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Author Topic: Moshiri  (Read 48306 times)

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November 02, 2017, 01:21:37 AM
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We have had a few threads on Koeman, on Walsh as to addressing problems in terms of the team.

When Koeman was struggling he was blaming the recruitment and I think most see his point in terms of balance. With Walsh I think there are questions about some of the players and the maybe the fees, but we had to do a lot of business very quickly. Not only replacing key players, european fixtures, but with increased ambition and pockets. People knew Lukaku was going and we had money, there was no way to get around that, and Moshiri always talked about spending big, probably getting a bit ahead of things in terms of expectations.

But I'm starting to strongly suspect Sigurdsson is actually Moshiri's 'special' player. Walsh and Koeman rate him, but neither seems to want to own him and he has played a bit like an outcast. It ended up at the sort of figure I think someone higher up had to love.
Both Walsh and Koeman would have had a hard job convincing people to spend that sort of money or for what purpose.

For Walsh, that's not going to make a profit, and he doesn't really fit the mould of what Koeman wanted. I think it was a case that no one else was going to question the wisdom of the person in charge, that fits Moshiri better than anyone else given circumstances. It's clearly not the right tool for the job, its not a prudent investment and Koeman specifically said he had no creativity, I took that as a direct or indirect swipe at Sigurdsson given his assists.

Koeman had to go and I think that it was clear that Moshiri was one of the last few to believe it was going to work. But Unsworth was not really on his radar of interest, he wants someone with the results on paper, the excitement for the fans. But he's not given any encouragement or support to Unsworth, and seems to have already excluded in his mind. To be undermining after a couple of games is stupid.

Change direction decisively and don't panic when you've only just changed. If you give Unsworth 4 games, back him for the duration and don't undermine him. If you want to ensure survival, we could give Unsworth period to get team playing to introduce youngsters and give a new manager the start of a team. But put him under the knife from the off and what are you expecting? I can understand he wants control and authority and sees his project slipping down the pan, but I think we are in danger of getting a rotating deck chairs on titanic scenario. Lots of people want to settle for security early, but we have time and players to get out of this, but we need to build a bit of continuity.

I'm really not keen on the gossiping to Jim White, it's like he has a better idea or role than he needs. Sanchez, by all means break the bank for, but do we need to embarrass ourselves pleading for his affection, not long after the window has closed. He's not our player, he's a key player at a bigger club, it's embarrassing.

Chairmen are supposed to oversee, not to interfere and distract. There just seems too much desire to be the centre of attention in a way that even Kenwright appreciated he shouldn't. Say what you want about Kenwright, he knew his time to shine and when it was time to reflect or support a manager rather than scramble everything through anxiety and fear.

November 02, 2017, 01:29:16 AM
Reply #1


And to be clear this is more intended as an observation or critique than a call to oust him or build resentment.

I know some will take exception to Kenwright being put in a favourable light. And I have huge appreciation for the direction the club is going under Moshiri with the new stadium and investing in the things we already did well to take them to another stage.

I just worry that some of the good work is getting undermined out of panic. Think he just needs to calm his shit down and we had lots more of these sorts of problems in Kenwright's early days. It's not all stuff you intuitively know, sometimes you want fans to know you want better, that you're trying your hardest, but sometimes you have to stand in the way of the turds being flung, not deflect them internally.

November 02, 2017, 06:44:58 AM
Reply #2


A manager will always want more options, Koeman and Walsh were both very keen on Sigurdsson. It's Koeman's responsibility to welcome him and look delighted to press, I'm not saying others weren't interested, but someone is taking authority on that price tag.  It limited our ability in terms of offers and options, later in the window. Someone wouldn't  take no for an answer and we had to pull plug on more important positions we were still trying to fill. Obviously Giroud and Costa didn't happen, we got Vlasic who fell in our lap, but needs time.

Just wonder if some interference from above might make sense of the confusion, in terms of forcing Walsh or Koeman to adjust plans. We had been hoping for a premium option to open up and didn't directly replace Barkley's creativity or Lukaku's goals, 50m on Sigurdsson gives us a set piece taker. What if Kenwright sorted Rooney, Koeman wanted Klaassen and Walsh or Moshiri wanted Sigurdsson anyway. I'm just struggling to understand how you end up with 3 number 10s, but no dribblers or passers, no real dynamic creative player or direct goal threat.

