October 21, 2019, 08:03:30 PM

Author Topic: [News]Bramley Moore Dock update  (Read 473830 times)

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December 21, 2018, 12:16:37 AM
Reply #4155
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bluenuck


spurs

They did up the wage bill though.

That's still ongoing and we will see the effects come next month and this summer.


December 21, 2018, 12:19:40 AM
Reply #4156
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Martip


Interesting Q but has any prem club managed to build a new stadium *Without* it impacting their transfers and or league form?
This is an interesting one brap. Spurs obviously springs to mind but you could argue that they may have been even closer to city and Liverpool if further investment had not been impacted.


December 21, 2018, 12:20:06 AM
Reply #4157
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D15TIN


After thinking about it 52 to start off might be sensible, probably easier to gain planning permission, and then it's up to fans to come and fill it, and if we do over a good period of time, they'll want to increase the capacity anyway


December 21, 2018, 12:20:55 AM
Reply #4158
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Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
OK.

So, some number crunching using some Esk-level assumptions.

At the moment, surveys suggest our average season ticket holder pays 」27.05 per match and we haev 32k of them.
Our average ticket costs 」42 and we sell between 3&4k of them (not going to take into account away fans for this. So 35-36k is what we sell out now).
And take the 10k waiting list at face value (even though a fair few of the 3-4k general sales are probably people on that list).

Now that equates to 」18.8-」19.6 million per annum.

BM @ 52k. So 42k season ticket holders, 5-6k general sale, the rest away fans. (Which i feel is a big ask after the new season bounce):
」25.5-」26.6m per annum

BM @ 62K. 42k season ticket holders & 15-16k general sale (no chance in my eyes):
」33.5-34.3m per annum


So, we're looking at as little as 」6.9m per year difference for that extra 10k seats.
Never mind that being an almost irrelevant number in todays football world - the respect increase in build cost for them extra 10k seats means it would take multiple years to pay off anyway.

December 21, 2018, 12:27:55 AM
Reply #4159
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Simon Paul

Administrator
Roger Armstrong has thrown it in over the capacity.

December 21, 2018, 12:28:25 AM
Reply #4160
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Ross


Because 10k empty seats wont help us catch the clubs above us either.
Stadium generated income is less and less relevant nowadays anyway.

make no mistake, they will have crunched the fuck out of the numbers and 52k will have come out as the number that maximises - to the penny - our profitibility.

I知 not advocating 60k and empty seats.

I知 saying all the forward thinking clubs in the country are aiming for stadia that facilitates those sort of numbers and all the amenities they entail. For the past two and half years we致e been hearing about how we need to bridge this divide, well part of that is portraying ourselves as as close to equals to them off the pitch as possible. This still leaves us lagging massively behind and who knows where these other clubs will be in 4/5 years when we get into BMD.

Even Wolves, a club just up from years in the championship, are planning to have a 50k+capacity stadium soon.




There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.


December 21, 2018, 12:28:56 AM
Reply #4161
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Martip


OK.

So, some number crunching using some Esk-level assumptions.

At the moment, surveys suggest our average season ticket holder pays 」27.05 per match and we haev 32k of them.
Our average ticket costs 」42 and we sell between 3&4k of them (not going to take into account away fans for this. So 35-36k is what we sell out now).
And take the 10k waiting list at face value (even though a fair few of the 3-4k general sales are probably people on that list).

Now that equates to 」18.8-」19.6 million per annum.

BM @ 52k. So 42k season ticket holders, 5-6k general sale, the rest away fans. (Which i feel is a big ask after the new season bounce):
」25.5-」26.6m per annum

BM @ 62K. 42k season ticket holders & 15-16k general sale (no chance in my eyes):
」33.5-34.3m per annum


So, we're looking at as little as 」6.9m per year difference for that extra 10k seats.
Never mind that being an almost irrelevant number in todays football world - the respect increase in build cost for them extra 10k seats means it would take multiple years to pay off anyway.
Why did you have to go and ruin my rant by speaking sense ? Thing is I know what your saying is probs right but I d love a 60k plus beast.

Out of interest I assume those figures are ticket costs alone and not average spend ? If you factor in match day spend which would only increase by better facilities surely it paints a different picture ?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 12:34:24 AM by Martip »

December 21, 2018, 12:29:23 AM
Reply #4162
Online

Macca77



December 21, 2018, 12:37:16 AM
Reply #4163
Offline

van der Meyde


I知 not advocating 60k and empty seats.

I知 saying all the forward thinking clubs in the country are aiming for stadia that facilitates those sort of numbers and all the amenities they entail. For the past two and half years we致e been hearing about how we need to bridge this divide, well part of that is portraying ourselves as as close to equals to them off the pitch as possible. This still leaves us lagging massively behind and who knows where these other clubs will be in 4/5 years when we get into BMD.

Even Wolves, a club just up from years in the championship, are planning to have a 50k+capacity stadium soon.





I've been told by someone pretty close to this that once you go over 52k, the costs increase exponentially. Not just on a structural level with the stadium, but the work (and negotiations with eg HE) needed to be done to disperse 52k becomes much more difficult too.

