December 15, 2018, 03:00:44 PM

Poll

Player needed back the most

Coleman
30 (60%)
Mina
6 (12%)
Gomes
10 (20%)
McCarthy
4 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 50

Author Topic: Which player we need back the most  (Read 2225 times)

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October 10, 2018, 07:26:19 PM
Reply #30
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Mouse


Definitely Coleman, gives us more both defensively and going forward. Should make Walcott's life easier as well. Then it would be Gomes because he could be the missing link and I'm looking forward to seeing if he can reproduce his Valencia form (plus he's a handsome bastard).

Keane and Zouma are doing well enough that there really is no rush for Mina, although I'm allowing myself to dream that he will be banging them in from corners (how many did we have against Leicester?).

Been so long that I'm not sure what McCarthy can bring to the current midfield.


October 10, 2018, 07:44:28 PM
Reply #31
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hannu


People saying Coleman, id argue Kennys done a better job this season.

kenny is no where near good enough atm, he gets caught out far too oftern in defence and as he is a defender thats kind of important

October 12, 2018, 12:07:59 AM
Reply #32
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brap2

NSNO Subscriber
Coleman is better than Kenny, but Coleman is 30 with a double broken leg not far in the past and a history of niggles since.

We should try and replace Coleman in the summer, anyone denying it is lying to themselves.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.


October 12, 2018, 12:18:11 AM
Reply #33
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Gash

Global Moderator
Coleman is better than Kenny, but Coleman is 30 with a double broken leg not far in the past and a history of niggles since.

We should try and replace Coleman in the summer, anyone denying it is lying to themselves.

Pretty much every player coming back from a serious injury suffers niggles after it, regardless of age.

Sometimes think if you had your way we'd have a policy too sell everyone over 25 and have a bunch of naive kids running around the park. 30's not old for a footballer in this day and age.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 12:30:44 AM by Gash »

October 12, 2018, 12:33:48 AM
Reply #34
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brap2

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Pretty much every player coming back from a serious injury suffers niggles after it, regardless of age.

Sometimes think if you had your way we'd have a policy too sell everyone over 25 and have a bunch of naive kids running around the park. 30's not old in this day and age.

No I just want us to avoid the mistakes of the past, which left us in situations like Jags, Distin, Howard, Baines, even Williams....relying on players not to drop off a physical ledge in the most physically demanding league in the world.

Iím not saying get him out the side immediately, im saying try and replace him, make some moves on players and start seeing if we can bring someone in who would be a good replacement if they make a case for it on the pitch.

Why must we leave everything until itís desperate? Especially in positions weíve relied on for 10 years?

When did we last sign a decent right back to give him competition? Is that normal? Is that sensible? Itís absolutely fine to suddenly have to rely on an inexperienced U23 player we promote, or shuttle some shite like Martina into the gap like we had to do last year?

Honestly if you think no itís OK Coleman will (probably) be fine, then you are taking a gamble you donít need to take with the future of the side.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

October 12, 2018, 12:52:50 AM
Reply #35
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Gash

Global Moderator
No I just want us to avoid the mistakes of the past, which left us in situations like Jags, Distin, Howard, Baines, even Williams....relying on players not to drop off a physical ledge in the most physically demanding league in the world.

Iím not saying get him out the side immediately, im saying try and replace him, make some moves on players and start seeing if we can bring someone in who would be a good replacement if they make a case for it on the pitch.

Why must we leave everything until itís desperate? Especially in positions weíve relied on for 10 years?

When did we last sign a decent right back to give him competition? Is that normal? Is that sensible? Itís absolutely fine to suddenly have to rely on an inexperienced U23 player we promote, or shuttle some shite like Martina into the gap like we had to do last year?

Honestly if you think no itís OK Coleman will (probably) be fine, then you are taking a gamble you donít need to take with the future of the side.

How many positions throughout the squad do we have two quality players for? I'm not disagreeing with finding someone to eventually replace him in a couple of years but at 30 and as fit as he's kept himself over the years he'll do at least another two years barring another serious injury but that could happen to anyone regardless of age. Coleman's probably one of the fittest most disciplined players in the league.

I don't really see the relevance of Jags, Distin, Howard and Baines etc, if anything using them backs up what I'm saying. Yes we held on too long in the end but when they were 30-32 they were still playing at the top level of their abilities, and in Distin's case we didn't even buy him until he was nearly 32 and he turned out to be a very good signing bar his last year or so by which time he was about 37.

You're basically saying that every player of 29-30 should be replaced which would just be daft, especially if they're still playing at the top of their game. You've got a right thing about 29-30 year old players being over the hill and needing sold, there's umpteen examples of players who've looked after themselves playing well into their 30's at the very top.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 12:54:26 AM by Gash »


October 12, 2018, 01:06:33 AM
Reply #36
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Escla

NSNO Subscriber
Think Man City signed Frank Lampard when he was 35, put a decent shift in for them, wasnít Terry playing for Chelsea at 36 ?

