October 24, 2018, 01:01:33 AM

Poll

What should we do? (RESET 29 SEPTEMBER, AFTER LIMASSOL GAME)

Fire him now before our season goes tits up
Give him till Christmas.. If performances and results aren't where they should be for what he's spent, he's out
Let's just see how things are at the end of the season
The season has barely begun, he's a great manager and we should get 100% behind him
Ohhh Davey Moyes, Davey Davey Davey Moyes...
Fuck off with your polls, you cunt

Author Topic: Should we sack Koeman?  (Read 105976 times)

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October 22, 2017, 12:41:45 AM
Reply #15
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Ridge


Young players can often make the transition surprisingly well, it's the same game, same tactics, same man management. Just bigger crowds, more pressure and more experienced opponents. To me, it makes more sense than appointing a number 2 like Phelan or Shakespeare. It's not a change of stroke, so much as moving to deeper water.

Guardiola at Barca, Zidane at Real, they didn't have to leave to get a chance. It's not that common, especially not in PL, but if you put in the development, they impress with youth team and know the players coming through, it can be a smooth transition, and someone unafraid of trying the youngsters they've got to know and trust.

Unsworth knows the club, knows the young players and it wouldn't be a bad thing if other managers underestimated him or don't know what to expect.


October 22, 2017, 07:53:14 AM
Reply #16
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Ridge


Walter Smith got Rangers to win a lot as well.

If our under 23s were that much better than competition, it would make more sense.

Not sure when Koeman has ever achieved above expectation. He had success with Ajax and PSV over a decade ago. But Ajax went pear shaped and PSV nearly threw away title and then went pear shaped.

8 jobs, half of those only lasted about a season or less, before wheels came off. If he didn't have great playing career, I don't think anyone would rate highly.

October 22, 2017, 10:40:52 PM
Reply #17
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Ridge


People tend to get sadistic when angry or scared, or hypersensitive when upset


October 22, 2017, 11:54:17 PM
Reply #18
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Ridge


He'll be gone this evening

October 23, 2017, 04:15:47 AM
Reply #19
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Ridge


It's calculated risks though, Arteta would be madness.

October 23, 2017, 04:42:47 PM
Reply #20
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Ridge


Rest of Koeman's contract is probably about 12m. Koeman framed it as bad acquisitions, 240m is a lot to spend on players to not have an obvious creative player or goalscorer. If Moshiri and Kenwright are thinking Walsh hasn't done a great job, then you have more of a decision on face of it, do you get rid of both?

There is similarity to other clubs who have made wholesale changes to first team. Manager struggles to identify best team and ends up rotating without much of an idea what's going on, who to play where. Players show the ambiguity, play without a direction or knowing who is supposed to do what. But also he feels like he needs to try all the players and doesn't give any of them a stabilised presence in the team or much direction.

Koeman hasn't coped with extra fixtures, he's complained about the early pre season and fatigue, but players just look unorganised, he's the one showing fatigue. It does cut down preparation time and recovery time by half, you need almost 2 different sides, but you need to know your best one. If it's coaching that needs to go into some of the new signings, it shows a lack of guidance from manager.


October 23, 2017, 04:56:16 PM
Reply #21
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Ridge


Martinez had built his team, Lukaku and Stones got too phenomenal, it lead to arrogance that wasn't healthy. But also Martinez had planned long term, he'd played younger players and made them central, sold for a very handsome profit in that summer. Martinez signings and ambition, helped attract Moshiri in the first place. While Kenwright took a lot of flak for not selling the club, I'm not sure Moyes ever did as good a job as selling the club as Martinez did. It's not what fans care about, but commercially we became much more trendy. We were great to watch at times, and we'd rock up and have a go at anyone, it just became suicidal.

The uplift in ambition was palpable to the point that we wanted him to lose later round cup games and home form became toxic. The wheels came off and he had to go, but he made some serious impacts in terms of youth development and signing some major young talent, but also developing it. Lukaku wasn't always great, Stones and Barkley were youngsters who weren't that obviously good.

He didn't have the resources Koeman has got, and he never made any excuses, I'm not sure Koeman thinks his farts smell.

October 23, 2017, 05:26:45 PM
Reply #22
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Ridge


He did, you know. At one point I remember him blaming the grass for being too sticky.

Not a player though, to the media he never criticised anyone. Not Mirallas for grabbing the ball off Baines, not Stones for playing chicken in the 6 yard box, not Rom for generally not looking that bothered some days. I think he genuinely lost the dressing room in a way that Koeman hasn't, but we couldn't defend under Martinez, under Koeman we can't attack or defend or pass, apart from that we're solid.

October 23, 2017, 05:30:16 PM
Reply #23
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Ridge


We went through the he's turned everyone to shit a little over a year ago. I think there are some fairly easy choices, but they take some decisiveness and a new direction. One manager is going to see it one way and find it difficult to change perspective. Our squad has much more talent than any previous manager inherited. And we have far more money and new stadium on way, mad bills to pay, good youngsters, facilities etc. It's a fairly major issue we can't attack or defend, but squad is good enough and we aren't technically out of any competitions yet, although it looks like league cup is looking foregone conclusion if he's in charge.

October 23, 2017, 07:07:14 PM
Reply #24
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Ridge


About a decade ago, but his time at Valencia seems relevant, we even have the Ever Banega situation with Rooney.  :titanic:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport

October 23, 2017, 07:12:46 PM
Reply #25
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Ridge


I think if we reset the poll now, we'd be looking at well over 90% sack him, and I think there has been plenty of patience and hope he would turn it round, it's not just anger, it's despair.

Maybe we should tell Jim White to pass the message on to Moshiri to sack him.  :snigger: