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Author Topic: Malky McKay  (Read 12099 times)

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November 21, 2014, 06:26:13 PM
Reply #45
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Bob Sacamano

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There's always one who gets their pants pulled down in a thread like this.

November 21, 2014, 06:27:25 PM
Reply #46
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Bluedylan


Isn't it just an abbreviation for a race of people? I don't use the term to be fair but is it any worse than calling Jewish people Jews for instance.

I suppose for some people it might be. It's the negative connotations that come with a word. For example 'nigger' is only a word when viewed in isolation, but it's the weight of history attached to the word and the ways in which a word has been used to oppress people that give it it's 'power', and the same with 'chink' and 'paki' (although they have their own distinct historical connotations, separate from slavery etc).

One very quick test for the acceptability of a word for people who are confused or unsure as to which words are acceptable (I know it's not always completely clear as words change meaning and levels of acceptability) is this. Would you feel completely happy and comfortable walking into a group of people you are referring to (in this instance Chinese people or people of Chinese origin) and referring to them as 'chinks' to their faces, or is it only something you might say to other non-Chinese people in private circumstances? If you wouldn't do that, there's a very good chance that the word is offensive and has historical negative connotations, which involve the word being used as a demeaning racial epithet.
 
EDIT: That test is not fool proof because it relies on the person carrying it out having a reasonable amount of awareness of the world around them, and awareness of what is acceptable behaviour towards different groups in society.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 06:33:42 PM by Bluedylan »
''In the words of the prophet, today you sell your ring, tomorrow your watch, next week your chain and in 77 days, you won't have eyes to cry with''

Accattone - Pier Paolo Pasolini.

November 21, 2014, 06:59:36 PM
Reply #47
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Major Clanger

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I suppose for some people it might be. It's the negative connotations that come with a word. For example 'nigger' is only a word when viewed in isolation, but it's the weight of history attached to the word and the ways in which a word has been used to oppress people that give it it's 'power', and the same with 'chink' and 'paki' (although they have their own distinct historical connotations, separate from slavery etc).

History is important. In Hungarian "paki" really is just short for Pakistani (we've had no contact with them historically) and of course you can buy this in most shops:



(It isn't even referring to black people, just to the fact that "negro" is Latin for the colour black and the sweets are black.)
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November 21, 2014, 07:02:34 PM
Reply #48
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Ross


I suppose for some people it might be. It's the negative connotations that come with a word. For example 'nigger' is only a word when viewed in isolation, but it's the weight of history attached to the word and the ways in which a word has been used to oppress people that give it it's 'power', and the same with 'chink' and 'paki' (although they have their own distinct historical connotations, separate from slavery etc).

One very quick test for the acceptability of a word for people who are confused or unsure as to which words are acceptable (I know it's not always completely clear as words change meaning and levels of acceptability) is this. Would you feel completely happy and comfortable walking into a group of people you are referring to (in this instance Chinese people or people of Chinese origin) and referring to them as 'chinks' to their faces, or is it only something you might say to other non-Chinese people in private circumstances? If you wouldn't do that, there's a very good chance that the word is offensive and has historical negative connotations, which involve the word being used as a demeaning racial epithet.
 
EDIT: That test is not fool proof because it relies on the person carrying it out having a reasonable amount of awareness of the world around them, and awareness of what is acceptable behaviour towards different groups in society.


Yeah I agree with that, the trouble is BD you'll always find someone who'll find even the most innocuous comment offensive. A perfect example is in this thread really where we've got the sites most objectionable misogynist taking offence of a few text messages with minor racial connotations.


Just kind of reeks of hypocrisy really, we've had one poster seemingly hounded off the site for his personal views yet we're all guilty in someone of causing offence without intentionally mean to. People in glass houses and all that.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.

November 21, 2014, 07:04:25 PM
Reply #49
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Major Clanger

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Didn't "Harry" basically say that everyone in football says similar things, or at least has done?

I'd bet there's more than Whelan who wouldn't think anything of it.

Saying it in private and within the right context is fine.