Sigurdsson does fit the pattern of some of the older signings under Walsh. Bolasie cost what seemed a lot, Williams was reasonably expensive for his age and a strange buy when we had Jags, but experienced important players for teams lower in PL. We had a lack of creative players when Bolasie got injured and then Barkley, we knew both had injuries. Vlasic, Lookman look potential but haven't really been given much time and DCL, Sandro have looked like potential longer terms solutions up front.

My concern is that Moshiri is thinking that money spent is still good and another manager has a champions league team on their hands. In current climate 7th would be good for Everton. We could utilise Keane and play more like Burnley, set pieces from Sigurdsson, lump and run, faster players up top and play basketball. To grind out draws, clean sheets, nick the odd win and get some momentum. But I don't see fans being happy and I don't see Moshiri being happy with that compromise, not yet.

It's trying to get blood from a stone, given what we have. Any expansive manager is going to face similar limitations in terms of slow unfamiliar or aging centre back pairing, full backs not that productive or athletic, no creative player and no proven goalscorer. The only way around it is playing the players we have into a team and into form. His recent words and actions are starting to make me think he could be backseat driving or causing unnecessary issues with unrealistic expectations and pressure.

I also wouldn't rule out Barton talking to Jim White about Unsworth having effect on Moshiri. He seems to listen and rate topics on talksport or sky as worthy of response or reaction. I could see him going for a trendy name who's had time and support elsewhere and expect instant changes, or hire a short term firefighter on a short contract who has no major incentive to build, just squeezing the turd.

November 03, 2017, 08:15:30 AM
Reply #3


What I'm not happy with is the organisational structure. We have a DOF whose role is unclear to everyone. We have Elstone as CEO and who has just been appointed to the Board. How does that work? If Elstone is underperforming he is part of the structure that decides whether or not he is terminated? Where is the accountability?

If Moshiri is responsible for those changes, I don't see our apparent commercial success lasting very long.

What on earth is Elstone to do with this? Never understood why people don't like him, when they don't appear to know what he is responsible for. I'm sure there's thousand of people blaming BK for this somehow

November 03, 2017, 08:57:00 AM
Reply #4


To try and clarify my position as I think some people misinterpreted what was intended. My point with Moshiri, is that I think he's a bit too celebrity football conscious and he's starting to doubt everything he's put in place as well. He doesn't want to spend 100m+ to go from europe to relegation fight and out of all competitions by end of October. But he needs to understand the context, that the cohesion and quality of the players is not going to arrive overnight. It was just that Sigurdsson in particular seems like a folly for someone.

My worry is that rather than settling things down and acting calmly, I get an worrying impression that Moshiri is thinking about appointing someone like Allardyce to keep us up. I wouldn't be surprised if that also signalled him scaling back in his ambitions for the club and general disinterest from fans. People can talk about him keeping teams up, but they weren't clubs with as much pride. At Newcastle he was never taken in by fans and was sacked in 6 months, I would expect less time here and then relegation is real threat.

Problem has not just been about transfers, it's the squad turnover, lack of cohesion, degredation and collapse of the team and no growth of a new one. That was all pretty much Koeman, as the team got worse, it was no longer just the players fault, it became the person who bought the players fault, and we're left with the fallout of a manager saying no one is good enough as he ran it into the ground and took out anger.

Koeman was the turd in the punch bowl for me, I can understand why Walsh shoulders blame for unbalanced transfer policy. But no one who knew him, wanted to play for Koeman, we saw that with incomings and outgoings. Walsh is working with a managers specifications in mind and manager has enough authority to be more central to direction of transfer policy. I just think Koeman is not someone players want to play for. maybe lazy in terms of input to recruitment, unrealistic or indecisive.

If your club is spending that sort of money, you can get what you want as a manager, you can specify requirements and resolve at the time. There was a decent team there, but there is not a player now who played for Koeman, who doesn't have crisis of confidence and form. People are human and it's going to take time to build them back up and undo the curse. Fans love managers who come out and tear into the players, let them know what's expected, waterboarding is too good for them. But when it ends up being the entire squad, you're no longer uniting by division, you're just dividing everyone against everyone else.

