February 24, 2018, 12:29:25 PM

Poll

Koeman in?

Yes
24 (23.1%)
No
80 (76.9%)

Total Members Voted: 104

Author Topic: Should we have kept Koeman?  (Read 2932 times)

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January 15, 2018, 03:33:07 AM
Reply #45
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brap2

NSNO Subscriber
Def right to get rid of him ..he failed to deliver a striker, the 1 task he really had to deliver on, despite knowing long before the summer that Lukaku was off...
But maybe Walsh was responsible for that....

Honestly not playing Devils ad’ here, but that’s surely walsh’s fault.

Koeman couldn’t have been clearer - I hope business is not done because we need a left sided defender and a striker.

We didn’t get either.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.


January 15, 2018, 03:34:12 AM
Reply #46
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ajax_andy


Maybe we should appoint a new manager every game then


Would be better just to appoint a good one 😜

January 15, 2018, 05:50:19 AM
Reply #47
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toffee_scot


No we shouldn't have kept Koeman:

Koeman ultimately demonstrated that he didn't have a clue how to get a performance out of a squad made up of many of his own players. Some might say they were Steve Walsh signings but both individuals would have discussed transfer targets to suit Koeman's football (whatever the hell that was supposed to be) and Koeman pretty much sanctioned all the signings. Every signing that arrived, he explained why he was happy to bring them on board.

In many games, he kept chopping and changing the starting lineup which meant we went through many defensive lineup changes and some very strange rotation policy which meant very few of the players except for maybe Leighton Baines (who had zero competition for his position) and Jordan Pickford knew their role or value in the team. How the fuck we couldn't get a victory at home to a Cypriot team (not even the best one) is just unforgivable.

From what I understand, just before his last game against Arsenal, he was shouting instructions for the team to go "long ball". Apparently Moshiri said during the AGM that Koeman had to go because he couldn't get things to work. After investing about £150m in the squad that summer we found ourselves 18th by the end of October with no visible sign of improvement and a style of football which had been poor and uninspiring to watch even though Koeman said at the beginning of his tenure that it would take about 3 transfer windows for the "project" to really take shape.

As for @Shogun comment about whether Allardyce is a better manager: Relative to Koeman I would say at this moment in time for Everton...yes. Under Koeman we were 18th and with Allardyce, albeit with some fortune and help of other teams being extremely shit, we are 9th. However, I think we are in an extremely sad state of affairs that we find ourselves in this position where the board have been exposed for a lack of planning and direction, over a month's search and they end up going for the most uninspiring and unimaginative option available.

I've tried giving Allardyce the benefit of the doubt but this is the most anti-football side I have ever seen and I'm resigned to the fact that the football will continue to be atrocious. But despite this recent poor form, I expect that he will stabilise things and we won't see a huge drop into the relegation zone like we saw under Koeman.

From the sound of things, it sounds like Koeman is in no rush at all to get back to football management despite a few job offers and he said that being sacked from Everton was one of his biggest disappointments as a manager. I think the Everton experience might have severely dented his confidence and made him question his ability. He knew he was struggling to control this team despite so much investment put into it. He couldn't put it right, but with Allardyce I expect that he is someone who is much better equipped to deal with massive downturns in form like the one we are going through.

I might be asking too much but I just fucking hope that the top echelons of the club are analysing the situation and trying to come up with a proper long term solution so we get out of this firefighting mode once and for all.           


January 15, 2018, 07:17:13 AM
Reply #48
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Ridge


No, when a manager has lost his credibility it needs to be done, it's hard to clean the shit off yourself and get on with the job in a dignified manner, he looked a frazzled shell at the end. We had about 20 games in 3 months, and Unsworth still had to play 8 in 5 weeks. Koeman was trying to blend a squad made up of 1/3 players from last seasons, 1/3 new transfers and 1/3 younger players into teams playing in 3 separate competitions. It's not just juggling the different players and trying to find working solutions, but less time for each player to settle, develop or understand each other.

I think you have to respect that at Southampton, Koeman was able to deal with wholesale changes to the team each summer. They coped better than many expected. But add in european fixtures, I think the focus he put into Europa and the failure broke his spirit. We had similar examples with Moyes selling and then over achieving, finding ourselves near bottom of the league because of european fixtures and then picking up points when less games. But he didn't have a DoF breathing down his neck or the worst European league campaign by an English team from a position of high expectations and spending.

Koeman and Allardyce are pretty similar really, and it's a struggle to know who I like least. Koeman's sides tend to be more expansive and comfortable in possession, we would play across the back and look to work angles. It's not exactly fluid movement or free flowing, but under Allardyce when in good form, we seemingly choose to crawl back up our own arse against relegation candidates. Moyes and Koeman only did that at big clubs, against lesser clubs he'd try to dictate or have a plan how to attack, when he lost the ability to do so, Koeman gave up hope, Allardyce seems relatively nonplussed about how shit we are with the ball.

