September 25, 2018, 04:47:46 PM

Author Topic: Top 6  (Read 2393 times)

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June 01, 2018, 02:14:42 AM
Reply #45
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blue slug


7th and decent cup runs playing good football and getting some high quality players in and getting rid of 4 or 5 of the deadwood and I’d be more than happy


June 01, 2018, 02:41:09 AM
Reply #46
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GLewis

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7th and decent cup runs playing good football and getting some high quality players in and getting rid of 4 or 5 of the deadwood and I’d be more than happy

Although re cup runs we either win it or I’m not bothered.

I mean, I’d rather not lose to someone awful, obviously, but equally we could draw city away first up in both competitions and not go beyond that.

But we’ve been to semis and a final and while there are memories there (amazingly I’ve seen loads of things re Liverpool having memories from their CL rub and suddenly that’s what football is about, as opposed to winning...) we need to win.

June 01, 2018, 03:19:57 AM
Reply #47
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brap2

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Although re cup runs we either win it or I’m not bothered.

I mean, I’d rather not lose to someone awful, obviously, but equally we could draw city away first up in both competitions and not go beyond that.

But we’ve been to semis and a final and while there are memories there (amazingly I’ve seen loads of things re Liverpool having memories from their CL rub and suddenly that’s what football is about, as opposed to winning...) we need to win.

I *largely* agree, especially re: the reds suddenly getting beat abroad is what it’s all about, but I have to admit I love a cup run. Goodison bouncing in the night time...you always get plenty of songs around a cup run. Maybe because I didn’t have a season ticket until 17/18 so a lot of my games were one offs when my brothers were home. Tended to be cup games and great atmospheres.

The upsetting thing is that being honest in the modern era, something like 3 out of all cups have been won by teams outside the ‘big 6’  A similar ratio in the years before then too but including us. There was a great twitter thread on it but I can’t find it damnit.

So - chances of winning a cup are almost unrealistic even? And even if you do win a cup - the only things that matter in the modern game are leagues and CL, anything else is worthless in terms of progress even if you do do win it.

Wouldn’t feel worthless, and as i day I do love a cup run, but it doesn’t seem realistic, or even all that valid, to say - we have to win something.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.


June 01, 2018, 03:22:50 AM
Reply #48
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GLewis

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I *largely* agree, especially re: the reds suddenly getting beat abroad is what it’s all about, but I have to admit I love a cup run. Goodison bouncing in the night time...you always get plenty of songs around a cup run. Maybe because I didn’t have a season ticket until 17/18 so a lot of my games were one offs when my brothers were home. Tended to be cup games and great atmospheres.

The upsetting thing is that being honest in the modern era, something like 3 out of all cups have been won by teams outside the ‘big 6’  A similar ratio in the years before then too but including us. There was a great twitter thread on it but I can’t find it damnit.

So - chances of winning a cup are almost unrealistic even? And even if you do win a cup - the only things that matter in the modern game are leagues and CL, anything else is worthless in terms of progress even if you do do win it.

Wouldn’t feel worthless, and as insaybid love a cup run, but it doesn’t seem realistic, or even all that valid, to say - we have to win something.

Oh yeah the games are great and part of that is because you think you might win the whole thing.

Just mean I’d be judging progress on league stuff as cups are unpredictable.

June 01, 2018, 05:23:27 AM
Reply #49
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MrWhite


Will never happen again. They were 5000/1 and they should have been 5,000,000/1. Was an absolute miracle

I'll grant you it was highly unlikely. I don't think they should have been 5,000,000/1 since they did actually win it? For some reason bookies don't seem to be offering those kind of odds again on anyone before the season starts..
And never? That's a very very long time.. It's happened twice in 26 years. The odds of it happening in any given season are definitely long, but the odds of it ever happening again in the rest of time to come? Undoubtedly a lot more probable than 'never'.

At the start of last season if you'd told me Allardyce would manage our club I'd have told you it would never happen. I would have been wrong.. after the last few years I'm not sure 'never' is applicable to anything any more!

June 01, 2018, 05:30:08 AM
Reply #50
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Gash

Global Moderator
It's happened twice in 26 years.

Who's the other one, you can't mean Blackburn? They were the original bank rolled Premier League club and finished runner up the year before.


June 01, 2018, 05:49:29 AM
Reply #51
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brap2

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I think from now on breaking the top 6 will be like what it was the break the top 4 say 10-15 years ago.

They are the incumbents, there may be some movement within the 6 but they look light years ahead at the moment tbh.

Not beyond the realm of possibility you get a freak, all the more important we get up and around those areas and be consistently comfortable - if there ever is some seismic movement and someone falls apart (not THAT rare tbh) we can aim to close the gap so much we might pop in and benefit from the money and in a perfect world, European football.

Will mean we need to get to 60 points a year I guess. Within touching distance and ready to go into overdrive if it looks like someone wobbles enough.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

June 01, 2018, 06:06:08 AM
Reply #52
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The Blue 3/4 of Liverpool


Id take 7th/8th and us playing our BEST team in EACH and EVERY cup game - going all out!

