October 23, 2018, 01:37:22 AM

Author Topic: [News]Allardyce: All I've done is made things easier  (Read 5447 times)

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December 21, 2017, 01:12:23 AM
Reply #60
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Bluedylan


You can play good football and overachieve beyond your budget (see Spurs). It's really not an either/or. Also, just to re-iterate, I'm not referring to tepid sideways passing when I say 'good football'. It's really not too much to ask to be able to pass the ball through midfield at the top level. You can do it with tempo and purpose.

Also, I think Guardiola is demonstrating that teams who play with the ball have a higher ceiling than those who play re-active football.

EDIT: This isn't me slagging Sam off, by the way. He's done fine and I'm not expecting miracles overnight. Just hoping to see signs of progression over the next few months.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 01:16:05 AM by Bluedylan »
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.


December 21, 2017, 01:25:27 AM
Reply #61
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Alanvideo


Not going to start a new thread for this but Rooney has made Sam's job a whole lot easier .........
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/dec/20/wayne-rooney-everton-resurgent-premier-league
We are special ,we are Everton.

December 21, 2017, 01:26:58 AM
Reply #62
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GLewis

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You can play good football and overachieve beyond your budget (see Spurs). It's really not an either/or. Also, just to re-iterate, I'm not referring to tepid sideways passing when I say 'good football'. It's really not too much to ask to be able to pass the ball through midfield at the top level. You can do it with tempo and purpose.

Also, I think Guardiola is demonstrating that teams who play with the ball have a higher ceiling than those who play re-active football.

EDIT: This isn't me slagging Sam off, by the way. He's done fine and I'm not expecting miracles overnight. Just hoping to see signs of progression over the next few months.

Re Guardiola (Id like at this point to rehash the pointless trivia that Guardiola means piggy bank in Catalan) you could say his recent failures in CL would point to a ceiling of total possession vs organisation and ruthless finishers.

Re direct football I’d also assume that the wastefulness ratio of hopeless wellies decreases with the quality of player and you end up with early Mourinho Chelsea etc. who weren’t bad teams and didn’t not control games.


December 21, 2017, 01:39:26 AM
Reply #63
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Bluedylan


Re Guardiola (Id like at this point to rehash the pointless trivia that Guardiola means piggy bank in Catalan) you could say his recent failures in CL would point to a ceiling of total possession vs organisation and ruthless finishers.

Re direct football I’d also assume that the wastefulness ratio of hopeless wellies decreases with the quality of player and you end up with early Mourinho Chelsea etc. who weren’t bad teams and didn’t not control games.

Guardiola's style doesn't guarantee you will win every match ever, like, especially in knockout tournaments. I'd still say the ceiling is higher personally, when it's done expertly. City's squad is good but it's not 16 wins in a row good. They have plenty of quality but in numerous positions they don't have the best players in the league, let alone Europe.

Also, if you had to pay to watch football or we're choosing to watch a game, anyone who prefers the perfect culmination of Mourinho's style over the equivalent of Guardiola's very best is frankly a bit odd or being deliberately contrarian (not aimed at you, btw).
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 21, 2017, 01:45:07 AM
Reply #64
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GrantyBoy78


I wouldnt say any player has been in form before or after Allardyce were appointed.
If this is Sams out of form tactics then it could be interesting even though I doubt it and agree with in the bigger picture.
Some people are just blind to their own agendas

December 21, 2017, 02:27:23 AM
Reply #65
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brap2

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You can play good football and overachieve beyond your budget (see Spurs). It's really not an either/or. Also, just to re-iterate, I'm not referring to tepid sideways passing when I say 'good football'. It's really not too much to ask to be able to pass the ball through midfield at the top level. You can do it with tempo and purpose.

Also, I think Guardiola is demonstrating that teams who play with the ball have a higher ceiling than those who play re-active football.

EDIT: This isn't me slagging Sam off, by the way. He's done fine and I'm not expecting miracles overnight. Just hoping to see signs of progression over the next few months.

They have done it a different way (spurs) in that why’ve always tried to play good football, but they definitely have spent money to get where they are.

Plus, they have two force multipliers in Poch and Kane, and before that they had one in Bale, so they’ve kind of been blessed or rewarded.

I too would like nice football. Just not sure what path we’re going to take to get it..
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.


