December 17, 2018, 08:15:37 AM

Author Topic: Goodison for Gomes?  (Read 31931 times)

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October 22, 2018, 10:49:14 PM
Reply #255
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gizzblue


Whilst i am happy to bang the Gomes drum (albeit with the caveats you and @brap2 have raised), i cannot agree enough with this statement.

There woulyd have been very loud groans if Davies had have played the exact same game.

It's a throw away statement though in reality ....
Davies has had a season and a bit v Gomes one game and already they seem on a par. ...I really hope Gomes can push on and Davies can learn lots from him too .
Born not made a blue .


October 22, 2018, 10:53:10 PM
Reply #256
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Martip


I thought gomes looked better than Davies has as he moved the ball well and looked much more composed.

He did look a tad sluggish at times so hoping he 'll find another 5-10% with fitness. Overall a good start though

October 22, 2018, 11:07:39 PM
Reply #257
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TheRam

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I like Davies but he can be very erratic in his passing.

Gomes was very composed and I hardly recall him losing possession.

Yeah he was a bit too conservative at times, but Im putting that down to bedding himself into the game.

Times in that second half where he was dictating the game with his use of the ball.

In terms of passing the ball, it was a level above what Davies has given us in that role so far.


October 22, 2018, 11:53:25 PM
Reply #258
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Nicco


Sergio Busquets who is considered to be a very strong passer has, in his 406 games for Barcelona and Spain, been registered for 27 assists, 0,7 key passes in average and 0,1 through balls in average.

But I dont think anybody would say that hus influence on games is poor to non-existent even if the stats regarding his passing suggest otherwise.

Iniesta has in 362 games 72 assists, 1,3 key passes and 0,5 through balls. Better but I always thought his stats were of the chart like...



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October 22, 2018, 11:55:20 PM
Reply #259
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GLewis

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As @Bluedylan mentioned, his weight of pass (seemingly with both feet) is a big upgrade on other options.

Im assuming he could end up playing a similar role as Dembele does for Spurs.

As he can use both feet, is big (and therefore with time in PL should develop shielding skills etc) and also can move forward with the ball I think wed see the benefit over a number of games of keeping a bit more momentum in moves.

October 23, 2018, 12:03:48 AM
Reply #260
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Bob Sacamano

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I thought he was sound. I dont mind Davies at all but Id play this guy ahead of him. Middle of the pitch is a tough one, Davies should be blooded in properly because its a bit weird the amount of pressure on him.

I remember Gerrard being a headless chicken throwing in about 8 two-footers with studs up a game when he was late teens. So let this guy lay down some heavy minutes and let Davies influence the games that Silva can accommodate an inexperienced youngster in.


October 23, 2018, 12:04:11 AM
Reply #261
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brap2

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As @Bluedylan mentioned, his weight of pass (seemingly with both feet) is a big upgrade on other options.

Im assuming he could end up playing a similar role as Dembele does for Spurs.

As he can use both feet, is big (and therefore with time in PL should develop shielding skills etc) and also can move forward with the ball I think wed see the benefit over a number of games of keeping a bit more momentum in moves.

This weight of pass thing feels a bit iffy to me. Maybe just a nuance of the game Im dismissing as fluff tho.

The biggest and best upgrades he is offering over each is that hes willing to get on the ball and that he is physically powerful enough to dribble past people and create separation, which neither Davies or Gana can.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

October 23, 2018, 12:18:06 AM
Reply #262
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GLewis

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This weight of pass thing feels a bit iffy to me. Maybe just a nuance of the game Im dismissing as fluff tho.

The biggest and best upgrades he is offering over each is that hes willing to get on the ball and that he is physically powerful enough to dribble past people and create separation, which neither Davies or Gana can.

I just think that any player can kick it from the middle of the pitch to the wing etc but unless youve got the force in the pass it can be easier to read and make a decision whether to intercept, stay back etc.

If were to continue to use the wings a lot well need to be able to get the ball from one side of the pitch to the other quickly to exploit the space there.

