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Author Topic: [News]Bramley Moore Dock update  (Read 475484 times)

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March 24, 2017, 02:06:56 PM
Reply #1515
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GLewis

NSNO Subscriber
Upkeep will also tend to be more expensive. Looking at the financial statements, the club made 17.6 million from gate receipts last season and if I counted correctly there were 23 home matches. That's about 765.000 pounds per match. If ticket prices stay the same, an extra 20k normal seats would increase income by 50%, or about 9 million. So the difference between a 50k and 60k stadium would be maybe 5 million per year. That has to be offset by the rising costs. For instance Emirates (which has a capacity of 60k) cost 400 million just for the stadium, total development was almost 500 million.

So it would either mean increased yearly payments or cutting corners and building cheaper.

Yes.

So if not in the actual build then there must be the option to (relatively) easily expand.

I'm just conscious of the fact that we're already behind (taking into account planned expansions etc) the teams above us in the table and Newcastle and West Ham.

50,000 would only be just above Sunderland.

It seems a question of where we're positioning ourselves. I don't think being restricted to 11,000 behind Spurs, 10,000 behind West Ham would be ideal.

Of course City and L'pool are behind hem but they have the flexibility to match that should they wish.


March 24, 2017, 02:28:04 PM
Reply #1516
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van der Meyde


Yes.

From a business point of view being sold out every week shows that you don't have enough capacity to meet your potential income levels. Obviously there's a balance between being able to hold peak demand and ensuring the average attendance supports the forecasts re the costs of the stadium. But I think it should be normal to get 60,000 for the derby but 50,000 for Hull, for example.
From a business perspective, being at full capacity creates a scarcity that enables them to justify them raising prices too.

We as fans shouldn't be encouraging a smaller stadium because we're scared of being mocked about a few empty seats.

I appreciate the upkeep argument that @Makis has put forth, but I don't think it takes into account hospitality and corporate seating in to account. An increase in overall capacity would also allow an increase in premium seating which should easily offset general operating costs.

Personally, I think that given the city's proposed growth around that area, that premium seating at a city centre location would be very desirable. Everton have always very strong walk up numbers anyway, but additional capacity would help to encourage tourists who'll spend s lot of money in club shops. That's all before the general fact that a new stadium almost always results in a general overall increase in attendance anyway.
...

March 24, 2017, 02:31:09 PM
Reply #1517
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van der Meyde


Let's not forget, stadium naming rights and other inevitable commercial partnerships have yet to be factored into this. The club could potentially bring in A LOT of money in those areas, if you look at the 75m FF/shirt deal that's been agreed. From what I can see, we'll have to pay out 14m for 40 years, which is a miniscule amount to secure a self-funded, iconic stadium and to secure the future of the club for the next 50-100 years in the grand scheme of things.
Where has that 14m figure come from? I saw it mentioned on another board but surprised it's that low. (Arsenal's, in comparison, was about 30m.)
...


March 24, 2017, 02:35:27 PM
Reply #1518
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Goaljira

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Let's not forget, stadium naming rights and other inevitable commercial partnerships have yet to be factored into this. The club could potentially bring in A LOT of money in those areas, if you look at the 75m FF/shirt deal that's been agreed. From what I can see, we'll have to pay out 14m for 40 years, which is a miniscule amount to secure a self-funded, iconic stadium and to secure the future of the club for the next 50-100 years in the grand scheme of things.

Makes the 15m a year FF naming rights deal seem a lot more calculated in getting it announced and out there months before it was announced that we'd be having a deal for the new ground that will likely cost us in the end around 15m per year....

March 24, 2017, 02:38:35 PM
Reply #1519
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Goaljira

NSNO Subscriber
Yes.

So if not in the actual build then there must be the option to (relatively) easily expand.

I'm just conscious of the fact that we're already behind (taking into account planned expansions etc) the teams above us in the table and Newcastle and West Ham.

50,000 would only be just above Sunderland.

It seems a question of where we're positioning ourselves. I don't think being restricted to 11,000 behind Spurs, 10,000 behind West Ham would be ideal.

Of course City and L'pool are behind hem but they have the flexibility to match that should they wish.