December 21, 2017, 02:34:06 AM
Reply #66
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blue slug


I’m really interested in seeing what style we play if he gets players in he wants in January and the summer

December 21, 2017, 02:36:29 AM
Reply #67
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Ell Capitan

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Yeah. Spurs are also 7th in the league. Hopefully that's them back in their hole.

December 21, 2017, 02:41:32 AM
Reply #68
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Bluedylan


They have done it a different way (spurs) in that why’ve always tried to play good football, but they definitely have spent money to get where they are.

Plus, they have two force multipliers in Poch and Kane, and before that they had one in Bale, so they’ve kind of been blessed or rewarded.

I too would like nice football. Just not sure what path we’re going to take to get it..


Spurs' net spend from 2012 to 2017 is £1m. City's was £400m, Utd's £368m, Arsenal £205m, Chelsea £192m. No way should they be finishing 2nd and 3rd, if money equals league position. 
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

December 21, 2017, 02:44:37 AM
Reply #69
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blue slug


Spurs' net spend from 2012 to 2017 is £1m. City's was £400m, Utd's £368m, Arsenal £205m, Chelsea £192m. No way should they be finishing 2nd and 3rd, if money equals league position. 

Which it normally does with the exception of the anomaly of Leicester

December 21, 2017, 02:45:11 AM
Reply #70
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KoemansNumberTens


Spurs' net spend from 2012 to 2017 is £1m. City's was £400m, Utd's £368m, Arsenal £205m, Chelsea £192m. No way should they be finishing 2nd and 3rd, if money equals league position. 

No but it's not a style of play that's got them there it's getting fantastic value for money on players and Kane coming through their youth system


December 21, 2017, 03:18:18 AM
Reply #71
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brap2

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Spurs' net spend from 2012 to 2017 is £1m. City's was £400m, Utd's £368m, Arsenal £205m, Chelsea £192m. No way should they be finishing 2nd and 3rd, if money equals league position. 

That’s a fair point and we all know about levy’s negotiating skills and their wage cap.

Thinking about some of the players they’ve had though I do wonder if the wages in the prem have caught up with them rather than they’ve had a long standing cap.

Ah well fuck it, they’ve bought well and sold well and brought a few good players through, good on them.

I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

December 21, 2017, 03:18:23 AM
Reply #72
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Ell Capitan

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Spurs' net spend from 2012 to 2017 is £1m. City's was £400m, Utd's £368m, Arsenal £205m, Chelsea £192m. No way should they be finishing 2nd and 3rd, if money equals league position. 

Net spend is a misleading statistic that doesn't reflect how football clubs account for their spend or pay for players.

Far more important than that is your wage bill, of which Spurs comfortably have the sixth highest. Yes they've had two good seasons where they've finished much higher than you'd expect, but 4th-8th is their level based on spend, and that's more or less where they were before that. As I say, now they're back in 7th and long may it continue.

No doubt they've done very well and in particular have recently done better than you'd expect, but they're hardly confounding the rule that money talks in football. And, realistically, no one thinks Spurs will remain a title contending club, for that exact reason.

December 21, 2017, 03:21:35 AM
Reply #73
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Ell Capitan

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And, when all is said and done, what have Spurs even won these last 10 years? Fuck all. And 1 league cup in the decade before that.

Fuck Spurs. I fucking hate them.

December 21, 2017, 03:35:59 AM
Reply #74
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GLewis

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Guardiola's style doesn't guarantee you will win every match ever, like, especially in knockout tournaments. I'd still say the ceiling is higher personally, when it's done expertly. City's squad is good but it's not 16 wins in a row good. They have plenty of quality but in numerous positions they don't have the best players in the league, let alone Europe.

Also, if you had to pay to watch football or we're choosing to watch a game, anyone who prefers the perfect culmination of Mourinho's style over the equivalent of Guardiola's very best is frankly a bit odd or being deliberately contrarian (not aimed at you, btw).

I think that a lot of football enjoyment comes from the number of positive actions in the game.

It’s impossible to remember 90 mins of the game so you’re only going to take away 10-12 moments max.

Therefore the remaining 85 mins are largely irrelevant (see City at home last season).

I’d also say that Mourinho’s issues have been shutting games down early rather than the aesthetics of when the team was playing well. Certainly earlier in his career. He’d limit the memorable moments which makes things duller in the mind.