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Author Topic: The culture of English football  (Read 12363 times)

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March 02, 2010, 07:25:39 PM
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GLewis

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Taking this post from the argument in the Shawcross thread, I think that there is quite a good debate to be had about English football.

I love Everton, but I can't say that I love English football.

If it came down to a choice between a middle ranked European game and a middle ranked European game, I'd go for the foreign game nearly all the time.

Why?

The playing attitude to football, of the majority of foreign teams, is far more appealing than almost all English ones.

I'm fed up of people criticising players who try and bring the ball down under pressure, to actually play football, and then listening to the same people cheer when someone launches themselves into a header that will only ever end up straight back with the opposition.

I'm fed up of people wildly cheering a slide tackle but then moaning if a through ball that would set up a goal scoring chance, if successful, gets cut out.

I want out full backs to have confidence on the ball and not feel that they are running the risk of a huge storm of abuse if they try and pass the ball back where it has just come from if there are no other free options.

For me, too much store is placed on being able to run around at a ridiculously high tempo for 90 mins.

This isn't just something that is at the top of the senior game.

Junior level football is almost exclusively on over sized pitches.

This positively discourages the development of a short passing style. Players know that they have to kick it long, or dribble themselves, to get anywhere near the goal.

Anyway these are just some of my grumbles with the English game.

What I do like, is the aggression and hostility of the crowds. And the fact that, Liverpool aside, turning up and watching the match isn't some pre-orchestrated idea.

You turn up, watch the match and react accordingly.

I'm sure there are plenty of opposing views, but I think it will be interesting to see what people's likes and dislikes are!

March 02, 2010, 07:40:32 PM
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ilikebrunettes


amen to that. Perfectly summed up. I didnt bother watching the CC final on sun, i watched Bayern instead. As i do every sunday
Murray won't ever win a slam. Mentally not good enough

March 02, 2010, 07:53:20 PM
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GLewis

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amen to that. Perfectly summed up. I didnt bother watching the CC final on sun, i watched Bayern instead. As i do every sunday

When sitting at home I often watch the Spanish footy. My girlfriend often asks why, when the teams have nothing to do with Everton.

It's hard to explain, but it's basically an appreciation of football.

I only really watch an English game (that isn't a big game) when there's nothing else on or the result directly affects Everton.

I will however watch any foreign game.


March 02, 2010, 07:55:27 PM
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Major Clanger

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Nobody likes the food that's served at home.

I'd much rather watch a League One game, or even Bundesliga than the overhyped dross that gets served in Spain and Italy.
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March 02, 2010, 07:56:38 PM
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Endless, Nameless


I completely agree.

This is why I like Arsenal, and love us when we play our stuff.
Oh well, at least Baines is still ace.

March 02, 2010, 07:58:25 PM
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GLewis

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Nobody likes the food that's served at home.

I'd much rather watch a League One game, or even Bundesliga than the overhyped dross that gets served in Spain and Italy.


Why do you think Spain is over hyped?

I'm not saying you don't get boring games abroad. I had a season ticket at Malaga for a year and there were plenty of 0-0s to endure.

However even if the level of play dropped, the intentions to play properly very rarely did.


March 02, 2010, 08:04:22 PM
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Major Clanger

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Why do you think Spain is over hyped?

I'm not saying you don't get boring games abroad. I had a season ticket at Malaga for a year and there were plenty of 0-0s to endure.

However even if the level of play dropped, the intentions to play properly very rarely did.

It's awfully slow, for a start. I mean, even I could control the ball and turn in the amount of time strikers are given by defenders. Then there's the sheer maliciousness of defending, because when they do get close, they deliberately tread on ankles and toes when there's nobody watching. And of course there's the blatant cheating, you think England is bad, well, try to watch a Portuguese league game and you'll see why we need the seemingly stupid rule of the injured player having to wait on the sidelines to be allowed back on the pitch.

And of course all the match-fixing going around everywhere doesn't exactly help either.
I didn't even remember I had a signature.

March 02, 2010, 08:30:10 PM
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top flight for a long time


In Spain and Italy it appears to be a chess game more than a sports contest.  Also, when an attacking player loses the ball everyone runs back and defends.  I dislike the defensice attitude of continetal football.

It also seems to be very stop/start with all the diving and freekicks.  Unfortunately that has crept into English football all too much now and the blatant cheating (e.g. Birmingham's pen on Saturday, Young and Gerrard diving everytime they get in the box) happens far too often.
We're forever Everton....

