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Author Topic: The culture of English football  (Read 12358 times)

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March 02, 2010, 11:59:54 PM
Reply #15
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ilikebrunettes


In Spain and Italy it appears to be a chess game more than a sports contest.  Also, when an attacking player loses the ball everyone runs back and defends.  I dislike the defensice attitude of continetal football.

It also seems to be very stop/start with all the diving and freekicks.  Unfortunately that has crept into English football all too much now and the blatant cheating (e.g. Birmingham's pen on Saturday, Young and Gerrard diving everytime they get in the box) happens far too often.

you serious? Defensive??? look at how Liverpool, Chelsea etc have approached major CL games in recent times. even United have done it!!

Foreign football is far more open, the 'fear of losing' is minimal. Another myth created by Sky tv
Murray won't ever win a slam. Mentally not good enough

March 03, 2010, 01:45:21 AM
Reply #16
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Major Clanger

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The fans wont allow it.

Thank fuck for that. If you like that rubbish, fair enough, go and watch that rubbish. No need to turn everything into the same boring crap.
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March 03, 2010, 01:50:42 AM
Reply #17
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Major Clanger

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you serious? Defensive??? look at how Liverpool, Chelsea etc have approached major CL games in recent times. even United have done it!!

Foreign football is far more open, the 'fear of losing' is minimal. Another myth created by Sky tv

It looks more open, because it's so awfully slow. There's acres of space everywhere on the pitch., and defenders won't close it down. Then again, it takes ages for someone to run into that hole and for the ball to eventually get there.

It's good though if you like to rest your eyes or read a book between two passes. Sometimes I look at these La Liga games, and I wonder how everyone in the stands hasn't fallen asleep. Then again, maybe they have.
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March 03, 2010, 02:27:02 AM
Reply #18
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cantoffee


No, thats because we are absolutely shite at technical football, and cant keep the ball

That's not true.

March 03, 2010, 02:29:02 AM
Reply #19
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Amata


Im not a fan of Italian football but the Spanish league is excellent, even the lower teams play good technical football.

The problem with the English game stems from junior football. When the acadamies scout kids at 5+ they go for the tallest, fastest, strongest or kids who get stuck in, ive seen it happen time after time.  

When Arsenal were accused of not giving english kids a chance under Wenger, they were the kids that were already at the acadamy and used to the british style.  Since changing the setup to what he wanted in the late 90's, 10+ years later we are seeing some of the top english prospects coming through and you can guarentee they all have excellent technical ability as its what Wenger demands.  

For me the attitude has to change, not everything is about winning, we have to be teaching kids control, movement and the art of passing before throwing them into games.  We need to realise that its about developing talent and "footballers" not winning a u11's game by 6-0 due to the CB being 6ft2 and the leading scorer being able to run 100m in 9.8 seconds.  
All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind

March 03, 2010, 02:36:22 AM
Reply #20
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cantoffee


Im not a fan of Italian football but the Spanish league is excellent, even the lower teams play good technical football.

The problem with the English game stems from junior football. When the acadamies scout kids at 5+ they go for the tallest, fastest, strongest or kids who get stuck in, ive seen it happen time after time. 

When Arsenal were accused of not giving english kids a chance under Wenger, they were the kids that were already at the acadamy and used to the british style.  Since changing the setup to what he wanted in the late 90's, 10+ years later we are seeing some of the top english prospects coming through and you can guarentee they all have excellent technical ability as its what Wenger demands. 

For me the attitude has to change, not everything is about winning, we have to be teaching kids control, movement and the art of passing before throwing them into games.  We need to realise that its about developing talent and "footballers" not winning a u11's game by 6-0 due to the CB being 6ft2 and the leading scorer being able to run 100m in 9.8 seconds. 

I agree with this. To often coaches of young kids want to win at all costs, so players who are developmentally behind and smaller than others are often pushed aside by the coaches for more physically developed kids. It's a disgrace and too often I hear from clubs/associations in Canada "our u12s won the provincial championship", well when was the last time any of them went on to become professionals? Or are all 12 year olds 6ft nowadays? I get the impression it's similar in the UK, small players are brushed aside as having the physicality to deal with others.


March 03, 2010, 03:10:16 AM
Reply #21
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Risky

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Im not a fan of Italian football but the Spanish league is excellent, even the lower teams play good technical football.

The problem with the English game stems from junior football. When the acadamies scout kids at 5+ they go for the tallest, fastest, strongest or kids who get stuck in, ive seen it happen time after time. 

When Arsenal were accused of not giving english kids a chance under Wenger, they were the kids that were already at the acadamy and used to the british style.  Since changing the setup to what he wanted in the late 90's, 10+ years later we are seeing some of the top english prospects coming through and you can guarentee they all have excellent technical ability as its what Wenger demands. 

For me the attitude has to change, not everything is about winning, we have to be teaching kids control, movement and the art of passing before throwing them into games.  We need to realise that its about developing talent and "footballers" not winning a u11's game by 6-0 due to the CB being 6ft2 and the leading scorer being able to run 100m in 9.8 seconds. 