October 12, 2018, 01:20:26 AM
Reply #37
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brap2

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How many positions throughout the squad do we have two quality players for? I'm not disagreeing with finding someone to eventually replace him in a couple of years but at 30 and as fit as he's kept himself over the years he'll do at least another two years barring another serious injury but that could happen to anyone regardless of age. Coleman's probably one of the fittest most disciplined players in the league.

I don't really see the relevance of Jags, Distin, Howard and Baines etc, if anything using them backs up what I'm saying. Yes we held on too long in the end but when they were 30-32 they were still playing at the top level of their abilities, and in Distin's case we didn't even buy him until he was nearly 32 and he turned out to be a very good signing bar his last year or so by which time he was about 37.

You're basically saying that every player of 29-30 should be replaced which would just be daft, especially if they're still playing at the top of their game. You've got a right thing about 29-30 year old players being over the hill and needing sold, there's umpteen examples of players who've looked after themselves playing well into their 30's at the very top.

Every player getting into their 30ís we should be looking to replace yeah.

What youíre saying is heís doing ok and heís not going to fall apart immediately (although maybe) so leave it until we need to - that thinking is one of the reasons we havenít  moved forwards as a football club.

We are not going to achieve anything right now, so we should get talent that in 2-3 years time when we should ideally be in the right place to have a good enough side to achieve something, the players who will achieve it are 25-28 and ready to bang, not either 30+ and still trucking along or 24 and under and only just purchased.

@Escla good shouts mate yeah city and Chelsea we are exactly like them arenít we.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

October 12, 2018, 01:22:46 AM
Reply #38
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Escla

NSNO Subscriber
Brad, just saying players in their mid thirties can still play at the top level, thatís all  ???

October 12, 2018, 01:24:16 AM
Reply #39
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brap2

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Also there are shades between looking to replace - it takes a couple of iterations especially if you are everton to eventually get the right player to take over from someone like Coleman - and replace. Might take 2 windows, might take 3, but we should be trying.

Although if I was absolutely pressed on it and I was making the decision - is seamus coleman currently one of the top 5 right backs in the league?

Probably somewhere in between Ďwe donít know anymoreí or Ďnoí.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

October 12, 2018, 01:25:52 AM
Reply #40
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brap2

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Brad, just saying players in their mid thirties can still play at the top level, thatís all  ???

100% they can and picking up older or out of contract players that can still do a job is a very smart move, like we did with Barry for instance.

But if you are building and looking to achieve something in the future - itís not a great idea.

Not all players get better, but all players get worse.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

October 12, 2018, 01:28:12 AM
Reply #41
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Martip


Also there are shades between looking to replace - it takes a couple of iterations especially if you are everton to eventually get the right player to take over from someone like Coleman - and replace. Might take 2 windows, might take 3, but we should be trying.

Although if I was absolutely pressed on it and I was making the decision - is seamus coleman currently one of the top 5 right backs in the league?

Probably somewhere in between Ďwe donít know anymoreí or Ďnoí.
He's not been good so far this season but I can't write him off just yet....

October 12, 2018, 01:29:16 AM
Reply #42
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brap2

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He's not been good so far this season but I can't write him off just yet....

No Iíd hate to as well, I absolutely love that little bastard.

But if marcel isnít looking at replacements then heís not doing his job properly.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

October 12, 2018, 01:33:01 AM
Reply #43
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Gash

Global Moderator
Every player getting into their 30ís we should be looking to replace yeah.

No I wouldn't say that, not if they're still at their same level, which many still can do.

What youíre saying is heís doing ok and heís not going to fall apart immediately (although maybe) so leave it until we need to - that thinking is one of the reasons we havenít  moved forwards as a football club.

No I'm not saying I think "he's doing ok" I'm saying that bar another serious injury I think he can still play at a very high level, probably even a level that we'll be lucky to find someone equal to never mind better for at least another coupe if years. You're making it sound like it's unheard of to sustain that level into the early/mid 30's.

We are not going to achieve anything right now, so we should get talent that in 2-3 years time when we should ideally be in the right place to have a good enough side to achieve something, the players who will achieve it are 25-28 and ready to bang, not either 30+ and still trucking along or 24 and under and only just purchased.

We're not always going to be able to buy players "ready to bang" so have to get a mix of players. Buying young players to bring through and using the older experienced players to do it is how it works in most places. There's not a thing wrong with having players in the 30's or early 20's either. Again you're making out that 28 is when they've peaked and will only go down from there, which as you would say is "absolute wham" :)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 01:34:41 AM by Gash »

October 12, 2018, 01:37:07 AM
Reply #44
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D15TIN


No I’d hate to as well, I absolutely love that little bastard.

But if marcel isn’t looking at replacements then he’s not doing his job properly.
There was everton scouts watching a porto game recently I heard, meant to be looking at a RB there I think