November 23, 2017, 05:31:37 PM

Poll

Man of the Match

Joel
1 (1.2%)
Coleman
0 (0%)
Stones
0 (0%)
Funes Mori
2 (2.3%)
Baines
2 (2.3%)
Besic
66 (76.7%)
Barry
13 (15.1%)
Deulofeu
0 (0%)
Barkley
0 (0%)
Cleverley
0 (0%)
Lukaku
2 (2.3%)
Osman (Sub)
0 (0%)
Mirallas (Sub)
0 (0%)
Kone (Sub)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 86

Author Topic: Everton v Manchester City  (Read 47399 times)

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January 06, 2016, 12:18:13 AM
Reply #30
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howard1334


Nothing personal to you Gash, but it's sad how quickly expectations have been lowered since the Moyes days that now the general consensus is that fans are now generally pleased with getting draws against teams like Spurs and West Ham, and that losing to a top side like City is bearable as long as we go out with our heads held high.

Just somewhat ironic that a manager who explicitly set out to raise expectations, after a manager who did all he could to lower them, has succeeded in doing the exact opposite.

These teams you mention above were all objectively worse when Moyes was manager. Man City was only a force Moyes' last few years, and even then they were not quite the developed article they are now; Tottenham did finish Top 4 once, but otherwise were not as good as they are this season; and West Ham is miles better now than they have been in over a decade. So you also need to take the improvements other teams have made into consideration.

Also, I don't think the expectations were so high under Moyes. We have actually fared much, much better against the top 4 under Martinez from a statistical standpoint than we ever did under Moyes. If you are going to unreasonably and unnecessarily compare Moyes to Martinez every few posts, you should probably have your facts straight.

January 06, 2016, 12:20:49 AM
Reply #31
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howard1334


On paper that's true but, until Martinez came along, we used to make City our slutty little bitch on a regular basis.

Anyway I agree I don't think we should be calling for Martinez's head based on this game. In fact the idea that any one game, whether it's a cup final or title decider, should be the basis for sacking a manager is stupid.

The difference has little do with Moyes and more to do with Man City's development. Further, as I mentioned in my earlier post, we have fared much, much better against Arsenal, Man U, and Chelsea under Martinez.

January 06, 2016, 01:24:00 AM
Reply #32
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brap2

NSNO Subscriber
This is ALMOST a free dig for Martinez this imo.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

January 06, 2016, 01:45:20 AM
Reply #33
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Ell Capitan

NSNO Subscriber
These teams you mention above were all objectively worse when Moyes was manager. Man City was only a force Moyes' last few years, and even then they were not quite the developed article they are now; Tottenham did finish Top 4 once, but otherwise were not as good as they are this season; and West Ham is miles better now than they have been in over a decade. So you also need to take the improvements other teams have made into consideration.

Also, I don't think the expectations were so high under Moyes. We have actually fared much, much better against the top 4 under Martinez from a statistical standpoint than we ever did under Moyes. If you are going to unreasonably and unnecessarily compare Moyes to Martinez every few posts, you should probably have your facts straight.

Yeah you're right. Like when we beat City in 2012, the season they won the league. What a bag of shite they were.

January 06, 2016, 01:50:05 AM
Reply #34
Online

TheRam

NSNO Subscriber
Ridiculous to say expectations have been lowered under Martinez.

Although we did beat city a few times, we always went into that game with hope rather than expectation

We're 11th and the majority of our fans are calling for the managers head because we know we're good enough to be challenging for top 4 and that's the expectation these days.

Under the previous regime we often found ourselves in the same position in January, yet the reaction and mood amongst the fan base was a lot different.

This constant rewriting of history needs to be swerved.

January 06, 2016, 02:00:17 AM
Reply #35
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howard1334


Yeah you're right. Like when we beat City in 2012, the season they won the league. What a bag of shite they were.

Yes, I am right. They were not, over the course of Moyes' career, anywhere near the level they have been during Martinez's. The victory in 2012 arguably was, in part, the consequence of momentum we had established against them while they were still developing. Isolated incidents fail to prove the trend your are seeking to establish. And, again, the larger point is that we have been much better against the top sides under Martinez than we were under Moyes regardless of whether or not you consider the Man City wins.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 04:08:39 AM by howard1334 »

January 06, 2016, 02:02:48 AM
Reply #36
Online

Audrey Horne

NSNO Subscriber
can we have one thread where we dont discuss David fucking Moyes??
I have to return some videotapes.

January 06, 2016, 02:05:17 AM
Reply #37
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Ell Capitan

NSNO Subscriber
The victory in 2012 arguably carried over momentum we had established against them while thry were still developing.

I get the overall point you're trying to make, but man you're talking some fucking garbage to get there.

January 06, 2016, 02:39:17 AM
Reply #38
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brap2

NSNO Subscriber
Stoke getting beat by the shite.


You know what they need, a big horrible grok at CB.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

January 06, 2016, 03:04:38 AM
Reply #39
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Thomas


If we win this tournament - anyone bothered about our league place after it?

I'm not sure. Although finishing higher shows we are serious and could attract better players in the summer . @Gash @Rhys @Simon Paul

January 06, 2016, 03:05:03 AM
Reply #40
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Thomas


Stoke getting beat by the shite.


You know what they need, a big horrible grok at CB.

Lol

January 06, 2016, 03:46:39 AM
Reply #41
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sybilroad


Such a tough game, a bear pit atmosphere and bravery and a crowd frightening the shit out of the City players and fate COYB!

January 06, 2016, 03:51:21 AM
Reply #42
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howard1334


I get the overall point you're trying to make, but man you're talking some fucking garbage to get there.

I think your unsubstantiated point, which has no empirical backing and flies in the face of facts, is what is garbage. And I think you now realize that fact, which is why you resorted to what amounts to an ad hominen.

And I don't think it is ridiculous to say that part of the reason we beat Man City so many times in a row is that we had a mental advantage over them heading into matches. Once we did lose to them, which was inevitable at some point, and the mental advantage was lost, we were always going to struggle to regularly beat what amounts to a superior team, particularly since Man City is now more consistent and established as a top 4 side.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 04:06:18 AM by howard1334 »

January 06, 2016, 03:58:29 AM
Reply #43
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brap2

NSNO Subscriber
Again, can't help but think that 100 million transfer kitty comes into it again.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

January 06, 2016, 03:59:29 AM
Reply #44
Online

Simon Paul

Administrator
If we win this tournament - anyone bothered about our league place after it?

I'm not sure. Although finishing higher shows we are serious and could attract better players in the summer . @Gash @Rhys @Simon Paul

should just aim to win every game we play to be honest, regardless of competition