywhere is he?

He probably would do if anyone offered a decent fee, but again “if”...

He seems to be rated for tactical things by pretty much every manager we’ve had so he’s not going to be with the u23s for example.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 01:35:24 AM
Captain's armband again. Not going anywhere is he?

Hi Bluedylan, I think the best answer to that is that WE don't have anyone better.  Would you make Pickford captain?  bahhhh ;)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 23, 2020, 01:44:16 AM
Hi Bluedylan, I think the best answer to that is that WE don't have anyone better.  Would you make Pickford captain?  bahhhh ;)

Hi Ari, how are you, my friend? How's Iceland these days?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on August 23, 2020, 01:48:08 AM
Hi Ari, how are you, my friend? How's Iceland these days?

Proper expensive. Jibbed it off for Aldi these days.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 23, 2020, 02:05:08 AM
Can’t be arsed with watching him again.

Still going to be seeing a lot of him aren’t we.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on August 23, 2020, 02:16:55 AM
Siggy was never going anywhere.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Audrey Horne on August 23, 2020, 02:18:58 AM
I despise him
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on August 23, 2020, 02:21:08 AM
I dunno.

Surely if Allan and Doucourè come in he wont get in ahead of them?

Squad player at best. Doubt he will be sold.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 02:31:46 AM
That doesn't count because you once loved him.
I despise him

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on August 23, 2020, 02:39:30 AM
It's painful watching Carlo trying to turn Sig into the next Pirlo.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 23, 2020, 02:41:23 AM
We were never going to sell Sigurdsson this summer.

Schneiderlin is gone, Delph cant be relied on for more than a quarter of a season, Davies hasnt developed in 3 seasons, Gbamin has one leg, Gomes dislocated his ankle and has been poor. We seem to be after 2 new CMs but we still need other players who CAN at times offer something.

He's a massive flop for the price and just had the worst season of his career, so I get the feeling. But we cant just sack them all, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 23, 2020, 02:46:54 AM
I guess you're right.  I was hoping (because I'm from the same small town as he) that he couks be used from the bench.  Probably the best solution for everyone is that Koeman would take him away from us...?
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Haha have you really just suggested that Barcelona might want him? What in fucks name would they do with a playmaker who doesn’t want the ball. Best case is a Swansea or a Fulham. That was always his level. Debatable that he’s even capable of playing for a relegation candidate anymore though
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 23, 2020, 02:51:34 AM
We were never going to sell Sigurdsson this summer.

Schneiderlin is gone, Delph cant be relied on for more than a quarter of a season, Davies hasnt developed in 3 seasons, Gbamin has one leg, Gomes dislocated his ankle and has been poor. We seem to be after 2 new CMs but we still need other players who CAN at times offer something.

He's a massive flop for the price and just had the worst season of his career, so I get the feeling. But we cant just sack them all, unfortunately.

None of us want to hear it, but with the season being shortened by a full 5 weeks, and ending on time, they'll be squeezing 5 more games in there somewhere. Add in the festive season, guaranteed injuries, the 2 Cup tourneys, and the moronic int'l breaks, and all teams are going to need 4-6 midfielders.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 02:56:44 AM
Koeman more than Barcelona, after all Koeman bought him to Everton in the first place.  Even you can't deny that.
Haha have you really just suggested that Barcelona might want him? What in fucks name would they do with a playmaker who doesn't want the ball. Best case is a Swansea or a Fulham. That was always his level. Debatable that he's even capable of playing for a relegation candidate anymore though

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 03:02:47 AM
We were never going to sell Sigurdsson this summer.

Schneiderlin is gone, Delph cant be relied on for more than a quarter of a season, Davies hasnt developed in 3 seasons, Gbamin has one leg, Gomes dislocated his ankle and has been poor. We seem to be after 2 new CMs but we still need other players who CAN at times offer something.

He's a massive flop for the price and just had the worst season of his career, so I get the feeling. But we cant just sack them all, unfortunately.
In light of that comment.  GS was not bought to be a defensive midfielder or a winger.  How many defensive midfielders have failed Everton in the last few years?  Injuries included.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 23, 2020, 03:03:38 AM
Koeman more than Barcelona, after all Koeman bought him to Everton in the first place.  Even you can't deny that.
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Signing for Everton after a good season is a little different to signing for Barcelona after a shocking 1. There’s absolutely zero chance of him signing for Barcelona. The suggestion is beyond crazy
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on August 23, 2020, 03:03:54 AM
Dacoure thread this lads
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 23, 2020, 03:06:39 AM
Dacoure thread this lads

Sort of
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 23, 2020, 03:09:44 AM
Dacoure thread this lads

Olivier Dacoure?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 03:12:03 AM
Hi Ari, how are you, my friend? How's Iceland these days?

I ask again, would you make Pickford Captain? 

IMO, England number one playing for Everton has failed us.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 23, 2020, 03:15:26 AM
I ask again, would you make Pickford Captain? 

IMO, England number one playing for Everton has failed us.

God no. I wouldn't have him at the club if I had my way, but I accept it's not an easy window to get things done.

Why've you asked me this twice? D'you seem me as some kind of English nationalist?

Also, how the devil are you?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 03:19:39 AM
It's painful watching Carlo trying to turn Sig into the next Pirlo.

Now, that would be nice :)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 03:21:40 AM
God no. I wouldn't have him at the club if I had my way, but I accept it's not an easy window to get things done.

Why've you asked me this twice? D'you seem me as some kind of English nationalist?

Also, how the devil are you?

Twice, because you did not answer me in the first place.  I'm fine thanks :)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 03:28:17 AM
I'm only suggesting this because "you" (as in everyone) said that Koeman was crazy when he signed Sig in the first place.  What is telling you that HE (Koeman) is ok now?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 03:30:46 AM
Signing for Everton after a good season is a little different to signing for Barcelona after a shocking 1. There’s absolutely zero chance of him signing for Barcelona. The suggestion is beyond crazy

I'm only suggesting this because "you" (as in everyone) said that Koeman was crazy when he signed Sig in the first place.  What is telling you that HE (Koeman) is ok now?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on August 23, 2020, 03:35:13 AM
going to be seeing a lot of him aren't we.

That would be an upgrade on his usual invisible displays
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 23, 2020, 03:54:29 AM
I'm only suggesting this because "you" (as in everyone) said that Koeman was crazy when he signed Sig in the first place.  What is telling you that HE (Koeman) is ok now?

Again though signing sigurdsson for Everton after a good season at Swansea was a bit stupid. It’s a far cry from then watching him struggle and thinking he’s good enough for Barcelona
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 04:05:17 AM
Again though signing sigurdsson for Everton after a good season at Swansea was a bit stupid. It’s a far cry from then watching him struggle and thinking he’s good enough for Barcelona

And you're still talking about Koeman.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on August 23, 2020, 04:54:33 AM
Koeman isn’t even good enough for Barcelona.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 23, 2020, 06:45:43 AM
Koeman isn’t even good enough for Barcelona.


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He’s not even good enough for Everton.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 23, 2020, 02:19:19 PM
Captain's armband again. Not going anywhere is he?

Was it shop window like Besic and Bolasie ?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 23, 2020, 02:43:15 PM
Captain's armband again. Not going anywhere is he?

Think Ancelotti likes him. Think he likes Gomes as well.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on August 23, 2020, 02:49:23 PM
Ancelotti knows he can’t do all the changes he needs in this window if sig plays 10 with two athletic midfielders behind him it will work in some games the guy still has quality hope to see either doucoure or Allan this week
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 23, 2020, 02:55:27 PM
I am sry to everyone for hijacking this Doucoure thread.  Pre season it is. 
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KingdingalingNL on August 23, 2020, 02:56:01 PM
Is there a Sig thread somewhere in which Doucoure is being discussed?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ally2 on August 23, 2020, 03:11:26 PM
Is there a Sig thread somewhere in which Doucoure is being discussed?

Sig is 'discussed' in every thread. That's the drill.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on August 23, 2020, 03:34:25 PM
Sigurdsson. Amortisation. Get it into your heads FFS.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 23, 2020, 04:13:22 PM
Koeman isn’t even good enough for Barcelona.


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Nowhere near. He’s not remotely good enough for us. He is too good to think sigurdsson is good enough for Barcelona though.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on August 23, 2020, 05:04:19 PM
https://twitter.com/_pauljoyce/status/1297473771406864384
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on August 23, 2020, 05:07:57 PM
https://twitter.com/_pauljoyce/status/1297473771406864384

Cant say fairer than that, fair play to him for getting on with it.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Free Agent on August 23, 2020, 06:14:53 PM
For someone who’s invisible on the pitch we do spend a lot of time talking about him.


( Sig obviously, not the subject of this thread).
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 23, 2020, 06:16:38 PM
Cant say fairer than that, fair play to him for getting on with it.



So ruddy, bloody brave.




Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on August 23, 2020, 07:52:11 PM
So ruddy, bloody brave.






Too much mustard gets up your nose? Nonsense!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 23, 2020, 08:24:27 PM
Could of sworn there was a Sigurdsson thread somewhere ?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 23, 2020, 08:33:17 PM
Could of sworn there was a Sigurdsson thread somewhere ?

I think I saw it near the Michael Keane thread pointing at the Coleman thread.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 23, 2020, 08:57:27 PM
Too much mustard gets up your nose? Nonsense!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on August 23, 2020, 10:31:56 PM
Has this lad signed yet? No? Pfft
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 24, 2020, 12:08:32 AM
Could of sworn there was a Sigurdsson thread somewhere ?

I think it's 2 aisles down from the Dacoure thread.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 24, 2020, 12:10:08 AM
Has this lad signed yet? No? Pfft

Not going to be absolutist but.........
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on August 24, 2020, 12:23:17 AM
Not going to be absolutist but.........

You need to have a look at the Summer Transfer thread and find the Bingo Card. 😉
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on August 24, 2020, 03:54:58 AM
I think it's 2 aisles down from the Dacoure thread.
Yeah but it should be removed from the shelf. Past its Best Buy date.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 24, 2020, 04:01:21 AM
Yeah but it should be removed from the shelf. Past its Best Buy date.


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Nah, cod is typically salted.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Goaljira on August 24, 2020, 09:10:04 AM
Nah, cod is typically salted.

And vinegared.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Free Agent on August 24, 2020, 01:40:34 PM
And vinegared.

Battered
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on August 24, 2020, 02:37:09 PM
Thanks for the update lads.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on August 25, 2020, 08:01:43 PM
Swerve

https://twitter.com/ALANMYERSMEDIA/status/1298240562206736389

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on August 25, 2020, 08:24:14 PM
Swerve

https://twitter.com/ALANMYERSMEDIA/status/1298240562206736389
Every transfer is difficult and complex, that’s why not many deals get done early in the window. Watford will eventually budge on that valuation.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 25, 2020, 08:28:45 PM
Do we still have a chunk of the richarlison money to pay?

I imagine that might come into the equation.

Pay £35m and we'll write off the remaining richy money

We'll pay £20 and pay off what we already owe
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mac934 on August 25, 2020, 08:42:04 PM
Every transfer is difficult and complex, that’s why not many deals get done early in the window. Watford will eventually budge on that valuation.


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Or the Siggurdson syndrome will take effect and we will bow down to their extortionate fee just to get him at the last minute.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on August 25, 2020, 08:46:20 PM
No ‘Myers knows nothing’ shouts yet? FFS people are slipping
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 25, 2020, 09:03:56 PM
Every transfer is difficult and complex, that’s why not many deals get done early in the window. Watford will eventually budge on that valuation.


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Our needs have been obvious for months, you're right but these things should have been worked on long before now.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Paddockoldie on August 25, 2020, 09:22:17 PM
Or the Siggurdson syndrome will take effect and we will bow down to their extortionate fee just to get him at the last minute.

Our need for a proven prem midfielder is greater than our desire to not get fleeced. Can you imagine another season with that midfield? You only survive for so long when the rest of the division improves more than you do. We've been fortunate for a few seasons now.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on August 25, 2020, 09:35:41 PM
Fucking hate Alan Myers, not just because he knows nothing but basically because he is an absolute weapons grade bell end.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 25, 2020, 09:44:19 PM
Our needs have been obvious for months, you're right but these things should have been worked on long before now.

But how though? You can't do any of this before the window opens except identify who you want to talk to. The window's been open for 4 weeks and outside of Chelsea no one's signed shit.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 25, 2020, 09:50:20 PM
Our need for a proven prem midfielder is greater than our desire to not get fleeced. Can you imagine another season with that midfield? You only survive for so long when the rest of the division improves more than you do. We've been fortunate for a few seasons now.

I have literally no clue, but does anyone know if the rest of teams who've improved (debatable tbh) were also saddled with nearly £1m in useless p/w to deal with? I think people have greatly underestimated just how bad a position the 2015-2018 years left us in.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 25, 2020, 10:10:12 PM
The thing is we need midfielders but we don’t necessarily need the 2 we are currently bidding for. I’d argue Watford and Napoli need rid of them more than we need the individuals. I’d sooner we made other plans than got fleeced

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 25, 2020, 10:59:18 PM
But how though? You can't do any of this before the window opens except identify who you want to talk to. The window's been open for 4 weeks and outside of Chelsea no one's signed shit.

You can negotiate a transfer prior to a window opening it just can't be "sealed" until it does.

You can talk to these clubs and agree a fee etc. Players can even sign pre contract agreements.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 25, 2020, 11:02:02 PM
You can negotiate a transfer prior to a window opening it just can't be "sealed" until it does.

You can talk to these clubs and agree a fee etc. Players can even sign pre contract agreements.

Can you? I thought that was in violation of the rules or something. Like, sure, Chelsea signed Ziyech before they actually got him, but they did so during the Jan. window with a July 1 start date.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 25, 2020, 11:06:33 PM
Can you? I thought that was in violation of the rules or something. Like, sure, Chelsea signed Ziyech before they actually got him, but they did so during the Jan. window with a July 1 start date.

Chelsea signed Werner before the window was officially open.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 25, 2020, 11:07:54 PM
Can you? I thought that was in violation of the rules or something. Like, sure, Chelsea signed Ziyech before they actually got him, but they did so during the Jan. window with a July 1 start date.

Nah, you can negotiate and sign players at any point in the year. It just won't be ratified and won't go through until the window kicks in.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 25, 2020, 11:09:37 PM
Chelsea signed Werner before the window was officially open.
Nah, you can negotiate and sign players at any point in the year. It just won't be ratified and won't go through until the window kicks in.

Huh, ok then. Learn summat new every day. (did I use summat the right way? been itching for a chance to work that in somehow)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 25, 2020, 11:11:28 PM
The thing is we need midfielders but we don’t necessarily need the 2 we are currently bidding for. I’d argue Watford and Napoli need rid of them more than we need the individuals. I’d sooner we made other plans than got fleeced



But potentially missing out on top targets by haggling over a few million is ridiculous.

You're always going to overpay for the players you really want.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 25, 2020, 11:17:12 PM
The thing is we need midfielders but we don’t necessarily need the 2 we are currently bidding for. I’d argue Watford and Napoli need rid of them more than we need the individuals. I’d sooner we made other plans than got fleeced

So now I have a dilemma, Carlo says we need them but KNT says we don’t, who to believe ? 😂😜
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 25, 2020, 11:18:26 PM
But potentially missing out on top targets by haggling over a few million is ridiculous.

You're always going to overpay for the players you really want.
Never know how it'll work out but Maghales is a prime example, had the deal done and dusted. We then went back to renegotiate the deal and it opened the door for others, appears Arsenal are now about to sign him for the fee we agreed months ago. If he's a player you want just get it done when you have the opportunity

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 25, 2020, 11:19:24 PM
If you trust Brands and Ancelotti more than Walsh and Koeman then you really shouldn't worry about being fleeced.

If Doucoure and Allan are the midfielders Carlo wants then I really couldn't care less what we end up paying.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Thornton_19 on August 25, 2020, 11:39:30 PM
If you trust Brands and Ancelotti more than Walsh and Koeman then you really shouldn't worry about being fleeced.

If Doucoure and Allan are the midfielders Carlo wants then I really couldn't care less what we end up paying.
We should care if it stops us going after other targets.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 25, 2020, 11:42:56 PM
We should care if it stops us going after other targets.

How would we know that though?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 25, 2020, 11:49:37 PM
We should care if it stops us going after other targets.

I'd like to hope a few million isn't the decider in that or we have bigger problems.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Thornton_19 on August 25, 2020, 11:50:35 PM
I'd like to hope a few million isn't the decider in that or we have bigger problems.
A few million over two transfers ends up being 10 million doesnt it. That could be the difference.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Thornton_19 on August 25, 2020, 11:52:01 PM
How would we know that though?
We can take an educated guess that we dont want to blow all our money on 2 transfers. When we need 4 or 5 players.

Its like paying £50 for a Maccies just because we are starving.

'Just pay it' isnt a good way to exist.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 25, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
A few million over two transfers ends up being 10 million doesnt it. That could be the difference.

Again though, I'd like to hope the ownership would cover that considering they now actually do have a manager worth backing.

Even so though, if you're haggling over 5m or less for (what feels like) weeks, either pay it or move on.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Thornton_19 on August 25, 2020, 11:55:13 PM
Again though, I'd like to hope the ownership would cover that considering they now actually do have a manager worth backing.

Even so though, if you're haggling over 5m or less for (what feels like) weeks, either pay it or move on.
FFP will be the issue not what we can spend.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 26, 2020, 12:02:15 AM
But potentially missing out on top targets by haggling over a few million is ridiculous.

You're always going to overpay for the players you really want.

Overpaying for players who’s clubs actually want to sell is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 26, 2020, 12:03:13 AM
So now I have a dilemma, Carlo says we need them but KNT says we don’t, who to believe ? 😂😜

Them 2 midfielders? It’s them 2 or we are fucked?? Better pay whatever it takes then
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 26, 2020, 12:04:59 AM
How would we know that though?

Because money isn’t unlimited. If we pay a premium for all our transfers it’s logical that we sign less players in the long term

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on August 26, 2020, 12:06:21 AM
Overpaying for players who's clubs actually want to sell is ridiculous.
Come on then who would you sign some young unproven talent who you will be slating them a month into the season a la kean
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 26, 2020, 12:07:07 AM
Again though, I'd like to hope the ownership would cover that considering they now actually do have a manager worth backing.

Even so though, if you're haggling over 5m or less for (what feels like) weeks, either pay it or move on.

I agree we should move on if we aren’t willing to match their valuations. Staggered that people are suggesting we shouldn’t seek to get good value though.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 26, 2020, 12:07:23 AM
Because money isn’t unlimited. If we pay a premium for all our transfers it’s logical that we sign less players in the long term

Right but we have no idea if signing those players stops us from going after other players. Maybe we didn't want to go after any other players. It's literally impossible to make that assumption.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 26, 2020, 12:07:45 AM
Overpaying for players who’s clubs actually want to sell is ridiculous.

Ok then I'll rephrase, call it "willing to compromise"

If a club demands 30 for a player and you've offered 20. If they're completely unwilling to budge it's not a massive stretch to try and meet in the middle at 25.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 26, 2020, 12:08:16 AM
I agree we should move on if we aren’t willing to match their valuations. Staggered that people are suggesting we shouldn’t seek to get good value though.



Value is subjective, especially with footballers.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 26, 2020, 12:08:54 AM
Come on then who would you sign some young unproven talent who you will be slating them a month into the season a la kean

No I’d drive a hard bargain for the players we want. Players who want to play here who’s clubs want to sell. Napoli and Watford aren’t in the driving seat we are. Let’s not just pay a few million extra cos it’s not our money.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 26, 2020, 12:10:21 AM
Right but we have no idea if signing those players stops us from going after other players. Maybe we didn't want to go after any other players. It's literally impossible to make that assumption.

You think ancelotti thinks we are them 2 players away from the perfect squad? If we could get them 2 for 20m we’d spend the rest elsewhere
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 26, 2020, 12:11:27 AM
End of the day, if you decide to deal with De Laurentiis and the Pozzos, you should already know what you're in for.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 26, 2020, 12:13:03 AM
Value is subjective, especially with footballers.

Not really in this case. If brands values someone at 20m and we just pay extra to get it done then brands doesn’t believe we are getting value. So it only works long term is brands is wrong on his original valuations.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 26, 2020, 12:13:06 AM
FFP will be the issue not what we can spend.

FFP is a joke, that much has been proved.

Besides it's safe to assume we're not going to bring in any more than 3-4 players this summer, I doubt paying a little more on a couple of them would make a big difference.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 26, 2020, 12:13:06 AM
End of the day, if you decide to deal with De Laurentiis and the Pozzos, you should already know what you're in for.

Which I’m sure we do.

It’s ADL moaning that people are trying to get good deals, which of course is exactly what he’s doing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 26, 2020, 12:13:43 AM
You think ancelotti thinks we are them 2 players away from the perfect squad? If we could get them 2 for 20m we’d spend the rest elsewhere

I don't know what Ancelotti thinks so I don't speculate on it. I just trust him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 26, 2020, 12:13:54 AM
Other thing slowing things down is that we’ve probably got room for one decent incoming wage, which will be earmarked for Allan.

Until others go out the fees are currently an irrelevance
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 26, 2020, 12:14:20 AM
Not really in this case. If brands values someone at 20m and we just pay extra to get it done then brands doesn’t believe we are getting value. So it only works long term is brands is wrong on his original valuations.

To improve we should be looking at signing players who are the best, if not amongst the best at their respective clubs. The clubs in question will likely always value the player higher than we do.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 26, 2020, 12:15:34 AM
I don't know what Ancelotti thinks so I don't speculate on it. I just trust him.

Come on we know he doesn’t think we are 2 midfielders away from perfection. The better value we get the more players we’d sign because everyone knows we need more than 2 players
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 26, 2020, 12:17:21 AM
To improve we should be looking at signing players who are the best, if not amongst the best at their respective clubs. The clubs in question will likely always value the player higher than we do.

Maybe but Allan doesn’t fit that description (least not in napoli’s opinion) and Watford need to shift some good players cos they were relegated. These aren’t players we are trying to tempt a club to sell. They want to sell them
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 26, 2020, 12:19:16 AM
We’ve obviously made a rod for our own back with the past 3-4 years worth of deals.

But if we knocked £1-2m on average off every player we signed it’d be a decent whack.

We’ve got to start at some point (and we generally have since Brands has been here and the remit changed a bit) to not look like dependable mugs who can be relied on for an extra £5m to any selling team.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 26, 2020, 12:20:43 AM
Maybe but Allan doesn’t fit that description (least not in napoli’s opinion) and Watford need to shift some good players cos they were relegated. These aren’t players we are trying to tempt a club to sell. They want to sell them

Seems like Napoli aren't exactly very flexible in negotiating and with our recent history I doubt Watford are particularly interested in giving us a fair deal either.

So if these 2 are the players you really want you either bend a little or you move on.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 26, 2020, 12:24:13 AM
If Watford want £35m for Doucoure (reportedly), just move on and leave them with an unhappy, overpriced player.

I'm sorry but if your talent identification can't find equal or better alternatives for similar or less money, something is going very wrong in our recruitment. 
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on August 26, 2020, 12:33:43 AM
If Watford want £35m for Doucoure (reportedly), just move on and leave them with an unhappy, overpriced player.

I'm sorry but if your talent identification can't find equal or better alternatives for similar or less money, something is going very wrong in our recruitment. 

Yep, we haven't got time to mess about and haggle over the price, season starts in 2 weeks. Just make them an offer, if they reject then move on to other targets, assuming we have others, criminal if we don't.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on August 26, 2020, 12:35:03 AM
But potentially missing out on top targets by haggling over a few million is ridiculous.

You're always going to overpay for the players you really want.
It’s not a few million though, is it? If you believe certain reports, we’re still £20m shy of what they want, across both transfers.

And who’s to say we have that money?

And as been said many times before: didn’t overpaying get us in this mess in the first place?


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: toshyboy on August 26, 2020, 12:44:16 AM
People need to get real with transfer fees. No players are worth the inflated market values, but £35m for a player like doucoure I’d say is pretty standard. £15-£20m would be a steal which is why we are probably being told to fuck off. £35m is not a premium price these days it’s not far off the fees for Keane and Pickford respectively. Peterborough in league 1 want £10-15m for their striker ffs
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 26, 2020, 12:48:05 AM
Yep, we haven't got time to mess about and haggle over the price, season starts in 2 weeks. Just make them an offer, if they reject then move on to other targets, assuming we have others, criminal if we don't.

Whilst it’s better if we do get players in before the season starts there’s still another 3 weeks after that and we need to think of the next 3 years, not just those three weeks.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: fubarruk on August 26, 2020, 12:50:48 AM
People need to get real with transfer fees. No players are worth the inflated market values, but £35m for a player like doucoure I'd say is pretty standard. £15-£20m would be a steal which is why we are probably being told to fuck off. £35m is not a premium price these days it's not far off the fees for Keane and Pickford respectively. Peterborough in league 1 want £10-15m for their striker ffs
Chelsea spending over £50m on an average English LB isn't going to do anything to bring down the inflated fees either...

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 26, 2020, 12:53:02 AM
I really think we need to write this season off, in terms of expectations. I don't mean that in a depressing way, just a realistic way.

The window is weird because of Covid, so plans we might've had to overhaul quite a bit of the squad seem to be very difficult.

We're probably going to have to put up with pretty much last season's squad for the first few games, with the limitations that brings, and then if we do get a few in, you'd imagine it'd take a while for those players to get upto speed and integrate.

I genuinely think a Top 10 finish would be around par for this season, hopefully a decent effort at one of the cups, and then the season after could (in theory) be a better one, if the recruitment is better than it has been.

I know it's not what Everton fans want to think or hear (me as much as anyone) but we'd rather deal with reality over fantasy.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 26, 2020, 12:55:31 AM
People need to get real with transfer fees. No players are worth the inflated market values, but £35m for a player like doucoure I’d say is pretty standard. £15-£20m would be a steal which is why we are probably being told to fuck off. £35m is not a premium price these days it’s not far off the fees for Keane and Pickford respectively. Peterborough in league 1 want £10-15m for their striker ffs

35m for a player who’s dropped off from his best form 18 months ago from a side that need to move him on cos they were relegated. No one will pay that. It’s a crazy fee not a standard 1
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: indiantoffee1975 on August 26, 2020, 01:14:29 AM
Everton are likely to have Doucoure and Allan as there A targets and they'll probably scramble around on deadline day for B targets if they are unsuccessful with A.

Still of the opinion someone leaves before the deadline (not any deadwood) to fund other incomings.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on August 26, 2020, 01:17:16 AM
I really think we need to write this season off, in terms of expectations. I don't mean that in a depressing way, just a realistic way.

The window is weird because of Covid, so plans we might've had to overhaul quite a bit of the squad seem to be very difficult.

We're probably going to have to put up with pretty much last season's squad for the first few games, with the limitations that brings, and then if we do get a few in, you'd imagine it'd take a while for those players to get upto speed and integrate.

I genuinely think a Top 10 finish would be around par for this season, hopefully a decent effort at one of the cups, and then the season after could (in theory) be a better one, if the recruitment is better than it has been.

I know it's not what Everton fans want to think or hear (me as much as anyone) but we'd rather deal with reality over fantasy.

Probably right, but depressing to think that Richarlison’s time here will end on a season like that.

No way he’s still here if we finish 10th and are showing no progress, he’s already CL standard
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 26, 2020, 01:33:58 AM
Probably right, but depressing to think that Richarlison’s time here will end on a season like that.

No way he’s still here if we finish 10th and are showing no progress, he’s already CL standard

It is mate, but I guess it's football and our place in the food chain, and we'll get top dollar for him. Just hope Marcel has a succession plan in place, and some ideas for smart reinvestment.

As I've said previously, I'm trying to get less attached to individual players now. Unless we start seriously achieving things, they're always going to want to move on if they're of a certain quality, and smart reinvestment is probably our only realistic path to longterm improvement.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: toshyboy on August 26, 2020, 02:43:57 AM
35m for a player who's dropped off from his best form 18 months ago from a side that need to move him on cos they were relegated. No one will pay that. It's a crazy fee not a standard 1

Really? Think you’d be surprised, especially as we get closer to deadline. Can easily see a west Ham or Newcastle etc going in and paying it.

Realistically I can see them going for £25-28m with add ons, but we need to live quick. The more this is drawn out in the press with our “low ball” bids however, the higher the possibility somebody comes in to rival. It’s alright standing off in negotiations but it leaves the door open.

My point isn’t just about dacoure, it’s our business in general. Look at Gabriel could have had him tied up, but went back to the negotiating table and it cost us. It’s all very well being prudent etc, but sometimes you just need to get deals done before The competition arrives. All our transfers are constantly dragged out often in the press which doesn’t help
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 26, 2020, 02:51:14 AM
Never know how it'll work out but Maghales is a prime example, had the deal done and dusted. We then went back to renegotiate the deal and it opened the door for others, appears Arsenal are now about to sign him for the fee we agreed months ago. If he's a player you want just get it done when you have the opportunity

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This didn’t happen

Our deal was always on the table, sorted.

The delay offered Lille and his agent to sniff out a better offer and arsenal obliged.

For everyone saying why don’t we sort deals out earlier- this lad was done and dusted in February, then the bad thing happened and agents saw an opportunity.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: toshyboy on August 26, 2020, 02:55:14 AM
This didn't happen

Our deal was always on the table, sorted.

The delay offered Lille and his agent to sniff out a better offer and arsenal obliged.

For everyone saying why don't we sort deals out earlier- this lad was done and dusted in February, then the bad thing happened and agents saw an opportunity.

In your opinion. It’s widely reported we back to renegotiate a lower fee
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 26, 2020, 02:56:30 AM
This didn’t happen

Our deal was always on the table, sorted.

The delay offered Lille and his agent to sniff out a better offer and arsenal obliged.

For everyone saying why don’t we sort deals out earlier- this lad was done and dusted in February, then the bad thing happened and agents saw an opportunity.



How do you know that's true either?

Anything I saw that hinted it was more or less agreed seemed to suggest it was Everton that tried to renegotiate.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Simon Paul on August 26, 2020, 03:34:21 AM
The Duke wants Everton and has agreed a deal after being given permission to talk. Just need clubs to agree on value of the deal.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 26, 2020, 03:41:40 AM
The Duke wants Everton and has agreed a deal after being given permission to talk. Just need clubs to agree on value of the deal.
Isn't that the issue though and they're miles apart?

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 26, 2020, 03:43:14 AM
Isn't that the issue though and they're miles apart?

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If he's been given permission to talk to us then surely they aren't that far apart?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cereal Killer on August 26, 2020, 03:47:18 AM
Maybe we have moved on to other targets? Which is why nothing is “happening” Just because the media are still shouting on about the same 2 transfers over and over, and plebs on Twitter just rehash these stories with slightly changed words, offering nothing different everyday, doesn’t mean we aren’t looking elsewhere

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 26, 2020, 03:52:36 AM
Maybe we have moved on to other targets? Which is why nothing is “happening” Just because the media are still shouting on about the same 2 transfers over and over, and plebs on Twitter just rehash these stories with slightly changed words, offering nothing different everyday, doesn’t mean we aren’t looking elsewhere

 :thumbsup:

Maybe aswell but Alan Myers is one of the very few on twitter who I would trust.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 26, 2020, 03:52:44 AM
If he's been given permission to talk to us then surely they aren't that far apart?
I could be wrong, but I'm not sure it goes that route where the club has to give permission for him to negotiate terms. I would've thought that would have been done ages ago through his agent, sound him out, work out his requirements to see if it's feasible, then progress the deal?

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 26, 2020, 03:56:00 AM
I could be wrong, but I'm not sure it goes that route where the club has to give permission for him to negotiate terms. I would've thought that would have been done ages ago through his agent, sound him out, work out his requirements to see if it's feasible, then progress the deal?

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Yes everything usually sorted with agents befor these days.

But everyone still seems too go through the routine of making it seem like clubs agree > player able to discuss.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cereal Killer on August 26, 2020, 03:56:13 AM
Maybe aswell but Alan Myers is one of the very few on twitter who I would trust.

Didn’t Brands come out recently and say he was frustrated with things being leaked early and other clubs jumping in? We aren’t (hopefully) going to blab every potential deal to a media source
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 26, 2020, 04:08:42 AM
Didn't Brands come out recently and say he was frustrated with things being leaked early and other clubs jumping in? We aren't (hopefully) going to blab every potential deal to a media source
Leaked early? It looks like we start negotiations when they're rising stars and conclude them when they're near retirement age, something is gonna get leaked during that time.
Although I wonder if that's why Brands goes for players under 26, otherwise they could be retired or dead by the time the deal gets done!!

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on August 26, 2020, 04:22:40 AM
This Doucouré transfer target just digress us from what we really need.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: MmmblueBernard on August 26, 2020, 04:29:25 AM
This Doucouré transfer target just digress us from what we really need.

Which is?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on August 26, 2020, 04:34:30 AM
Which is?

Minimum: Two defensive midfielders and possibly a right back. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Doucouré is an out and out defensive midfielder. His best strength is scoring goals with a worse goal return record than Sigurdsson.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 26, 2020, 04:48:49 AM
Leaked early? It looks like we start negotiations when they're rising stars and conclude them when they're near retirement age, something is gonna get leaked during that time.
Although I wonder if that's why Brands goes for players under 26, otherwise they could be retired or dead by the time the deal gets done!!

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Legit belly laughed.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 26, 2020, 04:55:45 AM
Passing on a message - “Everton #EFC said no to Branthwaite. They see him as adequate cover and want him to train under Ancelotti. Doucouré was called away from training today by Giaretta. Unnamed club are about to have a bid accepted for a fee rising to £28m.”

From a supposed Watford ITK.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 26, 2020, 05:04:52 AM
Rising to 28 then ey.

I mean it's a bad buy tbh, but we seem to be in Get Results Immediately and Rebuild in a Few Years Mode don't we.

Probably not great timing with the stadium, but maybe that's the point.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 26, 2020, 01:12:25 PM
Rising to 28 then ey.

I mean it's a bad buy tbh, but we seem to be in Get Results Immediately and Rebuild in a Few Years Mode don't we.

Probably not great timing with the stadium, but maybe that's the point.

Yes.

Think someone/ everyone has looked at it and realised we’ve been rubbish for 6 seasons by and large.

With Moyes/ first year of RM we at least had the selling point of being the club just outside of the top group so a base guarantee of playing in a decent team.

That way either the team (if lucky) would move into that group. or if the individual played well, those teams above us wouldn’t see it as a massive leap for the individual to play well in their team/ at their level.

Right now I’m struggling to sell us bar CA (and a bit more dough).

I obviously agree with the younger players longer term idea but looking at the above, if it took 3 years to work out, that would he nearly 10 years with one, maybe two decent seasons. And that’s if it works out.

And I suppose the other thing is if your placing a bet on some here and now players, were probably in our best place manager wise than we’d ever be.

If we assume that we want CA longer term, and that CA wants to be somewhere longer term (he’s said that and his book from a couple of years ago says that too) then the downside of older players isn’t as pronounced as we can replace them more organically, rather than a new manager coming in and needing their own players who might not fit.

And there’s your midweek positive outlook podcast :)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 26, 2020, 01:20:23 PM
It makes a difference when 2 out of the 3 “old” players are CL level players and the other EL level that can likely progress to CL level inside 12 months.

Gives our young midfielders room to breathe and also gives us 2yrs to find elite level potential and actually go on to sign elite level potential as our midfield will already be CL ready.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 26, 2020, 02:55:29 PM
Yes.

Think someone/ everyone has looked at it and realised we’ve been rubbish for 6 seasons by and large.

With Moyes/ first year of RM we at least had the selling point of being the club just outside of the top group so a base guarantee of playing in a decent team.

That way either the team (if lucky) would move into that group. or if the individual played well, those teams above us wouldn’t see it as a massive leap for the individual to play well in their team/ at their level.

Right now I’m struggling to sell us bar CA (and a bit more dough).

I obviously agree with the younger players longer term idea but looking at the above, if it took 3 years to work out, that would he nearly 10 years with one, maybe two decent seasons. And that’s if it works out.

And I suppose the other thing is if your placing a bet on some here and now players, were probably in our best place manager wise than we’d ever be.

If we assume that we want CA longer term, and that CA wants to be somewhere longer term (he’s said that and his book from a couple of years ago says that too) then the downside of older players isn’t as pronounced as we can replace them more organically, rather than a new manager coming in and needing their own players who might not fit.

And there’s your midweek positive outlook podcast :)

It makes a difference when 2 out of the 3 “old” players are CL level players and the other EL level that can likely progress to CL level inside 12 months.

Gives our young midfielders room to breathe and also gives us 2yrs to find elite level potential and actually go on to sign elite level potential as our midfield will already be CL ready.

Agree with both, and think it makes the Ancelotti plan look a bit clearer, which is : raise the standards at the club immediately. If that means paying over here and there and handling later then so be it, but raise standards now.

He isn't going to spend 4 years building, but he might spend two being decent and two building.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 26, 2020, 03:47:59 PM
Agree with both, and think it makes the Ancelotti plan look a bit clearer, which is : raise the standards at the club immediately. If that means paying over here and there and handling later then so be it, but raise standards now.

He isn't going to spend 4 years building, but he might spend two being decent and two building.

I reckon it’s quickly been figured out that if we’re not in a European comp then there’s literally no point in offering deals to the pre-elites. They have nowhere to showcase their talent apart from a few mins on motd (slightly OTT but you get my point).

Whereas if they sign for a lower tier CL or good EL side they’re getting their proper move by the end of their Everton contract.

We talk about the RBL model in Germany. I kinda think they’re Southampton in the PL. signing young players and making a WHOPPING profit off them 2yrs later. I think our boys at the top are looking more toward the Dortmund model where you can sign some proper big players as well as hoovering up young talent (but actually playing them, not the Chelsea version) and making some wedge off them. Plus a trophy now and again.   
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 26, 2020, 03:48:55 PM
Did I just coin the phrase “pre-elites”? I prefer that to “wonderkid”.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 26, 2020, 06:47:11 PM
Did I just coin the phrase “pre-elites”? I prefer that to “wonderkid”.

FM20 is very, very unhappy with you.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 27, 2020, 02:59:59 AM
https://twitter.com/manulonjon/status/1298652150109810691?s=

This guy seems to be a French “transfer expert”.

Says Monaco have bid €25m

Would be surprised
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 27, 2020, 03:56:45 AM
https://twitter.com/saberdesfa/status/1298723969889996800?s=

This French transfer “expert” confirming again that Doucouré only wants to come to us.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 27, 2020, 04:16:36 AM
This thread

(https://media.giphy.com/media/gqDIOYUKHrNBK/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee1 on August 27, 2020, 04:54:01 PM
Local papers latest take on this one.

https://twitter.com/Observer_Owl/status/1298921074776772608
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bigmanbob on August 27, 2020, 05:03:43 PM
I get the impression the player isn't the problem - he's seen the wages and thought, I'll have me some of that - it's Watford trying to squeeze us for every penny they can get
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee1 on August 27, 2020, 05:10:00 PM
I get he impression the player isn't the problem - he's seen the wages and thought, I'll have me some of that - it's Watford trying to squeeze us for every penny they can get

That is it in a nutshell, in my opinion, once the fees are acceptable to both parties, this transfer and Allen's will be concluded quickly. However, it is as @Bluedylan (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3747) posted previously, not a smooth process when dealing with the owners of Napoli and Watford, which is their prerogative, I suppose.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 27, 2020, 05:34:07 PM
That is it in a nutshell, in my opinion, once the fees are acceptable to both parties, this transfer and Allen's will be concluded quickly. However, it is as @Bluedylan (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3747) posted previously, not a smooth process when dealing with the owners of the Napoli and Watford, which is their prerogative, I suppose.
Agree, we would be more than happy if our owners had the same attitude.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Blue Lagoon on August 27, 2020, 06:23:36 PM
Watford aren’t in a good position to play hard ball here though. They’ve just been relegated, most likely need the money, the player wants out and if reports are true he only has his sights set on Everton.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on August 27, 2020, 06:30:31 PM
Watford aren’t in a good position to play hard ball here though. They’ve just been relegated, most likely need the money, the player wants out and if reports are true he only has his sights set on Everton.


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Yes although as with Napoli they know that we’re desperate for midfielders and the season is only two weeks away so they’ll be prepared to see if we’ll buckle a bit earlier.

Also there’s an extension to the transfer window for purchases between the PL and EFL so the actual deadline for this is 6/7 weeks off.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on August 27, 2020, 07:29:15 PM
Yes although as with Napoli they know that we’re desperate for midfielders and the season is only two weeks away so they’ll be prepared to see if we’ll buckle a bit earlier.

Also there’s an extension to the transfer window for purchases between the PL and EFL so the actual deadline for this is 6/7 weeks off.

Fuck. Guaranteed to take that long then, or my name isn't Django!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Discostu on August 27, 2020, 08:23:24 PM
What a world it would be to send sig and Davies straight to Watford.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 27, 2020, 08:36:09 PM
Think I'd keep Tom Davies around as a decent 5th midfielder type option, who could still develop if he worked and trained with better midfielders.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 27, 2020, 09:44:06 PM
Think I'd keep Tom Davies around as a decent 5th midfielder type option, who could still develop if he worked and trained with better midfielders.

Allan
Doucoure
James
Gomes
Gbamin

















Delph
Sigurdsson
Davies

(I know I'm assuming all 3 acquisitions, but if they do in fact happen, those bottom 3 shouldn't see the pitch)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on August 27, 2020, 09:52:20 PM
Allan
Doucoure
James
Gomes
Gbamin

















Delph
Sigurdsson
Davies

(I know I'm assuming all 3 acquisitions, but if they do in fact happen, those bottom 3 shouldn't see the pitch)

I agree but Delph is in a category of his own in my mind. I think he could do a job in some games, but wouldn't want him in my first XI. I think surrounded by better players, he could be alright. Davies and Siggy are both just binnable though, if thats a word.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: hannu on August 27, 2020, 09:56:51 PM
I agree but Delph is in a category of his own in my mind. I think he could do a job in some games, but wouldn't want him in my first XI. I think surrounded by better players, he could be alright. Davies and Siggy are both just binnable though, if thats a word.

Delph is dead to me, awful player awful person
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 27, 2020, 09:58:13 PM
Davies well above Sigurdsson and Delph for me.

I mean, where the fuck is Fabian Delph for one. Not been training and wasn’t in the squad for the Blackpool game.

Sigurdsson is completely finished.

Davies is at least young and fit most of the time.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 27, 2020, 09:58:54 PM
Allan
Doucoure
James
Gomes
Gbamin

















Delph
Sigurdsson
Davies

(I know I'm assuming all 3 acquisitions, but if they do in fact happen, those bottom 3 shouldn't see the pitch)

Don’t count on it, mate.

Gbamin is already a crock, and you can probably count on Allan to pull a hammy, and James’ achilles to explode before October.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 27, 2020, 09:59:53 PM
With 5 years extra experience behind him, i'm refusing to believe Gomes is superior to Davies.
And i barely accept that Gbamin exists. What i do know for a fact, is that you haven't seen anywhere near enough of him to make a judgement call on whether he is any good.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 27, 2020, 10:01:35 PM
Don’t count on it, mate.

Gbamin is already a crock, and you can probably count on Allan to pull a hammy, and James’ achilles to explode before October.

Behave, you.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on August 27, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
Allan
Doucoure
James
Gomes
Gbamin

















Delph
Sigurdsson
Davies

(I know I'm assuming all 3 acquisitions, but if they do in fact happen, those bottom 3 shouldn't see the pitch)

I'd see James as more of a RW option hopefully.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 27, 2020, 10:33:28 PM
Davies well above Sigurdsson and Delph for me.

I mean, where the fuck is Fabian Delph for one. Not been training and wasn’t in the squad for the Blackpool game.

Sigurdsson is completely finished.

Davies is at least young and fit most of the time.

The only way I can imagine Davies ever being better than Sig or Delph before they retire is if both of them get their legs amputated and even then it would be close.

Davies does have youth on his side, but certainly doesnt have ability
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on August 27, 2020, 10:34:16 PM
I would keep delph to cover left full in case we don’t sign anyone there Davies out with sig don’t see anyone buying either I’m afraid we have so much shite to shift
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on August 27, 2020, 10:39:47 PM
The only way I can imagine Davies ever being better than Sig or Delph before they retire is if both of them get their legs amputated and even then it would be close.

Davies does have youth on his side, but certainly doesnt have ability

He has ability and he’s shown it here.

He’s been a victim of a club with a scatter gun strategy that goes from Roberto Martinez to Sam Allardyce within two years.

Not trying to make excuses for him but we’ve held his development back massively.

He should’ve had a year out on loan but because our midfield has been a mess for the last four years we’ve had to keep him playing a million different roles and he hasn’t been able to show what type of player he is.

Hopefully now we have a good manager who we’re hoping is here for four years at least, he’ll tie down what type of player he is and we might see him become a good player.

The other two are finished. One can’t stay fit, the other doesn’t want to have the football.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: youngysenior on August 27, 2020, 10:50:29 PM
FFS give it a rest, I am depressed enough.
Don't count on it, mate.

Gbamin is already a crock, and you can probably count on Allan to pull a hammy, and James' achilles to explode before October.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: toshyboy on August 27, 2020, 10:56:46 PM
Fully expect Delph to still be here, given his versatility and as left back cover to give nkounkou and gbamin a year to settle in and get fit, before going to MLS. If all 3 signings come Off in midfield can’t see us getting a left back even on loan, with the kid and Delph in the squad. Can see Davies going on loan and Siggy sold subject to a buyer. No problem with Delph as a cover player
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 27, 2020, 11:07:47 PM
He has ability and he's shown it here.

He's been a victim of a club with a scatter gun strategy that goes from Roberto Martinez to Sam Allardyce within two years.

Not trying to make excuses for him but we've held his development back massively.

He should've had a year out on loan but because our midfield has been a mess for the last four years we've had to keep him playing a million different roles and he hasn't been able to show what type of player he is.

Hopefully now we have a good manager who we're hoping is here for four years at least, he'll tie down what type of player he is and we might see him become a good player.

The other two are finished. One can't stay fit, the other doesn't want to have the football.

Aren't all those excuses you've listed exactly the same for Sig, or does he not get that cause he's older and cost 45 million?
He too has been played out of position in a disfunctional midfield, has numerous managers etc.
Look I'm not trying to defend Sig or Delph as I think neither are good enough but I think they get a harder deal than the likes of Davies as they're older, on more wages and cost x amount of money, but id still say 99.9% of mangers would pick them over Davies as they're better players.

We do need to invest in the future and on paper Davies falls into that, but I certainly haven't seen enough from him to say he warrants that investment or that it'll make that much of a difference, he's just not very good

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: MmmblueBernard on August 27, 2020, 11:37:14 PM
Davies biggest problem is that we coached out of him the thing that made him an effective footballer which was grit, determination and drive. Now thats gone, he doesnt have the skill to pay the bills and is ineffective.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Thornton_19 on August 27, 2020, 11:39:49 PM
Id much rather have Davies here than Sigurdsson, Delph and the like.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on August 27, 2020, 11:45:31 PM
Fuck Davies, I hope someone nicks his skateboard
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 27, 2020, 11:48:25 PM
Behave, you.

FFS give it a rest, I am depressed enough.
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Soz, gents; A bit of gallows humour, to cushion the inevitable blow 😬😁
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 28, 2020, 12:21:21 AM
Soz, gents; A bit of gallows humour, to cushion the inevitable blow 😬😁

Too late, I already tossed all my anti-depressants.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ally2 on August 28, 2020, 12:27:21 AM
Davies biggest problem is that we coached out of him the thing that made him an effective footballer which was grit, determination and drive. Now thats gone, he doesnt have the skill to pay the bills and is ineffective.

Now that is some world class nonsense
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 28, 2020, 12:28:03 AM
Id much rather have Davies here than Sigurdsson, Delph and the like.

The three of them can do one.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on August 28, 2020, 12:37:07 AM
Having a bevy in the Rubber Soul now, fella saw my Everton tatt and started chatting as we do like, anyway after telling me about his prostate problems, he said he works at Finch Farm, two medicals have been booked in this week at Pall Mall, one is for Doucoure. He's bought me a pint so is obviously genuine
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 28, 2020, 12:43:16 AM
Having a bevy in the Rubber Soul now, fella saw my Everton tatt and started chatting as we do like, anyway after telling me about his prostate problems, he said he works at Finch Farm, two medicals have been booked in this week at Pall Mall, one is for Doucoure. He's bought me a pint so is obviously genuine

I'm glad he led with the prostate issue.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: MmmblueBernard on August 28, 2020, 12:44:00 AM
Now that is some world class nonsense

Fair enough, its my opinion, but please do elaborate on the benefits of Tom Davies and what he actively contributes to team on a regular basis. Feel free to quote stats to back up your point....
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on August 28, 2020, 12:58:52 AM
I'm glad he led with the prostate issue.

Very important issue, he's on the mend though bless him
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 28, 2020, 01:03:08 AM
Has the skem butty van man been replaced by the Generous Rubber Soul Prostate Stranger?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on August 28, 2020, 01:05:12 AM
Has the skem butty van man been replaced by the Generous Rubber Soul Prostate Stranger?

Yes! Worrying thing is, my Everton tatt is on my arse, so he's obviously a bit of a perv
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on August 28, 2020, 01:12:39 AM
Fair enough, its my opinion, but please do elaborate on the benefits of Tom Davies and what he actively contributes to team on a regular basis. Feel free to quote stats to back up your point....

One thing he has more than most players is a desire to pass forwards, it doesn’t always work out but he’s definitely not a crab.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SBunching/status/1216072395792044033
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 28, 2020, 01:41:25 AM
One thing he has more than most players is a desire to pass forwards, it doesn’t always work out but he’s definitely not a crab.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SBunching/status/1216072395792044033

Does it matter if they don’t find their target
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 28, 2020, 01:54:26 AM
Yes! Worrying thing is, my Everton tatt is on my arse, so he's obviously a bit of a perv

Maybe he was just concerned about making sure you didn't suffer prostate problems like he did?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ally2 on August 28, 2020, 01:56:44 AM
Fair enough, its my opinion, but please do elaborate on the benefits of Tom Davies and what he actively contributes to team on a regular basis. Feel free to quote stats to back up your point....

Sorry mmmbluebernard. I agree. I think he's a bit rubbish but I don't agree that we have actively coached out of him his best attributes. Or who in particular did so. That doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on August 28, 2020, 02:22:52 AM
Latest odds

1/5

Carry on..
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on August 28, 2020, 03:23:50 AM
Does it matter if they don't find their target

I see your point but this is where playing in a dysfunctional side harms him, when you’ve got a number 10 in Gylfi who is hiding from the ball then you’re going to have worse passing accuracy if you try to pass forward.

Time will tell I suppose, but I find it mad that people want rid of him given he’s a homegrown player on about 25k p/w who will be happy to act as backup and can cover a variety of roles. The added upside is that he can potentially get better
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on August 28, 2020, 04:52:05 AM
Has the skem butty van man been replaced by the Generous Rubber Soul Prostate Stranger?

I’ll add it to next window’s Bingo Card
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: AllyBlue14 on August 28, 2020, 05:58:38 AM
Personally don't get the hate for Davies myself, especially given that he's just turned 22 and his entire professional career has come during the Koeman-Allardyce-Silva era.

If he can actually pin down his role (same could be said for most of our midfield, actually) and recapture the form he showed when he first came into the team, he'll be a useful asset.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Free Agent on August 28, 2020, 06:38:06 AM
Personally don't get the hate for Davies myself, especially given that he's just turned 22 and his entire professional career has come during the Koeman-Allardyce-Silva era.

If he can actually pin down his role (same could be said for most of our midfield, actually) and recapture the form he showed when he first came into the team, he'll be a useful asset.

Some folks just like to have whipping boy, I guess it makes them feel superior. The fact that he looks like a scrawny kid who goes about doing what he’s told to do without complaint just makes him an easy target.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 28, 2020, 06:58:02 AM
In 3 years time there is a much, much better chance that we will get a sizeable transfer fee for Davies when compared to what we may get for Delph or Sigurdsson.

Davies will be worth more at 27 than Gomes is now.

For that reason alone, you keep him and bin the others off.

Never mind he's playing in a position of the pitch (of the outfield ones) that takes the longest to mature into.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: hannu on August 28, 2020, 11:05:10 AM
In 3 years time there is a much, much better chance that we will get a sizeable transfer fee for Davies when compared to what we may get for Delph or Sigurdsson.

Davies will be worth more at 27 than Gomes is now.

For that reason alone, you keep him and bin the others off.

Never mind he's playing in a position of the pitch (of the outfield ones) that takes the longest to mature into.

only thing that would inflate davies price is he is english, dont get me wrong i want him to come good but he isnt doing enough atm
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 28, 2020, 11:17:19 AM
Some folks just like to have whipping boy, I guess it makes them feel superior. The fact that he looks like a scrawny kid who goes about doing what he’s told to do without complaint just makes him an easy target.

Yeah that’s it. I’ll be swaggering to my warehouse job now I’ve suggesting that multi millionaire Tom Davies should play his premier league football for a slightly lesser team. Couldn’t feel more superior now.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 28, 2020, 11:38:00 AM
Come on eh. Davies has gotten an easier ride than most, and rightly so because he's one of our own. But it's been 4 or 5 years and he just doesnt really do anything.

The Gomes comparison is especially daft, because he can on his day control the midfield and he was bought by the best team in the world on the basis of his potential. Can you imagine Barcelona buying Davies?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on August 28, 2020, 11:43:45 AM
Come on eh. Davies has gotten an easier ride than most, and rightly so because he's one of our own. But it's been 4 or 5 years and he just doesnt really do anything.

The Gomes comparison is especially daft, because he can on his day control the midfield and he was bought by the best team in the world on the basis of his potential. Can you imagine Barcelona buying Davies?

At Davies age Gomes had made 14 appearances in senior football after sitting in the Benfica B team for years
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: AllyBlue14 on August 28, 2020, 12:50:44 PM
Come on eh. Davies has gotten an easier ride than most, and rightly so because he's one of our own. But it's been 4 or 5 years and he just doesnt really do anything.

The Gomes comparison is especially daft, because he can on his day control the midfield and he was bought by the best team in the world on the basis of his potential. Can you imagine Barcelona buying Davies?

It hasn't necessarily been on here, but I've read FB/Twitter pages where Davies has been given a dog's abuse. Gomes started to cop some flak at the end of the season too, having just come back from seeing his foot ripped off.

Our midfield has needed work for a while now, but things looked a lot better when we had Gana in the middle. So just to segue back to the topic of the thread, a player like Doucoure (and/or Allan) might be exactly what Tom and Andre need to play their natural game.

Drop Usain Bolt into a 10,000 m race and say, "Just run fast," and he'd be awful. But put him where he belongs and at least give him the chance to shine.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bluenuck on August 28, 2020, 01:33:13 PM
Davies and doucoure are close. I can see why people are confused.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Craig_1878 on August 28, 2020, 02:13:04 PM
I wouldnt want to sell Davies yet,  he still has room to grow. He needs game time though which might be hard to come by, so i wouldn't mind seeing him going out on loan.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 28, 2020, 02:31:02 PM
I wouldnt want to sell Davies yet,  he still has room to grow. He needs game time though which might be hard to come by, so i wouldn't mind seeing him going out on loan.

He’s had 10,740 hours playing time with us and I can’t remember anything positive other than the Man City goal, otherwise just a series of poor passing, mis timed tackles and general lack of intelligence on the pitch.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on August 28, 2020, 02:33:17 PM
Yeah yeah yeah.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Craig_1878 on August 28, 2020, 02:39:52 PM
He’s had 10,740 hours playing time with us and I can’t remember anything positive other than the Man City goal, otherwise just a series of poor passing, mis timed tackles and general lack of intelligence on the pitch.

Great hair though.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on August 28, 2020, 02:44:27 PM
Davies biggest problem is that we coached out of him the thing that made him an effective footballer which was grit, determination and drive. Now thats gone, he doesnt have the skill to pay the bills and is ineffective.

Solid Beastie Boys reference there. Have a like.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 28, 2020, 02:51:42 PM
It hasn't necessarily been on here, but I've read FB/Twitter pages where Davies has been given a dog's abuse. Gomes started to cop some flak at the end of the season too, having just come back from seeing his foot ripped off.

Our midfield has needed work for a while now, but things looked a lot better when we had Gana in the middle. So just to segue back to the topic of the thread, a player like Doucoure (and/or Allan) might be exactly what Tom and Andre need to play their natural game.

Drop Usain Bolt into a 10,000 m race and say, "Just run fast," and he'd be awful. But put him where he belongs and at least give him the chance to shine.

Is Tom Davies or Andre Gomes Usain bolt in this?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 28, 2020, 02:59:19 PM
Great hair though.
He got that from his uncle, that’s the only gene they share though.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Free Agent on August 28, 2020, 04:09:25 PM
Davies and doucoure are close. I can see why people are confused.
Blame autocorrect
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on August 28, 2020, 06:12:15 PM
https://twitter.com/philkecho/status/1299302680737832960
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on August 28, 2020, 06:15:24 PM
Sandro, bolasie, Delph, Tosun. - take em all on loan
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: mikey_blue on August 28, 2020, 06:15:53 PM
https://twitter.com/philkecho/status/1299302680737832960

You can have any of them apart from James.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on August 28, 2020, 07:18:17 PM
They'll ask for Richy...
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 28, 2020, 07:28:32 PM
Sandro, bolasie, Delph, Tosun. - take em all on loan

On loan? That means they all be back in a season. Needs to be perm
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on August 28, 2020, 07:29:51 PM
Surely a season on loan for Davies would be good for all parties
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 28, 2020, 07:32:03 PM
Surely a season on loan for Davies would be good for all parties

Maybe not so good for the receiving party.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 28, 2020, 07:44:58 PM
On loan? That means they all be back in a season. Needs to be perm

They'll only be back to pack their bags before leaving...permanently.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on August 28, 2020, 07:55:15 PM
On loan? That means they all be back in a season. Needs to be perm
Sandro and Bolasie won’t. One more year of those pointless players.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on August 28, 2020, 07:55:55 PM
On loan? That means they all be back in a season. Needs to be perm

Nope, as at least two are at the end of their contracts
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 28, 2020, 07:58:14 PM
Ugh, forgot Tosun was through '22.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on August 28, 2020, 07:59:23 PM
Alan Myres now giving it the Monaco story....
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: AllyBlue14 on August 28, 2020, 08:00:05 PM
Is Tom Davies or Andre Gomes Usain bolt in this?

So do you think Davies and Gomes were played in their favoured roles/systems last season then? And Sigurdsson, for that matter, in the latter half of the season at least. Because other than being a bit better a being in midfield than other players in the squad, they looked ill-equipped for whatever it was they were supposed to be doing.

Play them alongside two of Doucoure/Allen/James (or players of their ilk) and I think it would give us a fairer sample from which to judge.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 28, 2020, 08:01:00 PM
So do you think Davies and Gomes were played in their favoured roles/systems last season then? And Sigurdsson, for that matter, in the latter half of the season at least. Because other than being a bit better a being in midfield than other players in the squad, they looked ill-equipped for whatever it was they were supposed to be doing.

Play them alongside two of Doucoure/Allen/James (or players of their ilk) and I think it would give us a fairer sample from which to judge.

I think they are all limited.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: AllyBlue14 on August 28, 2020, 08:09:31 PM
I think they are all limited.

I'm not necessarily denying that. But look at the Leicester team that won the league, players like Simpson, Morgan, Albrighton, Okazaki - they're not bad but they're hardly world-beaters. But play to their strengths, in the right system, and they'll be more than adequate support for the better quality players.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 28, 2020, 08:10:21 PM
Alan Myres now giving it the Monaco story....

Alan Myers reporting Everton close to signing: I knew he was trustworthy!
Alan Myers reporting he may be on his way to Monaco: I knew he was shite!
Alan Myers: I knew I was right!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on August 28, 2020, 08:14:16 PM
Alan Myers reporting Everton close to signing: I knew he was trustworthy!
Alan Myers reporting he may be on his way to Monaco: I knew he was shite!
Alan Myers: I knew I was right!

Pretty much, he takes the scattergun approach to news and is very inconsistent. Makes him a poor source. He hasn't got a clue really.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 28, 2020, 08:18:30 PM
It would be a tough decision for Frenchman Doucouré to make though,

Merseyside on a wet February night or
Tax free French speaking Monaco with sun, sea and sand and realistic opportunity to play Champions League football, guess he’ll have to toss a coin to decide.
Title: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on August 28, 2020, 08:37:27 PM
It would be a tough decision for Frenchman Doucouré to make though,

Merseyside on a wet February night or
Tax free French speaking Monaco with sun, sea and sand and realistic opportunity to play Champions League football, guess he'll have to toss a coin to decide.
Monaco is a nice place to live, but a shite place to play footy. Worst prawn sandwich, sorry, caviar, crowd. Iconic architecturally, but such a soulless stadium.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Juanito on August 28, 2020, 08:54:09 PM
Monaco is a nice place to live, but a shite place to play footy. Worst prawn sandwich, sorry, caviar, crowd. Iconic architecturally, but much a soulless stadium.


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Exactly, he has felt the atmosphere of Goodison and always play well there. He’s ours.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on August 28, 2020, 09:14:12 PM
Im still not too worried if we miss out on this one, for 28 million there should be plenty of other options available, hes ok, but hes not the calibre where im gonna get too upset. I know he had his heart set on Spurs but Holjberg is evidence that there is still value out there and paying nearly double what he costs isnt great imo, there were reasons why he was cheap but I just dont think Doucoure represents great value at the fee quoted.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Discostu on August 28, 2020, 09:38:11 PM
Im still not too worried if we miss out on this one, for 28 million there should be plenty of other options available, hes ok, but hes not the calibre where im gonna get too upset. I know he had his heart set on Spurs but Holjberg is evidence that there is still value out there and paying nearly double what he costs isnt great imo, there were reasons why he was cheap but I just dont think Doucoure represents great value at the fee quoted.
I'm on the same boat.  If you end up with the other two, I think your ok even if you take a shot at prospect.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 28, 2020, 09:47:12 PM
He hasn’t liked any of Ancelotti’s Insta posts, so he’s clearly not signing  :wag:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on August 28, 2020, 09:55:44 PM
Exactly, he has felt the atmosphere of Goodison and always play well there. He’s ours.

Mate, the atmosphere at Goodison for the last 2/3 years has been like Sunday Mass ffs
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Juanito on August 28, 2020, 10:17:24 PM
Mate, the atmosphere at Goodison for the last 2/3 years has been like Sunday Mass ffs

Haha. I’m trying to be optimistic.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 28, 2020, 10:21:12 PM
Exactly, he has felt the atmosphere of Goodison and always play well there. He’s ours.

You mean he likes the sound of groaning ?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 28, 2020, 10:27:09 PM
You mean he likes the sound of groaning ?

I think it's the clear-as-day "Please sit down" announcements.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on August 28, 2020, 10:39:43 PM
Operation Goodison is what it’s all about.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on August 28, 2020, 10:51:51 PM
Operation Goodison is what it’s all about.


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Ah ! So you have been to the ground on match day ! How I miss that “Operation Goodison” announcement, usually when we just about to score a scorcher then fluff it !
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on August 28, 2020, 11:12:15 PM
Ah ! So you have been to the ground on match day ! How I miss that "Operation Goodison” announcement, usually when we just about to score a scorcher then fluff it !
Nope. Never set foot in merseyside let alone the blue shrine.




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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 29, 2020, 12:19:29 AM
At Davies age Gomes had made 14 appearances in senior football after sitting in the Benfica B team for years
You do know that Davies is 22? And Gomes signed for Barca when he was 23 after 2 years at Valencia. At least look it up first.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: MmmblueBernard on August 29, 2020, 12:30:07 AM
You do know that Davies is 22? And Gomes signed for Barca when he was 23 after 2 years at Valencia. At least look it up first.

Be gone with your damn FACTS man. its embarrassing.........
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on August 29, 2020, 12:43:51 AM
You do know that Davies is 22? And Gomes signed for Barca when he was 23 after 2 years at Valencia. At least look it up first.

I was off by a year but stand by my point.

Davies turned 22 this summer, Gomes turned 22 in the summer of 2015 so at that point he’d played 59 senior games with 6 goals and 2 assists.

Doesn’t seem to be a better career than Davies IMO

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on August 29, 2020, 12:44:15 AM
Be gone with your damn FACTS man. its embarrassing.........
Especially when he’s wrong
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on August 29, 2020, 12:57:49 AM
I was off by a year but stand by my point.

Davies turned 22 this summer, Gomes turned 22 in the summer of 2015 so at that point he’d played 59 senior games with 6 goals and 2 assists.

Doesn’t seem to be a better career than Davies IMO



Neither are very good. Who’s the better runner Stephen hawking or kojak?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on August 29, 2020, 01:10:52 AM
According to The Athletic: “Watford and Abdoulaye Doucouré are ready to make a deal with Everton happen and only the final details need sorting. Doucouré has agreed a 4 year deal in principle with Everton.“


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on August 29, 2020, 01:38:31 AM
Especially when he's wrong
Wasnt it you who was wrong? A year out.

Anyway, I hope Davies pulls it out the bag this season, but I dont have much faith.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on August 29, 2020, 02:06:05 AM
Wasnt it you who was wrong? A year out.

Anyway, I hope Davies pulls it out the bag this season, but I dont have much faith.
If he does you know it’s gonna be a pretty cool bag
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: toshyboy on August 29, 2020, 02:40:05 AM
Dunno how reliable this site is
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mick 1995 on August 29, 2020, 03:01:07 AM
Another thing that we all seem to forget when stressing about how long transfers take, is how much money selling clubs owe to a player that they sell without a transfer request.

It might be that we've offered an asking price that Watford/Napoli/Real/Whoever are happy with, but they're rejecting it purely to drag it out and force the player to put something in writing. As soon as that happens, the player has waived any loyalty payments/future wage claims and clubs magically come to an agreement for a fee.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on August 29, 2020, 04:55:13 AM
Mate, the atmosphere at Goodison for the last 2/3 years has been like Sunday Mass ffs

https://www.premierleague.com/match/9985

I was at that game in person.  It was my 6th game on Goodison and at that time I got a seat next to the famous Gwladys Street Stand, I was like a kid looking forward to see them crazy....  I was very disappointed but hey it was the last game of the season...

In THAT game the Gwladys Street Stand sounded like a Sunday Mass.


(sry doucoure)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on August 31, 2020, 08:01:19 PM
Any news on Big D?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 31, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
A bit of me wants Doucouré not to happen, now that the experience and quality of Allan and James are looking likely.

Soumaré would be my pick, as I’ve mentioned a million times before.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 31, 2020, 08:37:59 PM
A bit of me wants Doucouré not to happen, now that the experience and quality of Allan and James are looking likely.

Soumaré would be my pick, as I’ve mentioned a million times before.

I thought was Sangaré? Who can keep track of this stuff.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 31, 2020, 08:59:30 PM
I thought was Sangaré? Who can keep track of this stuff.

Both, tbh.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on August 31, 2020, 09:14:40 PM
A bit of me wants Doucouré not to happen, now that the experience and quality of Allan and James are looking likely.

Soumaré would be my pick, as I’ve mentioned a million times before.

Feel the same way. Now we have established and proven players coming in (well, hopefully), I think we can look for someone a little younger. I wouldn't say no to Dacoure for early 20s, but nothing over 25 mill for sure. He's not worth it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Free Agent on August 31, 2020, 09:50:06 PM
It’s true Allan & James bring a wealth of experience but Doucoure has PL experience, so I think we probably still need him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on August 31, 2020, 09:51:38 PM
Could see Allan and Doucoure making us very difficult to play through for bigger teams and helping us to get the odd result against the top 4 with the help of a scruffy DCL decider!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on August 31, 2020, 10:04:16 PM
It’s true Allan & James bring a wealth of experience but Doucoure has PL experience, so I think we probably still want need him.

Indeed!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on August 31, 2020, 10:08:03 PM
Allan will need legs around him, Doucoure brings that.

Doucoure will need someone holding and tackling behind him, Allan hopefully brings that (they both press like maniacs so up to the coach to make sure we're not leaving a big sea in the middle of the pitch to swim through).

They make sense together, apart they start looking a bit suspect
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on August 31, 2020, 10:49:11 PM
Allan will need legs around him, Doucoure brings that.

Doucoure will need someone holding and tackling behind him, Allan hopefully brings that (they both press like maniacs so up to the coach to make sure we're not leaving a big sea in the middle of the pitch to swim through).

They make sense together, apart they start looking a bit suspect

I can’t imagine either of them wanting to sit, but of the two, Allan is the one to do it, although that would stifle the best part of his game, which is pressing and winning the ball high up the pitch.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 01, 2020, 12:13:11 AM
I can’t imagine either of them wanting to sit, but of the two, Allan is the one to do it, although that would stifle the best part of his game, which is pressing and winning the ball high up the pitch.

Well someone's going to have to sit as it isn't Gbamins game either.

That scouting report on Allan in the other thread said his pressing up high can be a bit wild, but middle and final thirds is really good.

So maybe a bit like Gana.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 01, 2020, 01:13:44 AM
Well someone's going to have to sit as it isn't Gbamins game either.

That scouting report on Allan in the other thread said his pressing up high can be a bit wild, but middle and final thirds is really good.

So maybe a bit like Gana.

Does somebody have to sit?

At Napoli he played in a 442 next to Fabian successfully and he’s not a sitter either
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 01, 2020, 01:47:08 AM
Well someone's going to have to sit as it isn't Gbamins game either.

That scouting report on Allan in the other thread said his pressing up high can be a bit wild, but middle and final thirds is really good.

So maybe a bit like Gana.

I was thinking about the Gana similarity, which isn’t necessarily a good thing positionally, but definitely is when it comes to energy and ball recoveries/forcing errors.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: American Evertonian on September 01, 2020, 02:00:18 AM
Well someone's going to have to sit as it isn't Gbamins game either.

That scouting report on Allan in the other thread said his pressing up high can be a bit wild, but middle and final thirds is really good.

So maybe a bit like Gana.

We are about to have way too much dead weight in the middle of the middle of the pitch if these signings come off and if we don’t move players.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 01, 2020, 06:40:05 AM
We are about to have way too much dead weight in the middle of the middle of the pitch if these signings come off and if we don’t move players.

Put a tenner on our under 23s to win it again this season lads.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: American Evertonian on September 01, 2020, 12:10:51 PM
Put a tenner on our under 23s to win it again this season lads.

Haha so true. Our lineup for the season could feature Besic, Davies, Bolasie, Sandro, Gylfi, Brainwithe (spelling), etc.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Omar on September 01, 2020, 12:36:24 PM
They want 30m but might take less if we send something their way. If we can ship Besic and Bolasie and bring him in I'll be out of my fucking head.

https://www.90min.com/posts/exclusive-everton-transfer-news-james-rodriguez-allan-abdoulaye-doucoure
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 01, 2020, 12:55:00 PM
Think this one will drag on a bit longer as a) we’ll need some wages out the door first if we’re bringing in two higher earners now; and b) the actual deadline for inter-PL/EFL transfers is the middle of October.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dchans on September 01, 2020, 02:04:49 PM
 It sure if I’m insane but this is the one I want in the most out of the three of them
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 01, 2020, 06:27:39 PM
They want 30m but might take less if we send something their way. If we can ship Besic and Bolasie and bring him in I'll be out of my fucking head.

https://www.90min.com/posts/exclusive-everton-transfer-news-james-rodriguez-allan-abdoulaye-doucoure

90min get out.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 01, 2020, 06:55:14 PM
It sure if I’m insane but this is the one I want in the most out of the three of them

Each to their own but for me thats like being given the opportuity to with the jackpot on the Euromillions, national lottery or win a tenner on a scrtach card and you chose the latter
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 01, 2020, 07:25:56 PM
Gordon to Watford on loan?

https://twitter.com/AdamLeventhal/status/1300755748037767171
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 01, 2020, 07:50:49 PM
Gordon to Watford on loan?

https://twitter.com/AdamLeventhal/status/1300755748037767171

Would be a very smart move IMO, though I'd rather it be Gibson or Branthwaite if a loan is in fact part of any Doucoure deal.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on September 01, 2020, 08:12:50 PM
Gordon to Watford on loan?

https://twitter.com/AdamLeventhal/status/1300755748037767171

Would rather keep Gordon and send Bolasie over. Or Sandro.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bigmanbob on September 01, 2020, 08:28:43 PM
They can have their pick from Sandro, Bolassie, Besic, Tosun, Siggy and Iwobi
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 01, 2020, 08:37:08 PM
They can have the lot
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 01, 2020, 08:42:26 PM
Would be a very smart move IMO, though I'd rather it be Gibson or Branthwaite if a loan is in fact part of any Doucoure deal.

Shit move if you ask me. We should be dominating and winning more games with the players we're bringing in, would rather have Gordon to bring on, fully integrate with the team and get used to our way and style over having to bring players on that we dont want. Gordon showed hes more than good enough to be considered part of the squad and even pushing for a place, so not sure what benefit he'd get from getting booted all over the place in the Championship?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 01, 2020, 08:48:55 PM
Wrong thread.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 01, 2020, 09:14:00 PM
Shit move if you ask me. We should be dominating and winning more games with the players we're bringing in, would rather have Gordon to bring on, fully integrate with the team and get used to our way and style over having to bring players on that we dont want. Gordon showed hes more than good enough to be considered part of the squad and even pushing for a place, so not sure what benefit he'd get from getting booted all over the place in the Championship?

I can see the value and merit of both arguments tbh. I also aren't slobbering all over him like some (this is not directed at anyone specifically). I just personally think he has to do a lot to be fully ready, but I accept I may be in the minority. Not that anyone cares, but his numbers don't demonstrate anything other than that he needs work.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Omar on September 01, 2020, 10:51:05 PM
They can have their pick from Sandro, Bolassie, Besic, Tosun, Siggy and Iwobi

can they take all of them?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dchans on September 02, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Each to their own but for me thats like being given the opportuity to with the jackpot on the Euromillions, national lottery or win a tenner on a scrtach card and you chose the latter

Not really - I think that long term he is the best fit for what we need, doesn’t need time to adapt and is the least risky
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Thornton_19 on September 02, 2020, 02:02:46 AM
Reckon Doucoure will be a last week of the window signing.

Watford dont like us, plus we will try to get that price down as much as possible. If he only wants us we can wait they need to sell because of their finances.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 02, 2020, 03:11:12 AM
Sod him, and move on. Still think there's better for the role he's being signed for, and it would annoy me to give Watford a big wedge of money and solve one of their problems.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 02, 2020, 03:14:34 AM
Any metrics heads got eyes on this lads pack and potentially comparison to similar players who play the role we want him to play?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on September 02, 2020, 05:42:12 AM
Evening Standard reporting Monaco bid now. Wildly differing reports on the fee Watford want though. All smoke screen I reckon
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: cantoffee on September 02, 2020, 07:36:00 AM
Evening Standard reporting Monaco bid now. Wildly differing reports on the fee Watford want though. All smoke screen I reckon
Yea think we're the only ones truly in for him at the moment and we will be willing to wait it out for them to bring their price down once we've got Allan and James wrapped up.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 02, 2020, 01:21:48 PM
Athletic saying both clubs want to sort the deal this week, if possible.

We apparently bid £15m first off. They potentially want £20m rising to £25m with the now ritual bonuses.

Doucoure is training apart from the main group as they’re not counting on him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 02, 2020, 02:10:24 PM
I think £20m is fair in the current climate. Doucoure is too good for the Championship, and Watford don't really have a leg to stand on here.

Also, if we complete the Allan and James signings, we can push them a little harder on price.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Paddockoldie on September 02, 2020, 02:52:15 PM
The club should say the player needs to submit a transfer request... that usually pushes the issue to conclusion.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bigmanbob on September 02, 2020, 03:06:24 PM
If we get him for £20m with Rodriguez and Allan both rumoured to be on or around £20m as well that's some decent business for us
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 02, 2020, 04:24:22 PM
If we get him for £20m with Rodriguez and Allan both rumoured to be on or around £20m as well that's some decent business for us

At £20m each that would be for the same fees as 1.33 Sigurdssons.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee1 on September 02, 2020, 04:38:56 PM
https://twitter.com/ObserverRyan/status/1301077242450194432
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bigmanbob on September 02, 2020, 05:20:38 PM
That sounds promising, Watford want £20m, we're going in low anywhere around £17m would be cheap as chips
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on September 02, 2020, 05:25:11 PM
If we get this lad and James and one of Allan's legs for less than the price of 1 Gylfi Sigurdsson I will not argue.


Until they get injured, and Sig plays 35 games
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 02, 2020, 08:07:15 PM
Any metrics heads got eyes on this lads pack and potentially comparison to similar players who play the role we want him to play?

At a very high level overview, his xG was 5.28 (he had 4g) and his xA was 4.08 (he had 2a), both highs on the team for anyone who wasn't a forward.
-Gylfi had our best MF xG at 4.02 and our best MF xA at 4.01.

Solid if not spectacular game metrics:
79% passing
-Gylfi 85%, Gomes 84%
50% long balls (he's much more of a short passer)
-Gomes 67%, Gylfi 55%
1.6 shots/game (0.7 outside the area) w/ 67% accuracy
-Gylfi 1.3 (0.8 outside the area) w/ 81% accuracy, Gomes 0.3 (0.2 outside the area) w/ 50% accuracy
1.7 tackles/game
-Gylfi 1.4, Gomes 1.2
1.1 dribbles/game
-Gomes 1.3, Gylfi 0.5
1 key pass/game
-Gylfi 1.81, Gomes 0.68

Most effective as an attacking MF. Whoscored rated him 6.83 on the campaign. They had Gylfi at 6.65 and Gomes at 6.43.

@brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) can pull the more detailed metrics. I don't know where he gets all that from.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: cantoffee on September 02, 2020, 08:45:09 PM
At a very high level overview, his xG was 5.28 (he had 4g) and his xA was 4.08 (he had 2a), both highs on the team for anyone who wasn't a forward.
-Gylfi had our best MF xG at 4.02 and our best MF xA at 4.01.

Solid if not spectacular game metrics:
79% passing
-Gylfi 85%, Gomes 84%
50% long balls (he's much more of a short passer)
-Gomes 67%, Gylfi 55%
1.6 shots/game (0.7 outside the area) w/ 67% accuracy
-Gylfi 1.3 (0.8 outside the area) w/ 81% accuracy, Gomes 0.3 (0.2 outside the area) w/ 50% accuracy
1.7 tackles/game
-Gylfi 1.4, Gomes 1.2
1.1 dribbles/game
-Gomes 1.3, Gylfi 0.5
1 key pass/game
-Gylfi 1.81, Gomes 0.68

Most effective as an attacking MF. Whoscored rated him 6.83 on the campaign. They had Gylfi at 6.65 and Gomes at 6.43.

@brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) can pull the more detailed metrics. I don't know where he gets all that from.
Open play only and my guess is Gylfi stats drop dramatically. Not to say that set pieces have no bearing on the outcome but if we assume James and Digne to take over those duties at a similar level then Doucoure looks a good option.

Likely gets up and down the pitch better, more pressing, and gets himself into the box as well which we have lacked in a 4-4-2.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 02, 2020, 08:56:29 PM
Yeah I think typically his stats are quite prem average for his position. Statsbomb did an article after his breakout year and said basically - yeah he's alright but nothing special statwise.

Not read this yet but will be a good read on him :

https://twitter.com/cmorris813/status/1300355451104751616?s=19

Rather unusually, my guy Paul Riley rates him a bit. He's usually v down on our signings, the only one I can remember him loving was Richarlison. I think he's coming from a : this guy does lots of stuff we don't currently do and immediately gives us a prem ready midfield with legs, which I think is a fair assessment.

Plus he probably benches Gomes which is a plus
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 02, 2020, 09:00:43 PM
Open play only and my guess is Gylfi stats drop dramatically. Not to say that set pieces have no bearing on the outcome but if we assume James and Digne to take over those duties at a similar level then Doucoure looks a good option.

Likely gets up and down the pitch better, more pressing, and gets himself into the box as well which we have lacked in a 4-4-2.

Sent from my SM-G970W using NSNO Everton Forums mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)

Absolutely.

The ToffeeTV video analysis on CMs is great for a bit more analysis and specific context around things like "progressive passes" (forward passes of more than 20 yds in the defensive half; 10yds or more in the attacking half), "progressive runs" (similar to passing), and a couple more. They did it on Allan, Doucoure, and Sangaré.

Check it out, I really enjoyed it and found it very informative.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 02, 2020, 09:12:40 PM
Stats are important, but there is a lot of stuff done off the ball that is vital as well, such as positioning and closing down. Even off ball runs, which is something we have not done enough of - even though you might not actually get the ball, it opens space for others to do damage.

The above things take unselfishness, desire, commitment etc to the cause to win football matches, and not to just do well for yourself and your career. Having these kind of guys are instrumental to a team being successful, and you will struggle to find a successful team who doesn't have one or two guys  like this who are in the shadows of their teammates who hog the limelight.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 02, 2020, 09:40:13 PM
Yeah I think typically his stats are quite prem average for his position. Statsbomb did an article after his breakout year and said basically - yeah he's alright but nothing special statwise.

Not read this yet but will be a good read on him :

https://twitter.com/cmorris813/status/1300355451104751616?s=19

Rather unusually, my guy Paul Riley rates him a bit. He's usually v down on our signings, the only one I can remember him loving was Richarlison. I think he's coming from a : this guy does lots of stuff we don't currently do and immediately gives us a prem ready midfield with legs, which I think is a fair assessment.

Plus he probably benches Gomes which is a plus

Just read this. He sounds shite but athletic.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 02, 2020, 09:40:37 PM
No idea who this fella is but he seems pretty sure

https://twitter.com/TheEFCForum/status/1295944572640677888
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 02, 2020, 10:04:38 PM
No idea who this fella is but he seems pretty sure

https://twitter.com/TheEFCForum/status/1295944572640677888
From done to he will be an Everton player by end of the window in 6 tweets

So, October it is then
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 02, 2020, 10:08:24 PM
No idea who this fella is but he seems pretty sure

https://twitter.com/TheEFCForum/status/1295944572640677888

19 August
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on September 02, 2020, 10:15:08 PM
From done to he will be an Everton player by end of the window in 6 tweets

So, October it is then

If it was done on August the 19th I’m pretty sure we would of announced it by now.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 02, 2020, 10:22:31 PM
Not sure how reliable Fourth Official are these days, but...

https://twitter.com/FourthOfficial_/status/1301178470752497664
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Outworlder47 on September 02, 2020, 10:28:05 PM
Not sure how reliable Fourth Official are these days, but...

https://twitter.com/FourthOfficial_/status/1301178470752497664

I strongly suspect, if true, that that £25M figure is the maximum possible fee including bonuses (like £1M each over the four seasons if we achieve CL qualification).
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 02, 2020, 10:30:06 PM
I strongly suspect, if true, that that £25M figure is the maximum possible fee including bonuses (like £1M each over the four seasons if we achieve CL qualification).

Yes that’s what was rumoured in the Athletic.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 02, 2020, 10:32:07 PM
19 August


Haha fucking hell, didn't notice the date
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on September 02, 2020, 10:47:59 PM
Twitter going off saying 22 rising to 25. Only 8 million upfront the rest of the 22 in installments
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 02, 2020, 11:14:59 PM
Twitter going off saying 22 rising to 25. Only 8 million upfront the rest of the 22 in installments

Pmsl.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on September 02, 2020, 11:18:48 PM
Twitter going off saying 22 rising to 25. Only 8 million upfront the rest of the 22 in installments
Yep, looks to have come from this guy who's a sound Watford source.
https://twitter.com/louorns/status/1301180295060901890
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 02, 2020, 11:20:29 PM
Yep, looks to have come from this guy who's a sound Watford source.
https://twitter.com/louorns/status/1301180295060901890

Great deal for us if true.

Bit of a side bonus for me as if Grimes goes that will be another chunk of cash going to my local club Exeter City, along with the inevitable Ollie Watkins money once he is sold.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 02, 2020, 11:38:05 PM
https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1301196644470394880
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 02, 2020, 11:48:36 PM
Again, that's a great bit of business. Fills up the Central positions nicely.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Omar on September 02, 2020, 11:49:38 PM
Fills up the Central positions nicely.

and how.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 02, 2020, 11:57:37 PM
https://twitter.com/gffn/status/1301201201816457217?s=

Busy couple of days, if true
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee1 on September 03, 2020, 12:01:11 AM
https://twitter.com/gffn/status/1301201201816457217?s=

Busy couple of days, if true

£19.5 million, not bad fee that.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 03, 2020, 12:11:02 AM
Paul Joyce has spoken:

https://twitter.com/_pauljoyce/status/1301205882311671808
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on September 03, 2020, 12:15:09 AM
 Those Liverpool fans are embarrassing with the Thiago stuff I hope he joins United
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on September 03, 2020, 12:15:12 AM
Yeah, good business.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on September 03, 2020, 12:18:29 AM
Considering they wanted 35 last summer. Sensational business.