Like Koemans reign, a lot will depend on the opening fixtures we are dealt in 2 weeks, and hopefully this Watford poaching whilst under contract shadow is cleared up quickly without a points deduction surely. You can just see our typical luck, after all our optimism, getting a 3 points deduction and our opening fixtures being City away, United, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and then Watford away :)


June 01, 2018, 06:56:03 AM
Reply #53
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MrWhite


Who's the other one, you can't mean Blackburn? They were the original bank rolled Premier League club and finished runner up the year before.

Clearly I do mean Blackburn..

Bank rolling aspect is irrelevant, the quality in the league was much lower then. While Leicester didn’t spend money like the top clubs, they still spent money on a handful of key players over a few years in amounts that are huge to to likes of us normal people. Everyone has just become so used to discussions about tens of millions that six or seven digit values are considered nothing.

OK, Blackburn was less of a surprise than Leicester, but go back a couple of seasons before and it would have seemed unlikely. Two seasons after and the key player(s) have moved on for big money.. and Blackburn fell back into the hole. What happens to Leicester now Mahrez is on his way?
Plenty of valid things to compare, and the point was about how often one time winners happen, not how far back they came from and how quickly they got there. Handful of key players and a manager who put it all together in a one time deal that looks out of place compared to most winners.

As to bankrolling, buying the right player at the right time is what it’s all about. The idea that using money is cheating is a bit crazy really, especially considering our own history. Did United not “bankroll” Cantona? Or did they make a great buy at the right time?
Pissing your money up the wall (Leeds) or buying half the worlds young players to control the market (Chelsea) is different (insane/cheating respectively) but buying players who then show they are worth the money and then some? Good planning and management. Which is ultimately what won both Blackburn and Leicester their titles.

June 01, 2018, 12:41:41 PM
Reply #54
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GLewis

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Clearly I do mean Blackburn..

Bank rolling aspect is irrelevant, the quality in the league was much lower then. While Leicester didn’t spend money like the top clubs, they still spent money on a handful of key players over a few years in amounts that are huge to to likes of us normal people. Everyone has just become so used to discussions about tens of millions that six or seven digit values are considered nothing.

OK, Blackburn was less of a surprise than Leicester, but go back a couple of seasons before and it would have seemed unlikely. Two seasons after and the key player(s) have moved on for big money.. and Blackburn fell back into the hole. What happens to Leicester now Mahrez is on his way?
Plenty of valid things to compare, and the point was about how often one time winners happen, not how far back they came from and how quickly they got there. Handful of key players and a manager who put it all together in a one time deal that looks out of place compared to most winners.

As to bankrolling, buying the right player at the right time is what it’s all about. The idea that using money is cheating is a bit crazy really, especially considering our own history. Did United not “bankroll” Cantona? Or did they make a great buy at the right time?
Pissing your money up the wall (Leeds) or buying half the worlds young players to control the market (Chelsea) is different (insane/cheating respectively) but buying players who then show they are worth the money and then some? Good planning and management. Which is ultimately what won both Blackburn and Leicester their titles.

Blackburn spent huge amounts of money.

They went rubbish because they didn’t get a proper manager after Dalglish left and then didn’t spend anywhere near the same kind of money.

They finished 4th in their first season in the PL, then 2nd, then won it so hardly a from nowhere shock.

There is only Leicester that doesn’t correlate to money that has won the league since the PL started.

Going back, you could probably include Leeds’ last win as they’d not long been promoted, before that Forest.

June 01, 2018, 12:46:57 PM
Reply #55
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GLewis

NSNO Subscriber
I think from now on breaking the top 6 will be like what it was the break the top 4 say 10-15 years ago.

They are the incumbents, there may be some movement within the 6 but they look light years ahead at the moment tbh.

Not beyond the realm of possibility you get a freak, all the more important we get up and around those areas and be consistently comfortable - if there ever is some seismic movement and someone falls apart (not THAT rare tbh) we can aim to close the gap so much we might pop in and benefit from the money and in a perfect world, European football.

Will mean we need to get to 60 points a year I guess. Within touching distance and ready to go into overdrive if it looks like someone wobbles enough.

It’s not just their quality now it’s their income which is a big gap to everyone else. They’ll consistently be able to take good players and consistently replace them if they leave.

We’re going to have to get 65+ regularly as they’ll very rarely lose to the dross, so even if they beat each other it’s not going to drop them down too much.

Mad to think (now) that Utd and Arsenal we’re winning the league with top sides in 98 and 99 but got less than 80 points.

June 01, 2018, 01:30:45 PM
Reply #56
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Confucius

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I think we should be aiming for top 6. If we want to roll with the big boys we have to beat the big boys. Otherwise what’s the point. All this talk of progression is crap. Sports teams the world over beat the odds time and time again. If we want to be like Tottenham we have to climb the table. Arsenal and Chelsea and possibly Spurs are all catchable if we do this season correctly.
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June 01, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
Reply #57
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Ramjam


Get the feeling that Abramovic is getting a bit sick throwing huge amounts of money in.
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June 01, 2018, 02:32:37 PM
Reply #58
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Cereal Killer


Get the feeling that Abramovic is getting a bit sick throwing huge amounts of money in.

He's just having a strop because he didn't get a visa

June 01, 2018, 03:26:54 PM
Reply #59
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brap2

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Taps been turned off at Chelsea for a while imo. Transfer strategy has been very different last few years.

He’s not a mug either, whatever’s happening with Russia and England I get the feeling he’s ahead of it, despite this visa stuff.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.