July 18, 2018, 11:55:10 PM

Author Topic: Team Spirit - Is it any good/problematic at Everton?  (Read 707 times)

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July 09, 2018, 04:13:01 AM
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Thomas


I watched a couple of Youtube videos on the official Everton and Toffee TV Channels last week.

Both got me thinking about team spirit. If you watch Everton players return for the first day of pre-season training at Finch Farm, even players who seem surplus to requirements seem happy and able to gel with their teammates after a time away. (Mirallas/Williams). So from that video, things seem ok. Although maybe some of those players are just aware they are on great contracts and can sit in the stands being well paid for it.

However if you take the pic from Koeman's time of a dressing room full of players with their heads down looking at their phones, you can see a team that retreats within itself. We had too many characters like that last year also who once we went a goal behind or got into difficult positions, they did not stand up and be counted and instead protected themselves by being the grey man or playing awfully. (Williams)
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-koeman-phones-communication-instagram-12302063




Then I watched Derek Mountfield on Toffee TV a couple of days ago talking about Howard Kendall taking the team for Fish and Chips and a few Beers with his other coaches playing good cop/bad cop whenever a player or the group needed an arm around their shoulder/ What Degs said reminded me of Claudio Ranieri at Leicester/Southgate at England/Otto Rehagel (Greece), because if you can foster a togetherness and great team spirit you can make an average/decent team into a very good one. In Ranieri's case it was Pizza with the players and a one game at a time relaxed style/attitude. Southgate generally just seems to have got the players bonding and removed the inter-club rivalry that previously went on between players in the national team.

As Degs said doing this now in the age of camera phones, social media and where players cannot break wind without being criticized for it, is pretty difficult. They have to stay in their houses on their own frequently. But I really hope Marco Silva can make the players gel off the pitch as well as on it because for me its fundamental to success in competitive sport.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 04:17:44 AM by Thomas »


July 09, 2018, 04:18:57 AM
Reply #1
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Simon Paul

Administrator
Oh good. Another link to toffee TV.

On topic though it's absolutely impossible to say what the team spirit is like under a new manager with half the squad away.

Doubt most of the players will have even had a one to one with the manager yet, let alone met the coaching staff for long enough to form an opinion

July 09, 2018, 04:22:50 AM
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Bluedylan


Also, ex footie players sometimes talk a lot of shit about 'their day' and 'what's gone wrong with the game?', but don't really appreciate the changes in the game or in society. It can all get a bit man-down-the-pub.

Amazing to listen to their stories and anecdotes and hear about our great players and teams, but not sure their insight into the current game is always great.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.


July 09, 2018, 04:26:07 AM
Reply #3
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Thomas


Oh good. Another link to toffee TV.

On topic though it's absolutely impossible to say what the team spirit is like under a new manager with half the squad away.

Doubt most of the players will have even had a one to one with the manager yet, let alone met the coaching staff for long enough to form an opinion
I have nothing to do with that youtube channel. Zilch. I watch it a lot. I think the lads do a decent job. The end.

Letting that slide, my point was simply we have seen Everton teams play far too much like individuals of recent times and in difficult situations go into hiding.  I hope the new manager can solve that.

July 09, 2018, 04:28:41 AM
Reply #4
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Thomas


Also, ex footie players sometimes talk a lot of shit about 'their day' and 'what's gone wrong with the game?', but don't really appreciate the changes in the game or in society. It can all get a bit man-down-the-pub.

Amazing to listen to their stories and anecdotes and hear about our great players and teams, but not sure their insight into the current game is always great.

Perhaps, but Fish and Chips and Beers won us the championship right? When Souness banned the same things at Liverpool they started doing shit. The team ethic is important and in the modern game where footballers (according to Jamie Carragher) dont spend a lot of time/feel close with other footballers they play with, that can be a problem. Arugably Leicester had a collective bond that pushed them above other teams for that season they won the league.

July 09, 2018, 04:30:08 AM
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Simon Paul

Administrator
I have nothing to do with that youtube channel. Zilch. I watch it a lot. I think the lads do a decent job. The end.

Letting that slide, my point was simply we have seen Everton teams play far too much like individuals of recent times and in difficult situations go into hiding.  I hope the new manager can solve that.
No. I know you don't. I mentioned that it was another link to it, as with every topic you start. "The end."

You asked a question. I said there was no way of knowing yet. "The end."


July 09, 2018, 04:33:58 AM
Reply #6
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Thomas


No. I know you don't. I mentioned that it was another link to it, as with every topic you start. "The end."

You asked a question. I said there was no way of knowing yet. "The end."

I'm not falling into another argument with you that you're obviously trying to deliberately set up. Completely no idea why you're taking particular exception to two words I said.

Go through my posts. 'Every' post has a link to that channel in it? Thats simply untrue.

Anyway, I'm not going to let you being sarcastic derail this topic.

July 09, 2018, 04:36:18 AM
Reply #7
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Simon Paul

Administrator
I'm not falling into another argument with you that you're obviously trying to deliberately set up. Completely no idea why you're taking particular exception to two words I said.

Go through my posts. 'Every' post has a link to that channel in it? Thats simply untrue.

Anyway, I'm not going to let you being sarcastic derail this topic.
Every topic you start does, yes.

"The end"

July 09, 2018, 04:59:00 AM
Reply #8
Online

Grand Master C


Yeah, to me personally it is important. I want to support a team,  not individuals. From a performance point of view it is more difficult to beat a team than a group of individuals and I think that is something we have maybe missed since Moyes or early Martinez, but as they say a picture paints a thousand words....

July 09, 2018, 05:04:25 AM
Reply #9
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Thomas


Also, ex footie players sometimes talk a lot of shit about 'their day' and 'what's gone wrong with the game?', but don't really appreciate the changes in the game or in society. It can all get a bit man-down-the-pub.

Amazing to listen to their stories and anecdotes and hear about our great players and teams, but not sure their insight into the current game is always great.

For me it still has a relevance to the modern day.
Fundamentally however the basic philosophy to what Degs was saying i think is correct. Look at Gareth Southgate at England at the moment, its obvious the lads in that squad play for each other as much as the manager, and that comes from establishing certain ways of developing a good team spirit and being close personally and professionally as professional footballers.

At Everton we can sometimes fall out of love with players who want to do it all alone or are acting like bad apples within the group. (Bolasie/McGeady/Schenderlin) Other times great players didn't stay for long because their team mates hardly congratulated them on scoring goals. (Kanchleskis, if you believe Dave Prentice in the 'Big Blue Book')
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 05:06:05 AM by Thomas »

July 09, 2018, 05:10:18 AM
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Goaljira

NSNO Subscriber
This is one of the reasons we need to get the squad size down.  Its next to impossible to build a togetherness in such a large group when then majority won't be taking part of a weekend. 

Its too easy in large groups to end up with lots of sub-groups, and it only takes a couple in one group to become disgruntled and become vocal about it to cause issues with other groups then taking sides.
Cordiali saluti, motherfuckers.

July 09, 2018, 05:16:47 AM
Reply #11
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Thomas


This is one of the reasons we need to get the squad size down.  Its next to impossible to build a togetherness in such a large group when then majority won't be taking part of a weekend. 

Its too easy in large groups to end up with lots of sub-groups, and it only takes a couple in one group to become disgruntled and become vocal about it to cause issues with other groups then taking sides.

Excellent point. When Leicester won the league Ranieri (bizarrely, for him anyway, tinker man etc) used the least players in the league that season.

What you say is also apparent in the video i posted from Everton's Youtube channel on the first day back at pre-season. Too many sub groups.

Get the squad size down, then get everybody gelling together.