It's a case of a 52k seater there or having to do it elsewhere. The club think the profile of that site is worth it. Though for what it's worth, I'm told there's an opportunity to increase capacity a bit with safe standing.
...

December 21, 2018, 12:41:20 AM
Reply #4164
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Simon Paul

Administrator
I'm not advocating 60k and empty seats.

I'm saying all the forward thinking clubs in the country are aiming for stadia that facilitates those sort of numbers and all the amenities they entail. For the past two and half years we've been hearing about how we need to bridge this divide, well part of that is portraying ourselves as as close to equals to them off the pitch as possible. This still leaves us lagging massively behind and who knows where these other clubs will be in 4/5 years when we get into BMD.

Even Wolves, a club just up from years in the championship, are planning to have a 50k+capacity stadium soon.
Wolves plans have been in place for at least a decade and are actually overdue thanks to their previous relegation. The stadium is done while they are a Premier League club. Development stops when they are relegated.

They have the benefit of being a one club town too.

December 21, 2018, 12:42:40 AM
Reply #4165
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Martip


I've been told by someone pretty close to this that once you go over 52k, the costs increase exponentially. Not just on a structural level with the stadium, but the work (and negotiations with eg HE) needed to be done to disperse 52k becomes much more difficult too.

It's a case of a 52k seater there or having to do it elsewhere. The club think the profile of that site is worth it. Though for what it's worth, I'm told there's an opportunity to increase capacity a bit with safe standing.
It's be very interesting to see build cost per seat and how it increases over the 52k.

December 21, 2018, 12:48:45 AM
Reply #4166
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Makis


So, we're looking at as little as 」6.9m per year difference for that extra 10k seats.
Never mind that being an almost irrelevant number in todays football world - the respect increase in build cost for them extra 10k seats means it would take multiple years to pay off anyway.
Yep. Assuming every game was sold out it would take something like 20 years to get the money back on those 10,000 seats.

December 21, 2018, 12:50:16 AM
Reply #4167
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Gash

Global Moderator
I知 not advocating 60k and empty seats.

I知 saying all the forward thinking clubs in the country are aiming for stadia that facilitates those sort of numbers and all the amenities they entail. For the past two and half years we致e been hearing about how we need to bridge this divide, well part of that is portraying ourselves as as close to equals to them off the pitch as possible. This still leaves us lagging massively behind and who knows where these other clubs will be in 4/5 years when we get into BMD.

Even Wolves, a club just up from years in the championship, are planning to have a 50k+capacity stadium soon.

Who cares what other clubs capacity's are, it's not a competition to see who can have the biggest stadium? You only need to look at Arsenal and Man City as prime examples of successful big clubs that look awful on a matchday when there's thousands of empty seats. We could build 100k seater stadium, there's not point if it's only going to be half full.

The club haven't just picked a number our of thin air, they'll have done proper research into it, gathered lots of data and looked into how much other clubs get an increase when they move, whether there's a spike and then a drop off after it. They're not just going to build a bigger stadium just because some blokes on the internet wanted more seats so that we're as big as other stadiums. Affordability will have come into it too, build a state of the art 52k stadium on budget or build a 62k stadium, end up going over budget and have to cut corners and then affecting our spending on the pitch. Spurs, the apparent benchmark club financially have gone over budget, had to borrow more and are now 4 months late in getting into their stadium and no date yet to start using it and have rarely hit 60k at Wembley even before a capacity limit was set.

There's no point quoting other clubs capacity when most of the clubs with bigger stadiums have been successful recently and still can't fill them.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 12:53:34 AM by Gash »

December 21, 2018, 12:52:52 AM
Reply #4168
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Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
Matchday spend would alter those figures @Martip and are definitely part of the thinking. But again, based on other revenue streams, it's low on the list of priorities.

Worth pointing out again. There is zero chance of more people being allowed into a standing section than the same square metered seating section. Capacity won't rise with standing.

December 21, 2018, 12:55:55 AM
Reply #4169
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Goaljira

NSNO Subscriber
Who cares what other clubs capacity's are, it's not a competition to see who can have the biggest stadium? You only need to look at Arsenal and Man City as prime examples of successful big clubs that look awful on a matchday when there's thousands of empty seats. We could build 100k seater stadium, there's not point if it's only going to be half full.

The club haven't just picked a number our of thin air, they'll have done proper research into it, gathered lots of data and looked into how much other clubs get an increase when they move, whether there's a spike and then a drop off after it. They're not just going to build a bigger stadium just because some blokes on the internet wanted more seats so that we're as big as other stadiums. Affordability will have come into it too, build a state of the art 52k stadium on budget or build a 62k stadium, end up going over budget and have to cut corners and then affecting our spending on the pitch. Spurs, the apparent benchmark club financially have gone over budget, had to borrow more and are now 4 months late in getting into their stadium and no date yet to start using it and have rarely hit 60k at Wembley even before a capacity limit was set.

There's no point quoting other clubs capacity when most of the clubs with bigger stadiums have been successful recently and still can't fill them.

This exactly.  I'd rather a number that was right for us and didnt compromise on the design than be arsed having 50 more seats than liverpool or newcastle.