Unless Moshiri has controlling shares in one of the VR companies, and realises we'll only need 50k seats onsite as everyone will be able to sit at home with their 3D VR headsets on pretending they're at the game.



This is a joke

March 24, 2017, 02:40:10 PM
Reply #1520
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Ramjam


From a business perspective, being at full capacity creates a scarcity that enables them to justify them raising prices too.

We as fans shouldn't be encouraging a smaller stadium because we're scared of being mocked about a few empty seats.

I appreciate the upkeep argument that @Makis has put forth, but I don't think it takes into account hospitality and corporate seating in to account. An increase in overall capacity would also allow an increase in premium seating which should easily offset general operating costs.

Personally, I think that given the city's proposed growth around that area, that premium seating at a city centre location would be very desirable. Everton have always very strong walk up numbers anyway, but additional capacity would help to encourage tourists who'll spend s lot of money in club shops. That's all before the general fact that a new stadium almost always results in a general overall increase in attendance anyway.

I agree with your post, West Ham are filling their new stadium with 57 thousand every week and they are a shit team with less popularity than Everton so I would hope to see a 60 thousand seater on the Mersey and we will go close to filling it every week especially if we can keep the team strong and playing well
WE ARE THE PEOPLE


March 24, 2017, 02:41:01 PM
Reply #1521
Online

Bluedylan


Where has that 14m figure come from? I saw it mentioned on another board but surprised it's that low. (Arsenal's, in comparison, was about 30m.)

I'm as far from a financial expert as anyone, and it's possible I've got the wrong end of the stick totally, but as I understand it the club would pay approximately 10m a year to whoever the funding party are, and 4.4m a year to the council as guarantor. If I'm totally wrong, and anyone wants to correct me, apologies and feel free to set me straight.
''In the words of the prophet, today you sell your ring, tomorrow your watch, next week your chain and in 77 days, you won't have eyes to cry with''

Accattone - Pier Paolo Pasolini.

March 24, 2017, 02:55:28 PM
Reply #1522
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Goaljira

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I agree with your post, West Ham are filling their new stadium with 57 thousand every week and they are a shit team with less popularity than Everton so I would hope to see a 60 thousand seater on the Mersey and we will go close to filling it every week especially if we can keep the team strong and playing well

There's a difference between West Ham announcing their filling it every week and them actually filling it.  Lots of their STs are on special discounts or BOGOF type deals and people just aren't being arsed to turn up for half the games.

March 24, 2017, 03:07:34 PM
Reply #1523
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Ramjam


There's a difference between West Ham announcing their filling it every week and them actually filling it.  Lots of their STs are on special discounts or BOGOF type deals and people just aren't being arsed to turn up for half the games.

There you go, I didn't know that
WE ARE THE PEOPLE

March 24, 2017, 03:10:02 PM
Reply #1524
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74Blue


In terms of the 4.4m that will be paid to LCC over the next 40 years, could that not be "dressed up" or "written off" somehow as some sort of EITC contribution to the city for regeneration projects? That would be a win-win situation, as the already very highly acclaimed EITC would gain another feather in the cap for work that they are doing to benefit the local area, and the council gain 4.4m a year from a benefactor, to fund some of the necessary regeneration works around the city.
The club's stance all along has been that they are not going to just simply walk away from L4 and leave the area to rot. The club have already invested in a Free school there, along with some other local community projects, a couple of houses IIRC. If they are "investing" a further 4.4m a year into the city coffers for the next years, they could put some real positive spin into the whole arrangement, if they use their imagination a little.
I'm not saying that this is exactly how it will be, I'm just chucking some thoughts into the mix that could make this whole arrangement look so much more positive from both a commercial & PR POV.

March 24, 2017, 03:13:08 PM
Reply #1525
Online

Bluedylan


50k isn't set in stone is it, I don't think. The Echo says that 'initial high-level studies' have been based upon a 50k capacity for the proposal that has been submitted to the council. But the club have said that they will consult with fan groups (and others) in the design/planning phase (now), so hopefully there's a lot of flexibility with the capacity. It might also be that the club has decided to work from a conservative estimate for the initial proposals.