We now have an engine.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 03, 2020, 12:20:25 AM
I'm not a massive Doucoure fan, but our midfield is transformed and boy was it needed

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 03, 2020, 12:24:53 AM
Love a signing for the here and now. Had enough of potential.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Silas on September 03, 2020, 12:25:31 AM
Got to be changing our expectations from fuck all to Europe now if the three come in. They need time etc but we've transformed this team in a window
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Evertonian in NC on September 03, 2020, 12:25:59 AM
We have some warm bodies, at least.  I'll take it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 03, 2020, 12:26:40 AM
Breaking on sky sports news
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 03, 2020, 12:26:42 AM
Sky reporting now, 25mill which includes bonuses

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 12:27:02 AM
Got to be changing our expectations from fuck all to Europe now if the three come in. They need time etc but we've transformed this team in a window

This is what I've been saying!

We just added motherfucking Allan, James & Doucoure. Why isn't Europe out of the question? Because it isn't!!

Whoo hoo party time.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 03, 2020, 12:28:17 AM
Sky sports news reporting a higher fee than everyone else as per
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 12:29:52 AM
Sky sports news reporting a higher fee than everyone else as per

Sky Sports can do one.

I'm really enjoying all these English phrasing and colloquialisms, I have to say.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 03, 2020, 12:34:07 AM
Some proper bad quegs follow Joyce
Almost feel sorry for him
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 03, 2020, 12:36:44 AM
Some proper bad quegs follow Joyce
Almost feel sorry for him

Nah he's a red, fuck him
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on September 03, 2020, 12:37:24 AM
I post this with the disclaimer that I am a fan of Doucouré - I thought we should sign him ahead of Richarlison TBH - but this StatsBomb piece from a couple of years ago is worth a read for some data driven opinion.

https://statsbomb.com/2018/07/just-how-good-is-watfords-abdoulaye-doucoure/
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 03, 2020, 12:38:58 AM
Our strongest and most creative midfield for decades
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on September 03, 2020, 12:39:55 AM
Sky Sports can do one.

I'm really enjoying all these English phrasing and colloquialisms, I have to say.

I perplex my wife every day with my phrases and colloquialisms. And just in general too.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 12:42:16 AM
Nah he's a red, fuck him

That's what makes his positive Everton news that much more credible tho.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: MexicanToffee on September 03, 2020, 12:58:58 AM
 Is it Zaha time yet?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 01:00:46 AM
Is it Zaha time yet?

Don't ruin the day please.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 03, 2020, 01:05:11 AM
https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/1301217502404452352

Anyone care to do the honours?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: MexicanToffee on September 03, 2020, 01:07:42 AM
Don't ruin the day please.
Just asking like...
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 01:08:26 AM
Just asking like...

I know but I don't want anyone to hear you!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 03, 2020, 01:12:21 AM
Decent signings hopefully. Going to keep my expectations relatively low, so that I'm not massively disappointed if things don't quite click.

Hopefully get Top 10.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 03, 2020, 01:12:58 AM
Decent signings hopefully. Going to keep my expectations relatively low, so that I'm not massively disappointed if things don't quite click.

Hopefully get Top 10.

They’re cup winners these lads.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 01:13:32 AM
Decent signings hopefully. Going to keep my expectations relatively low, so that I'm not massively disappointed if things don't quite click.

Hopefully get Top 10.

Sorry, already pre-booked my trip to celebration land.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on September 03, 2020, 01:14:51 AM
Carlo has to walk if we finish 10th
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 03, 2020, 01:15:41 AM
Sorry, already pre-booked my trip to celebration land.

You crack on mate. And same to anyone else.

Just stating my own expectations.

Think some will get a bit carried away, then if we start a bit slowly, the same people will be having a complete meltdown. Not getting sucked into that kind of thought process.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 03, 2020, 01:16:03 AM
Back to back FA cups I’m going for.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 01:17:40 AM
You crack on mate. And same to anyone else.

Just stating my own expectations.

Think some will get a bit carried away, then if we start a bit slowly, the same people will be having a complete meltdown. Not getting sucked into that kind of thought process.

I never meltdown! As a NY Rangers (hockey) fan and Oakland, err, Las Vegas Raiders (NFL) fan, I'm so used to disappointment that it's like running out of cereal when it happens.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 01:18:35 AM
Back to back FA cups I’m going for.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEhmCXL48h4PFFDgs/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 03, 2020, 01:18:51 AM
Decent signings hopefully. Going to keep my expectations relatively low, so that I'm not massively disappointed if things don't quite click.

Hopefully get Top 10.

I agree, I just want us to look like we have a way of playing, and be threatening and solid, and in the running for 7th.

Oh yeah, and cups blah, blah etc.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 03, 2020, 01:19:40 AM
Want us to end our hoodoo in the League cup.

A club of our size having never won this is embarrassing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 03, 2020, 01:19:49 AM
I never meltdown! As a NY Rangers (hockey) fan and Oakland, err, Las Vegas Raiders (NFL) fan, I'm so used to disappointment that it's like running out of cereal when it happens.

It genuinely wasn't a veiled dig at you or anyone else. More trying to train myself to go easy with the expectations, so that I'm not majorly depressed 10 games in, if things take a while to click.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 01:21:25 AM
It genuinely wasn't a veiled dig at you or anyone else. More trying to train myself to go easy with the expectations, so that I'm not majorly depressed 10 games in, if things take a while to click.

Oh no, I didn't take it as a dig at all. More of a comment about why I'm already more excited than any sane person should be and if it doesn't pan out I'll just shrug and maybe sulk a little bit.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 03, 2020, 01:36:22 AM
I think we can all be excited but realistic at the same time. We know that this isn’t suddenly going to make us world beaters. It just hopefully makes us better to watch and competitive again. Going into the season with what we had just wasn’t an option and so getting these three boys in the door will be a great day!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 03, 2020, 01:37:35 AM
Nah he's a red, fuck him
I did say almost!!!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on September 03, 2020, 01:43:48 AM
I sense a song with the tune from a certain Dean Martin song being created...
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 03, 2020, 01:53:45 AM
Nothing like expecting to win the FA Cup each season or thinking we’re gonna break our league cup voodoo.

EDIT: I forgot the blah blah bit.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bigmanbob on September 03, 2020, 01:59:15 AM
At a very high level overview, his xG was 5.28 (he had 4g) and his xA was 4.08 (he had 2a), both highs on the team for anyone who wasn't a forward.
-Gylfi had our best MF xG at 4.02 and our best MF xA at 4.01.

Solid if not spectacular game metrics:
79% passing
-Gylfi 85%, Gomes 84%
50% long balls (he's much more of a short passer)
-Gomes 67%, Gylfi 55%
1.6 shots/game (0.7 outside the area) w/ 67% accuracy
-Gylfi 1.3 (0.8 outside the area) w/ 81% accuracy, Gomes 0.3 (0.2 outside the area) w/ 50% accuracy
1.7 tackles/game
-Gylfi 1.4, Gomes 1.2
1.1 dribbles/game
-Gomes 1.3, Gylfi 0.5
1 key pass/game
-Gylfi 1.81, Gomes 0.68

Most effective as an attacking MF. Whoscored rated him 6.83 on the campaign. They had Gylfi at 6.65 and Gomes at 6.43.

@brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) can pull the more detailed metrics. I don't know where he gets all that from.
WTF does any of this mean????
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 02:01:34 AM
WTF does any of this mean????

You know, stuff and things.

Just a per game breakdown on some key metrics, like passing, shots, tackles, key passes, etc.

Then the xG & xA analytics.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on September 03, 2020, 02:02:28 AM
Considering they wanted 35 last summer. Sensational business.

We now have an engine.

They actually rejected £35 million didn't they?!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 03, 2020, 02:04:11 AM
They actually rejected £35 million didn't they?!

That’s what happens when you say no to Brands. He will quietly engineer your relegation and take the player for 50% less.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on September 03, 2020, 02:04:15 AM
They actually rejected £35 million didn't they?!

I believe so. Serves them right after Silva.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 03, 2020, 02:06:47 AM
Hunter's piped up, as well -

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/02/everton-agree-fee-sign-abdoulaye-doucoure-watford

A few key takeaways:

- Chose us over several other options
- Definite decision to go with experience over youth this summer
- Ancelotti instrumental to James and Allan
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Blue Lagoon on September 03, 2020, 02:20:01 AM
Oh no, I didn't take it as a dig at all. More of a comment about why I'm already more excited than any sane person should be and if it doesn't pan out I'll just shrug and maybe sulk a little bit.

I’m extremely excited by these likely new signings and a proven manager to coach them. Really hopeful of great times ahead.
That said, I promise to not go on a killing spree if things don’t click after a few weeks.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 03, 2020, 02:24:13 AM
I'm extremely excited by these likely new signings and a proven manager to coach them. Really hopeful of great times ahead.
That said, I promise to not go on a killing spree if things don't click after a few weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using NSNO Everton Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)
Same, we were around top 6 form with shit players under Carlo, now we have a competent midfield I'm starting to look forward to it. Still think we need to temper expectations but I hope we close the significant gap to 4th-6th that has been there

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 02:29:24 AM
I’m extremely excited by these likely new signings and a proven manager to coach them. Really hopeful of great times ahead.
That said, I promise to not go on a killing spree if things don’t click after a few weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using NSNO Everton Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)

Honestly I just blame my mate over here who somehow convinced me to come on board in 2017. I believe his exact words were, "We just sold our best player and bought 5 attacking midfielders. You should pick Everton to support."
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 03, 2020, 02:50:05 AM
Honestly I just blame my mate over here who somehow convinced me to come on board in 2017. I believe his exact words were, "We just sold our best player and bought 5 attacking midfielders. You should pick Everton to support."

Honestly dude, if this basket case of a club ever achieves anything meaningful again, it'll mean a billion times more than Bayern winning their 47th Champions League.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 02:51:41 AM
Honestly dude, if this basket case of a club ever achieves anything meaningful again, it'll mean a billion times more than Bayern winning their 47th Champions League.

You will get exactly 0% disagreement from me. Bayern is fun to watch. I feel no real emotion supporting them.

I don't really know how it happened, but the Toffs have consumed my life since 2017. Like, I fucking love them. If you give me time, I will fucking hate them too.

edit: wait, except Lewandowski. Big time man crush on him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on September 03, 2020, 03:39:45 AM
You will get exactly 0% disagreement from me. Bayern is fun to watch. I feel no real emotion supporting them.

I don't really know how it happened, but the Toffs have consumed my life since 2017. Like, I fucking love them. If you give me time, I will fucking hate them too.

edit: wait, except Lewandowski. Big time man crush on him.

Man....when Bally finds out you called em “the Toffs” .....Ffs !
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 03:43:41 AM
Man....when Bally finds out you called em “the Toffs” .....Ffs !

At least I don't call James, Rodriguez like the other cretins on these shores.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 03, 2020, 03:45:56 AM
At least I don't call James, Rodriguez like the other cretins on these shores.

'Toffs' also means rich people/aristocracy over here, just for the heads up.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 03:49:04 AM
'Toffs' also means rich people/aristocracy over here, just for the heads up.

Oh, no shit? Ok then, Toffees only it is. See? Learn something new everyday. :cheers:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 03, 2020, 03:50:43 AM
Sometimes I say the toffs. The toffees, the toffs, the blews, the milky coffees.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on September 03, 2020, 03:55:49 AM
At least I don't call James, Rodriguez like the other cretins on these shores.

He’s Hamez ffs !
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 03, 2020, 03:56:45 AM
He’s Hamez ffs !

It's Häm-ez, if you want to get technical ;)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 03, 2020, 03:59:06 AM
Anything but “the ev”. Never “the ev”.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 03, 2020, 04:12:35 AM
Sometimes I say the toffs. The toffees, the toffs, the blews, the milky coffees.

I for the first time now understand @themilkycoffees (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=6641) username. I thought he was just a Latte fan.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 03, 2020, 04:35:46 AM
Nice.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on September 04, 2020, 02:55:23 AM
Boom.
https://twitter.com/AdamLeventhal/status/1301609051797835777
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ncstate4jpc on September 04, 2020, 02:57:14 AM
Triple announcement incoming
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dchans on September 04, 2020, 02:57:46 AM
Thank fuck for that

The least exciting of the three but this guy will be worth his weight in gold
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 04, 2020, 02:58:55 AM
Boom.
https://twitter.com/AdamLeventhal/status/1301609051797835777

Is this dude reputable?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 04, 2020, 03:00:24 AM
He's a sky sports news reporter
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on September 04, 2020, 03:05:48 AM
Is this dude reputable?

Yep
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 04, 2020, 03:09:20 AM
Got the vibe of the type of signing that makes the other signings work to their max potential.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 04, 2020, 03:11:21 AM
He's a sky sports news reporter

I’m honestly unsure if you’re saying that means he’s reputable or he chats shit....
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on September 04, 2020, 03:15:04 AM
I’m honestly unsure if you’re saying that means he’s reputable or he chats shit....

He works for the athletic now.

Don’t think he’d report on this if he didn’t have it as fact.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on September 04, 2020, 03:15:48 AM
The Watford ITK backs him
https://twitter.com/louorns/status/1301613889600315392
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 04, 2020, 03:34:11 AM
I’m honestly unsure if you’re saying that means he’s reputable or he chats shit....

He was one of the more likeable one's
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Simon Paul on September 04, 2020, 03:56:16 AM
https://twitter.com/SSN401/status/1301606883690717185?s=19
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on September 04, 2020, 03:59:51 AM
https://twitter.com/SSN401/status/1301606883690717185?s=19

Brilliant
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Omar on September 04, 2020, 04:36:06 AM
https://twitter.com/SSN401/status/1301606883690717185?s=19

I enjoyed this response.

https://twitter.com/gegenimpressive/status/1301623911965224965?s=21
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ally2 on September 04, 2020, 05:20:35 AM
We need a player like this to transform us from a table football style.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 04, 2020, 05:27:38 AM
Other than watching him dominate our midfield every time he played against us, is he any good? (I’m chuffed we’ve got him btw, I just want to know if he’s a hard worker with decent pressing, ball recoveries and the like)

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 04, 2020, 05:31:10 AM
Other than watching him dominate our midfield every time he played against us, is he any good? (I’m chuffed we’ve got him btw, I just want to know if he’s a hard worker with decent pressing, ball recoveries and the like)



Trying to recall what I read a few weeks ago...

Don’t think his defensive stuff stands out in his own half.

Does appear to be very good at pressing and recoveries in the opposition’s half.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 04, 2020, 05:33:16 AM
Trying to recall what I read a few weeks ago...

Don’t think his defensive stuff stands out in his own half.

Does appear to be very good at pressing and recoveries in the opposition’s half.

Ah, thanks, GL.

Look forward to him forcing turnovers into the paths of Richarlison and James, then.

Fucking hell, James Rodriguez, madness! :)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 04, 2020, 05:35:33 AM
Ah, thanks, GL.

Look forward to him forcing turnovers into the paths of Richarlison and James, then.

Fucking hell, James Rodriguez, madness! :)

Yes I’m guessing he’ll be used to run us up the pitch if we’re deep.

Or enable us to play more aggressively without being completely exposed as he’ll actually win some balls back higher up the pitch.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 04, 2020, 05:36:44 AM
Yes I’m guessing he’ll be used to run us up the pitch if we’re deep.

Or enable us to play more aggressively without being completely exposed as he’ll actually win some balls back higher up the pitch.

Nice.

He’s always looked like a bully, and a decent ball carrier whenever I’ve seen him against us.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 04, 2020, 05:38:10 AM
https://twitter.com/SSN401/status/1301606883690717185

I enjoyed this response.

https://twitter.com/gegenimpressive/status/1301623911965224965
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 04, 2020, 05:39:31 AM
Nice.

He’s always looked like a bully, and a decent ball carrier whenever I’ve seen him against us.

Yes that’s the other thing, always felt difficult playing against Watford.

Fed up of losing most 60/40s never mind nearly all 50/50s
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 04, 2020, 06:56:02 AM
The scouting report wasn't particularly glowing.

Poor technically on the ball, Including retaining posession when pressed despite a big frame got his body shape was wrong and he was pushed off often. Very poor passing. Pressed well particularly in the upper two thirds but wasn't particularly brave in challenges.

I can see some similarities to gylfi in that off the ball he will be good shape wise, and if we want to press he can and will be a willing presser. Probably aiming to divert people into Allan's path so he can dispossess them.

Off the ball going forward I think he will be very useful in providing numbers on the break as he's fairly quick and has good runs. Think about how often gylfi arrives into the box during a break, I think we'll see the same from Doucoure but even more often, even on the quicker breaks.

On the ball he's prem average I think. He's not really going to split defences, he's definitely not going to be pinging raking balls over the top and he's not going to be jinking through two or three defenders. We will have Allan and Gomes for our passing I think. James is as good a passer as anyone too.

But yeah he is a push and run athlete who will shuttle the ball almost from one box to the other like a freight teain, which we haven't really had since Barkley. Some similarities there, too.

I don't personally think we'll see many goals.

I think he's basically an injection of energy and willing pressing to take that burden away from gylfi, and his ability to run the ball up the pitch is as good as anyone in the league if not as nice to watch it will be effective.

I'm not very excited about this signing but I think if we're reasonable in our expectations he'll be useful. Hopefully will surprise me, arriving late onto James' cutbacks would be good fun
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 04, 2020, 06:58:27 AM
Yes that’s the other thing, always felt difficult playing against Watford.

Fed up of losing most 60/40s never mind nearly all 50/50s

I do agree that it always felt he was difficult to play against, takes up a lot of the pitch and covers lots of ground.

Capoue arguably did more of the kind of stuff people are maybe expecting of Doucoure in actual tackles, interceptions and forward passing, but he's rates by Watford fans and opposition alike so the feeling is mutual, he makes an impression on the pitch.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 04, 2020, 07:05:54 AM
The scouting report wasn't particularly glowing.

Poor technically on the ball, Including retaining posession when pressed despite a big frame got his body shape was wrong and he was pushed off often. Very poor passing. Pressed well particularly in the upper two thirds but wasn't particularly brave in challenges.

I can see some similarities to gylfi in that off the ball he will be good shape wise, and if we want to press he can and will be a willing presser. Probably aiming to divert people into Allan's path so he can dispossess them.

Off the ball going forward I think he will be very useful in providing numbers on the break as he's fairly quick and has good runs. Think about how often gylfi arrives into the box during a break, I think we'll see the same from Doucoure but even more often, even on the quicker breaks.

On the ball he's prem average I think. He's not really going to split defences, he's definitely not going to be pinging raking balls over the top and he's not going to be jinking through two or three defenders. We will have Allan and Gomes for our passing I think. James is as good a passer as anyone too.

But yeah he is a push and run athlete who will shuttle the ball almost from one box to the other like a freight teain, which we haven't really had since Barkley. Some similarities there, too.

I don't personally think we'll see many goals.

I think he's basically an injection of energy and willing pressing to take that burden away from gylfi, and his ability to run the ball up the pitch is as good as anyone in the league if not as nice to watch it will be effective.

I'm not very excited about this signing but I think if we're reasonable in our expectations he'll be useful. Hopefully will surprise me, arriving late onto James' cutbacks would be good fun


Thanks, dude.

I think I’m happy about it, but not sure.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 04, 2020, 12:02:36 PM
Watched one of those ‘Welcome to Everton’ videos and about 50% of the highlights were him bullying our midfield.

Don’t think he’s going to pull up trees but he’ll add much needed physical presence in the middle and definitely gives us options
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 04, 2020, 12:20:03 PM
The scouting report wasn't particularly glowing.

Poor technically on the ball, Including retaining posession when pressed despite a big frame got his body shape was wrong and he was pushed off often. Very poor passing. Pressed well particularly in the upper two thirds but wasn't particularly brave in challenges.

I can see some similarities to gylfi in that off the ball he will be good shape wise, and if we want to press he can and will be a willing presser. Probably aiming to divert people into Allan's path so he can dispossess them.

Off the ball going forward I think he will be very useful in providing numbers on the break as he's fairly quick and has good runs. Think about how often gylfi arrives into the box during a break, I think we'll see the same from Doucoure but even more often, even on the quicker breaks.

On the ball he's prem average I think. He's not really going to split defences, he's definitely not going to be pinging raking balls over the top and he's not going to be jinking through two or three defenders. We will have Allan and Gomes for our passing I think. James is as good a passer as anyone too.

But yeah he is a push and run athlete who will shuttle the ball almost from one box to the other like a freight teain, which we haven't really had since Barkley. Some similarities there, too.

I don't personally think we'll see many goals.

I think he's basically an injection of energy and willing pressing to take that burden away from gylfi, and his ability to run the ball up the pitch is as good as anyone in the league if not as nice to watch it will be effective.

I'm not very excited about this signing but I think if we're reasonable in our expectations he'll be useful. Hopefully will surprise me, arriving late onto James' cutbacks would be good fun


Where is this from? Reading that you’d think his transfer fee was about £250k
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Polledreng on September 04, 2020, 12:31:44 PM
Yes that’s the other thing, always felt difficult playing against Watford.

Fed up of losing most 60/40s never mind nearly all 50/50s
Agree - way better than Højbjerg. I'm exited....  and no sour grapes here. Told @Jimmywhack (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=329) that Pierre was no way the player Gravesen was..  Didn't take long for Jimmy to  say no need for :thumbsup: on this one (Højbjerg). Hope he is satisfied with Doucouré
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 04, 2020, 12:54:50 PM
I do agree that it always felt he was difficult to play against, takes up a lot of the pitch and covers lots of ground.

Capoue arguably did more of the kind of stuff people are maybe expecting of Doucoure in actual tackles, interceptions and forward passing, but he's rates by Watford fans and opposition alike so the feeling is mutual, he makes an impression on the pitch.

Think that, assuming Gbamin is ok at some point, that taken all together the new players provide a balance to the midfield options that we just didn’t have.

It seems like they’d form a good combination that brings synergy to each other. But also provides a bit more of a consistent template e.g. if James wasn’t there then it’s easier to slot Iwobi or Bernard in. Or Gbamin into Allan’s role, or (again assuming) a revitalised Gomes into Doucoure’s role particularly if we want more control on the ball in certain games.

Again what we’re looking for is players who bring more out of others (whether intentionally or not), as players in the middle ground of abilities tend to fall with the overall flow of the team/ their teammates.

If Doucoure and Allan are running round stopping a lot it’s much easier for the others to join in.

If James wants (and is controlling) the ball all the time it’s easier for other players to commit the pass or run. And if he’s then not there it’s harder to slip out of the habit of doing it in the short term.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 04, 2020, 01:17:58 PM
Agree - way better than Højbjerg. I'm exited....  and no sour grapes here. Told @Jimmywhack (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=329) that Pierre was no way the player Gravesen was..  Didn't take long for Jimmy to  say no need for on this one (Højbjerg). Hope he is satisfied with Doucouré
I don't think it's a coincidence we went for Hojbjerg first as he is probably has more of what we needed. He was significantly better in pretty much every defensive measure last season over Doucoure, with the exception that he gets dribbled past slightly more and his passing accuracy is down 0.3.
Think Doucoure will look good compared to what we've had, but still think we could've done better going elsewhere

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Juanito on September 04, 2020, 01:33:10 PM
The scouting report wasn't particularly glowing.

Poor technically on the ball, Including retaining posession when pressed despite a big frame got his body shape was wrong and he was pushed off often. Very poor passing. Pressed well particularly in the upper two thirds but wasn't particularly brave in challenges.

I can see some similarities to gylfi in that off the ball he will be good shape wise, and if we want to press he can and will be a willing presser. Probably aiming to divert people into Allan's path so he can dispossess them.

Off the ball going forward I think he will be very useful in providing numbers on the break as he's fairly quick and has good runs. Think about how often gylfi arrives into the box during a break, I think we'll see the same from Doucoure but even more often, even on the quicker breaks.

On the ball he's prem average I think. He's not really going to split defences, he's definitely not going to be pinging raking balls over the top and he's not going to be jinking through two or three defenders. We will have Allan and Gomes for our passing I think. James is as good a passer as anyone too.

But yeah he is a push and run athlete who will shuttle the ball almost from one box to the other like a freight teain, which we haven't really had since Barkley. Some similarities there, too.

I don't personally think we'll see many goals.

I think he's basically an injection of energy and willing pressing to take that burden away from gylfi, and his ability to run the ball up the pitch is as good as anyone in the league if not as nice to watch it will be effective.

I'm not very excited about this signing but I think if we're reasonable in our expectations he'll be useful. Hopefully will surprise me, arriving late onto James' cutbacks would be good fun


Scouting report was one game, wasn’t it? I think also the context of where he was at mentally is worth considering. New team, new manager to impress, might give him that new lease of life and we get the player he was a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 04, 2020, 01:34:54 PM
I think @brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) has nailed the assessment there.

For me, more important than Doucoure is Doucoure and Allan. For far too long our few decent players have all been in different areas of the pitch with no team cohesion whatsoever.

In Doucoure and Allan we have a solid pairing in the middle that other teams, even the top teams when they are on it, will find it difficult to get past. We'll finally have a midfield that makes the opposition work to get anything from the game.

Don't be surprised if our defensive numbers get better and players who have been previously criticised, like Mina and Keane, suddenly have a really good season.

Doucoure, whilst not what you would call a baller, will be difficult to play against and will create breaks in play where we overturn possession suddenly and can capitalise on that if we're quick.

Welcome to Fortress Goodison. Somebody left the gate wide open for a while but it's closed now and we are ready to repel boarders once more.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cereal Killer on September 04, 2020, 02:30:56 PM
Nice.

He’s always looked like a bully, and a decent ball carrier whenever I’ve seen him against us.

My gran would look like a bully against our midfield from last season....
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 04, 2020, 02:42:46 PM
Agreed. Your gran has many talents  ;)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mick 1995 on September 04, 2020, 02:53:21 PM
Watched one of those ‘Welcome to Everton’ videos and about 50% of the highlights were him bullying our midfield.

Don’t think he’s going to pull up trees but he’ll add much needed physical presence in the middle and definitely gives us options

Yeah, this is why i'm happy with this signing (and Allan, moreso). I was thoroughly depressed watching teams waltz through our seemingly none-existent midfield last year.

The 3 lads we're bringing in all have graft and hard work in their bag. At the very, very least, the midfield will now be able to funnel the opposition to the least dangerous parts of the pitch/into the jaws of a tackle from the defence.

Gonna help Keane massively as well, knowing he can concentrate on his job and not stressing about the fact the only person he can see in front of him in blue is DCL.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 04, 2020, 03:07:53 PM
I alluded to a stat the other day but couldn’t remember it properly, but then saw it again a min ago:

the season before last, Doucoure spent more time in the opposition’s box, than any other CM in the top 5 leagues.

I’m not sure what they define a CM, but assume that excludes no 10s etc.

That trait will definitely help us and is something we really miss. You’d also like to think he’ll get more goals/create chances/create mayhem - with better players around him.

That’s why I see this signing as being as important as Allan - he’ll break the lines and cause the opposition all sorts of problems, whilst still offering a physical presence and tactical discipline, when out of possession.

Doucoure and Allan will be an awesome pairing.




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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 04, 2020, 03:19:16 PM
I think people are going to be amazed at the amount of legs, movement and energy that Doucoure and Allan have. Especially compared to our slow, lumbering previous players in central mid - Sig, Schneiderlin and (although Id like to keep Tom) Davies just hasnt got the pace/legs/ability for such a key area yet. Were going to see a huge difference soon...
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cereal Killer on September 04, 2020, 03:44:10 PM
Agreed. Your gran has many talents  ;)

Steady Wayne  :smug:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 04, 2020, 04:05:00 PM
Doucoure is central to everything we want to do. The energy he will provide in getting up and down the pitch will be very important, and will have a crucial role in getting in the opposition box and making attacking runs. I am thinking back to Tim Cahill and the quality he used to produce in the box.

Previously, all of our central midfielders have just been happy to sit outside the box and pass sideways. This will now change.

You would expect Allan to be the sitting midfielder who will dictate play, with Doucoure more of a livewire, playing off of either Gomes/Rodriguez/Richarlison/DCL.

What will be interesting is if Gomes will have a place in our starting lineup. It will be a straight battle between him and Doucoure in my opinion.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 04, 2020, 04:08:28 PM
My gran would look like a bully against our midfield from last season....

Exactly, it’s why I needed confirmation if he was any good at all.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 04, 2020, 04:08:48 PM
Scouting report was one game, wasn’t it? I think also the context of where he was at mentally is worth considering. New team, new manager to impress, might give him that new lease of life and we get the player he was a couple of years ago.

Scouting report was one game, wasn’t it? I think also the context of where he was at mentally is worth considering. New team, new manager to impress, might give him that new lease of life and we get the player he was a couple of years ago.

Yeah should have mentioned really it was ONE game, during a season he played out of position and out of form.

Doubt we'll see a revolution in his technical ability and it does sort line up with his statsbomb profile.

Tbh I think if this latest turn in the 'project' works he will be loved for his work ethic and driving the side forward, if the side in general falters I think he will get the 'cant do keepie ups' treatment.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 04, 2020, 04:11:35 PM
Think that, assuming Gbamin is ok at some point, that taken all together the new players provide a balance to the midfield options that we just didn’t have.

It seems like they’d form a good combination that brings synergy to each other. But also provides a bit more of a consistent template e.g. if James wasn’t there then it’s easier to slot Iwobi or Bernard in. Or Gbamin into Allan’s role, or (again assuming) a revitalised Gomes into Doucoure’s role particularly if we want more control on the ball in certain games.

Again what we’re looking for is players who bring more out of others (whether intentionally or not), as players in the middle ground of abilities tend to fall with the overall flow of the team/ their teammates.

If Doucoure and Allan are running round stopping a lot it’s much easier for the others to join in.

If James wants (and is controlling) the ball all the time it’s easier for other players to commit the pass or run. And if he’s then not there it’s harder to slip out of the habit of doing it in the short term.

Yes agree, he's a system specific signing which we've not been great at post Moyes so despite my concerns around him as a player I think he is more likely to be a success than say Kean who is more like a talented player available at a snip so gamble.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: cantoffee on September 04, 2020, 06:07:46 PM
I do agree that it always felt he was difficult to play against, takes up a lot of the pitch and covers lots of ground.

Capoue arguably did more of the kind of stuff people are maybe expecting of Doucoure in actual tackles, interceptions and forward passing, but he's rates by Watford fans and opposition alike so the feeling is mutual, he makes an impression on the pitch.
Capoue is good. Think he flew under the radar a bit there and maybe his age has put people off but if I'm a newcomer to the league he's a great addition.

Physicality, good in the air, good tackles, and decent passer of the ball.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 04, 2020, 06:12:03 PM
Have to say ive just watched a youtewb of abdi and he looked class with quite a lot of saucy stuff haha

If he was wearing an Angers shirt and powering through the Toulouse midfield I'd probably be going crazy for him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on September 04, 2020, 06:24:54 PM
Have to say ive just watched a youtewb of abdi and he looked class with quite a lot of saucy stuff haha

If he was wearing an Angers shirt and powering through the Toulouse midfield I'd probably be going crazy for him.

Post the vid man!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 04, 2020, 07:10:18 PM
Must be done, hes unfollowed the S*n now
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 04, 2020, 09:26:49 PM
I think @brap2 (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=666) has nailed the assessment there.

For me, more important than Doucoure is Doucoure and Allan. For far too long our few decent players have all been in different areas of the pitch with no team cohesion whatsoever.

In Doucoure and Allan we have a solid pairing in the middle that other teams, even the top teams when they are on it, will find it difficult to get past. We'll finally have a midfield that makes the opposition work to get anything from the game.

Don't be surprised if our defensive numbers get better and players who have been previously criticised, like Mina and Keane, suddenly have a really good season.

Doucoure, whilst not what you would call a baller, will be difficult to play against and will create breaks in play where we overturn possession suddenly and can capitalise on that if we're quick.

Welcome to Fortress Goodison. Somebody left the gate wide open for a while but it's closed now and we are ready to repel boarders once more.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/RBEUIVI6ey5Ta/giphy.gif)

I think people are going to be amazed at the amount of legs, movement and energy that Doucoure and Allan have. Especially compared to our slow, lumbering previous players in central mid - Sig, Schneiderlin and (although Id like to keep Tom) Davies just hasnt got the pace/legs/ability for such a key area yet. Were going to see a huge difference soon...

Not me, I knew it all along. Please don't go searching for my posts where I said I didn't want either of these guys. *runs to go delete them from existence*
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on September 05, 2020, 02:06:02 AM
https://twitter.com/neilrim/status/1301957434852990977
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on September 05, 2020, 02:16:56 AM
Sorry for being a massive racist if that isn't Doucoure
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bigmanbob on September 05, 2020, 02:49:57 AM
Sorry for being a massive racist if that isn't Doucoure
ha ha, don't worry mate it is, I've seen other photies
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on September 05, 2020, 03:26:16 AM
Sorry for being a massive racist if that isn't Doucoure
Dont start, I had enough of this last season with the Iwobi Kean kick off.

And to top it off, a commentator got them mixed up in one of our games.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on September 05, 2020, 03:45:18 AM
Dont start, I had enough of this last season with the Iwobi Kean kick off.

And to top it off, a commentator got them mixed up in one of our games.
Remember when that used to happy with Gravesen and Carsley.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on September 05, 2020, 03:46:16 AM
Sorry for being a massive racist if that isn't Doucoure

Made up we’re getting Zouma back.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 05, 2020, 04:18:22 AM
Sorry for being a massive racist if that isn't Doucoure

Just make sure you don’t turn up the brightness for a better look or you’ll be accused of whitewashing...
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 05, 2020, 04:27:22 AM
Made up we’re getting Zouma back.

Not gonna lie, that took me a minute.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 05, 2020, 04:28:12 AM
Just make sure you don’t turn up the brightness for a better look or you’ll be accused of whitewashing...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Q7ozWVYCR0nyW2rvPW/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Thornton_19 on September 05, 2020, 05:15:18 AM
Dont start, I had enough of this last season with the Iwobi Kean kick off.

And to top it off, a commentator got them mixed up in one of our games.
After the first home game of the season my Uncle was praising Iwobi even though he didnt get on. It was Kean. Haha
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Omar on September 05, 2020, 04:12:08 PM
Dont start, I had enough of this last season with the Iwobi Kean kick off.

And to top it off, a commentator got them mixed up in one of our games.

They both had nearly the exact hair style and the number 7 on each.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 05, 2020, 11:39:26 PM
https://twitter.com/adamleventhal/status/1302281662282248192?s=
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 06, 2020, 12:23:57 AM
Seems to be widely accepted that it will be Monday...

https://twitter.com/saberdesfa/status/1302188653654007808?s=

No explanation why anywhere.

Also not sure if it means the press conference or whatever. Surely we’d want him in training.

Or will there not be training until Monday?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 06, 2020, 12:28:15 AM
Seems to be widely accepted that it will be Monday...

https://twitter.com/saberdesfa/status/1302188653654007808?s=

No explanation why anywhere.

Also not sure if it means the press conference or whatever. Surely we’d want him in training.

Or will there not be training until Monday?

Maybe Sunday belongs to James :)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 06, 2020, 12:28:39 AM
Seems to be widely accepted that it will be Monday...

https://twitter.com/saberdesfa/status/1302188653654007808?s=

No explanation why anywhere.

Also not sure if it means the press conference or whatever. Surely we’d want him in training.

Or will there not be training until Monday?

Usually get the day off after a game, don't they?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 06, 2020, 12:38:18 AM
Usually get the day off after a game, don't they?

Yeah normally.

Not sure in preseason.

Suppose the international players will still be away/ on their way back so probably isn’t anything
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Omar on September 06, 2020, 12:39:41 AM
Maybe Sunday belongs to James :)

Fucks’ sake, I hope so. Lad needs to train.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on September 06, 2020, 12:50:11 AM
Fucks’ sake, I hope so. Lad needs to train.

Reckon four days training with the rest of the lads and newbies before the Spurs match is probably o.k.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 07, 2020, 11:50:13 PM
All gone a bit quiet on the Doucouré front with the James situation
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 07, 2020, 11:55:35 PM
All gone a bit quiet on the Doucouré front with the James situation

Hopefully that means it's all going to plan and nobody's er... acting up?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 12:12:02 AM
All gone a bit quiet on the Doucouré front with the James situation

He took a minute to visit the forum, read the James thread, and decided he'd rather play in the Championship.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 08, 2020, 12:15:42 AM
Still trying to remove the snake from his arse.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: MmmblueBernard on September 08, 2020, 12:20:38 AM
Still trying to remove the snake from his arse.

There are some doubts creeping in about his ability to perform week in week out. His form is a bit hit and misssssssssssss
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: cantoffee on September 08, 2020, 02:21:21 AM
Announce dacoure ffs lads get on with it!

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 02:22:33 AM
WhY hAsN't He SiGnEd YeT?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 08, 2020, 02:23:18 AM
9pm ?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: mikey_blue on September 08, 2020, 02:25:11 AM
Apparently he’s been having panic attacks all weekend. Big Duncs had to go round with his therapy pigeon to calm him down. Should he announced soon.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 08, 2020, 02:26:43 AM
Apparently he’s been having panic attacks all weekend. Big Duncs had to go round with his therapy pigeon to calm him down. Should he announced soon.

Therapy pigeon? Haha
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 02:27:13 AM
Apparently he’s been having panic attacks all weekend. Big Duncs had to go round with his therapy pigeon to calm him down. Should he announced soon.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/NjevnbNiUmeLm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Verm on September 08, 2020, 02:40:09 AM
Feel sorry for him now, going to feel like such an anti climax after tonight.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on September 08, 2020, 02:41:14 AM
Apparently he’s been having panic attacks all weekend. Big Duncs had to go round with his therapy pigeon to calm him down. Should he announced soon.
Where does the therapy pigeon go? It’s to replace the snake?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on September 08, 2020, 02:42:21 AM
Where does the therapy pigeon go? It's to replace the snake?
It’s bait to get the snake out.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Crackling on September 08, 2020, 02:43:26 AM
Obviously waiting for Digne to get back so he can do the pre reveal video.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: American Evertonian on September 08, 2020, 03:09:05 AM
Next up
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on September 08, 2020, 03:46:11 AM
Sneaky :)
https://twitter.com/SteveBiggert/status/1303070619467091969
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 08, 2020, 05:41:18 AM
https://twitter.com/AdamLeventhal/status/1303100085648134144
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: irishtoffee on September 08, 2020, 06:59:22 AM
Tell Watford we’ll take Pereyra too. We could do with an Argentine to continue our South American trend
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 07:21:55 AM
https://twitter.com/AdamLeventhal/status/1303100085648134144

I'm not really one for hyperbole, but we're probably the best team in the Prem now.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on September 08, 2020, 07:53:27 AM
I'm not really one for hyperbole, but we're probably the best team in the Prem now.
ffs mate. whats with the probably have some conviction
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Lazarou on September 08, 2020, 02:52:44 PM
I wonder if they will be lighting up the Eiffel Tower blue for today's business.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/7ZjmsISzWnreE/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 08, 2020, 02:56:44 PM
Ok.


I am fucking ready for this one now.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 08, 2020, 03:00:09 PM
ANNOUNCE DOUCOURE!
FLAP FLAP FLAP!!!!
ANNOUNCE DAMN YOU
ANNOUNCE!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on September 08, 2020, 03:04:06 PM
I wonder if they will be lighting up the Eiffel Tower blue for today's business.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/7ZjmsISzWnreE/giphy.gif)
they're gonna put the castle (as my son calls it) on the french flag and change the name of the country to RANEFC
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Morta75 on September 08, 2020, 03:24:42 PM
Get him in and send out Siggy, Delph  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on September 08, 2020, 03:30:47 PM
Feel a little sorry for the lad with the announcements in this order - think he'll come to be a fan favourite, but the reveal is going to be a bit 'after the Lord Mayor's show' isn't it!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Polledreng on September 08, 2020, 03:38:34 PM
Feel a little sorry for the lad with the announcements in this order - think he'll come to be a fan favourite, but the reveal is going to be a bit 'after the Lord Mayor's show' isn't it!
Call me stupid - but this is the one I am most excited about.... Then again my favourite danish player in the 80ties was Jens Jørgen Bertelsen allthough he played with Arnesen, Laudrup, Olsen, Elkjær  and more... Still miss Peter Reid and Joe Parkinson....
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 08, 2020, 03:40:16 PM
Call me stupid - but this is the one I am most excited about.... Then again my favourite danish player in the 80ties was Jens Jørgen Bertelsen allthough he played with Arnesen, Laudrup, Olsen, Elkjær  and more... Still miss Peter Reid and Joe Parkinson....

You're stupid ;)

Allan's clearly a better player and more important ;)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Polledreng on September 08, 2020, 03:40:55 PM
You're stupid ;)

Allan's clearly a better player and more important ;)
probably right...
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on September 08, 2020, 03:44:15 PM
Bit younger than the other 2 as well so could prove to be the best value
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 08, 2020, 04:58:33 PM
I'm not really one for hyperbole, but we're probably the best team in the Prem now.

Probably? Miserable bugger!!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 08, 2020, 05:46:53 PM
https://twitter.com/NicoSchira/status/1303277481911357440?s=19

Should have posted here, sorry
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Lazarou on September 08, 2020, 05:55:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QknuJj1.jpg)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 08, 2020, 05:57:03 PM
https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1303284768419835904
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bigmanbob on September 08, 2020, 06:03:42 PM
I'm all wanked out, I'm spent, can we not leave it a day or two till I'm ready to go again
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 08, 2020, 06:06:58 PM
Is fucking right da bloos.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 08, 2020, 06:07:52 PM
Gotta be a Lucas Digne "Knows something" surely? Or possibly Niels Nkounku?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Risky on September 08, 2020, 06:10:53 PM
Gotta be a Lucas Digne "Knows something" surely? Or possibly Niels Nkounku?

I'd get Mikael Madar in for this one
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Lxxx on September 08, 2020, 06:36:42 PM
Probably the player who will make the most difference out of the three signings.

Allan will fill the Gana role, which is great but even with him in the side we still lacked someone to take the ball from the edge of our own box to the final third and transition defence to attack.

James will hopefully bring a final end product to our play but if we are still passing sideways in our slow build up he won't get it in the right areas at the right times.

