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Author Topic: The culture of English football  (Read 12373 times)

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March 03, 2010, 06:03:34 PM
Reply #30
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ilikebrunettes


That Wenger bloke must really be a genius, he had spotted and enrolled Ashley Cole several years before he himself joined Arsenal.

The rest is just lol.

So Wenger didnt bring him into the 1st team? or develop his career?

David Bentley, Sidwell, Upson, Pennant, Wright, Jeffers, Lansbury, Randall, Walcott, Bartley, Gilbert, J Hoyte, G Hoyte, Watt, Simpson, Cruise, Eastmond, Wilshere, Emanuel Thomas, Frimpong, Sunu

all examples of young english players who wenger has helped develop their careers.
Murray won't ever win a slam. Mentally not good enough

March 03, 2010, 06:55:48 PM
Reply #31
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Major Clanger

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So Wenger didnt bring him into the 1st team? or develop his career?

David Bentley, Sidwell, Upson, Pennant, Wright, Jeffers, Lansbury, Randall, Walcott, Bartley, Gilbert, J Hoyte, G Hoyte, Watt, Simpson, Cruise, Eastmond, Wilshere, Emanuel Thomas, Frimpong, Sunu

all examples of young english players who wenger has helped develop their careers.

Surely you mean, examples of yoinug enlgish players he's fucked off or bought from somewhere.

Never mind praising shite like the Hoytes or Sidwell, who have no technical ability, only their extreme physical attributes, but Jeffers and Walcott? You're crazy, man. I feel embarrassed for you.
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March 03, 2010, 06:59:57 PM
Reply #32
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Dr. Sponge


So Wenger didnt bring him into the 1st team? or develop his career?

David Bentley, Sidwell, Upson, Pennant, Wright, Jeffers, Lansbury, Randall, Walcott, Bartley, Gilbert, J Hoyte, G Hoyte, Watt, Simpson, Cruise, Eastmond, Wilshere, Emanuel Thomas, Frimpong, Sunu

all examples of young english players who wenger has helped develop their careers.

 lolol lolol lolol


March 03, 2010, 07:00:50 PM
Reply #33
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ilikebrunettes


Are you for real? Sidwell has excellent technique! So did fucking Jeffers, have you a shit memory?
Murray won't ever win a slam. Mentally not good enough

March 03, 2010, 07:15:48 PM
Reply #34
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GLewis

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The difference in the youth approaches can still be seen in the national team.

There isn't one England player who would fit into Barcelona's (attacking) style of play, with maybe the exception of Ashley Cole.

Given that nearly everyone accepts that Barca are the model to follow that's a damning indictment.

That's not to say that England doesn't have very good or even world class players. Rooney and Gerrard are clearly superb players, but they are very much in the English mould.

Their games are based around a prodigious work rate and an ability to run hard and fast for a long time. Lampard, often touted as the best midfielder in the world (or at least he was 2-3 years ago) has a game based around being able to run up and down the pitch and whack the ball hard.

These players have lots of ability, but it's not always the first thing that springs to mind. You can't say that anyone when talking about Messi would cite his work rate as one of the first things that they notice.

And this is something that runs through the entire game.


March 03, 2010, 08:07:17 PM
Reply #35
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Major Clanger

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What Barca are doing is in no way a model to follow. Any team that plays the same way on anything but the highest possible level would be utterly destroyed. And Messi does stand out with his work rate and pace, if he didn't, he would've been slaughtered by the spanish defenders years ago. I'd go as far as to claim that it's exactly hjis pace and workrate that raise him above the scores of well-trained flicky-flacky attacking midfielders.

Obviously, people who don't know much about football will drool over his tricks and flicks but let's not sink to their level.

But isn't it funny that on the one hand people bemoan the English game being shit and trot out their ideas on who to copy, then the very same people moan about football losing its national character. Instead of enjoying the multitude of approaches, and how one can temporarily dominate the others, then seeing everything turn around in a couple of years, they want a uniform plastic shit that's only pleasing to the eye because it's different from what we're used to. Once they'd get used to that, they could see it for the uniform plastic shit it is, but it'd be too late by then.
I didn't even remember I had a signature.


March 03, 2010, 08:56:53 PM
Reply #36
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Major Clanger

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Are you for real? Sidwell has excellent technique! So did fucking Jeffers, have you a shit memory?

Brilliant, it's a mistery why Barcelona haven't swooped for him.

I have a very good memory, thank you very much, that's why I remember that Jeffers is a product of _our_ academy and not Wenger's, as Walcott is Southampton's.

In the meantime I'm still eagerly waiting for the list of the dozens of brilliant, technically gifted (although possibly physically less so) English players Wenger has produced at his famous academy.
I didn't even remember I had a signature.

March 03, 2010, 10:59:54 PM
Reply #37
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ilikebrunettes


Walcott didnt kick a ball until he was 11!! So Wenger has given him just as much guidance as Southampton.