Conceding the initiative is all well and good, if you have some sort of cunning plans up your sleeve like Leicester did that one glorious season. When the next stage of the plan is lump a ball to an isolated front man to contest another pointless header, as the players independently stand around, its working like a charm but unsurprising not providing many goals or chances. Jagielka has been making forward runs in recent games, because he can see how little we've got going on up top.

January 15, 2018, 07:59:20 AM
Reply #49
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Tony Clifton


Should never have appointed him.  Martinez should have been given more time.

January 15, 2018, 08:20:22 AM
Reply #50
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kramer0


It's awful that there's even a debate to be had over whether sacking two (!!) clueless managers was a good idea.

I miss the days where I could laugh at clubs like QPR for doing embarrassing things with money. We're the joke now and it's not funny.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 08:26:19 AM by kramer0 »


January 15, 2018, 04:11:42 PM
Reply #51
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Lxxx


If Koeman had got his centre/left back and centre forward he'd still be in a job now. I also think with a dominant striker up top we would have got more out of Klaassan too. Koeman might have been a miserable fucker and always on the verge of not being arsed but he did understand football, having been one of the best in the world in said sport.

January 16, 2018, 09:10:34 PM
Reply #52
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BlueForYou


Yes - sacked him too soon, however:

Players didn't support him

Fans gave up on him

Board couldn't see the wood for the trees

Result: You end up with what you deserve and we deserve Allardyce

Happy?
"We don't need a badge - everybody knows those blue and white shirts..............Everton"

Harry Catterick

January 16, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
Reply #53
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Confucius

NSNO Subscriber
I like Sam, there something about him.

It's flies mate, there is always flies close to shit.
Farhad Moshiri, Alisher Usmanov, Cenk Tosun, Muhamed Besic, Idrissa Gana Gueye, Ademola Lookman, Oumar Niasse, David Henen, Barack Hussein Obama, Confucius... Everton Muslims growing stronger...

January 17, 2018, 12:58:25 AM
Reply #54
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Everton Mint


Its now at the point where any manager isnt going to transform us into a great team UNTIL Moshiri gets serious and spends a fortune on really top players.

But not only hasnt he spent big... we have replaced a £75m striker Lukaku with a £25m one.

That tells you everything.  We are going nowhere but backwards.

January 21, 2018, 07:30:03 PM
Reply #55
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Martip


Absolutely not despite this terrible run. I am struggling to find many positives at all with his scattergun signings and we are left with the fallout.

Pickford- done ok but paid too much
Williams -terrible
Martina - I won't even go there
Keane - terrible business at 30m
Morgan - horrible wage stealer
Bolasie - 28m show pony
Gilf - good player but at 45m terrible value
Rooney - done ok in terms of goals/impact but has impacted our game  by slowing the play down too much (as he had done at utd for years prior to signing)
Vlasic- knee jerk signing based on the game in the Europawhere we made him look good
Gana- really good value for money
Klassen- meant to be our Erikssen....turned out to be Eric the banan a man
Lookman- made no impact really

It's laughable how bad a job he and our DOF did together.

January 21, 2018, 07:35:02 PM
Reply #56
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Lxxx


Its now at the point where any manager isnt going to transform us into a great team UNTIL Moshiri gets serious and spends a fortune on really top players.

But not only hasnt he spent big... we have replaced a £75m striker Lukaku with a £25m one.

That tells you everything.  We are going nowhere but backwards.

Give it a rest man. We've just been piss poor in our recruitment and planning. We were never going to replace a £75m striker with a £75m striker but where we fell down is we wasted a lot of money on peripheral players without rebuilding a solid spine to the team.   

January 21, 2018, 07:38:45 PM
Reply #57
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Martip


Give it a rest man. We've just been piss poor in our recruitment and planning. We were never going to replace a £75m striker with a £75m striker but where we fell down is we wasted a lot of money on peripheral players without rebuilding a solid spine to the team.
Moshri has made funds available hasn't he.....his downfall has been the Muppets he's entrusted to spend it.

It's a valid point ref a 75m striker as anyone worth that much would currently not come to us as we are terrible.

January 21, 2018, 07:41:12 PM
Reply #58
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Ridge


A 7th placed team spending £180m, £70m net, and ending up looking like a team that deserves a relegation battle, the problem is not a lack of funds from owner.

January 21, 2018, 07:44:59 PM
Reply #59
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Rodenplav64


Definitely and we shouldn't have knee jerked into appointing Allardyce . You could name 10 Managers who wouldn't be good enough and they would all be better than Allardyce . That for me would include Hughes , Silva , McClaren , Hodgson , Puel , Van Gaal , Dyche , Rodgers without even trying too hard . Shambolic .