Doucore will hopefully be the box to box player we have been sorely lacking for as long as I can remember, apart from a brief glimpse in a young Barkley. Someone with not just the ability but the intent to open up the legs and take the pressure off. Just hope we have got him at the right age though.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bornblue88 on September 08, 2020, 07:21:09 PM
Very happy at £25m. These 3 signings mean we have a complete midfield now UTFT
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 08, 2020, 07:51:53 PM
Some great business going on in this window. I just hope this isn't the last of it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 08, 2020, 07:57:46 PM
Aye. Maxi Gomez and Arias next then :)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 08:00:50 PM
Probably? Miserable bugger!!

Still waiting for us to proper hug it out.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 08:01:53 PM
Gotta be a Lucas Digne "Knows something" surely? Or possibly Niels Nkounku?

Nkounkou with visible cue cards would be boss. And hilarious.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on September 08, 2020, 08:27:25 PM
We all know it would end up being the Gallic shrug and we'd still be none the wiser :)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 08, 2020, 09:25:43 PM
Still waiting for us to proper hug it out.

We are alright. I’m more annoyed by the fact that I have to click to see you posts now than the sneering in said posts 😉
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 10:17:46 PM
We are alright. I’m more annoyed by the fact that I have to click to see you posts now than the sneering in said posts 😉

Just go remove me from your block list, lol.

Upper right corner click the v next to your username > Forum Profile > Modify Profile (will auto-drop down) > Buddies/Ignore List > Edit Ignore List > Click 'X' on the row where my name is.

Then send ((( virtual hugs )))
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: markB on September 08, 2020, 10:20:01 PM
Just go remove me from your block list, lol.

Upper right corner click the v next to your username > Forum Profile > Modify Profile (will auto-drop down) > Buddies/Ignore List > Edit Ignore List > Click 'X' on the row where my name is.

Then send ((( virtual hugs )))

I can block you !!!!!!!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 08, 2020, 10:20:05 PM
Just go remove me from your block list, lol.

Upper right corner click the v next to your username > Forum Profile > Modify Profile (will auto-drop down) > Buddies/Ignore List > Edit Ignore List > Click 'X' on the row where my name is.

Then send ((( virtual hugs )))

That’s some Buck Rogers shit!

Also, adults shouldn’t be blocking each other on football forums, really. Just talk it out, lads.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 10:20:22 PM
I can block you !!!!!!!

God I fucking hope so.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 10:20:46 PM
That’s some Buck Rogers shit!

Also, adults shouldn’t be blocking each other on football forums, really. Just talk it out, lads.

hang on, gotta go unblock you
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: markB on September 08, 2020, 10:21:19 PM
God I fucking hope so.

but then how would you learn about football
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 10:25:49 PM
but then how would you learn about football

From everyone else who actually knows about it.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/8D7FaGd2QIXG8/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: markB on September 08, 2020, 10:27:01 PM
From everyone else who actually knows about it.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/8D7FaGd2QIXG8/giphy.gif)

what like all then that think James as come here to play as an 8
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on September 08, 2020, 11:26:48 PM
So has he signed yet or what? Not as much flap about this one it seems.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 08, 2020, 11:33:56 PM
So has he signed yet or what? Not as much flap about this one it seems.

He's signed, and will be announced today (as per the dude who's been pretty damned reliable this window, Fabrizio Romano).
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Audrey Horne on September 08, 2020, 11:34:49 PM
Changed his location to Liverpool on twitter and taken Watford off his bio.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 09, 2020, 12:05:03 AM
Followed a tonne of Everton players on Instagram too.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on September 09, 2020, 12:07:57 AM
what like all then that think James as come here to play as an 8
I know right, we put a massive 19 on a fucking tower in bogota and people still dont get it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 09, 2020, 12:25:45 AM
Will wear 16 apparently
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on September 09, 2020, 12:25:53 AM
Here we go!
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1303383875591311362
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 09, 2020, 12:26:02 AM
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1303383875591311362
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: cantoffee on September 09, 2020, 12:28:36 AM
Changed his location to Liverpool on twitter and taken Watford off his bio.
'Unzips pants'

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on September 09, 2020, 12:29:35 AM
https://twitter.com/SamG_9/status/1303383957355065345
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: love is love on September 09, 2020, 12:29:41 AM
Everton must have the hottest group of players, you are bamboozled by James. Gomes and DCL and Digne makes a tweet.  :hug:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 09, 2020, 12:30:17 AM
New midfield?

(https://media.makeameme.org/created/completed-it-mate-b8a5393bdc.jpg)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on September 09, 2020, 12:30:21 AM
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1303385128404758530
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on September 09, 2020, 12:30:23 AM
Deleted
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 09, 2020, 12:31:00 AM
'Unzips pants'

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Be honest. Just how chafed are you by now?

https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1303385128404758530

This is the best week ever. Getting married included in that statement.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on September 09, 2020, 12:31:38 AM
Myers says 3 year with club option of a fourth.

Marcel loving that addon this window and I think it's a stroke if genius!!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 09, 2020, 12:39:29 AM
These team friendly deals are so refreshing. Really feels like a new era, boys.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 09, 2020, 12:40:12 AM
Cantoffee is deffo on some sort of register


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Silas on September 09, 2020, 12:41:45 AM
One of the worst midfields in the league to one of the best in three days. Crazy
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Polledreng on September 09, 2020, 12:43:52 AM
YES......
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ally2 on September 09, 2020, 12:48:13 AM
Excellent again
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 09, 2020, 12:48:17 AM
Wow. Checked his Twitter with his old pic. Drove home which took about 20 mins.

Refreshed his Twitter and there he is in the Royal blue.

Great window this
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 09, 2020, 12:48:29 AM
Glad it was Digne too.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 09, 2020, 12:49:40 AM
Genuinely have a fighting chance at breaking the top 6 this year if that midfield settles in well. Absolutely no doubt that we have gone hell for leather in the midfield area which is exactly what was required.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: love is love on September 09, 2020, 12:51:55 AM
Everton offered like 35-40 million for him last summer on the recommendation of marco silva.

 Watford wanted 50 million. According to Waford fans he had a bad season, because his head was turned.

He looked average in the games I watched. Marco's record on signings: He has managed is amazing.

 Obviously Brand kept up the interest if he is signing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 09, 2020, 12:52:13 AM
Brilliant. The engine room is sorted!

No doubt Ancelotti is a massive influence on these deals but let's not overlook the fact that Brands having a blinder!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 09, 2020, 12:54:06 AM
I'd love to see the reaction of the Watford fan who made up that blag quote about him saying never in a million years would he even think twice about signing for us because we are shite and he wants a CL club.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 09, 2020, 12:55:08 AM
Genuinely have a fighting chance at breaking the top 6 this year if that midfield settles in well. Absolutely no doubt that we have gone hell for leather in the midfield area which is exactly what was required.

Think about how many extra points we could get with (let's call it best case but certainly attainable):

Richarlison - 16-18 goals
DCL - 16-18 goals
Kean - 6-8 goals
James/Doucoure - 10-12 goals
Iwobi/Bernard/Gordon - 10 goals
Walcott - 3-5 goals

That's the difference between 12th & 6th, maybe even 5th!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: pjk on September 09, 2020, 12:56:01 AM
Deleted. I think there's enough of those tweets. Still; another one in ;D
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on September 09, 2020, 12:56:40 AM
Really excited to see what the new Everton looks like
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: markB on September 09, 2020, 12:56:45 AM
did not see this one coming well done to the club for getting this all done on the QT

dare we start to hope again

and we even now have the players to play that fucking 4231 but 433 all the way
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: love is love on September 09, 2020, 01:00:41 AM
Genuinely have a fighting chance at breaking the top 6 this year if that midfield settles in well. Absolutely no doubt that we have gone hell for leather in the midfield area which is exactly what was required.

Everton have finished in the mighty top 6 loads of times, it has done nothing for the club.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 09, 2020, 01:02:14 AM
Everton have finished in the mighty top 6 loads of times, it has done nothing for the club.

I bet you're a ton of fun at parties.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 09, 2020, 01:02:23 AM
Think about how many extra points we could get with (let's call it best case but certainly attainable):

Richarlison - 16-18 goals
DCL - 16-18 goals
Kean - 6-8 goals
James/Doucoure - 10-12 goals
Iwobi/Bernard/Gordon - 10 goals
Walcott - 3-5 goals

That's the difference between 12th & 6th, maybe even 5th!

At the very least, it makes us competitive amongst Wolves and Leicester again, and we wouldn’t have been without these signings.

Doucoure was central for this season as he knows the PL and can hit the ground running. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him starting against Spurs. 
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on September 09, 2020, 01:04:13 AM
Think all three have to be in with a shout of starting. I expect Doucoure and Allan will and James on the bench.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 09, 2020, 01:05:45 AM
At the very least, it makes us competitive amongst Wolves and Leicester again, and we wouldn't have been without these signings.

Doucoure was central for this season as he knows the PL and can hit the ground running. Wouldn't be surprised to see him starting against Spurs.
I can see all of them starting against Spurs now and why not, should have a good number of days training and probably came in with a good level of fitness too. Really excited to see how we line up

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on September 09, 2020, 01:14:18 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Matt_Cheetham/status/1303394670794375169
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 09, 2020, 01:20:20 AM
Think all three have to be in with a shout of starting. I expect Doucoure and Allan will and James on the bench.

I think we'd be foolish to play James at all. He's not been training until this week, and didn't even get more than 400 total minutes with Madrid in 2020. With the somewhat injury concerns, there's no reason to rush him. Or risk a Gbamin-like situation IMO.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Paddockoldie on September 09, 2020, 01:21:35 AM
Now I'm happy... we have a midfield that can fight a bit, play a lot and compete.. exciting times ahead? Think Richarlison is gonna have a great season feeding off these.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Outworlder47 on September 09, 2020, 01:22:38 AM
Think about how many extra points we could get with (let's call it best case but certainly attainable):

Richarlison - 16-18 goals
DCL - 16-18 goals
Kean - 6-8 goals
James/Doucoure - 10-12 goals
Iwobi/Bernard/Gordon - 10 goals
Walcott - 3-5 goals

That's the difference between 12th & 6th, maybe even 5th!

On the low end of those, that's 61 goals. Call it 65 with defenders, OG, and anything else that pops up, and on a goals scored footing that's competitive with anyone bar City and Liverpool.

I do think +20 goals (we scored 44 in the league this past season) is a big stretch, as it requires a lot to go well. But with a new, dynamic midfield that takes pressure off both the back and the front, it doesn't feel that unattainable. The big piece is goals from out wide, assuming Rodríguez is more central. You have to figure that Rodríguez is the third part of a triumvirate attack with Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison, so the key piece is identifying places for goals aside from those three.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Sixx1402 on September 09, 2020, 01:26:27 AM
I am, I love parties! Is there one going on???
I bet you're a ton of fun at parties.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 09, 2020, 01:27:28 AM
On the low end of those, that's 61 goals. Call it 65 with defenders, OG, and anything else that pops up, and on a goals scored footing that's competitive with anyone bar City and Liverpool.

I do think +20 goals (we scored 44 in the league this past season) is a big stretch, as it requires a lot to go well. But with a new, dynamic midfield that takes pressure off both the back and the front, it doesn't feel that unattainable. The big piece is goals from out wide, assuming Rodríguez is more central. You have to figure that Rodríguez is the third part of a triumvirate attack with Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison, so the key piece is identifying places for goals aside from those three.

Even if we "only" get to say, 55 goals, what do you think those 11 goals could have done for us? On top of that, without a turnstile midfield for opponents to run through, we should concede FAR fewer than 56 goals. Far fewer. Let's call it 55 goals, 45 against. That's got to be worth 12 points. Which would've been 61, or 6th place.

Fuck me I'm already set up to be devastated. lolol
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Trowel on September 09, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
https://twitter.com/WatfordFC/status/1303386366923935745
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on September 09, 2020, 01:32:06 AM
Welcome to Everton Abdoulaye :)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Outworlder47 on September 09, 2020, 01:37:28 AM
Even if we "only" get to say, 55 goals, what do you think those 11 goals could have done for us? On top of that, without a turnstile midfield for opponents to run through, we should concede FAR fewer than 56 goals. Far fewer. Let's call it 55 goals, 45 against. That's got to be worth 12 points. Which would've been 61, or 6th place.

Fuck me I'm already set up to be devastated. lolol

Indeed. In the Prem, 1 goal for = 1 point, almost. But GD correlates more strongly, and a +10 GD would put us around 59 points. (+15 would be ~61, and +20 would be ~65, historically.)

I'd actually agree with you that scoring 10 more and allowing 10 less are both reasonable and attainable targets, and would likely put us in a group with Leicester/Wolves/Arsenal for the 6-9 spots.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: love is love on September 09, 2020, 01:38:33 AM
He is going to be amazing 2 months. Love it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 09, 2020, 01:41:35 AM
Indeed. In the Prem, 1 goal for = 1 point, almost. But GD correlates more strongly, and a +10 GD would put us around 59 points. (+15 would be ~61, and +20 would be ~65, historically.)

I'd actually agree with you that scoring 10 more and allowing 10 less are both reasonable and attainable targets, and would likely put us in a group with Leicester/Wolves/Arsenal for the 6-9 spots.

What do you mean 'actually?' You should always agree with me, it's just easier that way.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 09, 2020, 01:57:33 AM
https://twitter.com/WatfordFC/status/1303386366923935745

No sour grapes on that thread, nothing but love tbh 👌🏼
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 09, 2020, 02:03:27 AM
Typical, sat in all afternoon waiting for this, go out to footy and miss it, sake Everton! This signing is the most important of the 3, absolutely delighted.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 09, 2020, 02:07:23 AM
Lovely stuff. Gettings things done.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 09, 2020, 02:23:37 AM
https://twitter.com/WatfordFC/status/1303386366923935745

Does a bit of everything and does it all very well by the look of it. Nice.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 09, 2020, 02:26:50 AM
https://twitter.com/WatfordFC/status/1303386366923935745

To be honest that video has made me look at him differently.

I didn't realise how much he contributed in attack. I thought he popped up occasionally but it seems like the offensive contribution is actually a bigger part of his game than I thought.

Even more excited now!

That goal where he steamed through Seamus though. Imperious.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 09, 2020, 02:48:13 AM
To be honest that video has made me look at him differently.

I didn't realise how much he contributed in attack. I thought he popped up occasionally but it seems like the offensive contribution is actually a bigger part of his game than I thought.

Even more excited now!

That goal where he steamed through Seamus though. Imperious.

I know he's not a prolific scorer, but did you guys take note of how he scored? Cutting in from the left and using his right foot to switch to his left for a rocket into the corner. Cutting in from the left and using his left foot to switch to his right and a rocket into the corner. A laser from distance. Dribbling from the edge of the area through 4 men. One-touch as he's cutting through the box. A header after serious ups. Hot damn.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Omar on September 09, 2020, 03:00:44 AM
been out for a while, have I missed anything, lads?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on September 09, 2020, 03:02:09 AM
been out for a while, have I missed anything, lads?

Depending if you mean 3 hours or 3 days there may be a thread or two worth reading!!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 09, 2020, 03:07:58 AM
I can't believe he's only 6 foot he looks absolutely massive.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee1 on September 09, 2020, 03:11:15 AM
I can't believe he's only 6 foot he looks absolutely massive.

Looks pretty quick and mobile too - will be nice to see some dynamism in our midfield and not the statues of last season,
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Goaljira on September 09, 2020, 03:21:18 AM
Got Yaya Toure vibes watching that video.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 09, 2020, 03:22:55 AM
Looks pretty quick and mobile too - will be nice to see some dynamism in our midfield and not the statues of last season,

I remember when Silva come in i said I would have loved to see what he could have done with Barkley in the Doucoure role.

There's definitely some similarities in the single mindedness of early Barkley, drop your shoulder and leather it when you get in and around the box.

We've massively missed that mobility and drive since Barkley and McCarthy havent been available. It's a prem must for me - drive and intent from the middle of the pitch. There might be some questions around some of his technical abilities, but I think these days being imposing, athletic, making good decisions and being dangerous when striking a ball are much much more important.

Actually quite excited to see how he fits in now you know.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: IPCannock on September 09, 2020, 03:23:18 AM
I can't believe he's only 6 foot he looks absolutely massive.

Me too. I had him down for about six two or six three having seen him play. He just looks bigger doesn't he?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 09, 2020, 03:25:36 AM
Me too. I had him down for about six two or six three having seen him play. He just looks bigger doesn't he?

Just ask Seamus.

"The light grew dimmer, like an eclipse, and I looked up to see this floating giant in the sky up above me..."
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 09, 2020, 03:28:03 AM
Gonna be our Yaya
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bornblue88 on September 09, 2020, 04:05:31 AM
Abdi, abdi abdi, abdi abdi, abdi, abdi Doucouré!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Omar on September 09, 2020, 05:44:34 AM
Gonna be our Yaya

Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 09, 2020, 06:09:48 AM
Gonna be our Yaya

Going to take a long long time but comments like this is why BLM needs to be around. You not going to see it and I know I will be called all sorts of things and PC gone mad but people need to change the way they think. Need to think before posting or speaking.

Things just have to change.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Goaljira on September 09, 2020, 12:00:40 PM
Going to take a long long time but comments like this is why BLM needs to be around. You not going to see it and I know I will be called all sorts of things and PC gone mad but people need to change the way they think. Need to think before posting or speaking.

Things just have to change.

But the way he drives forward in that video is massively reminiscent of what Yaya Toure did for City?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: AllyBlue14 on September 09, 2020, 12:53:46 PM
Going to take a long long time but comments like this is why BLM needs to be around. You not going to see it and I know I will be called all sorts of things and PC gone mad but people need to change the way they think. Need to think before posting or speaking.

Things just have to change.

I must say, I haven't seen the video but as soon as I read it, this was my first thought too.

But then, should we not draw parallels between 2 black players at all? Would finding a white player comparison, (even though another black player would be more accurate) not be even more detrimental?

I think it's a shame that buying a black player (I remember there being some dispute on here over Iwobi last year) can lead to some sort of contentious race issue. I get the point here - and would like to think I understand the reasoning better now than even a few months ago - but surely it's ok to hope that one box-to-box midfielder can emulate the achievements of another, very successful box-to-box midfielder?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 09, 2020, 01:08:44 PM
Surely likening a black player to another of a similar style isn’t racist. Is calling someone the new Lionel Messi because they are Argentinian a problem. Is likening a chubby flair player to le tissier fat shaming? Not sure how anyone could be offended in this instance. When people call me Burnley’s Brad Pitt i assume it’s mainly cos I’m pretty rather than white
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 09, 2020, 01:18:06 PM
Going to take a long long time but comments like this is why BLM needs to be around. You not going to see it and I know I will be called all sorts of things and PC gone mad but people need to change the way they think. Need to think before posting or speaking.

Things just have to change.

I must admit that it made me think about this too.

But I'm not familiar enough with Doucoure's style of play to decide if this is a fair comparison or not.

What is important is that I think this has made people more aware of the issue and that we can discuss it without calling each other 'all sorts of things'.

I'm glad you called it out. I'm glad you referenced BLM. I hope any further discussion on this does not alienate or target the OP, but instead looks at the merits of what was said and the dangers of what could be inferred.

Let's continue to be open about discussing race issues on here because I have learned a lot from all of you guys and remember: we're all Blue on here.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 09, 2020, 01:36:47 PM
Going to take a long long time but comments like this is why BLM needs to be around. You not going to see it and I know I will be called all sorts of things and PC gone mad but people need to change the way they think. Need to think before posting or speaking.

Things just have to change.
I don't think people do need to stop and think if its a genuine comment based on an observation, I haven't watched the video but if he thought there were parallels to Toure that's fine?
I think the BLM movement has been amazing, but I also think there's a tipping point and we're in danger of going over that and almost making it less powerful.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on September 09, 2020, 02:31:59 PM
But the way he drives forward in that video is massively reminiscent of what Yaya Toure did for City?

And Vieira for Arsenal
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on September 09, 2020, 02:41:47 PM
And Vieira for Arsenal

As Allan would be our Reid.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 09, 2020, 03:00:39 PM
Going to take a long long time but comments like this is why BLM needs to be around. You not going to see it and I know I will be called all sorts of things and PC gone mad but people need to change the way they think. Need to think before posting or speaking.

Things just have to change.

I hate having to go here, but....My dad is black, my mam is white, I am essentially half black
I am not trying to embarrass anyone by addressing this, but simply pointing out that calling someone out as being racist for comparing 2 footballers of similar styles due to their both being black....

I am also Irish born, if we signed a hard as nails ball winner from Dublin tomorrow and people wondered could he be our Roy Keane, would that be xenophobic by this rationale?
Its absolute nonsense

I am sure you meant well, but it's really unhelpful to call out racism where there is absolutely none, as it dilutes the calling of same when there IS something to be said due to people automatically thinking "here we go again"
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mick 1995 on September 09, 2020, 04:19:35 PM
I agree in principle with you @Confucius (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=196) , and what you're saying happens far too often.

However, in the premier league era, the only midfielders that have made an impact that roles are named after them are:
Viera/Keane
Toure
Kante (and for us alone, Gana)
Gerrard/Lampard

Only one of them comparisons would be called out for racism i feel.

However, i'm very much a middle-aged white man and i have no authority in any argument about what constitutes racism.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 09, 2020, 04:24:21 PM
I agree in principle with you @Confucius (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=196) , and what you're saying happens far too often.

However, in the premier league era, the only midfielders that have made an impact that roles are named after them are:
Viera/Keane
Toure
Kante (and for us alone, Gana)
Gerrard/Lampard

Only one of them comparisons would be called out for racism i feel.

However, i'm very much a middle-aged white man and i have no authority in any argument about what constitutes racism.

Add Makelele
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on September 09, 2020, 04:33:51 PM
He’s nothing like Yaya Toure to be fair.

I don’t get that comparison.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee1 on September 09, 2020, 04:37:07 PM
Just hope he, Allan and James play (some part) on Sunday and we start the season with not only a win but a win at one of the so-called elite teams in the league.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on September 09, 2020, 04:46:48 PM
You would hope that even without James playing we will be super dangerous on the break now we have pace and energy and the ability to break down attacks in midfield.

Allan is by all accounts no slouch, Richarlison we all know about, DCL is possibly the fastest player on the team and Walcott is very good at getting in behind defences with intelligent runs. Gordon is pacy too.

Was listening to a Podcast with a Watford reporter who said that Doucoure and Capoue had a very good understanding of who would attack and press forward and who would sit. Hopefully him and Allan form the same relationship

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 09, 2020, 04:57:03 PM
He’s nothing like Yaya Toure to be fair.

I don’t get that comparison.

That was my first thought, too.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on September 09, 2020, 05:12:37 PM
That was my first thought, too.

He has arms, legs..you know, a head. Plays football in midfield and joins in with the attack, scores goals, and you know, he has a similar skin colour.

Almost identical mate.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 09, 2020, 05:16:20 PM
He has arms, legs..you know, a head. Plays football in midfield and joins in with the attack, scores goals, and you know, he has a similar skin colour.

Almost identical mate.

Not getting into the race discussion (although it was interesting to read).

Yaya Toure is a much classier player than Doucoure, much better passer of the ball and has much more finesse to his game. Doucoure (to me anyway) is much more about physicality, pressing and power.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ramjam on September 09, 2020, 05:26:48 PM
Not getting into the race discussion (although it was interesting to read).

Yaya Toure is a much classier player than Doucoure, much better passer of the ball and has much more finesse to his game. Doucoure (to me anyway) is much more about physicality, pressing and power.
Good that he has the physicality as we already have Tom Davies for the finesse


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 09, 2020, 05:27:12 PM
But let's not discount the fact that if I compare two players of a similar skin tone and the comparison is shit - it has every chance of being down to how much I know about football.

The part I agree with @Confucius (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=196) 100% is that we should be having open discussions about this. BLM needs to last more than a few weeks. It should be part of our conversation.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 09, 2020, 06:06:56 PM
I understand why BLM has come up here, and whilst it's good to be open, you will always have comparisons of a player based on the way they look (rightly or wrongly), and that's just someone's opinion. It's the same as someone of colour saying that Baines looks and acts like Chilwell. He just does and that's not racism.

It's also indicative of the amount of diversity we have in the Premier League from all different cultures which means that a lot of CMs are black. Doucoure is lanky, a hard runner, and by the looks of it, an excellent footballer. Toure comparisons should be welcomed, and I am sure Doucoure himself wouldn't mind them!

In my view, if we try and be too PC, it will actually be a much less of an open society to discuss these issues, and people will automatically have to censure their views to fall in line with society. I don't think we should be "cancelling" people's views, but should be educating where necessary.

Quite a delicate topic, but just thought i would share my views on it and appreciate you all may have different opinions.

To sum up, education is the key, not censorship.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 09, 2020, 06:08:51 PM
I understand why BLM has come up here, and whilst it's good to be open, you will always have comparisons of a player based on the way they look (rightly or wrongly), and that's just someone's opinion. It's the same as someone of colour saying that Baines looks and acts like Chilwell. He just does and that's not racism.

It's also indicative of the amount of diversity we have in the Premier League from all different cultures which means that a lot of CMs are black. Doucoure is lanky, a hard runner, and by the looks of it, an excellent footballer. Toure comparisons should be welcomed, and I am sure Doucoure himself wouldn't mind them!

In my view, if we try and be too PC, it will actually be a much less of an open society to discuss these issues, and people will automatically have to censure their views to fall in line with society. I don't think we should be "cancelling" people's views, but should be educating where necessary.

Quite a delicate topic, but just thought i would share my views on it and appreciate you all may have different opinions.

To sum up, education is the key, not censorship.

What he said
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 09, 2020, 06:09:26 PM
I understand why BLM has come up here, and whilst it's good to be open, you will always have comparisons of a player based on the way they look (rightly or wrongly), and that's just someone's opinion. It's the same as someone of colour saying that Baines looks and acts like Chilwell.



Your wrong there
Chilwel looks and acts like Baines
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ramjam on September 09, 2020, 06:10:55 PM
I understand why BLM has come up here, and whilst it's good to be open, you will always have comparisons of a player based on the way they look (rightly or wrongly), and that's just someone's opinion. It's the same as someone of colour saying that Baines looks and acts like Chilwell. He just does and that's not racism.

It's also indicative of the amount of diversity we have in the Premier League from all different cultures which means that a lot of CMs are black. Doucoure is lanky, a hard runner, and by the looks of it, an excellent footballer. Toure comparisons should be welcomed, and I am sure Doucoure himself wouldn't mind them!

In my view, if we try and be too PC, it will actually be a much less of an open society to discuss these issues, and people will automatically have to censure their views to fall in line with society. I don't think we should be "cancelling" people's views, but should be educating where necessary.

Quite a delicate topic, but just thought i would share my views on it and appreciate you all may have different opinions.

To sum up, education is the key, not censorship.
Excellent post


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 09, 2020, 06:11:07 PM
Ironic that it took a point made flippantly by a black Irish man to instigate a chat about BLM and Xenophobia on a football forum populated I would assume by mainly white English men 😊
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 09, 2020, 06:58:13 PM
Race issue aside I don’t see the Toure thing at all, Toure was much more about technique and generally classier on the pitch.

That video looks like Doucouré is all about power, a lot of those finishes were just him putting his foot through it and hoping for the best.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 09, 2020, 07:08:22 PM
Been said a few times, he reminds me of Barkley first season Martinez
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on September 09, 2020, 07:32:36 PM
He’s a poor mans veira/Gerrard
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jamokachi on September 09, 2020, 07:48:26 PM
He reminds me of Count Doocu from Star Wars... but actually Grievous because I'm a shit fan and always mistake the two.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: cantoffee on September 09, 2020, 07:48:28 PM
Toure comparison is weak at best and I can see why it would come across as a lazy comparison made because they are both tall and black.

Conscious is right to call it out. They are completely different players. Other than being tall and black I don't see the similarities.

The Barkley comparison is more apt, although Doucoure seems to press a bit more than him and be a bit more direct even.

I understand that the typical retort to this is what about a player from X location being called or compared to X player. But those often have players with some sort of similarities, these two do not.

This happens frequently with tall black midfielders being compared to other tall black midfielders with darker skin tones regardless of playing style, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

Confucious also isn't blaming or accusing anyone of mal intent and I do think it is something we need to be conscious of.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 09, 2020, 07:54:00 PM
Ironic that it took a point made flippantly by a black Irish man to instigate a chat about BLM and Xenophobia on a football forum populated I would assume by mainly white English men 😊

You should visit the other non football parts of the forum. We're constantly talking about politics, race etc.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 09, 2020, 07:59:38 PM
Toure comparison is weak at best and I can see why it would come across as a lazy comparison made because they are both tall and black.

Conscious is right to call it out. They are completely different players. Other than being tall and black I don't see the similarities.

The Barkley comparison is more apt, although Doucoure seems to press a bit more than him and be a bit more direct even.

I understand that the typical retort to this is what about a player from X location being called or compared to X player. But those often have players with some sort of similarities, these two do not.

This happens frequently with tall black midfielders being compared to other tall black midfielders with darker skin tones regardless of playing style, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

Confucious also isn't blaming or accusing anyone of mal intent and I do think it is something we need to be conscious of.

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As an aside, Doucoure is only 6 foot even
he is not tall
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: cantoffee on September 09, 2020, 08:01:56 PM
I understand why BLM has come up here, and whilst it's good to be open, you will always have comparisons of a player based on the way they look (rightly or wrongly), and that's just someone's opinion. It's the same as someone of colour saying that Baines looks and acts like Chilwell. He just does and that's not racism.

It's also indicative of the amount of diversity we have in the Premier League from all different cultures which means that a lot of CMs are black. Doucoure is lanky, a hard runner, and by the looks of it, an excellent footballer. Toure comparisons should be welcomed, and I am sure Doucoure himself wouldn't mind them!

In my view, if we try and be too PC, it will actually be a much less of an open society to discuss these issues, and people will automatically have to censure their views to fall in line with society. I don't think we should be "cancelling" people's views, but should be educating where necessary.

Quite a delicate topic, but just thought i would share my views on it and appreciate you all may have different opinions.

To sum up, education is the key, not censorship.
I would argue that Confucious was educating and wasn't censoring. Ill also add that this thread is actually great in terms of people sharing diverse views and hearing from others. No censorship as far as I can see and lots of great, well thought out and ultimately, well intentioned people discussing something important.

I would also add why not compare him to another hard running, lanky player? Because Toure wasn't exactly a hard runner.

Honestly closer comparison in style would be Goretzka at Bayern. Good in the air, strong runner and pressing, likes to get in the box.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: cantoffee on September 09, 2020, 08:02:26 PM
As an aside, Doucoure is only 6 foot even
he is not tall
I know but people seem to think he is tall.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 09, 2020, 08:08:08 PM
He’s a poor mans veira/Gerrard

Here's a good thread on finding the next Viera using data

https://twitter.com/Tw3rcazette/status/1294696991780478978?s=19

Doucoure doesn't really show up because not in the same solar system.

Unrelated but attached is his profile from the company elpivote works for, he tweeted it today. It's got erm, room for improvement.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Free Agent on September 09, 2020, 08:10:16 PM

I would also add why not compare him to another hard running, lanky player? Because Toure wasn't exactly a hard runner.

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Carlton Palmer then?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 09, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Fucking hell lads
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 09, 2020, 08:21:05 PM
Carlton Palmer then?

Fucking hate Carlton Palmer for no other reason than him scoring that shit header against us from about 90 yards
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 09, 2020, 08:28:13 PM
Here's a good thread on finding the next Viera using data

https://twitter.com/Tw3rcazette/status/1294696991780478978?s=19

Doucoure doesn't really show up because not in the same solar system.

Unrelated but attached is his profile from the company elpivote works for, he tweeted it today. It's got erm, room for improvement.

So, he’s good in the air, and at interceptions, but he doesn’t dribble, or get involved in the build up.

The last part of that sentence sounds like Sigurdsson.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 09, 2020, 08:37:57 PM
I would argue that Confucious was educating and wasn't censoring. Ill also add that this thread is actually great in terms of people sharing diverse views and hearing from others. No censorship as far as I can see and lots of great, well thought out and ultimately, well intentioned people discussing something important.

I would also add why not compare him to another hard running, lanky player? Because Toure wasn't exactly a hard runner.

Honestly closer comparison in style would be Goretzka at Bayern. Good in the air, strong runner and pressing, likes to get in the box.

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My post wasn't a dig at anyone at all, and in fact I like that NSNO has some really good people on here willing to stand up for what is right and correct.

I think a lot of it though has to come down to football knowledge and it could just be that it was a bad example rather than anything insidious. However, it is someone's opinion, and we have to respect that rather than call it out as something it probably isn't.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 09, 2020, 08:38:57 PM
I hate having to go here, but....My dad is black, my mam is white, I am essentially half black
I am not trying to embarrass anyone by addressing this, but simply pointing out that calling someone out as being racist for comparing 2 footballers of similar styles due to their both being black....

I am also Irish born, if we signed a hard as nails ball winner from Dublin tomorrow and people wondered could he be our Roy Keane, would that be xenophobic by this rationale?
Its absolute nonsense

I am sure you meant well, but it's really unhelpful to call out racism where there is absolutely none, as it dilutes the calling of same when there IS something to be said due to people automatically thinking "here we go again"


In no way do I know what people think and to be honest it’s not about what race you are. It’s the way we think. We all do it. We are pre-conditioned to think in a certain way. Compare a black person to a black person.we struggle to make the connection the other way. It’s tough to do. We have to really think about it.

But I think we should really strive to do it no matter the intention of the original post.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 09, 2020, 08:52:15 PM
So, he’s good in the air, and at interceptions, but he doesn’t dribble, or get involved in the build up.

The last part of that sentence sounds like Sigurdsson.

To be absolutely fair, that was last year, when he was shite and played as a 10.

Here he'll be box to box, and despite his generally kinda average metrics I do think he is going to be quite good for us.

We're not a very good side, you don't have to be a whiz kid to improve us and I think he will.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 09, 2020, 09:03:26 PM
Ironic that it took a point made flippantly by a black Irish man to instigate a chat about BLM and Xenophobia on a football forum populated I would assume by mainly white English men 😊

@Toddacelli (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2432) thinks I'm black tho.

 ;)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 09, 2020, 10:09:37 PM
In all honesty, the one player I really thought he reminded me of was James McCarthy in his prime for us, but with better shooting - he was wearing the number 16 and just the way that he made those really purposeful runs into the box. Some of those shots in that video were top draw. I think he could be that kind of box to box player and all-rounder that we have been missing for a long time.

On James McCarthy, there aren't many players in the last 10 years that have had so much potential and seen it disappear through injury. A real shame.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bluegriffo on September 09, 2020, 10:47:07 PM
Going to take a long long time but comments like this is why BLM needs to be around. You not going to see it and I know I will be called all sorts of things and PC gone mad but people need to change the way they think. Need to think before posting or speaking.

Things just have to change.
I’m of mixed race, now if he referred to him as a big hard driving midfielder (which I think he did) then there’s nothing wrong with what he said and I don’t find it offensive blm as well is important but comments like this don’t help unless you no how it was meant just gets people’s back up

Love to all
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 09, 2020, 11:00:38 PM
I’m of mixed race, now if he referred to him as a big hard driving midfielder (which I think he did) then there’s nothing wrong with what he said and I don’t find it offensive blm as well is important but comments like this don’t help unless you no how it was meant just gets people’s back up

Love to all

I think it’s so ingrained that it’s become normal. And it isn’t. As mentioned, it doesn’t matter our race. It matters the way we think.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 10, 2020, 12:02:17 AM
I think it’s so ingrained that it’s become normal. And it isn’t. As mentioned, it doesn’t matter our race. It matters the way we think.

I agree. Events this year have certainly made me think more - not just before I speak - but also about the origins of what I want to say.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: 74Blue on September 10, 2020, 12:59:36 AM
I hate having to go here, but....My dad is black, my mam is white, I am essentially half black
I am not trying to embarrass anyone by addressing this, but simply pointing out that calling someone out as being racist for comparing 2 footballers of similar styles due to their both being black....

I am also Irish born, if we signed a hard as nails ball winner from Dublin tomorrow and people wondered could he be our Roy Keane, would that be xenophobic by this rationale?
Its absolute nonsense

I am sure you meant well, but it's really unhelpful to call out racism where there is absolutely none, as it dilutes the calling of same when there IS something to be said due to people automatically thinking "here we go again"

Absolutely spot on. If Doucoure is anywhere close to Yaya Toure in ability we have an absolute beast on our hands. Nothing to do with the colour of his skin. Yaya Toure was a great player in his prime, but you're not allowed to compare him because it might be perceived as racist? How fucked up have we become, when admiring a player's ability and comparing him to a former great is considered racist?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 10, 2020, 01:18:16 AM
Absolutely spot on. If Doucoure is anywhere close to Yaya Toure in ability we have an absolute beast on our hands. Nothing to do with the colour of his skin. Yaya Toure was a great player in his prime, but you're not allowed to compare him because it might be perceived as racist? How fucked up have we become, when admiring a player's ability and comparing him to a former great is considered racist?

When they share almost no similarity except the colour of their skin?

I ask you?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 10, 2020, 01:29:44 AM
Absolutely spot on. If Doucoure is anywhere close to Yaya Toure in ability we have an absolute beast on our hands. Nothing to do with the colour of his skin. Yaya Toure was a great player in his prime, but you're not allowed to compare him because it might be perceived as racist? How fucked up have we become, when admiring a player's ability and comparing him to a former great is considered racist?

You’re missing the big point that they aren’t at all alike.

Drogba was a great black player, but if you compared Doucouré to him it would be a bit weird, not a compliment.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Goaljira on September 10, 2020, 01:32:45 AM
I think of Yaya Toure, I think of the engine room of that City side.  He could get the ball and carry it forward, get a good shot off, and popped up in the box handily for a fair few goals.  I appreciate that its a condensed highlights reel, buts thats what I took from Doucoure being like from that video above.  I did think about saying he could be our Gerrard as someone else has said, but I didnt want him tarnished with attacking DJs or running over kids.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 10, 2020, 01:32:46 AM
You're missing the big point that they aren't at all alike.

Drogba was a great black player, but if you compared Doucouré to him it would be a bit weird, not a compliment.
They're both centre midfielders ffs, people might say they have different attributes and one is significantly better than the other, that's fine, but they play in pretty much the same position

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2020, 01:34:46 AM
Not to add to the issues, but describing black players as 'beasts' isn't always the greatest thing.

I'm not saying for a moment it's intentional racism (I've used the word myself in the past, without thinking about it). But it's an example of the way certain things are communicated through language which might appear benign but reinforce certain perspectives and stereotypes.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: 74Blue on September 10, 2020, 01:34:51 AM
When they share almost no similarity except the colour of their skin?

I ask you?
Strong, Athletic midfielder who likes to get forward and has PL experience. Absolutely nothing like him is he?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: 74Blue on September 10, 2020, 01:35:54 AM
You’re missing the big point that they aren’t at all alike.

Drogba was a great black player, but if you compared Doucouré to him it would be a bit weird, not a compliment.
Drogba was a centre forward. Doucoure is a midfielder, so yes that would be fucking weird.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 10, 2020, 01:53:30 AM
Not to add to the issues, but describing black players as 'beasts' isn't always the greatest thing.

I'm not saying for a moment it's intentional racism (I've used the word myself in the past, without thinking about it). But it's an example of the way certain things are communicated through language which might appear benign but reinforce certain perspectives and stereotypes.

I describe any race as a beast if they are, in fact, beasting it.

edit: though I recognize that may be an American vs English thing. You guys say bossing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2020, 01:55:11 AM
I describe any race as a beast if they are, in fact, beasting it.

That may be the case, but perhaps it would do some good to read up a little as to why referring to black players as beasts is very common, and really not a good thing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 10, 2020, 01:56:47 AM
That may be the case, but perhaps it would do some good to read up a little as to why referring to black players as beasts is very common, and really not a good thing.

read my edit.

example: in the NFL, Marshawn Lynch came up with his own "Beast Mode" nickname. Widely adopted on ESPN like.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on September 10, 2020, 01:57:12 AM
I think of Yaya Toure, I think of the engine room of that City side.  He could get the ball and carry it forward, get a good shot off, and popped up in the box handily for a fair few goals.  I appreciate that its a condensed highlights reel, buts thats what I took from Doucoure being like from that video above.  I did think about saying he could be our Gerrard as someone else has said, but I didnt want him tarnished with attacking DJs or running over kids.

Or slipping and costing us the title.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2020, 01:58:07 AM
read my edit.

example: in the NFL, Marshawn Lynch came up with his own "Beast Mode" nickname. Widely adopted on ESPN like.

No, 'beast' is very common in the UK too, along with 'beast mode' and other variations.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 10, 2020, 02:02:38 AM
Strong, Athletic midfielder who likes to get forward and has PL experience. Absolutely nothing like him is he?

YaYa was not the most athletic. His passing skills were superior, his goal ratio better, did not press, was not a ball winner or tackler. They nothing alike.

But i bet you would struggle to come up with one non-black name to compare with Doucoure. Try it. It’s hard. And that’s the point, we conditioned to compare black to black, white to white. I don’t care if I offend or not. Those days of being shouted down are done.

Just think. If you feel your comparison is justified after giving it some thought to for it. Otherwise think of something else.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 10, 2020, 02:18:03 AM
I think it's so ingrained that it's become normal. And it isn't. As mentioned, it doesn't matter our race. It matters the way we think.
That’s not necessary inherent racism though, stereotyping is one of the fundamental ways our brain processes and collates information - it’s a subconscious short-cut we don’t have much control over. It’s not quite psychologically, 101, but it’s up there.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 10, 2020, 02:24:44 AM
That’s not necessary inherent racism though, stereotyping is one of the fundamental ways our brain processes and collates information - it’s a subconscious short-cut we don’t have much control over. It’s not quite psychologically, 101, but it’s up there.


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Going to respectfully disagree that we inherently do it. Kids don’t. Little kids don’t see race or colour. We teach them. We teach them that a Muslim man is a terrorist. That a big black guy is a criminal. That a Chinese person drives bad, that a blonde woman isn’t as smart as one with black hair.

There seterotype are taught. We need to teach things differently. It’s not easy.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2020, 02:37:42 AM
read my edit.

example: in the NFL, Marshawn Lynch came up with his own "Beast Mode" nickname. Widely adopted on ESPN like.

the NFL has a serious issue with how black players are talked about. Key and Peele did a sketch on it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 10, 2020, 02:39:00 AM
the NFL has a serious issue with how black players are talked about. Key and Peele did a sketch on it.

