June 18, 2018, 06:58:58 PM

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Which would you prefer, if they were the only choices?

Author Topic: 7th and more Allardyce or 10th and a new manager?  (Read 5256 times)

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February 16, 2018, 04:54:47 PM
Reply #75
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AllyBlue14


7th for me. If the job were that easy, why were we in 19th when he agreed to join us?

We may have played some crap football and the bottom 14 of the league is pretty poor, but we were floundering and it was that run of games when he first joined that should see us staying up. And now we're maybe even pushing to finish 7th (not great from where we were last season but we did lose our 2 top scorers).

Yes, we're Everton and our ambitions should exceed Sam Allardyce, but that doesn't really mean anything when you haven't won anything for pushing 25 years. And reputation hasn't helped other fallen giants who are stuck in the Championship. Similarly, it didn't prevent us from falling to pretty much the bottom of the league.

Pisses me off that whatever happens, people will think he's done badly. It's the same sense of entitlement for which we hate other fans. I'm not saying I wouldn't rather bring in another manager with whom we can build a (positive) legacy for the next 10 years, but to downplay a top half finish and discredit Allardyce by saying any manager could have got us there is rewriting history.


February 16, 2018, 04:57:34 PM
Reply #76
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TheRam

NSNO Subscriber
7th for me. If the job were that easy, why were we in 19th when he agreed to join us?

We may have played some crap football and the bottom 14 of the league is pretty poor, but we were floundering and it was that run of games when he first joined that should see us staying up. And now we're maybe even pushing to finish 7th (not great from where we were last season but we did lose our 2 top scorers).

Yes, we're Everton and our ambitions should exceed Sam Allardyce, but that doesn't really mean anything when you haven't won anything for pushing 25 years. And reputation hasn't helped other fallen giants who are stuck in the Championship. Similarly, it didn't prevent us from falling to pretty much the bottom of the league.

Pisses me off that whatever happens, people will think he's done badly. It's the same sense of entitlement for which we hate other fans. I'm not saying I wouldn't rather bring in another manager with whom we can build a (positive) legacy for the next 10 years, but to downplay a top half finish and discredit Allardyce by saying any manager could have got us there is rewriting history.

We weren't 19th when he took over.

Now that's re-writing history for you.

We were never near bottom of the league before he took over and we infact in a pretty decent position when after Unsworth left.

February 16, 2018, 05:01:46 PM
Reply #77
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Macca77


I've said it before and I'll say it again, we were never in danger of going down, yes we were awful but any half decent manager would be able to do what Allardyce has done since he took over.

What we need is a quality manager to come in and start again from scratch, an ambitious manager who will help us close the gap on the top 6 then top 4 and not someone who is happy with mid table mediocrity


February 16, 2018, 05:07:29 PM
Reply #78
Online

gizzblue


It's the easiest relagation bonus he's never earned .... imho even Silva  attack no defence would have kept us safe .
I'm confident he will be gone at the end anyway ...as we will not get near seventh in reality ..too many lower league away games to shithouse at .
Tenth will do .


I must be a shit fan ... for wanting better in the long run and that ain't Sam's m.o. whatsoever.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 05:11:19 PM by gizzblue »

February 16, 2018, 05:12:46 PM
Reply #79
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Mick 1995

NSNO Subscriber
First red line is Koeman going
Second red line is between Unsworth's West Ham & Allardyce's first match.

Koeman was relegation form/zone, Unsworth got us to within a win of top half, Allardyce did that and has maintained 9th basically (despite that 6 game streak without a win)

February 16, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
Reply #80
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AllyBlue14


We weren't 19th when he took over.

Now that's re-writing history for you.

We were never near bottom of the league before he took over and we infact in a pretty decent position when after Unsworth left.

Ok, I think it was 19th before the Watford game.

It would appear we were 16th after the Southampton defeat - 2 points off the drop zone, 4 points off the bottom - when we brought in Allardyce (he was already in before the West Ham game). I can't remember when we announced it, but we started that match in 17th place. So not 19th, but I'd hardly say it's a decent position or not near the bottom.


February 16, 2018, 05:16:22 PM
Reply #81
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Macca77


Ok, I think it was 19th before the Watford game.