In writing and in a professional context it isn't acceptable for me.
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November 21, 2014, 07:08:02 PM
Reply #50
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Major Clanger

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Yeah I agree with that, the trouble is BD you'll always find someone who'll find even the most innocuous comment offensive. A perfect example is in this thread really where we've got the sites most objectionable misogynist taking offence of a few text messages with minor racial connotations.

There's always the risk of taking offence on someone else's behalf but the texts themselves were clearly meant as insults.
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November 21, 2014, 07:17:04 PM
Reply #51
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GLewis

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There's always the risk of taking offence on someone else's behalf but the texts themselves were clearly meant as insults.

Think he means Whelan's bumblings, which do represent many of an "older" generation.

Which is where the below comes in.


Saying it in private and within the right context is fine.

In writing and in a professional context it isn't acceptable for me.

He (Whelan) should be more aware that the world has changed.

November 21, 2014, 07:21:44 PM
Reply #52
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Bluedylan


Yeah I agree with that, the trouble is BD you'll always find someone who'll find even the most innocuous comment offensive. A perfect example is in this thread really where we've got the sites most objectionable misogynist taking offence of a few text messages with minor racial connotations.


Just kind of reeks of hypocrisy really, we've had one poster seemingly hounded off the site for his personal views yet we're all guilty in someone of causing offence without intentionally mean to. People in glass houses and all that.

Who's the site's most objectionable misogynist?

Anyway, take your wider point and it can be really difficult for people to navigate all the different sensibilities. I'd be amazed if there was anyone in existence who isn't guilty of some form of discrimination at times (I know I am or have been guilty of it, much as it doesn't sit well with my preachy, liberal, do-gooder persona). We all make assumptions about people before we know or meet them, whether subconsciously or not and that is discrimination. It's unavoidable imo.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 07:23:19 PM by Bluedylan »
''In the words of the prophet, today you sell your ring, tomorrow your watch, next week your chain and in 77 days, you won't have eyes to cry with''

Accattone - Pier Paolo Pasolini.

November 21, 2014, 07:36:16 PM
Reply #53
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Major Clanger

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Who's the site's most objectionable misogynist?

I don't know but it should definitely be a category in the end of year votes. :)
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November 21, 2014, 08:18:30 PM
Reply #54
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74Blue


Dave Whelan is seriously out of touch on this occasion if he genuinely believes that referring to somebody as a chink, or chinky is not racist or wrong. To then dig himself even deeper by using the stereotype of Jews being tight makes the whole thing even more astounding. I honestly thought that I had somehow been transported back to the 70's when I saw him being interviewed on SSN last night. The guy is a fucking dinosaur!

November 21, 2014, 08:30:04 PM
Reply #55
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bacon sarnie


Dave Whelan is seriously out of touch on this occasion if he genuinely believes that referring to somebody as a chink, or chinky is not racist or wrong. To then dig himself even deeper by using the stereotype of Jews being tight makes the whole thing even more astounding. I honestly thought that I had somehow been transported back to the 70's when I saw him being interviewed on SSN last night. The guy is a fucking dinosaur!


Well said. Was about to type something similar but you hit the nail on the proverbial head like.

Was an eye-opener to take my 'foreign' family 'back home' in the 90s never mind the 70s: 'What's the chinkies dad?'

'Why son?'

'Uncle Billy wants to know what I want from it.'

............................. ........

And my fave vino is Gato Negro.







November 21, 2014, 09:34:51 PM
Reply #56
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TheRam

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He's talking about me.

Hey there mister can you tell me what happened to the seeds I've sown
Can you give me a reason sir as to why they've never grown

November 21, 2014, 11:11:54 PM
Reply #57
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TheRam

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'Minor racial connotations'

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

I find it strange and quite uncomfortable that you're willing to defend blatant racism just to have a pop at me.

Bizzare behaviour tbh.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 11:12:14 PM by TheRam »
Hey there mister can you tell me what happened to the seeds I've sown
Can you give me a reason sir as to why they've never grown

November 21, 2014, 11:22:27 PM
Reply #58
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Alex6691


Has someones post been deleted? this isn't making any sense..

November 21, 2014, 11:53:48 PM
Reply #59
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Major Clanger

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Has someones post been deleted? this isn't making any sense..

No, I think we're just not making sense . :)
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