No doubt, but the NFL didn't come up with his name; he did.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2020, 02:41:28 AM
No doubt, but the NFL didn't come up with his name; he did.

Please listen more.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 10, 2020, 02:44:07 AM
Please listen more.

What'd I miss? I'm open to hearing to what I've misunderstood.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on September 10, 2020, 02:47:13 AM
I really don’t think people compare him to toure out of racism. Tall athletic black midfielder and people having not seen much of him are just being highly optimistic by picking the best 1 of that type. Is it really a problem comparing players to someone who looks similar and plays in the same position. Surely all the crazy “new Michael owens” who only qualified on being white little and fast weren’t racism. It’s just an easy if often daft comparison. If it’s not remotely offensive though then I struggle to see how it’s racism. Being the new toure is surely a compliment even if he’s not and it’s plain daft 
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2020, 03:16:18 AM
I really don’t think people compare him to toure out of racism. Tall athletic black midfielder and people having not seen much of him are just being highly optimistic by picking the best 1 of that type. Is it really a problem comparing players to someone who looks similar and plays in the same position. Surely all the crazy “new Michael owens” who only qualified on being white little and fast weren’t racism. It’s just an easy if often daft comparison. If it’s not remotely offensive though then I struggle to see how it’s racism. Being the new toure is surely a compliment even if he’s not and it’s plain daft 

You familiar with the concepts of subtle, inherent racism and unconscious bias? The way racism is coded into our language and our thought patterns unknowingly (as well as other forms of prejudice)?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on September 10, 2020, 03:25:20 AM
Ah lads back to the football maybe
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2020, 03:35:11 AM
What'd I miss? I'm open to hearing to what I've misunderstood.

Just that not all conversations are opportunities for Gotcha! moments.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 10, 2020, 03:44:19 AM
Just that not all conversations are opportunities for Gotcha! moments.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 10, 2020, 03:45:46 AM
Ah lads back to the football maybe

When we done. This is important
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2020, 04:06:16 AM
According to Doucoure, Richarlison tapped him up for the club about a month ago. Nice work from the lad.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Goaljira on September 10, 2020, 04:13:39 AM
According to Doucoure, Richarlison tapped him up for the club about a month ago. Nice work from the lad.

Ssshhhh!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2020, 04:14:42 AM
Ssshhhh!

A bit late. It's on the Official Site in quotation marks.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 10, 2020, 04:29:44 AM
I'd compare him to Jordan Henderson, no world beater but full of energy and drive. Which is essential in the EPL.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: howard1334 on September 10, 2020, 04:43:49 AM
Going to respectfully disagree that we inherently do it. Kids don’t. Little kids don’t see race or colour. We teach them. We teach them that a Muslim man is a terrorist. That a big black guy is a criminal. That a Chinese person drives bad, that a blonde woman isn’t as smart as one with black hair.

There seterotype are taught. We need to teach things differently. It’s not easy.

It is likely both, as it generally is.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 10, 2020, 05:02:47 AM
Going to respectfully disagree that we inherently do it. Kids don’t. Little kids don’t see race or colour. We teach them. We teach them that a Muslim man is a terrorist. That a big black guy is a criminal. That a Chinese person drives bad, that a blonde woman isn’t as smart as one with black hair.

There seterotype are taught. We need to teach things differently. It’s not easy.

We unfortunately do all have subconscious biases whether we like it or not. What he is saying is that the human brain automatically groups relevant information together which makes it easier for our memory recall.

For every negative stereotype, there are also Positive stereotypes, which we shouldn’t forget. The Germans are efficient, Polish are hard working, Ethiopians are amazing long distance runners, Jamaicans are fast. These are blanket statements and not applicable to everyone from these countries, but it’s the way that our brains deal with information, rightly or wrongly.

These stereotypes can also be used in a very negative way by the human brain as well, And those very bad stereotypes are the ones we have to change. People of any colour being stopped and searched more than white people just shouldn’t happen. Black people being followed in shops just because they are black  shouldn’t happen. Given time and continuous education and exposure, these things will change, as long as society wills it to.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 10, 2020, 05:07:39 AM
I'd compare him to Jordan Henderson, no world beater but full of energy and drive. Which is essential in the EPL.

Hopefully minus the dirty prick part.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 10, 2020, 05:07:58 AM
According to Doucoure, Richarlison tapped him up for the club about a month ago. Nice work from the lad.

I noticed the Digne was calling it a bit of a reunion also. They played youth footy together.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ramjam on September 10, 2020, 12:59:37 PM
I really don't think people compare him to toure out of racism. Tall athletic black midfielder and people having not seen much of him are just being highly optimistic by picking the best 1 of that type. Is it really a problem comparing players to someone who looks similar and plays in the same position. Surely all the crazy "new Michael owens” who only qualified on being white little and fast weren't racism. It's just an easy if often daft comparison. If it's not remotely offensive though then I struggle to see how it's racism. Being the new toure is surely a compliment even if he's not and it's plain daft
You mean like the similarities when people compare Stuart Barlow with Michael Owen


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Silas on September 10, 2020, 02:32:28 PM
He reminds me of Li Tie because why the hell not?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 10, 2020, 02:56:41 PM
I have had enough
This is incredible
I made a flippant remark about Doucoure being similar in style to Yaya, and here we are, 10 pages later with lads saying I am basically, subconsciously racist.
This despite the fact that as i have said, i myself am of mixed race and Irish to boot. A black Irishman, possibly the worst thing you can be to so many people who frequent football grounds on a Saturday

But you know what, if it makes some of you feel better about yourselves to feel you are fighting your own little BLM movement here instead of in reality, and you want to use an ACTUAL mixed race person as your football, then feck it, go for it.

I AM OUT.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on September 10, 2020, 03:12:43 PM
I have had enough
This is incredible
I made a flippant remark about Doucoure being similar in style to Yaya, and here we are, 10 pages later with lads saying I am basically, subconsciously racist.
This despite the fact that as i have said, i myself am of mixed race and Irish to boot. A black Irishman, possibly the worst thing you can be to so many people who frequent football grounds on a Saturday

But you know what, if it makes some of you feel better about yourselves to feel you are fighting your own little BLM movement here instead of in reality, and you want to use an ACTUAL mixed race person as your football, then feck it, go for it.

I AM OUT.


The debate isn’t about you. It’s about society as a whole and how subconscious racism still creeps in on a regular basis.

You should probably take on board what’s being said and maybe think about how black players are always compared with other black players.

Nobody said you yourself was racist. Subconscious racism is something everyone is guilty of which is why it’s good to acknowledge it at any opportunity.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 10, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
The debate isn’t about you. It’s about society as a whole and how subconscious racism still creeps in on a regular basis.

You should probably take on board what’s being said and maybe think about how black players are always compared with other black players.

Nobody said you yourself was racist. Subconscious racism is something everyone is guilty of which is why it’s good to acknowledge it at any opportunity.

Sorry, is a white person telling me how to interpret racism?
Am I reading that right?!?!?!!!!!!!!

Gaslight much?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tofifee on September 10, 2020, 03:26:13 PM
Look, as I said, I am leaving NSNO now, this has gone to places it should never have went by SOME lads trying to make something out of nothing to prove something to themselves about themselves.
Ram, I meant no personal offence to you, keep fighting the good fight.
I am bailing now tho, these things boil my piss and I don;t want to start falling out with blues. NSNO is losing its hazlenut as of now lol
Good luck all
COYB
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2020, 03:26:22 PM
Sorry, is a white person telling me how to interpret racism?
Am I reading that right?!?!?!!!!!!!!

Gaslight much?


No, he's trying to help you not feel targeted by a conversation you seem to have misinterpreted.

P.s. for the record, I don't think he plays much like Yaya but I can see why someone would. Imposing frame and powering up through midfield.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on September 10, 2020, 03:36:38 PM
Sorry, is a white person telling me how to interpret racism?
Am I reading that right?!?!?!!!!!!!!

Gaslight much?


Nope, I’m saying everyone is guilty of it, including myself, including people of every race.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 10, 2020, 03:37:49 PM
Sorry you feel that way Tofifee. But running away doesn’t help as your voice is important in this. Really important.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on September 10, 2020, 04:12:07 PM
If someone says to me, “Doucoure plays like a cheaper YaYa” I immediately and only think, “he plays like a marauding midfielder, picking up the ball in mid and driving with it towards goal”. Nothing else. Just like if you said James was like Iniesta - I wouldnt equate “oh hes a small white man”, Id think hes a creative, forward thinking attacking mid, whos excellent on the ball”.

Similiarly, if anyone said to me “That player is a beast”. Id never ever think about animals or colours, Id think hes a strong agressive player. Lukaku is a beast, Diego Costa is a beast, Dixie Dean was, etc. I think this goes for the vast majority of people around here, including this forum generally.

Although we should ALWAYS be very careful with our wording and should never put up with any form of racism, serious bullying, or just general cuntyness. We should also be equally careful with jumping on everything and down everyones throat - especially where there really was no malice whatsoever, perceived or otherwise. Exactly illustrated in the previous 10+ pages.

Suggest we all think carefully of BOTH our written words and also our reaction to perceived interpretation of them (both sides) and just carry on as normal, i.e. perfectly fiine here 99% of the time.

PS. Tory scum, snoots and Red Shites excluded. :)

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
Hi here's an article about Doucoure

https://theconventionalplaymaker.wordpress.com/2020/09/08/abdoulaye-doucoure-analysis-of-the-midfielder-moving-to-everton/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Lazarou on September 10, 2020, 04:37:29 PM
Hi here's an article about Doucoure

https://theconventionalplaymaker.wordpress.com/2020/09/08/abdoulaye-doucoure-analysis-of-the-midfielder-moving-to-everton/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Some great numbers by Delph, Davies and Gomes there  lolol
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 10, 2020, 05:05:57 PM

Although we should ALWAYS be very careful with our wording and should never put up with any form of racism, serious bullying, or just general cuntyness. We should also be equally careful with jumping on everything and down everyones throat - especially where there really was no malice whatsoever, perceived or otherwise. Exactly illustrated in the previous 10+ pages.


Calling somebody out for perceived racial bias in their language isn’t ‘jumping on’ people, it’s a way to start a conversation that we need to have. We all have our own racial bias and one of the first steps to combatting them is admitting to them, not getting overly defensive all the time.

‘Good’ people can still be racist in the way they express themselves, it’s not just guys in white hoods burning crosses that are racist. I read a book called Anti-Racist Baby to my little lad and I remember being uncomfortable that one of the 10 suggested steps was to confess to racism as it feels like a criticism, but as the book says:

Nothing disrupts racism more than when we confess, to the racist ideas we sometimes express.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on September 10, 2020, 05:21:12 PM
Some great numbers by Delph, Davies and Gomes there  lolol

How come Sigurdsson looks so good ?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Lazarou on September 10, 2020, 05:48:51 PM
How come Sigurdsson looks so good ?

The numbers never lie  :whistle:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2020, 05:51:02 PM
How come Sigurdsson looks so good ?

Usually with him it's set pieces!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: AllyBlue14 on September 10, 2020, 06:11:00 PM
Calling somebody out for perceived racial bias in their language isn’t ‘jumping on’ people, it’s a way to start a conversation that we need to have. We all have our own racial bias and one of the first steps to combatting them is admitting to them, not getting overly defensive all the time.

‘Good’ people can still be racist in the way they express themselves, it’s not just guys in white hoods burning crosses that are racist. I read a book called Anti-Racist Baby to my little lad and I remember being uncomfortable that one of the 10 suggested steps was to confess to racism as it feels like a criticism, but as the book says:

Nothing disrupts racism more than when we confess, to the racist ideas we sometimes express.

So that suggests everybody is racist and, to me, dilutes what actual racism means. Racism is a prejudice. Noticing a person's race isn't racist; disliking them because of it is.

Race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexuality, age etc. all make up who we are. It's OK - if not, inevitable - to 'see' those things and to a certain extent they condition how we interact with that person (you're less likely to drop the C-bomb with your Nan, for example). It's when you treat people disrespectfully due to their age/race etc. that the line is crossed.

These characteristics are often a large part of our identity and should be celebrated, not hidden away or overlooked, otherwise we risk just becoming amorphous blobs.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 10, 2020, 06:23:10 PM
Look, as I said, I am leaving NSNO now, this has gone to places it should never have went by SOME lads trying to make something out of nothing to prove something to themselves about themselves.
Ram, I meant no personal offence to you, keep fighting the good fight.
I am bailing now tho, these things boil my piss and I don;t want to start falling out with blues. NSNO is losing its hazlenut as of now lol
Good luck all
COYB

To be honest, you're making a tit of yourself and you're the only one weaponizing race on here.

The lads were having a very nuanced discussion about how race is communicated through language and how we all have biases that we're unaware of, or prone to. Absolutely nothing wrong with that discussion. I would be amazed if you saw too many more balanced, calm, sympathetic discussions about race on any football forum in the country.

Get over your little hissy fit, stop stating 'I'm a black Irishman' before every comment you make, as if that somehow invalidates everything that everyone else other than you is saying, and get back involved in the conversation.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 10, 2020, 06:39:38 PM
The fact is that these are uncomfortable conversations that everyone needs to have, and they will come up from time to time. No one instigated it, it just happened naturally and from my perspective has been really informative and well balanced. I respect everyone’s views, no matter how different from mine, and to me it’s done and dusted now and we can actually discuss how Doucoure will completely take over the world in our new midfield! 😃
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on September 10, 2020, 07:15:38 PM
Like a white Yaya Toure after Sky have edited pics of him 😜
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mayor Farnum on September 10, 2020, 07:31:44 PM
What's a snoot?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 10, 2020, 08:17:54 PM
I have had enough
This is incredible
I made a flippant remark about Doucoure being similar in style to Yaya, and here we are, 10 pages later with lads saying I am basically, subconsciously racist.
This despite the fact that as i have said, i myself am of mixed race and Irish to boot. A black Irishman, possibly the worst thing you can be to so many people who frequent football grounds on a Saturday

But you know what, if it makes some of you feel better about yourselves to feel you are fighting your own little BLM movement here instead of in reality, and you want to use an ACTUAL mixed race person as your football, then feck it, go for it.

I AM OUT.


I'm just trying to understand the world in a better way, bro. I didn't mean to upset anyone. I hope you decide to stay and maybe even be a part of the conversation. We're all Blue on here.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on September 10, 2020, 08:22:03 PM
Some great numbers by Delph, Davies and Gomes there  lolol

Was listening to a podcast last night that had Doucoure as one of the worst signings of the season. Too much money for a player who doesn’t do anything particularly well and wasn’t needed because we had Gomes, Davies and Delph.

Suffice to say I turned it off at that point.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on September 10, 2020, 08:23:51 PM
Can’t stop visualising Tofifee as Phil Lynott from Thin Lizzy.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 10, 2020, 08:28:29 PM
Was listening to a podcast last night that had Doucoure as one of the worst signings of the season. Too much money for a player who doesn’t do anything particularly well and wasn’t needed because we had Gomes, Davies and Delph.

Suffice to say I turned it off at that point.

It's amazing how many pundits talk about Everton that spew absolute tripe, have probably only watched MOTD highlights, and know nothing about any of our players or situation. If you thought at the end of last season that Everton didn't need any midfielders, then you are not qualified to give any sort of football opinion, especially publically!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 10, 2020, 08:53:25 PM
Look, as I said, I am leaving NSNO now, this has gone to places it should never have went by SOME lads trying to make something out of nothing to prove something to themselves about themselves.
Ram, I meant no personal offence to you, keep fighting the good fight.
I am bailing now tho, these things boil my piss and I don;t want to start falling out with blues. NSNO is losing its hazlenut as of now lol
Good luck all
COYB

Bro don't leave. It's a good bunch.

Besides, who's gonna be the biggest flapper if you do?!

😉
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 10, 2020, 08:58:35 PM
Hi here's an article about Doucoure

https://theconventionalplaymaker.wordpress.com/2020/09/08/abdoulaye-doucoure-analysis-of-the-midfielder-moving-to-everton/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

This was a great read, thanks.

Really loved the insights around his pressing ability. Didn't know that was a strength of his.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 10, 2020, 09:00:27 PM
Like a white Yaya Toure after Sky have edited pics of him 😜

Big fan of self-deprecating humor myself.

Nicely done.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 10, 2020, 09:01:46 PM
I'm just trying to understand the world in a better way, bro. I didn't mean to upset anyone. I hope you decide to stay and maybe even be a part of the conversation. We're all Blue on here.

BLUE LIVES MATTER AMIRITE.

(this is a very U.S.-centric piece of snark before anyone thinks I'm making light of BLM, which I'm not)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 10, 2020, 09:06:29 PM
Was listening to a podcast last night that had Doucoure as one of the worst signings of the season. Too much money for a player who doesn’t do anything particularly well and wasn’t needed because we had Gomes, Davies and Delph.

Suffice to say I turned it off at that point.

Which podcast? Just so I can avoid.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on September 10, 2020, 09:15:01 PM
Which podcast? Just so I can avoid.

Whatever this is

(https://i.imgur.com/Zsg7jX0.jpg)

I didn’t spot the football daily logo before now, makes sense.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on September 10, 2020, 10:12:25 PM
To be honest, you're making a tit of yourself and you're the only one weaponizing race on here.

The lads were having a very nuanced discussion about how race is communicated through language and how we all have biases that we're unaware of, or prone to. Absolutely nothing wrong with that discussion. I would be amazed if you saw too many more balanced, calm, sympathetic discussions about race on any football forum in the country.

Get over your little hissy fit, stop stating 'I'm a black Irishman' before every comment you make, as if that somehow invalidates everything that everyone else other than you is saying, and get back involved in the conversation.

Bit odd when he called himself “half black”

I’ve never heard anyone call themselves that.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 11, 2020, 03:21:00 AM
This is more indicative of the problem

https://twitter.com/SkySportsLyall/status/1304103824672645122

The only similarities these players have is that they are both small and black.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 11, 2020, 03:30:17 AM

This is more indicative of the problem

https://twitter.com/SkySportsLyall/status/1304103824672645122

The only similarities these players have is that they are both small and black.

I'm lost, where has he said they're similar?

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 11, 2020, 03:38:13 AM
Some key supporting evidence re: the racial bias discussion -

https://theswaddle.com/study-says-football-commentators-praise-black-players-for-power-white-players-for-work-ethic-leadership/

Quote
the study analyzed the 2019/20 English football season, looking at 80 football matches in which commentators talked about 643 players. When talking about intelligence during a game, the study found 62% of the praise was aimed at a player with a lighter skin tone, and 63% of the criticism was aimed at a player with a darker skin tone. Similar phenomena were observed when talking about leadership and work ethic, in which players with lighter skin tones were praised more frequently than darker-skinned players, and the latter criticized more frequently than the former.

Quote
Words like “beast” are also often thrown around to praise Black and Brown players, which again indicates an animalistic strength that POC are so often stereotyped to harbor, one that is often understood to be devoid of intelligence, creativity or individuality, and solely steeped in bruteness.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 11, 2020, 03:42:33 AM
I'm lost, where has he said they're similar?

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If you wanted an alternative to apples, would you buy a plant pot?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 11, 2020, 03:45:51 AM
If you wanted an alternative to apples, would you buy a plant pot?
No, but if I wanted an alternative midfielder I might pick and alternative midfielder....

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 11, 2020, 04:08:32 AM
If you wanted an alternative to apples, would you buy a plant pot?

Not being snarky, because I don't know, but how different of a player is Seri? I'm assuming not as simple as just saying they both play center mid.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on September 11, 2020, 04:08:57 AM
Big fan of self-deprecating humor myself.
Me too, I always wish I could do more of it but im not very good at it
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 11, 2020, 04:09:24 AM
Me too, I always wish I could do more of it but im not very good at it

How's the saying go? If you can't laugh at yourself...
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 11, 2020, 04:17:28 AM
Not being snarky, because I don't know, but how different of a player is Seri? I'm assuming not as simple as just saying they both play center mid.
Has different attributes to Kante, some might say he's an alternative option to Kante with regards to how he could influence the game

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on September 11, 2020, 04:24:48 AM
How's the saying go? If you can't laugh at yourself...
... just laugh at Yankee.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 11, 2020, 04:25:00 AM
Has different attributes to Kante, some might say he's an alternative option to Kante with regards to how he could influence the game

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So sort of, but not like Kante vs Gana, say.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on September 11, 2020, 04:25:11 AM
I hope Doucoure isn't reading Everton forums to try and get an opinion on what they think of him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on September 11, 2020, 04:26:05 AM
So sort of, but not like Kante vs Gana, say.
I'd have never said they were remotely similar players
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 11, 2020, 04:26:10 AM
The last 10 pages remind me of the George/Sugar Ray Leonard Seinfeld episode.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 11, 2020, 04:27:04 AM
I'd have never said they were remotely similar players

No? I thought they were very similar in their approach to ball-winning, tackling, cleaning up messes, etc.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on September 11, 2020, 04:30:37 AM
I hope Doucoure isn't reading Everton forums to try and get an opinion on what they think of him.
You could say that about a number of players, especially Tom Davies
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 11, 2020, 04:33:22 AM
Not being snarky, because I don't know, but how different of a player is Seri? I'm assuming not as simple as just saying they both play center mid.

It would be like looking to buy Ngolo Kante but seeing your bank balance and opting for Juan Mata instead.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 11, 2020, 04:36:04 AM
It would be like looking to buy Ngolo Kante but seeing your bank balance and opting for Juan Mata instead.

So only kind of similar then.

Jeez just kidding.

Gracias.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 11, 2020, 11:17:11 AM
Me too, I always wish I could do more of it but im not very good at it

Well played, went way over Yankees head
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: BlueNoseMike on September 11, 2020, 01:41:26 PM
Some key supporting evidence re: the racial bias discussion -

https://theswaddle.com/study-says-football-commentators-praise-black-players-for-power-white-players-for-work-ethic-leadership/



This definitely rings true. You never hear players like Sterling get praised for their football brain, the focus is always on physical attributes.

Similar with lukaku etc.

And that's not even taking into account what gets said about their private lives compared to white players
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 11, 2020, 02:28:28 PM
This definitely rings true. You never hear players like Sterling get praised for their football brain, the focus is always on physical attributes.


Which is mad as Sterling has some of the best off the ball movement in the world
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 11, 2020, 02:38:33 PM
Which is mad as Sterling has some of the best off the ball movement in the world

Indeed. You don’t score a million tap-ins without being smarter than 99% of the defenders out there.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 11, 2020, 08:18:19 PM
Well played, went way over Yankees head

Me:

(https://media.giphy.com/media/9eLbjOcGOpmY8/giphy.gif)

@Old England Toffee (http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=6870) I hate you and wish I was much better at getting internet jokes.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on September 14, 2020, 12:58:08 AM
I voted for him as MoM.

Last year we NEVER seemed to win the second ball in the middle of the park. A header would come out from either defence and it would drop to an opposition player with no blue shirt in sight!

Today Doucoure was there for all of them. Picked up the second ball and moved it forwards. His off the ball positioning is something I've not seen as Goodison for a VERY long time.

This midfield could be special.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 14, 2020, 01:04:50 AM
I voted for him as MoM.

Last year we NEVER seemed to win the second ball in the middle of the park. A header would come out from either defence and it would drop to an opposition player with no blue shirt in sight!

Today Doucoure was there for all of them. Picked up the second ball and moved it forwards. His off the ball positioning is something I've not seen as Goodison for a VERY long time.

This midfield could be special.

Massive tackle when Lucas was on the break after the corner too, don’t make that and it’s a 1:1 with Pickford from 40 yards in and nobody catching him
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: velimski on September 14, 2020, 01:06:09 AM
Massive tackle when Lucas was on the break after the corner too, don’t make that and it’s a 1:1 with Pickford from 40 yards in and nobody catching him

Must have aroused him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Goaljira on September 14, 2020, 01:13:21 AM
Massive tackle when Lucas was on the break after the corner too, don’t make that and it’s a 1:1 with Pickford from 40 yards in and nobody catching him

And we scored a minute later.  Moment that turned the .atch potential there.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: duncandisorderly on September 14, 2020, 01:42:01 AM
Shaded it over Allan imo. All over the place, proper box to box display, fucking hell lads looks like we've got a midfield again.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Thornton_19 on September 14, 2020, 01:43:06 AM
Doucoure is a fucking unit isnt he?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on September 14, 2020, 01:48:57 AM
Superb debut, he's only trained a few times as well
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 14, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
Didn’t even look tired at the end. What stamina. Will get some goals too. Think he will look even better than he did a few years back.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 14, 2020, 02:44:31 PM
There was a couple of times when he strode towards their box I thought he was going to have a pop. Maybe we'll see a few more shots off him as he settles in more. I certainly hope so!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 14, 2020, 03:23:13 PM
Guys like Doucoure and Allan have been hand picked to play in Ancelotti's preferred system, but in reality they could fit into practically any midfield dynamic. Every midfield needs an enforcer, and Doucoure has the ability to slot into any shape as a box to box/all round CM.

So happy with those signings and the happiest person will be Ancelotti. It makes his life a heck of a lot easier from here onwards.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on September 14, 2020, 04:12:53 PM
Doucoure is a fucking unit isnt he?

It was nice to see one of our midfielders effortlessly hold off a pressing player and come out with the ball, can’t remember the last time I saw that.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 14, 2020, 05:00:28 PM
It was nice to see one of our midfielders effortlessly hold off a pressing player and come out with the ball, can’t remember the last time I saw that.

Gomes against Liverpool. And we hadn't seen it before then for a long time either!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 14, 2020, 05:03:20 PM
Bit eye opening that. More of that please Abdoulaye.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on September 14, 2020, 05:05:23 PM
It was nice to see one of our midfielders effortlessly hold off a pressing player and come out with the ball, can’t remember the last time I saw that.

Additionally, I think we saw it from ALL FOUR midfielders yesterday as well. Wow.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Lxxx on September 14, 2020, 05:24:38 PM
You'd like to hope we have raised the bar now with the likes of Doucore showing the rest of the midfielders what they should be capable of. Sig looked energetic when he came on and Gomes started well, although faded pretty badly after about 30 minutes though.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: chang on September 14, 2020, 05:48:37 PM
Didn’t even look tired at the end. What stamina. Will get some goals too. Think he will look even better than he did a few years back.

Big pitch too.

Thing that stuck me was that with the team as it was with the players out there the second ball often fell to a blue shirt, Spurs were not allowed to dwell on the ball or they got tackled, numerous passes from the middle out wide going forwards.

If that's a sign of things to come then what a window this has been.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on September 14, 2020, 05:56:02 PM
We are the talk of the town down here lads and ladies. All the boys talking about our performance and result.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: hannu on September 14, 2020, 06:02:12 PM
We are the talk of the town down here lads and ladies. All the boys talking about our performance and result.

Where are u
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on September 14, 2020, 06:06:18 PM
We are the talk of the town down here lads and ladies. All the boys talking about our performance and result.

Same here in Sheffield mate. Puts a little spring in the step doesn't it?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Polledreng on September 14, 2020, 06:16:19 PM
Additionally, I think we saw it from ALL FOUR midfielders yesterday as well. Wow.
was about to answer yesterday.  Was a pleasure to watch that midfield yesterday
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on September 14, 2020, 06:24:18 PM
If we can keep Allan and Doucoure fit we'll have a good season, 100%.

If we can get Gbamin back as well we'll be absolutely flying.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on September 14, 2020, 06:28:21 PM
Same here in Sheffield mate. Puts a little spring in the step doesn't it?

Yup. We run a Fantasy Football League for the kids in school too - loads saying they are going to put James, Allan and Doucoure in their teams.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on September 14, 2020, 06:28:44 PM
Where are u

Cardiff
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Nicco on September 14, 2020, 10:21:19 PM
We are the talk of the town down here lads and ladies. All the boys talking about our performance and result.
Colleges complimented our game at work today. Has never happend before.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on September 14, 2020, 10:53:16 PM
I bet Hojbjerg is seriously regretting turning us down now... Glad he did though, not sure if we'd have bought him instead of Doucoure or Allen, but I think the player's we've ended up with are better as a combo than if Hojbjerg was in there instead of one of them!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on September 14, 2020, 11:12:23 PM
Allan _looks_ like a better player than Hojbjerg (currently)

Hojbjerg has time on his side. Big Al is in a rush to win trophies
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 14, 2020, 11:34:21 PM
Allan _looks_ like a better player than Hojbjerg (currently)

Hojbjerg has time on his side. Big Al is in a rush to win trophies

They're not the same type of player, they do different things, but I'll eat my shorts if Hojberg ever becomes as good as Allan. Allan led Serie A in tackles between the age of 26-28.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on September 14, 2020, 11:46:25 PM
They're not the same type of player, they do different things, but I'll eat my shorts if Hojberg ever becomes as good as Allan. Allan led Serie A in tackles between the age of 26-28.

Do you think we would have bought Allan if we would have got Hojbjerg?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 14, 2020, 11:47:09 PM
Do you think we would have bought Allan if we would have got Hojbjerg?

Yes, but we may not have gone for Doucoure (though he's also different, but closer).
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Nicco on September 14, 2020, 11:56:11 PM
Colleges complimented our game at work today. Has never happend before.

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Oh, and they are a bunch of cranky teachers!

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Paddockoldie on September 15, 2020, 01:50:33 AM
Doucoure is going to be a major success for us. This is the best midfield we've had in many a year. If we can get Gabamin fit and he lives up to his potential we'll have one to envy for sure.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jamokachi on September 15, 2020, 11:06:54 AM
I bet Hojbjerg is seriously regretting turning us down now... Glad he did though, not sure if we'd have bought him instead of Doucoure or Allen, but I think the player's we've ended up with are better as a combo than if Hojbjerg was in there instead of one of them!

Don't start this shit again, it's Allan not Allen ;)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on September 15, 2020, 06:14:14 PM
Trying to think of the last time we had a genuine box to box midfielder. The guys who do proper mileage up and down the middle of the pitch, putting out fires at our end but also popping up in the oppositions box.

FYI Barkley wasn't one. Fellaini could do it but was mostly played further forward
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 15, 2020, 06:44:11 PM
Trying to think of the last time we had a genuine box to box midfielder. The guys who do proper mileage up and down the middle of the pitch, putting out fires at our end but also popping up in the oppositions box.

FYI Barkley wasn't one. Fellaini could do it but was mostly played further forward

Probably Cahill in the first half of 04/05 when we had Gravesen ahead of him.

But we switch him further forward when Arteta came.

McCarthy and Gueye could both get from one end to the other but limited threat. Always disappointed that McCarthy in particular never used to drive forward with the ball more.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 15, 2020, 07:07:00 PM
Hojberg has some good stats but I think he will end up taking Spurs backwards not forwards. I'm not sure he really fits in their side with Winks and they are missing balance.

That said, Spurs will get better, and we caught them unfit, unprepared and pretty much asleep on Sunday.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GLewis on September 15, 2020, 07:13:27 PM
Hojberg has some good stats but I think he will end up taking Spurs backwards not forwards. I'm not sure he really fits in their side with Winks and they are missing balance.

That said, Spurs will get better, and we caught them unfit, unprepared and pretty much asleep on Sunday.

Suppose the issue for them is that winks isn’t very good.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on September 15, 2020, 07:39:55 PM
Yeah what’s the point in Winks? I was over the moon to see him starting with whatshisname on Sunday. Knew we’d pull their pants down in the middle once I saw that.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on September 15, 2020, 07:42:09 PM
I don't know why they aren't building around N'dombele who is clearly their best CM.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 15, 2020, 07:44:05 PM
I don't know why they aren't building around N'dombele who is clearly their best CM.
I don't get it either, Mourinho is a stubborn fucker and it looks like his face doesn't fit, waste of 60 million pounds worth of talent

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 15, 2020, 08:13:21 PM
I don't know why they aren't building around N'dombele who is clearly their best CM.

Wasn't he their record signing?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: wepull on September 15, 2020, 09:44:20 PM
Think N'dombele is not picked because he starts puffing after like 30 mins in the game. Also he's positionally lost and Mourinho doesn't like players who are that way, so it's understandable why he doesn't start.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on September 15, 2020, 11:44:01 PM
Yeah what’s the point in Winks? I was over the moon to see him starting with whatshisname on Sunday. Knew we’d pull their pants down in the middle once I saw that.

When you see Winks up against someone like Allan, it really is men against boys. Also, 2 goals in 144 appearances in a good Spurs team is woeful. Reminds me of Tom Davies, but even he betters him with 6 goals in 121.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: love is love on September 16, 2020, 03:12:30 AM
 Doucouré He is a real big boy, had not realized from watching him with Watford what a commanding physical presence the guy is. Also the french accent   :hug:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on September 16, 2020, 03:23:13 AM
When you see Winks up against someone like Allan, it really is men against boys. Also, 2 goals in 144 appearances in a good Spurs team is woeful. Reminds me of Tom Davies, but even he betters him with 6 goals in 121.
Both shit, but Davies has played significantly more minutes than Winks since their debuts, think its about 1500 more

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ally2 on September 16, 2020, 03:55:10 AM
I've only paid attention to Hojberg in the two games he's played against us recently. On each occasion I was barely aware he was even on the field.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 16, 2020, 03:57:57 AM
I've only paid attention to Hojberg in the two games he's played against us recently. On each occasion I was barely aware he was even on the field.

The one game, you mean.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ally2 on September 16, 2020, 04:03:26 AM
The one game, you mean.

The game against Southampton at the end of last season as well
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 16, 2020, 04:24:48 AM
The game against Southampton at the end of last season as well

Ah, right, he came on toward the very end, right? Forgot he appeared in that one.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on September 16, 2020, 04:28:47 AM
Hojbjerg may well have been great here, we've basically gone down the opposite route of Spurs and bought players that fit together well in a system. Spurs just bought a player who was cheap and had good stats in a position they needed to strengthen, without it seems much thought about how it would knit together.

Appreciate I'm making that judgement on one game and may be proved wrong, but to me it seems like Hojbjerg became a Spurs player, whereas if he'd come to us he'd have been more than that, he'd have been a part of a very specifically chosen midfield.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: howard1334 on September 16, 2020, 02:55:57 PM
Probably Cahill in the first half of 04/05 when we had Gravesen ahead of him.

But we switch him further forward when Arteta came.

McCarthy and Gueye could both get from one end to the other but limited threat. Always disappointed that McCarthy in particular never used to drive forward with the ball more.
Really quite shocking when you think about it.          But then again, there aren't that many genuine box-to-box midfielders out there. 

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on September 27, 2020, 01:55:15 AM
Vital player. He has his flaws in possession sometimes but the ground he covers is essential for how we play.

Has a real nose for recovery runs as well, the tackle on Zaha in the first half was spot on, like the one against Spurs on Lucas whatshisface.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on September 27, 2020, 01:58:10 AM
Vital player. He has his flaws in possession sometimes but the ground he covers is essential for how we play.

Has a real nose for recovery runs as well, the tackle on Zaha in the first half was spot on, like the one against Spurs on Lucas whatshisface.

I remember something a Watford supporter said when asked what we should expect. It was something along the lines of "he'll always be within 20 yds of the ball." Perfect description of his play thus far IMO.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ally2 on September 27, 2020, 02:21:08 AM
I've tried taking our new midfield acquisitions but there's no point. They're all equally essential.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Ari on September 27, 2020, 02:23:38 AM
I see nothing but praise on twitter about Doucoure... today...(fro Sarah Halpin that is...)

I do love the guy.... Everton wise I mean.......
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Fynci on September 27, 2020, 02:25:11 AM
Vital player. He has his flaws in possession sometimes but the ground he covers is essential for how we play.

Has a real nose for recovery runs as well, the tackle on Zaha in the first half was spot on, like the one against Spurs on Lucas whatshisface.

With Pickford between the sticks, that tackle was as good as a goal. It wasn't his best game but he never shied away.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Tinga on September 27, 2020, 02:28:28 AM
Just hope those dodgy passes don't become the norm, they will cost us.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on September 27, 2020, 10:50:48 PM
I remember something a Watford supporter said when asked what we should expect. It was something along the lines of "he'll always be within 20 yds of the ball." Perfect description of his play thus far IMO.

Going to make a great referee.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on September 27, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
Just hope those dodgy passes don't become the norm, they will cost us.

Think it is, according to stats that was put on this forum before. Hopefully, Ancelotti will improve his game for the better.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 01, 2020, 04:21:52 AM
There seems to be a growing sentiment he's a poor passer, which I've found to be slightly odd.

In 21 minutes today, he was 94% on 35 pass attempts. Is it that the 2 missed passes stood out more than the 33 successful ones?

Last Saturday was no different. Yes he had a couple stinkers, but he was still 85% on 58 passes. He's 88% on the season (172 passes) with 4 key passes (3rd behind James & Digne). I can't remember a single poor pass that resulted in anything even remotely negative so I'm curious why the 'eye test' perception is what it is.

Never mind he's 7-7 on tackles, hasn't been dribbled past yet, and has 5 interceptions. I just think he's been absolutely great so far.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Robioto on October 01, 2020, 04:24:16 AM
Proving to be a great singing, better than I expected so far.

Worst thing about him is trying not get annoyed at the surprising number of people spelling his name Dacoure...
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on October 01, 2020, 04:24:42 AM
The ones he did give away today were quite sloppy to be fair.

I think that is why he is perceived to be like that
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 01, 2020, 04:26:25 AM
The ones he did give away today were quite sloppy to be fair.

I think that is why he is perceived to be like that

Sure, but we're talking 2 out of 35 passes. I call it the air travel effect. An airplane can make 1,000 flights and 999 will come off without a peep. It's the 1 that doesn't that everyone remembers (I mean, of course, lol). Obviously that's an overdramatization here but I just find it weird that the focus for some fans seems to be on the ones that don't come off rather than the vast majority that do.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on October 01, 2020, 04:46:36 AM
Sure, but we're talking 2 out of 35 passes. I call it the air travel effect. An airplane can make 1,000 flights and 999 will come off without a peep. It's the 1 that doesn't that everyone remembers (I mean, of course, lol). Obviously that's an overdramatization here but I just find it weird that the focus for some fans seems to be on the ones that don't come off rather than the vast majority that do.

Some of his completed passes weren't great though, the receiver having turn come back to collect it, or it was pinged too hard at him.

He did well when he came on, and his legs seemed to open up the game for James more too... But his passing is a bit erratic even if it does end up with the player getting it.

James finds players with balls that they can just take one touch and be where they need to be... Arteta was like that too, Doucoure it's just not quite right a lot of the time leading to two touches or the player having to check their run.

He's good though, I don't have an issue with him, he's just not a classy passer.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Fieldy618 on October 01, 2020, 04:49:04 AM
His ability to drive the midfield forward is a massive asset and takes the pressure off. Did that really well tonight.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 01, 2020, 04:50:40 AM
Some of his completed passes weren't great though, the receiver having turn come back to collect it, or it was pinged too hard at him.

He did well when he came on, and his legs seemed to open up the game for James more too... But his passing is a bit erratic even if it does end up with the player getting it.

James finds players with balls that they can just take one touch and be where they need to be... Arteta was like that too, Doucoure it's just not quite right a lot of the time leading to two touches or the player having to check their run.

He's good though, I don't have an issue with him, he's just not a classy passer.

See, now that's the type of observation I was looking for, and it's a good one.

Though for the benefit of anyone who ever again plays in an Everton shirt, we'd do well to not compare anyone to James's passing. ;D
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on October 01, 2020, 04:53:55 AM
35 passes in twenty minutes tells you all you need to know.

How many times did our midfielders complete that amount of passes in 90 minutes last season, never mind 20.

He’s never more than ten yards off the play. Always an option on the ball, always ready to impact the game off the ball.

He is clumsy with the ball at his feet and it will cost us a goal sooner or later, but the rest of his game is top level.



Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on October 01, 2020, 05:00:28 AM
35 passes in twenty minutes tells you all you need to know.

How many times did our midfielders complete that amount of passes in 90 minutes last season, never mind 20.

He’s never more than ten yards off the play. Always an option on the ball, always ready to impact the game off the ball.

He is clumsy with the ball at his feet and it will cost us a goal sooner or later, but the rest of his game is top level.

They weren't incisive passes.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on October 01, 2020, 05:03:18 AM
They weren't incisive passes.

No, but that stat shows a midfielder constantly wanting to impact the game, something we’ve been missing for years.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 01, 2020, 05:05:31 AM
No, but that stat shows a midfielder constantly wanting to impact the game, something we’ve been missing for years.

We had a midfield where players wouldn't even get 40 touches let alone passes in a 90-minute game last year. Doucoure is such a polar opposite to that it's not even funny.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on October 01, 2020, 05:07:47 AM
We had a midfield where players wouldn't even get 40 touches let alone passes in a 90-minute game last year. Doucoure is such a polar opposite to that it's not even funny.

Apples and Oranges - we lacked a holding midfielder last season.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on October 01, 2020, 05:14:03 AM
Proving to be a great singing, better than I expected so far.

Worst thing about him is trying not get annoyed at the surprising number of people spelling his name Dacoure...
I love saying his name (albeit in my mind) when I write Doucoure. Much better than Dacoure.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 01, 2020, 05:15:13 AM
I love saying his name (albeit in my mind) when I write Doucoure. Much better than Dacoure.


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Doo-core-ay. :)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on October 01, 2020, 05:47:09 AM
I do like him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on October 01, 2020, 06:19:23 AM
He was a massive part of the win tonight after we lost Allan and Richarlison who both cover tons of ground and get through lots of work. He was able to come on and somehow be everywhere.

His recovery pace is vital as we are still susceptible to breaks or losing the ball in bad areas, and in possession he is seemingly determined to ALWAYS be available as an option.

He is a awkward on the ball, particularly in his passing and lay offs, as someone mentioned he can make some simple passes look a bit hard work, but hes probably got a bit of Yerry Minaitis too, in that his long limbs and ungainly style make him appear uncoordinated.

I'm really warming to him, I've always got time for players who show for the ball and he seems to have good synergy and understanding with a number ofotjer players already. Bit of a managers dream I think.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: pjk on October 01, 2020, 06:26:00 AM
He was a massive part of the win tonight after we lost Allan and Richarlison who both cover tons of ground and get through lots of work. He was able to come on and somehow be everywhere.

His recovery pace is vital as we are still susceptible to breaks or losing the ball in bad areas, and in possession he is seemingly determined to ALWAYS be available as an option.

He is a awkward on the ball, particularly in his passing and lay offs, as someone mentioned he can make some simple passes look a bit hard work, but hes probably got a bit of Yerry Minaitis too, in that his long limbs and ungainly style make him appear uncoordinated.