October 23, 2018, 12:24:42 AM
Reply #263
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brap2

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I just think that any player can kick it from the middle of the pitch to the wing etc but unless you’ve got the force in the pass it can be easier to read and make a decision whether to intercept, stay back etc.

If we’re to continue to use the wings a lot we’ll need to be able to get the ball from one side of the pitch to the other quickly to exploit the space there.

Hm will keep my eyes open.

Not sure who I am to talk as I have a long standing grudge against jagielka because I think he plays simple passes either to players bad foot, into a player who is clearly about to get pressed, or right underneath peoples feet so they have no chance of receiving it properly. Not sure what you’d call that.

Weight of pass maybe!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 12:37:03 AM by brap2 »
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

October 23, 2018, 12:25:57 AM
Reply #264
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MmmblueBernard


Clearly out best midfielder.

Can see that after only 3/4 of a game with practically zero proper match experience for months.

Could prove to be out most astute signing in what is proving to be our best window in years.
Farming Karma like the Dalai Llama

October 23, 2018, 02:00:38 AM
Reply #265
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formerKHL


I dont know how some of you people can even start to judge a player over only 3/4 of a game....after hes been out injured for 6 months....playing in a new team, new country, new league with new team mates...and new team ethos.....geniuses.....

What I look for in a player is firstly what he does without the ball......and his positional sense and work ethic was very good..very rarely if at all was he out of position....his presence in the midfield was massive.....maybe just maybe thats why palaces midfielders were so non existent?....

Secondly a good player always seems to have lots of time and space when they have the ball....he did this very well...created space for himself and had time on the ball...that wasnt about palace midfielders not pressing him but more the fact he made time for himself..like good players do.....ok he got caught a couple of times in the second half as he tired......only expected...I was more surprised he lasted as long as he did.....

Stats dont cover these 2 key elements of what make a good player....

Bearing in mind this is what he did without the ball.....

On this showing for me he could be the best midfielder weve had since arteta.....

October 23, 2018, 02:15:50 AM
Reply #266
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brap2

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Did play a bit more like a six actually didnt he. Especially second half.

Well Ill take him over Schneiderlin anyway, and think he looks quite promising.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

October 23, 2018, 02:25:52 AM
Reply #267
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Lxxx


I think with Gomes the potential is greater than weve seen so far which lends itself to a bit of bias about how well he actually played.

Hes tall and has a rangy stride so you can imagine him when fully fit striding forward 20-30 yards with the ball, which is an asset no-one else in the squad has.

Hes also got a bigger frame, two footed and a sexy name. The old adage of you always kick your own dog harder than you kick someone elses rings true here. Hell get away with more than Davies simply because hes not called Davies and hes not ours.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 02:29:02 AM by Lxxx »

October 23, 2018, 02:37:21 AM
Reply #268
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Bluedylan


This weight of pass thing feels a bit iffy to me. Maybe just a nuance of the game I’m dismissing as fluff tho.

The biggest and best upgrades he is offering over each is that he’s willing to get on the ball and that he is physically powerful enough to dribble past people and create separation, which neither Davies or Gana can.

You must've played yourself a bit? Surely you can understand the difference between someone who has a good weight of pass or not? It's appreciation of space, and knowing whether to zip it into feet, or to stroke it into someone's path.
Jeff: That's not the way to win.
Kathie: Is there a way to win?
Jeff: There's a way to lose more slowly.

October 23, 2018, 03:01:24 AM
Reply #269
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brap2

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You must've played yourself a bit? Surely you can understand the difference between someone who has a good weight of pass or not? It's appreciation of space, and knowing whether to zip it into feet, or to stroke it into someone's path.

Yeah i get it I just mean, like how robust is it as an observation?

Like - I like how Calvert-Lewis runs, I think he looks smooth in his movements and can accelerate like a sprinter, but none of that is very robust as an observation about why hes a good player.

I like how Tosun scores different sorts of strikes, but its not like a real thing is it. Part of it will be personal bias, part of it will be aesthetics, part of it will be confirmation bias. Put a number on how weighty the pass was out of weightyness and tell me why its insightful and I could buy into it, other wise it just feels like nice stylistic fluff.

Not saying its not important, just yeah, might not be very tangible.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.