Personally, listening to the few brief comments Moshiri has made, listening to what others have said about him who know him, and judging by the extent of his actions in just one year, I don't see Moshiri settling for a 50,000 capacity at all. He got shut of Martinez, paid him out of his very expensive contract, brought Koeman in on big wedge, has paid off the club's debts, secured a big naming rights deal for the training ground, and has set in place the process of building a new ground. All in 12 months. He's not even the owner yet. All speculation on my part like, but it'll be more than 50,000.

I still can't get over the Finch Farm naming rights deal. I mean seriously who gives a fuck about sponsoring a training ground? How many clubs even have their training grounds with naming rights deals? If he can secure a deal like that, imagine, with his connections and ability to create innovative revenue streams, what could be conceived of for a brand, spanking new ground in an iconic location.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 03:22:09 PM by Bluedylan »
''In the words of the prophet, today you sell your ring, tomorrow your watch, next week your chain and in 77 days, you won't have eyes to cry with''

Accattone - Pier Paolo Pasolini.

March 24, 2017, 03:17:23 PM
Reply #1526
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Toddacelli


https://twitter.com/AHunterGuardian/status/845002009430429696

Loved reading this in the article - "Everton had to agree a financial deal with Peel Holdings for Bramley Moore dock, which, as the name would suggest, is inconveniently filled with water. Suitable for Bob Latchford but no one else."

:)
    

I'm only here for the cladding/Bramley Moore Dock updates

March 24, 2017, 03:24:17 PM
Reply #1527
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Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
I like the idea that was floated in here of releasing tickets by location.
Save the 'walk ups' until the rest have sold out, put them in the gods/out of the view fo the cameras and ensure everything is priced correctly and it shouldnt be a problem.

We simply wouldn't fill a 60k seater enough times to make it worthwhile.
50k is probably about right and i reckon we would get average attendences of around 47-48k myself.
But i'd like to see a 55k (with the above ticketing procedures) with easily expandable sections to ensure we are not "trapped"


The only other thing though is the "new stadium bounce". I haven't had a season ticket since my eldest was born 5 years ago. I'll be getting one again for the 1st season here.
If the traditional tailing off of this bounce (approx 3 years) coincides with a sustained attack on silverware, then that could carry through and average attendences could well stay above 50k

March 24, 2017, 03:27:18 PM
Reply #1528
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TheRam

NSNO Subscriber
50k isn't set in stone is it, I don't think. The Echo says that 'initial high-level studies' have been based upon a 50k capacity for the proposal that has been submitted to the council. But the club have said that they will consult with fan groups (and others) in the design/planning phase (now), so hopefully there's a lot of flexibility with the capacity. It might also be that the club has decided to work from a conservative estimate for the initial proposals.

Personally, listening to the few brief comments Moshiri has made, listening to what others have said about him who know him, and judging by the extent of his actions in just one year, I don't see Moshiri settling for a 50,000 capacity at all. He got shut of Martinez, paid him out of his very expensive contract, brought Koeman in on big wedge, has paid off the club's debts, secured a big naming rights deal for the training ground, and has set in place the process of building a new ground. All in 12 months. He's not even the owner yet. All speculation on my part like, but it'll be more than 50,000.

I still can't get over the Finch Farm naming rights deal. I mean seriously who gives a fuck about sponsoring a training ground? How many clubs even have their training grounds with naming rights deals? If he can secure a deal like that, imagine, with his connections and ability to create innovative revenue streams, what could be conceived of for a brand, spanking new ground in an iconic location.

I hope so.

It would put a real downer on things if it was only 50k, even with potential expansion.

I'd go balls out and get 60k as the starting point. A couple of thousand empty seats wont make a difference
Hey there mister can you tell me what happened to the seeds I've sown
Can you give me a reason sir as to why they've never grown

March 24, 2017, 03:32:15 PM
Reply #1529
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School of Science


Absolutely made up with the news yesterday and the move can't come quick enough for me, even though Goodison did look really nice when I attended the WBA match. Even took some photos of it. But to look forward I think we would have no troubles filling a new 55'000 seater stadium, so that in my opinion should be the baseline capacity, with options to extend if necessary. We have to think big if we want to join the big 4, Champions league elite.
Everton premier league champions 2014 / 15