I'm really warming to him, I've always got time for players who show for the ball and he seems to have good synergy and understanding with a number ofotjer players already. Bit of a managers dream I think.



uncoordinated.

What does that mean? I'm only asking because I get Minaitis. Shit backslang though. :)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on October 01, 2020, 06:26:58 AM


uncoordinated.

What does that mean? I'm only asking because I get Minaitis. Shit backslang though. :)

Like sometimes looks a bit janky and like the ball might not be under as good control as it probably is.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on October 01, 2020, 06:31:19 AM
There seems to be a growing sentiment he's a poor passer, which I've found to be slightly odd.

In 21 minutes today, he was 94% on 35 pass attempts. Is it that the 2 missed passes stood out more than the 33 successful ones?

Last Saturday was no different. Yes he had a couple stinkers, but he was still 85% on 58 passes. He's 88% on the season (172 passes) with 4 key passes (3rd behind James & Digne). I can't remember a single poor pass that resulted in anything even remotely negative so I'm curious why the 'eye test' perception is what it is.

Never mind he's 7-7 on tackles, hasn't been dribbled past yet, and has 5 interceptions. I just think he's been absolutely great so far.

I have discovered that when you shit the bed, even if the rest of the sheets are fresh and clean, all anyone else can see is the steaming pile of shite in the middle and they just will not get back into bed with you.

I guess some people, sad, lonely people, just can't help but focus on the negative.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 01, 2020, 06:39:13 AM


uncoordinated.

What does that mean? I'm only asking because I get Minaitis. Shit backslang though. :)

Uncoordinated is me trying to dribble a basketball. Or doing anything, really.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: pjk on October 01, 2020, 06:45:02 AM
Like sometimes looks a bit janky and like the ball might not be under as good control as it probably is.




Always looked and felt odd as a word. Possibly Teutonic, to work like that?






Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on October 01, 2020, 03:03:05 PM
See, now that's the type of observation I was looking for, and it's a good one.

Though for the benefit of anyone who ever again plays in an Everton shirt, we'd do well to not compare anyone to James's passing. ;D

Yeah, comparing anyone's passing ability to James‘ is nuts.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on October 01, 2020, 03:33:22 PM
I'm a big fan, covers so much ground.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mick 1995 on October 01, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
35 passes in twenty minutes tells you all you need to know.

How many times did our midfielders complete that amount of passes in 90 minutes last season, never mind 20.

He’s never more than ten yards off the play. Always an option on the ball, always ready to impact the game off the ball.

He is clumsy with the ball at his feet and it will cost us a goal sooner or later, but the rest of his game is top level.





In all fairness, the fact he'll cost you a goal every half a dozen games is the reason we got him (and for the money we did).

I'm ok with that, i think of the 3 signings he is Europa league level compared to the champs league for the other two. But considering we had a relegation-candidate midfield last season, i'm 100% ok with that.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 01, 2020, 08:14:43 PM
In all fairness, the fact he'll cost you a goal every half a dozen games is the reason we got him (and for the money we did).

I'm ok with that, i think of the 3 signings he is Europa league level compared to the champs league for the other two. But considering we had a relegation-candidate midfield last season, i'm 100% ok with that.

Ha! Love it. One EL-worthy signing and 2 CL-worthy new midfielders.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on October 01, 2020, 08:19:55 PM
The best way to think of Doucoure is that he connects up the dots and links play together. He fills in gaps in defense, and also helps with interplay between the defense and attack. A proper box to box midfielder. Goals will come, I have no doubt about that and some MOTM performances will also come with increased confidence.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on October 01, 2020, 08:49:31 PM
The best way to think of Doucoure is that he connects up the dots and links play together. He fills in gaps in defense, and also helps with interplay between the defense and attack. A proper box to box midfielder. Goals will come, I have no doubt about that and some MOTM performances will also come with increased confidence.

He sure does.

There was a passage of play yesterday where he won the ball near the right back position in the middle of our half and fed it to a team mate. There were a couple more passes and he receives it on our left near the half way line, then a couple of pass later he's receiving in it on the right channel in the middle of the opposition half.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on October 01, 2020, 10:32:45 PM
I think all those who said “he’s not what we need” will have changed their minds. As important to our change of fortunes as Allan and James, for me.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on October 02, 2020, 12:48:26 AM
The ones he did give away today were quite sloppy to be fair.

I think that is why he is perceived to be like that

Don't let Klopp hear you using that word!!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Goaljira on October 02, 2020, 03:17:16 AM
Don't let Klopp hear you using that word!!

What, toothpaste?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: mikey_blue on October 03, 2020, 10:17:55 PM
https://twitter.com/thechicoazul/status/1312400677231112192
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on October 03, 2020, 10:34:29 PM
The Duke.

Absolutely amazing player.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: NickNack on October 03, 2020, 10:47:43 PM
Brilliant today
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bally on October 03, 2020, 10:48:09 PM
Does this cunt ever stop

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on October 03, 2020, 10:57:51 PM
Machine.

Build the team around him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on October 03, 2020, 11:05:40 PM
Was between him and Mina for my MOM today, but then he lost the ball and would have cost us a goal had Mina not pulled off an insane block, which means Mina gets it... But seriously apart from that one moment I felt he was faultless, an epic performance and extremely important considering Allan and Gomes were absent.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 03, 2020, 11:34:05 PM
Was between him and Mina for my MOM today, but then he lost the ball and would have cost us a goal had Mina not pulled off an insane block, which means Mina gets it... But seriously apart from that one moment I felt he was faultless, an epic performance and extremely important considering Allan and Gomes were absent.

Well then there was that James guy too. lol
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee1 on October 03, 2020, 11:36:57 PM
brilliant performance, covered so much ground.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 03, 2020, 11:45:09 PM
Best game for us so far
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: love is love on October 03, 2020, 11:46:02 PM
Davies man of the match the duke amazing. Tom was so good today
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on October 04, 2020, 12:06:01 AM
Settled in like a dream, the lad. Cracking game, apart from that sloppy pass near the end that led to the Mina block.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: love is love on October 04, 2020, 12:14:24 AM
tom was amazing in 2 positions ?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on October 04, 2020, 12:21:48 AM
Well then there was that James guy too. lol

Haha thought James had his worst game for us in terms of general play, looked a little off the pace and they nullified him a lot when he received the ball deep.

Saying that he scored two and assisted one, so if that's him on an off day I'll take it!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on October 04, 2020, 12:25:49 AM
MOTM today if it wasn't for Mina being a rock at the back with about 5 blocks in the last 15 minutes. Great game.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee1 on October 04, 2020, 02:47:51 AM
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1312474034081157120
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on October 04, 2020, 02:54:32 AM
Absolutely love him.

Just a feel good player isn't he.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee1 on October 04, 2020, 03:01:20 AM
His workrate was amazing today, we've needed an all action player like that for a long time, who can influence at both ends of the pitch.

No wonder Silva wanted him so bad - perfectly dovetails with Allan and allows the others to do their thing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: NickNack on October 04, 2020, 03:05:42 AM
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1312474034081157120
Not bad for someone who can’t pass
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Simon Paul on October 04, 2020, 03:09:42 AM
What's the story Ab Doucoure
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluenose 91 on October 04, 2020, 03:20:15 AM
Unreal today.

Exactly what we've been missing in midfield for god knows how long.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: MexicanToffee on October 04, 2020, 04:08:22 AM
He was brilliant today... so strong on the ball.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: pedrotheblue on October 04, 2020, 04:11:34 AM
https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1312474034081157120
You say you want a revolution..
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on October 04, 2020, 04:23:21 AM
Massive, massive player for us. Really happy to hold my hands up on this one.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on October 04, 2020, 04:27:30 AM
At some point he'll be nicknamed as Doucourécell, the midfielder who goes on and on and on.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Paddockoldie on October 04, 2020, 04:37:07 AM
I'm still wanking over Hamas because he's class without doubt. Decoure was my favourite signing because he's truly box to box and is brilliant in his roles.
He's a keeper
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on October 04, 2020, 04:49:49 AM
What's the story Ab Doucoure

When he covers the pitch
And just makes it his bitch
That's...
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on October 04, 2020, 04:52:08 AM
He's a keeper

Shame he can't replace Pickford then.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 04, 2020, 04:54:31 AM
You can tell he loves it here.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 04, 2020, 08:55:34 PM
Not bad for someone who can’t pass

YankeeBlue214 approves of this message.

What's the story Ab Doucoure

(https://media.giphy.com/media/1zgOyLCRxCmV5G3GFZ/giphy.gif)

Also, hilarious. lolol

Shame he can't replace Pickford then.

The last 15 posts in this thread have been money af.

Well done everyone. :clap:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: mikey_blue on October 07, 2020, 11:52:57 PM
https://twitter.com/evertonnewsfeed/status/1313883146253934593

I’m not going to lie. I like this.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on October 07, 2020, 11:56:05 PM
Baller. He will be starring for France next year.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: velimski on October 07, 2020, 11:57:30 PM
Probably fancies his chances of getting in the French squad.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on October 07, 2020, 11:59:37 PM
Lucas Digne will have a word.

Nkounkou will follow.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: irishtoffee on October 08, 2020, 03:13:47 AM
https://twitter.com/evertonnewsfeed/status/1313883146253934593

I'm not going to lie. I like this.
Mali also called up Adama Traore, who turned them down as he’d already been announced in the Spain squad
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on October 08, 2020, 06:23:20 AM
Find this kind of stuff sad personally
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on October 08, 2020, 07:54:43 AM
Find this kind of stuff sad personally
Why?


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on October 08, 2020, 08:01:35 AM
Barclay was the worst imo.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on October 08, 2020, 10:48:09 AM
Why?


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Think there is a great opportunity for some of these players to improve the lives of many back in poor countries where they originate from. I can see why they don’t and it’s personal for sure.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TSGun on October 08, 2020, 11:21:59 AM
Didn't realise he also had a touch of finesse.

Superb signing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on October 08, 2020, 01:49:22 PM
Think there is a great opportunity for some of these players to improve the lives of many back in poor countries where they originate from. I can see why they don’t and it’s personal for sure.

I know what you mean Con.

But there are two ways - the more successful he is in his career (which includes which national team he plays for) the better off he will be financially. And whilst there are loads of stories about the obscene money footballers are on, there's also lots who give back a great deal to where they came from.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on October 08, 2020, 05:20:00 PM
Think there is a great opportunity for some of these players to improve the lives of many back in poor countries where they originate from. I can see why they don’t and it’s personal for sure.

Gotcha. See what you mean.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on October 08, 2020, 05:28:56 PM
He was born in France though - so I get that more than if he was born in Mali but has turned them down because he thinks he’s better than them and is going on residency/familial link etc
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on October 08, 2020, 05:34:15 PM
He was born in France though - so I get that more than if he was born in Mali but has turned them down because he thinks he’s better than them and is going on residency/familial link etc

Agreed, maybe his dream is to play for France and he probably fancies his chances of getting in their squad on his current form.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Free Agent on October 08, 2020, 08:07:48 PM
He’s been in the French squad at youth levels too. Can’t blame him for wanting to play for them at the senior level.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on October 08, 2020, 08:46:22 PM
I probably feels a close connection to both.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Paddockoldie on October 08, 2020, 11:37:27 PM
I'm saddened they haven't spelt his name right.  :Horse:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Polledreng on October 09, 2020, 01:01:21 AM
He was born in France though - so I get that more than if he was born in Mali but has turned them down because he thinks he’s better than them and is going on residency/familial link etc
  Just like Robin A Dane by birth but playing for Sweden were he grew up
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: irishtoffee on October 09, 2020, 01:20:17 AM
The one that annoyed me was Declan rice. Played underage all the way up with ireland and made 3 senior appearances before switching allegiance. No problem with the Grealish/doucoure situation where they turn down their parents country to play for the one they grew up in. Rice should either have never played Senior for Ireland or once he had he shouldn’t have been allowed to switch
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 09, 2020, 02:56:09 AM
He changed nationalities after getting senior caps?! Is that even allowed?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on October 09, 2020, 02:57:33 AM
He changed nationalities after getting senior caps?! Is that even allowed?

Non competitive fixtures I'm guessing 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: irishtoffee on October 09, 2020, 03:07:52 AM
Non competitive fixtures I'm guessing 🤷‍♂️
Ya he played in 3 friendlies and was then approached by Southgate and switched
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on October 09, 2020, 03:44:10 AM
I had a dream about him last night. Told him he was captain.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on October 10, 2020, 05:09:02 PM
Random thought of the day:

If we'd have signed Doucoure in Silvas first summer when we got Richy (which by all account we tried) do we think he might still be in a job. The main downfall for Silva was the lack of work rate and power in midfield.

I'm glad it didn't work out as we ended up with Carlo but just wonder if Doucoure along with Gueye would have been enough?!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on October 10, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Random thought of the day:

If we'd have signed Doucoure in Silvas first summer when we got Richy (which by all account we tried) do we think he might still be in a job. The main downfall for Silva was the lack of work rate and power in midfield.

I'm glad it didn't work out as we ended up with Carlo but just wonder if Doucoure along with Gueye would have been enough?!

We had some utterly inept managers back to back. Thank fuck they all left
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on October 10, 2020, 05:44:57 PM
Random thought of the day:

If we'd have signed Doucoure in Silvas first summer when we got Richy (which by all account we tried) do we think he might still be in a job. The main downfall for Silva was the lack of work rate and power in midfield.

I'm glad it didn't work out as we ended up with Carlo but just wonder if Doucoure along with Gueye would have been enough?!

No, his ideas were pretty awful.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on October 10, 2020, 05:56:36 PM
At the beginning of last season where everything was going against us, the penalty VAR decisions like the one at Brighton etc, we felt so hard done by and up against it.

In hindsight, I am so glad that all happened. It was the best thing that could have happened. We wouldn't have a world class manager and our first world class player in decades at the club right now.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on October 10, 2020, 06:39:01 PM
Random thought of the day:

If we'd have signed Doucoure in Silvas first summer when we got Richy (which by all account we tried) do we think he might still be in a job. The main downfall for Silva was the lack of work rate and power in midfield.

I'm glad it didn't work out as we ended up with Carlo but just wonder if Doucoure along with Gueye would have been enough?!

Let's not forget the right winger he wanted and didn't get either... Both those may well have made a big difference.

However like you said it all worked out waaay better anyway so nothing but happy feelings towards those missed signings.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 10, 2020, 07:25:31 PM
At the beginning of last season where everything was going against us, the penalty VAR decisions like the one at Brighton etc, we felt so hard done by and up against it.

In hindsight, I am so glad that all happened. It was the best thing that could have happened. We wouldn't have a world class manager and our first world class player in decades at the club right now.

It's always darkest before the dawn, innit.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on October 10, 2020, 09:02:12 PM
It's always darkest before the dawn, innit.
It’s been the longest night ever.

34 years of darkness apart from when the moon came out from behind the clouds of the briefest of moments in 1995/6.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on October 11, 2020, 02:48:53 PM
I probably feels a close connection to both.

Surprised to hear that, what’s your link with Mali?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Polledreng on October 11, 2020, 03:55:25 PM
Random thought of the day:

If we'd have signed Doucoure in Silvas first summer when we got Richy (which by all account we tried) do we think he might still be in a job. The main downfall for Silva was the lack of work rate and power in midfield.

I'm glad it didn't work out as we ended up with Carlo but just wonder if Doucoure along with Gueye would have been enough?!
  I wonder if Silva would have signed Gueye...
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on October 26, 2020, 04:40:23 AM
He's terrible.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on October 26, 2020, 04:42:56 AM
He isn’t
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cereal Killer on October 26, 2020, 04:43:59 AM
He's terrible.

Silva? Doucoure? Iwobi?

If you actually mean Doucoure, can you be any more knee jerk?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on October 26, 2020, 04:48:44 AM
Silva? Doucoure? Iwobi?

If you actually mean Doucoure, can you be any more knee jerk?

I read that in Chandler’s voice.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on October 26, 2020, 04:52:04 AM
Thought he was the only decent midfielder we had and found the decision to bring him off to be strange.

Get him further forward and put someone next to Allan as I think he’s still getting up to speed with the league.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 26, 2020, 04:58:14 AM
He's the reason our season is unraveling.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on October 26, 2020, 05:14:51 AM
Jesus fucking wept
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on October 26, 2020, 08:31:26 AM
Thought he was the only decent midfielder we had and found the decision to bring him off to be strange.

Get him further forward and put someone next to Allan as I think he’s still getting up to speed with the league.
Im with you on this. I wrote that at half time. I thought he looked sharp and as always was all over the pitch, a couple of times he won the ball back up the pitch. Allen looked much better too, but really couldnt understand doucoure being taken off as I thought he was doing well
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 26, 2020, 12:33:13 PM
Absolutely knee jerk flap going on here like! lolol
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on October 26, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
He was good in my opinion yesterday better than Allan should have been left on our problems were at right back and sig and iwobi Doucouré doesn’t need to become our new whipping boy
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on October 26, 2020, 03:02:43 PM
Thought it was strange he came off yesterday.

Least of our problems this fella.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: bigmanbob on October 26, 2020, 03:12:17 PM
Thought he was the only decent midfielder we had and found the decision to bring him off to be strange.

Get him further forward and put someone next to Allan as I think he’s still getting up to speed with the league.


Yep, bit of a strange sub
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on October 26, 2020, 03:15:40 PM
He's terrible.

Do you really think this?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Lxxx on October 26, 2020, 03:44:21 PM
He wasn't the issue yesterday. We had no right back overlapping James and nothing productive from Iwobi and Sig. The Allen/Doucoure pivot is the one of the main reasons we have started so well. Bonkers to suggest he doesn't look like anything but a solid signing, at this stage.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on October 26, 2020, 04:20:16 PM
Do you really think this?

Nah i'd have him playing every week to be honest we'd be awful without him, but he does make it look hard on the ball.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Mayor Farnum on October 26, 2020, 04:23:59 PM
He's been good so far but I can't agree that he was even decent yesterday. By-passed worryingly easily on too many occasions and struggled to keep pace with their midfield.
Still no-one was any better so it's not all on him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TSGun on October 26, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
He's been good, better than I personally thought he'd be.

Yesterday he seemed to be getting caught out trying to do too much, as in overplaying his roll. Perhaps a circumstance of attempting to fill voids left by others in an overall questionable effort.

Not his best game by far but he still showed some intent.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 26, 2020, 05:34:27 PM
He's been good so far but I can't agree that he was even decent yesterday. By-passed worryingly easily on too many occasions and struggled to keep pace with their midfield.
Still no-one was any better so it's not all on him.

Where I'm at as well. He was one of them 5/10 fellas yesterday.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 26, 2020, 06:49:29 PM
Allan and the Duke were trying to cover for that waste of space Gylfi. We were on for a hiding as soon as that waste of space was on the team sheet.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on October 26, 2020, 06:57:19 PM
There were far too many players yesterday where their passing was atrocious. It did look a little bit like the away days of last season, where nothing clicked. I'm not sure anyone could really come out of that game feeling like they did enough to influence it, Doucoure being one of them.

Hey ho. Still top of the league, so hopefully this is a wake up call that we need to push on.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on October 26, 2020, 07:04:15 PM
Him and the Duke were trying to cover for that waste of space Gylfi. We were on for a hiding as soon as that waste of space was on the team sheet.

Fucking captain, as well.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 26, 2020, 08:17:34 PM
Hey mods, is there a way to auto-correct the spelling of Doucoure's name so that it's never wrong? :)

So far I've seen: Doucore, Dacoure, Daucoure, Doucare, Doucaure. My OCD is ruining me.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kramer0 on October 26, 2020, 08:20:47 PM
Hey mods, is there a way to auto-correct the spelling of Doucoure's name so that it's never wrong? :)

So far I've seen: Doucore, Dacoure, Daucoure, Doucare, Doucaure. My OCD is ruining me.

Ross Barclay likes this idea.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 26, 2020, 09:22:26 PM
Fucking captain, as well.



I couldn’t believe that he was still being selected as captain.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on October 26, 2020, 09:34:32 PM
I couldn’t believe that he was still being selected as captain.

Haha, it’s definitely irritating.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on October 26, 2020, 10:21:39 PM
I thought Siggy had turned a bit of a corner in the first few games that I had seen of him this season. Then yesterday he reverted back to type. Why?

Perhaps the fact that he is unable to find that consistency has stopped him from taking that final step in his career. From what I have read, he has the work ethic in training, and clearly has the ability on the pitch to score absolute worldies.

Yet he doesn't actually look bothered most of the time and doesn't try to take control of games at all, which is what you should be doing when you are captain. You are the man everyone looks to and is inspired by. You would never see Seamus have a day like Gylfi had yesterday, he just wouldn't be able to look at himself in the mirror if he didn't give 100% in every game. Coleman might not always be on top form, but he at least gives everything he has every time he steps on the pitch. It's setting the right example for others to follow, and something Siggy has rarely done.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Goaljira on October 27, 2020, 12:25:06 AM
He did look like he wasn't walking completely freely when he came off.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: UnsyisaRhino on October 27, 2020, 01:46:04 AM
I thought Siggy had turned a bit of a corner in the first few games that I had seen of him this season. Then yesterday he reverted back to type. Why?

Perhaps the fact that he is unable to find that consistency has stopped him from taking that final step in his career. From what I have read, he has the work ethic in training, and clearly has the ability on the pitch to score absolute worldies.

Yet he doesn't actually look bothered most of the time and doesn't try to take control of games at all, which is what you should be doing when you are captain. You are the man everyone looks to and is inspired by. You would never see Seamus have a day like Gylfi had yesterday, he just wouldn't be able to look at himself in the mirror if he didn't give 100% in every game. Coleman might not always be on top form, but he at least gives everything he has every time he steps on the pitch. It's setting the right example for others to follow, and something Siggy has rarely done.

I think his football intelligence is pretty low, his technique is great most of the time, but he marks himself out of the game with movement that is either too slow or too late

I hate seeing him ask for the ball when the pass would have been suicidal, especially when he asks people like mina who just can't do it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: formerKHL on October 27, 2020, 01:48:09 AM
Give me a player with skill over a player with technique any day of the week.....
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Elgoodo1978 on October 27, 2020, 02:02:58 AM
Was I watching a different game - I thought he was our best player before he came off. Baffled me that he was subbed

Also thought Sig had a good first 20 mins before he fucked up a simple pass up that AGAIN he never came back from. Seems to happen every time he messes any little thing up.

He plays like an insecure kid effected by his pushy Dad maligning him from the sidelines.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on October 27, 2020, 03:22:52 AM
Hey mods, is there a way to auto-correct the spelling of Doucoure's name so that it's never wrong? :)

So far I've seen: Doucore, Dacoure, Daucoure, Doucare, Doucaure. My OCD is ruining me.

We need a nickname for him to avoid this issue... The Duke? Ducky? The Big D?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on October 27, 2020, 03:24:13 AM
Wait till he starts playing really shit..  Then see the mispellings
Hey mods, is there a way to auto-correct the spelling of Doucoure's name so that it's never wrong? :)

So far I've seen: Doucore, Dacoure, Daucoure, Doucare, Doucaure. My OCD is ruining me.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Goaljira on October 27, 2020, 03:36:47 AM
Hey mods, is there a way to auto-correct the spelling of Doucoure's name so that it's never wrong? :)

So far I've seen: Doucore, Dacoure, Daucoure, Doucare, Doucaure. My OCD is ruining me.

Doucare? People need to be giving this attention.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Simon Paul on October 27, 2020, 03:44:22 AM
Hey mods, is there a way to auto-correct the spelling of Doucoure's name so that it's never wrong? :)

So far I've seen: Doucore, Dacoure, Daucoure, Doucare, Doucaure. My OCD is ruining me.
It's the only way we will be able to gauge how well he was playing when we look back in 10 years time
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on October 27, 2020, 04:02:08 AM
Doucare? People need to be giving this attention.
It's the only way we will be able to gauge how well he was playing when we look back in 10 years time

I'm disliking you both so hard rn.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on October 27, 2020, 04:26:35 AM
I'm disliking you both so hard rn.

I imagined you said this through gritted teeth, whilst knocking one out.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on October 27, 2020, 05:06:39 AM
I see Hojberg is getting rave reviews for his performances.

I think he was out first choice over doucoure, but i think I’d prefer doucoure tbh.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cereal Killer on October 27, 2020, 05:20:14 AM
I see Hojberg is getting rave reviews for his performances.

I think he was out first choice over doucoure, but i think I’d prefer doucoure tbh.

Seen a few Spurs games and he’s had some decent moments and some shitty moments, nothing special really
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Audrey Horne on October 27, 2020, 10:56:01 AM
Hojberg played ok last night but has generally been kinda bad so far imo
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on October 27, 2020, 01:00:05 PM
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought Doucoure’s job as the right of our three CMs is to support the RB since James doesn’t.

In all our earlier games he frequently dropped into that space but didn’t see him doing it on Sunday and we were completely overrun there.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on October 27, 2020, 01:40:19 PM
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought Doucoure’s job as the right of our three CMs is to support the RB since James doesn’t.

In all our earlier games he frequently dropped into that space but didn’t see him doing it on Sunday and we were completely overrun there.

He was having to cover to his left too due to our LCM deciding to place himself in a more advanced position than our target man CF.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on October 27, 2020, 01:50:32 PM
He was having to cover to his left too due to our LCM deciding to place himself in a more advanced position than our target man CF.

Yeah that's how I see it too. When one piece of the jigsaw isn't right (Sigurdsson goal hanging as a centre mid), it unbalances the entire system, and then you have Doucoure having to do the work of two men in the middle, and Allan then losing his positional discipline as the DM, and suddenly the entire thing falls down and we get overrun.

You wonder if there might be a tactical shift as the weekend, and a totally different system, due to the players we'll have out. I think if we do the same again, with players who can't do the jobs asked of them (Sigurdsson and Iwobi), then even Steve Bruce will see where the obvious flaws are.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: AllyBlue14 on October 27, 2020, 05:22:49 PM
Yeah that's how I see it too. When one piece of the jigsaw isn't right (Sigurdsson goal hanging as a centre mid), it unbalances the entire system, and then you have Doucoure having to do the work of two men in the middle, and Allan then losing his positional discipline as the DM, and suddenly the entire thing falls down and we get overrun.

You wonder if there might be a tactical shift as the weekend, and a totally different system, due to the players we'll have out. I think if we do the same again, with players who can't do the jobs asked of them (Sigurdsson and Iwobi), then even Steve Bruce will see where the obvious flaws are.

I agree with the first sentence but draw a slightly different conclusion about the system (although, again, agree that Sigurdsson and Iwobi aren't the answer).

We need to recreate what was so successful in the first few games, so given that 8 players from that team should be available, make the changes as linear as possible - Richarlison -> Gordon, Digne -> Nkounkou, Coleman -> Godfrey.

Bringing in Nkounkou gives us an option going forward on the left and he's done enough to justify a start from his League Cup performances. Godfrey may not be ideal at RB (is there realistically anyone else we could put there?) but if Gomes comes back in and is more disciplined than Sigurdsson, it'd allow Doucoure to help cover.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on October 27, 2020, 07:33:01 PM
I agree with the first sentence but draw a slightly different conclusion about the system (although, again, agree that Sigurdsson and Iwobi aren't the answer).

We need to recreate what was so successful in the first few games, so given that 8 players from that team should be available, make the changes as linear as possible - Richarlison -> Gordon, Digne -> Nkounkou, Coleman -> Godfrey.

Bringing in Nkounkou gives us an option going forward on the left and he's done enough to justify a start from his League Cup performances. Godfrey may not be ideal at RB (is there realistically anyone else we could put there?) but if Gomes comes back in and is more disciplined than Sigurdsson, it'd allow Doucoure to help cover.

If we’re not going to use him in midfield then I’d have Davies at RB over Godfrey, his confidence will be shot after the weekend.

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see him start Sig on the left, although he’s not a like for like with Richarlison he does get close to DCL to support him and he’s keen to get a shot away like Richarlison is. I also think that you avoid the issues he has in the middle of the park if you stick him in the front three.

I’d prefer Gordon, but for whatever reason Ancelotti doesn’t seem keen to give him much time.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2020, 07:56:22 PM
Hojberg's passing rate is about the same as Keane's

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on October 27, 2020, 07:59:41 PM
Hojberg's passing rate is about the same as Keane's



Hojberg has 90% completed this season?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on October 27, 2020, 08:00:48 PM
He had a poor game against us but otherwise he has been very good.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on October 27, 2020, 08:03:28 PM
Spurs are going to be in the Top 3 this season.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2020, 08:04:20 PM
Hojberg and Keane, about 400 passes made
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Polledreng on October 27, 2020, 09:06:18 PM
Hojberg has 90% completed this season?
He could have. Most of his passes (just like when he plays for Denmark) is 5-6 yards passes. Hard to miss those. I'm still happy we didn't sign him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: AllyBlue14 on October 27, 2020, 09:36:07 PM
If we’re not going to use him in midfield then I’d have Davies at RB over Godfrey, his confidence will be shot after the weekend.

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see him start Sig on the left, although he’s not a like for like with Richarlison he does get close to DCL to support him and he’s keen to get a shot away like Richarlison is. I also think that you avoid the issues he has in the middle of the park if you stick him in the front three.

I’d prefer Gordon, but for whatever reason Ancelotti doesn’t seem keen to give him much time.

Tend to see Davies as more of a last 10 minutes kind of right back, play him there when we're out of subs kind of deal. Just not sure how he'd fare for a full 90 minutes. But, like you say, we don't want to hammer Godfrey's confidence 3 matches into his Everton career.

Agree about Gordon/Sig too - Sigurdsson's role should be on the bench, to replace Gomes/Richarlison/James depending on how the game is going. In Richarlison's absence, starting him over Gordon limits our penetration going forward - but given he seems to be the go-to captain in Coleman's absence, it would appear he'll be shoe-horned in somewhere.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on October 27, 2020, 10:32:47 PM
I think his football intelligence is pretty low, his technique is great most of the time, but he marks himself out of the game with movement that is either too slow or too late

I hate seeing him ask for the ball when the pass would have been suicidal, especially when he asks people like mina who just can't do it.
Yeah it doesnt make sense, he seems smart in interviews albeit with Micheal Owen levels of dull. I think its more a mental thing, maybe he gets the fear which makes sense when you think how well he did at Swansea when the pressure was off, at Spurs and with us he hasnt played well consistently, and also how he has done well off the bench, maybe captaincy doesnt help either.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: BlueForYou on October 27, 2020, 10:36:03 PM
Sigurdsson has to be dropped as captaincy stand-in
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 07, 2020, 08:34:47 PM
If brands really chased Doucoure for two years then it's a massive question mark over him for me.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 07, 2020, 08:37:26 PM
Thought he was decent myself.

People will just focus on that last two minutes though but he did what he’s supposed to do for the most part.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Heisenberg on November 07, 2020, 08:37:34 PM
He’s nowhere near the group of bad players in our team. But yes, he’s not great. Doesn’t do a lot offensively or defensively. Needs to buck his ideas up before Gbamin returns and 4231 may be used without Doucoure
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on November 07, 2020, 08:39:16 PM
Don't mind him.

Bad game today like but he is far from the issue.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 07, 2020, 08:40:19 PM
Thought he was decent myself.

People will just focus on that last two minutes though but he did what he’s supposed to do for the most part.

I thought he was average throughout with spots of horrible.

Just another bang bang average player who doesn't move us closer to our goal at the wrong end of his career.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 07, 2020, 08:44:40 PM
I thought he was average throughout with spots of horrible.

Just another bang bang average player who doesn't move us closer to our goal at the wrong end of his career.



I don’t think a midfielder has ever had a good game for us playing next to Sigurdsson. He vacates his position leaving massive gaps for the fella next to him to cover and not having an option when they’re on the ball.

Thought he was one of the only few players that actually got close to the opposition and won the ball to start counters.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 07, 2020, 08:48:08 PM
I don’t think a midfielder has ever had a good game for us playing next to Sigurdsson. He vacates his position leaving massive gaps for the fella next to him to cover and not having an option when they’re on the ball.

Thought he was one of the only few players that actually got close to the opposition and won the ball to start counters.



Allan second half held the midfield together on and off the ball.

Doucoure is just a midtable player for me I think. Which is fine. It's just not good, and not what a director of football trying to build a club should be signing. Expensive flotsam.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on November 07, 2020, 08:54:15 PM
Allan second half held the midfield together on and off the ball.

Doucoure is just a midtable player for me I think. Which is fine. It's just not good, and not what a director of football trying to build a club should be signing. Expensive flotsam.
Not really that expensive though, not many proven prem midfielders for less than 20 million. Thought he was fine today, if we have someone else in the midfield with him and allen he will start to have some good games for us
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 07, 2020, 08:57:48 PM
Echo has him down as our best midfielder today. Didn’t think he did much wrong. To call Siggurdson a passenger is an insult to passengers.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on November 07, 2020, 09:00:06 PM
Tend to agree with brap. Mid-table player.

Might be able to have him doing a specific, limited job in a very high functioning midfield,  but certainly not the significant, transformative player we could've done with, and he's not likely to be getting much better at this stage of his career.

More average recruitment.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on November 07, 2020, 09:08:59 PM
Yeah expect a lot from him
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kramer0 on November 07, 2020, 09:16:14 PM
This was never going to be anything more than a dead average signing.

I don’t mind him but I think we could have done better with that money.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool on November 07, 2020, 09:23:42 PM
I think when gbamin is alongside him, they will form a decent pair of def mids, with Allan in FRONT of that two and not BEHIND them, which would allow more link-up play with a more central James, as we saw when we moves things around today, in ine of the few positives. There is no room in this style of play for a Sigurdsson or Im afraid a slow Gomes.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Silas on November 07, 2020, 09:28:04 PM
He's not been great but neither he or Alan are the issue it's which fuckwit to put with them since they have all been fifty shades of shite

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 07, 2020, 09:28:37 PM
When DCL, Richarlison, and James were purring he looked fine, with his rangy covering and enthusiasm.

Now that no one is shining, and nothing is happening, he looks like what he is: An energetic, but technically limited, top-half midfielder.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee_4_Life on November 07, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
I bet I could go back to the match day threads of the first few ganes and see posts of the same people calling him out now, saying he's been a great signing.

You can't judge any midfielder playing next to Sigurdson, especially with our best player missing who does so much for us tracking back as well as going forwards.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 07, 2020, 09:43:41 PM
I bet I could go back to the match day threads of the first few ganes and see posts of the same people calling him out now, saying he's been a great signing.

You can't judge any midfielder playing next to Sigurdson, especially with our best player missing who does so much for us tracking back as well as going forwards.

Even odds on that bet.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Stumpy on November 07, 2020, 09:54:42 PM
He's not been great but neither he or Alan are the issue it's which fuckwit to put with them since they have all been fifty shades of shite

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Bang on.
They are not the problem.
The real problem is that no matter which other player goes with them they contribute very very little.
We just have to hope that Gbamin is the answer.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 07, 2020, 11:33:17 PM
Spends most of the game covering for James and Coleman... Kind of feels like he has too many jobs to do and that means he doesn't do anything to massively impact the game.

Thought he was good at all the donkey work today, did his job well... The other players who need to be creative didn't and that cost us dearly.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 07, 2020, 11:50:42 PM
Spends most of the game covering for James and Coleman... Kind of feels like he has too many jobs to do and that means he doesn't do anything to massively impact the game.

Thought he was good at all the donkey work today, did his job well... The other players who need to be creative didn't and that cost us dearly.
We play 433. If you look at how the shite play, it’s integral to their play that their CMs cover the marauding fullbacks. Same with City.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: col2569 on November 07, 2020, 11:55:59 PM
Ye but while their cms cover they still have potent quality up front ..we don't...doucoure was I assume bought as a box to box midfielder an while he's tied up covering loses that impact
We play 433. If you look at how the shite play, it's integral to their play that their CMs cover the marauding fullbacks. Same with City.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 07, 2020, 11:56:14 PM
We play 433. If you look at how the shite play, it’s integral to their play that their CMs cover the marauding fullbacks. Same with City.


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Yeah I'm not saying it in a negative way, just that I think a lot of his work is for the team and goes unnoticed... Don't have any issues with how he played today personally, just more that if he does his job it only works if others do theirs too, and the creative players didn't contribute enough today.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on November 08, 2020, 12:08:16 AM
We can’t get the best out of doucoure in a 4-3-3 with Sigurdsson in the team you need three mobile comfortable on the ball players what we need in there is a grealish/Barkley type player
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 08, 2020, 12:40:19 AM
We can’t get the best out of doucoure in a 4-3-3 with Sigurdsson in the team you need three mobile comfortable on the ball players what we need in there is a grealish/Barkley type player

If we don't move James centrally in the next game I hope we move Bernard there instead... We absolutely have to have an end to Sig in there, it's becoming embarrassing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on November 08, 2020, 01:15:55 AM
If we don't move James centrally in the next game I hope we move Bernard there instead... We absolutely have to have an end to Sig in there, it's becoming embarrassing.
Agreed he doesn’t do anything good anymore Davies would be better suited to the midfield 3 role we have to play a system which gets the most of James and dcl
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on November 08, 2020, 01:27:22 AM
Thought he was very good and was the only player busting a guy all game to give DCL some support. His finishing wasn’t great granted but he got there and was generally back to help Coleman.

Think you guys expect miracles from every player every game.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on November 08, 2020, 01:48:10 AM
Thought he was very good and was the only player busting a guy all game to give DCL some support. His finishing wasn't great granted but he got there and was generally back to help Coleman.

Think you guys expect miracles from every player every game.
I was talking about sig not doucoure love doucoure and his powerful play
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 08, 2020, 02:48:38 AM
I was talking about sig not doucoure love doucoure and his powerful play

tbf this is the Doucoure thread.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 08, 2020, 03:52:50 AM
Thought he was very good and was the only player busting a guy all game to give DCL some support. His finishing wasn’t great granted but he got there and was generally back to help Coleman.

Think you guys expect miracles from every player every game.

Sure Doucoure can run around but his technical attributes are limited and his positional play is suspect as well.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 08, 2020, 04:12:00 AM
Sure Doucoure can run around but his technical attributes are limited and his positional play is suspect as well.

Covering for Sigurdsson will test a players orienteering skills.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 08, 2020, 04:10:50 PM
I don’t think a midfielder has ever had a good game for us playing next to Sigurdsson. He vacates his position leaving massive gaps for the fella next to him to cover and not having an option when they’re on the ball.

Thought he was one of the only few players that actually got close to the opposition and won the ball to start counters.



Coming down somewhere in the middle of my originally point of this guy is an average midfielder and we should have spent the money better and your point of - anyone played alongside gylfi in any capacity is on to a hiding.

Need to simplify his job a little. Double pivot time. Allan and Doucoure press and tackle together and push the ball to a man in the half space ahead of them.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Juanito on November 08, 2020, 05:17:27 PM
Coming down somewhere in the middle of my originally point of this guy is an average midfielder and we should have spent the money better and your point of - anyone played alongside gylfi in any capacity is on to a hiding.

Need to simplify his job a little. Double pivot time. Allan and Doucoure press and tackle together and push the ball to a man in the half space ahead of them.

Seeing the gaping holes yesterday , I wondered how Gbamin would do holding there with Allen and Doucoure pressing ahead of him, leaving Richarlison, James and DCL freedom up top on their own.  We miss a Gareth Barry type.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 08, 2020, 05:57:47 PM
Seeing the gaping holes yesterday , I wondered how Gbamin would do holding there with Allen and Doucoure pressing ahead of him, leaving Richarlison, James and DCL freedom up top on their own.  We miss a Gareth Barry type.

Literally anyone's guess... Maybe he'll end up being a good player for us, but there was no guarantee of that prior to two massive injuries, let alone after.  May well never be anything useful for us and I don't think we can hope for much... If he becomes any sort of first yeamer it'd be a huge bonus considering everything.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 08, 2020, 06:00:01 PM
Seeing the gaping holes yesterday , I wondered how Gbamin would do holding there with Allen and Doucoure pressing ahead of him, leaving Richarlison, James and DCL freedom up top on their own.  We miss a Gareth Barry type.

Yeah, exactly what I said.

Either Gbamin, or someone who sits.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 08, 2020, 06:00:25 PM
Coming down somewhere in the middle of my originally point of this guy is an average midfielder and we should have spent the money better and your point of - anyone played alongside gylfi in any capacity is on to a hiding.

Need to simplify his job a little. Double pivot time. Allan and Doucoure press and tackle together and push the ball to a man in the half space ahead of them.

I’d be interested to see the position map from that game. I’d hazard a guess that he had 30 yards of gaps either side of him.

He is average, I don’t think anyone could say he’s top class. But he has a skill set that we’ve been missing for absolute years and in the right balance he can be a very good player.

I agree with you about the double pivot. We’re all sick of 4231 but I think it’s the way we need to go now.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Kilvin on November 08, 2020, 06:30:56 PM
Agree on the 4231 shouts, we may be sick of it after previous managers but the prospect of James there instead of Sigurdsson would make it more palatable. Problem would remain on the right, if only we could rely on Iwobi to do as least as well as he did yesterday at least until January
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 02:44:47 AM
Covering for Sigurdsson will test a players orienteering skills.

What a load of nonsense.

The reality is Doucoure failed to track his man in the game against Man U. He then went ball chasing leaving Allan to move over to mark a player and Sigurdsson to face dealing with two players. Doucoure was marking no one when Fernandes scored.

Doucoure done a similar thing with Liverpool by failing to track Mane who ended up scoring a goal.

Doucoure also failed to deal with Ings whose cross led to a goal which basically killed the game.

None of those failings had anything to do with Sigurdsson.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 10, 2020, 02:47:44 AM
Cannot wait until Gylfi fucks off.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 03:05:48 AM
Cannot wait until Gylfi fucks off.

There wasn't much Gylfi could have done to stop the first goal. But I guess it is easy to get on the 'I dislike Siggy' bandwagon rather than analysing a game of football.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 10, 2020, 03:11:23 AM
He makes it easy to aboard the wagon of band
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 03:20:53 AM
He makes it easy to aboard the wagon of band

Another statement lacking in a full understanding of the game. So remind me, where was Siggy responsible for all of the goals conceded last Saturday?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on November 10, 2020, 03:35:27 AM
He makes it easy to aboard the wagon of band
He's built some steps and hired some weightlifter to help you onto his wagon. Hes waiting there, takes your 50 quid entry fee and gives your some dry sandwiches and a glass of tap water. You keep going back because sometimes hes there serving champagne and garrys and kylie is there singing her greatest hits, but 99 times out of 100 its just the tap water and hes hiding behind a pot plant counting his money.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 10, 2020, 03:41:10 AM
What a load of nonsense.