I went to watch Arsenals youth team last season against Burnley, trust me the technical level was amazing. Anyone who saw last seasons youth cup final will also testify
Murray won't ever win a slam. Mentally not good enough

March 04, 2010, 05:07:32 AM
Reply #38
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Major Clanger

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Walcott didnt kick a ball until he was 11!! So Wenger has given him just as much guidance as Southampton.

I went to watch Arsenals youth team last season against Burnley, trust me the technical level was amazing. Anyone who saw last seasons youth cup final will also testify

Walcott was a first team player for Southampton, fotr fuck's sake. He was brought up and more importantly, selected by English coaches, who allegedly value bullying power over skill. And it's a good job he had featured for Southampton, because it gave us the chance to see him back then, and compare it to what he is now, he hasn't improved a single jot.

(Jeffers was the clincher though, he was bloody 20 when they signed him. Twen-ty years old. But obviously it was Wenger who turned him into...errrmm...the solid rock for Sheffield Wednesday he is now. Rock, because he's only dragging them down.

Where are all the great English players Wenger had selected for their youth teams then? They must be hiding somewhere surely.
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March 04, 2010, 05:21:09 AM
Reply #39
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Chazman


Wenger destroyed Jeffers. The lad had everything going for him till he went there.Didn't Wenger pay £8 mil for him? How much did he get back after he waved his magic football wand and turned him into a world beater
"I fuckin love this club"

March 04, 2010, 05:39:19 AM
Reply #40
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Major Clanger

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The sad truth is, Wenger simply can't handle the English mindset. Not because he's a bad manager, because he's undoubtedly a world class manager. Not because the English mindset is bad, because it's amazingly effective. They just don't click, it's as simple as that.

And this is a warning sign for everyone who wants to radically change the way kids are coached, to mimic some other country's methods. If you tell a bunch of English kids to just play the way they like, it'd probably end in a brawl, or rugby if they're upper-class.

We tried the same shit in Hungary, we've long abandoned our traditional mentality that was based on vision and positional awareness and every five years or so, someone comes up with a brilliant idea about who to copy. Once it's the Dutch, then it's the Italians and so on. And it never works out, because that's not the way we think.

I've played with or against absolutely amateur footballers from Hungary, Spain, France, Ukraine, Australia and England and the way they approached the game was completely differently, and it has clearly nothing to do with coaching.

Of course, coaching methods have to evolve, but changing the philosophy leads to disaster.

I didn't even remember I had a signature.

March 04, 2010, 06:00:50 AM
Reply #41
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Chazman


Totally agree Biz. In the late 70's and early 80's when the English national team was probably at it's lowest ebb, all sorts of experts were trying to get England to play the continental way.Whenever they tried passing it around the defence like the Italians did they got hammered.They just couldn't do it .Remember too that this was at a time when English clubs were winning the European Cup year in year out re:- The shite,Forest and Villa.They won by playing the way English play.
"I fuckin love this club"

March 05, 2010, 01:39:59 AM
Reply #42
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Amata


I think everyone has missed my point with wenger.  Im not talking about the Ashley Cole's who were just breaking through anyway im talking about the lads that are now 19 and under.  After he joined Arsenal in 1996 he would have changed the youth setup and scouting network (maybe not right away) to reflect his football philosiphy and now if you look a the FA youth cup winning side from last year that destroyed Liverpool and played some top class football there were 9 English players in the starting 11 with a couple more on the bench.

He never not liked English players, just not ones who were not technically up to his standard. Now that he's developed them how he wanted from a young age you will see a lot more English players coming through with excellent technique, passing, movement etc. 
All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind

March 05, 2010, 02:08:41 AM
Reply #43
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Major Clanger

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I think everyone has missed my point with wenger.  Im not talking about the Ashley Cole's who were just breaking through anyway im talking about the lads that are now 19 and under.  After he joined Arsenal in 1996 he would have changed the youth setup and scouting network (maybe not right away) to reflect his football philosiphy and now if you look a the FA youth cup winning side from last year that destroyed Liverpool and played some top class football there were 9 English players in the starting 11 with a couple more on the bench.

He never not liked English players, just not ones who were not technically up to his standard. Now that he's developed them how he wanted from a young age you will see a lot more English players coming through with excellent technique, passing, movement etc. 

No, we haven't missed it at all. Wenger has been at Arsenal since 1996. The players who started with the under-10s at that time are 23-24 now. Where are all the brilliant 18-22 year old Wenger kids? Errrm, nowhere, I'm afraid. Destroying everyone at youth level is great, unfortunately football is about first team players and hardly any English players have come through Wenger's brilliant setup. If any, because however I rack my brain, I can't think of a single one.
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March 05, 2010, 02:25:47 AM
Reply #44
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ilikebrunettes


he has Gibbs, Wilshere, Lansbury, Bartley, Emanuel Thomas etc who are all on the verge of breaking through
Murray won't ever win a slam. Mentally not good enough