September 19, 2019, 09:51:46 AM

Author Topic: [News]Bramley Moore Dock update  (Read 462924 times)

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December 22, 2017, 12:58:15 AM
Reply #30
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I think fan engagement is vital on a new stadium that will last us 50 years or so, so outlive most of us on here.

We're not going to be telling them to increase the leg room by a centimetre on each knee, but telling them whether or not the stadium looks like it will meet our expectations or not is important.

Suggesting small things that people at the club won't have thought of because they've either never experienced matchday from a supporter's point of view, or the current stadium and expectations from fans have changed dramatically since they last went in the Boy's Pen.

I don't have much faith in any kind of non-Everton focus group either - the kind of thing the FSF would put together about the whole Premier League fan base - and nor do I have, and I'm sorry @Bally and everyone else on it, but I don't have too much faith in the Fans' Forum.  Not because of accusations of being "yes men" or whatever for the club, because I know Bally and have spoken to other members enough to know that's not the case.  I do, however, feel that there are times when the club use the Fans Forum as a way of saying "Yeah we spoke to the fans and they loved it" (the old badge being the biggest example) and that there are people within the club who see the FF as a way of saying "yeah we did do consultation" without rolling it out properly.

Every time the club has moved - or got to a stage where they could put forward plans - there has been a vote given to supporters, except this time.  I would expect the result to have been overwhelmingly in favour, so there's no need for a vote on the location, but I do think there has been a huge gap between club and fans on the current plans to move.  Maybe the GM will throw up more interaction, but that's unlikely given the fact that they are treated more as a way of giving presentations to the shareholders than being an actual meeting where real questions can be asked / addressed.
I think we having to adapt to a new world where the gap between 'business necessities' and fans 'needs' is widening. There's been moaning on here for years about the club's attitude to fans but having experience elsewhere I feel it is as good as any and better than most. I think the change is inevitable if we are serious about competing at a higher level, however, that doesn't mean fans views should not still be actively researched and listened to. Some of the things I would like to see are incredibly trivial in the wider scheme of things but it would help me to embrace the new dawn because it would be meaningful to me.
When 1874 Northwich was rising from the ashes of the disaster that was Northwich Victoria fans were included as far as possible. 4 years on it is now so obvious that it was the 'trivia' that was important (design of kit, name, choosing Birtwistle pies etc etc!! Because on a Saturday that is what the fan experiences. That acknowledgement of the fans wants has produced an incredibly loyal and enthusiastic fan base. It may be at a totally different  level to Everton but the principle remains the same.
Ask 40,000 Evertonians on Saturday what Goodison means to them and you will get 40,000 different answers but the club can and should explore those feelings, find trends and similarities and incorporate as much as possible into BM.
When '1874' left Northwich Victoria they left behind so many negatives but what we have taken with us is the soul of the club. Everton need to carefully move the soul of Goodison to the docks.
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.


December 22, 2017, 06:23:05 PM
Reply #31
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You are right, if you were to ask two people on here you would get two different answers, if you were to ask 100 people you would get in the region of 50 different answers, I canít imagine what these small things that the club wonít have thought of could be, any examples ? I am quite happy to let a world renowned sports stadium architect get on with it without being hampered by ineccessary consultations with amateur designers.
I understand what you mean but ask yourself this "What is it about Goodison that makes it special for you?" Obviously memories and seeing world class players, but I bet there's more? With me it's seeing the front of Gwladys St and Bullens Rd stands - they stand out and give the ground individuality. Z Cars and everyone suddenly standing up and the thrill of seeing them come out. Howard Kendall's picture outside Gwladys St. Knowing our family have one of those plaques at the Park End.
Those little things will be trivial to others, you certainly don't start there when designing a new stadium! But they mean something to ME.
There will be lots of little things, probably mostly cosmetic, that will make the new ground ours. If people feel they have been listened to and can SEE some effort to include some of those things then we will feel we 'own' it and that's important.
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

December 22, 2017, 07:05:48 PM
Reply #32
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I've got a brick in the wall too!
So it's important we keep the status quo.








Sorry.😩
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.


December 22, 2017, 08:45:48 PM
Reply #33
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..............errrrrrrr Pink Floyd wasn't it ?
Oh dear, you might just be right there! 😲

I thought I was being so clever. 😦
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 08:46:54 PM by Shropshire Blue »
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

December 31, 2017, 08:56:50 PM
Reply #34
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Yeah it's hard not to have doubts when you hear about escalating costs and the date being put back.

Along with the fairly disasterous activity on the pitch, this has been a horrendous year and doesn't look like getting any better. We're also rans and it looks like we will be evermore.

Moving into the ground in 22/23 (if it happens) means we'll be losing ground every year for another 5/6 years.

Club going nowhere.


If fans expect Sam to have turned us into an exciting attacking effective CL team in 5 weeks I suppose it's not unreasonable for them to be disappointed that the new stadium would not be completed by Easter?

(The like was an accident!!😊)
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

December 31, 2017, 09:14:59 PM
Reply #35
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Just a teeny weeny improper one then? 😊
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.