The reality is Doucoure failed to track his man in the game against Man U. He then went ball chasing leaving Allan to move over to mark a player and Sigurdsson to face dealing with two players. Doucoure was marking no one when Fernandes scored.

Doucoure done a similar thing with Liverpool by failing to track Mane who ended up scoring a goal.

Doucoure also failed to deal with Ings whose cross led to a goal which basically killed the game.

None of those failings had anything to do with Sigurdsson.

You’re talking shit, as per, you dullard.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 10, 2020, 03:42:15 AM
Another statement lacking in a full understanding of the game. So remind me, where was Siggy responsible for all of the goals conceded last Saturday?

Absolutely no chance you’re getting more than two sentences worth of effort out of me mate.

No matter how much you love him he will always be an abysmal use of funds and a dead weight until his contract expires.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 03:46:01 AM
You’re talking shit, as per, you dullard.

I can easily attribute three faults by Doucoure and the best you can do is name calling. Even on that shows what a stupid prick you are.

Absolutely no chance you’re getting more than two sentences worth of effort out of me mate.

No matter how much you love him he will always be an abysmal use of funds and a dead weight until his contract expires.

Looks like it's going to be a long wait for some actual answer on the football play front.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 10, 2020, 04:13:23 AM
I can easily attribute three faults by Doucoure and the best you can do is name calling. Even on that shows what a stupid prick you are.

Looks like it's going to be a long wait for some actual answer on the football play front.

Absolutely no chance on the footy chat fella. No chance whatsoever.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 04:16:10 AM
Absolutely no chance on the footy chat fella. No chance whatsoever.

I can tell neither of you are able to provide a good understanding on how the game is played.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 10, 2020, 04:21:45 AM
I can tell neither of you are able to provide a good understanding on how the game is played.

I guess the only sensible thing for you to do is give up? There’s just no hope.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 04:25:05 AM
I guess the only sensible thing for you to do is give up? There’s just no hope.

I've already given up. Hence my slating off your football knowledge!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 10, 2020, 04:37:12 AM
I've already given up. Hence my slating off your football knowledge!

Well at least we both agree on Gylfi being a waste of money and shouldn’t be near the starting eleven.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jamokachi on November 10, 2020, 04:37:51 AM
Cannot wait until Gylfi fucks off.

Last 3 games haven't been a coincidence, have they?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 04:39:39 AM
Well at least we both agree on Gylfi being a waste of money and shouldn’t be near the starting eleven.

Irrelevant really. Doucoure is a first team player with absolutely no ability compared to Siggy.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 04:45:07 AM
Last 3 games haven't been a coincidence, have they?

Or a coincidence that Everton hasn't won a game without Richarlison according to what I've heard in a recent Ancelotti press conference.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 10, 2020, 04:47:04 AM
Another statement lacking in a full understanding of the game. So remind me, where was Siggy responsible for all of the goals conceded last Saturday?

For the first goal he looked at Fernandes, pointed at him to say ‘somebody Mark him’ and proceeded to stay where he was and let him run and score.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 04:48:20 AM
Allan- 51 passes
Doucoure- 44 passes
Sigurdsson- 27 passes

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 04:50:01 AM
Sigurdsson- 0 tackles and 1 interceptions
Doucoure- 6 tackles 0 interceptions
Allan- 6 tackles 0 interceptions

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 10, 2020, 04:57:35 AM
Allan- 51 passes
Doucoure- 44 passes
Sigurdsson- 27 passes



He's a war criminal.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:01:23 AM
For the first goal he looked at Fernandes, pointed at him to say ‘somebody Mark him’ and proceeded to stay where he was and let him run and score.

Siggy moved forward a few yards to stand in front of Juan Mata which I felt was a bit odd.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:10:28 AM
Allan- 51 passes
Doucoure- 44 passes
Sigurdsson- 27 passes

It'll be interesting if those passes are broken down according to distance. Doucoure and Allan having completing more passes due to the ball not travelling far.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 10, 2020, 05:22:20 AM
It'll be interesting if those passes are broken down according to distance. Doucoure and Allan having completing more passes due to the ball not travelling far.

Mate, I defended him for ages, I don’t like slagging players off as a general rule (Pickford being the exception) but Griffin is garbage.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:27:18 AM
Mate, I defended him for ages, I don’t like slagging players off as a general rule (Pickford being the exception) but Griffin is garbage.

i was simply asking for a breakdown in the stats. My understanding of Everton's tactical play is that much of the passing occurs between the central defence and the midfield pivot points of Doucoure and Allan. 
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 10, 2020, 06:05:22 AM
i was simply asking for a breakdown in the stats. My understanding of Everton's tactical play is that much of the passing occurs between the central defence and the midfield pivot points of Doucoure and Allan. 

It doesn't matter really, what matters is that even as a central midfielder he Is managing to avoid the ball both in and out of possession.

Then obviously the fact that he didn't manage a single pass to the striker.

It's undeniable I'm afraid, he's fugazi.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:27:32 AM
It doesn't matter really, what matters is that even as a central midfielder he Is managing to avoid the ball both in and out of possession.

Then obviously the fact that he didn't manage a single pass to the striker.

It's undeniable I'm afraid, he's fugazi.

It does matter I'm afraid. If you look at the heat map, Sigurdsson was playing further up the field and is likely to receive the ball less compared with Allan and Doucoure. You have to analyse the context of the game with the stats.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 10, 2020, 06:32:00 AM
It does matter I'm afraid. If you look at the heat map, Sigurdsson was playing further up the field and is likely to receive the ball less compared with Allan and Doucoure. You have to analyse the context of the game with the stats.

So how did he play zero passes to our forward?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:38:20 AM
So how did he play zero passes to our forward?

Perhaps he was asked to cover for Digne as he bombed forward. DCL was mostly on the right hand side from memory.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: BlueNoseMike on November 10, 2020, 06:42:22 AM
Perhaps he was asked to cover for Digne as he bombed forward. DCL was mostly on the right hand side from memory.

Come on man
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on November 10, 2020, 06:42:30 AM
Perhaps he was asked to cover for Digne as he bombed forward. DCL was mostly on the right hand side from memory.

But with his amazing passing range I am sure he could of passed to DCL just once in 90 minutes as the furthest forward player or maybe get into a position to cross or maybe take a half decent set piece which supposedly his strength. They were all of the Jagielka chip up field variety.  He should never ever be standing over a dead ball in an Everton shirt if either of James or Digne is on the pitch.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:57:19 AM
You guys are so obsessed with Siggy that it can't be healthy.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on November 10, 2020, 07:05:04 AM
Obsessed would mean that we look hard for faults and spend all our time analyzing. Yet what he does in a 5 minute span is pretty much the whole game. Not much in other words. Not sure when last he broke a sweat?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toffee Tuesdays on November 10, 2020, 08:39:08 AM
You guys are so obsessed with Siggy that it can't be healthy.

Def not, my doctor said it would be best for my health if Sig was left on the bench. He sent a note to Moshiri but it obviously didn’t get there in time.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 11:55:03 AM
It'll be interesting if those passes are broken down according to distance. Doucoure and Allan having completing more passes due to the ball not travelling far.

Pass completion is around the same for all three of them which would suggest there’s not much difference in the type of pass they were playing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: mikey_blue on November 10, 2020, 12:11:52 PM
When Gbamin is back fit, hopefully we can see some of the player that we thought we would when he signed. Another athletic strong CM in the midfield could allow Doucoure to be the furthest forward of the three and we might see him breaking forward into the box more.

At the minute he’s just a bit awkward to watch. He’s good a chasing back and closing down, but he’s not great with the ball at his feet.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 10, 2020, 01:55:58 PM
For the first goal he looked at Fernandes, pointed at him to say ‘somebody Mark him’ and proceeded to stay where he was and let him run and score.

This is exactly what happened, I didn't spot it live (just couldn't understand why no midfielder had tracked him) but on MOTD it was clear as day.  Looks round, sees him, points and shouts, turns back the way he was facing, runs away and towards where two Everton players are already standing.

I have said before he's good at pressing the ball, and I think this is why Ancelloti plays him, so he's probably been given instructions by the manager to do just that... Which might explain why he went to close down the ball instead of dealing with the danger of Fernandez being unmarked and passed him on.

HOWEVER that's no excuse, he's an experienced player who needs to take responsibility, if he sees an unmarked player he needs to go with that msn and not press a ball already being pressedby two other players.

That shirking of responsibility has cost us before, and it cost us here too.  If it's Doucoure's fault Fernandez got in that position or not isn't particularly relevant as Sig had the opportunity to deal with him and didn't, and that's what cost us that goal.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 10, 2020, 02:59:37 PM
It does matter I'm afraid. If you look at the heat map, Sigurdsson was playing further up the field and is likely to receive the ball less compared with Allan and Doucoure. You have to analyse the context of the game with the stats.

Ok bud
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 10, 2020, 04:08:10 PM
I can easily attribute three faults by Doucoure and the best you can do is name calling. Even on that shows what a stupid prick you are.

Looks like it's going to be a long wait for some actual answer on the football play front.

You know fuck all.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 04:10:51 PM
Interestingly, the best midfield performance this season has come when we played Sigurddson, Davies and Doucoure against Brighton.

Davies made five interceptions and three tackles that day, with Doucoure and Sig playing their best football with the ball.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:15:31 PM
You know fuck all.

I guess you are an expert then by jumping on bandwagons without actually understanding the game.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:18:24 PM
Obsessed would mean that we look hard for faults and spend all our time analyzing. Yet what he does in a 5 minute span is pretty much the whole game. Not much in other words. Not sure when last he broke a sweat?

Obsessed yes. Very little evidence of analysing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:22:15 PM
This is exactly what happened, I didn't spot it live (just couldn't understand why no midfielder had tracked him) but on MOTD it was clear as day.  Looks round, sees him, points and shouts, turns back the way he was facing, runs away and towards where two Everton players are already standing.

I have said before he's good at pressing the ball, and I think this is why Ancelloti plays him, so he's probably been given instructions by the manager to do just that... Which might explain why he went to close down the ball instead of dealing with the danger of Fernandez being unmarked and passed him on.

HOWEVER that's no excuse, he's an experienced player who needs to take responsibility, if he sees an unmarked player he needs to go with that msn and not press a ball already being pressedby two other players.

That shirking of responsibility has cost us before, and it cost us here too.  If it's Doucoure's fault Fernandez got in that position or not isn't particularly relevant as Sig had the opportunity to deal with him and didn't, and that's what cost us that goal.

Allan and Doucoure weren't marking anyone when the first goal was scored. At least Sig was marking Mata which you have conveniently left out in your post.

As Carlo said in his after match interview you have to defend as a team. Allan and Doucoure went ball chasing causing overloads in our own penalty box.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 10, 2020, 05:28:36 PM
Allan and Doucoure weren't marking anyone when the first goal was scored. At least Sig was marking Mata which you have conveniently left out in your post.

As Carlo said in his after match interview you have to defend as a team. Allan and Doucoure went ball chasing causing overloads in our own penalty box.

He wasn't marking anyone ffs... he ran to the ball which already had two players there doing the same job.  You could argue he was closing down the ball if you wanted to make a case for him doing SOMETHING, but marking someone he most certainly wasn't.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:31:12 PM
He wasn't marking anyone ffs... he ran to the ball which already had two players there doing the same job.  You could argue he was closing down the ball if you wanted to make a case for him doing SOMETHING, but marking someone he most certainly wasn't.

Allan was at least six yards off chasing the ball so I wouldn't call that marking. Doucoure was some distance away.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 10, 2020, 05:36:10 PM
I guess you are an expert then by jumping on bandwagons without actually understanding the game.

There’s zero point in engaging you.

Bye 👋🏼
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:38:46 PM
There’s zero point in engaging you.

Bye 👋🏼

Good - zero contribution on football - 100% contribution on name calling.

You won't be missed!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 05:40:50 PM
I guess you are an expert then by jumping on bandwagons without actually understanding the game.

I'm providing stats for you here with some reasoning behind them.

How would you explain Sigurdssons dreadful output over the last 18 months?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on November 10, 2020, 05:41:17 PM
There were multiple errors in the lead up to the goal

But all 3 CM's were chasing the ball and all 3 were further to the right than Fernandes when the ball comes in.

Just poor organisation all round. You can argue Sig is the most out of position. But I think it's something that needs to be drilled on in training.

I think the Sig is fine to tell someone else to pick up Fernandes but just pointing and then dashing towards the ball and abandoning your man is not a good way to do so. If he sees a player unmarked he should stay with him or scream at a team mate to pick him up and not leave him until he is sure fernandes has been marked


Also how the fuck do you embed images you upload into your posts?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:44:16 PM
I'm providing stats for you here with some reasoning behind them.

How would you explain Sigurdssons dreadful output over the last 18 months?

I've explained this one before though not on this thread. He's not a defensive midfielder yet you lot unfairly judge him on those metrics.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 05:49:20 PM
I've explained this one before though not on this thread. He's not a defensive midfielder yet you lot unfairly judge him on those metrics.

Let’s judge him on his goals, assists and chance creation then.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 10, 2020, 05:49:26 PM
Good - zero contribution on football - 100% contribution on name calling.

You won't be missed!  :thumbsup:

Dude, those of us you’ve decided to argue with provide loads of our football opinions on this forum, and on this thread.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 10, 2020, 05:53:59 PM
There were multiple errors in the lead up to the goal

But all 3 CM's were chasing the ball and all 3 were further to the right than Fernandes when the ball comes in.

Just poor organisation all round. You can argue Sig is the most out of position. But I think it's something that needs to be drilled on in training.

I think the Sig is fine to tell someone else to pick up Fernandes but just pointing and then dashing towards the ball and abandoning your man is not a good way to do so. If he sees a player unmarked he should stay with him or scream at a team mate to pick him up and not leave him until he is sure fernandes has been marked


Also how the fuck do you embed images you upload into your posts?
6 men against 4
Makes it more embarrassing
Sigurdsson is within yds of Fernandes there, he should go with him to the point of handing him over, the 2 lads outside the box arent going to fill it so if the ball goes backwards he has time to get there

Not being a defensive mf doesnt cut as an excuse for not doing the basics
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:55:27 PM
There were multiple errors in the lead up to the goal

But all 3 CM's were chasing the ball and all 3 were further to the right than Fernandes when the ball comes in.

Just poor organisation all round. You can argue Sig is the most out of position. But I think it's something that needs to be drilled on in training.

I think the Sig is fine to tell someone else to pick up Fernandes but just pointing and then dashing towards the ball and abandoning your man is not a good way to do so. If he sees a player unmarked he should stay with him or scream at a team mate to pick him up and not leave him until he is sure fernandes has been marked


Also how the fuck do you embed images you upload into your posts?

"You can argue Sig is the most out of position."

True but his counterpart his Mata. Therefore he's entitled to be in that position. Fully agree on the issue of communications. However, I have to say that communications ought to come from the back 4.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 05:56:27 PM
Let’s judge him on his goals, assists and chance creation then.

Of course, when he's put in his position and playing regularly.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on November 10, 2020, 05:58:37 PM
Yeah, depends where they are supposed to be marking space or a man.

To be honest I think there are deeper structural issues with the set up

I posted a twitter thread in another thread on here about Allan and how he gets easily dragged out of position.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 05:59:30 PM
Of course, when he's put in his position and playing regularly.

So, he makes no tackles, no interceptions, no chances, doesn't get on the ball, doesn't score goals, doesn't do anything off the ball.

Over the last eighteen months what has he been good at?

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on November 10, 2020, 06:01:19 PM
He's not even Phil Neville level at pointing
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 10, 2020, 06:16:43 PM
So, he makes no tackles, no interceptions, no chances, doesn't get on the ball, doesn't score goals, doesn't do anything off the ball.

Over the last eighteen months what has he been good at?



Pressing. Like Rainman with driving, he’s an excellent presser.

I think he likes it because it excuses him from not tackling or getting on the ball.

And, he’s so eager to do it, he ran to press on Saturday, rather than picking up their free man that he had spotted.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:20:05 PM
So, he makes no tackles, no interceptions, no chances, doesn't get on the ball, doesn't score goals, doesn't do anything off the ball.

Over the last eighteen months what has he been good at?

He's not played in his normal position.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 06:21:57 PM
He's not played in his normal position.

Is that all you have oh enlightened one?

You don't think he should be able to adapt to playing a slightly different role better?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:27:15 PM
Is that all you have oh enlightened one?

You don't think he should be able to adapt to playing a slightly different role better?

Players have strengths and weaknesses. A number 10 role is completely different to being a DM. Completely different skill-sets and mentality.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 06:29:50 PM
Players have strengths and weaknesses. A number 10 role is completely different to being a DM. Completely different skill-sets and mentality.

He's not playing DM.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:33:56 PM
He's not playing DM.

That doesn't change the argument. Sig has no defensive attributes apart from pressing.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 06:35:31 PM
That doesn't change the argument. Sig has no defensive attributes apart from pressing.

You're right there. He doesn't have any attacking ones either which is a shame for the lad.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:39:24 PM
You're right there. He doesn't have any attacking ones either which is a shame for the lad.

I disagree with you there. Siggy is the type of player who comes alive around the 18 yard box.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on November 10, 2020, 06:47:18 PM
I disagree with you there. Siggy is the type of player who comes alive around the 18 yard box.



You either have to be world class like James or offer more in other parts of the field in modern football and he is unfortunately neither
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 10, 2020, 06:51:15 PM
Nothing unifies a fan base like a laughably shite player. Same way that nothing unifies a footy forum quite like a village Idiot.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Audrey Horne on November 10, 2020, 06:52:12 PM
I disagree with you there. Siggy is the type of player who comes alive around the 18 yard box.



How many goals and assists the last few years? For someone who comes alive in the box, he sure is shite.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:52:24 PM
You either have to be world class like James or offer more in other parts of the field in modern football and he is unfortunately neither

In which case sell Siggy. But I'm not going to berate him for not being a midfielder with defensive skill-sets.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on November 10, 2020, 06:53:47 PM
You're right there. He doesn't have any attacking ones either which is a shame for the lad.
I don't like these ones as essentially it's highlighting the least shit, but he does have more goals and assists than Iwobi, who lots have been saying should start as he's much more creative. But like I said, neither are good enough, so I'll leave it there.

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:54:20 PM
How many goals and assists the last few years? For someone who comes alive in the box, he sure is shite.

He was joint top scorer in one season so he can't be that shit. Can you strike a ball the way he does? Of course not.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:56:24 PM
Nothing unifies a fan base like a laughably shite player. Same way that nothing unifies a footy forum quite like a village Idiot.

Ah again further name calling but no knowledge of football. I guess you were a loser at school when no one wanted you in their football team!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Audrey Horne on November 10, 2020, 06:56:32 PM
He was joint top scorer in one season so he can't be that shit. Can you strike a ball the way he does? Of course not.

What the hell has that got anything to do with it? Im not a fucking Premier League footballer so why would i need to strike a ball like he does?

Jeeeez.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 10, 2020, 06:59:07 PM
What the hell has that got anything to do with it? Im not a fucking Premier League footballer so why would i need to strike a ball like he does?

Jeeeez.

Not much understanding of football either by the sounds of it. This reminds of my former line manager who thought she knew more about football because she watches Arsenal without actually playing the game! The silly twat!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Audrey Horne on November 10, 2020, 07:00:16 PM
Not much understanding of football either by the sounds of it. This reminds of my former line manager who thought she knew more about football because she watches Arsenal without actually playing the game! The silly twat!

You are a WUM. You arent articulating anything into this conversation, just here to wind people up. Nice one.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 10, 2020, 07:00:17 PM
Players have strengths and weaknesses. A number 10 role is completely different to being a DM. Completely different skill-sets and mentality.

He played in his preferred advanced role v Newcastle, and he was shite.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 10, 2020, 07:03:29 PM
He was joint top scorer in one season so he can't be that shit. Can you strike a ball the way he does? Of course not.

No offence to Lizz but I highly doubt we’re looking at spending £45m on her to be our midfield lynchpin.

Clearly isn’t ready imo.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jimmywhack on November 10, 2020, 07:04:27 PM
He was joint top scorer in one season so he can't be that shit. Can you strike a ball the way he does? Of course not.
Two years ago
He has barely scored since
Or assisted
The key thing for a no 10, the position you say he is primed for, are goals and assist or at the very least chances created. He does none of that but hey, he presses and in reality, he doesnt even do that that well
I hit a good ball, doesnt make me a fucking good player.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 10, 2020, 07:44:50 PM
*triggered old fella using gender to measure footy knowledge has entered the chat*
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 10, 2020, 08:00:45 PM
Honestly, if you’re still arguing with someone about Sigurdsson after all this time, you’re being as much of a bellend as the troll is. Just fucking ignore him.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 10, 2020, 08:07:37 PM
Hey man how else am I supposed to spend company time? Working?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on November 10, 2020, 09:01:38 PM
I can strike a ball as well as Sig. it easy to lift your corners chest height to be cleared by the first man or to gently chip free kicks in. I can do that too.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 10, 2020, 09:26:53 PM
I don't like these ones as essentially it's highlighting the least shit, but he does have more goals and assists than Iwobi, who lots have been saying should start as he's much more creative. But like I said, neither are good enough, so I'll leave it there.

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Be amazed if he creates and scores more without the set plays which are crap anyway. You surely don’t believe iwobi is a worse player than sigurdsson
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Audrey Horne on November 10, 2020, 09:41:49 PM
No offence to Lizz but I highly doubt we’re looking at spending £45m on her to be our midfield lynchpin.

Clearly isn’t ready imo.

Agree to disagree there Ram!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 10, 2020, 09:51:48 PM
Agree to disagree there Ram!

You can’t be any worse than sigurdsson
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on November 10, 2020, 09:53:58 PM
Be amazed if he creates and scores more without the set plays which are crap anyway. You surely don’t believe iwobi is a worse player than sigurdsson

Depends what you're asking them to do. I think Iwobi has a much higher ceiling, but he seems to be insistent on showing that he has a much lower basement, which is a shame for him.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 10, 2020, 10:06:31 PM
Depends what you're asking them to do. I think Iwobi has a much higher ceiling, but he seems to be insistent on showing that he has a much lower basement, which is a shame for him.

I actually think iwobi seems to be losing marks for getting on the ball and failing while sigurdsson avoids this by hiding from the ball. For me there’s no lower basement than just not doing anything
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on November 10, 2020, 10:13:31 PM
I actually think iwobi seems to be losing marks for getting on the ball and failing while sigurdsson avoids this by hiding from the ball. For me there's no lower basement than just not doing anything
Possible right, isn't that correct though? if you wanted someone that'll miscontrol the ball, kick it to the opposition or get dispossessed 9/10 I'm free and I'll cost a load less, but I'm assuming that's not what we want?

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 10, 2020, 10:35:32 PM
Possible right, isn't that correct though? if you wanted someone that'll miscontrol the ball, kick it to the opposition or get dispossessed 9/10 I'm free and I'll cost a load less, but I'm assuming that's not what we want?

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And I’m available to play the sigurdsson role. Only difference is I can do it from home

Iwobi is infinitely better than sigurdsson
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jamokachi on November 11, 2020, 01:33:25 AM
Fuck me dead, is Gylfi’s old man back?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on November 11, 2020, 08:25:26 AM
There were multiple errors in the lead up to the goal

But all 3 CM's were chasing the ball and all 3 were further to the right than Fernandes when the ball comes in.

Just poor organisation all round. You can argue Sig is the most out of position. But I think it's something that needs to be drilled on in training.

I think the Sig is fine to tell someone else to pick up Fernandes but just pointing and then dashing towards the ball and abandoning your man is not a good way to do so. If he sees a player unmarked he should stay with him or scream at a team mate to pick him up and not leave him until he is sure fernandes has been marked


Also how the fuck do you embed images you upload into your posts?

It was criminal what sig did for that goal, anyone with half a brain and/or a set of balls goes to mark Fernandes, if the ball goes to Matic then your still well placed to engage with him. Its was either braindead or he realised he fucked up and desperately sprinted into a position that would absolve him of blame. As anyone who has played knows, when your running back like that your in a privileged position to read the game because you can see everything, and whether your a striker or a number 10 or a free kick specialist its your job to get in there and stop the other fucking team scoring. Hes a coward and an embarrassment he cant fuck off soon enough
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on November 11, 2020, 01:45:14 PM
Agree to disagree there Ram!

And it's that sort of self belief that all the best players have. You keep doing you, Lizz!

Seriously though, the fuck have I just read over the last 10 pages?

Gylfi is undoubtedly a talented footballer who, for whatever reason, has had a massive decline since joining us.

His skills and abilities are not affecting our games in any positive way, and aside from high-up pressing, seem to be absent altogether.

Either he can't impose himself on the game or won't impose himself on the game. I think the drop off has got steeper since he lost his father. As a human, I feel really bad for the lad. But he was not doing brilliantly before then either.

System, position, tactics, whatever - he's a spare part we've no use for any more. Would rather have literally anyone else in the squad in his position - Iwobi, Gomes, Davies, Gordon, Nkounkou - any of the kids.

Anyway, that Doucoure is ok isn't he? Not great, but an important part of giving us a midfield back again.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on November 11, 2020, 07:08:43 PM
The thing everybody is missing is that Doucouré is closer to Sig’s desired role than the defensive midfielder we want him to be.

He’s doing an admirable job but we’re massively lacking a sitting, space covering DM which will allow Allan and Doucouré the freedom to press that they need.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 11, 2020, 07:26:23 PM
Doucoure is the second best tackler outside the top six

Allan is also right up there in the amount of tackles and interceptions made per game

That suggests to me that both players are doing whats asked of them. It's the fella to the left of them, whether that be Gomes or Sigurdsson that lets them down.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on November 11, 2020, 08:21:45 PM
Doucoure is the second best tackler outside the top six

Allan is also right up there in the amount of tackles and interceptions made per game

That suggests to me that both players are doing whats asked of them. It's the fella to the left of them, whether that be Gomes or Sigurdsson that lets them down.
Allan is the best in the league so far, averages 4.7 tackles per game

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 11, 2020, 08:33:10 PM
Seems that the way we play we’re dependent on that 3rd CM being absolute dynamite on the turn. Unfortunately we have Gylfi and Gomes.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on November 11, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
Seems that the way we play we're dependent on that 3rd CM being absolute dynamite on the turn. Unfortunately we have Gylfi and Gomes.
I think we just need someone that can advance with the ball centrally as well as doing the ugly stuff, we have a lot that are combative in the midfield but we need someone that can create and score, I hoped that was Gomes but looking less and less likely

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 11, 2020, 09:11:55 PM
Doucoure is the second best tackler outside the top six

Allan is also right up there in the amount of tackles and interceptions made per game

That suggests to me that both players are doing whats asked of them. It's the fella to the left of them, whether that be Gomes or Sigurdsson that lets them down.

Allan one of the most aggressive pressers in Europe ATM.

But both doing the headless chicken routine isn't working and we're being bypassed. Relatively fewer interceptions shows this I think... individual duals we can win but combination play we struggle.

Drop them both into a two with specific jobs,  push the backline up 5 yards, out someone ahead who can receive on the half turn.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 12, 2020, 03:06:36 AM
Allan one of the most aggressive pressers in Europe ATM.

But both doing the headless chicken routine isn't working and we're being bypassed. Relatively fewer interceptions shows this I think... individual duals we can win but combination play we struggle.

Drop them both into a two with specific jobs,  push the backline up 5 yards, out someone ahead who can receive on the half turn.

James Rodriguez.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 16, 2020, 03:49:27 AM
I don't like these ones as essentially it's highlighting the least shit, but he does have more goals and assists than Iwobi, who lots have been saying should start as he's much more creative. But like I said, neither are good enough, so I'll leave it there.

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Be amazed if he creates and scores more without the set plays which are crap anyway. You surely don’t believe iwobi is a worse player than sigurdsson

This thread has been a fascinating read the last 5 or so pages.

Anyway, just because I always do, I looked up their output.

All comps, the past 2 years:
Iwobi has 3 goals, 3 assists in 2,242 minutes.
Sigurdsson has 3 goals, 6 assists in 3,279 minutes. 1 of the goals was a pen, and 2 of the assists were corners.

Iwobi doesn't take pens, or corners. Their output is pretty much identical.

Can't use the "played out of position" argument, since they both have, and it could be argued Iwobi moreso. I don't really care what they cost, but if anyone does, we're talking £27m for a 23-year-old vs £45m for a 31-year-old.

I know who I'd take, and he hasn't even been very good. It's Iwobi, btw.

Is this the Doucoure thread, I forgot.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on November 16, 2020, 03:54:32 AM
This thread has been a fascinating read the last 5 or so pages.

Anyway, just because I always do, I looked up their output.

All comps, the past 2 years:
Iwobi has 3 goals, 3 assists in 2,242 minutes.
Sigurdsson has 3 goals, 6 assists in 3,279 minutes. 1 of the goals was a pen, and 2 of the assists were corners.

Iwobi doesn't take pens, or corners. Their output is pretty much identical.

Can't use the "played out of position" argument, since they both have, and it could be argued Iwobi moreso. I don't really care what they cost, but if anyone does, we're talking £27m for a 23-year-old vs £45m for a 31-year-old.

I know who I'd take, and he hasn't even been very good. It's Iwobi, btw.

Is this the Doucoure thread, I forgot.
Fuck me, Sig was 31 when we bought him, never knew that......

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 16, 2020, 04:06:53 AM
Fuck me, Sig was 31 when we bought him, never knew that......

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Funny guy.

Ok, 22 y.o. Iwobi vs 27 y.o. Sigurdsson. Everything else I pointed out is entirely accurate.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: KoemansNumberTens on November 16, 2020, 06:02:05 AM
This thread has been a fascinating read the last 5 or so pages.

Anyway, just because I always do, I looked up their output.

All comps, the past 2 years:
Iwobi has 3 goals, 3 assists in 2,242 minutes.
Sigurdsson has 3 goals, 6 assists in 3,279 minutes. 1 of the goals was a pen, and 2 of the assists were corners.

Iwobi doesn't take pens, or corners. Their output is pretty much identical.

Can't use the "played out of position" argument, since they both have, and it could be argued Iwobi moreso. I don't really care what they cost, but if anyone does, we're talking £27m for a 23-year-old vs £45m for a 31-year-old.

I know who I'd take, and he hasn't even been very good. It's Iwobi, btw.

Is this the Doucoure thread, I forgot.

Think me point would be that sigurdsson simply isn’t capable of having games as good as iwobi had against Brighton and Utd (and they weren’t even that good)
Even at his best he’d be as good as he is now but with a some moments of magic. He isn’t capable of even a good all round performance. Least iwobi has good days. Not enough of them but least he has some
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: tipping1! on November 16, 2020, 04:05:36 PM
I rated him very highly at Watford. He has been consistent for us during the start of the season. He is exactly what we need that, someone strong and powerful.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 23, 2020, 03:33:32 AM
Let's face it, Decoure is a defensive liability at the moment:

He failed to track his player Bobby Decordova-Reid for the first goal.

Failed to track his player Loftus-Cheek who a split second later won a penalty.

Failed to close down Loftus-Cheek quickly enough for Fulham's goal.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 23, 2020, 03:44:13 AM
Had a good game today I thought.

Off the ball got through tons of work and when he did make a run forward he finished a great move.

Both him and Allan struggling to get the ball forward though. Could do with James in front of them definitely.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 23, 2020, 04:26:10 AM
Thought he was great myself.

Think he and Allan are being asked to do too much so at times they can struggle to impact the game but they can also have periods where they dominate.

He ran the show in the last 20 minutes of the first half and that won us the game really.

Constant energy and is starting to become more of a threat in the final third. The player we’ve been missing in the middle of the park for years.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 23, 2020, 04:31:37 AM
Let's face it, Decoure is a defensive liability at the moment:

He failed to track his player Bobby Decordova-Reid for the first goal.

Failed to track his player Loftus-Cheek who a split second later won a penalty.

Failed to close down Loftus-Cheek quickly enough for Fulham's goal.

Made three tackles and six interceptions. Nobody else come close to that.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: penguinofdoom1878 on November 23, 2020, 04:58:03 AM
Made three tackles and six interceptions. Nobody else come close to that.

I was surprised to see James make the most tackles (4) in the game
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 23, 2020, 05:09:25 AM
Thought he was great myself.

Think he and Allan are being asked to do too much so at times they can struggle to impact the game but they can also have periods where they dominate.

He ran the show in the last 20 minutes of the first half and that won us the game really.

Constant energy and is starting to become more of a threat in the final third. The player we’ve been missing in the middle of the park for years.

Yeah I think Allan was good too...but in a game where both your CMS play well shouldn't have looked like that should it?

They're both being asked to put in lots and lots of work off the ball, which I guess means the team and set up as a whole is giving them a lot of work to do. bit similar to how Gueyes defensive numbers under Silva were testimony to his good Gueye was and also how dreadful Silva was.

He's clearly still finding what he wants from this side and I think the idea of a number 6 to fit in behind them might become this year's version of the 433 or the Billy in the Cahill role formational fantasy we never actually see.

Plus neither have the best forward passing, breaking lines etc. So putting another defensive player won't help that.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 23, 2020, 05:15:07 AM
Made three tackles and six interceptions. Nobody else come close to that.

Stats without quoting its source equals meaningless.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 23, 2020, 05:23:14 AM
Stats without quoting its source equals meaningless.

Whoscored.com is where I got those stats from but it imagine they’re on any reputable website.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 23, 2020, 05:26:02 AM
Not hard to verify. Whoscored and/or the Stats Zone app update in real time. Whoscored is pretty widely used. Stats Zone goes into significantly more detail, however.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 23, 2020, 05:27:58 AM
https://twitter.com/FIVE__YARDS/status/1330511016938057731?s=19
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 23, 2020, 05:33:24 AM
Yeah I think Allan was good too...but in a game where both your CMS play well shouldn't have looked like that should it?

They're both being asked to put in lots and lots of work off the ball, which I guess means the team and set up as a whole is giving them a lot of work to do. bit similar to how Gueyes defensive numbers under Silva were testimony to his good Gueye was and also how dreadful Silva was.

He's clearly still finding what he wants from this side and I think the idea of a number 6 to fit in behind them might become this year's version of the 433 or the Billy in the Cahill role formational fantasy we never actually see.

Plus neither have the best forward passing, breaking lines etc. So putting another defensive player won't help that.

Yeah, none of us really know the answer to it.

My thinking of putting somebody behind them is giving Doucoure more freedom going forward and lessoning the burden on him and Allan off the ball.

We’re scoring and conceding a lot of goals so I think we can afford to lose a bit going forward.

Just having somebody to track midfield runners will make the world of difference to that midfield.

It’s all a work in progress right now though. He had a base level of zero to work from in trying to get that midfield to function, and it’s telling that just ten games into the season all of our centre mids from the last two seasons are benched.

Doucoure and Allan have made a massive difference, but it’s still the start of the process and there’s a lot of work to be done to get it working at a level that has us dominating games consistently.

Today wasn’t good to watch in parts and you imagine Leeds next week will exploit the massive gaps we always seem to have so it’ll be interesting to see how Carlo counters that.

Think at the moment he realises the issue but knows we don’t have the personnel to address it so we’re just going toe to toe with teams knowing we have the quality up top to win games when we’re not playing great. Only so long you can keep playing like that for before it catches up with you.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 23, 2020, 05:46:28 AM
Whoscored.com is where I got those stats from but it imagine they’re on any reputable website.

Thanks.

Made three tackles and six interceptions. Nobody else come close to that.

I thought Fulham had made some sloppy passes today where some of them ended up with Doucoure not having to move. Not exactly my definition of an interception.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 23, 2020, 05:47:59 AM
Yeah, none of us really know the answer to it.

My thinking of putting somebody behind them is giving Doucoure more freedom going forward and lessoning the burden on him and Allan off the ball.

We’re scoring and conceding a lot of goals so I think we can afford to lose a bit going forward.

Just having somebody to track midfield runners will make the world of difference to that midfield.

It’s all a work in progress right now though. He had a base level of zero to work from in trying to get that midfield to function, and it’s telling that just ten games into the season all of our centre mids from the last two seasons are benched.

Doucoure and Allan have made a massive difference, but it’s still the start of the process and there’s a lot of work to be done to get it working at a level that has us dominating games consistently.

Today wasn’t good to watch in parts and you imagine Leeds next week will exploit the massive gaps we always seem to have so it’ll be interesting to see how Carlo counters that.

Think at the moment he realises the issue but knows we don’t have the personnel to address it so we’re just going toe to toe with teams knowing we have the quality up top to win games when we’re not playing great. Only so long you can keep playing like that for before it catches up with you.


I’d use Godfrey as a CB libero/DM, between central defence and midfield.

Good passer, and quick, so could do a good job.

Noticed that when we did our best work in the fast half we looked like this going forward:

                  Doucouré Allan   
             Iwobi    James   Digne
                   DCL Richarlison
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 23, 2020, 03:23:51 PM
Yeah, none of us really know the answer to it.

My thinking of putting somebody behind them is giving Doucoure more freedom going forward and lessoning the burden on him and Allan off the ball.

We’re scoring and conceding a lot of goals so I think we can afford to lose a bit going forward.

Just having somebody to track midfield runners will make the world of difference to that midfield.

It’s all a work in progress right now though. He had a base level of zero to work from in trying to get that midfield to function, and it’s telling that just ten games into the season all of our centre mids from the last two seasons are benched.

Doucoure and Allan have made a massive difference, but it’s still the start of the process and there’s a lot of work to be done to get it working at a level that has us dominating games consistently.

Today wasn’t good to watch in parts and you imagine Leeds next week will exploit the massive gaps we always seem to have so it’ll be interesting to see how Carlo counters that.

Think at the moment he realises the issue but knows we don’t have the personnel to address it so we’re just going toe to toe with teams knowing we have the quality up top to win games when we’re not playing great. Only so long you can keep playing like that for before it catches up with you.


Can see the logic but I've not seen anything from Godfrey I've liked so far other than the fact he's a good athlete. Not looking a great buy ATM I don't think.

Deffo up for seeing him in the 6 but much more up for us finding a good 6 and buying them. I would be shocked if the lad is a prem level holding midfielder just waiting to be discovered.

Good in fits and starts particularly going forward, chaos at the back and mismatched in midfield. Carlos Everton so far really.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kerryblue boy on November 23, 2020, 03:26:39 PM
It’s going to be really hard for Allan and doucoure to dominate when they are completely outnumbered I would bring back Coleman against Leeds and play iwobi in a midfield 3 let him play the box to box role also holgate should come in for Mina
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on November 23, 2020, 03:38:45 PM
When you've had lots of midfielders who have very obvious deficiencies that need to be accommodated for you really appreciate a guy that can do most things at 7 out of 10 and is just functional in most circumstances on a pitch.

Echo other peoples thoughts that a holding DM is very much needed
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: velimski on November 23, 2020, 03:47:34 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but was Allan not bought to play the defensive midfield role?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on November 23, 2020, 03:55:58 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but was Allan not bought to play the defensive midfield role?
That was exactly the widely publicised intention.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dazfrancis on November 23, 2020, 03:56:30 PM
He was, but there is growing evidence he is not disciplined enough to be the anchor in midfield
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 23, 2020, 04:01:11 PM
He was, but there is growing evidence he is not disciplined enough to be the anchor in midfield

Yeah, which I find a bit odd, because you would’ve thought Ancelotti knew this from managing him at Napoli.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on November 23, 2020, 04:08:45 PM
Yeah, which I find a bit odd, because you would’ve thought Ancelotti knew this from managing him at Napoli.

I still think that Ancelotti knows a hell of a lot more about this player than any of us on here do.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 23, 2020, 04:12:22 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but was Allan not bought to play the defensive midfield role?

https://www.football-italia.net/158201/napoli-wont-miss-evertons-allan

This is a decent article about his time at Napoli.

Seems like he's always struggled as the DM and his best stuff comes when he's allowed to play further forward.

I dont think anyone at the club said he was going to be our DM, might just be something we all assumed.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on November 23, 2020, 04:27:50 PM
The problem with having a holding DM and Allan/Doucouré completing the three is that it means James on the right which we’ve seen leaves us huge problems defensively.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 23, 2020, 04:30:37 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but was Allan not bought to play the defensive midfield role?

Similar to Gueye, who is a great defensive midfielder but we never played him on his own as a screen because he wants to run around and tackle people.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 23, 2020, 05:30:17 PM
I still think that Ancelotti knows a hell of a lot more about this player than any of us on here do.

Yeah, you’re right. No point in questioning or discussing anything, is there.
We might as well shut the forum, eh.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Sir Stealth on November 23, 2020, 05:31:12 PM
Allans strength seems to be in winning the ball back, as Brap says similar to Gueye

Best moment from him yesterday was when he tracked back and won the ball as they were attacking down the right flank, does that thing where he gets his body in front of the ball and his body strength means he's either taking it off you and moving off in the attacking direction, or he's winning a free kick from you


My questions would be whether we could get JPG when he's fit (hopefully soon) behind him to predominantly sit and protect the defence and also to do some of his trademark long range passing

Allan I think is actually very good in possession as well

Still not 100% on what Doucoure or Gomes actually do if I'm being honest, although Doucoure does seem more consistent and less likely to have those Gomes spells where he can't do anything right
 
Nice for Doucoure to score yesterday but I can't see that being a regular occurrence, might still be feeling his way into the side but I do think he's a bit average overall

As the team is right now, defence have obviously been pants but I don't think we've quite fixed the midfield problem. Intrigued as to what Gbamin can bring if he does get back

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on November 23, 2020, 05:53:40 PM
Yeah, you’re right. No point in questioning or discussing anything, is there.
We might as well shut the forum, eh.
Which part of that sentence isn’t true ?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: velimski on November 23, 2020, 06:21:46 PM
If we've played the season so far without a defensive screen it makes me wonder why we haven't tried Holgate or Godfrey there yet.

Also becoming more apparent that we didn't address that position over the summer.

JPG was always going to take months before being ready if it all.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 23, 2020, 06:40:16 PM
Which part of that sentence isn’t true ?

I’ll reframe it for you, then.

The government surely know more about governing and politics than you.

So, don’t question them.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on November 23, 2020, 07:03:25 PM
I’ll reframe it for you, then.

The government surely know more about governing and politics than you.

So, don’t question them.
Oh, I get it now, you’re questioning Carlos ability just like we question the governments ability, let’s leave it there then.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 23, 2020, 07:07:23 PM
I’ll reframe it for you, then.

The government surely know more about governing and politics than you.