It would appear we were 16th after the Southampton defeat - 2 points off the drop zone, 4 points off the bottom - when we brought in Allardyce (he was already in before the West Ham game). I can't remember when we announced it, but we started that match in 17th place. So not 19th, but I'd hardly say it's a decent position or not near the bottom.

Unsworth was manager when we played West Ham, we were 13th when Allardyce took over
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 05:18:02 PM by Macca77 »

February 16, 2018, 05:17:42 PM
Reply #82
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plumber


Wow, another one who's missed the point.

Nah. The point is too big, simple and obvious to miss.

February 16, 2018, 05:18:31 PM
Reply #83
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Ross


Oh here we go again giving Allardyce praise for the West Ham game despite the rotund narcissist even admitting himself it was nothing to do with him and the fact he’d not taken a training season or picked the team or even signed a contract with the club.

Personally I prefer to give Unsworth credit for the Huddersfield result as Allardyce only had a day with the players prior to that and he didn’t even change the team Unsworth picked to destroy West Ham 3 days earlier. 
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.

February 16, 2018, 05:19:56 PM
Reply #84
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AllyBlue14


It's the easiest relagation bonus he's never earned .... imho even Silva  attack no defence would have kept us safe .
I'm confident he will be gone at the end anyway ...as we will not get near seventh in reality ..too many lower league away games to shithouse at .
Tenth will do .

I must be a shit fan ... for wanting better in the long run and that ain't Sam's m.o. whatsoever.

Everyone wants better, that's not in question. And if the right manager becomes available then we should try and go for him. But to just bin off Allardyce and then think managers are going to flock to us is ridiculous.

Silva may well have done well, but his record at Hull and now Watford haven't been hugely inspiring. Attack and no defence would have been an absolute disaster at the time for a team conceding at least 2 a game and relying on the much-maligned Niasse and Calvert-Lewin up front.

February 16, 2018, 05:22:09 PM
Reply #85
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AllyBlue14


Unsworth was manager when we played West Ham, we were 13th when Allardyce took over

Yeah, but we'd signed Allardyce before then, hadn't we? I'm not one of those that counts the West Ham win as one for Allardyce, but he was certainly at the club before the match.

February 16, 2018, 05:22:21 PM
Reply #86
Online

gizzblue


Everyone wants better, that's not in question. And if the right manager becomes available then we should try and go for him. But to just bin off Allardyce and then think managers are going to flock to us is ridiculous.

Silva may well have done well, but his record at Hull and now Watford haven't been hugely inspiring. Attack and no defence would have been an absolute disaster at the time for a team conceding at least 2 a game and relying on the much-maligned Niasse and Calvert-Lewin up front.
Still relying on Niasse now though no?...despite a 20+ million pound buy .

I honestly don't see Sam wanting better just his money ....if he was building something he wouldn't start by tearing down players publicly imho...or he hasn't learned anything in two decades of management as most people progress in their lines of work ...Sams still putting out alleged fires ...so is he really progressing even in his own career?.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 05:25:13 PM by gizzblue »

February 16, 2018, 05:24:10 PM
Reply #87
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Macca77


Yeah, but we'd signed Allardyce before then, hadn't we? I'm not one of those that counts the West Ham win as one for Allardyce, but he was certainly at the club before the match.

He was announced a few hours before the match

February 16, 2018, 05:26:02 PM
Reply #88
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AllyBlue14


Oh here we go again giving Allardyce praise for the West Ham game despite the rotund narcissist even admitting himself it was nothing to do with him and the fact he’d not taken a training season or picked the team or even signed a contract with the club.

Personally I prefer to give Unsworth credit for the Huddersfield result as Allardyce only had a day with the players prior to that and he didn’t even change the team Unsworth picked to destroy West Ham 3 days earlier. 

Who's said that? If you're saying it was me, then you can get off your high horse.

February 16, 2018, 05:32:08 PM
Reply #89
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AllyBlue14


He was announced a few hours before the match

So yeah, we were 17th when he joined. Which in my book is 'near the bottom'. Maybe if we'd have waited until after that match, the board may have thought differently. But we were in horrendous shape at the time, hence they went for Allardyce. Given the dearth of options at the time, I'm not sure who else they could've brought in that would've 'guaranteed' safety.