December 31, 2017, 10:49:13 PM
Reply #36
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Maybe statistically it's been decent but the stats don't tell the story. Overall we've gone significantly backwards, in relation to the teams we were trying to compete with.

We've disastrously messed up a transfer window, fired a manager, not had a succession planned and left a caretaker in for far too long, given the worst ever EL performance by an English team, decreased the quality of our squad overall, panicked and brought a lowest common denominator manager in. And here we sit at the end of the year playing backs to the wall hoofball against two abject teams in the relegation zone, with the promise of another 18 months of this garbage in store.

I'm an optimist and have been accused on here of being a happy clapper in the past. I really think it's tough to put any sort of positive spin on things.

We're so unbelievably far away from Arsenal and Spurs even. Never mind the rest of the top 4 who are even better. And there's absolutely no prospect of change for ages. It's completely knocked the stuffing out of me, from an Everton point of view.

Thankfully, my own actual life is going really well but the Everton side is an utter shambles.
None of us are liking where we are at the moment but I do think we lack a sense of perspective and reality. We only look up at the 'elite' (mega-rich?) clubs above and measure everything from there so, inevitably, we appear to be failing. We also need to look at the (usually) 14 or 15 teams below, and the 3 divisions below that and the hundreds of non league teams even lower in order to put our position into context.
To move up into that 'elite' is very rare - Chelsea and Man City are the only two in my lifetime to have achieved it and it took years in both cases. It will take us years as well and along the way there will be things that fail and all will be doom and gloom and there will be things that work and we'll all feel we've got there!
Do you not think it's human nature that on forums like this at every club fans tend to talk themselves down? We all avidly digest a media and social media where there is instant success or total shit and nothing in between - we want it and we we want it now.
This is all big business where we read a few words somewhere and think we understand and know it all when, in reality,  we know eff all, a mere fraction of what is happening.
I've been around too long to believe Moshiri or anyone else changes everything overnight and also to believe a poor season (or in the top half of one of the best leagues in the world as most other clubs supporters would see it) is the end of the world.
I firmly believe it will come right but people do need to keep that sense of perspective and hopefully regain the sense of humour scousers are famous for. I won't go as far as to say ' it's only a game' or I'd rightfully be banned but I live near Stoke - so I know life could be worse than it is in Goodison.
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

January 01, 2018, 07:42:19 PM
Reply #37
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Actually you would think an astute businessman like Moshiri would have had that covered when announcing the cost in the first place . The longer he is in charge the more I think he is going to fuck it all up on and off the pitch .
Can't see how anything like an accurate costing can be achieved until detailed plans are drawn and permissions obtained.  In addition there are sure to be unexpected things come up. I can't bring to mind any major development where I haven't eventually read it cost more than originally estimated.
We need to chill and stop fretting about it, it's going to happen at a pace we can't control by people with many different agendas that we aren't aware of with funds sourced from loads of people and places that we've never thought of.
Basically we're helpless apart from some consultation about what will be cosmetic issues so, to paraphrase from elsewhere, just lie back and think of Everton!!
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

January 09, 2018, 10:42:38 PM
Reply #38
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Right Iíll put it out there red sandstone (from west Kirby) blue anchors and a clock that works to offset the 5 sided one in the dock next door, for me thatís proper sympathetic and has took 5 mins to design. Iíll get the Lego out later and submit a top design tomorrow Iíll use foil to represent the Mersey
I want a stutue of someone as well. I know we have Dixie  (assuming we remember to pack him when we leave) but if it has to blend with the waterfront what about  Brian Labone or Howard Kendall (both maybe?) in a sitting position by the water's edge with fishing rod (s)?
But I definitely want a statue.
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

January 09, 2018, 11:24:38 PM
Reply #39
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Deffo, also like us to have the Goodison granites there as well
I'd forgotten the granites!! They've got to be there as well and I want ours lifting up to eye level in a prominent position. I deserve that after going to West Brom over Xmas.
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

January 09, 2018, 11:26:57 PM
Reply #40
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Pretty much yeah
Wasn't  it part of the overall plan to have the running track but then remove it after the games?  Not that it matters now.
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

January 09, 2018, 11:42:46 PM
Reply #41
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Don't think we will ever be as close to the pitch as Goodison is, someone mentioned about regs not allowing it, which is a shame.
If it's not completed until after Brexit then we can revert to imperial measurements and creep a little closer.
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

January 10, 2018, 02:07:53 AM
Reply #42
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Laughed out loud at that one. Thanks
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

January 10, 2018, 09:47:05 PM
Reply #43
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How long would it take any club outside the top few to build a team capable of challenging for the league? Make allowances for raising the money, developing commercial activities and developing/building grounds etc.
Come to a reasonably broad concensus for that and it gives us a realistic date when we can judge if it has succeeded or failed.
If anyone quotes Leicester also make allowances that events like that happen approximately twice a century.
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.

January 18, 2018, 02:11:24 AM
Reply #44
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If we want parity with the elite clubs shouldn't we be charging their prices?
The Himalayas has the Yeti, Norway has Trolls, America has Hillbillies. You, good people, are blessed with Shropshire.