So, don’t question them.

Yeah that's the same thing lol. Terrible analogy Sam. Government has zero interest in creating something that's the best for everyone. They should be questioned.

Besides, that isn't what Escla said. It would be foolish to think Carlo doesn't know more about his players. He does, full stop. I don't think Escla suggested no one question how they're being used though.

So to put things back in context, of course Carlo knows Allan is best as a roving destroyer. Just like he knows we still don't have a (fit) DM, so Allan is it by default. Cross your fingers about Gbamin.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 23, 2020, 07:17:50 PM
Oh, I get it now, you’re questioning Carlos ability just like we question the governments ability, let’s leave it there then.

I’m not questioning his ability.

I’m questioning why we’ve signed two energetic CM’s, neither of whom like to sit.

It just feels a bit like a mild, CM version of Koeman’s number 10’s.

I like both Allan and Doucouré individually, but, currently, they don’t work together without someone mopping up and screening behind them.

I like the idea of 3 at the back, but with either Godfrey, Holgate, or Gbamin as a hybrid sweeper/libero/DM, mopping up, bringing it out, spraying it.

I dunno, obviously I know fuck all, but I really liked parts of what I saw yesterday, and I feel it could really work with adjustments, and allowing it to bed in, of course.

I just think it’s really reductive when anyone questions something on here, that someone else chimes in with “who are you question Ancelotti?”

I really, really like him, but he’s not beyond questioning; I mean, he’s changed our formation throughout our last five games, so surely he’s questioning himself, right?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 23, 2020, 07:19:23 PM
Yeah that's the same thing lol. Terrible analogy Sam. Government has zero interest in creating something that's the best for everyone. They should be questioned.

Besides, that isn't what Escla said. It would be foolish to think Carlo doesn't know more about his players. He does, full stop. I don't think Escla suggested no one question how they're being used though.

So to put things back in context, of course Carlo knows Allan is best as a roving destroyer. Just like he knows we still don't have a (fit) DM, so Allan is it by default. Cross your fingers about Gbamin.

Read what I wrote above.

If he was putting his hopes on Gbamin, then he’s insane.

And he’s definitely not insane.

Plus, I was clearly being flippant with the government analogy; I thought you recognised nuance and irony.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 23, 2020, 07:45:11 PM
Read what I wrote above.

If he was putting his hopes on Gbamin, then he’s insane.

And he’s definitely not insane.

Plus, I was clearly being flippant with the government analogy; I thought you recognised nuance and irony.

Honestly I don't even know what to think given a lot of what I've read the past 2 weeks. Meaning, all over, not just NSNO. So I've been taking everything at face value.

All I know is that we're clearly a work-in-progress, one hampered by a substantial lack of depth when just a single piece is missing (Coleman or Richarlison etc). Makes it really challenging to find something that works and simply stick with it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 23, 2020, 07:57:02 PM
Honestly I don't even know what to think given a lot of what I've read the past 2 weeks. Meaning, all over, not just NSNO. So I've been taking everything at face value.

All I know is that we're clearly a work-in-progress, one hampered by a substantial lack of depth when just a single piece is missing (Coleman or Richarlison etc). Makes it really challenging to find something that works and simply stick with it.

Read less, then, particularly when it comes to supporter opinion shit. It will make you happier. Oh, and never read the comments on Twitter regarding anything vaguely close to your heart, particularly if it could be contentious.

Regarding the missing pieces thing, the main, glaring missing piece is a DM.

That’s why a few of us are suggesting Godfrey and Holgate, and me specifically with my fanciful sweeper hybrid thingy.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on November 23, 2020, 07:59:16 PM
Tell you what an interesting exercise is.

Having a look at the midfield and everything we know about it so far, and how the options we have on the bench are two enigmatic and unreliable tidy but ineffective playmakers, while the problems lie predominantly elsewhere...

Then asking yourslf - what questions does Isco solve?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 23, 2020, 08:01:18 PM
Right back obvy.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 23, 2020, 08:48:17 PM
The problem with having a holding DM and Allan/Doucouré completing the three is that it means James on the right which we’ve seen leaves us huge problems defensively.

It shouldn't be a problem if Doucoure offered better covering.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 23, 2020, 09:10:51 PM
Right back obvy.

Not now Iwobi has emerged as the Nigerian Cafu, it isn’t.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 02:57:30 AM
Not hard to verify. Whoscored and/or the Stats Zone app update in real time. Whoscored is pretty widely used. Stats Zone goes into significantly more detail, however.

Sorry, I'm not going spend all day looking to verify stats, thank you very much.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 24, 2020, 04:20:09 AM
Maybe Ancelotti looked at the team and felt it was more important to address the mentality than the DM issue... In his expert understanding of the game it's possible he decided fixing the mentality issue with certain would gain us more points over the course of the season.

* No idea if that's the case but it's feasible.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 24, 2020, 04:25:27 AM
Doucouré V Fulham Away:

91% pass accuracy
85 touches (the most)
11 ball recoveries
3 tackles completed
6 interceptions
2 clearances
0 fouls committed
1 goal scored
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on November 24, 2020, 04:47:19 AM
Doucouré V Fulham Away:

91% pass accuracy
85 touches (the most)
11 ball recoveries
3 tackles completed
6 interceptions
2 clearances
0 fouls committed
1 goal scored
Impressive.

But what's a ball recovery if it's not an interception or a tackle?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 04:58:46 AM
Impressive.

But what's a ball recovery if it's not an interception or a tackle?

What the stats doesn't tell you is the defensive lapses from Doucoure in the Fulham game that almost cost us two points.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 24, 2020, 05:12:02 AM
What the stats doesn't tell you is the defensive lapses from Doucoure in the Fulham game that almost cost us two points.

Or Rodriguez’ misplaced pass which led to the penalty.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 05:23:50 AM
Or Rodriguez’ misplaced pass which led to the penalty.

Oh come on, it did not lead directly to a penalty.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 24, 2020, 05:25:23 AM
Oh come on, it did not lead directly to a penalty.

Mate, he gave the ball away - two passes later a penalty is conceded.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 05:35:55 AM
Mate, he gave the ball away - two passes later a penalty is conceded.

Still enough time to prevent a penalty though. Doucoure had a hand in nearly half the goals conceded from the last five games.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 24, 2020, 05:37:05 AM
Still enough time to prevent a penalty though. Doucoure had a hand in nearly half the goals conceded from the last five games.



Ok sweetheart.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 24, 2020, 06:23:09 AM
Sorry, I'm not going spend all day looking to verify stats, thank you very much.

Then don't sit here questioning those who spent the whole 3 minutes to look them up.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Dr. Sponge on November 24, 2020, 07:42:04 AM
Undisputed_helmet
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on November 24, 2020, 01:21:19 PM
Sorry, I'm not going spend all day looking to verify stats, thank you very much.

So it doesn't matter if we quote sources or not then. If you're not going to check, like...

I see Doucoure was fastest on the pitch again with 2 sprints recorded at over 90mph
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 24, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
If we've played the season so far without a defensive screen it makes me wonder why we haven't tried Holgate or Godfrey there yet.

Also becoming more apparent that we didn't address that position over the summer.

JPG was always going to take months before being ready if it all.
I think a lot of Sunday’s formation was about finding a solution for Coleman being missing, and not having a like-for-like replacement. I personally don’t think it needed ripping up to the extent it did and would rather he tweaked the 433. I’ve been advocating Godfrey being in there as the screen for a while. He’s played 40 odd games there, albeit not at this level. I think it gives us protection and unburdens Allen and Doucoure somewhat. I also see James being fine on the right, if the midfield has Godfrey for protection so Doucoure can drift over and protect that space. That’s how it should work in a genuine 433.

We won the game and Iwobi looked bright at RWB but I can imagine him having a mare against Leeds as they’ll run at him and and have runners in behind, all game. Do we change the formation again then?


Sent from my iPhone using NSNO Everton Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Jamokachi on November 24, 2020, 02:10:54 PM
Doucouré V Fulham Away:

91% pass accuracy
85 touches (the most)
11 ball recoveries
3 tackles completed
6 interceptions
2 clearances
0 fouls committed
1 goal scored

I hope you spent "all day verifying those stats"?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on November 24, 2020, 03:27:32 PM
Decoreee has been decent enough so far, will only get better
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Escla on November 24, 2020, 03:30:09 PM
Decoreee has been decent enough so far, will only get better
I’m reserving judgement on all of the new players until after Christmas when everyone should be bedded in.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 24, 2020, 03:42:43 PM
I hope you spent "all day verifying those stats"?

23hrs 55mins, actually, and then I spent the next 5 minutes knocking one out.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: markB on November 24, 2020, 03:59:25 PM
23hrs 55mins, actually, and then I spent the next 5 minutes knocking one out.

you get you zip stuck again ?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 24, 2020, 04:02:03 PM
you get you zip stuck again ?

Ugh, that reminded me of my dad telling me he got his wang caught in his zip once, lost loads of blood, ended up in hospital.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gary1878 on November 24, 2020, 05:09:31 PM
I think he has had a good start but he needs competition to take his game to the next level. Gbamin would be that ideal player to give him some extra incentive but no one is sure what kind of player will come back from his terrible injury record.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Free Agent on November 24, 2020, 05:15:05 PM
Ugh, that reminded me of my dad telling me he got his wang caught in his zip once, lost loads of blood, ended up in hospital.

That sounds like something Gbamin might do
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: GrantyBoy78 on November 24, 2020, 05:29:39 PM
I think he has had a good start but he needs competition to take his game to the next level. Gbamin would be that ideal player to give him some extra incentive but no one is sure what kind of player will come back from his terrible injury record.
If/when fit, he’ll be playing alongside him, not challenging for his place.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on November 24, 2020, 05:38:23 PM
I think Doucoure is doing ok for us at the moment. There are still times we appear to be very imbalanced, and on those occasions, he and Allan are being dragged all over the shop and so it is harder for them to have a good game.

If we can get that next midfielder in that completes the 3 and compliments the other 2's qualities and suits the way we want to play - I think we'll see a world of difference.

Some people are holding out for Gbamin to be that player, myself included, but based on the severity of his injury I don't think we can rely on that being the case and would hope that we can ruin another transfer window in January.

If we had someone as industrious as Allan and Doucoure on the left, so those two can stay in their own areas, then I think it could make a huge difference because not only would it balance us in the middle, but it would connect defence and attack properly and we could play much more coherent football.

If we get someone to sit and screen behind those two and push them further up the pitch though, that's what I think we'd find really exciting. I understand the shouts for Holgate and Godfrey in this role because they are what we currently have, but I don't think either of those are ready to be that player yet. Maybe in a few years, but not today. So I wouldn't be adverse to chucking money at someone 27+ if we had to, despite the Marcel-meltdown that usually generates.

Bottom line, I genuinely feel we are only 1 key midfielder away from what we need. Compare that to the end of last season.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 05:41:16 PM
Then don't sit here questioning those who spent the whole 3 minutes to look them up.

If I don't question it then I just ignore it. Quite simple really.

Outside the arena of NSNO, it's common practice to quote the source of stats.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 05:45:53 PM
So it doesn't matter if we quote sources or not then. If you're not going to check, like...

I see Doucoure was fastest on the pitch again with 2 sprints recorded at over 90mph

So what? How does that excuse him from his errors leading to goals and a penalty?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 24, 2020, 05:53:50 PM
This fella losing his head again.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 24, 2020, 06:00:40 PM
This is exactly why we've passed laws these days requiring children under the age of 13 to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 06:04:06 PM
This fella losing his head again.

How can I lose my head if I can give specific examples of Doucoure's poor play which has resulted in nearly half of Everton's conceded goals in the past 5 games?

There's a difference in understanding a game of football than jumping on bandwagons on a football forum. Clearly you are in the latter.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 24, 2020, 06:09:13 PM
Head gone on every thread i see this fella on.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 24, 2020, 06:11:36 PM
Obviously Sigurdsson should take his place in the starting XI. Now that guy understands the game of football.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 06:23:33 PM
Obviously Sigurdsson should take his place in the starting XI. Now that guy understands the game of football.

I guess you didn't understand my point earlier on that Sigurdsson isn't a central midfielder. He hasn't got an ounce of defensive instincts in him.

Moving on, I can tell, by reading through the lines, that you've never played a competitive game of football.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 24, 2020, 06:29:19 PM
What was the error that lead to the pen?

Also, blaming him for half our goals over the last five games is a bit much isn’t it?

Can we have examples of each goal he has cost us please?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 24, 2020, 06:31:14 PM
I will have you know that in 9th grade, the match I played against Indian Hills regional high school was very competitive.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 06:31:30 PM
What was the error that lead to the pen?

Also, blaming him for half our goals over the last five games is a bit much isn’t it?

Can we have examples of each goal he has cost us please?

I given examples in my previous posts.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 24, 2020, 06:35:24 PM
I given examples in my previous posts.

I’ll take your word for that.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 06:40:20 PM
I will have you know that in 9th grade, the match I played against Indian Hills regional high school was very competitive.

I played for my school. However, there was a world of difference when I played for my local side featuring an ex pro, semi pros and a former Chelsea youth player. You learn a lot just by playing along side them.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Gash on November 24, 2020, 06:54:48 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3Iqc656lCuzzG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 24, 2020, 06:56:16 PM
Lol, we've all played with lads that played at the lower levels of the game.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 06:57:39 PM
Lol, we've all played with lads that played at the lower levels of the game.

The ex-pro made his debut against Liverpool in the premiership.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 24, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
The ex-pro made his debut against Liverpool in the premiership.

Unless it was you nobody is arsed mate.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 07:03:29 PM
Unless it was you nobody is arsed mate.

Nah, never was going to make it professionally due to lack of pace. However, my strong point was reading the game. Hence why I'm able to see things on the pitch while many of you just watch in glee. Swoosh!

ETA: Anyone, I'm going out cycling without an helmet again.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 24, 2020, 07:15:02 PM
Nah, never was going to make it professionally due to lack of pace. However, my strong point was reading the game. Hence why I'm able to see things on the pitch while many of you just watch in glee. Swoosh!

ETA: Anyone, I'm going out cycling without an helmet again.

Hahahahaha haha that’s a proper bellend comment there.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 24, 2020, 07:16:02 PM

ETA: Anyone, I'm going out cycling without an helmet again.

That ship has sailed, I'm afraid.

Also ETA means estimated time of arrival so no idea what you meant by that but let us know when you get wherever you're going.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on November 24, 2020, 07:22:03 PM
Nah, never was going to make it professionally due to lack of pace. However, my strong point was reading the game. Hence why I'm able to see things on the pitch while many of you just watch in glee. Swoosh!

ETA: Anyone, I'm going out cycling without an helmet again.
We've got a few good 'readers' of the game in our team, generally quite tubby that stand in the middle pointing where others need to go as they don't have the pace, you similar to that?

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 07:23:59 PM
That ship has sailed, I'm afraid.

Also ETA means estimated time of arrival so no idea what you meant by that but let us know when you get wherever you're going.

Haha, ETA means edit to add. The acronym is on many acronym dictionaries. Only takes a minute to look it up.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 24, 2020, 07:26:53 PM
We've got a few good 'readers' of the game in our team, generally quite tubby that stand in the middle pointing where others need to go as they don't have the pace, you similar to that?

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Never been tubby. I was a great tackler thriving on adversity. Anyway, I'm really got to go.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on November 24, 2020, 07:38:09 PM
Haha, ETA means edit to add. The acronym is on many acronym dictionaries. Only takes a minute to look it up.

Wow. Never heard it used for anything other than Estimated Time of Arrival so I guess every day is a school day and an opportunity to learn.

With that spirit in mind, perhaps you'd consider the same when I say that I find you to be extremely binary in your opinions. Whilst it is great that you have strong beliefs and I'm not knocking you for them - it does not make for a great discussion if you hit everyone with the "I'm Right - You're Wrong" hammer, every time they speak.

If this is coming across as super-patronising - mission accomplished.

I can't help but wonder if someone with the name "undisputed" is in the right place to dispute the finer intricacies of the beautiful game, however many better men you have shared a pitch with. It does speak of a rather unchangeable mindset to begin with.

Perhaps come back as "Open-Minded_Blue"?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on November 24, 2020, 07:43:08 PM
Wow. Never heard it used for anything other than Estimated Time of Arrival so I guess every day is a school day and an opportunity to learn.


Neither had I, although I thought he was talking about the European Tugowners' Association, some of the below dont even make sense to me!:
 
ETA   Estimated Time of Arrival (also seen as ETOA)
ETA   Employment and Training Administration (US Department of Labor)
ETA   Electronic Travel Authority
ETA   Electronic Transactions Association
ETA   Elvis Tribute Artist
ETA   Estação de Tratamento de Água (Portuguese: Water Treatment Plant)
ETA   Exploring the Arts (est. 1999)
ETA   Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (Basque Homeland and Liberty; terrorist group in Spain)
ETA   Ethanolamine (organic chemical compound)
ETA   Electronics Technicians Association (Greencastle, IN)
ETA   European Technical Approval
ETA   Environmental Transport Association (UK)
ETA   Edited to Add
ETA   Educational Theater Association (Ohio)
ETA   English Teaching Assistantship (US State Department)
ETA   English Teachers Association
ETA   Early Termination Fee (contracts)
ETA   Exfoliative Toxin A (microbiology)
ETA   Extremely Thin Absorber
ETA   Environmental Transport Association
ETA   Electronic Transactions Act
ETA   Enfield Tennis Academy (fictional school; Infinite Jest)
ETA   Electronic Transfer Account
ETA   Expected Time of Arrival
ETA   Electronic Tax Administration
ETA   Extract, Transform, Load
ETA   Event Tree Analysis
ETA   Ethiopian Teachers' Association (Education International)
ETA   European Thyroid Association
ETA   Equal Treatment Act (various nations)
ETA   Enterprise Technical Architecture (various organizations)
ETA   Eicosatetraenoic Acid (biochemistry)
ETA   Egyptian Tourist Authority
ETA   Evangelical Training Association
ETA   Eu Te Amo (Portuguese: I Love You)
ETA   Electronic Travel Aid
ETA   Environmental Technical Assistance (various organizations)
ETA   Efficiency, Transparency and Accountability (US DOI Bureau of Reclamation)
ETA   Environmental Test Article (US NASA)
ETA   Effective Tax Administration
ETA   Electronic Transportation Acquisition
ETA   Expected Time of Accomplishment
ETA   Embroidery Trade Association
ETA   Executive Travel Associates
ETA   Entertainment Technology Alliance
ETA   Energy Tax Act
ETA   Extension Travel Adjustment (Marzocchi bicycle forks)
ETA   Exact Time of Arrival
ETA   Elegance, Technology Accuracy (Swiss manufacturer)
ETA   Expected Turn Around
ETA   Estimated Transmitting Ability (cow breeding)
ETA   Explosive Transfer Assembly
ETA   Estaciones de Tiempo Automatizadas (Spanish: Automated Weather Stations)
ETA   Elektrotechnische Apparate GmbH (Nuremburg, Germany)
ETA   European Tugowners' Association
ETA   Experience the Adventure
ETA   Evangelische Theologische Academie (Dutch: Evangelical Theological Academy; Netherlands)
ETA   Eesti Teadeteagentuur (Estonian News Agency)
ETA   Embedded Transport Acceleration (Intel)
ETA   Experimental Test Accelerator
ETA   Energy Technology Assessment
ETA   Esteem Team Association (Canada)
ETA   Event Tracking Agent
ETA   Elgin Teachers Association
ETA   External Tank Attachment
ETA   Engineering Technologies Associates
ETA   Emergency Tire Assistance
ETA   Eternal Allegiance (fan site)
ETA   Extraterrestrial Activity
ETA   Engineering Technologies Academy
ETA   Eelam Tamil Association (Sydney, Australia)
ETA   Emergency Towing Arrangement (requirement at forward & aft ends of oil tanker)
ETA   Electronic Test Automation
ETA   E-Sektionens Teletekniska Avdelning
ETA   Estimated Time Available
ETA   Etnoteam Adriatica
ETA   Extraterrestrial Artifact
ETA   Emergency Transport Attendant
ETA   Electronic Target Acquisition (also sometimes abbreviated as E/TA)
ETA   Engineering Test Article
ETA   Eastern Training Area
ETA   Enterprise Transaction Archive
ETA   Ellenville Teachers Association
ETA   Erosion Transport Accumulation
ETA   Exception Time Accounting
ETA   Estimated Time for Accomplishment
ETA   Engineering Task Assignment
ETA   Electro-Thermal Atomizer
ETA   Emirate Trading Agency (Dubai, United Arab Emirates)
ETA   Earthville Travel Adventures
ETA   Engineering Technical Assistant
ETA   Evan Terry Associates, PC (Birmingham, AL)
ETA   European Tropospheric-Scatter Army (communications system)
ETA   External Tank Attack
ETA   Electronics Test Area
ETA   Enterprise Transaction Analysis
ETA   EOOW Training Assistant
ETA   Estimated Time Allocation (project management)
ETA   Extra Terrestrial Alien
ETA   Essential Tactical Advantage (Oxford, MI)
ETA   Executive Trade Associates
ETA   Educational Therapy Assistant
ETA   Easy Tech Answers (Lansing, MI)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 24, 2020, 07:50:06 PM
I think he was trying to organise a meet up with a Spanish terrorist organisation but got his forums mixed up.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 24, 2020, 08:31:32 PM
My dog goes to the same vets as Brands’ dog. Which is why I also run rings around you dopey pricks when it comes to the analytical aspect of reading the game.

 
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: VBlue on November 24, 2020, 08:37:42 PM
Doucouré V Fulham Away:

91% pass accuracy
85 touches (the most)
11 ball recoveries
3 tackles completed
6 interceptions
2 clearances
0 fouls committed
1 goal scored

It seemed to me to be his best performance since signing.

I’ve been wondering where he fits in over 90 mins and he just seemed to make a much better contribution.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 24, 2020, 08:43:55 PM
Haha, ETA means edit to add. The acronym is on many acronym dictionaries. Only takes a minute to look it up.

I'm not going to spend all day deciphering your lesser-used acronyms.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 24, 2020, 08:54:28 PM
btw, you should bookmark fbref.com to add to your second-to-none knowledge of the game.

More statistical detail than you'll know what to do with. And with 24 hours' worth of patience, a thorough - and I mean thorough - statistical analysis of every single result.

Yesterday:
https://fbref.com/en/matches/13524225/Fulham-Everton-November-22-2020-Premier-League

You can see how tremendous Doucoure was.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on November 24, 2020, 09:29:58 PM
What is happening here?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on November 24, 2020, 09:38:26 PM
btw, you should bookmark fbref.com to add to your second-to-none knowledge of the game.

More statistical detail than you'll know what to do with. And with 24 hours' worth of patience, a thorough - and I mean thorough - statistical analysis of every single result.

Yesterday:
https://fbref.com/en/matches/13524225/Fulham-Everton-November-22-2020-Premier-League

You can see how tremendous Doucoure was.

Fucking hell. He was everywhere.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 24, 2020, 09:52:48 PM
What is happening here?

Undisputed Blue has got sand in his vagina because Sigurdsson was dropped, we played better without him, won the game, and he looked poo when he came on.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Waltzer on November 24, 2020, 10:05:16 PM
Undisputed Blue has got sand in his vagina because Sigurdsson was dropped, we played better without him, won the game, and he looked poo when he came on.
I'm glad I'm not the only one with that issue!!!

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 24, 2020, 10:05:56 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one with that issue!!!

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 :hug:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 24, 2020, 10:48:40 PM
Undisputed Blue has got sand in his vagina because Sigurdsson was dropped, we played better without him, won the game, and he looked poo when he came on.

Yeah but he scored 9 open-play goals 2 years ago.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Old England Toffee on November 24, 2020, 11:56:40 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one with that issue!!!

Sent from my CPH2025 using NSNO Everton Forums mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)

Hard to be an everton fan without getting a bit of sand up there
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 25, 2020, 12:11:11 AM
Yeah but he scored 9 open-play goals 2 years ago.

As a second striker, who hid a lot.

Mediocre ;)
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Confucius on November 25, 2020, 12:28:25 AM
I played against Stevie P back when we were under 10’s. That’s why I know more than any of you about football.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Simon Paul on November 25, 2020, 12:36:21 AM
I played against Stevie P back when we were under 10's. That's why I know more than any of you about football.
He managed me in my only Everton appearance aged 41,so there!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 25, 2020, 12:43:11 AM
I played against Stevie P back when we were under 10’s. That’s why I know more than any of you about football.

I’ve had a penalty saved by David Marshall - so I’m as good a player as Mitrovic.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cereal Killer on November 25, 2020, 01:12:07 AM
I had a drink with Dele Alli in a pub, so I know nothing about football

Also he’s almost never played since.....  :cheers:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 25, 2020, 01:14:11 AM
I had a drink with Dele Alli in a pub, so I know nothing about football

Also he’s almost never played since.....  :cheers:

OMG he killed Dele!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 25, 2020, 01:59:46 AM
Not only played with, but set up a goal with a quick square ball across the 6 yard box to Carrick.

It was Michael Carrick's brother who had just been released by West Ham though 🤣

Don't get me started on the time I booted Ruud Van Nistlerooy's ball in to the sea, that one doesn't cover me in quite so much glory 😬
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on November 25, 2020, 02:22:45 AM
Saw Phil Thompson in Macro a good while back.

I wanted to call him a wanker but my mate talked me out of it.

Never did quite forgive him for that.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 25, 2020, 02:49:04 AM
Saw Phil Thompson in Macro a good while back.

I wanted to call him a wanker but my mate talked me out of it.

Never did quite forgive him for that.

Played against his son in my Sunday league days.

He was there to watch, someone shouted Pinocchio and he started fuming.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: pedrotheblue on November 25, 2020, 03:27:58 AM
I played in the same side as Gary Naysmith throughout school, he turned Pro and I didn't. How shit must I have been? I also once told Gary Locke I was gonna break his legs in a 5 aside comp, he was a massive bell end and played for Hearts.

Doucouré is gonna be a beast for us.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on November 25, 2020, 03:38:23 AM
Ugh, that reminded me of my dad telling me he got his wang caught in his zip once, lost loads of blood, ended up in hospital.
I read that just as I put a sweet and sour chicken ball in my mouth.

I’m no longer hungry.


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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: formerKHL on November 25, 2020, 03:50:41 AM
I played in the same side as Gary Naysmith throughout school, he turned Pro and I didn't. How shit must I have been? I also once told Gary Locke I was gonna break his legs in a 5 aside comp, he was a massive bell end and played for Hearts.

Doucouré is gonna be a beast for us.

Brian kilcline worked with me at Huddersfield town .....he was a big brash twat thought he was dead hard.....anyway one day it kicked off and I told him if he was 6 inches bigger i’d Twat him....he didn’t know what to say.....I walked away around the corner then ran like fuck....
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 25, 2020, 04:05:26 AM
I read that just as I put a sweet and sour chicken ball in my mouth.

I’m no longer hungry.


Sent from my iPhone using NSNO Everton Forums (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88121)

Haha, soz, Blarg.

It happened in a public loo, and he passed out, and luckily an ambulance was called, as he was bleeding out.

Unfortunately, about a year later, in a nightclub lift in Brighton, a bouncer kneed him in the nads when my dad called him ignorant for refusing to talk to him, so it opened up again  :shock:

As for all this pro talk, my dad was seriously coveted by West Ham, after one of their scouts saw him bag 7 from LW, in a Sussex county league match against Ringmer.

They tried to get him to three trials, eventually arranging a private one for him outside of trial season, because they were certain on him. Unfortunately, my grandad wasn’t a football man (even though he was from the North East) and he wouldn’t let him attend any of the trials, and he got him a job in a car factory instead.

My dad wanted me to turn pro, but I developed physically pretty late, so I was overlooked by Brighton Boys throughout my youth, and my pro trial chances came relatively late (although earlier than my dad) at 15 & 16, with Watford & QPR, but I was too busy gallivanting about by that age.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Nicco on November 25, 2020, 04:12:18 AM
Yeah but he scored 9 open-play goals 2 years ago.
That same season he scored two penalties and missed three for Everton and missed two for Iceland?

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Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on November 25, 2020, 04:30:04 AM
Haha, soz, Blarg.

It happened in a public loo, and he passed out, and luckily an ambulance was called, as he was bleeding out.

Unfortunately, about a year later, in a nightclub lift in Brighton, a bouncer kneed him in the nads when my dad called him ignorant for refusing to talk to him, so it opened up again  :shock:

As for all this pro talk, my dad was seriously coveted by West Ham, after one of their scouts saw him bag 7 from LW, in a Sussex county league match against Ringmer.

They tried to get him to three trials, eventually arranging a private one for him outside of trial season, because they were certain on him. Unfortunately, my grandad wasn’t a football man (even though he was from the North East) and he wouldn’t let him attend any of the trials, and he got him a job in a car factory instead.

My dad wanted me to turn pro, but I developed physically pretty late, so I was overlooked by Brighton Boys throughout my youth, and my pro trial chances came relatively late (although earlier than my dad) at 15 & 16, with Watford & QPR, but I was too busy gallivanting about by that age.

I don't think I'll eat the rest of the week now. Ouch!

Funny about West Ham, one of my old school teachers was about to break into the first team for them back in the 70s until he got his knee cap wiped out by a Luton Town player.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: sam of the south on November 25, 2020, 04:34:40 AM
I don't think I'll eat the rest of the week now. Ouch!

Funny about West Ham, one of my old school teachers was about to break into the first team for them back in the 70s until he got his knee cap wiped out by a Luton Town player.

Oh Jesus, that’s horrific!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 25, 2020, 04:51:00 AM
Wow. Never heard it used for anything other than Estimated Time of Arrival so I guess every day is a school day and an opportunity to learn.

With that spirit in mind, perhaps you'd consider the same when I say that I find you to be extremely binary in your opinions. Whilst it is great that you have strong beliefs and I'm not knocking you for them - it does not make for a great discussion if you hit everyone with the "I'm Right - You're Wrong" hammer, every time they speak.

If this is coming across as super-patronising - mission accomplished.

I can't help but wonder if someone with the name "undisputed" is in the right place to dispute the finer intricacies of the beautiful game, however many better men you have shared a pitch with. It does speak of a rather unchangeable mindset to begin with.

Perhaps come back as "Open-Minded_Blue"?

There you go, here's a link for ETA https://www.allacronyms.com/ETA/Edit_to_Add

Sadly my so called strong views is definitely not a matter of personal opinion. Spotting Doucoure not tracking his man on several occasions wasn't difficult at all. Anyone with a basic knowledge of football should be able to notice these errors.

The sad truth is that the discussions on here have got little to do with understanding the intricacies of football but is merely a platform for people to jump on bandwagons and air their primitive urges. I'm all for actual football discussion but so far all I'm hearing is bandwagon talk which is only good for the toilet.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on November 25, 2020, 05:00:33 AM
There you go, here's a link for ETA https://www.allacronyms.com/ETA/Edit_to_Add

Sadly my so called strong views is definitely not a matter of personal opinion. Spotting Doucoure not tracking his man on several occasions wasn't difficult at all. Anyone with a basic knowledge of football should be able to notice these errors.

The sad truth is that the discussions on here have got little to do with understanding the intricacies of football but is merely a platform for people to jump on bandwagons and air their primitive urges. I'm all for actual football discussion but so far all I'm hearing is bandwagon talk which is only good for the toilet.

You not a fan of primitive urges being aired?
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 25, 2020, 05:06:56 AM
You not a fan of primitive urges being aired?

Nope.

Happy to discuss the intricacies of the game like I did when Pickford made his errors against Fleetwood and Liverpool.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bluedylan on November 25, 2020, 05:21:17 AM
Nope.

Happy to discuss the intricacies of the game like I did when Pickford made his errors against Fleetwood and Liverpool.

Can I ask what troubles you about the airing of primitive urges? I'm curious. Indulge me.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 25, 2020, 05:34:04 AM
There you go, here's a link for ETA https://www.allacronyms.com/ETA/Edit_to_Add

Sadly my so called strong views is definitely not a matter of personal opinion. Spotting Doucoure not tracking his man on several occasions wasn't difficult at all. Anyone with a basic knowledge of football should be able to notice these errors.

The sad truth is that the discussions on here have got little to do with understanding the intricacies of football but is merely a platform for people to jump on bandwagons and air their primitive urges. I'm all for actual football discussion but so far all I'm hearing is bandwagon talk which is only good for the toilet.

So you’ve graduated from bellend comments to pretentious bellend comments? Not bad in the space of a few hours
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 25, 2020, 05:51:15 AM
Can I ask what troubles you about the airing of primitive urges? I'm curious. Indulge me.

Stupidity and ignorance. The inability to discuss the intricacies of the game and as Brownie just kindly demonstrated - childish insults.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on November 25, 2020, 06:26:39 AM
Not only played with, but set up a goal with a quick square ball across the 6 yard box to Carrick.

It was Michael Carrick's brother who had just been released by West Ham though 🤣

Don't get me started on the time I booted Ruud Van Nistlerooy's ball in to the sea, that one doesn't cover me in quite so much glory 😬

Haha! I remember that story! 😂
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on November 25, 2020, 06:31:16 AM
There you go, here's a link for ETA https://www.allacronyms.com/ETA/Edit_to_Add

Sadly my so called strong views is definitely not a matter of personal opinion. Spotting Doucoure not tracking his man on several occasions wasn't difficult at all. Anyone with a basic knowledge of football should be able to notice these errors.

The sad truth is that the discussions on here have got little to do with understanding the intricacies of football but is merely a platform for people to jump on bandwagons and air their primitive urges. I'm all for actual football discussion but so far all I'm hearing is bandwagon talk which is only good for the toilet.

And STILL...


Undisputed.

Well done you.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Elgoodo1978 on November 25, 2020, 07:34:52 AM
I was a great tackler thriving on adversity.

Are you David Copperfield?

EDIT: No it’s Barry Lyndon!
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: YankeeBlue214 on November 25, 2020, 08:22:57 AM
U_B remember that time you complained about losing karma points? (https://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,99965.0.html)

Good times. 😂
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 25, 2020, 12:09:06 PM
Stupidity and ignorance. The inability to discuss the intricacies of the game and as Brownie just kindly demonstrated - childish insults.

Some people are only worth childish insults - especially when they try to disguise their own as some sort of superior insight. If you want to discuss something properly with an open mind you’ll find no more willing an participation than me. If, instead, you want to belittle others by thinking that because you once got nutmegged by Steven Gerrard’s neighbour’s cousin, that it no means you are the greatest football analyst that ever lived, then you’ll get mocked.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Bob Sacamano on November 25, 2020, 12:44:40 PM
What was this dopes former username? I’m sure he’s got history of making mad shouts and losing his head on here before.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: stirlingblue on November 25, 2020, 02:16:41 PM
I once got drunk with Dave Kitson and Hermann Hreiðarsson in Iceland, I mention this as proof that I know my football before stating my opinion.

Doucouré is by no means a perfect player, but he gives a drive and presence to our midfield that we’ve been missing for several years. Assuming we one day get a sitting DM then he’ll be the most attacking of our midfield three, so it’s no surprise that he has defensive lapses.

He’ll be given plenty of time by our fans, because even when he does make mistakes there’s no question about his workrate, and after years of seeing players who are arguably more talented stroll around the pitch at 50% effort it’s a welcome change.

Maybe it’s as another poster mentioned earlier and Allan/Doucouré were brought in for their mentality as well as ability.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 25, 2020, 02:23:18 PM
Haha! I remember that story! 😂

I still feel the shame every time I think of his confused little boy as I shanked the ball in to the sea, and the pissed off look on Ruud's face as he waded in up to his chest in freezing cold water to retrieve it 🤦‍♂️
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on November 25, 2020, 02:57:38 PM
I had a bevy with Rhino many years ago, he was brilliant, just spoke about the 95 cup final
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: blargins on November 25, 2020, 05:17:33 PM
Oh Jesus, that’s horrific!

On the plus side we got an absolutely fantastic teacher. He was an ace ping pong player too. Never saw him get beat. Dodgy knee and all.

And we all collectively made a point of hating Luton Town. I already hated them because they'd always beat us on that plastic pitch of theirs.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cereal Killer on November 26, 2020, 05:31:38 PM
OMG he killed Dele!

And now we’re linked with a move for him in January  :smug:
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Brownie on November 26, 2020, 07:03:47 PM
And now we’re linked with a move for him in January  :smug:

And Winks
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Fynci on November 26, 2020, 07:40:52 PM
I once got drunk with Dave Kitson and Hermann Hreiðarsson in Iceland, I mention this as proof that I know my football before stating my opinion.

Doucouré is by no means a perfect player, but he gives a drive and presence to our midfield that we’ve been missing for several years. Assuming we one day get a sitting DM then he’ll be the most attacking of our midfield three, so it’s no surprise that he has defensive lapses.

He’ll be given plenty of time by our fans, because even when he does make mistakes there’s no question about his workrate, and after years of seeing players who are arguably more talented stroll around the pitch at 50% effort it’s a welcome change.

Maybe it’s as another poster mentioned earlier and Allan/Doucouré were brought in for their mentality as well as ability.

Zoe Ball once bought me a pint, this was prior to her marrying Fatboy Slim (aka Norman Cook), who as we all know, was an integral part to The Housemartins; who released an album entitled "London 0 Hull 4". Anybody who can score so many away from home, especially in the capital, deserves bonus knowledge points.

Also, that album was released just one year prior to The Wedding Present releasing "George Best', who played football.

I don't know what this all means, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that my understanding and knowledge of football cannot be questioned.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Cozzie on November 29, 2020, 01:42:37 AM
Pretty much did everything wrong tonight.

His chance in the first 5 mins changes the game if it goes in.

Still happy with him but get the feeling he is gonna be inconsistent for us.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on November 29, 2020, 01:45:22 AM
Not sure he'd even beat Delph, Gomes or Mina in a race.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: velimski on November 29, 2020, 01:56:26 AM
I'd prefer to not see him shoved to right back/wing back ever again, even if it's in order to bring more attackers on.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Shogun on November 29, 2020, 02:00:49 AM
Hilarious watching him not wanting to take a throw in though, to such an extent that James Rodriguez ended up taking one.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: velimski on November 29, 2020, 02:07:59 AM
Hilarious watching him not wanting to take a throw in though, to such an extent that James Rodriguez ended up taking one.

He took one after which was rightly flagged as a foul throw because it resembled somebody shooting into a basketball net.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 29, 2020, 02:28:29 AM
He was appalling today, didn't look.like a premier league footballer.  System didn't help him, but there's still no excuse for that type of performance.  If that's be Sig there'd be people apoplectic about it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: TheRam on November 29, 2020, 02:30:50 AM
Thought he was ok myself.

Just struggled with the man marking of Leeds as he doesn’t have the quality to turn away, so he ends up playing some sloppy, blind passes.

Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Macca77 on November 29, 2020, 02:31:23 AM
He took one after which was rightly flagged as a foul throw because it resembled somebody shooting into a basketball net.

Laughed out loud at this
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on November 29, 2020, 03:10:57 AM
Thought he was ok myself.

Just struggled with the man marking of Leeds as he doesn’t have the quality to turn away, so he ends up playing some sloppy, blind passes.

Actually, no. He's worse than I thought.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on November 29, 2020, 05:34:08 AM
He's the upgrade lads.

Be a while till we can replace him I think.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: ajax_andy on November 29, 2020, 03:18:57 PM
Doucoure is clearly a limited player, he's very good at certain things but not others... So when in the right set up he's effective, but otherwise he's pretty terrible.

Watching Allan yesterday it was such a gulf in class between him and Doucoure...  It's a little concerning that we have a midfield unit that works well together, but only one player who can play well if you remove either of the other parts of it.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Toddacelli on November 30, 2020, 01:40:18 PM
Doucoure is clearly a limited player, he's very good at certain things but not others... So when in the right set up he's effective, but otherwise he's pretty terrible.

Watching Allan yesterday it was such a gulf in class between him and Doucoure...  It's a little concerning that we have a midfield unit that works well together, but only one player who can play well if you remove either of the other parts of it.

Yup. Be a whole lot happier when Doucoure is the squad player because we have a better starting XI. Won't be fixed these season though, not even in Jan. Need to shift the dead wood first.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: dunkster on November 30, 2020, 05:25:49 PM
Least of our problems at the moment I think. Right back and the third defensive midfielder is the biggest problem followed by no quality of replacement for our front three and a reserve left back that carlo trusts to take over from an injured digne.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Heisenberg on November 30, 2020, 06:35:43 PM
Think he loses his man far too much and stops his run. He’s nowhere near our biggest problem and he will probably look better if you play a defensive mid next to them. The problem is though we keep signing players who are reliant on a lot of other variables. Which means as soon as something isn’t right or someone’s injured, the whole team just goes to bits.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Lazarou on November 30, 2020, 07:32:19 PM
Think he loses his man far too much and stops his run. He’s nowhere near our biggest problem and he will probably look better if you play a defensive mid next to them. The problem is though we keep signing players who are reliant on a lot of other variables. Which means as soon as something isn’t right or someone’s injured, the whole team just goes to bits.

Good point.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on December 01, 2020, 05:06:58 AM
Summary of Doucoure's poor performance

missed chance - 6 minutes

failed to track Harrison - 10 min

easily dispossessed by Kalvin Phillips - 13 min

messed up a simple 2 yard pass to James - 14 min

misplaced pass which stopped our attack - 35 min

poor control led to loss of possession to Leeds who went on to a dangerous attack - 61 min

foul throw - 81 min

poor pass straight to Leeds - 89 min






Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: brap2 on December 01, 2020, 05:23:04 AM
Summary of Doucoure's poor performance

missed chance - 6 minutes

failed to track Harrison - 10 min

easily dispossessed by Kalvin Phillips - 13 min

messed up a simple 2 yard pass to James - 14 min

misplaced pass which stopped our attack - 35 min

poor control led to loss of possession to Leeds who went on to a dangerous attack - 61 min

foul throw - 81 min

poor pass straight to Leeds - 89 min








Don't think anyone would say he was good.

I've not been as 50/50 on a player in ages. Sometimes you can see why we bought him, loads of energy, never far from the ball and two runs into the box in his last two games should have been two goals.

Then other times you think jesus get him away from the ball, his technique just seems to disappear.

I agree he's let runners go a number of times but I think the reason you'd buy him is not to track runners but a) to be a good physical body in the middle third, and b) to get up and down and in the box.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: kramer0 on December 01, 2020, 05:25:52 AM
He’s fine.

Shit recruitment, though.
Title: Re: Doucouré
Post by: Undisputed_blue on December 01, 2020, 05:37:55 AM