It's also ridiculous that English kids play full size 11-a-side games from an early age.  Get them playing smaller sided, smaller pitch games so they get the time on the ball and they learn how to use the ball in a more confined space.

You only have to look at the Dutch for an example of how it can be done.  A relatively tiny nation in terms of population but they produce a constant stream of technically excellent young players because they have a youth development system which teaches the importance of skill, vision and technique as opposed to the pace and power favoured by English youth systems. 

March 03, 2010, 03:13:07 AM
Reply #22
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evertonjoe


It's also ridiculous that English kids play full size 11-a-side games from an early age.  Get them playing smaller sided, smaller pitch games so they get the time on the ball and they learn how to use the ball in a more confined space.

You only have to look at the Dutch for an example of how it can be done.  A relatively tiny nation in terms of population but they produce a constant stream of technically excellent young players because they have a youth development system which teaches the importance of skill, vision and technique as opposed to the pace and power favoured by English youth systems. 

Have to agree with this and I defnitely think it can work in England because as well as producing technically proficient players Holland also produces Rock Bastards like John Heitinga who are perfectly suited to the english game whilst still being great passers of the ball and intelligent footballers.

R.A.P Music

March 03, 2010, 03:15:34 AM
Reply #23
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Risky

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I agree with this. To often coaches of young kids want to win at all costs, so players who are developmentally behind and smaller than others are often pushed aside by the coaches for more physically developed kids. It's a disgrace and too often I hear from clubs/associations in Canada "our u12s won the provincial championship", well when was the last time any of them went on to become professionals? Or are all 12 year olds 6ft nowadays? I get the impression it's similar in the UK, small players are brushed aside as having the physicality to deal with others.

I can think of loads of examples of players that I played with in junior football who could dominate the 11 a side games we played back in those days purely through their size and physicality, but who were no good when we all moved in to senior football as they were no longer able to bully their way through games.

Unfortunately even at under 12 level it was all about winning at all costs, rather than developing the skills required to make good footballers when we grew up.  Therefore most coaches just utilised the bigger lads and built the teams around them.  That system is fundamentally wrong.

March 03, 2010, 03:58:18 AM
Reply #24
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ally2


In Spain and Italy it appears to be a chess game more than a sports contest.  Also, when an attacking player loses the ball everyone runs back and defends.  I dislike the defensice attitude of continetal football.

It also seems to be very stop/start with all the diving and freekicks.  Unfortunately that has crept into English football all too much now and the blatant cheating (e.g. Birmingham's pen on Saturday, Young and Gerrard diving everytime they get in the box) happens far too often.

I enjoyed the all italian CL final at Old Trafford a few years back even though everyone else hated it.  For me, it was a masterclass of defensive skill, tactics and organisation almost perfectly executed with possession football. 

The premier league is absolute garbage but the hype keeps it afloat.

March 03, 2010, 05:09:30 AM
Reply #25
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Major Clanger

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When Arsenal were accused of not giving english kids a chance under Wenger, they were the kids that were already at the acadamy and used to the british style.  Since changing the setup to what he wanted in the late 90's, 10+ years later we are seeing some of the top english prospects coming through and you can guarentee they all have excellent technical ability as its what Wenger demands. 

Like who? Simpson? Wilshere? Don't make me laugh, He's been at Arsenal for 14 years, kids join the youth setup at what, 9? 10? That means that his first wunderkids should be about 23 at least.  Funny, I can't seem to find them anywhere.
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March 03, 2010, 08:45:36 AM
Reply #26
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Dr. Sponge


To be honest, I would watch absolutely any football match.

I'm struggling to find anything else to say, because although English and certain foreign league have very different styles of play, I don't really have a preference.

I enjoy watching the sheer footballing talent and master tacticians at work in the Spanish and Italian Leagues, but I equally enjoy watching the passion and will-to-win of the English teams. I enjoy watching Iniesta's incredible displays as much as I enjoy watching Kevin Davies battle with centre backs for scraps.

March 03, 2010, 04:04:45 PM
Reply #27
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ilikebrunettes


Like who? Simpson? Wilshere? Don't make me laugh, He's been at Arsenal for 14 years, kids join the youth setup at what, 9? 10? That means that his first wunderkids should be about 23 at least.  Funny, I can't seem to find them anywhere.


Er.... Ashle Cole, Gibbs... Muamba... The Hoyte Brothers

Wenger has done more for English football than any other coach in the last 10 years
Murray won't ever win a slam. Mentally not good enough

March 03, 2010, 04:05:19 PM
Reply #28
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ilikebrunettes


That's not true.

oh really? care to show me the evidence to support your claim? I can show you plenty to support mine mate
Murray won't ever win a slam. Mentally not good enough

March 03, 2010, 05:03:52 PM
Reply #29
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Major Clanger

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Er.... Ashle Cole, Gibbs... Muamba... The Hoyte Brothers

Wenger has done more for English football than any other coach in the last 10 years

That Wenger bloke must really be a genius, he had spotted and enrolled Ashley Cole several years before he himself joined Arsenal.

The rest is just lol.
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