July 09, 2018, 05:24:39 AM
Reply #12
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Mayor Farnum


I think good team spirit stands out a mile. Last season it was definitely missing; but team spirit is hard to maintain in a losing side because those on the fringes will always assume that they could be doing better.
Also a big disparity between the contracts of the newer players can't help.
Winning teams will always point to their good team spirit and, by and large, losing teams will always claim there is nothing wrong with their team spirit either; but they are probably just confusing contentment at a great life with a bond that will make a difference where it counts on the pitch.

July 09, 2018, 05:30:38 AM
Reply #13
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Thomas


I think good team spirit stands out a mile. Last season it was definitely missing; but team spirit is hard to maintain in a losing side because those on the fringes will always assume that they could be doing better.
Also a big disparity between the contracts of the newer players can't help.
Winning teams will always point to their good team spirit and, by and large, losing teams will always claim there is nothing wrong with their team spirit either; but they are probably just confusing contentment at a great life with a bond that will make a difference where it counts on the pitch.

(Just playing devils advocate)

Would you say a team that has an unexpectedly good season, who then sees its players get big wage rises, suffers from a declining team spirit?

Other teams whether doing good or bad seem to have a strong work and social ethic/connection that binds them together. Burnley being the most excellent/current example. To paraphrase a comedian doing impressions of their manager, if Sean Dyche told them to all eat nails they'd probably do it as a collective.

Even teams playing badly at least in the league seemed to to gel together as a unit. Everton 1995 FA Cup winning team being a decent example.

Its a smaller aspect of our club but something that we have lacked as has been said since Moyes and it makes a huge difference.

July 09, 2018, 05:32:25 AM
Reply #14
Online

Bally

Administrator
I watched a couple of Youtube videos on the official Everton and Toffee TV Channels last week.

Both got me thinking about team spirit. If you watch Everton players return for the first day of pre-season training at Finch Farm, even players who seem surplus to requirements seem happy and able to gel with their teammates after a time away. (Mirallas/Williams). So from that video, things seem ok. Although maybe some of those players are just aware they are on great contracts and can sit in the stands being well paid for it.

However if you take the pic from Koeman's time of a dressing room full of players with their heads down looking at their phones, you can see a team that retreats within itself. We had too many characters like that last year also who once we went a goal behind or got into difficult positions, they did not stand up and be counted and instead protected themselves by being the grey man or playing awfully. (Williams)
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-koeman-phones-communication-instagram-12302063




Then I watched Derek Mountfield on Toffee TV a couple of days ago talking about Howard Kendall taking the team for Fish and Chips and a few Beers with his other coaches playing good cop/bad cop whenever a player or the group needed an arm around their shoulder/ What Degs said reminded me of Claudio Ranieri at Leicester/Southgate at England/Otto Rehagel (Greece), because if you can foster a togetherness and great team spirit you can make an average/decent team into a very good one. In Ranieri's case it was Pizza with the players and a one game at a time relaxed style/attitude. Southgate generally just seems to have got the players bonding and removed the inter-club rivalry that previously went on between players in the national team.

As Degs said doing this now in the age of camera phones, social media and where players cannot break wind without being criticized for it, is pretty difficult. They have to stay in their houses on their own frequently. But I really hope Marco Silva can make the players gel off the pitch as well as on it because for me its fundamental to success in competitive sport.
Great more toffee TV links

I reckon we won't know anything about team spirit yet, the lads seeing each other after a couple of weeks, we're all gonna see them greeting each other fondly, they are team mates after all.
The spirit in the club has been decimated, the connection to the club backroom staff and the fans has been decimated, turned over anally fisted with no lube and decimated again, we then got lumbered with fucking Sam (Holly Jolly boy/gravy swilling /cunt of Monte Bisto) fucking Allardyce, who pissed in the metaphorical face of the club.

Any team spirit will have to be built from the ground up, there is fuck all there, I'm hoping it was dormant and will rise from the ashes of the fucking skid mark of the past two appointments (Unsworth not included) and we get off to a flyer. I anticipate it will take longer than that though.


Edit:- read the thread first bally you fuckin tit.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 05:33:49 AM by Bally »
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