March 02, 2010, 09:59:40 PM
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Sres


Foreign football is dull and to prove it, when we go to Europe we play dull football.

March 02, 2010, 11:16:21 PM
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Risky

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Agree entirely with GLewis, and I'm glad this debate has been lifted from the other thread as it was going nowhere there!

To add slightly to the debate, I think that one of the reasons I prefer to watch foreign football is because I can watch it relatively free from any preconceived notions and opinions about the teams and the players, and therefore I can enjoy it more in purely football terms.  The way football has changed in this country makes it pretty difficult to just watch a game without being bombarded by all sorts of sideshows and agendas, mainly from Sky and their commentators, and this takes away a lot of the enjoyment for me.

Likewise, I often can't be arsed discussing English football because coverage is so saturated that absolutely everyone has got an opinion (usually not their own, but based on what they've heard from Sky or the papers etc.) and discussion is often a waste of time.  I find that many people you try to discuss things with don't have an awful lot to say other than repeating cliches about the current flavour of the month players and blindly slagging off players and clubs that they don't like.   There's very little real thought that goes in to most of it.

Another part of it is that because of supporting Everton, I have a more vested interest in English football so therefore I find it more difficult to enjoy in general.  It's much more serious compared to sticking on ESPN and watching a random Serie A or Bundesliga game that happens to be on and being able to relax and enjoy the game whilst rarely having any sort of real stake in who wins etc. 


March 02, 2010, 11:47:16 PM
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blargins

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I will throw something else into the hat.

Am I right in saying that the majority of players in the prem are not English? Therefore, shouldn't the English game have much more of a continental flavour?
“The best way to not feel hopeless is to get up and do something. Don’t wait for good things to happen to you. If you go out and make some good things happen, you will fill the world with hope, you will fill yourself with hope.” Barack Obama

March 02, 2010, 11:51:32 PM
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Gary Iceman


i only really watch inter when they are on.otherwise i dont bother cos to me the players go down with the slightest touch and there is too much diving..and diving in our league really only came in when a certain german footballer started it.jurgen klinnsman for spurs..in the 80's early 90's i dont think i seen it.but the foreigners have taught even the english how to go down easy and dive since then.i hate stop start/stop start games.
Alan Harper: "I made my debut at Goodison against Stoke and was standing in the tunnel waiting to go onto the pitch. Z cars started playing on the PA and I heard the crowd roar. If I could bottle a moment and save it forever, then that would be it.

March 02, 2010, 11:56:34 PM
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ilikebrunettes


I will throw something else into the hat.

Am I right in saying that the majority of players in the prem are not English? Therefore, shouldn't the English game have much more of a continental flavour?

The fans wont allow it. Look at the majority of ours on here, especially the 'IMWT' brigade. To most of them, all that matters is the winning, the league table etc.

Or they have those ridiculous notion, that unless you have shit loads of money.... playing attractive, continental football is simply not an option.

English football is absolutely dire to watch, if i want to watch men 'going in hard' or 'roughing people up' i watch Rugby Union. If i want to appreciate the art of passing teh ball.. finding space.... controlling tempo's of a game...

i watch foreign football
Murray won't ever win a slam. Mentally not good enough

March 02, 2010, 11:57:21 PM
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ilikebrunettes


Foreign football is dull and to prove it, when we go to Europe we play dull football.

No, thats because we are absolutely shite at technical football, and cant keep the ball
Murray won't ever win a slam. Mentally not good enough

March 02, 2010, 11:59:32 PM
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Risky

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i only really watch inter when they are on.otherwise i dont bother cos to me the players go down with the slightest touch and there is too much diving..and diving in our league really only came in when a certain german footballer started it.jurgen klinnsman for spurs..in the 80's early 90's i dont think i seen it.but the foreigners have taught even the english how to go down easy and dive since then.i hate stop start/stop start games.

Diving has always been around from what I can gather - Franny Lee apparently was bad for it in the 70s.  It's just that with the level of coverage we have now we see it all.

I don't remember Klinsmann introducing diving really - he was considered a diver already when he arrived and obviously we remember his ironic diving celebration, but I don't remember him particularly being bad for diving during his time in England.

I do agree that diving is certainly something that culturally is more accepted elsewhere than it is in the UK, but to be honest I can watch Italian football now and I see very little difference in the amount of diving and feigning injury there compared to what there is in England. 

Whilst we're talking about cultural differences though, it's interesting that we in the UK treat diving as some kind of sub-human trait in a football however we will applaud a deliberate and cynical foul in order to deliberately stop a counter attack.  Why is one form of cheating different to another?