It's always much easier to bring players down to earth and than build them up. Subsequently you get a quicker turnaround when you just need some structure, discipline and focus, rather than heart and belief. But the new players need some support, regardless what the manager gives them, it's going to be a gradual process. Players will settle and adapt, and I think once we score a couple and win a game, the blockage will leak and the fear and anxiety subside and then we'll start playing better and see the best of the players we've got.

First summer we didn't attract any real elite players, but they'd only just walked in to new setup. This summer we had more time to prepare to plan, and got players from the levels we were looking at and spent heavily. Lookman looks like he's maturing into a first team player, DCL could probably do with a holiday and someone else to take the abuse for standing isolated without service. We'll see other talent emerge from Walsh's signings in due course. We have enough quality in the squad to expect things to improve, if we get behind team and manager, it will give time for things to settle and build. Now we are out of europe and cup, I expect to see improving performances in PL. We've played as many games now as most clubs play by christmas in normal year without europe.

November 03, 2017, 09:15:54 AM
Reply #5


My mistake, you're right. Elstone is a saint and BK is a cherub.

Of course you have to be at one end of the scale.

November 08, 2017, 08:04:52 PM
Reply #6


There is a lot of 'leave Britney alone' in this thread

November 09, 2017, 04:38:08 AM
Reply #7


Just looking for quotes, facts, and sources for how people are forming an opinion, or for the stories they're telling like reply #7.

Don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Still looking for where he got that from.

I think it's a better place if most opinions are left open, especially when there is limited info. There are a few people who will disagree like they are judge on a panel show, without either engaging the point itself or providing any evidence that contradicts.

It's all well and good shouting for evidence, provide some. If there is none then it's all opinions anyway, so why are some so adamant in first place.

Wasn't specifically aim at yourself or anyone in particular, just seemed a lot of dramatic offence. Understanding things is the point, it can go into unpopular territory, but sometimes its the truth that's the most unpopular.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 04:40:56 AM by Ridge »

November 09, 2017, 04:50:29 AM
Reply #8



Do you mean a different number? otherwise not sure what set of eyes you're reading it with to see that as fact.

November 12, 2017, 09:36:25 PM
Reply #9


It's a mental thing with Sissoko, he seems the type of player who just won't ever fulfill potential, he was great for France at Euro's. I think everyone thought, he's exceptional in very good France team, and shit for Newcastle. Maybe just needs to be in a better team and surrounded by better players to get most out of him.

He's certainly looked better more recently at Spurs and more hard working, but I'm not sure you'll ever get the fear out of him, or increase his determination by enough to make him a world beater, but he has the tools, if he could deploy them.

November 19, 2017, 01:04:01 AM
Reply #10


Same DoF problems several other clubs have had to be honest. When manager and DoF work together and in tandem, 2 heads are better than 1.

But when both are pulling in different directions and overstepping lines, you end up with conflict and confusion. Koeman's attack on Walsh also probably put Walsh on defensive and when he stayed, it probably endorsed and solidified his views. But this team is not value for money, even if most the players individually are. And if he's pushing behind his signings that he believes will come good, then maybe it does make some sense of some of the issues.

November 19, 2017, 01:13:31 AM
Reply #11


Fool me once and shame on you, fool me twice and .... you can't get fooled again.

I think Moshiri took Walsh's side over Koeman after much deliberation, as you're still left with players, you're choosing to believe the players are crap or manager is, and you can replace manager now and he'd still be left with players if you sacked DoF. But with problems still there post Koeman, I think Walsh's perspective on his dealing becomes increasingly questionable and so does his position.

November 24, 2017, 09:04:00 PM
Reply #12


That shareholding is enough to control anything, unless you have 1 other shareholder with rest.

Problem is that Moshiri is a puppet and nothing is being decided by him.

November 30, 2017, 03:55:22 AM
Reply #13


Do we need to panic into Allardyce appointment?

He's looking a bit worried next to Moshiri

March 02, 2018, 09:09:09 PM
Reply #14


I think it's hard to imagine how different we would be, if we were a laundromat.